What Makes a Kilt Welsh? Are there Welsh Clans?

[@jeebusyaweirdo3733]

Because my family line is so well preserved on my fathers side, I have been able to date our family all the way back to the Silures of Wales 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿

[@Captain101-x1o]

I’m a Welshman (With some Scottish ancestry) and from what I understand, the Welsh, like most Celts, liked bright coloured woven fabrics. These roughly resembled the Scottish tartans but didn’t have specific meaning and weren’t allocated to a specific clan or area. They were seen most often in traditional women’s dress and in blankets. Welsh men adopted trousers much the same as Scottish lowlanders did. The Kilt spread to the Scottish lowlands as they sought to reinforce their Celtic identity and naturally has spread to the other Celtic nations as they seek to do the same, but with slight cultural differences. The fact that Celtic tradition and identity is continuing to revive and evolve is a wonderful thing. Unlike Welsh women, the men have been in need of a decent National dress for hundreds of years and this adoption of the Kilt/Cilt is a great gift from our Celtic friends in the north.

[@demolama]

Family names are relatively new as well. Old welsh naming patterns used to be based off the first name of the father. So a John Morgan had a father whose first name was Morgan but a last name that might be different depending on the given name of his father. John Morgan's children would therefore have a surname of Jones. I still had family members using the old naming patterns well into the mid 19th century

[@Jürgen_von_Schumacher]

That kind of reminds me of the Viking naming style. Like if your father's name was Þórsteinn, then your last name would be Þórsteinsdóttir or Þórsteinsson depending on if you were the daughter or son. Of course they're different but yeah 🙂

[@lavender90827]

Hello, I am from Iraq. I love the Scottish people and their land. I love everything in their land. I love tartan so much. Everything in my house is tartan. My clothes are my things. Greetings to you. I hope to live with you on your land or be buried in it.

[@IosuamacaMhadaidh]

Tapadh leibh airson na faclan coibhneil agad.

[@karlr750]

The biggest problem with cilts is when spellcheckers try to autocorrect them.

[@michaelcandido2824]

i read your post as clits before rereading it.

[@garethhillary2302]

From Wales here, growing up in North Wales specifically. There’s not much attachment to family names, muuuuch more to local area and if you are into the history, much more to the old kingdoms such as Gwynedd, etc.

[@billmarq]

I, for one, am greatly pleased to see a new tradition coming into its own. My family tree goes back directly to Wales, with an earlier branch in Scotland. I think it is great that I can celebrate my Celtic heritage and that there is a Welsh tartan to celebrate my Welsh family name. I'll wear my cilt (kilt) in "Roberts of Wales" tartan proudly, not because ancient Welshmen wore them (they did not) but because a kilt is more suited to the male anatomy than trousers (pants as we say in the U.S.) and are so much more comfortable to wear. I suppose I need a Scottish kilt, too, just to keep everyone happy.

[@connortierney3638]

Can you do Cornish tartans?

[@smacwhinnie]

No, Welsh folk ware was much different. Welsh tartans, kilts, etc were concocted by the kilt hire industry

[@straycat1674]

I know this is unofficial but the tartan itself has kind of universally become a Celtic symbol, not just a Scottish one. So for those of you that think that because you have no Scottish blood or so little it may be insignificant compared to your Irish or welsh or whatever, blood. Where the kill probably. It honestly is becoming a Celtic symbol. I’m a Modern Celt and damn proud of it.

[@mound1921]

My father is half Scottish through his father, and half Welsh through his mother, so I appreciate the mixed Welsh-Scottish attires for those of us of mixed heritage that want to embrace both sides. My mothers side is mostly Irish so I like that in the Celtic culture sphere this is also represented in a way that combines it with Kilt and tartanry.

[@tacfoley4443]

You are right about the 'age' of the Welsh in Great Britain. They were there some 800 years before the Romans invaded in 44AD. The Romans would have heard the ancestor language of modern Welsh, P-Celtic. By comparison, the Scots are actually displaced Irish, who invaded the Western Isles and mainland of Caledonia, and took their name, the Scottii, and Celtic Q-Celtic language with them.

[@straycat1674]

OK, so I don’t know who is editing these, but so far your spot on. Keep up the good job!

[@ianm1894]

My surname is Welsh and I can say with relative confidence that I have traced the genealogy back to where my paternal line came from Wales to the future US... but it gets really vague there because that was 400 years ago. Online genealogy trees indicate a connection to a specific family in Wales, but I've yet to see any actual evidence for this, so I'm not confident in its accuracy. But there is something fitting about an vague, ancient connection to Wales. Also there is some more recent Welsh on my mother's side, just a few generations back. I picked up the Glyndwr tartan a few months ago.

[@skittles074]

What's your last name?

[@timeastwoodbagpiper]

I use a Menzies kilt as a Welsh National variation, off ebay, until I can afford a proper Lewis of Wales tartan. Interestingly all of Northern Europe used to wear belted cloaks that became the Great Kilt in the Scottish Highlands. The tribal system in Wales that was equivalent to the clans of the Scottish Highlands was dismantled by the Anglo-Norman London based government. Its only because the Highlanders survived as a culture into the 18th Century that they get their own unique national dress, but bring it on, Cilts for the Welsh. Like I said, I have mine, mostly second hand Highland wear. One day I hope to be able to buy new Welsh Cilt wear.

[@Inquisitor_Vex]

Nah, bro. We never had a clan system. We had a patronymic naming convention. So not Tom McJones but Tom, son of Jon, son of Steve the good, son of Jeff, etc.

[@timeastwoodbagpiper]

@@Inquisitor_Vex yes I know that, but I mean the traditional system of a number of families under a local Prince etc etc that got effectively abolished with the Norman nobles being forced upon Wales slowly but surely

[@Inquisitor_Vex]

@@timeastwoodbagpiper I don’t know what you mean then? I’ve never heard of a Welsh clan system.

[@jessedphillips]

I've got a Welsh family name and some Irish forbears as well. I feel fine adopting the "cilture" with a family tartan that's about 25 years old. It's a beautiful tradition that I'll make my own and pass on.

[@bernardprice20]

I'm half Scottish and half Welsh. So I wear a Welsh Cilt and a Scottish Kilt! Hannay being my Scottish tartan and Price a Welsh version. I admit it was only two years ago I realised there was a Welsh version. I'm happy to wear either. I do in celebration of my Celtic origins. Also, can I say the Welsh Tartan center do a quality product

[@bernardprice20]

@@angelapennock2639 I don't understand what you mean

[@16Bentham]

Puget Sound Welsh Association for those living in Washington State. I was born in the US, but my dad was born in Llanllwchaiarn, and my sister and I were brought up with a strong celtic identity.

[@patrickwines9551]

Fun one for y'all, Wines, think it was originally spelled with a V. Mail off DNA shows Welsh, Irish, Scottish, Norwegian, Russian. I have have some history on the Irish side, Norway/Russia came from Canadian relitives, but ran into a wall on Welsh end. Anyone hear that family name, or did Welsh have tradition of taking your job as a name?

[@skittles074]

No not in that sense, the English would primarily use this, your name may have changed over time or be an anglicized version.

[@Galastel]

Scotland has Kilts, Wales and Ireland went and got themselves Kilts, can't wait for England to get themselves Kilts. 🤣

[@BCSchmerker]

+USAKiltsOfficial *As I understand things, the Welsh Tartan Centre (Swansea, GBR) catalogues Tartans by county, much as is the practice in Eire.* Families are concentrated in counties. Who commissioned the Tartan for the Saint David Society?

[@billmarq]

I'm pretty sure the Wales Tartan Centres in Swansea lists their tartans by surname. I bought one in my mother's family name.

[@TheEggmaniac]

I love Welsh people and Welsh culture. However there is no tradition of Welsh kilts, tartan or clans in Wales. This is a completely manufactured idea. Welsh tartans and kilts were invented in the 1990s, and based on Scottish kilts and tartans. A tradition is something that is passed on from one generation to another. Twenty five years is not long enough for that to be so. People with same Welsh surnames, like Jones or Thomas are not necessarily related to each other. There arent any Welsh clans. There is a traditional Welsh female costume, which includes a tall black hat, gown and shawl. None of which are tartan. There is no authentic Welsh male equivalent. I dont care if people want to invent Welsh kilts and tartans, based on Scottish ones. Have fun and run with it. But its not an authentic Welsh tradition.

[@jessedphillips]

Maybe it will be!

[@Ysbaddaden]

I'm welsh and I don't believe we should have tartan as a national dress, that is part of Scotlands culture, imitation is the best form of flattery and all that but I doubt Scotland would be very happy with us stealing a part of their culture for our own. that being said, every tradition had to start somewhere. we've only officially had our national flag for like 50 years and that has become a major part of welsh identity and also pride for our country, so who's to say that this new tradition won't achieve the same thing. atm I think its only an American-welsh thing, I've not seen anyone in tartan/kilts in Wales as of yet so who knows if it'll take off here.

[@Inquisitor_Vex]

No traditional… yet. How long before we can say it’s a tradition? In my house, we do something more than 2 years running, it becomes tradition.

[@lukej.hughes7761]

The Welsh Singing culture is second to none...I would love to be a part of a Cymanfu Ganu

[@straycat1674]

So here’s my question. The Irish have the Brian Boru and everybody else pretty much has either the Prince Charlie or which ever one of the two they want. But is there a particular one that each of the Celtic nations tend to gravitate toward? Or are we looking at possibly having a different one for the other nations either individually or as a whole?

[@user-sk4ds1rg1z]

It's more common nowadays to see kilts at Rugby games and weddings so it's catching on a bit. We do have a national dress already, but it's very "costumey" so you almost never see it outside of schools or specific events.

[@evelynmyree5153]

what if you only have the "old naming pattern" not anything more recent?

[@Inquisitor_Vex]

Two years late but I’m curious what you meant?

[@danielmorgan7351]

The Welsh Morgans from Cardiff have had their tartan for over 200 years. MacKay Blue Ancient. Morgan MacKay alliance goes back several hundred years.

[@larrywave]

Are there Cornish/Breton tartans ?

[@larrywave]

And for manx

[@Espirivit]

Does the dirk hang off the sporran belt or the kilt belt?

[@billyFNbones]

Kilt belt

[@Espirivit]

@@billyFNbones thank you. Seen pics of both so that question was driving me nuts.

[@gonefishingtoday]

@@Espirivit A Dirk hanging off my sporran belt would drive me nuts...

[@distaff2935]

The Welsh have distinctive quilts.

[@Cloudnine222]

Yes 🙌

[@wmffgeorge1589]

We used to carry ouer father's names, such as 'ap dafydd', ap being a bit like mk (I belive). Cymry means somthing like an United people and so we tend to unite as a contry (mostly against the English). I supose back when, we used to identify with our Kingdom (when shiers were kingdoms), or that's one idea any way. I don't know much about forine 'Welsh sosietys', I am Welsh in a literal sence. So I just live in ouer langue, promote it were I can, and get enoyed at how many English people there are, and enoyed at the disrespect for ouer language and culture. Like any other serious nationalist. I do belive that there was a Welsh quier of Canada, I don't know if it still stands.

[@LandshipScorpios]

Wales boy here. I think it's hilarious my family who is "American before AMerica was" is actually... from Nova Scotia! Apparently all of Nova Scotia is just Welsh capital, lol.

[@deanward3445]

My great grandfather was Sylvan Adolph Davis son of Marquis Randolph Davis who was son of Elias Davis. That’s all I have of information.

[@matthewwalker5430]

Welsh Tartans go back WAY further than the 90s. I believe the current designs, specifically ascribed to Welsh family names, were first registered in the year 2000 but the textile industry in Wales goes way back to the Middle Ages. The earliest recognisable tartan design, from my understanding, was the "Bedfordshire Check" which is from some time in the 18th, maybe even 17th, Century and Welsh tartans were resurrected again in the 19th century, particularly by Lady Llanover with the Llanover Tartan. It is a pretty rich history. Also, I don't know about "Welsh men" but "Welsh Women" have a very obvious historical way of dressing and, if you look at old pictures of the Welsh women from the 19th century, many of them are dressed in Welsh Tartans

[@KeepEvery1Guessing]

Yes! I'm part of a group that accepts all Celtic cultures and traditions. We're called Americans.

[@gallowglass2630]

The welsh had clans,but as in ireland it ended so much earlier then scotland,it hasn't survived into modern times .

[@hunterharris4869]

Now I've got Cwm Rhondda and Myfanwy stuck in my head...

[@tacfoley4443]

'Llewlyn'? I'll let you figure out how to spell it correctly. Also, you meander between 'Welsh' and 'welsh' - the correct form is, of course, capitalised, as it is the name of the national people. My Welsh wife suggests that the use of gold in the metal is a reminder that Welsh gold is a popular metal in decorative jewellery, whereas gold does not figure so strongly in Scotland. And lastly, please try to say Mab-i-nog-eon. Thanks.

[@r1n8k]

woop woop

[@zoukatron]

I hate to come across as just being negative, but anyone thinking that wearing a kilt somehow represents Welsh tradition is deluded. Making a kimono decorated with the Red Dragon would be just as legitimate. The Scottish have their own history, we Welsh have our own. There is traditional Welsh dress, although that is basically restricted to women (but some interesting men's hats too, in particular), and traditional "English" dress essentially HAS become traditional Welsh dress.

[@colinp2238]

Is there a sporran with a sheep's head on, to reflect the Welsh National hobby?

[@billyFNbones]

Is this supposed to be a sheep fucking joke? Cause it's not funny.... I don't know if you know this, but jokes are supposed to be funny

[@rosemarielee7775]

If you want them,why not make kilts out of actual welsh flannel, rather than a pseudo scottish pattern?

[@nolongerlistless]

Hehehe😂 Americans will buy anything! English kilts next...

[@smacwhinnie]

No and no. Just trying to sell more kilts. That said, I'm fine with anyone of any background to wear Scottish attire

[@MikeyArthur-u8c]

I've seen the Scottish Arthur tartan and colors. I wonder if the Welsh colors for Arthur are the same?