USPSA and IDPA beef

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[@ShadetreeArmorer]

"IDPA was started by people who thought USPSA was too fast" - just roll credits after that.

[@Davinoadam]

I specifically bought a Staccato P to shoot both IDPA and USPSA with one gun. I enjoy both sports, and twice as many opportunities to shoot. The differences between the two are what keep them each relevant.

[@justindeus3899]

I started with IDPA but moving on to USPSA soon because the movement and stupid procedurals for tactical priority and dropping loaded mags are super annoying. But admittedly I wanted to get some movement and my reloads a bit better before jumping into USPSA.

[@M1911jln]

Hold on, let me go get my fishing vest before I listen to this.

[@paulh6101]

I'm gona go grab my skeet vest.

[@ES_Competitive]

Yeah, the vests look lame but it is actually a gamer technique for the quickest draw as possible from 3 o'clock concealment. That's why people do it.

[@jessegpresley]

Hold on, let me go get my cycling jersey before I listen to this.

[@steven1365]

Aka pedo vest

[@Porkchopexpress391]

That one was funny!.. well played

[@toddanderson3913]

I looked it up and JJ Racaza was the SSP champ in 2021. In fact, almost all of the IDPA national champions for the past 3+ years are USPSA super squad guys who only shot that one IDPA match for the year so they could dunk on all the vest-wearing old guys and rack up a guaranteed "national championship" win with the gun their sponsor was paying them to shoot. Kind of hard to argue for the relevance of IDPA when you realize that IDPA nats now just exists to pad the resumes of USPSA pro shooters.

[@rodralig]

nicely said... in a nice way... 👍

[@paulsmith1923]

"Hate" might be a little strong, but there is definitely a lot of Ford vs Chevy going on. I think it's silly. I started in IDPA and now shoot both. In fact I like USPSA more. IDPA is like training wheels for USPSA now.

[@DJG37S]

IDPA vs USPSA is not a Ford vs Chevy thing, IDPA is freaking trash because of the scoring system. I posted this before on other Ben's video, but time plus is 100% garbage. Adding time to a shooter hitting -1 or -3 is stupid!!!! Why??? Because it basically tells people, "HEY STOP SHOOTING FAST AND INSTEAD SHOOT SLOW AN ACCURATE". If you shoot IDPA you should know that their scoring system is trash, and that if a person who shoots a stage 4 seconds faster then some one but had 4 points down that means they get 4 seconds added to their time, and a person who is 4 seconds slower then me but gets all 0's will have the same score. This is just straight up ass scoring. Also, don't get me started on this whole "IPDA is for real life scenarios" because in real life you NEVER want to go dry, instead you want to do a USPSA reload, if there are more threats in front you.

[@spartan5811]

​@@DJG37SHave you considered shooting faster AND more accurate?

[@n0tthemessiah]

@@spartan5811 Check out spartan with the big brain, over here

[@joshb5719]

I'm 24 and just shot my first IDPA match on Saturday. I was probably the youngest there by 20 years. The folks there were nice enough, but compared to the USPSA matches I've attended, the disparity in skill level was massive.

[@toddockert9562]

I shoot both, and in our area of West Texas, we have people who shoot both disciplines. We give each other a hard time in a fun way when shooting USPSA, like, Don't forget your vest, or If shooting IDPA, That open gun is not allowed, don't forget to download your mags. We enjoyed both because of what they brought to the table, and we shot each as intended. Each is a game, and you run on the edge of the rules for your advantage.

[@swiftaudi]

I love both sports. Idpa, be accurate go fast. USPSA go fast be accurate. I don’t think there is hate right now, I do think there is the crowd that thinks one sport is better than the other. It takes more skill to be a USPSA GM than to be an IDPA master. I prefer IDPA but I love the run and fun in USPSA.

[@redfoure]

I started off competition with IDPA in the late 90s. It was fun, but I jumped to USPSA because it got old getting dinged for procedural and then lectured by a Fudd about proper use of cover and what a person would do in "actual" combat - as a combat vet and cop, it got a little old. I like USPSA because it's speed and simple.

[@jediknight1294]

Being told 'you'd never do that in combat' by a 65yr old diabetic accountant in a fishing vest with patches to weight the pocket so it swings out, when you've shot and killed someone with a handgun from concealed carry as a professional gun carrier always made me snigger.

[@brookecheney1357]

As a beginner I love that I started with IDPA. I was told where to go what to shoot and how I could move. I compare it to Checkers. Then I was introduced to USPSA and my mind melted, too many options for a rank beginner like me. I now tell my students the comparison is like Chess lots of options and strategy needed.

[@El_Peto]

English teacher?

[@anthonymoore8302]

Ben, I first saw you on utube shooting a IDPA QUAL with your Beretta 92, long long ago incredible vid. I have been a fan ever since!

[@JoshsGameClub]

His IDPA FAST drill and qualifier videos introduced me to him years ago, too.

[@ACxREAL]

I agree from where I’m standing it’s just a bunch of people shooting. Some folks like one or the other more but most people seem to like both. Certainly enough divisions in both sports for people to find a niche

[@MADDOG100ful]

I went and checked out an IDPA match last summer, I have now been shooting USPSA for over 6 years and those guys at the IDPA match cold shouldered me like I was a stepchild with covid, I thought this was really odd.... anybody that shows up to our club wanting to try something out new, like USPSA matches, we (Our club ) do everything possible to make them feel welcomed and wanted.

[@StevenPham217]

Our local club runs both IDPA and USPSA matches and honestly, it’s just fun to be able to shoot both Guys who get hung up on the fact that IDPA has too many rules are looking into it too much. You can still go pretty fast at IDPA and after your 2nd match, the rules really become second nature As for the IDPA guys who think USPSA is too game-y. There’s nothing in the USPSA rule book that says you have to shoot USPSA a certain way, just shoot how you want to if that’s your “training mindset” or what not. Overall, they both allow you to shoot around new people and bring a level of stress/competition.

[@jediknight1294]

It's better now FTDR has been removed/limited. The problem wasn't that there were too many rules it was always that the rules are so subjective. The fact you can be dinged for doing something that isn't prohibited by the rules OR the stage briefing but because the SO doesn't like it or 'doesn't think it fits the intent of the stage' you can be 10s down. It's the lack of consistency and the fact it's all subjective that was the issue.

[@paddypibblet846]

​@@jediknight1294Yes I personally prefer the scoring system of IDPA and the higher need for not being inaccurate. But the "tactical" rules are so subjective that it's entirely possible for an RO who dislikes you to take away points and let his boy get the win. And you wouldn't be able to argue it either since it's not concrete stuff. How do you measure how much or how little someone sticks out of over?

[@jediknight1294]

@@paddypibblet846 the cover rules at least have something you can argue it was the 'failure to do right' and 'not as designer intended' shit that wound me up

[@ouruiz]

In Northern California (Sacramento area) there is still some friction between two of these organizations. I started in IDPA, shooting CDP for about 10 years when another club member told me I should try USPSA. So after my first 2 matches in USPSA, I realized that competitors were not arguing with the ROs because they were not getting dinged for any procedures. The flow and culture of the match was a lot more streamlined and laid back than in an IDPA match. When I returned to an IDPA match again the following month, I began to notice a lot of time is wasted because there was a lot of bickering about how the stage was not set up correctly, or how one needs to shoot it this way. People would be arguing about how "The rules say this" even though nobody had a rule book in their bag. It would become so insufferable that if I said out loud that the "Sky was blue", someone from my squad would argue with me that it is not blue. In my region IDPA became like being on a parallel universe of the television show The View, which is why I stopped showing up to the IDPA matches.

[@rodralig]

My last IDPA match. I was reprimanded by the RO because my knees were bent, ie., loading for an explosive exit. he says it is not realistic and/or defensive. i argued that there is nothing in the IDPA rule book the says otherwise. RO had to pull "rank." Left a sore taste in my mouth - that was my last IDPA match, at least 3 years back.

[@stonehousereadersseries4097]

I took the intro to IDPA class from the Sacramento club a few years ago, shot a few times, took a break, and went back for my first match in Sloughhouse yesterday. I have a lot to learn. I am not very good. I also had a lot of fun! Now, everyone was cool, but there were a few intense competitors on my squad, and the bickering, rule-parsing, and word-gleaning at almost every bay was discouraging. I did not see odd procedurals being called; my only ding was for not engaging a target (I forgot it was there). The RO's were helpful and fair, but a few of the shooters, wow. The 'rulebook' came up often. I hope it was just a bad day. I hesitate to share this because I have never been to a USPSA match to compare and I want the good folks in IDPA to thrive. I DO like the focus in IDPA on accuracy. I can't imagine that another way with a firearm involved.

[@markfair8541]

I like both. I’m old and slow so IDPA is better for me. That being said there are more local IDPA matches in my area

[@texasranger24]

My USPSA trainign group is a bit like IDPA, we make short and scripted courses of fire because we don't want to be moving barriers for 5 hours to have the perfect freestyle arrangement, we want to work on target transitions or something and have an easy course of fire and focus on the skill we want to train. But on IDPA matches you have a rather cold atmosphere of people who obey the rules 110%. While you can go to most USPSA matches and the highest ranked shooter there will coach you on how to get better and what kind of barely legal modification you might sneak into your gun.

[@Mike-uc1eu]

The story I heard: USPSA nationals, around '94, Bill Wilson, who built very expensive single stacks, and no hi-caps, went to Andy Hollar, USPSA prez. at the time, and demanded a stage be changed to make it more single stack friendly. Was told to pound sand, so he went off to create a sport catering to his merchandise. I tried a few IDPA matches in '96, but as a USPSA shooter couldn't play the "everyone must shoot the stage the same way" game. Got rebuked and subjective penalties assessed for stepping through holes in the courses. No IDPA rule violation could be cited, but the club level "SO"s didn't think it looked like the course designer's intent, so "Failure to do right". I prefer to play using Objective rules, so haven't shot an IDPA match since '96.

[@S1deshowRob]

That’s what I heard as well, Wilson combat wanting to keep selling single stack pistols for competition

[@swiftaudi]

In IDPA I get to shoot from sitting in cars occasionally and we use a spot house at my local range. I like both sports.

[@micfasto8700]

2021 National Champion SSP was JJ Racaza. There was no Worlds in 2021. Nils was CO National camp in 2021.

[@neptunestrident4364]

I don’t give two *hits about either organization, and wouldn’t give them my money. I’m here for Ben because he has something to offer that’s relative to me.

[@TheBellman]

The whole recent history of action shooting games is people making up new rule sets that are supposedly more "tactical" and will stymie all the USPSA/IPSC "gamers" And then there's an A-class on the podium at every match anyways. It seems to me that USPSA type shooting is near the best way to get rock solid shooting and moving fundamentals and rule sets that try to slow things down just produce slower shooters with worse fundamentals When it comes to whether things are "tactical" or not, I don't think any shooting game is actually going to teach tactics in any meaningful way, so why have the pretense

[@InjunJoe-sh7wn]

This fits a discussion I was just having with someone. Tactics and skills are two different things. Treat them as separate things and it’s all good training. For example-say, this weekend is a uspsa match. Next month or whenever I’m going to school “x” for some tactical training. Both will work to make you a better overall shooter/defender

[@rodralig]

There is nothing "Defensive" in IDPA...

[@Jamesfort3520]

I help with our club hosting both. I am a CRO for USPSA and SO for IDPA. I like both sports don't really see friction.

[@breyonbradford3404]

Where I am located, a lot of people including myself shoot both disciplines. We actually rotate them every other weekend. IDPA has actually seen growing numbers. There isn’t really any beef between the two here. We just have competitive fun. I like that they are different and each produces their own unique challenges. IDPA made USPSA come up with Limited Optics because you can shoot SAO in IDPA Carry Optics. 2011’s are more popular than they’ve ever been and IDPA was capitalizing off of that when USPSA wasn’t. USPSA was just throwing everyone into Open Division if you were shooting Minor.

[@davenewman570]

Appreciate the objective commentary.

[@travispowell2471]

Both can be fun. For me it mostly depends on the people at the club. Different clubs have different vibes. Both organizations have cool people, and both have D bags. Ben said it very well. I shoot with both idpa and uspsa guys and we have a good time. Here in South Florida we have alot of both idpa and uspsa. idpa is strong down here tho and growing.

[@brucejohnson8096]

I'd like to hear what type of beef JJ Racazza has with you - he has blacked out your name on all competition results he has posted on his Instagram. Also, any thoughts on JJ winning the 2021 IDPA Nationals after being DQ'd and becoming the first DQ DM ever?

[@dwbowhunterable]

PCSL is catching on locally. Good to see a better ruleset for 2 gun.

[@dmann9399]

A video or podcast on what you think the future of shooting sports or shooting in general is, this would be interesting. Say a prediction of 5-10+ years out, have some guests if you want.

[@GetLeVeLed]

I like that I can be competitive with a typical carry gun (e.g. G43 or G19) in IDPA because it has divisions for smaller guns like that. If I shoot a G43 in USPSA I just hurt my Production classification for no good reason.

[@rodralig]

That is not on the gun... You can get high-classifications in USPSA Production even with a G26. even from deep concealment. it is difficult, but not impossible.

[@GetLeVeLed]

@@rodralig G26, sure. G43, not so much - mag capacity (or lack thereof) alone is a massive setback. Good luck making GM with that.

[@rodralig]

@@GetLeVeLed Getting to GM is not a goal for me... At my class, I am more proficient that the majority of most doing tactical/defensive. That said, there are actual USPSA shooters that are GM with a G26, and actually place high in the Nationals.

[@micfasto8700]

One advantage of IDPA is you can show up and shoot and do well. A 7AM USPSA match means I get up at 4 AM drive the hour to the match and spend an hour walking the four or five stages. USPSA makes you a better practical shooter and IDPA is a better test of those skills against others as the stage plans are usually very similar in execution on IDPA stages. The New IDPA rules since the major update in 2017 are way better than they were before then with less subjective calls on cover.

[@thatglockguy17]

I started shooting both. When I was more of a beginner, I like IDPA more. As my skill developed, I started to prefer USPSA. And currently, I like USPSA more. I feel shooting IDPA as a gamer (full size gun and fishing vest) is kinda silly. I really like IDPA for carry practice though. Nowadays I mainly shoot IDPA from real concealment, using one of my carry guns. I feel it is a way more valuable game shooting it that way vs the IDPA gamer way. Also in my area (Northern California), there is only 3 IDPA clubs and there is 10 USPSA clubs.

[@NDcompetitiveshooter]

I find it funny that people classify certain participants in a game as "gamers," when it is, in fact, a game.

[@thatglockguy17]

​@@NDcompetitiveshooter Find it funny then. But you know what I'm talking about. Not everyone at an IDPA or USPSA match is a "gamer". Some just want to have fun and don't really care where they finish and may not use the best holster/gear, etc. Those are the "regs". Then the guy with the jersey, best equipment, talking about their dry fire sessions and taking the match super competitively, those are the gamers. I don't mind USPSA gamers though, because USPSA is cool, and bills itself as a sport and a game. On the other hand, I feel IDPA acts like its as Carry match but you have the gamers wearing finishing vest and shooting G34s. Most people don't wear a fishing vest day to day and most people don't carry a G34. So to me its silly when people are "gamers" at IDPA. Really, every one should be showing up with their actual carry guns and using real concealment, not a full size gun and some silly vest.

[@NDcompetitiveshooter]

@@thatglockguy17 People who want to use the sport of IDPA to practice their concealed carry skills are welcome and encouraged to participate in any way they feel benefits them, but should never forget that at the end of the day--it is a sport. Forming a clique of judgmental fudds that complain when someone actually tries to win the game they are all playing is not helpful. Also, those attitudes are what have limited the growth of IDPA in certain clubs or regions. Thankfully, IDPA in general has been progressing away from that mentality. If you have recommendations on a rule change for IDPA concealment garments, you can certainly let them know, but the competitors don't make the rules--they simply play by them.

[@user-zf4iu7hu5j]

Just last night I was wondering why Ben didn't go back to IDPA after the 2019 USPSA debacle. Having casually shot both disciplines in Wisconsin, I am fairly certain I know the answer. It has more to due with club culture. There are IDPA groups within ready driving distance of me that meet the stereotype of white haired pedantic boomers. They seem more concerned with technical stages designed to trip shooters up, sometimes literally, than seeing shooters grow and succeed. There are also USPSA groups with shooters off their ADHD meds, obsessed with hit factors, and secrete John Wick man crushes. For my part, I have grey hair. I find the slower pace of IDPA easier. I do like the youthful atmosphere of USPSA. I have more room to grow in USPSA as a shooter. Neither sport is fundamentally better than the other. It is the character of the people around each that is different.

[@anele3426]

Compete in IDPA because local IPSC officials are jerks and I dont want to give them any money

[@OntarioBearHunter]

Canada?

[@anele3426]

@@OntarioBearHunter nope, small unknown country Estonia

[@AJPM802]

In the past few years I've shot far more IDPA than USPSA simply because of scheduling convenience. Just one club for each in a reasonable radius and half a day on a Saturday is better for me than almost a whole day on Sunday (plus at least another half day on Saturday and another 2 hours of driving if I want to help set up.) IDPA is fun for me, but in a different way. Can run a bunch of different guns with minimal equipment investment compared to USPSA, and as one of the resident "gamers" who came from that side of things, am still competitive. It helps that nobody at my club take themselves too serious (no "kilt in the streets" talk.)

[@rodralig]

I have not shot IDPA in at least 3-years now... the rules, etc. just makes it LOL. Carry Optics with magwells and ESP setup?

[@bhavnish22]

As a competitor in both, never have I clicked on a video as fast as this one. IDPA for sure tries hard to NOT be USPSA. The scoring system favors accuracy over speed. BUT anyone who has shot an IDPA major match will know, the top shooters are able to shoot accurate (all down zero's) at pretty high speed - it takes a lot more hard work to go fast in IDPA due to the unforgiving nature of the scoring system. I have found that IDPA shooters can transition to USPSA and eventually get faster, but the reverse is typically hard, because the USPSA shooters don't have patience with the strict rules, limited round counts and scoring system of IDPA. Ultimately they are different sports and we should be glad to have both, so people can choose what fits them best.

[@paddypibblet846]

Screw both. PCSL is where it's at. Young guy and multiple time champ Max Leograndis came up with a better system, better targets, better everything.

[@seanmccurdy94]

I like idpa because I dont have to snipe match registration to shoot a few stsges with friends.

[@ProjectD13X]

2 sporting leagues in competition which ends up making both of them better is exactly what I hope happens with PCSL and USPSA in the current era. Granted the board is still fucked so I'm thinking it'll be a minute before things start improving on the USPSA side of the house.

[@perraultd]

I prefer USPSA and PCSL. No friction. I have shot IDPA and don’t like a lot of the rules, so I don’t bother with it. It’s just not nearly as fun.

[@den_see]

In my country, among the hundreds, if not thousands of shooting clubs/ranges, only one runs idpa matches as far as I know. And i guess im the same as Ben. If IPSC didnt have a production division i would probably be less interested.

[@herknorth8691]

Competition (no pun intended) is good for the consumer.

[@piouswhale]

I mostly use USPSA as a way to keep up handgun skills for 2 gun armored matches as well as action challenge matches. Running through stick courses is sweet, but so is being able to have consistant pistol marksmanship after sprinting 100+ yards in 30-50 pounds of kit or doing obstacles in kit.

[@BetterMarksman]

As someone who started with IDPA (I am a Master) and now exclusively shoots USPSA (High A Class), I have yet to hear a valid anti-USPSA argument from IDPA shooters. The most common complaint I hear is that "USPSA is just a game and IDPA helps prepare me for real life scenarios". I could not disagree more with this type of statement. BOTH sports are games, and USPSA/IPSC is a far better test of your hard skills when it comes to shooting. This is mainly because of how much better hit factor is compared to points down as a scoring method. In addition, artificially throwing tactics into a shooting sport doesn't make it more realistic. The forced procedural rules in IDPA such as slicing the pie and never dropping mags with ammo in them are annoying at best and stifle creativity as you make a stage plan. It is also less fun by a big margin, because a hoser run in IDPA is incredibly slow and boring compared to a hoser in USPSA. The skill gap between IDPA and USPSA is also very large. Most IDPA Masters (unless they also shoot USPSA) routinely get smashed by B Class USPSA shooters. To put a bow on this, if someone shoots IDPA but not USPSA I think it's cool that they're doing at least something in the practical shooting space. It's just not where I want to spend my energy, travel money, time, and ammo anymore.

[@jeromehargus3218]

Shit, was that a crazy troll by Ben, or just dumb luck. According to Todd Anderson in these comments JJ won SSP in 2021. If I recall that was the year he DQed, got unDQed with the "I didn't know that rule" excuse and went on to win. Beretta was the main match sponsor, but I am sure that no effect on the ruling 🤣🤣🤣 But I could be misremembering, it's been a while..

[@heeebeeegeeebeee]

Ah yes, now we’re tackling the real topics 🤘

[@OrionCorsari]

Ben, the enmity between these two shooting disciplines is absolutely palpable.

[@koirrah5986]

In Scandinavia we have a 3 gun sport called reservist shooting (like Finnish brutality). While shooting is similar there's again friction on silly topics like what should one wear in competition. Stuuupid

[@AlexanderSotelo]

IDPA: The embodiment of slow is smooth and smooth is fast.

[@BaerRennen]

Slow is just slow, as evident by how many people struggle jumping into USPSA after only ever doing IDPA.

[@M1911jln]

Slow is just slow.

[@JordanMadridGB]

🤮

[@julianmercier]

So much for the "shooting community." Everyone at each others throats. USPSA thinks that they are right and everyone is wrong. The same can be said for IDPA, IPSC, and all the rest. 35,000 USPSA members and 25,000 IDPA members out of 110 million gun owners. I guess that should tell us something. If you can enjoy it, right on. YMMV.

[@derek45auto23]

IDPA is Cartman saying….” screw youguys (USPSA) i’m going home,…to start my own game” ….butthurt from the start

[@robolson7669]

If we had idpa here……I would do it. I would not however buy a duck vest. That is bullshit. Nobody wears a duck vest in public………..

[@jediknight1294]

IDPA is only worthwhile with a club that doesn't take it too seriously. Iv seen far more shitty attitudes at IDPA and heard open discussion about punishing people the SO doesn't like with subjective FTDR than iv EVER seen a RO at IPSC attempt to screw someone. The lectures about what I'd done that was completely within the rules and the stage briefing didn't prohibit it got old as well.

[@765para]

IDPA is partially developing, allowing compensated guns and relaxing equipment rules, and I really do like BUG and CCP as divisons, but especially the current stage design rules are partially frustating and need to be cleaned up. Max shooting distance is now limited to 20 yards (scenario stages) or 30 yards (standard stages), 75 % of all shots need to be on 15 yards or closer, max 10 yards of movement between two shooting positions, max 20 yards per stage ... Agreed, this should still be a shooting sport and not primarily a 100 yards race with one or two shots, but requiring some running should not be prohibited. It would also be nice if shooters can actually vote for their ACs/RACLs/IPOCs like they do in USPSA.

[@NDcompetitiveshooter]

20 yards is still a decent amount of movement. The justification is that they want it to primarily compare defensive shooting skills versus your 50 yd dash time. Both sports are fun IMO.

[@765para]

@@NDcompetitiveshooter Agreed, but an occasional deviation would spice up a match. Currently we have scenario and standard stages. Allowing one or two complex stages that stretch the limits (e.g. more than 18 rounds per stage, more running etc) would be cool though.

[@___sssebastiannn___]

I want to try USPSA, but geography says IDPA it is

[@AJPM802]

Yep, I really envy people with options every weekend, on weeknights, etc.

[@ronskayakingandfishing414]

I enjoyed IDPA, but my major beef is the penalties invoked for lack of cover and stuff, and the potential for bias to creep in. I'd seen person A get called for a penalty, then the Ranger Officer's buddy would shoot and NOT get called for a much worse violation. I felt like USPSA had a lot less potential for bias, and I wasn't really interested in "tactical" style shooting. Sure, I carry a weapon for self defense, and if I ever got into a shootout, you can believe I am going to use cover (if possible) and not just stand there a blaze away. I don't think I need to practice that stuff.

[@abadonael]

IPSC is overall best, right?

[@JordanMadridGB]

I Don't Practice Anymore

[@kristjonpedersen9342]

Any update coming on that staccato you bought?

[@BenStoeger187]

It’s sitting awaiting pickup

[@Curtis_Bro_Shooting]

"Who was xx champion in 20xx" just say Nils, it always just Nills.

[@8garyhouse8]

If you want to get hated on....show up at an IDPA\USPSA match and say you are a steel challenge shooter😆. Talk about being the red headed step child of the Shooting world.

[@kenwickes2497]

If you want to train for CC or "tactical" then IDPA is probably for you. If you want to run and gun then USPSA is the way. Now days, I'd say IDPA is more restrictive of the firearm you use. USPSA pretty much allows anything and everything, there is a division for you. My current Carry Optics division gun is not allowed in IDPA, otherwise I'd shoot both. Overall higher skilled shooters are in USPSA if competition is your thing. As far as majors go IDPA has more circus tricks type stages that max out at 18 rounds shot, while USPSA meat is the long course with 32 rounds minimum and actual shooting challenges instead of props. Talking majors here. Your experience may vary.

[@CR12221]

Good info, 1st comment I see answered all my questions the rest I can google "guns types for each of match. " Thanks

[@thatglockguy17]

That's what I do. I shoot USPSA as a sport but I use IDPA as carry practice, shooting from real concealment. I think shooting IDPA as a gamer (full size gun and fishing vest) is kinda silly.

[@NDcompetitiveshooter]

IDPA CO firearm rules are fairly relaxed IMO: 45 oz and fits in the box. I don't know anyone that actually carries something bigger or heavier than that concealed in public.

[@kenwickes2497]

@@NDcompetitiveshooter I don't carry my competition gun.

[@NDcompetitiveshooter]

@@kenwickes2497 That's fine, but the IDPA rules are based on the principle of using guns that reasonably could be carried concealed. Competition only guns fit better for USPSA.

[@Sgt.7244]

Both disciplines are sport. Neither have much relevance to an actual gunfight, although IDPA purports their matches as such. If you wanna have fun and get to be a better “shooter” shoot whatever discipline you like. Just don’t think you are actually training for the street other than the 20-30% that is involves marksmanship. 🇺🇸👮🏻‍♂️👍🏻

[@julianmercier]

I would agree with you. ... I had a comment posted about different types of competitors at each others throats and the "shooting community" not being able to agree on too much. It was deleted of course. I guess the 35,000 USPSA members are right, and the 110 million of us that are not members are wrong. D'oh!

[@Proton_Decay]

All the jokes I hear about IDPA are about being too young to join.

[@johnboyd6139]

My hotel room is much shittier than yours. Nothing tondonwith USPSA/IDPA. Just an observation.

[@robertsmith2300]

IDPA seems to attracta the worst kind of shooters who have such a shitty attitude imo. It blows my mind that a sport set up to be "defense" is less "tactical" and realistic than uspsa