USS Chesapeake and the Battle of Boston Harbor

[@billboth4814]

According to one author, Broke was cognizant of Chesapeake's superior sailing qualities & positioned Shannon so as to offer a challenge to a gunnery duel that Lawrence could have avoided and Shannon was sure to win. Lawrence's vanity got the better of him and proved fatal.

[@captwrecked]

There is still a decent collection of artifacts from both ships at the Maritime Museum in Halifax, NS, Canada. And an interesting albeit fictionalized account of the battle from Author Patrick Obrian in his Aubrey-Maturin series as well.

[@blowupbob1]

Please Mr. History Guy, do an episode about Oliver Hazard Perry's victory. I'm from Erie Pa, and we have a sailing replica of the Brig Niagara. It's a great story and I would love to have you tell it. It's definitely, history that deserves to be remembered.

[@shanegrosse1393]

Greetings from Scituate MA! Great to see some local history be told, there is a plaque at the Scituate Lighthouse paying homage to this battle. We still fly our "Dont Give Up The Ship" flags proudly!

[@nemo6686]

Don't you think it at all strange to memorialize a *failed* rallying-cry? I'd imagine it would be more motivating to remember one's wins rather than losses.

[@jacktattis]

@@nemo6686 Well Australia and New Zealand commemorate ANZAC Day a failed WW1 Campaign

[@nemo6686]

@@jacktattis Harsh, but fair. Where's your Dunkirk* spirit? (* We won't have any of that Dunkerque malarkey!)

[@flaskehrlenmeyer4349]

thanks for this. my introduction to the story of the USS Chesapeake was some years ago tat the Halifax tattoo, where ecstatic Canadians annually re-enact and cheer the victory of the HMS Shannon.

[@semigoth299]

The story behind the term,don’t give up the ship as always spot on

[@mattsheehanphotography8188]

The Maritime Museum of the Atlantic in Halifax has some artifacts from the battle! An interesting story, Lawerence was buried at Halifax's Old Burial Ground, only to be exhumed and moved to New York a few decades later. Lawernece's grave sat just meters away from that of British Gen. Robert Ross, whose rockets gave influence to the author of the American national anthem!

[@RealSaintB]

Oliver Hazard Perry, whom you mentioned in this video, is a legend in the US Navy for defeating the British on the Great Lakes, he was part of nine successful campaigns on lake Erie and died of yellow fever in 1819 after drafting a treaty between the United States and Venezuela. His brother Matthew was not a TV star, but an even bigger influence on the modern navy than his brother. Matthew's efforts are what convinced the US Navy to adopt steam ships early on and also helped create the original curriculum for the US Naval Academy, he led the expedition that opened Japan up to trade with the world. Both of them are like saints to the US Navy.

[@shawncook7656]

The best telling of this sad tail was told by Patrick O'Brian in one of his Aubrey, books. The Shannon was a crack ship with much experience.

[@MGB-learning]

Outstanding video and presentation.

[@williamscoggin1509]

You are a very good storyteller. It is easy to get caught up in the excitement of these stories while listening.

[@richardmalcolm1457]

I've seen it argued that Capt. Broke had his crews trained to the point of being the best gunnery crew in the entire Royal Navy (and therefore, perhaps, the entire world!) at that point. The argument may be difficult to prove, but there's no question that they were absolutely brilliant, and that it made the difference on the day of that battle.

[@skyden24195]

I've heard that too. I've seen another video that went into greater detail about Capt. Broke and his gunnery training aboard the H.M.S. Shannon, as well as his doctrine to (more or less) avoid battles where the odds against his ship were too great. Also Capt. Broke's absolute desire to have a pitched one on one battle with an equivalent warship which led to his challenge at Boston.

[@richardmalcolm1457]

@@skyden24195 Re: Avoiding bad odds. Actually, the British Admiralty took that problem in hand shortly after SHANNON's victory, issuing a secret order on July 10, 1813, that it did “not conceive that any of His Majesty's Frigates should attempt to engage, single handed" any of the heavy American frigates (that is, CONSTITUTION, PRESIDENT, and UNITED STATES) - these were only to be engaged by pairs or larger squadrons of British frigates. CHESAPEAKE, fortunately, was a perfect match for SHANNON, so the order would not have applied to Broke's situation even had it come before-hand. It was a kind of ratification of Philip Broke's strategy.

[@skyden24195]

@@richardmalcolm1457 nice. Thanks for the extra info.

[@jacktattis]

@@skyden24195 Rubbish NO R/N captain avoided battle not since Admiral Byng was executed for IT AND a Captain Kirby abandoned Admiral Ben Bow in Battle back in the 18th century One of the ships was late at the Battle of Trafalgar and fired on anything that moved it front of him it was a 64 gunned ship

[@skyden24195]

@@jacktattis read richardmalcolm1457's comment in this reply section.

[@RetiredSailor60]

Good Monday morning History Guy and everyone watching. The Navy is building a new class of Frigates named for the first Continental Navy frigates. A Charles F Adams class Guided Missile Destroyer was named in honor of Lawrence...I served on USS Semmes DDG 18 named for Confederate Rear Admiral Raphael Semmes

[@parcelmonious]

Greetings from old Hampshire. Chesapeake Mill is a quite unusual building, the design based on the dimensions of the timbers of the ship, unusually US Southern Pine rather than Oak.

[@richardmalcolm1457]

By the way, Patrick O'Brian has a riveting fictionalized account of the battle between CHESAPEAKE and SHANNON at the end of his Aubrey-Maturin novel, THE FORTUNE OF WAR. Aside from inserting his characters aboard the SHANNON, the account is a very faithful one to the known facts of the battle. The beginning of the sequel, THE SURGEON'S MATE, likewise gives an only lightly fictionalized account of the deliriously ecstatic reception of the news in Halifax and Portsmouth, where British sailors and civilians had been desperate for some positive news at sea of the "American War."

[@ericfg806]

Glad to see somebody mention O'Brian.

[@richd8537]

Perry's original "Don't Give Up The Ship" battle flag hangs in Bancroft Hall at the United States Naval Academy. It emboldened me during Plebe Year.

[@steveforster9764]

But they did give up the ship

[@johne7100]

Superiority in gunnery could usually be attributed to a rich captain, who could afford to lay in extra powder and shot for practice above and beyond.

[@ellisonms]

The actual "Don't Give Up The Ship" flag from the Battle of Lake Erie has been prominently displayed in Memorial Hall at the US Naval Academy for decades, where the USNA graduates who died in the defense of their country are memorialized in bronze to this day.

[@-jeff-]

Here's to you THG. Don't give up the quips.

[@lordflashheart3706]

Now, the Chesapeake so bold, sailed from Boston we've been told, for to take the British frigate neat and handy-o! The people in the port all came out to see the sport, and the bands were playing yankee doodle dandy-o!

[@nemo6686]

"the bands were playing yankee doodle dandy-o" No refunds!

[@tonydagostino6158]

I just happened to recently finish "Six Frigates" by Ian Toll. Great timing by THG! The story of the early navy is thrilling

[@amywright2243]

Oh good suggestion! You recommend the book?

[@tonydagostino6158]

@@amywright2243 Yes I would. It has pirates so how can you go wrong

[@skyden24195]

Yeah, if one group/ship is shooting at the enemy's rigging while that enemy is shooting at the men who are shooting at the rigging, it's not likely going to go well for those shooting at the rigging.

[@GRWINNER]

Thank you, Mr Lance! Great story!

[@shawnr771]

Thank you for the lesson.

[@coreydarr8464]

Thank you!

[@jeesmith99]

This incident was mentioned in Heinlein’s Starship Troopers.

[@neiltappenden1008]

As usual a great peice of history brought back to life that only you can do

[@frankgulla2335]

What a great of early American battle and what great pictures and slides. Thank you, THG.

[@ScottFarrell-tb8lj]

Age of Fighting Sale and Seven Frigates are great books on the war of 1812

[@ScottFarrell-tb8lj]

Age of Fighting Sail

[@Lord_Godd]

As a Haligonian, I love this story every time I hear it.You can still board a Leda class. The HMS Trincomalee is still floating in England.

[@angloaust1575]

They never had the french Helping them this time!

[@glencrandall7051]

We remember "Don't give up the ship", but they did.

[@Hezabelle77]

I'm only here because I read the title as USS Cheapskate and was excited to see a rowboat with a couple machine guns duct taped to the sides. Set myself up for disappointment, per usual.

[@dugroz]

🤣

[@neiltappenden1008]

I have a royal fusilier beret badge and hackle for your collection. How do I get it to you

[@TheHistoryGuyChannel]

If you wish to contribute to the collection you can mail to The History Guy, PO Box 1473, O’Fallon, Il, 62269.

[@astiwine2354]

To add to lordflashheart3706 "Now the British frigate's name That for the purpose came To cool the Yankee's courage neat and handi-i--o. Was the Shannon, Captain Broke, And his crew, all Hearts of Oak, And in fighting they were allowed to be the dandi-i-o"

[@dennisud]

This event, I did not know if. Thanks for giving its due here.

[@stuartriefe1740]

Good morning from Connecticut, fellow students! Hi winds and pouring rain here- glad to be in class!

[@FreeFallingAir]

Good morning from South Carolina, this is one of my favorite classes😊

[@giselematthews7949]

Good morning from Missouri!

[@michaelfisher7170]

Greetings from Southern Arizona...a bright cold morning here.

[@ithinkimarealboy2402]

Good morning from SoCal. It's always beautiful weather here.

[@Aramis419]

Hey howdy from the Keystone State!

[@DragonSt3alth]

Oh my...I read the title of this video as USS Cheapskate

[@amphionification]

Pre steam ship battles are so fun to hear about.

[@jliller]

Wooden ships, iron men.

[@Allan_aka_RocKITEman]

Great video...👍

[@bholdr----0]

Interesting facts follow: Some of the most important factors in the early American naval victories (war of 1812) were due to U.S. frigates being larger, more powerful, with larger crews of skilled volunteers, vs. the British, which had a lot of pressed men and landsmen (unskilled sailors) in ships which were smaller and carried fewer guns. BUT, that didn't apply when it comes to Chesapeake vs. Shannon (Shannon was known as a 'crack ship', with a highly skilled captain and officers, and Chesapeake was one of the smaller U.S. frigates (if 38 guns can be considered 'small', as that was still larger than the most R.N. frigates). Also, Shannon was around 1050 tons burthen vs Chesapeake's 1200: very comparable. Such nave 'actions' are fascinating- and there is a fantastic retelling by 'Master and Commander' author Patrick O'Brien. Which, in ''The Fortune of War' was largely drawn from contemporary accounts, logbooks, diaries, reporting, etc. With the exception of inserting his own fictional characters into the story as narrators/observers, it is basically 100% accurate, and I'd reccomend the entire series (generally called the 'Aubery/Maturin' series) to anyone who is even remotely interested in naval warfare, Georgian Britain and empire, and/or the age of sail. (The NY Times Book Review even called that expansive, informative, well crafted and written series 'The best historical novels ever written'...!). Cheers!

[@rwarren58]

Always good, always informative and somehow always relaxing. Thanks.

[@privateerwoodworksnmore]

Born n raised in n around Baltimore. I love this ships name thank you History Guy.

[@kelly3560]

Good morning fellow history buffs from the sodden shores of the Chesapeake Bay.

[@pauldiamond9219]

You should do an ep on the Penobscot Expedition of 1779, apparently it was the biggest US Navy defeat until Pearl Harbor...and as all good stories do, pirates were involved!

[@JohnJones-oy3md]

Have you ever done a piece on the USS Liberty? Couldn't find anything.

[@jeffbangkok]

Very much enjoyed on Tuesday afternoon

[@highpath4776]

one of my ancestoral relatives had become a US based person in Philadephia and based his shipping operations there (having previously been in (northern) Ireland. Much of the trades he did was timber from South America to New York and other seeboard ports. He had two ships captured by the British (despite his father being born in Ulster he was classed as US) and at best got small compensation from the US govt, and nothing from the British that retained their prizes !

[@v.e.7236]

This episode reminds me of a "surprise" 4th grade history test. Everyone was annoyed, but test time was my time to shine, as I refused to do homework, so tests were my redemption. As the test was nearing an end, the teacher gave us an extra-credit question: When was the war of 1812? Seriously?!? Easy peasy! I was one of only three students that answered the question correctly. smh

[@skyden24195]

😆 ...the final must have included the question, "Who's buried in Grant's tomb?"

[@v.e.7236]

@@skyden24195 Grant's dead?!?

[@skyden24195]

@@v.e.7236 lol

[@v.e.7236]

@@skyden24195 LOL

[@dugroz]

"I refused to do homework" - how were your grades that year?!?!?

[@nelsonbergman7706]

Thanks. I enjoyed the video. I was somewhat surprised to see the names of WWII carriers used then; Wasp, Hornet, and Enterprise.

[@realwealthproperties5671]

A little anecdote…Enterprise rent-a-car is name after the aircraft carrier of the same name. The man who started it, served aboard the ship in WW2.

[@tankman7711]

You should study USN naval history, most of the early ships names are used time and again.

[@stephenbarker5162]

As are many ships names in the Royal Navy.@@tankman7711

[@Spitnchicklets]

Love it

[@stuartriefe1740]

Oops “high” winds…

[@nathanappleby5342]

If I remember correctly, another reason for the American defeat was the type of wood the ship used. It was a weaker form than what other ships used, this when it was broken through spread splinters everywhere and caused mass casualties. Superior gunnery was a key factor in this happening. I would like to conclude with the remark that the American victory on Lake Erie was one of the most notable naval battles ever fought on a lake in wartime. There are not many such battles in naval history.

[@skyden24195]

Yeah, when thinking of naval warfare, a wartime battle between large warships on a lake typically doesn't come to mind. For such a battle to occur, the lake upon which the battle is fought surely has to be "great."

[@chrisvickers7928]

Splinters were a cause of many naval casualties. I read that the British tried building a ship out of teak instead of oak but the splinters were toxic. The governor Bermuda built a couple of cutters out of cedar but those splinters were also toxic.

[@RCAvhstape]

@@skyden24195 There were a handful of sizeable boat battles on Vietnamese rivers between the US Navy and North Vietnam, IIRC. Bosuns Mate First Class Willie Williams was awarded the Medal of Honor for a battle in which he led two patrol boats into battle on the Mekong Delta.

[@skyden24195]

@@RCAvhstape there were also a few notable warship battles during the American Civil War, particularly along the Mississippi River. Plus, it was at the joining mouths of a few rivers where the first ever ironclad vs. ironclad battle (USS Monitor vs. CSS Virginia) was fought.

[@vinnartaigh2076]

wasn't the Chesapeake refitted with Fir lumber? the "splinter wood"

[@Guangrui]

👏👏👏

[@sheltondavidson153]

Unrelated to this video, but it still triggered the forgotten memory of two cities, close to my home. Two cities with history I'd live to hear, and hate to see forgotten. The legend of the Caddo settlements of Nacogdoches, Texas and Natchitoches, Louisiana. Allegedly named from two sons of a Caddo chief. The history... We would all enjoy it, I'm certain.

[@johngregg5735]

Sail; la vie, as they say

[@dk3062]

Patrick Obrien has this clash in his book "The Fortune of War" as part of his"Aubrey/ Maturing" series

[@jaffian]

with further references to "Java" and the "horrible old Leopard"

[@J.A.Smith2397]

😊

[@randywise5241]

I read somewhere that the English ship had better hulls. American ships didn't have English oak. Splinters were worse on the American ship.

[@marklittle8805]

A lot of the oak they used in the 1800's started to come from Canada. I know the masts in particular came from Canada

[@randywise5241]

@@marklittle8805 Most of the hull of the American ship was made from local popular trees.

[@marklittle8805]

@@randywise5241 if the Americans were using poplar, I would wonder why. Most of the ships of the line were Oak. The Constitution is a perfect example of it and it was built at the same time as the Chesapeake. America had a lot of Oaks to use at this point in time

[@randywise5241]

@@marklittle8805 It was budget constraints. Only the top ships had the good oak. Must cutters and sixth rate vessels were built on the cheap. I misspelled poplar, so I could be wrong.

[@notshapedforsportivetricks2912]

My understanding is that the hulls of the american frigates were made of white oak, which was a ey strong timber and apparently superior to european oak. This, and the short curing time is apparently why USS Constitution was called Old Ironsides. Drachinifel did a youtube video on the Constitution which explains this, as I recaĺl.

[@michaelscreen6921]

I made a table from timber belonging to the Chesapeake.

[@sethleach6867]

Can you do one on the history of the Louffa gourd, sponges, etc....??

[@Jerhyn7]

Seven words that make algorithms love You.

[@merlinwizard1000]

9th, 18 December 2023

[@punishersnake4888]

Lol I read the title as the USS cheapskate.... Lol funny stuff... Really good video

[@bigsarge2085]

✌️✌️

[@accomuk]

From the British Point of View, maybe that was payback for the Boston Tea Party?

[@ianwhitehead3086]

Halifax can be a tough town.

[@glendaquick9290]

I am curious about the Theodore Roosevelt mentioned as taking part in 1812. Was this an ancestor of the President Theodore Roosevelt?

[@TheHistoryGuyChannel]

That was a reference to a book that Theodore Roosevelt wrote in 1883 about the Naval War of 1812.

[@LeoTheLion01]

Wasn’t she built from old weathered wood & much of the same oak the Constitution was built from had been used for other purposes intended for her, because of the delays in building her!?

[@backseatgamer7367]

Steamships canda ruined the age of sail.

[@Inflorescensse]

If only they’d given Aubrey his heavy frigate Blackwater, he’d have showed us!

[@13thdukeofwybourne69]

Lucky Jack you say? A glass of wine with you Sir.

[@yoinkhaha]

They captured our frigate in 15 minutes??? God, what an eternal embarrassment…

[@jovanweismiller7114]

The War of 1812. In the words of the War of 1812 Song by Three Dead Trolls in a Baggie, 'The only War that America lost (except for Vietnam)!'

[@rejvaik00]

Not going to lie I thought that said USS Cheapskate and I had a good laugh for a solid 5 minutes

[@mrmudcatslim1004]

I can only imagine the conditions are armed forces endured back then. It had to be hard. I think a ship might be one of the harder postings. Today I read where people in the Army complain about the conditions. I was in the Navy. I hear other branches are doing the same. Complaining. Whining. So called no respect from officers. They don’t like orders. The pay has always been low. There has been physical training. They don’t like that. They don’t like menial jobs. I lost count of how many I had to do. Over all it was not bad. Don’t know what’s changed. Well, we did not have time out cards to hold up back then. My goodness you could be yelled at to. The armed forces certainly have changed. Is it for the better? You’ve seen the trans…formation yourself. Those recruiting videos are interesting. DEI now the most important mission. Good luck folks.

[@scottabc72]

This is a lot of (really ignorant) whining from someone that supposedly doesnt like whining

[@ZIGSVIDS]

I was there up in the crows nest , got thrown into the water and woke up on an almost deserted Island . There was this fella Rob there and his mate who walked funny.

[@EGSBiographies-om1wb]

144th