Vampire: the Masquerade - On the Nature of Vampires

[@clairestark9024]

I recall one of pcs summarised her thoughts on this subject as "I know I'm not human but I am still a person."

[@edmaldonado8207]

I've always liked the term: Power doesn't corrupt. It reveals. And that's how I like to think of Vampires when they're young. They're not all that different from humans other than having certain taboo urges but they also have great power when compared to humans. So the personal horror comes with how the fledgling utilizes their power. How they handle their condition. As they get older things get worse in a way. Their mortal connections begin to sever. Everyone they ever loved whose mortal will die while the vampire keeps going, still stuck in the same state they've always been stuck in. As the years go by, it becomes so easy, so terrifyingly easy, for the vampire to just be incapable of relating to humans anymore. I like to think some ancillae and especially elders often get to this point. Their mindset becomes more alien, more cold, more disconnected. This is especially the case when influenced by other vampires like them, whom they may naturally gravitate towards since there's really no one else to relate to. Life becomes mundane. Humans start to become little more than food or playthings or even nuisances. With age the vampire's power also increases as well, leading more to that disconnect. This is why the path of humanity is often encouraged, because to feel anything, even pain or guilt, still means you're feeling something. The moment the vampire can commit terrible acts without feeling much of anything is when the vampire should truly be concerned. That's when the person they once was is truly gone forever. That is what makes this game personal horror.

[@luccaaiello]

Just can't agree more

[@edmaldonado8207]

@@luccaaiello :)

[@dustind4694]

Power reveals; time corrodes.

[@friendlystoryphantom2043]

So, you just made me realize something about my Pander (or Clanless, or Caitiff) is that due to her years of survival in the Camarilla, she had to abandon her emotion and the woman she once was because of this, she's far more monstrous at the tender age of 100. She is now a Sabbat and it's no surprise that she fits in with them.

[@Blackferret66]

For me, there are three factors that cause a Kindred to eventually move beyond thinking themselves as human. 1. The Beast. I don't subscribe to the idea that becoming a vampire destroys the soul. I view the Beast as a person's base survival instincts jacked up to 11. The Blood wants to survive, above all else, and so it's power attaches itself to the most primal aspects of the mind to ensure it. 2. Needing to drink blood. Vampires can try to think of themselves in human terms as long as possible, but when you're talking about your food source, I think you have to disassociate yourself from it to some extent or go nuts from guilt and cognitive dissonance. 3. Immortality. There's a reason that most people don't get too attached to their goldfish. The longer you live and the more you see people come and go, it gets harder to get emotionally attached. As with above, it almost becomes necessary to stop being attached to them for the sake of your sanity.

[@Darkestdarkify]

I like the way you phrased this.

[@skynet9455]

There will be no sense of guilt if you managed to feed exclusively on criminals who committed terrible deeds. If half of them are also maniacs, then everything is fine with the moral resource))) You will not turn into a beast, because even in the human world, for you, the above-mentioned personality subjects are worth killing! The irony is that you will feel guilty for letting the criminals go))

[@marissashantez6051]

Except youre unlikely to survive that way.

[@nilo5747]

Oddly enough, it was an anime I felt did Vampires right. Shiki. A grimdark story about Vampires needing to kill to survive, and how this affects those that turn as a small village is slowly murdered and/or turned (not guaranteed to turn, but the victim needs to die to potentially turn). Some Vampires embrace it, and whilst they're still the same person, that power and need to kill to survive turns them into much darker beings. These people reveal their inner natures through it, and yet, many others that turned are still so alike to their human selves. Some are entirely reluctant to kill, and only do so to sate their ravenous hungers. They become less caring, but not so different to how they were. Finally, a few entirely reject the transformation, and refuse to kill at all, letting themselves starve to death even though it's said starvation is extremely torturous to endure. SPOILERS: At the end though, the remaining villagers turn against the Vampires, their former friends and companions. In turn, several of the humans become monsters themselves to kill the Vampires. An abusive father murders his vampire son, a doctor tortures his own turned wife to learn about the Vampires, with the wife not even aware of what's going on, only that the man she loved is now torturing her. He eventually hammers a stake into her heart, which doesn't go through with one swing. Her final moments are pure agony as her body contorts, her muffled screaming echos through the lab as her life is taken from her again. Nobody is innocent anymore, and people on both sides didn't deserve to die. What hits hardest though, is that it's never 100% stated that Vampires NEED to kill to survive. The one that told them that was so uncaring towards most humans he considered them food and nothing more. He could have lied, told the fledglings to feed from the same person until they die. Told them to do so, so their numbers would grow. Yet even he isn't the mastermind, he's simply the one leading the fledglings under someone else's order. A seemingly young, deathly pale girl who's over a century old. She's not an infinitely wise vampire, but still very much a child who wanted a village of vampires so she'd never feel alone again. Shiki is an amazing show that I'd highly recommend, but it's definitely a horror, and quite a slow burner until midway through the 25 episode series. There's also plenty of gore, and it can be quite depressing, because it's quite nihilistic.

[@duyas1628]

Shiki is great the ending really shows why humans are the apex predatory.

[@GodReigen]

Basically, the only anime that properly depicts vampires as they should.

[@JJsuperJJ]

Love the video. I was talking to a friend about humanity and the beast and we echoed the same sentiment: More often than not, it’s kindred society and choices that usually eat away at their humanity, not the beast.

[@muhammadedwards8425]

There is a flaw to that though, as disciplines and your clan do affect your personality which are related to your beast. Whether people roleplay it that way doesn't change that.

[@memesterjohnson4096]

@@muhammadedwards8425 but no to the degree that it would make you a horrible monster.

[@muhammadedwards8425]

@@memesterjohnson4096 I agree, but malkavs would be a little crazy, ventrue would be a little more classy, assamites would want justice etc. The sudden change in physiological is interesting, but how characters deal with Clan specific changes are as integral to the game

[@uhuhuh2083]

I think the biggest problem is the power even a fledgling has over the mortals, that will mess with your head for sure.

[@fireorb2]

Most defiantly people can easily lose their morals. Greta power great responsibility.

[@muhammadedwards8425]

Yeah, I disagree with his perspective on the behaviour of vampires being tied primarily to their society. Their disciplines canonically change their outlooks on life. Auspex could make you see people as machines the more you understand them, overconfident in your awareness, or the opposite, paranoid in the fact that knowing that betrayal is coming doesn't mean you can stop it. If you get sensory overload, won't that tempt you to be more reclusive and sensitive to distraction. The clan you belong to also changes your personality to lean into the clan values and attitudes a bit more. Toreador biting an accountant won't make him a socialite, but he may seek higher thrills of emotion and lose himself over his newfound passions every so often. Also each clan treats their disciplines differently, the culture surrounding them. Nosferatu might treat their obfuscate with inherent underhandedness, creepiness and shame while Banu haqim might treat obfuscate with pride, honour and zeal

[@guyver441]

Love the music background choice! Unmistakable after the obscene number of times I have played through that game. We must remember, in addition to the beast new vampires must also reckon with the call of the blood. All vampires are automatically blood bound to their sire and by extension their elders, and this would impact the thought process with urges ranging from subtle to intense.

[@Wouldyoukindly4545]

It took me a couple minutes to hear it, playing the volume low, but as soon as I heard I recognized it and got a chuckle.

[@mephistophelesthesilentchi3446]

Excellent video. Reminds me of an old saying I heard once that man is not a rational animal, but a rationalizing animal.

[@anamcnamara9]

My interest in this has been sparked by a clip of Taliesin Jaffe saying 'Hey babydoll.' please tell me what I've been missing out on.

[@ThePrimogen]

Welcome to the Vamily! My vampire playlist should have a decent amount of info to get you started 😊

[@skeletonking4119]

It’s really scary how humanity works, I mean I mean after I played bloodlines , I always aim to be more as humane as possible but remember that I am a monster not as a human but can be more human than a monster, especially after what I see in night road. But thank you for show this us! There’s one additional note I would’ve say: To live forever, is eternal, and how many vampires view it, it’s not life, never live nor dying, forever on.

[@papallegatepoope3010]

What separates a man from a vampire? Well when something is blessed it is made holy, it can only be used for good. It is set aside for holy stuff. (In a historical context). A vampire is made the opposite. It is set aside like Cain was but for evil.

[@Gangrel442003]

Welcome back Primo. Great video as always...

[@shenotski]

And this is everything Paradox has forgotten

[@dougf1249]

Wonderful video on kindred verse humanity. Reminds me of some of the conversations i’ve had IC with my malkavian in obwn larp. I love these kind of topics

[@netobitencourt7909]

Hey, i would love a video about the Salubri lore. Nice video as always!

[@josephcosta1699]

It all comes down to adapting to who or what kindred you become ..as time goes on you develope your vampire . Make the vampire you create your own ,

[@fireorb2]

Good video Prim, keep em coming. One day you'll go mainstream. The World of Darkness continues to be fascinating.

[@diegosalazar3520]

Thank you for this video, it's really interesting to hear! Is there any way for you to look at some clans who are more changed than others, such as Malkavians, Tzimichi and similar clans? Because I think I've read that Tzimichi go through some sort of horrific transformation compared to even the normal embrace.

[@____________838]

Interestingly, unlike the Nosferatu, the Tzimisce don’t necessarily have to go through any untoward bodily changes. Then again, Tzimisce sires may put their childer through untoward bodily changes just to drive the point “you aren’t human anymore” home…

[@genopsych]

One of the problems with the WoD is the changing conceits of the game. The rules change based on publications and what’s possible is based on current brand identity. Something rare or discouraged is later common or the current focus of the game. It makes it difficult to define what the inhabitants of the WoD truly are if that changes bases on current publications.

[@Chann223]

All good points you made Primogen.

[@mattd7695]

Great video, definitely gonna suggest any players I run for give this a watch before character creation 👍

[@JoeStoryteller]

hey, the KZbin algorithm just showed me this; nice job and really like your focus on the vampiric physiology

[@theoldcountry]

Thank you so much for this video! I think it's not only well presented, but very educational for players who come to Vampire from other games/settings and expect to be the same Joey Badass they played in more lighthearted and adventurous systems. Alas, this is not so, because besides the personal horror aspect of the game, there is also a societal horror to it. And from my point of view, besides the worldbuilding and superpowers and all that, it is predominantly the societies, the societal organization and norms that make up the setting in a lot of WoD games. You are effectively "locked away" from mortal society and forced into a twisted Jihad of manipulation and power-grabbing. No one is going to help you. Compared to humanity, you are a monster. Comparted to the monster, you're almost a poor helpless human they get to boss around and abuse. No one can help you but yourself, but in playing the Jihad you sink further into your OWN monstrous nature and lose that which you so desperately want to preserve and protect, the fragile beauty of being humane... Yup, gotta love WoD! Great video! PS: and this is why I play setting/sects as written, without making any major changes to the meta. There's so much depth to the setting already, you don't have time to be bored, even if you've read all the lore and books :D

[@ArdannaL]

Finally someone mentions how the beast is just a really loud Id. It really bugs me for immaturely and with such a basic thought process most people seem to apply to VTM.

[@D--FENS]

Perhaps this is a petty distinction, but I see the Beast as more like the Jungian shadow than Freudian id.

[@genopsych]

Do vampires have a “soul?” If not, then they are but a shade of their former selves and no longer subject to human destiny/karma. If yes, then they remain essentially on the wheel of samsara but with different vehicles/bodies. Their sense of identity will radically alter based on their experiences over time, just as they do for humans. The question is how do they remain sane by human standards? Humans need community and the capacity to create and not just be a force of entropy.

[@grandsome1]

Given that I've heard of ex vampire wraiths, they must have a soul. Also, I don't think "God" would've cursed Caine and let his soul run free.

[@9148H2]

Everyone has their own definition of what is a Vampire, and though World of Darkness has inspired me to write my own Vampire Novel I take my definitions of what makes a Vampire as partly spiritual and partly Lovecraftian due to the influence Brian Lumley had on me with his Necroscope series. To me, Vampirism is born within the soul after the body succumbs to its death. There was a video game that also helped me craft my writing better and that was the video game Bloodborne. Where Humans turned into monsters due to the beastly nature of the human soul. So I see Vampires as a dark reminder that Humans are and always will be vicious animals. Like Demons, Vampires can be a dark reflection of the human soul, and that is how it got me to see Vampires differently. I don't even have a Vampire creating a fledgling by feeding them their blood or biting them. That has become too cliche and seems more like the kind of writing for a bad porno than writing about something ominous. So I chose to not use that troupe with my Novel and decided to do something else that seemed fitting to me in how a Vampire is made.

[@user-rx2zp1um2n]

Since no one else is asking, I'll do it. Where did you find the cover image/thumbnail?

[@ThePrimogen]

It’s from VtR

[@user-rx2zp1um2n]

@@ThePrimogen I gathered, but which book?

[@Ana-ng1xk]

The beast may be a powerful and corrupting influence, but it's power is nothing compared to that of culture and society.

[@mattroxursoul]

I would question how any old vampires can cling to humanity at all. Sure 5 years or 20 years? You still have a pretty good grasp on who you were. But after a century? Unless there is some magic involved to expand memory your brain can only contain so much knowledge of the past. A lot of those things become more fleeting over the years. Like when you are a teen you can barely remember being 5. Or as you get older than that memories of teen years start slipping. You remember highlights of great things or awful things. But the mundane begin to muddy up. So say you were a vampire for 600 years, would you even remember anything of importance from original life? Or at some point would you begin to change your own memories bit by bit until what you remember is not even exactly real. Hell humans do that already with some situations. We will recall things poorly. Then just sort of fill the blanks in with what we think happened

[@thatoneguy6165]

This question has always been the most terrifying thing to me about the concept of immortality. Not just in a fantastic sense, like with vampirism, but the term in general. The human brain as an organ simply hasn't evolved to house such an overwrought storehouse of memories. As such, I've always assumed that a vampire's brain was strengthened and had its capacities expanded to an obscene degree, much like how the Kindred are capable of super-strength, super-speed, and super-durability. But if that's not canon, it's easy to understand how they'd lose touch not simply with just their humanity, but with their very selves as well. In my opinion the best example of this in vampiric fiction is Khayman from the Anne Rice novels.

[@anasb.8647]

Do you have a discord server mate?

[@VindensSaga]

I always imagined the beast to be the most basic reptile part of the human mind that is being repressed in order to function in society.

[@Darkestdarkify]

Stakes much higher. I see what you did there lol

[@darthkai3621]

Couldn’t they just drink animal blood?

[@competitiveshooter9577]

Why? Are animals expendable assets than humans?

[@darthkai3621]

@@competitiveshooter9577 yup

[@itinerantmercenary6988]

This is gonna be gross, and I apologize for it, but I’ve always wondered what that last crap you take smells like. Having grown up a farmer and had the dubious pleasure of dealing with dead animals, I can only imagine how the smell would assault the senses. Thank you for putting this video out, it’s very eye opening. I hadn’t considered the whole act of dying would change someone, let alone being surrounded by monsters. Edit: given that you’re most likely to be the childer or a potentially centuries old ancilla, there is a huge potential for humor. Bruja Toreador Ventrue Tremere: *slightly glazed eyes* aren’t you glad you’ll never have to deal with this again. Assamite: so help me if you say anything about putting the ass in Assamite I will end you myself. Malkavian: if you look closely at the folds and worls… childer: aaah no. Do I have to? Anarchs: maybe we should save this for the prince? anyone got a doggie bag?

[@danielpratt1970]

Nosferatu: get used to it. You'll be living in it by next week.

[@thesmilyguyguy9799]

: D