Vampire: the Masquerade - The Sabbat (Lore)

[@CastorRealista]

Pure Costello (or as we say here on Mx, Camaricón) propaganda. There isn't any mention or the freedom or brotherhood that the Holy ritual of Vaulderie gives us. Keep playing your chess games, happy in being the pawns of Mithras, Unmada, Al-Ashrad. That won't help you when the monsters that lurk beyond time come to devour you. Then we will see what's strongest, if your ivory towers or the heritage of Lugoj, Vasantasena and Gratiano, true Cainites in all regards, that came in the form of The Sword of Cain, Our Only and True Father. Renounce your birthright, your connection to the Madness, your right to Amaranth, your Will, your place as ultimate predator. Kindred!! Ha!! What a pityful word, for pityful beings. Even the lowest Pander is bravest and wisest than your justicars, for they have taken arms in the true Struggle, not your pet games, for pet bloodsuckers. The Childe of Saulot, the Martyrs of the Giovanni genocide. The have taken our cause. They are wise, and they will triumph. Come to Mexico City to learn what a real Cainite is. Bask in your nature. Cast out your grip of humanity. Your hold to it out of fear. Let go of that fear. Embrace your bloodright. Embrace your brothers and sisters. Embrace your freedom. Learn to be free. Be free. TRULY FREE!! That's the way of the Sabbat. That is the right way.

[@ThePrimogen]

o/ Preach it!

[@Mall13vm]

When the Bishop learns to use KZbin

[@GrashUriza]

The true video title is "So you survived shovel heading."

[@ThePrimogen]

Hahaha, god, I really should've used that title, huh? It makes sense XD

[@Duskwalker68]

The Sabbat is definitely the most interesting faction to me. While their methods may be awful, they're also the only ones who are correct about the Antediluvians which I find to be an awesome moral quandary. Not to mention Roads and Paths are way more interesting than Humanity! Looking forward to the Nosferatu video!

[@ThePrimogen]

I share the sentiment! I've grown more fond of them as a game concept because there's so much depth and variation offered with the paths, and I like the concept of roaming packs a lot. Thanks for stopping by!

[@jackcoleman1784]

I always saw that contrast as being the most obvious downside to the bueraucratic ego of the Camarilla. The Camarilla is obviously not as bureaucratic as a human democracy but is still far more bureaucratic than the Sabbat. Whereas the Camarilla has an official face if you will the Sabbat have no illusions about who they are, what they see, or what they believe.

[@ItCameFromTheSkyBeLo]

My anarch tzimisce: The antedeluvians do not exist.

[@Nyrufa]

Ironically, the Sabbat are the only one out of the three major sects who can provide you with allies that you can genuinely trust to have your back. The Vaulderie may create bonds of artificial love between packmates, but as least you know the other members of your pack will fight to the death for you, instead of selling you out the moment a better opportunity comes along.

[@enexe6229]

yeah vtm blood lines and redemption ruined the sabbath so bad. they're not villians, but anti heroes.

[@turinturambar6234]

The plague of the sabbat comes in many forms: 1) The Baali : Demon worshipers who the inquisition hasn't been able to exterminate 2)Roads of Sin: All these roads are basically disney villain levels of stupid. 3)Tzimisce: They torture people for fun and which makes them ignore their mission. Without those three bastards corrupting the Sabbat it might actually be the closest thing to a good faction in Vtm since they'd focus on fighting Antidiluvians instead of being sadists.

[@ThePrimogen]

I definitely agree that the Tzimisce became almost cartoonishly incompetent at times, and the Roads/Paths are, many of them, extremely dysfunctional if you have an organization with a goal, so yeah absolutely. I think the Lasombra were so relieved to join the Camarilla where the weirdest folks are a bunch of D&D nerds and some loners hanging out in the woods sniffing each others' butts.

[@turinturambar6234]

​@@ThePrimogen ​ I think the smartest people in the sabbat are the Kiasyd since they're the intelligence agency of the sabbat somewhat like nosferatu for the camarilla.

[@ThePrimogen]

@@turinturambar6234 Indeed! They're also smart enough to not get involved unless they really have to ;)

[@muhammadedwards8425]

I do think that is mostly because players can't play Tzimisce correctly. I mean, most Tzimisce should respect the path of metamorphosis, meaning that to say "they torture people for fun" is not fair. They play with their food to be better at playing with themselves. No wait... Yes. They play with their food to better themselves. Also, the Sabbat don't like other Sabbat. They love other antitribu, but say the Path of Honorable Accord, or a Path of Heaven meets any Path of Sin; they would never not want them dead. It's more of an allies of convenience situation

[@politicaltroll8920]

Sabbat campaigns can be fun. Throw humanity, masquerade breeches, and politics out the window and just wild out.

[@raulmenendez2312]

The crusader aesthetic and Inquisition made me join the Sabbat. However I personally prefer to kill Camarilla rather than bother with humans. The purpose of Cains sword is to purge the antidiluvians & their Camarilla puppets.

[@politicaltroll8920]

Raul Menendez My favorite Sabbat campaign on KZbin, you might enjoy it: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aJPQdGerdrqpgNU

[@raulmenendez2312]

@@politicaltroll8920 Thanks

[@ThePrimogen]

Yeah absolutely! Both you and Raul present fun scenarios. I think the Black Hand (the Lost Tribe) are my personal favorite Sabbat factions because they have a clear goal and the will and discipline to see it through. I think all the chaos of the Sabbat perfectly reflects the impossibility of their mission; who's to say that the Antediluvians aren't sowing seeds of trouble within their ranks as well?

[@nonamegiven202]

Oh i'm always mixed on the Sabbat honestly, I like the core ideas/concepts of it but the sect overall doesn't do it for me. Maybe why v5's Anarchs are more my speed nowadays with how they are becoming a little bit more Sabbat-like. STILL the Sabbat have the Penders which are cool so there's that.

[@ThePrimogen]

Yeah you cand efinitely spot Sabbat influence in both the Anarchs and the Camarilla, esp. in the forms of blood cults and various unorthodox means of being vampires.

[@Huddyvonschland]

Amazing job as always! This made me hungry for some Lasombra lore!

[@ThePrimogen]

Oh my gosh, thank you so much Huddy! Hopefully your taste for the shadow will see fruition soon. ;)

[@SvartElric9]

I have been Storyteller for a Sabbat Chronicle for the last 5 years, it's a lot of fun, my Cainites are not completely in line with the Sect's policies, but they've grown powerful enough to keep to themselves... for the most part.

[@ThePrimogen]

A well thought-out Sabbat chronicle can be very fun! I've found walking the line between seriousness and farce very difficult with the groups I've played with, but I also haven't tried in the last couple of years. I think it's definitely a good idea not to start out with a bunch of shovelheads though; their chance at rising above the horrors and monstrosity of the Sword of Caine is pretty low.

[@yomogami4561]

given that the lasombra and tzimisce slew their eldest i wonder what effect if any the beckoning is having on the sabbat? i haven't been collecting the newer books.

[@ThePrimogen]

Well... about that... Hehe...

[@alecchristiaen4856]

An antideluvian is arguably as hard to kill as Cthulhu

[@jaystrickland4151]

Oh you sweet neonate of summer.

[@frankparker1191]

Sabbat Chronicles are greatness incarnate! Tzimisce, and Ventrue Antitribu, Brujah Antitribu, Gangrel Antitribu, Toreador Antitribu... Whatever the case maybe, these Kindred are the Monsters of Legend.

[@ThePrimogen]

They can be very rewarding! I've been in a few that... derailed very quickly though. ^^; At some point I want to try really hard to play a Path-follower.

[@SwedishDunedain]

A video about the Black Hand would be awesome! Great vid man :D

[@ThePrimogen]

For certain this is in the plans. :)

[@Glyff3083]

Sabbat, or, as my sefekhi calls them: the vampires im not conflicted about staking and baking.

[@ollaniuspersson5762]

As my Brujah says the only good cammie is a dead cammie.

[@ThePrimogen]

Yeah a lot of them really burned all their bridges of forgiveness right away, huh?

[@Demolitiondude]

My Samedi prince lucked out.

[@skeletonking4119]

What a wonderful topic to read / hear /listen . Enjoying hearing this topic with a careful listening And I know there’s no different between them and the Camarill rules . Very same You better be in your own

[@ThePrimogen]

Glad you liked it! :D

[@СлавикСычёв-л7п]

Nice overwiew, man.

[@ThePrimogen]

Thank you! :D

[@truesalubriseraphiel8227]

Do my sire, The Divine Samiel! True champion of God!

[@ThePrimogen]

I will return to VtM in 2021, and the Salubri certainly need to be revisited...

[@truesalubriseraphiel8227]

Ty dear brother, I look forward to such debates... as well as proving the right and might of Cain’s favorite childer

[@FacelessDeviant]

Oh. Is that the sweet sound of swedish accent that I hear?

[@ThePrimogen]

It sure is! No matter of years can wash it off!

[@FacelessDeviant]

I wouldn't have noticed if it hadn't been so alike how I speak. British vocabulary with american pronounciation.

[@krazyfan1489]

Nosferatu eh? wonder if Elias the Whale will get a mention?

[@ThePrimogen]

Alas Montreal by Night will not be covered in the near future, maybe at some point when I'm feeling daring XD

[@skeletonking4119]

6:00 also I do beg your pardon for asking. I believe there’s some of the sabbat new born vampire who after being buried and clam up form the dirt . Who didn’t found any human but instead it’s other vampires who been buried with him . That He deg them and drain them of what they have left ? Like a shark who eat it’s brothers and sister inside his mother Stomach. Am I right? And of course. The story of other new members of the sabbat who not being buried , instead it awake fast form his transformation. And TAKE the shovel form his/her Sira and Smash that MOTHERFÜCKER! And drain him dry . (He hey what he RIGHTFULLY DESERVES!!. I would do the same if I was him!)

[@ChrisHolman]

Gehenna proved the Sabbat right

[@ollaniuspersson5762]

Preaching to the choir bro

[@ThePrimogen]

The Sabbat was always right, even the heads of the Camarilla knew that. They just couldn't abide their methods, or that they, as elders, were targets of the Sword of Caine as well.

[@DarkAdonisVyers]

@@ThePrimogen As Beckett would say, the wrong things for the right reasons, but yes, that tends to go rather... underappreciated.

[@GerardoGutierrezGonzalez]

With mexican política as it is rigth now it's hillariously accurate to hear that the vampires in charge are way too dumb and wild to be part of the Camarilla even by malkavian standards

[@lolbots686]

*allright,let me tell you lot something about the sabbat and vampires as a whole. Pretty much all of us,in some form or another,suck ass as people,because we arent fully people anymore. Sure some of our ilk can keep there sanity together,hell if you want to take a crack at golconda,my advice would be to go for it if ya wanted to. But let me say this about the sabbat. The sabbat make carthage a beacon of goodness compared to what they do. Ive seen them and fought them. The sabbat are what you get when you have the anarchs lose all sense of morality and reason. Because the sabbat universaly want one thing. Freedom. They want to break the world,to break the chains and destroy the ancient jackasses whos still doubtless slumbering. Do i believe in gehenna? Not really. But i will say this. I survived my trip to india barely with my life intact. I saw reality break and scream in agony before my very eyes before i made my escape. And when all is said and done? If the sabbat get what they want? Not even gaia herself,the garou and fera or any supernatural upon this earth could compare the sheer rage and fury that is caine and those of and lived in his time. And if i ever saw such a thing...the only thing i would do is run.* -Gawain angelo,camarilla vampire of clan ravnos and his insight on the sabbat.

[@enexe6229]

vtm bloodlines and redemption antagonized the sabbath so fucking bad. according to the lore, they're not evil but anti heroes who want to destroy all 3d generation vamps.

[@Davlavi]

for the algorithm

[@DividedStates]

It is still a pity that the 5th edition (and Bloodlines 2) might have sparked/renewed the interest in pnp rpg, but for every single lore video since it is released is completely left out, capitalizing on the renewed interest in the pnp rpg and the game but not promoting it in its future course. I find that very unfair and eventually bad for the further direction of the game. You can't run a business on selling one and the same comprehensive anniversary edition every year, telling the same 20 year old stories about the new age millenials Angst of the end of the world over and over again. I think, the people should therefore discuss the new edition and its changes in greater detail if they like them in the end or not. Only through this discussion there is feedback to improve on... Leaving it out is like acceleration on ice, it lacks traction.

[@ThePrimogen]

The thing is, almost nothing in my videos are no longer relevant. V5 hasn’t retconned any of the old stuff, it’s built upon it. At least that’s the answer I got from Jason Carl when I asked him about it. If someone is new to the setting my videos are a window into what used to be. You also need to take into account that there is precious little lore to work with at the moment from V5. The books are purposely vague in the lore department because that’s the feel they wanted to go for.

[@DividedStates]

@@ThePrimogen I thing the beckoning and gehenna war affecting the Sabbat to leave its domains as elders around the world are compelled to move around is something worth mentioning... Calling it a window into the past, rather talking about obsolete gameplay mechanics such as the path of morality (which have nothing to do with lore and history per se) than the little bit of interesting new developments, is IMO however just a very convenient excuse to shit on the newest installment.

[@ThePrimogen]

​@@DividedStates The paths do have a lore connection though, the Black Monastery which is mentioned in among other titles Beckett's Jyhad Diary, as a place where several prominent members of the Sabbat gathered to research these alternative ways that related to the old Roads from the Dark Ages. The Paths do serve an in-lore purpose as they are alternative sets of morality that a vampire adheres to IC; sure, it's a mechanic, but so is Blood in the form of BP, or Hunger in V5. I don't think you can separate mechanics from Lore in a lot of these cases.

[@ThePrimogen]

You bring up a good point though; V5 needs support as well and there's not a lot of content covering its lore out there. I might do stuff covering that as well in the near future. Thanks for the feedback!

[@vicnedel02]

When you say "rite" as in the clandestine almost religious things vampires do, pronounce it as "right" as in "last rites" or "human rights".

[@ThePrimogen]

It’s spelled ritae in this context but thank you for that insightful feedback

[@obsessivelyobsessed5263]

Before I looked at the Sabbat as just "the bad guys" and now I see them as "why would anyone want to play a Sabbat Chronicle ever for any reason?!"