Van Aert Has A Solution To Pro Cycling's Safety Issues, But Will It Work? | GCN Racing News Show

[@gcnracing]

What do you think of Wout van Aert's suggestion? 🤔 And what do you think its impact would be? ⚙

[@coachg4810]

Not a lot. If you drop 5km/h, or even 10km/h to flat speed, it doesn't make anything safer. You'll still have DSs shouting in riders ears, you'll still see significant incidents on mountain descents, where we still see the worst injuries or even worse (RiP Gino Mader). Riding a bike fast, in a larger bunch, would remain pretty sketchy on modern roads. The stakes are so high, a slight drop in pace isn't doing much. Plus of course, if you had smaller gears, riders will work on a higher cadence, to compensate. Trackies can hit high cadences already, you'd soon see that being worked on with roadies.

[@profchaos9001]

I think it would make a bigger difference to limit the rims profiles, to max 20-30mm for example. Limiting the gears would give you scenes in sprints with cyclists going at ridiculously high cadences.

[@bertmortier7678]

Perhaps the best thing is to devise a points system where descents are awarded said points to determine how much gears should be restricted. You don't get in the way of sprinters in flatter races then, but you might be able to avoid deaths like Gino Mäder up in the mountains, and reduce the risk in hilly stages and some of the classics/monuments at least somewhat.

[@greghart6310]

Total rubbish, top speed moderated? No, sounds way too much like the formula E, garbage. None of the fatal crashes have been in final sprints, it's the descents that need proper plastic netting, pads.

[@fueledbypizza.]

It wont change much. Its the pressure of achieving results or getting cut / loosing your job. And the more sponsorship money is in there the more risk people will take. Ironically this increases viewership and the money spent on cycling. Maybe a better contract system / a salary cap or something in this regard has to change. Somehow there needs to be a way reduce the incentives for doing these dangerous things. Riders wont gamble their lives like this if the potential rewards would be less. (This is all on the rides side, of course organisers have a major part to play. The good old vuelta speedbump in a sprint final or a finish line after a decent are good examples.

[@newttella1043]

To improve safety: Better route planning like no downhill finishes, less technical finishes with less road furniture and sharp turns. Race organisers must ensure better padding on highest risk/speed corners and better tracking of riders on course (on body Spot tracker?).

[@b-manz]

Slowing it down IMO will make it unenjoyable to watch. You have some better ideas - some courses are so badly set out. Eg road barriers where roads split have no flag so riders mid pack can’t see it coming. Stupid stuff.

[@MattGrovesFTW]

Most of the worst crashes happen in relatively harmless areas because one rider serves slightly

[@newttella1043]

@@MattGrovesFTW I don't think those crashes can be avoided. At least get rid of factors that can be controlled.

[@MattGrovesFTW]

@ You’re thoughts are stupid though. Unless you want to host every race in Kansas.

[@AlbionSupreme]

Why would anybody watch that though?

[@chrisridesbicycles]

Dan, I guess you nailed it by saying racing is getting faster and faster on roads that are made to make you go slower. I would love to see a in-depth video about this talking to riders, teams, road planers and so on.

[@SirMrSinclair]

Yeah. We are not the audience to discuss this. This is up to the pros and teams itself since they should be the best guys and women to judge this idea

[@goldenghostinc]

Absolutely agree with getting the road designers and urban planners involved in this discussion.

[@geothunder1971]

loved seeing Wout trying to hug his crew after winning Superprestige Gullegem lol he was soooo muddy!

[@tomrees4812]

When I was a junior we raced on restricted gears (52x16 was the biggest you could get away with when they pushed the bike backwards between two lines to check - ah, the memories and feeling of excitement come flooding back!) - and the races were notorious for crashes😊

[@garymmx]

I hadn't heard about Gianni's passing. Definitely a legend in the sport and responsible for some excellent fundraising along with talent spotting. RIP Sir❤

[@jtalley8191]

We need data on crashes. What are the factors, where are they occurring? I would bet most wrecks are happening due to traffic furniture. The roads are increasingly dangerous. Race organizers could avoid a lot of this by bypassing small towns, going around them rather than thru them. Or have the races end at the outskirts of towns. I understand why organizers wouldn't like this because they want to travel thru towns to get more people along the race routes. However, in light of rider safety, can we not make simple adjustments? Crashes due to winding descents are going to occur, and I wouldn't eliminate them. Perhaps going with wider tires as a minimum of say 35 mm?

[@FT__Cool_Stuff______-of5pi]

I think the main categories are going to be: - While cornering on high speed descents (probably most likely to cause death) - While navigating road furniture - Sprint bumping and getting pushed into barriers - Mistakes/aggressiveness in dense groups Many of the crashes in the first two categories seem partly or largely out of control of the riders. Making the courses safer is an obvious solution though it might include significant rules/bureauocracy, and could significantly limit route choices, although I think a lot of us wouldn't care/notice as long as many of the most iconic routes remain (like the key grand tour climbs, the Milan-San Remo descent, etc.). Most of the crashes would indeed happen less often or result in less severe injuries if they occurred at lower speeds. Gearing is a simple idea but I think it'd only result in lower speeds in a few specific race moments. The more obvious solution is to make riders/bikes less aero. Adding back the 30-50 watts saved by aero improvements over the last 20 years would slow things down quite a bit

[@camillelively]

yes yes yes. always start from data.

[@emersonVZLA]

Rest in Peace, Gianni Savio 🖤

[@robbchastain3036]

Two quickies I'd recommend are larger tires, maybe those new Parelli 40s, and no computers so no distracting screens at speed. And body armor, of course. And after last year's hype for the Big Four in the Tour came to a halt because of one terrible crash, I am no longer anticipating anything other than the races themselves. One fall, major or rinky-dink, can end a rider's season or worse and it is all most unfortunate for them and the sport. And as a fan, I'm hopeful for better for each and every one of them. Racing life should be the start of a accomplished life, nothing less. And thanks, Dan and GCN Racing, for all your coverage as this new season is about to begin, woohoo.

[@stephennewton7644]

A big danger is road furniture.

[@gcnracing]

we agree, there is an increasingly high amount these days when roads are being built

[@robertallardice8119]

⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠@@gcnracing I think one of the problems is that a lot of Pros train on their own and have lost the art of riding in a big peloton, also not thinking about race tactics but waiting for the DS to give them instructions. There will always be crashes due to fatigue and mechanical failures. Public roads are not specially built race tracks.

[@jamesenloe2791]

And Jasoer Philipsen. In fact, that team seems to have a win at any cost vibe.

[@alinapopescu872]

Agreed. Moreover, road furniture doesn't move, which cannot be said about JP.

[@nahadoth2087]

But road furniture saves lives for the rest of the population. Its existence is just a reality cycling organisers are going to have to deal with.

[@witoldrudnicki8962]

Vouts proposal makes sense. He knows what he is talking about in contrast with the authors of many comments. What is more, reducing maximal speed in a bunch from 73 to 68 km/h reduces the kinetic energy by 15 per cent and, therefore, also statistically will reduce the injuries in eventual crashes.

[@pooochiemoomoos2150]

boring!!!!!!

[@JJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJ1234]

Yes, all the experts know injuries only happen because the kinetic energy is 15% too high, going 68km/h directly into a barrier feels great

[@jorjoebank8620]

@@JJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJ1234 5 kmh difference is no joke when going downhill, control on the bike is quite different

[@Paksusuoli95]

Wout knows about racing, not event planning and safety. Would you ask Verstappen or Vettel to engineer a barrier on an F1 track? No.

[@josealmeno]

@@Paksusuoli95 I would not ask them to design it, but I would very much would like to have their inputs to use on the design. User inputs are a valuable resource for engineering.

[@MaDiViL696]

I live in a small village in the south of France that had a few times the Tour De France going through (Village is called Berat). And last time they did, the mayor had some road furniture that made you do an S shape removed. Being a fairly flat area, they would have been riding in a big pelotons and that particular road furniture could be catastrophic for the riders.

[@BenKickert]

Gear ratio limitations would definitely lead to training for increased cadence in the sprint, which seems much more chaotic in a bunch finish than bigger gearing. If anything, regulations should focus on safe layouts and hardware for the finish.

[@Tibovl]

I don't think hight cadence is unsafe. I would assume sprinters don't usually use their biggest gear when sprinting either. At least, I don't and my gears are a lot smaller than what a pro cyclist has. And my power numbers are decent, max output of 19watts/kg, not like a pro sprinter, but better than the average cyclist.

[@DetroitJohnny]

It's worth a try; it's a low-cost, easily reversible change. Not as effective as improving course safety, though.

[@jkwest2009]

Kindred spirits, Dan. That's my expletive combo of choice as well. 😄

[@bitgeist_21]

HAHAHAHA!!! I loved Dan's bloopers at the very end!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! 😚😂😂❤❤

[@jeffojeda3161]

Please give us an update on the investigation of Muriel Furher. She was a cyclist who believed in the sport she loved. If the UCI wont give us updates on the death of one of their own, we need be informed about whats been found. So hard to find information.

[@asm673]

I live in Zürich and would love to see the UCI change the way it manages races and for Zürich to be safer for cyclists. That said, what is left to investigate? The accident happened in bad weather on a steep descent. The riders had no radio or telemetry leading to a long response time. I think the circumstances of the crash are all known but I’m much more interested in what changes will be made. In my opinion, the race route should have been changed due to weather. The riders should also have real-time telemetry and crash detection (which is a standard feature on basic GPS computers and watches).

[@daniellloyd100]

Hi Jeff. As far as I know, the investigation is still ongoing, and the UCI will only comment further once it's finished. I am hoping to interview David Lappartient about safety in the next few weeks, so stay tuned. Dan

[@FT__Cool_Stuff______-of5pi]

Ahem: speaking as a physics and safety expert: Gearing limitations would only impact a few moments of a race and would have a very small impact on safety. When it comes to riders' equipment, A FAR more effective method would be forcing the use of less aero equipment. They could make rules that essentially set the clock back in terms of bike and clothing aero design - these could easily add 50+ watts of resistance (and at full speeds, even more). This would slow down riders for the entire races - and have the biggest speed reduction during the fasted moments when there is exponentially more aero drag. This could have other benefits like keeping the cost of racing bikes lower and making racing a more accessible sport. Some other rules like increasing minimum bike weights a bit and perhaps even something like limiting cassettes to, say 10 cogs would have only a slight effect on crashes but might help keep costs lower

[@monochrome_linux]

So basically, 10 speed bikes with steel tubing and weighing 9kg like how it used to be back in the 90s?

[@davidkennedy4845]

@@monochrome_linux Nothing wrong with that. Its more so about the engine riding the bike than the bike that makes the difference.

[@Nonkel_Jef]

Limiting aero is definitely the way. Weight would only slow them down while climbing, which is relatively slow to begin with.

[@monochrome_linux]

@@davidkennedy4845 nothing wrong with it, i wasnt complaining tbh. good ol steel bikes. sounds fun tbh. would also drop the cost of entry quite a bit as well I think and thus the regular customers will get cheaper bikes as well. its a win win in my eyes atleast.

[@dquad]

If you limit the tech they will just put more effort into doping

[@ryankeels4661]

Sprinting on small gears is a nightmare and more dangerous because the group bunches up... L'abitibi's downhill sprint on junior gears was a nightmare lol

[@andrewlabat9963]

They pretty bunched up now.. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@AdamEwart]

As long as we're still able to option our own bikes with full cassettes, I see no issue. One of my hobbies is tackling long climbs at 8 or 10% in 56x11, and it would be a sad day if that were to end 😉

[@Koenepoentje]

I loved the ending of this episode! :D

[@erikv5382]

Currently road cycling is centred around getting to the finish as fast as you possibly can, without any rules or scoring for being responsible or cautious. This is similar to races in other sports which are mostly on closedof circuits. I feel road cycling has two possible routes: either it keeps its focus on speed alone, and make circuits safer by removing more and more possible obstacles, or introduce some kind of mechanism to make survival part of the racing concept. The latter could mean that there would be certain rules that create a racing timeline that requires more strategy (like sections where there is a maximum speed, or maximum number of riders riding abreast). Which sounds way more interesting to me, but is probably to complex for sponsors.

[@lepavis]

I think your cadence argument is accurate.

[@gcnracing]

😀

[@davidburgess741]

That's the easiest solution! Bring back the 13 or 14 tooth final position cogs on the cassetts and make jumps between gears even closer. It worked in Mercxx's era, and nobody would complain about faster climbing than back then. Simple.

[@DR_1_1]

What limit for chainring, 53?

[@turg84]

Random suggestions for slowing the peloton: - Go back to shallow wheels with 32 spokes? Wheel manufacturers wouldn't enjoy it... - Make helmets less aero? (perhaps not impactful enough) - Change how radios are setup so that every rider in the peloton doesn't get told to get to the front for the upcoming corner? (e.g. One way radios, one radio per team etc.)

[@madplanet3351]

Maybe speedbumps when descending the mountain passes too. 😂

[@matthewkalb7269]

I love the bloopers at the end👏👏

[@nikhilsharma4977]

You can fix things here and there, but the nature of the sport is the primary reason behind most crashes. If anything, it's surprising to me that there's not more crashes, given how closely knit a peloton is at such speeds and adrenaline levels. It's almost like saying, "oh let's have a street fight tournament, but we need to make sure every participant is uninjured"

[@PaulThomo]

I can't think how restricting gears is going to either reduce accidents, nor reduce their effect. The difference in speed is too small and it isn't speed in itself that is the issue at all. Almost all of them are down to rider error, overlapping wheels, fast decents (which isn't gear bound), poor road conditions a little bit, or just being too crowded as everyone wants to be in the same place.

[@Tibovl]

The entire peleton flew out of a corner in Basque last year because they were going way too fast. Overlapping wheels is also more likely the faster you go.

[@PaulThomo]

@@Tibovl I was watching that race. Restricted gears would have made zero difference. They were not going too fast - plenty of riders got around just fine. But it only took one who seemed to lose control and that had a domino effect as everyone reacted to that. It was more to do with a slightly bumpy road surface, which I highlighted as a problem that causes crashes. And sorry, the faster you go the less chance of overlapping wheels as it's more likely you want to sit behind the rider in front rather than just up close to them. Most overlapping wheel crashes are down to rider error (inattention often) - and speed isn't the problem again.

[@patriziovalentino8508]

They a fearing Pogys 56x11 on his new Rig

[@rudolphpyatt4833]

He’s not wrong. I say, go ahead and get drastic on the gearing: Mercx and his contemporaries were able to climb Mont Ventoux and sprint as fast as necessary with five or six speed freewheels and (I believe) a 53/39 front ring combo. Limit the gearing to that maximum (2x5 or 2x6) and maybe that will slow things down enough to improve safety.

[@trin08201]

52/ 42 would have been more common I think.

[@FrancisThurmer]

The smallest you can go on a 144mm B.C.D. was and is 41t . But actually every-one used 42t - as supplied by Campag across the counter ............ NOT 39t which is possible with the later 135mm B.C.D. Arguably more dangerous to pedal quickly than to GO quickly . A meaningless and irrelevant sugestion .

[@boudoir00]

Loved the bloopers at the end 😂

[@drmitofit2673]

In Greg LeMond's "Complete Book of Bicycling" page 158, he explains how the 53T chainring became ubiquitous. In 1977, junior racers were restricted to 52x15 top gearing, but it was rumored that 53×15 would pass the rollout test. It did pass, and all junior racers wanted a 53T chainring.

[@alexanderh.9230]

I like the idea about the gearing. And also there have to be Zone's when going downhill where you have to break to a real slow speed. Maybe going throw something left, right, left like in rally racing stages.

[@colinfisher2463]

They have tried slowed the peloton down, they allow too many press motorbikes into the peloton. They seem to stop the speed of certain riders at the most inappropriate times all the time.

[@rtz549]

Add a 3rd gear in the middle of the driveline to get around any gear restriction. Shaft drive or internal transmission or CVT type unlimited.

[@atlosass]

Loving the outtakes at the end!

[@DoNuT_1985]

The main problem are still routes and track design, be it downhill or sprint finishes. Gearing won't avoid the usual peloton pile-ups but these crashes are relatively mild in comparison to the barrier collisions and unfortunate descending fatalities we had in the last two years. That's where the real ugly stuff happens and capping speeds by 5 kph won't really change that. I don't know how much medical treatment and first responders played a role but we had crashes where trailing riders crashed and that wasn't immediately recognized, so crash sensors and/or features like the crash detection most head units have could be an improvement and mandatory for the World Tour. These work pretty reliably, my head unit or smartphone went off on every crash I had, luckily, I was able stop the 30-second timer on each instance so far...

[@Timberius]

One can spin at 200rpm and more, and very easily, especially if you're pro level. I used to reach 300rpm on fixie during spring training. Restricting the highest gear is only effective for long-term joint-health so that you can still walk without issue in your fifties. I'm not against the idea though.

[@scoresandflames]

Completely agree. We need to have the max size of chainrings AND the smallest cogs be limited. It would level out the field, it would provide way more action in the peloton and it would be more enjoyable for the spectators. This was a thing 30 years ago when I was racing (not at the tours, ofcoz), so why not today?

[@out_spocken]

So you want to penalise the big boys that can push the big gearing? What next....don't do mountains because the downhills are dangerous and inso then also penalising climbers. smh

[@scoresandflames]

@@out_spocken This is not about penalties, but about shifting priorities and allowing other skills to gain on importance - whilst making the peloton safer. Following your logic we should also allow doping, because some are willing to take the risks doping imposes.

[@recumbentrocks2929]

I think sprinting at a higher cadence because the cog sizes are restricted, is even more dangerous. Perhaps making the final sprint section as wide as possible would help.

[@jamescaldwell5]

I used to race a lot on road and track. Both of my serious accidents were caused by other cyclists directly in front of me. In a tight pack there’s nothing you can do if someone crashes in front of you. Responsible pack etiquette is extremely important. Maybe there needs to be international pack guidelines. Concepts of right of way, etc. I imagine if you’re used to riding on the left side of the road, your general pack flow might be the opposite than if you typically ride on the right.

[@larryt.atcycleitalia5786]

How many crashes are caused by what I call "numbers riders". Those are riders with great watts/kg figures but not much in the bike-handling skills category. I call 'em supercharged hemi-engines in shopping-cart chassis. They go fast, but no always in the right direction!

[@jonathanzappala]

It is worth trying out I think, no harm in that, maybe for a stage race. I'm biased though, I want a junior cassette for 12 speed haha. Otherwise (and probably either way, I am sticking with my 11 speed 14-28 cassette on my tri bike. It puts my mortal ideal cadence in the center of the block.

[@guicho271828]

This is what OSHA says. "Controlling exposures to hazards in the workplace is vital to protecting workers. The hierarchy of controls is a way of determining which actions will best control exposures. The hierarchy of controls has five levels of actions to reduce or remove hazards. The preferred order of action based on general effectiveness is: Elimination Substitution Engineering controls Administrative controls Personal protective equipment (PPE) Using this hierarchy can lower worker exposures and reduce risk of illness or injury." Motorsport (e.g. Formula 1)'s approach is to add chicanes. Elimination makes sure the hazard no longer exists. Chicanes remove the danger (speed). They also banned refueling to remove the danger of fire. In comparison, road barriers and gear reduction are substitutions, which change a material or process to reduce the hazard, thus has a lower priority.

[@Alfi-rp6il]

I think a more comprehensive view on the whole issue is needed as well as a more comprehensive safety programm. 1. Concerning speed: The most crashes when the bunch is compact occure in situations when several teams try to wind up pace e.g. before a hill, narrow part etc. is emerging or in the sprint lead out. To constrain the danger, there are at least four measures to be taken: - Abolish team radio or restrict it to one or two riders, the captain and the capitain de route. All arguments about safety in that context are bad excuses! - In the same context: Abolish powermeters in the race. For comprehensive studies a powermeter under the saddle like we often have it on track would do. - The restriction of gears as it is being discussed here, but more strict: 53/12 is enough. - Reducing the number of team members to 6, max. (e.g. grand tours) 7. Further measures have allready been mentioned: No downhill finishes, narrowing of finish sections, neutralization of the race in the buffet zone as well as 1 km before and after it etc.

[@rayk6251]

I'm all for safety, and glad to see Wout back. But slowing riders down, I say "good luck". The basic concept of racing is the faster racer wins. And I don't think slowing the riders down is the immediate answer. There are other things that could be done to make road racing safer. For instance, using barricades where there is a curbed island that splits the Peloton left or right. Or constraining fans at the top of climbs, so they aren't able to jump in front of the racers, or take them out by sticking cardboard signs in front of them. Just a thought.🤔

[@T_Mo271]

The big gains in rider safety will come from route selection and preparation. It's not the gears, it's excessive risks in race planning.

[@alphauno6614]

More speed = More Excitement! Let's get the riders and the bikes up to 100km/hr!!!

[@humanflame4271]

The problem of making cycling safer is MASSIVE. In my opinion making the gears more LOW would not work. They need to TAPER the side of the roads so that cycling's reputation doesnt FADE away

[@kramrenrut950]

There’s points in races where even on the biggest gears riders are spinning out

[@bongosock]

They should legislated tires - tire width and tread to guarantee a certain level of traction. The increased friction would slow the peleton down (a bit), decrease the likelihood of skids, and allow the riders to respond better to emergencies.

[@HeartShapedBox93]

Seems sensible. 53x11 is fine. We need to avoid riders attacking on fast downhills. They don’t want to - generally - but they’re under pressure to do so.

[@mrbinc0]

I appreciate that gear restrictions are widely unpopular and asking racers to go slower feels unnatural. So you see most people turning to other things like Road furniture and want to ignore speed as key part in the formula for safer races. Question, do we think accidents like Gino’s would have happened if the speed was 15-20% lower?

[@凸Bebo凸]

Guess you gotta do something, the real solution is just use bikes that handle well at those speeds but the peloton isn't gonna go back to steel/rim so slowing the bikes down another way makes sense. Maybe there will be a way to make disc mounts put pressure on both sides of the spokes and wheel in the future so the bikes don't get blasted to one side in heavy downhill braking.

[@rtz549]

would like to see some crank wars. Who can build a frame with the longest cranks.

[@FrancisThurmer]

"Racers" but more often non-cyclist ,strong-men in the 1930's (?) tried 9" cranks . They didn't work and we don't do that anymore because cycling is not a strength-sport and because Power is force TIMES speed .

[@TheCatwhisper]

the irony of cycling speed increasing on roads designed to slow traffic, removing sections / not riding on speed bumped roads and removal of other various street furniture, and barrier feet, would increase rider safety , more than gear alterations

[@woodtlimichael]

Thanks for all the news, Dan. Entertaining as always! Just sad, that I won‘t be able to catch all the live action from Switzerland where I live as both Discovery+ and Max are not available. 😢 Any alternatives?

[@evanshaw17]

90% of deaths and major injuries come from downhill racing on narrow icy oiled and extremely wet road. Change this! Reduce peloton size by using wider roads in towns less islands and road furniture and within 5k of end of race

[@dylanl9532]

I would love a training 14-40 training cassette that allows me to have lower gear to stay in zone 2 on steep climbs. I don't really care to pedal over 50km/h. But for racing, I still like to have bigger gears like 11-34.

[@juanmunster8988]

As far as i can remember, there has always been crashes in road biking. 180 riders riding shoulder to shoulder up and down mountain winding roads is just a dangerous sport. I guess they could improve the road surface. I do think that the barriers that are used to fence the roads in seem to be a hazard on itself. I want to imagine there could be a better designed barrier that wouldnt rip your flesh apart if you happened to crash into it.

[@space.youtube]

There will always be riders capable of descending faster than others. That won't change if you ban certain gear ratios, you'll just change when and where they'll take risks to gain positions. They'll brake latter and corner faster instead of overtaking in the relatively safer, straighter segments of a descent. To my mind, this won't make the sport any safer, in fact it'll make it much more dangerous. If I wanted to slow the sport down to make descending safer, I'd be more inclined to focus on when and where the greatest risk of crashing occurs. It's not on the straight fast bits of a descent, it's in the braking zones and corners. I think a better solution would be to get rid of disk brakes and wider, low pressure tyres (anything over 28-30mm on a road stage) that encourage later and harder braking on approach, entry and cornering. It may seem counter intuitive but increasing braking zones and the distance it takes to scrub off speed encourages a more cautious approach, necessitating earlier, more gradual braking than the late banzai braking synonymous with disk brakes and wide contact patches. In short, disk brakes encourage higher corner approach speeds and later braking. Rim brakes don't. The latter is safer, but it will always be a dangerous sport as long as it's raced on public roads.

[@flipper2gv]

I say enforced tire standards for wet conditions.

[@gcnracing]

That’s a valid point

[@daniels.2720]

My opinion: you could have them race on 'one-by' & they'd still have crashes...

[@unusualcomment9731]

I think limiting gear ratio could be a viable option since limiting top speed would lead to different end race strategies with slower yet longer sprints and longer sprints (for example 500m sprint instead of 200m sprint) would lead to fewer domestiques in the last hundreds meters. Race organisers could also setup stage finishes from slighty uphill to uphill with no downhill or flat finishes which would further reduce speed. Sprinters would not be happy at first but they would need to adapt from sprinters to punchers. Other ideas have already been told like increasing tire width or tire compound drag and increasing aero drag. This can sounds odd since amateur cyclist can relate to pro cyclist because they are using kinda the same gear but if you think about it F1s have nothing in common with consumer car yet million of people are watching it so why not taking this way for pro cycling?

[@letoatreides5165]

Just make the bikes slower all things being equal👍 make the tires safer but slower, job done

[@chuckrodgers4780]

In all form of racing speeds are controlled, whether it’s turbo boost, aero dynamics or gearing. In cycling the same holds true , give them 10 speed cassettes with 11-28 max gearing , stronger chains are a part of a 10 speed groupset. Max chain rings 52 . This will help control speed . You comment about sprinters , they will still sprint , but speeds will be lower, how many crashes have you seen during spring stages ? Too many !! Also course design can impact speeds including sprints . No one will like this comment but keeping racers safer is needed . Racing is racing it will still be exciting

[@thomasclougher2281]

Here's an idea, why don't the UCI demand safety equipment has to be mandatory. Equipment that would actively work to reduce the kinds of injuries riders are getting and dying from. To combat this though and the extra weight the riders would be carrying, open up the rules of fairings, aero and body cooling tech so the tech benefits. You could drop the minimum bike weight too (I know it's their for safety), but now the riders are protected, you could push the limits of the bicycle more. Then in lower and grass roots sports, so fairings don't have a massive effect and disadvantage those that can't afford it, just have 2 classes, fairings/aero vs traditional.

[@dad1ipms]

A typical case of technology damaging a sport, or hobby. The usual effect of increased speed is to rapidly increase the injury factor. My answer is why not try it ? Those with the desire to win will always take risks ( I was taken out in a crash once and found that some in the peleton were thinking of reporting me for dangerous riding from earlier in the event as I worked my way through a tight group - nobody came off though) Ahh yes in those days 45/52 over a 5 gear block was all we had !! One thing the gear limitations did was improve your route knowledge - the wrong gear set could be a disaster

[@TESTA-CC]

I'm all for Short block cassettes but the opposite, they should match those of the 90s, when cycling was a hard up hills and fast on flats.

[@ANTPS32CREWCHIEF]

Carbon bikes just lifted their geometries from steel bikes. They float all over the road and lurch right and left with each pedal stroke. Mandate 2" longer chainstays and longer top tubes.

[@CarloGman]

Make em wear downhill protection gear. Drag will slow them down, further falling won’t hurt as much as I

[@Bodkin_Ye_Pointy]

Slowing the bikes down reminds me of the problem they had in the Javelin competition in the Olympics. The distances the javelin was being thrown was too far making it dangerous for competitors on the track. So they changed the balance on the javelin cutting the distance by 30%. For bikes I imagine it would be down to increasing the weight and returning to steel frames.

[@mateagoston8145]

The javelin was flying out of the field and was endangering other athletes so redesigning it kept it with the field and solved the issue. But with cycling even with slightly slower speeds crashes will still happen. That way people will keep getting injured and passing away on occasions.

[@davidburgess741]

​@@mateagoston8145Usually crashing at lower speeds hurts less!

[@gam1471]

I don't think that using steel frames would make a difference. Riders were able to reach and sustain 30mph+ before the era of carbon bikes. I remember reading that with the advent of Reynolds 753 tubing, the TI-Raleigh team of the 1970s-80s era managed to get the weight of a racing bike down to 17 1/2 lbs (7.9 kilos). That's well within carbon territory.

[@mateagoston8145]

@@davidburgess741 True but that would mean that the ultimate solution for cycling would be only doing hillclimbs if maximal safety is the goal. With javelin throwing they reduced the risk from 100% to 0% by slightly redesigning the javelin. With cycling it wouldn't be from 100 to 0 at all. Maybe from 100 to 95 with gravel only gearing. 95 to 90 with MTB gearing and so on. The dnger will still be there. The question is where should we draw the line. It's everyone's personal preference. I myself like the idea of road cycling being an extreme sport, it being mentioned on the same page as DH mountain biking, rock climbing, wingsuit diving etc and not on the same page as golf, volleyball or swimming.

[@staff0flag]

Keirin racers use uniform bikes. It highlights cyclists' power and skill. Geear uniformity would permit the bike makers to continue getting exposure and allow the cyclist to demonstrate their power, skill, and fitness while slowing down the peloton. Gearing constraints could be done with an eye toward the course and its dangers. Multiday events could have day-specific gearing.

[@TheAugustinseptember]

I don’t think gear restrictions are the answer to pro peloton safety. I do think a simple way to slow the riders down and increase safety would be to have the UCI mandate that all racers use slower, stickier tires, probably the exact same tire for all racers. Much like how F1 handles their similar situation. This easy to implement change would make a huge impact on safety, while not decreasing the quality of racing. However, I’m sure there would be significant resistance to this by the tire manufacturers.

[@demand61]

I agree with the many comments on road furniture. However, i dont see how that will change for a 1 day event like a Tour stage passing through town. Van Aerts suggestion seems like something concrete. Would be interesting to see what alrernatives pop-up in the months to come

[@basengelblik5199]

Racing cars have rules too. 40mm tires would increase safety. Bigger helmets. Protective clothing on hips. Good gloves full finger. Slacker head angles for better stability and a slighlty longer minimun chain stay. Simple solutions that go a long way.

[@matthewbaynham6286]

When it comes to safety improvements I don't think just random guesses are the way to go. If you look at how the British government react to a major catastrophe they hold a public enquiry looking into all the different aspects of major catastrophe, looking into what went right and what went wrong, followed by making a series of recommendations that the government can ignore ready for the next time the same thing happens again. I think in order to look at safety in cycling we need to have a similar process where factors like the response times of ambulances, the amount of first aid training people have is examined, through to what actually killed the cyclist, where it was a curb to the head or falling off a cliff, these things have different solutions. Also did all the equipment work as it is suppose to, whether it's helmets tires, crash barriers, whatever. If someone dies on a alpine decent then the solutions to that will be very different to if they die in a crash in a sprint finish. If you want to slow the bikes down then you need an aerodynamic rule change considering that aerodynamics is the main reason modern bikes are going faster.

[@StacyODell]

I want to see a race series where everyone has to use the exact same equipment, and leave the results entirely up to strategy, luck, and fitness

[@multirider8997]

Most of the crashes happen in the peleton... it's not about the speed then but because they are bunched together... changes in gear ratio will just mean the bunch in the peleton will be a few kmh slower but it won't stop a rider touching his front man's rear wheel... it also won't slow riders much racing downhill... my tuppence worth😮

[@rskng]

It would definitely make descents safer. Descending with a 53x11, you would not try to close the gap going 70km/h.

[@brianrichards350]

It may be the case of no single change, but lots of incremental changes. Uphill sprint finishes, bypassing bottlenecks inside cities, reduction of riders on a team. Oddly, more races avialable on the same day could improve safety by forcing teams to choose which race to do.

[@justinclaspell4895]

Limiting gearing would just make everyone seated and in very aggressive aero positions at 130rpm. and honestly a bump at that speed in a corner or something else is way more sketchy as the back end of a bike gets lighter at higher rpm when corning aggressively or in quick elevation changes with corners especially in my experience / opinion.

[@ronradmer3573]

If we talk about racing in general, we can look at what they did in North America with NASCAR. When they had an increase in accident, they slowed the cars down which resulted in more competitive racing. Much more exciting for the fans. So perhaps slowing the bikes down would do the same. One idea perhaps is to increase the minimum weight of the bikes. In other words, make them heavier. Instead of making the minimum weight 6.8 kg how about making it 7.5 kg.

[@andymason8834]

If you changed the gearing for everyone,then it would still be the same results. Like people have said less traffic islands and tight bends ,plus wider roads at the finish might help . But your always going to get accidents,it's just the mature of the sport

[@GratzRides]

UCI could enforce a mandatory minimum bike weight of 30 pounds or 13.61 kilograms. Try riding a road bike FAST that weighs 30 lbs! Or, even heavier. Bring back rim brakes. Enforce a mandatory number of pull-ups and push-ups during the race. There are many options to increase safety but no one wants to be forced to ride slower.

[@ouy3Rambo]

I was looking at an interview with Sir Stirling Moss. He made a reference to drivers lacking "a certain code of ethics". Those drivers made things risky for the other drivers by intentionally or stupidly creating an unnecessarily dangerous racing environment. Racing is dangerous, but it doesn't have to be stupid. It's people. DB: So, the cars themselves were always a concern. Were there any drivers who were particularly intimidating to race with? SSM: Yes, because you have a certain amount of people you know are pretty bloody stupid out there. [laughs] So when you’re coming up towards - not going to say their names - but you know you’ve got to be careful trying to pass this man because he doesn’t drive with same code of ethics as I do. You make allowances for that. Normally the blue flag is quite good.

[@OpusXtr]

Juniors used to be limited to 13s I believe. I believe it was dropped 4 or 5 yrs ago. (I run one of the 10 spd 13-28 Jr cassettes on my trainer to get the close ratios)

[@gregmuon]

Max gear for juniors when I raced in the 80s was 53x15. I suppose it crept up over the years. 53x13 (13--21) would have been a typical top gear for seniors. With a 6 speed rear end, you really had to pick your gears carefully.

[@aasdfaasdfg9404]

Mandating wider tires would increase rider control. It wouldnt be enough by itself, but it would be a step in the right direction. Let say a minimum of 40mm. If that costs everyone 2-3w then thats just a bonus.

[@seanmccuen6970]

nah, these are the best riders on the planet, don't start hobbling their bikes.

[@Der_Richie]

40mm? Are you nuts or just thinking this is Gravel?

[@aasdfaasdfg9404]

@@seanmccuen6970 we are already doing that for safety with the weight limit. this is just more of that.

[@aasdfaasdfg9404]

@@Der_Richie riders already use 32mm tires of their own volition. 40 isnt that much more, not significantly slower, and its objectively safer.

[@71CMM]

@@aasdfaasdfg9404 How many crashes would it prevent?

[@tonyynot6688]

It’s called racing for a reason.

[@gam1471]

I'd say that street furniture is increasingly dangerous, installed at the whim of local councils. Here in the UK, as well as speed humps we have kerb extensions into the road for no apparent reason (surely the most dangerous of all). Any rider ploughing into one of these would at the least be seriously injured. Why not make it a requisite that if a town wishes to say, host a TdeF stage finish, then street furniture is removed and the course made safe?

[@carlito1777]

It needs better protection on tracks, better rider gear protection, no more assistance folowing the riders but some repair spots (to avoid increasing speed due to cars and make the riders be more careful with the bike), a crash détector to make intervention faster!!!

[@bsmith483]

Better decision making is all that is called for here. It's a risk reward scenario and it always will be. "Competitive" cycling requires aggressive lines and speeds to win.

[@mommamooney]

I like that pro cyclists are chiming in on solutions to the problem. Athlete but in its important

[@hrca85]

Radio ban. All the riders are constantly shouted at to get to the front and the nervosity in the peloton gets needlesly too high which leads to mistakes and crashes. Let them race with their own heads, not like marionettes of directeurs sportif.

[@rangersmith4652]

But without radios there would be more inclination for team cars to be in the mix to facilitate messages to riders. I can't see that being a good thing.

[@marcpost4034]

@@rangersmith4652Didn’t seem to be an issue before radios.

[@ridley8340]

Always considered this the way, makes for more exciting racing as well when the road captain has to try and know whats going on and there is likelihood of an interesting break developing without DS having a TV and knowing who is ahead and exactly how hard they need to ride to bring them back.

[@HeidiLandRover]

@@marcpost4034 Jesper Skibby would disagree :-)

[@KevinSpinks-x2w]

Thanks to radios riders can notify others when a rider flys off the course into a ravine managers can inform riders of potential hazards that develop ahead on the course. If the UCI was more concerned about course prep and safety than sock heights most of the injuries could be avoided.

[@alancritchley8835]

Handlebar bag. Not only aero restricting. Does away with feed zone disasters. Might slow all riders down.

[@erichennuy5413]

There is more than 10 km/h speed @ 120 rpm between 53/11( 72 km/h) and 55/10 (83 km/h). 10 km/h in a peloton descent can make the différence concerning safety. Look at the carshes of Van Aert in Belgium and Vingegaard/ Evenepoel in Spain : Crashes at very high speeds in peloton. During many years 53/11 was the biggest ratio, remember!!!

[@DittersGustav]

None of those crashes where pedaling at top speed due to gearing. Did you watch the videos? Vingegaard was coasting down a descent and crashed because of bad road surface before the corner, wout was due to contact in the peloton, they where in a long straight.

[@erichennuy5413]

@@DittersGustav Of course at such speeds you are coasting, but the larger the gears, the more easily you reach such speeds! The speeds in the pelotons are getting higher and higher, no one can say the opposite, Van Aert's proposal to limit the gear ratios is going in the right direction.

[@neilhyland1163]

go back to low profile rims and change the frame dimension rules back to round profiles would slow the riders down

[@PedalToProgress]

Why don’t we just add SOME padding/skidding protection to the cycling kits? Crashes would be substantially less damaging. (Obviously not talking about 🏈 level padding here!)

[@PedalToProgress]

4:45 however if you want to slow things down, you could add some thicker padding to increase drag 💁🏻‍♂️

[@japphan]

No radio communication is the best feasible way to improve safety. Sports directors send riders back and forth too much, creating chaos. Yelling at riders who have nothing left to help with a sprint train. Sure, there are small things you can do. Mandatory wider handlebars might improve handling a bit. Things like that. But one thing that should be considered is money and prestige. Less of those things, and safety would improve. Risk-reward. Reduce the reward, means fewer will take the risk.

[@danielmisse7463]

this is exactly how youth riders have been regulated until a couple years ago: the maximum gear ratio authorised is that which gives a distance covered per pedal revolution of 7.93 metres something like that for safety reasons? Yeah why not. we'll see top sprinters come up with 150rpm spinning, hopping and bopping about on the saddle which could lead to even more crashes .. or not.