Van Halen III - Is this a bad album?

Rock Daydream Nation is joined by David Botas (The Contrarians) to discuss one of the most divisive albums in the Van Halen catalogue "Van Halen III"...Did a new lead singer Gary Cherone (Extreme) equate to a new lease of life for the band both artistically and commercially?...we do a retro review of the album and ask the question..Misguided or misunderstood?
‪@thecontrarians2438‬ ‪@VanHalen‬ ‪@VANHALENARCHIVE‬ ‪@VanHalen765‬ ‪@VanHalenVault‬ #vanhalen #vanhalen3 #garycherone #eddievanhalen #sammyhagar

[@GrabAStackofRocK]

Both. The lack of Michael Anthony was very misguided, but largely this album is very misunderstood. It was the album of my spring '98. Sounded great in the car.

[@drewrose374]

I love this album, It's definitely an outlier, it's a little dark and very different. I definitely feel it's understood. Like when Sammy joined, Eddie wanted to explore more melodic songwriting that Dave's carnival barker vocals would be a challenge. Whenever a new Van Halen comes out it's expected to be a fun party record and that is unfair to Eddie who was always evolving. I agree a different producer would have cleared up the mumbled, scream-y vocals and muddy-ness. and I totally agree that the absence of Michael Anthony is apparent. Love the songs Without You, From Afar, Once and What I Want. The tour was fantastic! and maybe if Eddie saw how the band worked live with Gary before going into the studio the writing may have took a different turn. I give it a 7/10

[@GatorMcKluskyRules]

David really nailed the vocals issue. Gary is a great singer but the producer/engineer really let him down.

[@RockDaydreamNation]

Agree...production on the album is not flash

[@JohntheMusicNut]

Great show David and Peter! Thanks for spotlighting this album. I agree with a lot of your points. While I admire the experimentation of this album, most of the songs are way too long and the production did not do the very talented Gary Cherone any favors. I agree that Eddie's lead vocal on "How Many Say I" sounds like Roger Waters. I forgot how catchy "Without You" is and this along with "Fire in the Hole" and "Ballot or the Bullet" are my favorite tracks. I don't believe that it touches the albums with David Lee Roth, including A Different Kind of Truth. However, it is different and interesting. I would certainly rank this over the more immediate Balance which I really enjoyed when it was released but now comes off as mediocre.

[@RockDaydreamNation]

Appreciate your feedback John!...Balance > III....some folk in our VH best of show...rated Balance as No 1 (which I was kind of surprised)...

[@davidbotasII]

Right above III in my ranking, OU812 is an album I’ve been trying to have grow on me lately (it isn’t overall bad). VHIII remains the only Van Halen album I don’t want in my collection. Also, despite conventional wisdom, Balance & A Different Kind of Truth both surprised me with how strong they are today. Glad to hear from you, John!

[@domielakrabi3276]

Fine you did a show on VH III. I agree with some of your points guys and yes the record is not among their best. Nevertheless I think it has some good songs. It's simply different and should maybe be regarded as an Eddie solo record (issued as VH to sell better?). It lacks some of the typical VH hooks and simply wasn't what we expected. Let's say the content is definitely better than the cover ;) I must admit, I'd rather reach for III than for "A Different Kind of Truth" (btw both albums are very/too? long).

[@inmyhouse11]

VH was never the same once Eddie introduced keyboards into the music and when DLR left.

[@RockDaydreamNation]

I don't mind so much the keyboards (as support instrument) but change of singer was deadly!

[@HenryBonesJr]

I thought the VH3 album had some interesting ideas, but it didn't come together. I don't know wth they were thinking with "How Many Say I." It sounded like they were trying to channel George Gershwin, etc. but it just didn't work. Cherone was/is excellent in Extreme, but not Van Halen. He just really never fit. There are rumors that Mitch Malloy was briefly considered to be the singer. Imho, he wouldn't have fared any better. Allegedly, some the material that was being worked on for the follow-up to VH3 ended up on Cherone's Tribe of Judah project entitled, "Exit Elvis." You can find that album online. So, possibly, that album might give some insight as to the direction. When Sammy came back with "It's About Time," etc. I kind of wondered what could have been. I wasn't a fan of A Different Kind of Truth. It didn't have Michael Anthony and Dave's vocals weren't the best. I completely understand Ed wanting his son in the band. But, he should have kept Michael Anthony in the fold and put Wolf on rhythm guitar. I was lucky enough to have seen Van Halen live twice on the Balance tour. It was my very first concert. My brother took me to them. Ed was in top form. Everyone was great. You would have never guessed that there were problems going on behind the scenes. I remember Sammy climbing the very large speaker stack at the venue and getting stuck. He kept yelling at Ed to help him get down. They were laughing their a**ses off. Ed was definitely the Mozart of our era. On a side note, if you haven't heard "Ted Templeman Van Halen Sessions" you should definitely check it out. It would be cool to see some of those songs on a VH1 collectors set (if it hasn't been done already). I bet there is tons of cool stuff in the vault. I believe it was Michael Anthony who said that they recorded all their performances so that they could go back and evaluate stuff. What survived and where the footage is... who the heck knows.

[@RockDaydreamNation]

Great post. Thanks for this!...I will check out the VH sessions...

[@HenryBonesJr]

@@RockDaydreamNation​ I didn't know this, but a song that Ed did with Mitch Malloy (during the Sammy Hagar / VH3 transition) is on KZbin. See: "Van Halen With Mitch Malloy It's The Right Time." A guy called Tony Walker posted it.

[@miaajaniss]

The album is ok, not quite as bad as people make out. I do disagree with some things you said though. Without You is the most memorable song on the album for me and that chorus gets stuck in my head so i can see why it’s the first single, Fire In The Hole is pretty good also, One I Want and Once are ok. The rest is truly forgettable especially in the case of songs like Josephina which is bad and listening to a drunk Eddie on How Many Say is just truly embarrassing. The album is 20 minutes too long also i agree. 5/10

[@georgemathie8123]

I think it's a lost opportunity and also a case of bad timing to bands such as Van Halen just didn't fit the late 90s soundscape where alternative rock, hip hop and nu metal were gaining huge popularity and so yeah I think it's misunderstood

[@RockDaydreamNation]

Thanks for the comment. 90 s were not kind to a lot of bands...VH was one

[@gwts1171]

I would rather listen to "III" than "Balance", "A Different Kind Of Truth", or "For Unlawful Crappy Nutwedge".

[@miaajaniss]

Lol

[@domielakrabi3276]

I definitely agree with you on "A Different Kind of Truth"

[@DonJoeBob]

Upon it's release I really loved it, even bought it for my brother in hopes he would love it too but he didn't, lol! My opinion of it now though is much more tampered and I recognize it has issues but it's a fascinating sidestep from one of rock's biggest voices.

[@justinwhite9689]

I like it, but at the time everyone thought Dave was coming back and when he didnt....no one cared. This is what I thought as well. I liked fire in the hole back then but I didn't get the album for another 20 years after release.

[@RockDaydreamNation]

I came to the 3 album much later as well....was definitely not in the day...

[@aae7583]

I am a 90s kid AND I LOVE 90s Van Halen. I randomly think about 90s Van Halen and look them up from time to time. Three lead singers and they had hits with each one. Plus, they had the look and aesthetic for the 90s. I remember them as a kid in the 90s. They were all over MTV in the 90s. Eddie looked great. Alex Van Halen is EVERYTHING. A big problem is too many people refused to let Van Halen evolve. They had a new young singer with Cherone, that would have been relatable to the young millennial audience of the late 90s. WITHOUT YOU was a great song and video. Both were very popular. So not sure what the two of you are talking about. The video itself was very popular. The issue is, Van Halen extended over 20 years, so three generations (Boomers, X, and millennials), Each have their own "Van Halen time" , that is their favorite. Boomers adore DLR and DLR only; Gen X adore DLR but still really love Sammy: Millennials grew up on Van Halen music in soundtracks and movies and A LOT of MTV and cable television and the three Van Halen singers. Van Halen changes for the better with the present time but, their audience will only hang on to their "Van Halen time". Dirty Water Dog is a great song and it is funky. This is my personal fav from 3. Random note: I have always thought of Michael Anthony as the Van Halen vocalist. And yes, they could have gone ahead as a trio. But no one would let it down. Without You was a HIT!! ummmm what are talking about? the song went #2 and the video was great. Fire in the Hole is not better than Without You. Without You is a great song, with a great hook and the melody and harmonies are on point. Van Halen 90s Regrets: 1. I do wish Van Halen did a full length album or EP with Dave. I read on reddit , the album would have been a mix of F.U.C.K and Women and Children First. This potential album would have probably been my favorite. 2. Dave should have put aside his ego and hurt feelings and done the videos for "Can't Get This Stuff No More" and "Me Wise Magic". Dave should have put out a video for the culture. DLR, did deprive the 90s of two Van Halen music video, which is upsetting, even till this day. Van Halen would have probably won Video of the Year at the MTV Video Music Awards. 3. Van Halen , I wish they did one more album with Gary. Everyone listens to Van Halen. Late 90s. Boy Bands and Britney Spears were incredibly popular. However, alternative music was VERY VERY strong and charted strong. It would have been nice to have Van Halen around as well with their energy and music. However, think Van Halen slowed down because Eddie became ill. But the facts are, they were still VERY VERY mainstream.

[@micolsen9824]

It lays there.

[@romangarcia608]

i bought it when it came out and saw the tour because of my love for the VH brothers and the band overall but never really liked it and the crowd for this tour was a (small) fraction of what showed up for Van Hagar. there’s a LOT of problems with this project/album, the most glaring to me is how Gary tried to sound like Sammy instead of sounding like Gary.

[@billywilliams8753]

It's pretty good. Thet just went in a little different direction on it

[@keithleeuwen877]

5/10 works but I do not hate it by any means.

[@DavesArtRoom]

Also, on tour Gary sang both eras of Dave and Sam songs. Sammy did a horrible job attempting to sing Dave material. VH definitely survived the grunge era.

[@GeorgeSanders-d2s]

The problem with van halen 3 is its not the van halen album the fans wanted. Im a diehard roth fan. Didnt care for sammy. When dave left i got his solo records and skipped sammy I listened to them later. But the fans waited ten years to get new music with roth. And sammy leaves after balance and twister soundtrack humans being and we get the best of with two new roth songs me wise magic and can't get this stuff no more. And a reunion at the mtv awards. We thought were getting roth back. And what do we get. Cherone and van halen 3. Once we heard new music with roth. And the original band. Nobody would have had a chance to succeed in that band. The fans felt ripped off and they were like nope were not giving this a chance. And it didnt sell. The songs were too long. One was like 8 mins. The album was over a hour long. alex was going thru personal issues. And didnt play on the album. So basically eddie played drums guitar keyboard and bass and sang on one track it was a eddie solo album. And gary cherone basically tried to sound like hagar and move like roth. And the lyrics were cheesy and it just wasnt a good album. To me daves album after the reunion the dlr band with Johnny 5 was better than vh3. So they cant say dave couldnt sing then. Its just after the reunion with roth. The fans weren't gonna accept anyone else. So the album was doomed from the start. The fans didnt want cherone.

[@TheVaccineMachine]

After decades of trying to like this album, I can say with total certainly that it is bad.

[@RockDaydreamNation]

Thanks for the comment...a lot of folk agree with you there

[@jamesjeffers4390]

I don't know why people think you need to have hooks. I'm not a huge fan of this album, but it's not for that reason. And the whole idea that Van Halen has to be this specific thing because that's how they were in the 80s is just a seriously flawed way of looking at art. This album is VERY ugly. It's not always easy to listen to. But that's kinda what Eddie was going through. If you look into his life at the time, he was just in a realllly dark place. And this album showcases that. For better or worse, this is an important album in Van Halen's catalog because it details a time in their history. A very sad time, but that's life, and this album makes them feel like mortals rather than the gods we have always thought them of. All that said, I love this video and really appreciate your take. I'll be checking out more videos by y'all

[@RockDaydreamNation]

Thanks James...appreciate your thoughtful take of the album...cheers!

[@DavesArtRoom]

Saying Gary sounds like Sammy is overstated. That’s an insult to Gary. Cherone was much better than Sam. Roth and Cherone are much better lyricists than Sammy. Sam is largely an adult contemporary immature horrible lyricist. I actually liked VH 3. I liked Balance and the Learing to See Sammy song. Also, I don’t think Alex was in substances any more.

[@RockDaydreamNation]

Thanks for the comment and watching the show...I stand by my opinion that Gary's vocals (tone) on this album on quite a few tracks are in the same ball park as Sammy....

[@iancocks9408]

Makes the worst albums of all time list. cherone sounded awful on it too. The 90’s was a strange time for classic hard rock and heavy metal bands. Mostly different and average albums released from 1993 and after.