HAWK AND TROWEL VS PAN AND KNIFE

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Vancouver Carpenter

Vancouver Carpenter

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 757
@KenCharlesTheGreat
@KenCharlesTheGreat 5 жыл бұрын
As a painter in the US I've mixed and spread tons of hot mud. I've never used a hawk & trowel but after watching your videos I'm going to start. One thing I never realized is how precise you can load a trowel or knife, avoiding "squirt out". Not to mention cleaning a hawk is so much easier to clean than a pan with all it's corners !
@1stFlyingeagle
@1stFlyingeagle 2 жыл бұрын
That is called mud control. Practice is key. 🙂
@yooo46
@yooo46 Жыл бұрын
The pan does suck to clean. I was just thinking that
@wll1500
@wll1500 8 ай бұрын
The secret is to always have a bucket of water nearby with a brush in it. And when using setting mud, get any excess out of your pan and into the trash IMMEDIATELY as soon as it starts kicking off so that it will still come out with water.
@lyonanddebanderson4418
@lyonanddebanderson4418 2 жыл бұрын
As a 4th generation carpenter I was always taught with a hawk & trowel, recently I started to turn to 12" knife & hawk for better control. After watching this I understand why (front wheel drive v. rear wheel drive clicked). I got it, thank you-love your channel. I was the family black sheep & went into public safety for 25 years, I'm now back on & playing catch up, those skills are parishable.
@jasondashney
@jasondashney 4 жыл бұрын
I worked with a french guy who used a hawk and amazingly runny mud and he was a goddamn wizard. He worked fast like one of those Japanese restaurants where the cook is at a grill right at your table and does fancy tricks with the knives. Never seen someone have to sand less. He'd go really fast and leave almost no extra mud.
@johnkutsch7411
@johnkutsch7411 3 жыл бұрын
As a plasterer, we have a couple of sayings. A good plasterer can lay on water. Also. A good plasterer knows not too.
@michaelbasic6947
@michaelbasic6947 5 жыл бұрын
I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that most people watching your video (in order to learn) aren’t professionals. We are homeowners trying to beautify our homes. That may not be your intended audience but I’d bet most of us are just that. I love the videos and the sense of humor you bring and thank you for the hard work and time you and your cameraman spend on these videos. If I may speak on behalf of homeowners watching this video we come here to learn how to patch door knob holes, repair settlement cracks, cover old phone line outlet box holes, and the like. I’ve done lots of drywall work but have never picked up a full sheet of drywall. I have used both conventional and light weight setting type and drying type compounds and both paper and mesh tape. I also understand trowels to be a plasterer’s tool and a knife to be painter’s tool. In my opinion, learning to move mud around is much easier using a knife. That’s likely because I’m never really moving much mud around by comparison. If I ever do large stucco work I would certainly buy a trowel. Thanks again.
@vancouvercarpenter
@vancouvercarpenter 5 жыл бұрын
Actually, homeowners and DIY is my intended audience but I don't mind the pro's hanging out either.
@waynemiller6070
@waynemiller6070 5 жыл бұрын
When I had some drywall and taping etc. to do I watched a number of videos from Laurier Desormeaux. After watching him work with a hawk and a trowel I went and bought them. Never looked back. I'll never use a pan again. Ha. I paused the video while I typed the comment above. Nice credit given to Laurier.
@timcaldwelljr6088
@timcaldwelljr6088 4 жыл бұрын
I got started with pan and knife 17 years ago when i was 17. My boss made it look so damn simple lol. I went to coat a seam in a closet thinking shit, this is gonna be a piece of cake. I went to coat that tape and all my mud just fell all down the wall like a typical fuckin rookie lol. Tried to use a hawk and trowel about 15 years later, thinking shit, its gotta be pretty fuckin symilar to the pan and knife, this is gonna be a piece of cake lol. This time, as soon as I loaded up my hawk, I had my trowel and I was standing there trying to figure out how I was gonna attack it lol. It was so dam awkward I dropped the hawk and trowel and told the guys give me my fuckin pan and knife lol. Cant teach an old dog new tricks i guess haha
@davekintz
@davekintz 5 жыл бұрын
Thank-you for answering my question with a video. Been thinking of trying a hawk and trowel. One note on blobs falling off the edge of your knife; I trim the mud off the edges of the blade with the pan before applying. Fewer blobs, and makes it easier to feather-out.
@ericchambers2667
@ericchambers2667 5 жыл бұрын
I'm a Union drywall finisher when using your 12 inch blade if you don't want the mud to fall off the blade after you dug out of your pan a blade full of mud swipe both edges of your blade before applying to the wall
@palewriter1856
@palewriter1856 4 жыл бұрын
One swipe's enough - the bottom one - if you're talking horizontal seams - but between you and me, I notice you left the "hurts my wrist" alone. Kind of you, chuckle chuckle....
@ELT-canada
@ELT-canada 3 жыл бұрын
can you check my Instagram. I'm very professional, only check and follow me if you want ELT Taping
@badmofo350
@badmofo350 5 жыл бұрын
As a former tile installer I'm tempted to try a trowel for mudding drywall. Although a flat trowel takes more skill than a notch trowel. I'm a cable contactor now and somehow I was chosen as the guy who they send out to do all the repairs when our guys put a hole in a wall or step through a ceiling. I'm working on a ceiling repair now. I've got it replaced and taped but now I have to blend a circular brush pattern in the mud. It's a 3 sq ft area I'll have to do a new texture on and try to blend to the surrounding pattern. I hope the pattern and the color matches well enough to satisfy the homeowner. Keep up the good work man and thanks for sharing all the valuable knowledge👍
@nickcandiano9638
@nickcandiano9638 3 жыл бұрын
Haha! I love the “mysterious third taper” - that’s me. I never knew a trowel or a pan existed until I met other tapers who showed me those tools. Hawk and knife baby, hawk and knife.
@josephcote8634
@josephcote8634 3 жыл бұрын
my father taught me to tape with a knife and coat with a trowel but always use a hawk. He would just stick it to the wall with all the mud on it while he reached for his tape and just scrape it off after. Got a lot of jobs done fast.
@whatyouwontseeontv8266
@whatyouwontseeontv8266 3 жыл бұрын
That's me as well.
@chriscolameco6850
@chriscolameco6850 3 ай бұрын
I’m a hawk and skimming blade guy. Like I use a 4” knife to tape. And then a 7” and 12” skim blade the way most people would use a knife or hawk
@deerslayerCO
@deerslayerCO 4 жыл бұрын
That's why you cut both edges of the knife on the pan so you don't get mud spilling off the edges of your knife its quick and easy, but all the same its preference on what you like to use and what works best for you
@HStiz420
@HStiz420 2 жыл бұрын
I have been working on a job the homeowner tried to fix and have been having to reskim entire tape lines. I was lucky enough to stumble across your page. I have probably watched a dozen or so of your vids in the last couple weeks. doing so has actually taught me enough tips I didn't know to make the experience tolerable. tomorrow I will be purchasing myself a Hawk and Trowel for future jobs like this. (I am a painter by trade, but often, demolish, construct, drywall and repair things before Painting occurs). thanks for taking the time to make these videos, they have saved $ on potential mistakes I avoided because of your content.
@stargateproductions
@stargateproductions 5 жыл бұрын
In my hawk hand I also carry a 4 or 5 inch tapping knife for feathering and other work. I simply place it between my pinkie and ring finger. Best of both worlds. I think the hawk and trowel is more ergonomic than a pan and knife. We call 8-12 inch taping knives paddles here, good for select situations but I wouldn't want to do a whole job with one. Great video!
@RabidFace
@RabidFace 5 жыл бұрын
In one of his other videos he actually says he normally carries his 6" knife in his hawk hand 😊
@aaronbrown2966
@aaronbrown2966 5 жыл бұрын
same here.. couldnt of said it better myself
@user-cf1se1kk5x
@user-cf1se1kk5x 5 жыл бұрын
@ stargate...I do the same thing except with a 6 inch, it supports the weight of the mud on the hawk, plus I can access the knife really quick to cut my edges. I was taught this way 17 years ago, and still do it. I don’t see many guys that do this,.. glad to see I’m not alone haha .
@natejm
@natejm 5 жыл бұрын
I’ve been cutting my teeth on both practical and visual learning as far as drywall install, mudding, taping and finishing goes. The job I’m on has been hard to paint because the drywall guys broke every rule in the drywall book of things to do... it’s making my life hell. Fortunately though I’ve been watching these videos and videos like this to hone my skills and try my best to make up for a bad hire when it comes to drywall finishing. In my painful travels, I have used both pan and knife, and hawk and trowel. I must say that while I’m no expert in either method, and I have to agree that there is a time and place for both, so like myself, I would say to other beginners, learn both ways. It can’t hurt to have a new skill set in your back pocket... Thanks for taking the time to make it these videos, they’re proving to be very useful to me.
@gregoryvschmidt
@gregoryvschmidt 5 жыл бұрын
I've done a lot of mud work with both knives and trowels, pans and hawks and never really thought about the push pull aspect. But you are absolutely right about the "problems" related to each technique. But now I'm retired so it doesn't even get to go in my tool trick bag, shoot
@colinglidden5702
@colinglidden5702 4 жыл бұрын
I'm a rare hawk and knifer...been using the trowel more often though...great tips, as usual.
@ToolsWithAdrius
@ToolsWithAdrius 4 жыл бұрын
I use a trowel and a pan.
@Nimbleatthat
@Nimbleatthat 4 жыл бұрын
I use a hawk and pan
@joncrosby8988
@joncrosby8988 4 жыл бұрын
My hawk uses a knife.
@dotChrollo
@dotChrollo 3 жыл бұрын
I used to work with an old school Seabee (Naval Construction Battalion), he retired early this year at the ripe age of 75, and he was a die hard hawk and knife guy. I'm not convinced he even cares about the pros in cons, because every time I've asked why he uses that combo, he just told me it was better. But that's it.
@asinger261
@asinger261 3 жыл бұрын
Same
@dustinpomeroy8817
@dustinpomeroy8817 4 жыл бұрын
Over the years the best finishers I've witnessed have used hawks and trowels,watching this one crew in particular was like watching a ballet,and when they were done you couldn't tell there was a joint in anything ,and we are talking about 3500 square foot houses,with tall walls and cathedral ceilings.They actually used knife and hawk up until the final coat.They always took seems out to about 16 inches and butt seams out to about 4 foot.
@idmhead0160
@idmhead0160 9 ай бұрын
Ben really is a class act at teaching this stuff. He really pays attention to what he is doing and is very observant and has great attention to detail and is able to pass that along to others. This is true in his drywall videos as well as his skate videos. Thank you for all you do Ben.
@HBSuccess
@HBSuccess 5 жыл бұрын
V.C. - I learned with pan and knives (from crazy French-Canadians no less) - the trick to not having the mud blob off the edges of your knife - you have to "back" the corners of the knife, and then also scrape the back of the knife before hitting the wall/ceiling. Basically load your knife just like you do out of the pan - but then you turn the PAN upside down and scrape off the corners of your knife with the pan edge, then back over to scrape the back of the blade. That essentially loads the knife in the middle and eliminates the blob-overs. Then I spin the pan around. It's a lot of pan-spinning and it is tough on the wrists when it's full of mud- but to me it's second nature and pretty fast. I've tried using a trowel/hawk and while I see the advantage in certain instances- but I need a lot more practice - I'm wanting to drag instead of push. And at this point I'm an old dog/no new tricks LOL. Good video as always - keep 'em coming.
@richardshort4587
@richardshort4587 5 жыл бұрын
Tioga Fretworks I’ve found with the hawk when I’m watching my other hand spreading the mud my other hand drupes and the mud slides of the hawk where as with the pan I don’t lose it.
@C.S.Sensei
@C.S.Sensei 5 жыл бұрын
The best hangers I've ever worked behind are Canadians and Hungarian, fast too. That was years ago in Florida. Good ol' days.
@samkheniser4286
@samkheniser4286 4 жыл бұрын
Even as a DIY rookie and new homeowner, I find it easier to get a nicer level finish with a trowel. Love your videos! Thanks for all the content!
@drywaller420
@drywaller420 5 жыл бұрын
I've been running a knife and pan for 20 years and no carpal tunnel for me. When you pull the mud out of the pan you should wipe 1 inch of each end of the knife off with the pan, which will prevent the mud from running off the ends of the knife. I've only known 3 finishers that use a hawk and trowel and I assure you that I can finish a room about twice as fast as they can. Everybody will have their own preference with what tools to use and the fact that you prefer the hawk means you will lean towards making it look better/easier than a pan. Make it fair and bring in a someone with no experience and no preferences and hand him/her the tools. Let them decide what they prefer and post that video. I think this would be more suiting as these vids are more for the diy homeowners that are in that situation themselves. Just a thought.
@robertfarquhar2780
@robertfarquhar2780 4 жыл бұрын
Exactly I use a knife and a pan and it's really all I know although we do our hand texture with a hawk and trowel but I still prefer a knife, I'm way faster with a knife because It's what I'm use to and I also wipe the mud corners off of my knife too, It doesn't matter if the pan is 12 or 14 inches and full of mud because neither bother me because I'm so used to it. I also love tape and bedding so nothing really gets in my way and I do feel like a knife is alot faster than a trowel.
@tyronespencer1635
@tyronespencer1635 3 жыл бұрын
yo man! I have been doing remodels for a long time and run into a lot of drywall patch work. I recently landed some taping jobs based on availability and have been constantly working on upping my game. I have watched a lot of your videos about all of this. I was super pumped when I learned how to properly use a Banjo. I watched some of your videos yesterday about the bucket with mudded tape vs a banjo and totally understand what you mean with having to reload the banjo all the time. Your content is top notch based on simple logic!
@farmerjim-fat-man-do
@farmerjim-fat-man-do 4 жыл бұрын
Switched to a hawk and knife for taping about 10 years ago...Life changer. Trowel and hawk for everything else. Only use for pans now is mixing small batches of quick setting mud.
@samn8309
@samn8309 5 жыл бұрын
I've been staring at my trowel, dreading the day I would need to learn to use it. I think now is the time. Thanks.
@GriffinBenchmark
@GriffinBenchmark 5 жыл бұрын
Whoa! That knife throw at the end was absolutely sick! 🤣🤣👍
@swnorcraft7971
@swnorcraft7971 5 жыл бұрын
Jeff on Home Reno Vision DIY does a great job with a 4" Putty knife and a 10 or 12" trowel. He uses the trowel and keeps the knife in the same hand as the Hawk. He does taping with the knife and hawk. I have been using his technique on a job (35 4'x8'x1/2" sheets) and as a beginner, I find his system makes sense. The trowel is definitely work to use but it is fast and I am getting better.
@SB_DIY
@SB_DIY Жыл бұрын
I am definitely sold on the hawk, but having a hard time buying off on the trowel. Would love to see a video with you working with someone that is more familiar with a knife as in someone that uses a knife for a living vs the trowel. I think both can be efficient if one is well practiced in the art.
@talontooner
@talontooner 5 жыл бұрын
I use the pan and knife. its just how I was taught. and personally All the negatives you pointed out dont really apply because I learned to work around them and its really a second nature now.
@vancouvercarpenter
@vancouvercarpenter 5 жыл бұрын
I figured anyone who has always used a pan and knife would not have the problems I do. I just never spent the time to get really good with a large knife.
@amazingpowers6056
@amazingpowers6056 5 жыл бұрын
The big thing I see is you aren't cutting mud off corners of knife after you grab mud from pan. Takes a fraction of a second once you get used to it. Where I am you would not get invited back for second day if you showed up with trowel. I hear in other areas it's exactly the opposite. I think it's more about what your used to really. I played around with a hawk and trowel for about an hour in apprentice class and made a big mess, but I'd still like to learn someday when I have the time.
@bailey2624
@bailey2624 5 жыл бұрын
im switching over to hawk and trowel for bigger repairs and floating especially when it come to ceilings. my wrists will thank me
@aerball
@aerball 2 жыл бұрын
Found you a few weeks ago and I cant stop watching. I am in the middle of redoing my coronavirus home office and your videos have been invaluable.
@briancnc
@briancnc 5 жыл бұрын
Great video, well explained and you did great comparisons. As with every job there is a right tool with pros/cons. I personally like the hawk and knife but really like experimenting with different drywall tools to see what works best for each taping task. I think the hawk is better because it puts all your material on a large surface area in one plane and you can manage it easier.
@neilwolfe3324
@neilwolfe3324 4 жыл бұрын
You have really helped up my game thank you. I am doing a 120 year old restoration and your videos have helped me overcome a lot of obstacles in getting the perfect walls on lathe and plaster.
@justwait9822
@justwait9822 5 жыл бұрын
I'm a hawk guy. I find it easier to get the right amount into the tool (whether trowel or knife) A pan gets messy for me and leads to more clean up time. I like being able to apply mud with the length of a trowel and strike the excess off the trowel and back to the hawk using the short edge, keeps the mud in 1 place on the hawk.
@theloniousm4337
@theloniousm4337 5 жыл бұрын
The best thing about the hawk for loading larger blades is the ability to put a nice mound right in the middle - really hard to do with the pan without a couple extra cleaning swipes on the corner tips of the knife. The best thing about the trowel (although it may depend on the brand) is the curve manufactured into the trowel that does a superior job on flats vs a perfectly flat knife. Also the trowel places your grip about 2-3 inches closer to the work edge of the tool vs. a knife which gives better leverage and a lot easier on the wrist after 8 hrs.
@ScottDeSalvo
@ScottDeSalvo Жыл бұрын
Thanks to your channel and a few others similar, I was able to repair settlement cracks in my ceiling myself and it came out perfect. Sure, it took me probably 3x as along as a pro and working on and off over a weekend...but no more ceiling cracks on my 6 month old ceiling! They were all over the place and driving me nuts. Next time I have mud work, I will try my trowel and hawk!
@turboflush
@turboflush 5 жыл бұрын
I think a trowel is slightly thicker. Tip for the knife.. load it up then nock off the corners.
@ashyclaret
@ashyclaret 5 жыл бұрын
When it's worn in,it's like a razor blade.
@superiorbeing95
@superiorbeing95 5 жыл бұрын
@@ashyclaret I think Turbo meant remove mud from corners of the knife after loading it.
@ashyclaret
@ashyclaret 5 жыл бұрын
@@superiorbeing95 I'm on about the trowel.
@superiorbeing95
@superiorbeing95 5 жыл бұрын
@@ashyclaret Oh OK, yeh trowels soon wear in.
@ashyclaret
@ashyclaret 5 жыл бұрын
@@superiorbeing95 They do actually,takes about two weeks.The good ones like Marshalltown are are already broken-in,just need that extra wear on them.
@1stFlyingeagle
@1stFlyingeagle 5 жыл бұрын
Great video. I have taught myself to go all of the above methods. Cool trick for powder products. On hawk make a pile. now take your 4" knife and make the pile into a donut shape. Now fill water into the donut hole. now push the dry powder into the water all the way around and mix. A little practice needed. Currently, I have a job working on. 1400 sq of ceiling that I have removed the popcorn and power sanded. After sanding I had removed a little more then a 5-gallon pail of powder and grit. By the way, it is a cement ceiling with electric heat so it is wavy. I am smooth coating. The ceiling and it is sucking up the mud. 1 box is yielding small sq footage and I will have to apply a second coat. Man feel the burn.:-) Referring to Larry is excellent advice. By his teaching, I became so much better at slinging mud. One thing he teaches. Control your mud. By his teachings, I learned how to make butt joints not as visible. Larry also is a great teacher.
@KFRogers263
@KFRogers263 3 жыл бұрын
Interesting! I've been watching you trying to up my game for my latest bath remodel. I just bought a 12" knife after only using a 10" for tons of other jobs. (knew I was going to need to float out longer than 10" in a couple spots). Watching you and another Canadian contractor, I decided to try a hawk. I've not been thrilled with the 12"; harder to use than my 10" but I just figured lack of experience etc. Interesting on your comment about going to a trowel at 12" on up...Anyway. Always appreciate the videos! Thanks!
@dennissnell1789
@dennissnell1789 5 жыл бұрын
I'm a knife and pan taper.. and it's all about how much experience you have.. if you take someone with no experience at all and teach both systems.. the knife and pan is easiest hands down.. knife and pan is going to give you more control, your gonna do a cleaner job.. again it's all about the experience you have..I've been side by side a hawk and trowel guy and knife and pan was much faster.. love your videos Vancouver dude..if I ever come down your way I'm gonna call u and we can score a job together.. we can have a tape off.. hawk and trowel vs knife and pan..
@bradharper5397
@bradharper5397 3 жыл бұрын
I found the description here very helpful for me as a novice drywall DIY person. This video made my small job much more effective and less stressful. Thank you for posting it.
@justinmiller7422
@justinmiller7422 5 жыл бұрын
Videos are always great. You never waste anyone’s time and it’s packed full of tips. Nice work man.
@shoeknowme
@shoeknowme 2 жыл бұрын
You are definitely one of the best to show how to plaster and explain in great detail why certain tools are better for certain things and of course sometimes it's preference. You are awesome may you have a great safe day
@88SC
@88SC 5 жыл бұрын
LOL, some tradesmen can’t avoid knowing the taste of their work! I’m familiar with an electrician who knows what 220 volts tastes like. 😮 I think I’d prefer chalk.
@pollito5452
@pollito5452 5 жыл бұрын
I saw someone taste 220 at some point. He screamed so hard, after that I asked him is he knew how loud he was. He was not even aware he screamed 😄
@WillCorg
@WillCorg 5 жыл бұрын
Yeah, I used to love the taste of sawdust when I was framing houses years ago. Sometimes I’d like to lick a nice and clean, kiln dried piece of hemlock or fur 2x6 and then smell it! The wetness always brought out the aromas! 😜
@AtlasReburdened
@AtlasReburdened 3 жыл бұрын
I took 480 across the chest once because someone fired up the generator while I was working in a power distribution panel of a connected equipment suite. Every muscle on the front of my body contracted with superhuman strength and I very narrowly escaped both shoving my face into the live panel, and skewering my jugular with the screwdriver in my hand. I don't recall a taste, per se, but I do remember 'seeing stars'.
@seabass22
@seabass22 3 жыл бұрын
@@AtlasReburdened was the power out or you had it turned off? Wondering what the deal with the generator was.
@AtlasReburdened
@AtlasReburdened 3 жыл бұрын
@@seabass22 I was working on a mobile military communications equipment suite that sits on the back of a HMMWV. The generator is the only power supply.
@JoshSullivan1
@JoshSullivan1 5 жыл бұрын
Best outro ever!
@Badazz08
@Badazz08 5 жыл бұрын
Dont make him mad lol!
@sylviogiroux5817
@sylviogiroux5817 5 жыл бұрын
Back East in the US and Canada the old tapers work without hawks just different trowels and 6 " knife and 4 " for corners.
@ELT-canada
@ELT-canada 3 жыл бұрын
can you check my Instagram. I'm very professional, only check and follow me if you want ELT Taping
@josephcote8634
@josephcote8634 3 жыл бұрын
Knife and trowel is good when you're in a small enough room to always be in arms reach of the mud bucket. Great for doing closets.
@1stFlyingeagle
@1stFlyingeagle 2 жыл бұрын
Absolutely agree with you. Both and knowing when and how to use them is part of being a professional.
@andremarzec1319
@andremarzec1319 4 жыл бұрын
I'm a painter from Denmark. And a pan and the other things seems so silly to me. We use knives over here, a small one to take mud from the bucket and applying it where you want on the bigger knife. And the small one we also use to clean the bigger one and throw the rest mus back in the bucket
@desmonddart5163
@desmonddart5163 3 жыл бұрын
Was my exact same thought. It's the same in Germany. It appears a bit useless shifting that mud from bucket to pan to knife, instead of just taking it frome the bucket directly.
@justinstevenson2061
@justinstevenson2061 2 жыл бұрын
Man, you are the best. I’ve done some drywall patches many years ago before I started taking more care into my work (in my own house I mean). I’m the crazy roofer 😜. Always have done my work well and never had a leak or serious issue. But over the years I’ve become such a perfectionist about things on my jobs, and take the time to really detail some things o might not have before. Also just making more suggestions to homeowners on what should be done, and learning not to stray away from suggestions on how to do things better. Fast forward, I’m doing my own bathroom. Which has been a bit of a nightmare and learning experience. I understand tools and concepts, but some of the applications are foreign to me. Just understanding there are certain tools for each job, and processes for these specific jobs. Watching your videos have really helped me up my mudding game, and my wife will love you for that help, as my mudding has always been sub par for sure. If I were trying to achieve perfection I would hire someone like yourself, or if it were large scale like a full house. But doing these small patches and skim coats on things that I do myself I enjoy the learning process, and being able to see my nicely finished end product. Again only nicely done thanks to yourself. The time you take to explain and do demonstrations is just incredible, and I’m sure your customers appreciate your thoroughness
@randymathews3348
@randymathews3348 5 жыл бұрын
I can c the benefits of each but it really depends on how you were taught. I'ma knife n pan guy. As far as manipulating mud, I never put that much in my pan. Max is three scoops, work the mud to keep it centered in the pan. That way I can load my knife left/right or center depending on what I'm taping corner/bevel or butt
@azmaz73
@azmaz73 Жыл бұрын
This is the best comparison video of the two methods I’ve seen! Kudos!
@Rob-rs5rn
@Rob-rs5rn 5 жыл бұрын
Your videos are extremely well done. When I see them come up I'm sometimes reluctant to click because, after all, there are dogs doing funny things elsewhere. That said, I click anyway and I'm happy every time. You've got legit knowledge and your communication skills bring that knowledge forward in a slick way. Thanks.
@Maxkil
@Maxkil 5 жыл бұрын
I'm a knife and hawk kind of guy, I can see the benefits in the trowel, I just need to practice more. Another great video!
@naysoeaung
@naysoeaung 5 жыл бұрын
I'm leaning plastering I been subscribe both of you love to see your guys videos from NZ
@j.scottcaudill7543
@j.scottcaudill7543 5 жыл бұрын
I am from Florida and I've never used a hawk an trowel but I can appreciate them after watching this video. Thank you!
@The_Macaroon
@The_Macaroon 5 жыл бұрын
Having just diy done my bathroom ceiling with a knife, I can only agree with this video, wish I knew then what I know now!
@jzsjr66
@jzsjr66 5 жыл бұрын
Hawk definitely easier to clean.
@ELT-canada
@ELT-canada 3 жыл бұрын
can you check my Instagram. I'm very professional, only check and follow me if you want ELT Taping
@stevenminnerly5336
@stevenminnerly5336 Жыл бұрын
Maryland turned out the top drywall craftsmanship of anyplace I've been too. Top speed too. The level of productivity of those 1970s / 1980s finishers was amazing. Not to mention the quality of their work.
@clevername4781
@clevername4781 5 жыл бұрын
Thanks Im gonna start using a hawk and trowel for ceiling work and fast pace jobs. I've wondered this myself. I also do a lot of dryvet so I'm just as experienced with a hawk and trowel
@HBSuccess
@HBSuccess 5 жыл бұрын
V.C.- I might add... I also carry a 5" or 6" in the SAME hand as my mud pan at all times when I'm using wider knives... Sort of crammed between little finger and pan (another huge repetitive stress potential) , but again... second nature at this point.
@wjon32s
@wjon32s 5 жыл бұрын
I am a tile setter. I feel like this will help my tile and drywalling. I dont know why i have never thought of using the tools im already comfortable with
@disklamer
@disklamer 3 жыл бұрын
Great explanations, and demonstration. I prefer a trowel over a knife 90% of the time, like you said you get a lot more traction and pressure out of it, so less fatigue and wrist strain. With a trowel you can set up plaster at just about any thickness, over an inch if the plaster is nice and stiff, that is impossible to do with a knife, so ia trowel is great for really uneven surfaces and filling larger cracks and holes. With a trowel you can plaster over a brick wall in one run for example. Rest the hawk on the bucket if you need to pur it down. Put your trowel on the hawk to have one hand free for taping, or whatever you need to do. A trowel can get into corners just fine if you change yuor grip a bit, turn it around and grab the stem, instead of full on gripping the handle. I like how with a trowel it's relatively easy to make a transition on an inside or outside corner, and you can really cut sharp edges. For trickier parts, corners etc. just use the short end. All of it comes down to experience anyway:) everybody has their prefrence and personal tricks.
@WorkThrowaway
@WorkThrowaway 3 ай бұрын
Super helpful. I need to learn how to do this for the first time in my garage and decided to stick with a pan and knife just cause it seems the easiest to pick up and get going. If I was to do the entire house, probably worth learning how to hawk and trowel. Maybe in the future if I ever decide to skim the walls to remove the god awful texture.
@tooltroll
@tooltroll Жыл бұрын
Over the years, I've developed a bit of a hybrid method: Mud bucket, 6" knife, and a 12" trowel. Kick the bucket around with me, using the knife to load/clean the trowel. Never have to carry more than a trowelful around with me, so easier on the arms and shoulders. Even better when working off a scaffold 'cause the mud bucket comes up on the scaffold and wheels around with me.
@jamesamurdock93
@jamesamurdock93 2 жыл бұрын
Really looked forward to using my new hawk and trowel but it takes some time getting use to. I already developed the knife & pan and got really use to it. I find feathering edges are where I’m having a tough time with the hawk and trowel, but I do notice I’m moving more material faster. It just takes some getting use to. Your one of my favorite carpenters on here, been doing a lot of drywall and you’ve helped a lot
@judoslap59
@judoslap59 4 жыл бұрын
You are crazy thorough mate, You just saved me money and hairloss on what I've been wondering for a long time. The wider the spread means a different method of application. The knife becomes awkward on larger joints. CANADA!!!!!!!!
@garysimpson7870
@garysimpson7870 3 жыл бұрын
Always used the trowel & hawk, thrown in at the deep end with 120 square meters of ceiling when I first started, tasted quite a bit initially lol. Use an 18" Marshalltown 14" Hawk, lasted me 16 years & still going strong, best £60 I ever spent.
@Titantitan001
@Titantitan001 3 жыл бұрын
Trowels are for all kinds of trades! We use them in tile a lot for floating walls and floors. Also any type of floor prep and they are necessary. I always have one in my trunk
@kevinmd77
@kevinmd77 Жыл бұрын
I’ve been doing drywall for over 25 years and I’ve never used a hawk and trowel however I’ve always been curious to try one. I’ve kinda experimented using them at my local hardware store, running the blade down some bare walls in the store while performing techniques I normally use when using a standard knife and pan and it definitely feels like it would work better, especially when a bigger knife is required. It definitely seems like the mud could be applied much further as well while staying consistent the whole time. I may try this one day.
@jakejohn4368
@jakejohn4368 Жыл бұрын
I've been in the drywall business for 24 years. I've hung a lot of drywall. Now I'm getting old I don't want to hang drywall no more. I want to try to finish it. There's a lot I don't know about finishing although I've washed it for 24 years and I'm doing it I have questions that's where you come into place. I've been watching a lot of videos and ICU everywhere's. Your videos are very informative and helpful. I'm at the point do I continue with the pan and knife or do I move on to a hawk and trowel. Thank you so much I appreciate the time effort and energy you put into making these videos for everybody! Keep it up you kick ass love your Channel!
@davidpope6138
@davidpope6138 3 жыл бұрын
I dog ear my mud on my knife by wiping the first inch on each side of the knife on the pan, before I apply it... that said, for skimming I think the hawk and trowel is definitely faster and with a trowel (pool trowel) you can practically burn the mud in like you would finishing concrete for a skim coat...cuts down on sanding for smooth-wall and 90-10....
@gtrob1
@gtrob1 2 жыл бұрын
I cannot believe how much I have learned from your videos. Astounding man.
@tonymazz9912
@tonymazz9912 3 жыл бұрын
You are a brilliant hard working young man and full of knowledge about the trades. What you have is worth everything and you'll never have to worry or struggle about your monetary success.. I have watched dozens of your video's and learn something every time. Be safe and GOD bless.
@752brickie
@752brickie 3 жыл бұрын
In our area most drywallers use the knives and pans. I used both because I am also a plasterer. There bare times I used both. A good friend of mine I used to do a lot of work for "GOD rest his Soul" always used the hawk and trowel and did amazing quality work !
@mediumsizedm
@mediumsizedm 3 жыл бұрын
I use the wall as my pan. I scoop out three pans worth of material, and dump it on the wall, at eye level. Then when I need it, I take it off the wall, as I need it. I work with a 6" knife in my right hand, and a 10" in my right hand. I did three coats on 82 sheets this way (basement, lots of beads and bulkheads) and got it all plastered, sanded, and primed in 5 8 hour days. 3400 job happily paid for. All done with all purpose mud. 8 boxes worth, 20 paper beads Hardly any sanding, 2 hour 15 minutes sanding at a slow to medium pace. Looks great too. Stilts are the key... even for a low, 7' ceiling, I set them to 10" and I'm golden. Just to show you, that it can be done many ways.
@mediumsizedm
@mediumsizedm 3 жыл бұрын
I mean to say... a 6" knife on my right hand and a 10" knife in my left.... but I alternate when skimming. Of course I use a 12" broadknife at t-intersections and taller Bulkheads. Tape, plaster, sand and prime should be like 40 bucks a sheet, at today's prices, for a normal customer in a normal home. Of course you can ask more and often get it, but you could also ask less, and get turned down... so ask and ye shall usually receive. Good luck, folks
@edover50
@edover50 5 жыл бұрын
Enjoyed the explanation, thanks Ben! Next videos ending expectation is to see you split the 6” blade with a trowel from the same distance
@dannymartin5129
@dannymartin5129 9 ай бұрын
one thing i noticed is the handle on a trowel is spot welded in the center making slightly less flex then a knife. especially the edges. so i tried hawk & trowel for the first time ever & i found the same exact thing great video
@WillCorg
@WillCorg 5 жыл бұрын
Yeah, I’m an American (ironically my Dad’s a BC Canadian) and I’m a true convert to the hawk and trowel method. It’s not just applying the mud that’s faster, it’s loading the hawk and cleaning it up afterwards that’s faster! It’s just perfect for doing a Santa Fe coating here in Arizona!
@IppiopaidFEEDBACK
@IppiopaidFEEDBACK 5 жыл бұрын
Could’ve close with a simple “Happy New Years”! But a knife throw works just as well. Another excellent video!
@hettick304
@hettick304 4 жыл бұрын
Just want to say thank you for the videos! I'm just a handy man, but I take more and more drywall repairs because of your vids. It's helped me take out a lot of unessiary steps, thanks to your great prep tips! I feel like I'm working smarter, not harder. I'm still a knife guy, but I really like the controll and spread you get with that trowel.
@garnetnard4284
@garnetnard4284 2 жыл бұрын
Watching this video 2 years ago made me aware that the hawk and trowel method even existed. I tried it shortly thereafter and never went back to the pan and knife. It’s such a great way to spread mud.
@zeke112964
@zeke112964 5 жыл бұрын
When using the pan and knife try cleaning off the edges of the knife before applying it to keep it centered like you do with the trowel. Simply wipe about and inch or so off each edge on angle into the pan and apply as usual
@calebrillamas5349
@calebrillamas5349 2 жыл бұрын
You’re the man Ben!!! Love the smooth knife throw at the end! 🤙🏽💪🏽 Your “used to be” awkward endings are classic 😁
@justmike57
@justmike57 5 жыл бұрын
Sweet ending. Because of my age, I will stick to the pan and knife because that is what I taught myself with. And slow and steady is how I roll now and am on my way out of the sheetrock world, but watch just what you do to help my son figure it out better for himself.
@AM-os4ty
@AM-os4ty 5 жыл бұрын
Thanks for all these videos. Very informative. I have a bunch of small patching jobs and now I know the right tools. If we tackle a slightly bigger job we will break out the trowel. The knife pull/trowel push issue also explained why our drywallers were such a mess getting the ceilings done.
@juanoldhandspainting8986
@juanoldhandspainting8986 5 жыл бұрын
I agree with you!! I can see that, i like both ways
@beepo8221
@beepo8221 5 жыл бұрын
I've been swinging a hammer since I was old enough to pick it up but I've only been slinging mud for about 15 yrs, and I have to say u have some serious skill. I'm a knife and hawk guy for the most part. I do skim large areas with a trowel though. I guess it's my New England upbringing. I've actually started showing your videos to the young men who work under me (I'm a site foreman for a development company) to give them a good idea of how to patch holes and use a knife/trowel effectively and efficiently. You explain and demonstrate very well and for some reason they respect a you tube video more than a real life tradesman. Either way thanks for making my job that much easier... maybe its cuz u Canadians are just so polite? Haha
@vancouvercarpenter
@vancouvercarpenter 5 жыл бұрын
Nope. It's because the ability to listen to anyone with authority over them is fast disappearing. I have had an incredibly hard time finding anyone who will listen to me in person but I now have 30,000 people who are very interested. Most people search for drywall videos on youtube to expand their knowledge. People go to work to collect a cheque while giving the bare minimum.
@beepo8221
@beepo8221 5 жыл бұрын
@@vancouvercarpenter preaching to the choir man. That's why closed shop and took this job. I was sick of watching 3 guys half ass it all day and make more money than me while I did the lions share of the labor and carried all the responsibilities.
@kodymackie6808
@kodymackie6808 5 жыл бұрын
Pan and knife guy here, just personal preference, I can tape no problem, hawk and Trowel, I all of a sudden turned into the new guy on the job, just haven’t used it enough to get it, I like your vids thanks!
@brianleys6942
@brianleys6942 5 жыл бұрын
With pan and knife. You cut a bit mud off the sides of the knife on the pan before spreading the mud on the wall. It won't pore out the sides of the knife and make a mess
@purepolemanagement
@purepolemanagement 5 жыл бұрын
He obviously would know this. But it's clearly not his preferred method. And in any case, it would add a ridiculous amount of time to a job to have to waste that time on each pass cutting mud off each side of the knife on the pan before spreading it.
@brianleys6942
@brianleys6942 5 жыл бұрын
You won't lose any time when your good at it. But I do perfer hawk and trowle tho
@matiuhensley6657
@matiuhensley6657 5 жыл бұрын
so im a stopper from New Zealand if you roll into a job here with ya knife and pan you'd get laughed off the site mate, i dont mind the broad knife i own one it doesn't see a lot of use tho...... any ways good vid.... work those guns stopp up a storm boyz char! much luv up on the down side New Zealand
@bailey2624
@bailey2624 5 жыл бұрын
@@purepolemanagement yup it does
@glenwally5897
@glenwally5897 5 жыл бұрын
I agree cut it off both corners of knife to avoid oozing out of the side.
@gravelcreekfarms3850
@gravelcreekfarms3850 5 жыл бұрын
Love using my hawk and trowel also carry a 4” & 6” knife in my back pocket. The h&t are way easier on the joints. Good videos
@whatyouwontseeontv8266
@whatyouwontseeontv8266 3 жыл бұрын
I used the pan for fast-dry products (powder and water) such as CGC-20, and the hack for joint compound (the one ready to apply).
@eleazarabrego4596
@eleazarabrego4596 2 жыл бұрын
I like the pans for hot mud so I can mix in them. Personally I use hot mud quite a bit and it helps for that
@PyroXideInc
@PyroXideInc 5 жыл бұрын
Man I wish I would have watched this video before I skim coated about half my house covering up a mish-mash of popcorn texture, silicone, and outdoor plaster from the previous owners. My knife/pan issues are the same as yours. I admit I'm an amateur to it all, but it seems even if I had just applied it all with the trowel and then came back through with the knife I would have been better off, instead I ended up with a lot of drops, a lot of clean up, and the great taste of mud in my mouth. Keep pumping out the great content and stay safe, cheers!
@ShakespeareCafe
@ShakespeareCafe 3 жыл бұрын
Buy the USG stainless steel mud pan. It has a curved contour bottom allowing you to use all the mud and it’s easier to clean.
@davefoc
@davefoc 5 жыл бұрын
I have had the exact question that the video was about. The story about the origin of the knife technique versus the towel technique was cool, even if it isn't true. I occasionally do small amounts of dry wall taping/wall repair jobs and it was a pleasure to see a professional explaining and demonstrating various techniques. He demonstrated a couple of techniques that professionals make look very easy that I've struggled with. One of them was applying joint compound sideways with the small knife. I do it, but no where as smoothly as he did. The other is manipulating the material on the hawk. Mostly I've used hawks for small stucco jobs and I try to look like I'm competent by maneuvering the stucco on the hawk with that tilt technique, but I pretty much just make a mess.
@daniellewis984
@daniellewis984 4 жыл бұрын
I ended up being lended the whole shebang and found that on the most part, I wanted a 6" and a 12" knife. The combination let me keep my blades clean, prevent birdshit (mud hitting the floor), and put mud where I want it for each move. We kept a rectangular repurposed screw bucket for keeping and mixing mud, and then used the dust-free drywall mud. It worked well for my purposes, building my own house.
@pakosilva373
@pakosilva373 2 жыл бұрын
This is the best drywall carpenter I have seen!!!! 😳
@Summersovergrowup
@Summersovergrowup 5 жыл бұрын
That was a beautiful throw at the end there 😂
@crackrock6636
@crackrock6636 2 жыл бұрын
Hawk boards are used by masons as well for tuckpointing. Just gotta cut em down a bit so they're not so bulky
@MadsWorld34
@MadsWorld34 3 жыл бұрын
i really thought i was going to have to pull all the tape and mud off my ceiling because i dont have a clue of what i am doing. but after watching a few of your videos last night i went out this morning and saved my ceiling. not its not going to look as good as someone that knows what they are doing but i really think its going to look alot better. just from the feathering alone. thanks.
@recj949
@recj949 4 жыл бұрын
My basement flooded, I needed to cut all the walls and I used the opportunity to improve insolation. So, I get also 18 inches wide holes in the ceiling all the long of the exerior walls. It made 320 feet of joints ( a lot of corners) and I needed almost a hole big bag of Sheetrock 90 for the gaps we the drywall novices created plus the differences between the old drywall gypse and the new. For me, I found the easiest to use was the trowel and the hawk to apply the mud in the large joints then the 12 inches knife to work it. For the corners I used the 4 and 6 inches knife. I was unable to use the trowel to feather the edges or to work the mud. But as I said, the hawk and trowel was the bomb to apply the mud on the ceiling and on the wall joints. I used the pan and knife at the beginning for the corners and to apply the tape. Something I realized almost at the end is that the old rusted knives (a friend lend me) are a pain in the neck, you lose a lot of time triying to clean it after each application, I should have buy new ones since the beginning and spare the wrist pain it produced to fight time after time aquezing the knife against the pan or the hawk to clean it from the dry mud. But, it is done now. Thanks fot the Laurier's video, I finaly learned from him how to load the mud in the 4 inches knife for the corners making the less of a mess LOL. I forgot to tell, wach time I was making a 3 way corner I was hearing : Prety, LOL; each time I was working a joint I was hearing 'feather the edge' LOL.
@alfredmedina9398
@alfredmedina9398 5 жыл бұрын
Clip both corner tips on knife before u apply mud won’t spill off the edges
@k1ng401
@k1ng401 3 жыл бұрын
After watching this I decided to use hawk and trowel for doing my second and third coats on joins. It takes a bit of getting used to and feathering is definitely way harder but I love the hawk, even when using a knife. So easy to work with and easy to clean. The trowel blade doesn’t flex very much so bending it to feather is tricky. Sometimes I grab the six inch knife to finish the feathering. But I am improving with the trowel.
@jamesalexander9817
@jamesalexander9817 5 жыл бұрын
I've been doing finishing for over 35 years. I started taping on the west coast. Hawk and trowel taping is mainly an east coast thing. For a beginner a hawk and trowel can get very messy and is harder to get the hang of. Coating joints, metal and angles with taping knifes are easier for beginners so in my opinion start with a pan and knife. Good video though.
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