Vanilla Questing and Why its Remembered - WCmini Facts

Leveling in vanilla wow was very unique when compared to how we do things in the modern game. You see, leveling in vanilla wow, WAS the game, So you spent a long time doing it. And MMOs where just played differently back then, so as I progress through this video you will notice a lot more differences than similarities to how questing is done today.
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#VanillaWoW #classic #questing
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[@ivansinadinovic4870]

Dat moment when you pull 2 creeps, kill 1st with 10% HP and DING to next lvl so you get instant 100% HP. Priceless

[@dino4941]

always calculated

[@tasty8186]

I remember watching a duel at Tarren mill, halfway through the duel, the Rogue cc'd the warrior and sprinted to a quest giver - and levelled up from hand in rofl

[@BALLiNAiNTEz]

@@tasty8186 lmaooooo

[@vados8500]

@@tasty8186 that should have cancelled the duel because that's not fair lol

[@EloquentTroll]

Here's you Zevra hooves. Wait, I'm not bleeding anymore more!

[@LylWren]

Pulling a single mob from a large group was like an art form.

[@KveruLars]

Grace Y and yet, when the scaling and stat squish came now, everyone was complaining that they couldnt pull more than one mob as a mage because they would die. I swear, 'nillas are a bunch of hypocrites

[@PrimordialNightmare]

I think you're wrong with the assumptions vanilla players were complaining.

[@KveruLars]

I've seen many people complain about retail being too easy, saying they cant wait for Classic, and at the same time in another thread complain leveling with heirlooms is too slow.

[@devaliant1]

I was a paladin, my first useful ranged pull was Linkens boomerang. Look up the level you could get it, please.

[@martingeorgiev6309]

haha I remember, good old 56 :D

[@Aetrion]

Another big thing with Vanilla WoW is that since every single level was hard to attain it never felt like there was no point in going after blue or purple items that weren't max level. Today nobody even cares about gear until endgame, because why waste your time with equipment you'll just replace 2 days later, but in Vanilla WoW you'd hit those dungeons hard knowing that getting a few blue items would make your climb through the next few levels that much easier.

[@jwbam167]

I remember buying gear for low lvls to help with the grind and make instances smoother. Because you would also use it for a long time.

[@TheFamiliarName]

Using a level 24 shield on my Paladin until level 55 because i genuinely got awful drop chances, those were the days! shit was hard and fun because of it

[@phreeze83]

i remember farming "T0" set and then convert it to T0.5 before even THINKING about asking to join a raid-guild ! They checked your equip. Not full blue with T0.5? get lost ! farming scholomance and UBRS 10men (or was it 15? ) was a pain. UBRS endboss for the chest...aaaand somebody ninjalootet it. No summon stones, it took 15mins to just get to the fucking dungeon

[@jjilatt123]

Aetrion Herod's Shoulder never forget

[@serbisthehero1987l]

I remember people at level 60 in AV running with that shoulder on. Even warriors who could use plate XD

[@aaronzamora4526]

Debating with yourself whether you want to spend gold for the flightmaster or run it out.

[@jordanknipe9652]

the runs to Tanaris to quest, just to find that alliance is trying to get into/through the barrens.. and your faction is calling for help over trade chat to stop them at the elevator. that, already long run.. became hours of fun.. ),:

[@idontlikeyouyo]

Lol. Just stop being poor.

[@duelponzac]

just spend it. the time you save means you will be gathering resourses faster than legging all the way from point A to B, so its an investment of time.

[@anasothman3884]

@@duelponzac How can you spend that which you do not have?

[@phantom0456]

Time is money, friend 😉

[@imperatoraugustus9970]

I will never forget my first experience with vanilla wow. I rolled a human mage, and was instantly entranced with the game. From elwynn, to westfall where I was beaten right back into elwynn, to hanging in the goldshire inn talking to people, to heading to this tram i heard stories of to try adventuring in this dun morogh. Got presents from greatfather winter, explored dun morogh and get more experience, made a dwarf friend who returned to stormwind with me, we got beat out of westfall again, we met a female night elf rogue in the goldshire inn, then the three of us handled westfall and eventually made it to the deadmines where I experienced my first dungeon; manually formed with people on the server. Wow has not captured this sense of adventure since, and the community has become very self centered and careless. its a shame

[@EndbossProductions]

manually formed - can you imagine? player interaction in a mmorpg? wooow the memories ... now you get thrown into an instance by the dungeonfinder, rush through, leave group, not a single word has been spoken. Could have all been bots, wouldnt even notice.

[@evankt]

I had much the same impression left starting as a Night Elf hunter - aimshot from the shadows! But the most memorable was questing in the starting zones from start to finish and I don't even remember the name of the coastline that doesn't exist anymore that you took your first boat to from Darnassus. As this video suggests, everything just felt bigger and more meaningful. The first time arriving at Ironforge was just amazing - too big for a solo player but perfect when you consider the hundreds of people that would be online at the same time. Other than that my highlights were the loot - Hunter weapon! haha - Tiger Claws from Zul' Gurub that turned me into the tiger boss (animation only, of course), but only when meleeing, the epic hunter line quest for the staff that turned into the bow, and the last thing I got before quitting a while later was Ash'kandi - all that agility on a melee 2h! It's crazy I even remember any of these names of places and things I haven't thought of or played in over a decade. Finally, the talents were one of the best parts that made you think about the overall growth of your character. I'm looking forward to seeing what they release as Classic WoW. But I have a feeling that even if I play it, I won't end up raiding, maybe not even pvping. I loved the exploration, but the end-game grind, when they just release an expansion that undoes all your hard work equipping yourself, just wasn't worth it in the end. That said, I'm looking forward to seeing Upper and Lower Blackrock Spire again, level and gear appropriate - where that blue off of Rend or The Beast changed everything.

[@TheBaconlaser]

Watching the moon rise in Westfall from the cliff overlooking the beach was memorable.

[@sterben4469]

Dude, thats exactly what is makes special for me ❤️

[@Ferdel86]

I think it was the self centered and careless users you're talking who actually made the game turn into what it is now.

[@UltimatePowa]

Having played since the launch of Vanilla WoW, I rarely find a video that accurately portrays the beginning of WoW and why it hit that spark. You have done that sir, well done.

[@clorky420]

@Ultimate Powa Dude, watch MadSeasonShow. He has the best series on Vanilla WoW and TBC. His videos really hit that spark you have in mind.

[@clorky420]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/l32bYoytr8hgpLc

[@UltimatePowa]

I'll give it a look. Most people get the evolution of WoW completely wrong though, because all they can do is look it up since they weren't there themselves. With original WoW, it was a shitshow. Paladins were god, hunters had auto-pilot for leveling, there was no end game, and any dungeon level 50+ was considered max level and required at least 10 people. This was where WoW's PvP was originally born. The health in early WoW was extremely balanced, so a level 30 player could kill up to a level 50, if they played their cards right. Which eventually lead to the development of the current honor system after the release of Molten Core. I often would just make a new character after hitting level 60 so I could level up again, and enjoy the World PvP leveling had to offer. What really took away from the magic Vanilla WoW had created (besides battlegrounds), was the release of the Burning Crusade. Blizzard had developed this world that was full of action from North to South in Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms, only to release a world that was 60-70 only. What was an active thriving world became barren, and desolate. No more would you run into a random high level running into a dungeon that you could ask for assistance, and no more were their 40v40+ battles fought over simple level 30 quest givers. The PvP system that I knew and loved was completely gone overnight with no hope of return... until 11 years later. That's the evolution of WoW (Vanilla to Burning Crusade) as I know it, and mind you I left out the majority of the details.

[@clorky420]

I think he says in one of his videos that he was around back then, but took a break in raiding in TBC. He does get nostalgic, but points out both the good and bad things, what gets me though is the way he talks and also the video editing is top notch. Highly recommend it. There's also plenty of other videos of his regarding the Vanilla/TBC gameplay.

[@UtopiaOshay]

My first character in Vanilla WoW was a Paladin. They were in no way Gods, and arguably were worse than Shamans in every possible way. At very low levels, they seemed very powerful because they got Verigan's Fist very early. But once you got towards the late 20s, the early 30s, you were weak compared to most of the other classes, and by the end of the game you were awful. You also couldn't tank worth a damn, since you didn't get the talent that prevented the Crushing Blows by boss and raid mobs, only the warrior got that talent until Burning Crusades came out. You couldn't heal worth a damn either unless you wore priest gear. There's a reason that classic Leeroy Jenkins video has them talking about getting him devout shoulders, which were the priest Tier 0 gear.

[@yard12346]

I think the most overlooked factor that seperates the questing experience in vanilla from retail is that... you’re just an adventurer. Retail quest lines make you this rediculously powerful feeling entity from like.. level 12 lol. Everything you do in retail is to “save the world”, but in vanilla, you were just some guy that took the challenge of helping the locals. Only when you hit 60 did you start getting quests that made you feel like a real badass. In retail, everyone is amazing. It’s so self serving. Everyone is “the best of their class” as far as questlines are concerned. In vanilla, you actually had to prove yourself. You were just another scrub until you put the work in and earned your titles.

[@latjolajban81]

Indeed. Being the hero and superman of everything gets kinda boring.

[@rubbishopinions6468]

All the strong guys were out fighting the opposing faction in the war. You were the young scrub left behind to deal with the bandits or to thin down the wolf population in the area and there was nothing wrong with that.

[@randytrashcan]

Man, I've been thinking the same thing after I came back (and quit) in Legion and then came back (haven't quit yet) in BfA. I'll never forget my first character, a night elf hunter. I'll never forget running out of copper to afford the flight path from Darkshore to Darnassus. I'll never forget that feeling of being so weak and having an entire world to explore. I remember seeing a guy with the Warglaives and being stunned to actually see someone with them. Retail now? Everyone gets legendaries and you just chain pull and blow through quest mobs. Blah blah, , hero of Azeroth. The last expansion I really played was WotLK, but I'd give just about anything to play through BC again. Goddamn was that fun. That was back in the golden age of gaming with Halo and CoD2 and 4, before everything became overly complicated, flashy, and gimmicky.

[@somzer]

And oh boy, having a full epic set felt rewarding and earned some respect...and a lot of jelly.

[@harrisonmcguire4235]

So well put

[@flipboy420]

Vanilla thru Wrath was a completely different game to what it is now. I enjoyed the game much more when the focal point was adventuring throughout the world, not just a race to max level so you can begin raiding.

[@PlushNightingale]

I agree with what you said, but TBC and Wrath were also a race to get max level. It's just they offered way more actual endgame. Leveling being the main content ended in Vanilla not Wrath.

[@stylesheetra9411]

Just because there were fre guide/no knowledge of endgame, raiding required more person so was more niche You Can enjoy leveling up even now (also cata was good for leveling up cause you got new zone)

[@RivenEnjoyer6897]

The focal point is only "adventuring through the world" if you're a noob

[@lunastark1060]

back then everyone was a noob .... because it was long to be max level, it was not hard but really annoying to level up . Wow is better now

[@danielskrivan6921]

And then a race to get your gear up to minimum item level, do LFR, and then get bored.

[@blarghts]

Vanilla WoW had atmosphere. You spent tons of time in almost every zone and would get to know where the high level content was before you could ever do it. When you did get your group together later to do it it felt more rewarding like finishing a story arc it didn't need to use a cinematic for effect or to tell you that you are the hero. One mode for any given dungeon also makes those instances mini mountains to climb, you could get it done or you couldn't that's the way I prefer my games however.

[@Maddinhpws]

I remember going into Deadmines with a group of people ranging level 15-17. I believe the first boss was like level 19 or 20. We somehow managed to kill him but we couldn't make it any further. And then suddenly seing that giant fucking ship, I never imagined this to be a thing.

[@politicallycorrectredskin796]

Remember the weather effects?

[@noticedruid4985]

@@politicallycorrectredskin796 I remember when they first introduced weather effects, in the update it was its biggest feature for that update. Man I was so excited.

[@IrisCorven]

God, remember when we were "Traveler", and not "Hero"?... That felt good.

[@archvolkan]

I loved WOW more when it was about the journey, not the destination.

[@ToliniDaniel]

That was the Classic wow launch experience on the first 2 or 3 months in a nutshell. Great times!

[@cococock2418]

It never was about the journey bozo. Single player games are for the journey, not MMO's.

[@etherstrip]

@@cococock2418 …said someone who was not there and probably was not even born at that time.

[@primary2630]

@@cococock2418 what do you even mean? raiding and getting gear is also part of the journey. I can tell you never played the old game

[@gregoryjamaalfulton]

@@cococock2418 final fantasy 14 would like to have a word with you.

[@Kernog]

When playing a new character in Legion, I was torn between missing having to earn every level, taking my time through each zone, and the general sense of big world scale, on one side, and being grateful for the variety, and the quality of life changes that Cataclysm had brought into the questing on the other side. I'm convinced there could have been a middle ground. I also missed the class trainers and class quests of Vanilla. It made more sense to learn your techniques from someone else, and it gave some capitals, like Thunder Buff, some life.

[@Amoreyna]

I really think there could have been a middle ground, too. I wish we could still get orange/red quests. They presented things that took some thought on how to accomplish at times. Quests that sent you far away to discover new things. More hidden quests that you fall over in the world just by looking at stuff or revisiting an NPC. I wish we kept class trainers and also that instead of simplifying things they used class trainers to instruct people on their class, either through dialogue or through books laying around to read. People used to whine that they had to go all the way back to a trainer to train all the time, but really - a lot of stuff wasn't mandatory to learn right away. You could wait till something good came up and then go. They could have put a few more trainers in the game to help with travel and/or supplied a long distance communication technique for a small charge with a theme for each class. I dislike the questing on rails, I really do. The whole - 'go here, then here, then here, don't worry you won't get lost because we have this all mapped out' just ruins a lot of the exploration and the wonder for me. What's the point of having a grand, nearly seamless world when you are hand-held through it? It becomes portal jumping and flight paths. The world seems infinitely smaller due to it, and honestly, it's not because of flight for me but because I can effortlessly cover large distances by portal usage. It started to be a problem for me back in Cata, ironically the same expansion they removed portals from Dal and Shatt because they wanted players out in the world while making our end-game stuff reachable via easy portals in one city for the factions. Talk about really narrowing down one's world view.

[@johnzackarias11]

@@Amoreyna Well put! Constantly knowing exactly where I'm supposed to go next is convenient, but it sucks the soul and the adventure out of the game completely. Blizzard totally lost it.

[@green11ndy]

I used to spend hours exploring a zone for small details because it was rewarding to discover lore that way. Now it just feels like I walk two steps and am done. A balance is definitely needed. That's why Cataclysm was the last expansion I really played, other than the odd nostalgia resubscribes

[@BuccLife]

Back when DING meant something...

[@iwanttoseemrshow]

Gratz!

[@haydenward1441]

nowdays its only the last ding that means anything. i still grats guildies who get a random level up tho :D

[@MrKannin]

Hayden Ward it's so sad really. I remember it was almost a huge celebration. Especially on the 10 sections.

[@izuzan7419]

Barrens chat almost got tolerable when someone DINGed. The arguing and inane chatter would stop for a few mins while people Gratz'ed you.

[@Danster97]

Oh man the feels

[@Tantalis77]

The moments of and the people I met during long runs to warsong gulch will forever be some of my best memories from gaming. When that bg dropped, entire servers went on pilgrimage to the instance gate with horde and alliance only a mountain apart. Roads were like highways of players and anyone leveling in the areas witnessed parades of the servers strongest players. If you're lucky, you may even see one of the few players with an epic mount. Once the Horde and Alliance realized how close together they were, all out natural pvp occurred that would later be replicated when Alterac Valley dropped. This made for extremely tense games of wsg where true rivalry existed and thrived that thoroughly satisfied our human need for competition before ultimately becoming the most epic game of hide and seek ever. Afterall, this game would likely last the next 8 hours. The Horde player would be found on the right side of the building on their side after mountain climbing into a little nook. The Alliance, a gnome who /lay into a wall becoming effectively invisible for anyone not spamming the next target button. Those early wsg battles would be the longest pvp sessions I'd experience surpassing the wars fought in Southshore/Tarren Mill and the frustratingly long battles in STV at Nesingwarys camp. A constant thrill that would later be shattered during my first Alterac Valley war which last near 30 hours. Ah the times. What I lost out of in the form of social development was completely made up for in taking part in and experiencing something that truly felt adventurous, unique, and massive in scale. A combination of emotions that I would forever be chasing in gaming since.

[@undentifiedusser5623]

beest comment, true description what made wow so damn addicting.

[@zLcss]

Love what you said. Totally agree. Are you still playing ?

[@Tantalis77]

@@zLcss I do not, the feel of the game had changed for me right after wrath came out and I lost the motivation to continue. Also my account was stolen after they switched to battlenet because I was slow to transition. Wow now exists only in my memory, pretty vividly and always appreciated

[@johnathan4185]

if you want the vanilla exp, just google lights hope vanilla server. its free and runs really well, 100% the classic exp.

[@Tantalis77]

@@johnathan4185 I mean besides the fact that everything isn't new anymore, part of what made vanilla great for me was how fresh it was.

[@alextygesen3101]

What makes vanilla good is that its a journey, its rewarding and just more engaging, sure. But what IMO makes vanilla perfect is how every trip outside feels like an expedition of sorts. You might be going out for a long time where you see no vendors, so you have to choose what to pick up. You might need to stock up on potions before you do this and that quest, and you may be preparing yourself by picking up a lot of quests around the world to go that one specific place.

[@Hermentotip]

i remember having to grind from 58 to 60 killing mobs in winterspring because i had no more quests... good times xD

[@Mksui]

Hahahah THIS! I remember grinding stone elementals in Badlands to vendor the stones to get my mount at 40! The last mob that made me ding dropped [Gloves of Unholy Might] which i then got bamboozeled to sell for 90g when in fact it was much more valuable, I didnt know or care, I got 90 FRIKKIN' GOLD and my mount.

[@sirBadd]

Good times for its times.. i have a life now, no way I would play a game like vanilla wow today heh

[@hanstsuber8262]

Haha i did the same with my mage , it was my own idea and i killed that Elite mobs Dragons Blue, Cant remeber the name really. But they gave me good ewxp and pretty fair loot. It was also the place where i saw the first bot hunter farming. Sad what the game have become now but at the other side i was pretty addicted. Just eat drink work sleep and rest of the time i play the game.

[@Rinavani]

Did the same thing. Grinded owl beasts until I dinged 60 at like 3am.

[@tkell31]

If you didn't have quests it's because you didn't want to go to another area. There is no way you completed every instance quest and every region quest by 58...impossible.

[@alecantoci6150]

Did anybody else leave your starting area to get reputation with a different one for the mount? The confusion from people seeing a gnome riding a nightsaber was hilarious

[@ihavenoidea4727]

ikr!!

[@clawhammr666]

Was good stuff, I had Darkspear raptor mount on my Orc (yeah I know, same starting zone, but not many darkspear quests) and later think I got exalted with Thunder Bluff for Kodo. edit: Never tried Undercity, I remember Orc Males looked weird on that (one of the earliest char i got mount for was my warlock, which ofc was the felsteed)

[@mervinatrix3995]

I spent hours and hours on my level 60 Gnome Mage AOE farming elementals in Silithus so I could purchase rep with Stormwind and get my horse mount. Felt so bad ass riding that shit around. It was extremely rare back then to see Races on different mounts. I loved all this shit back then, but in reality I would probably wouldn't have any time to do it anymore.

[@mastermenthe]

that dopamine shot at the end of a supertask gives me existential dread, not joy. wth?

[@CosmicCreatorCat]

mastermenthe That's not the dopamine friend.

[@roflmows]

key: remember that in old wow, they were trying to GET PLAYERS TO QUEST TOGETHER. by grouping up, you could meet and make friends. friends then join guilds. guilds then do dungeons, and eventually raids. pickup quests, kill mobs quests, escort quests...ALL easier in a group. this was by design. back then, wow was about having friends and doing things together. why? because with friends, hard content is fun instead of nerve-wracking. friends typically won't leave after one wipe, or yell at you, or call you names, or whatever. with friends, you can LEARN--and doing stuff is all about repetition, learning by messing up, getting back in there and doing it again and again. remember, old dungeons were HARD. scholo, strath, blackrock, dire maul...they were like mini-raids, and that's because they were preparing you for raids later on. you were learning how to CC, how to interrupt, how to listen to directions, how to avoid pulling extra mobs...and how to deal with losing rolls for good items. in other words, you were getting ready to grind out raids, where the good stuff dropped. back then, wow really was an MMO. it wasn't a one-player game where you do everything with weird randos in pugs, like nowadays. back then there was no LFG. you had to actually find people and join groups manually. in a way, i miss it.

[@PatrikGluchowski]

I didn’t need to read the quests.. well because I didn’t speak English back then. And also I didn’t have 60lvl mount in vanilla at all. And I remember I bought the 40lvl one when I was like 55 or something. The thing about Vanilla is that it felt real to me. By that I mean it felt like the game didn’t really want me to have that mount, or to kill that boss. Nowadays the game let you kill and have basically everything. Not to mention that when you met somebody with that epic item, it felt like you met a celebrity just because most of the people couldn’t even imagine the effort to get that. Vanilla was very special.

[@flipboy420]

The rewards for time invested felt appropriate back then when it came to certain aspects of vanilla. Was a much different time indeed.

[@kralkralovsky8416]

i still remember the naxx drops for atiesh i had it on my warlock once when vanilla kicks back in im getting that again ONE MORE TIME

[@muhshell91]

Patrik_ Gluchowski 9th for someone who has only been speaking English for a short time you sure are speaking it very well. Good job, that is no small feat.

[@raistlinmustaine6556]

I remember over a decade ago being blacked out at a party and bragging I was a lol 60 mage with 2 epics lol. Epics meant something

[@NonsensicalSpudz]

Kral, atiesh well likely not be in the game

[@merccc1]

Basically it was the Low baseline for everything. Making the rewards feel more exciting and noticeable, and the sense of danger that you felt was in the world as you adventured seem more prominent. Travel took time and effort, you met people and danger along the way, and even the decision to make that long travel was more meaningful sense it did take time to commit to it. All the low baseline negatives had massive positives that made the experience as a whole better, but seen by themselves they would look to be terrible which is why it is hard to express how it was better. It was the results of the whole put together, not the elements separated alone.

[@me56ize]

No

[@Minervastouch]

Agreed, if you just break it down to its individual elements it would be like eating a pizza one ingredient at a time pre cooked. It wouldn't be anything like the finished product. The finished product of classic vs modern wow leveling is no comparison. One is an adventure with lots of opportunity to meet new people and highs and lows.. It lasts awhile so there is plenty of time to make memories and landmarks for your character progression. The other is an excuse to tell a story and generally a chore because its long enough to be noticeable but not long enough that anything you do before you finish feels like it has any real gravity to your character in the end because everything is so convenient you'll just fly right through it with little of anything worth remembering. There is also the reliance of cutscenes to tell story rather then gameplay... and that is assuming you even care about the story.

[@gabrielmaria2762]

@@Minervastouch I'm almost 60 on SoM and I totally disagree with you. It's frustrating, infuriating at times, I don't feel any connection to the world or my character whatsoever (probably because of limited storytelling - no cutscenes. no, I won't read quest text, it's 2022.). The only thing that felt a little rewarding was the mount, which is also terribly slow. Oh and the moment I remember are the ones when I died because I was sent to moonglade as a hunter at lv 48 to turn in a dungeon quest. Was I supposed to wait till 55 to safely pass the felwood tunnel and only get 30% XP on the quest i worked towards? Speaking of quest XP it doesn't feel like I accomplished a task when turning in a quest because i gathered twice the amount of XP killing the mobs required for the quest. Oh, and the countless quests where you have to collect the most simple items off a mob and they just don't drop (e.g. troll ears - they got 2 ears, but most mobs don't drop any, and if they drop, it's only one per mob). This is just an excuse for bad game design (quests not granting enough XP so you have to supplement that with killing mobs). Not hating, I understand the limitations of 2005, but it is god damn time to move on and understand how current wow is actually a better game, just because of better design, mechanics and storytelling. Modern Wow is so much better at storytelling and immersing you in the world. Plus i feel like 1-60 serves great as some sort of class tutorial, getting you accustomed to your spells in preparation for endgame WHICH IS THE GAME. Classic is just a bad experience in modern times. It was a better game only when it came out, but with the current advances in technology, there is no reason such a relic should even exist anymore. Just for a bit of clarification - yes, I will resume playing shadowlands after my friend reaches lv60 Soul of Iron.

[@Minervastouch]

@@gabrielmaria2762 Modern wow questing is awful to me partly because it is too damn easy. Your mega overpowered, your never inconvenienced, everything is child's play and your never asked to delay gratification while every npc kisses your ass because your the "CHOSEN ONE" or "CHAMPION" for doing banal tasks or tasks that you look back and go... yea there was zero challenge or risk. The way modern wow is now... You should just be able to skip all the bullcrap and get to end game the story is hot garbage and is just an impediment to what people consider the end game. Theres never going to be a universal better game design it depends on who's your audience.

[@primary2630]

@@gabrielmaria2762 So because you admittedly refuse to engage in any form of storytelling the game provides you say it's bad? lol, spoken like a true retail kid. Killing mobs is literally 80% of the game, why is this a surprise to you?

[@Jacqueline_nonya]

Apparently it's been a long time since I played, cause this is how I thought WoW still was.

[@MyViolador]

Saurfang: vanilla player Zappy boi: people that want vanilla

[@jozefkucera8402]

MyViolador u are everywhere

[@jerrybeansman1040]

Quote from "old soldier" that summaries my vanilla/BC experience "Without Armor"

[@MyViolador]

someone has to be

[@63Limar]

@Local Asshole "Without heirlooms?"

[@tnecniw]

"You know you know how it was?! You know me?! What I HAVE DONE?!"

[@FeRReTNS]

I still hold shift to this day to loot, I cannot break the habit!

[@DaereonLive]

Wait... we don't have to hold shift anymore to loot stuff...?

[@DeepfryBabyz]

Daereon, there's a setting in interface options that you can turn on auto loot..So no more shift looting.

[@DaereonLive]

Oh damn, gotta have to look into that :) Thanks!

[@RD-kq3ml]

Same here.

[@jester022679]

Not sure how anyone could not know about the auto loot option. But, in the off chance you are being serious ((LOL)) once you turn auto loot on holding shift and looting prevents you from auto looting.

[@Remdae]

Co-op in vanilla was super fun. Much funnier than now due to more challenging fights and tons of elite quests and mobs to kill durning leveling. Yes it was slower but i enjoyed it more when i had one friend that i leveled all the way from level 10 (we just did our starter zones alone) to level 60. When only one of us was able to play we just did our class quest, catch up in exp after one of us did them or just farm some gold and level our professions. Ah also fact that you needed to find group for dungeons meant that we could just start our own group for a dungeon run. Sometimes i felt that it was designed to be played like this.

[@Remdae]

Ps. trading professions stuff was fun too

[@63Limar]

Yeah, dont forget world pvp advantage if you are not playing alone, and especially if you have class synergy. I remember we were lvl 50 with my friend as Priest + warrior and could kill lvl 60 mages just by playing properly. And probably my best wow experience happened that time, when we were playing at night time in Thousand needles, Shimmering flats goblin location. Wild world pvp that was happening there for limited NPC camp spawns during gorgeus night-time dark sky and white salty grounds.

[@skltr5177]

I used to pvp there on my shaman.... the memories of 1 shotting ppl with wf crits :')

[@thegodemperors45thlegionof41]

I had that kind of experience too. Man, the best things really come from hardships i can tell ya.

[@tewgomoo]

@@skltr5177 dem triple wf crits zomg!

[@juandeag5194]

I actually enjoy leveling in classic and tbc. Especially in Classic, whenever i leveled it still felt like i was playing end-game content. Having to group up with people all the time for difficult quests and dungeons along with the traveltime between quests and such make the game way more impressive. You actually have to go on a small voyage to get to the other end of the world and it just feels like a much bigger and more immersive world. It actually feels dangerous unlike in retail where you are basically a god who can kill anything. Plus getting that talent point at every level makes it feel so much more rewarding.

[@brandonedmonson5578]

Not to mention in the beginning levels of early Vanilla...you usually didn't have enough money to even train the skills as you leveled. You has to be selective as to what skills you would purchase from the trainer. When reaching level 38, I remember spending days farming turtle shells so I could afford a mount at Lv 40. The at level 58, the questline would open for the Epic mount (for Warlocks/Paladins) which required the player to gather groups of people to assist them as well as severely expensive items that could only be purchased from NPC's. Then, once you hit 58-60, the 'Attunement' quests would open up. Places like Molten Core, Onyxia's Lair - and Later, Blackwing Lair required the player to complete a difficult questline to obtain the ability to even enter these raid zones.

[@fuzzy889]

I remember having to run BRD a million times getting everyone in the guild attuned for MC. BRD was a fun place - it felt like such a mysterious place back then. There was so much shit to do in here, so many quests that led there, so easy to get lost. You'd always have to discuss with your group beforehand "Okay, so just what are we trying to do in here? Jailbreak/emp run? Anyone need attunement?" etc. Good times.

[@whytemc3126]

Jail Break was terrible. We would take a short cut through the lava by jumping off at the black anvil for atunement of the core. Wear your fire resist gear. Could you imagine having to go in to a dungeon just to craft items. Crazy!

[@roblikes8435]

Hahaha still remember having to get buffs, ammo, food and potions ready the day before a raid and grinding enough gold and other stuff to actually be able to go :-). That and also making sure your stuff was fully repaired before the raid started. Oh the good old days how i miss you soo.

[@glennchartrand5411]

It took special gear to do some raids ( fire resistance for Onyxia's Lair) and you really had to have it , even if the healers could keep up with the fire damage without the reduced damage from fire resistance your healers would pull agro ...and wipe the raid. Guess where you got the fire resistance gear from? Other raids , so you had to progress through the Raids in proper order , multiple times to gear up your guild. The cities, boats and Zeps mattered , because you actually had to travel.

[@sethraelthebard5459]

I always loved the secondary professions. Fishing specifically. Cooking was useful for healing and buffs, and first aid for quick bursts of health, but fishing could actually make you money! LOTS of money early on! I recall just leveling up my fishing skill in the Crystal Lake outside Goldshire, selling the junk for professions and skill training. Occasionally you would get really lucky and catch a lockbox, filled with valuable trade goods. It felt like a real prize when something unexpected came up.

[@edwarddoe7567]

Most of my BC memories come from the community I engaged with during the leveling process. I enjoyed the grind and difficulty of the game. It's what made end game more rewarding.

[@slateralden4178]

Same. Those I'll remember some of those 2v2 arenas in BC forever

[@CyclopsToppingWolverine]

I M M E R S I O N that is all

[@cjwalklin2278]

150,000% correct!!

[@SinerAthin]

Indeed, Having to walk everywhere/being weak/no easy flying grounded the experience somewhat... and made you feel more like a part of the world.

[@Xastabus]

I had the exact opposite reaction. I feel more immersed in the world now than I ever did in the year of WoW's release. It's interesting to note that back in the day I played FFXI before WoW came out. That game absolutely required players to team up in balanced parties to level while WoW didn't. With the option to play alone, even at a slow pace, it seemed to me that's mostly what people did on my primary server. It was rare for me to run into anyone who wanted to party up. WoW just felt isolating to me rather than immersive. I did get in a guild but with my schedule limitations as a working adult it seemed everyone outpaced me. Today? There are more options. You can race to max level if you want to, but you don't have to. You can level slowly and enjoy the story. With level scaling we have more opportunities to party up with people. I've been invited to more leveling parties since 7.3.5 than I did in an entire year of "Vanilla". Everything people are siting as positives for the "Vanilla" experience were massive negatives for my experience. It just wasn't enjoyable for me back then the way WoW has been since I returned in Legion. Sure, there are things I miss about the way WoW was back then, but on the whole I feel WoW is so much more immersive and engaging now than it was back then.

[@CyclopsToppingWolverine]

Taegan, that's completely fair. Different strokes for different folks, I personally enjoy the gameplay of (most) classes and PvE group content more in Legion/BFA/current, but the overall MMO experience that I fell in love with has been left back in Vanilla. I enjoy having to make my character known to people within the game by my feats, or just being a cool person over time and playing more. While I can technically do that still, it's not as meaningful in current. And while I enjoy the gameplay more on live, I also love the vanilla style, very slow and clunky, like actual medieval combat (with some fantasy mixed in). I loved feeling like to improve my character I couldn't just be a hero and kill everything, I needed to make friends or ask for help with a certain quest or dungeon. It felt like a real journey to me. I don't get that in live, but I still enjoy it.

[@Beenbarian]

It's not immersive when you're teleporting everywhere. Not to shit on dungeon finder, it's very convenient, but it ruined WoW's immersion for me. It doesn't feel like a world when you can just stay in the capital spamming instances. In vanilla, people remembered your name and added you. I think after Cata I probably added about 3 or 4 people to my friends list. This is just because people would just come and go and adding them was pointless. I didn't need them to heal a dungeon because literally anyone could do it. It allowed for skilled players to be rewarded because it was hard, you wanted to add good players. Now, you could get the #1 tank in the game to join your dungeon and you wouldn't even notice he was really good

[@Mesisir]

Vanilla was an RPG. Current WoW is just an action game with RPG elements

[@rattlehead999]

+Mesisir I think that until Wrath and even Cataclysm to a lesser extent it was an RPG with action elements, after that since MOP it has been 50/50 in terms of RPG/Action, with legion maybe being 40/60 RPG/Action with all the stat removals and the new(and for me very welcomed) random personal drop/loot system.

[@RoderionXanith]

Wat

[@Skullcrausher]

That’s so true I never heard someone say that

[@rattlehead999]

+عبدالله I've been saying that about the elder scrolls games and fallout games for a long time. Edit: Along with the Witcher 3 it's is trully an action-adventure hack and slash with RPG elements compared to the first two games in the series. Still excellent game none the less.

[@breka3482]

Coranac agreed he isn’t making any sense at all

[@konstantinkunz2256]

One said before the Classic Design is a good simulation of the world, like for the example the one guy in the mage district asking you if you go to the Stonetalon Mountains and if you do if you could get him some basiliskparts for the restaurant. From questing design it makes no sense sending someone half across the world just to do one task. From in world design it totally makes sense because you hire someone to do something you can not (easily) do like going across the world. Meanwhile in Cata the system whas changed to primary good game design as it is making more sense to just have tasks cluttered in one area and then go to the next area once you are done. It also makes sense having less downtime with regeneration as just sitting there and rest is not so fun. But yeah different playstiles make different fun. The fun of the one is the boring of the other.

[@EDMGmbH]

Nowadays in WoW ure just a rebirth of an Titan which kills everything easily and go straight forward to finish the late game. Back in vanilla everyone was just a headhunter or a nameless soldier who had to make his way to the top. U where nothing and became a legend. Traveling by his own, skilling Differently from others, eating and drinking, visiting taverns (for xp boost), crafting items, finding chests is just an RPG feature which dies in modern WoW. And class quests are the true way of the Titan. Why should a random mob be weaker than you at the start? It's like you. Nothing, a not important person. Make your way and you become the person who reached grand Marshall or the dude who killed onyxia. And the people will follow you to the battleground or the raid and everyone will know "this dude did it, let's go with honor"

[@GoodVulture]

i once saw someone put it quite well: in vanilla you were a nobody doing heroic things, in retail you are a hero doing mundane things

[@tedstudt8550]

And how many of camilla's features are directly rooted in d&d. Having played through a few sessions of it really gives a good view of the type of stuff blizzard was going for, and makes you appreciate it that much more.

[@tedstudt8550]

Vanilla* not camilla.

[@MrMhtmht]

I have played nearly every MMO and never found any MMO that made leveling similar to WoW. It wasn't simply that it took hours to go from a to b by foot, it was the landscapes, the stories, the whole immersion.

[@0steverobb0]

I miss a ton about the vanilla game, those long ass quest lines were so well written and you had such a feeling of accomplishment when you finished them. I miss attunements and the hard/fun quests for them, and I miss getting a PUG together to run something and everyone actually spoke to each other. This video brought back a bunch of great memories, including wondering just where exactly was Mankirk's wife?

[@latjolajban81]

Ye when you got that Onyxia key... was like YES!!!

[@BuccLife]

Vanilla Questing was remembered because you didn't have quest helper. I remember writing quests on index cards and going on Thotbot for the right location.

[@kaisteen4616]

BuccLife buffed.de was the Place to go for me (tbc tho)

[@BuccLife]

Never heard of it, i was mainly on Thotbot, WoWhead and ElitistJerks for help.

[@MalonzeProductionsGaming]

i still have all of the raid and dungeon maps printed out with notes and highlights where bosses are since there was no dungeon maps

[@dacruise4439]

And still Mankriks wife was nowhere to be found :P

[@dacbiet]

Wow I haven’t heard about Thottbot for ages. I still remember about EJ for BIS stuff.

[@ccfreakMetal]

I liked the old leveling experience, you met so much people in your travels when questing!

[@surg23]

I started when BC landed. Even then the experience was much more pure than today's wow. Most things you did had meaning and it felt good. Took me ages to afford lvl 40 riding and mount, but it meant so much because I worked my butt off for that. What killed wow for me was they just gave everybody everything and nothing was special after that. I also hated that they removed the talent system and screwed with professions.

[@gaunterodimm3606]

I think those are some reasons in the large decline. Nothing felt special any more with out talent trees, useless professions, and no class quests.

[@TheRealHypervizor]

Except, all of those things are still in the game. Talents are back just not in that much detail. Professions have perks. Class quest returned with legion but are gone again in BFA, but have been replaced sorta with fraction related quest for the war effort.

[@gaunterodimm3606]

The LakesideView No, the talent "system" is the same cookie cutter system they came out with at the end of cata when the talent trees were killed. Profession perks have been around for a long time and though it looks like they did improve the professions they still look a bit hollow. Faction quests, garrison quests, meh, its all just more cookie cutter quests. Problem is those items were RPG items. Since they removed or nurfed those things and made other changes to the game has been a ghost of it self and feels more MMO-RPG lite because everything became cookie cutter post cata.

[@Solereaper21]

Adam W you can’t complain about “cookie cutter” quests and then praise vanilla. Literally 50% of quests were “kill these guys until you get 10 boar livers”

[@gaunterodimm3606]

Grimdrome I can complain and I did complain. Just because you disagree does not stop me from posting, that's not how the world works. However maybe you should READ wtf some one posts before responding since quests are barely mentioned and not the subject of what I posted. You reply looks incoherent since it is on a totally different subject.

[@NeoGee]

6:18 About the gear, I have a level 20 hunter that's been sitting in Darkshore since BC ( he was in Auberdine until that was destroyed in Cata and I had to move him to Lor'danel) and some of gear is still grey and whites, I haven't given him any Heirlooms because I want him to be a reminder of how things were, like how scary Darkshore when you first arrived. He also still has a two handed sword quipped lol

[@slipi]

Its like you said, the vanilla questing was the main game or at least a very big part of it.The modern questing (leveling) is just something the keeps you away from the end game, which is the main game today.

[@RoderionXanith]

SLIPI the game is what you make it, if you want it to be a race it will be, why not cherish everything you go through and enjoy the game that wow has grown to be

[@Cr4zyBE]

yeah, but in the actual scene, all the players wants to go for the end game content... but in vanilla was more important the travel than the endgame...

[@slipi]

It's not only about what you do, obviously I can turn off leveling all together and just explore and enjoy the story of a specific zone. But the game itself is built today to guide and push the player to the end game very fast because that's where everybody else is and that's where the new content is. (The new leveling revamp made it better though).

[@skltr5177]

everyone forgets that one of the main parts of the game was the global chats

[@ninjii12]

SLIPI and luckily they just increased exp gains again, that 60-80 was a struggle

[@Imgema]

Even though it was harder and longer, i enjoyed Vanilla more because it was more rewarding at the end. Vanilla rewarded the more "hardcore players" anyway, which i liked. Like how not everyone could have epic gear items (let alone full sets). Now everyone can easily have "epics" which beats the purpose of "epicness" in the first place. What's so epic about something that is common?

[@jake06750]

Imgema Yes, I agree. Reminds me of the Carrot on a Stick quest line was ultimately a barely noticeable speed increase, it was an adventure. Trinkets were very rare and hard to find outside of dungeons and raids and I actually felt like I earned it.

[@bagoftricks6985]

I can see how you think that, but in essence, the 'rewards' haven't changed at all. An epic item was epic because it was rare and time consuming to get. Now it's more about world rank/team composition. Method players play 15+ hours a day during progress and countless hours outside of it, with 5+ classes up to date and ready to go. Gear is a means to an end rather than the reward realistically. Rewards are the same, it's just more technical and less 'RPG', which I can definitely see the appeal of (and millions of other people too). I thoroughly enjoyed leveling on vanilla servers, very unique and fun experience.

[@turencmpressor4152]

BagOfTricks that’s the point he made, tho. Everything was just more epic/rewarding in vanilla. Instead of having to grind arenas and play get to the highest rank, just doing this one hard thing to get that one epic item that barely anyone has.

[@bagoftricks6985]

That's not the point I made - the point I made is that the reward is the same essentially, vanilla just being more classic 'epic journey' RPG whilst retail being more competitive/rank based. It's a preference thing. Neither is more/less rewarding than the other, it's just the way in which the reward is given and the feeling of accomplishment that it carries.

[@Imgema]

The difference is that it was harder in Vanilla to acquire epics so it was a more rare sight. Basically, you had to be in a good raid guild and be very dedicated to it. I remember very few characters running around in the cities, having full epic gear. Now it's so common that everyone has purples. Only characters who are leveling or just hit max level don't have epics. It's like "everyone is special" which means nobody is.

[@stelioskotsifos2227]

I remember when I finally was able to get my 1st mount, on my 1st character, an orc warrior. I was, by then, lvl 46. And when I got the mount I almost stopped questing and was just travelling around the world with my new AWESOME mount.... To get an idea of how excited I was about finally getting the mount, when achievements were introduced in the game, I instantly got the World Explorer achievement with my warrior, which was still left at level 60 then. Everything felt a lot more rewarding back then. I can still remember the moment I hit level 60 with my warrior and it's the only instance that I remember about reaching level cap in the game.

[@visoth7791]

Leveling from 1-20 as a hunter on a private server was 20x (no exaggeration) more fun than leveling from 110-115 (where I am currently stuck at). When I login to current WoW, forced to quest to get to the new endgame, I play for 20 minutes or so before I am bored enough to just alt+f4. When I first tried a classic private server, I spent no joke 6 hours in one sitting questing from 1-10 (? might of higher or lower) and enjoyed every minute of it. Current WoWs leveling is garbage. I await vanilla WoWs return.

[@misanthropiclusion]

Nostalgia googles are strong with this one

[@visoth7791]

Yeah, when I played classic WoW about 6 months ago, I had a blast. Good times. Things were so nice 6 months ago in classic WoW. I have so much nostalgia from 6 months ago /s

[@roblikes8435]

"I await vanilla WoWs return" Me to man, me to :).

[@robertAnthonyColon]

@@visoth7791 classic wow don't exist yet.

[@jakubmazur1576]

@@robertAnthonyColon It will, in a few months. And we are coming home, boys, after all those years.

[@zytralus]

I think they are 2 extremes. Sometimes I wish there could be a compromise between grinding and grinding for days and just having pretty much no game before max level. The only thing I really miss though is communication between players, when you're leveling up and go to a dungeon nobody even says hi most times. We used to talk and 'grats each other for leveling up. Sometimes I feel like people don't enjoy playing the game anymore.

[@Shiirow]

Blizzard isnt built for happy mediums, neither is the playerbase. they either want "tie a 50 lbs weight to your nuts, dragging it while walking up hill" bullshit grinding for a single level or what we have now. its like the complaint about daily quests. they bombarded you with hundreds to do... people complained "Too many dailies!"... what was Blizzards response? get rid of all dailies period. Sweeping pendulum swings is Blizzards MO.

[@fostinator69]

Those damn hoofless zhevra

[@SC2Turnip750]

I was more concerned about the number of headless raptors.

[@Evghenios79]

bbb only vanilla questers will get that :) i still remember the first time i reached Crossroads...

[@SomePeon]

boy these took many hours lol

[@kinio73]

Salty Scorpid Venom, still have nightmares

[@sdownin72]

QUEST GIVER: Collect 20 bear asses. BEARS: *10% chance to drop an ass.* 200 bears later...

[@xArkanianx]

Vanilla WoW was made for a different generation of gamers. It was the apex of the Everquest game model. Modern gamers aren't willing to dump their entire lives into a game, which is what the "hardcore" players (be they raiders or HWL's) did back in the day Also worth remembering that Vanilla WoW was significantly easier than Everquest.

[@michaelsotomayor5001]

I think Blizzard is trying to cater to their own player base.. that has been with them for over a decade now.. they work they have families so their time is tightly shifted.. meaning they have geared the game for the original fan base.. they can only dedicate a few hours a day. I think this is what Blizzard did.. Maybe keeping the old fan base is easier then trying to create new fan base.. since well nowadays maybe WoW is seen as bad as Minecraft maybe? I'm just speculating. It's not like kids are raving about WoW.. they go play fortnite lol

[@Terestrasz]

One of the reasons we're not willing to dump our entire lives into a game? ....cause we're now in our 20s and older. I was able to put up with all the EverQuest type of stuff back in the day because it's very easy to when you're a teenager, unemployed, and too lazy for honours&AP. We were alright with it - we had a lot of time. now we don't. :/ I wouldn't call it "laziness", just "efficiency". If you only got two hours to play a day, you need to feel like you're actually doing something.

[@jgkitarel]

It was also better in a lot of ways, as WoW was _tested_ by the EQ crowd, who gave a lot of feedback to blizzard on what was working, what wasn't and what needed tuning.

[@manaeth]

Michael Sotomayor id be surprised if today kids even knew what warcraft is.

[@Morpheus-pt3wq]

"Modern gamers aren't willing to dump their entire lives into a game" - and yet they still do it and the game feels like you have to do it in order to stay competitive with others. In other words - you must still grind, but the grind today has no soul. Just log in, make a round of daily quests, daily dungeons, daily pvp and log out. It´s the same as going to work, only difference is, for work you´ll get money, but for wow you have to pay.

[@gunblade250]

Leveling was definitely more rewarding but the end game was a nightmare. Trying to wrangle 40 people even when you were in a solid guild and then running the same 3-4 instances every damn day just to gear up people that were probably going to quit anyways. We wiped countless times farming MC because people were most focused on the vent conversations than the instance because it was so damn boring. Good memories though, and damn good people that I wished I’d stayed in touch with.

[@thenerdbeast7375]

As great as the conveniences of modern leveling are, the original leveling experience was much more enjoyable.

[@Trivity_]

I enjoy both versions. They cater, as you say, to different kinks. They both may be warcraft, but they sure as shit ain't the same game.

[@MrSinfold]

yeah, one is a game, the other is a joke

[@MrSinfold]

crying about my opinion huh

[@Sorrowdusk]

kinks.....

[@cloud_and_proud]

Nah, modern WoW has gone a long way from Warcraft.

[@CWR032]

Not only are they not the same game, they attract a different type of player. Vanilla players didn't mind or even enjoyed the grind to max level or for rep, the new ones jump in with a level boost and want everything right now so they can get into raids and suck.

[@GigachadVTuberEnjoyer]

You damn kids! Back in my day you would sit in alterac valley for hours on end for no rewards and you were happy to do it!

[@edwardsteinjolt3720]

There has been so much time since I've Las seen a true vanilla player, most guys nowadays are bluffs, but you bro, you brought all those amazing memories about the game that stole my heart. You made me remember those little details, like having only copper in your pockets, silver when you were higher and I remember taking half a year to get to 60 on my first char, only to be able to barely afford my lvl 40 mount (almost no one had epic mounts) the world felt immense, huge, you felt like a true adventurer, getting to gadgetzan for the first time, all the quests in 1kneedles, all the AMAZING lore, indeed it was an unexplored world were you had to train your skills and abilities to survive out in the wild, and that is to me the biggest difference, new wow has everything packed and ready to go, while vanilla had to be taken seriously and invest all of your avaliable time to get into end game. Guilds were selective, they would audition you before letting you join them, bad players were cast away, true friendships were developed, and great memories were created. Even a Single dungeon like Maraudon had to be taken with proper preparations, it wasn't the Disney spooky house it is now, back then you had to get really prepared, walk to the dungeons in a group, a good Mara run, a good BRD, and other classic dungeons could take a month to complete fully, you had to get keys, attunements, and class quests like warlock or Pala mounts were legendary. Hell you even had to train the damn weapons after getting a new sword or staff, and most people would specialize Into an specific branch and knew their game. And raiding..... I don't even wanna go there....AhnQuiraj was reserved for the elites, Molten Core was a true legendary adventure, and most of us didn't completed it until true months of attunements, specific raid gearing, and preparations like being high alchemists or field medics... It was a true and unique game that made you immerse into it and would absorb you. The events, the dungeons, the questing, the legendary raids.... Meeting a full T2 back in the day meant respect, and Meeting a T3 back in the day was meeting a legend.... The game was so difficult at end game, that many years later they had to redo Naxxramas because in all honesty, Mos of us were in D3 with some t1 or T2 pieces when it launched... And only a very small part of the players were able to experience it. The old Wow was a place we're you would become a true adventurer, this new wow, took all of that, made it more player friendly and time friendly, and saved that essence into high end raiding while making the rest of the game a medieval theme park with new attractions now and then. Let us never forget about the good old tinfoil servers that made our younger years happy and all the friends we made in the way! *I'll drink to that! *

[@EndbossProductions]

I like your comparison to a theme park - it really doesnt feel real or dangerous anymore.

[@BurakkuHishou]

Vanilla wow was certainly a more grand experience. Your definitely right with the incremental power gains, it certainly felt that way, plus they actually made the later zones more intensive so that you really felt as though you've graduated from a fledgling adventurer to a hardened warrior. I'd say I like the old system better, because now there's an entire world out there that's...mostly forgotten for all the end game stuff. Gear is practically everywhere and it's more strange for you not to be in full purple 1-2 days after you hit max level than not. Back in the old days purple gear had to be earned, and having more than 1-2 pieces marked you as a legend. Nowadays there's no real aspiration to have when everyone is so kitted out.

[@tedstudt8550]

Not to mention getting a really good piece of gear from a dungeon or dungeon quest. Yes, Triprunner's Dungarees were on the mind. Great pants.

[@V-Guard_77]

Spot on, but was the social aspect also different? I think people talked and behaved differently. I made friends from all over the world, and while we were TRYING to level, we would talk about so many things...Friendships were more real (helping, fighting, chatting hanging out) although it was online. One guy even talked to some of us in the guild about his painful parent's divorce. He claimed it was WE, who never saw him, helped him a lot more than his doctor. So many other things...and it is weird when you think about it now, but I kinda miss it. Today it's just 'hi, go, ty, wait, lol, gj,' Maybe It's because I was younger then :)

[@monkeygolfer]

I think the social aspect has definitely changed. While I started in BC I got heavily into the game during WOTLK. I made so many friends that I'd hop on ventrillo with and play with. Now every time I rejoin wow for a month or so I never have that experience Also I miss class quests and talents. I remember hitting level 30 and being so excited to get my berserker stance as a fury warrior. Also hitting 60 for titans grip was such a cool experience.

[@Tiptup8]

Yeah, the community did become a factor as well. I feel over time as Blizzard catered to a small, select group of players it adversely affected everyone's social experience in the game.

[@criticalmass3993]

Van VLad One of our warriors in guild was somewhere around 14-15y old and he was bullied trough entire of hes school years so he really had low self-esteem, so our GM's and officers who were close to being middle aged family guys made him our main tank and surprise surprise after a while when he was given some responsibility and compliments for "job done well" he eventually gained confidence and realized he is not loser. So in a way WoW worked like therapy if you found right people around you, i still view my guild as second family even after 10 years, the bonding with people was real deal back then.

[@V-Guard_77]

Critical Mass Exactly... and I also had friends like that. Their parents were disapproving games for being too violent, which I couldn't disagree more, cause for those guys, being with us, it was the friendliest place on earth for them. I hope that warrior from your guild is doing OK now, keeping it casual and 'facing the opponents', 'stances', 'titan's grip' and all that :), I wish them all the best

[@V-Guard_77]

Your Average Programmer Warriors were the real thing! Too bad I was so bad at playing as one :D Lucky for me, there were Paladins...and hunters

[@somzer]

You can compare apples with bricks. IMO WoW lost its "soul" (God, that sounds cringy) exactly because of these dissimilarities and what came with it. Without heirloom items, quest "helpers" having to run (a lot), replenish h/m after a few fights, and fighting generally more difficult battles forced people to communicate and value cooperation and loot more. Much more. Which, I think, is rather important in an "Massive Multiplayer" game, and more fun too. Because it was harder people were generally nicer to one another also. Hell, I remember teaming up with an UD rogue to finish a couple of quests, as a NE hunter, on a bloody PvP server. And then there's an RP element. Now, hardcore roleplaying is besides the point, what I'm talking about is talking to people in general channel to find some to do a dungeon with, then simply having to run to the entrance of a dungeon with another player to summon the rest. It actually felt like you went on a grand quest instead of just being dropped into a random, non-communicating group of hyperactive kids using RDF who just want to rush through it all, be it quests or dungeons. And honestly, I think it was better. A lot.

[@ArtoMcBaddass]

#1 alliance and horde can't communicate, at least not in game. #2 you can't join a party together, and first person to tag the target with damage gets full credit for the kill. #3 there aren't even that many quest areas where you could run into each other in that sort of situation in WoW it's been about 10 years, but off the top of my head I remember stranglethorn vale (and ratchet) wherever you got timbermaw hold rep... in fact i think it was just that, only areas that had mutual rep going for both factions. Point is, in vanilla wow there were only a few key places where both levels quested simultaneously where literally every expansion after had pretty much all new areas (aside from new starting race areas) contested territory. #4 Horde kills Alliance on sight if they have any skill about themselves at all. What I'm saying here is, that story was unlikely and really one of a kind if it actually happened. But the rest of what you say has a point. WoW is focused on end-game content and everything else is nothing.. Like the video says, in vanilla, leveling WAS the game. The leveling took you a long time and forced you to walk through their world... A LOT. This meant that in those areas with contested territory, world pvp was very real, very alive, and actually very fun.

[@t3ddyb34r5]

@Abu Misir What's wrong with trying to sound like a native speaker of a language? That's a good thing.

[@trancebodega2739]

100% spot on. RPGs should be RPGs. Blizzard does not want WoW to be an RPG anymore.

[@DivineAtheistWannabe]

Holy shit! Now that you mention it.....I did actually team up with some Alliance while I was playing Horde. To kill some NPC's for quests. Lmao. And also, guildies would ask if I wanted to quest with them in some zones. It's all coming back to me now.... Lol. Been so long I'd forgotten

[@somzer]

​@@ArtoMcBaddass Sigh. I'm not even sure what to feel about that comment. Was that an attempt to discredit me? Because you should know better. Alliance/Horde CAN communicate in more than one way, and yes, in-game. For one, emotes. If someone's typing /help targeting you, then /point at a mob (or vice versa), it clearly indicates they want your help with the targeted mob. That's communication. Rudimentary, but effective. Also, translators exist(ed), macros exist(ed), so if as an alliance player, you macro/type in "17 13 34 3 1 p" (common language, without the quotation marks) the horde players will see "me lo ve y o u", while "ž 1 ž" will show up for them as "l o l", and "Š 1 À 3 ž ž" will show as "n o k y l l". But apparently the existence of horde/alliance translator was forgotten since I left... Party isn't needed, communication more complex than that isn't needed, all you need is (unspoken) mutual agreement to not kill each other first chance you get, but instead kill elites twice, once for you, once for them.

[@Aquwert]

I have just returned to the game and i can't believe how easy it is. Quests are incredibly easy, mounts early level, new levelling system is unrewarding, dungeons are WAY too easy

[@jujucasar2003]

all i remember about wow classic was the time i was on my lvl 40 priest just got shadow form. And 2 rogues level 48 and lvl 49 tried to gank me. They just sat in a full fear and got face melted. Ya the rogues were shit no there was no cloak of shadows but it was just satisfying to make them my bitch at such a lower level.

[@Ayoub_Awesat]

Lol

[@sammehlberg6664]

Vanilla really knew how to make things feel epic and worth it. Hitting 60 or getting your first mount was such a huge achievement. Really had to learn to play a class well back then

[@etherstrip]

I liked that the lore made you feel that too. You really where a noname to the npcs, and slowly gained fame when reaching max level. I hate that "please save us you great hero" you get right as you create your char those days.

[@Levitaz4236]

"mass genocide on wolves to get four paws" love it hahaha

[@faultyalgorithm-sf]

The zone design was a big factor for me. We don't really have believable zones nowadays, they have truly become questing zones. Everything is there for a reason, optimized for a quest or a WQ elite spawn. I kind of miss the large open spaces where you could wander and explore. Some zones in MoP got a bit of that feeling back though, with the treasures and the overall mysterious ambience. I'm not even sure a zone design similar to Vanilla would work on me today. It's just that what I remember fondly about old WoW questing is aimlessly roaming big open areas, while I have almost no recollection of the hundreds of random quest objectives I completed.

[@KveruLars]

That's called nostalgia. The main (and almost only) reason people think they want WoW to be like Vanilla.

[@Sorrowdusk]

Nostalgia by Veidt.

[@むうむう牛チャン]

Something about running through that vast open expansive field of the Barrens.. *Sigh* Just fun times all around... nothing as far as the eye can see. Filled with cows and birds... So... Much... fun.....

[@turbotrup96]

LarzIBoY my theory is that: it's called atmosphere. WoW felt more like a journey that challenged you. Now it feels like a walk in a park.

[@phillmoore1561]

Most people who dismiss vanilla as simply"nostalgia", never played it.

[@BuccLife]

There was a reason why I had 8 max lvls back during BC/Wrath. The lvling was very enjoyable and I had no life.

[@spiritwildfiregaming1975]

You said something that most Vanilla players should say, but don't: They had no life. Because for a person with a lot of free time and no worries in real life- WoW was perfect But for a busy person- it was hell. Literally hell.

[@latjolajban81]

SpiritWildfireGamin Well. You could still play Wow. In vanilla I had just started college and was working part time, and raiding. And taking dance classe 2 nights a week lol. Everything just took way longer to do in vanilla. I levelled a warrior as first character. When I hit lvl 60 it had taken me 2 weeks in played time. I also rerolled alliance after a year or so and raided for a couple of months before TBC launched. All while being in college and working part time.

[@kingofheavymetal]

Still, the quest nowadays are far better than BC/Wrath one, and those are my favorite xpac nostalgia wise.

[@MemphisMitchV]

When I started playing,it was just before TBC. So I got a taste of Vanilla. I had a blast. My friend turned me on to it. He was like "dude you gotta check this game out!" He told me what it was all about and I was hooked. I loved every second of it. It was an adventure. You weren't just rushing to max level. You were growing. You were building the perfect toon. You quested hard and fought hard to get stronger so you could explore the next area. The drive to see what the next area had in store for you was so strong. The world was so big! I remember taking my time running through just about everywhere so I could enjoy the scenery. With each zone being so different. I quit shortly before cata was released. I dont regret it. All this talk of the classic wow being revived has peaked my interest though. I think it's great and will offer alot of us old school players some nostalgia while giving new players a way to visit the roots of the world they play in now.

[@matthieulambinet9522]

Thanks for the great memories you gave me with the video. I spent so much good moment at that time and miss it so much.

[@Nipah.Auauau]

I remember I was on my human mage and went to do a class quest where you had to kill a bunch of dangerous mobs, but there was an undead mage already there doing the same quest (this was a pvp server btw). I ended up helping her kill the mobs and quickly regening her h/m with polymorph and she ended up returning the favor. It was probably just the two of us in the whole zone at the time. These days a random ally could show up and take down an elite with you without ever grouping thanks to individual loot and they'll mount up and run away before you can even /thank them.

[@MrSheckstr]

Did the same thing as a Human pally and I ran into a Ogre warrior up in the undead region in the north east. I was waiting for my group of regulars and just killing beasts and skinning them (for some reason at the time my Pally was an herbalist and skinner, probably because I ran with a group that had tailoring, leather working and inscriptions and I traded stacks for completed gear) so this ogre was clearly on a a quest to kill wolves or some sort of beast and I just started helping him after he struck first and then skinning after he looted. … after he left dude created an alliance character just to say hi. That’s what the game used to be, a place for people to meet people and be decent to each other and now………

[@Nipah.Auauau]

@@MrSheckstr Of course there was plenty of griefing/camping too but it's the rare glints of humanity in a game that allows both to happen where the real memories come from.

[@Alain7896]

This makes me more excited for classic. I love that you were actually forced to team up.

[@robertAnthonyColon]

Jake Hill poor baby, he wants to chat to people. People shouldn't be forced to chat. I'm and out get shit done and leave

[@brettw7444]

classic servers will be shut down within 1 month cuz no1 will play them. hhave fun kiddo

[@Alain7896]

@@brettw7444 I will.

[@foster5188]

Tom Peterson you're dumber than a fucking brick i put my life on it that more people will play classic than retail everything literally makes 100% more sense on vanilla compared to retail, i do agree with you somewhat tho, THE 12 year olds and little kids wont play them because they'll get shit on but otherwise hell no

[@turencmpressor4152]

Tom Peterson As l’ve said before to you. There are private realms that still operate with a near inactive server population.

[@josephmort4039]

There's a big difference between "being different" and "dumbed down to the point of irrelevance"

[@Wallenquist]

Fuuucck...that water totem quest *triggered* still haunts me to this day.

[@missebet]

Thank you for the walk down memory lane. Got me to thinking how dark and scary and wonderful SIlverpine forest was on my 1st toon., that is still my favorite time leveling, as I had to learn my class and how the game worked. Beware the Sons of Argus!

[@ddot196]

I watch this and go "this is exactly why I WANT vanilla wow back!" I cannot be the only one thinking that, right? lol.

[@dino4941]

I always loved the old leveling experience. Its this slow but steady slog through the swaps. Hard, unforgiving and difficult but at the end of it, you feel accomplished by the progress and you learned your class. Especially when you try to beat mobs you are not supposed to beat alone.

[@MrMhtmht]

I still remember leveling my weapons lol

[@joeriwerk2366]

People on teamspeak raging because you were levelling unarmed during raids

[@angelmendez6090]

I still have the achievement. :)

[@ruadeil_zabelin]

New weapon type. Miss. aww crap.. miss. Aw crap. Miss.. aww crap. 1... YEAA!

[@honesteagle98]

Who ordered a knuckle sandwich? Master of arms

[@meganjk]

And your unarmed! Running around, punching cows ;)

[@timmyg1015]

as an online game, interaction between players is essential,and making the game hard forces players to communicate and cooperate,you have to help each other to kill the final mob of the quest,you have to spend 1 hour in the city just to get the 5th player for a SM run,and you probably have to spend an entire Sunday afternoon and wipe for 15 times just to finish your SM run. But this is the point of the game,players talk to each other,work together to get things done,i know so many players became friends through a dungeon run,some of them even formed a guild eventually and got really successful with the guild. but making the game easier,more "friendly" to new players and adding the dungeon finder really ruined this game,ppl don't need others anymore,they can do every quest easily by themselves,and they can literally stand in city from lvl 1 to max lvl just by queueing for dungeons. when interacion between players is not necessary anymore,why would you even play an online game?

[@EndbossProductions]

never understood that either. People dont talk anymore in this game

[@Wildcolt]

People have no reason to talk anymore. Any tiny bit of interaction that there could have been, is handled by a whole host of addons now. And player power relative to the enemies you fight is at an all-time high. What is the point in conversing with people? You have no reason to slow down. Just go go go.

[@MakeYouFeelBetterNow]

With Dungeon Finder, PVP servers would feel more empty if everyone just sits in the city. Anyone remember when both Horde and Alliance were entering Onyxia's lair? :) They say there aren't any PVP servers anymore and that you just flag yourself for PVP in your city, is that still a thing? Is there any world PVP anymore?

[@itsjoebro1353]

My main char back in Vanilla was hunter. After seeing the talent tree at 10:42, seeing raptor strike and remembering the melee part of hunters, the quest to get the hunter staff at lvl 60 (that I never got to finish xD). The mount at lvl 40 was a great feeling, even though it was only 60% movement speed increase, not 100%. You also had to use Feign death if you wanted to trap someone, because traps were unusable during combat haha. Scatter shot and freeze trap were really hard to land because they didn't disable dots on target; so for example, if you had serpent sting (or if another class had a dot like a warlock or a shadow priest) on the target, you had to wait until they were over. I can go on and on haha but so much nostalgia. Great job with the video man. You made me remember some really awesome days back then.

[@Kilzu1]

What I remember while leveling during vanilla and TBC is the amount of people I interacted and formed long lasting friendships with (I only played as Healer back then, so only few quests and mostly just running dungeons). Ah the time when you met decent tank while clearing Deadmines and the joy you felt when he/she asked you to join the dungeon grind and adventure towards getting to max level......I fondly with tears in my eyes will hold these memories :')

[@dr.skulhamr3220]

There are those of us who don't race to max level so we can raid. There are those of us who simply enjoy questing. I enjoyed it in 2006 and I enjoy it now. It seems to me a false equivalency to ask one's self whether questing was more fun in Vanilla. I was 12 or 13 years younger. I wasn't the same person.

[@KveruLars]

Roy Winkler Amen.

[@Solereaper21]

Well said

[@gfhsdfhsdfgsfsdfhsdfgsfd4560]

It's definitely less fun now, when everything dies in 2 hits except for the rare challenging mob that dies in 3 hits :O

[@KveruLars]

@@gfhsdfhsdfgsfsdfhsdfgsfd4560 Obviously yoy havent played recently.

[@Ak4ntor]

Thats my problem with the "nostalgia glasses" ive played vanilla and loved it ALOT. but after playing for some time on Pservers it kinda felt like its a game that is COMPLETELY different than what i remembered. I didnt enjoy playing vanilla again, even tho i spend 15+ hours each day at release.

[@lazisawsome413]

1 thing you guys are all forgetting about classic. vent

[@vinnie9458]

Forgot to mention weapon skills. Level your warrior to 20 using only two handed swords and then got a nice two handed axe in black fathom depths? You had to go to a low level mob and have your character constantly hit it until your two handed axe skill was high enough to hit mobs your level. I remember leaving my character afk while he wacked on a low level bear lol.

[@MakeYouFeelBetterNow]

Forgot about that! At some point they ditched that mechanic, but for levelling, it felt more realistic. The little wins.

[@vinnie9458]

@@MakeYouFeelBetterNow lol ya one time a mage would be confused and mess me up by killing the mob not realizing what I was doing 😭

[@trancebodega2739]

I played from vanilla up until cata, and from the differences you're describing, theres no chance I'll ever come back. WoW seems more like a massively single player online game. no roleplaying, no exploration, no immersion, no community. just twitchy, rushed, hand-holding bullshit

[@thorndalzockt]

You got the sprit of vanilla right in your vid. Thank you! It was a time I enjoyed, but the game evolved and so did we. :-)

[@bharatbenie]

I barely remember anything from all those months in current Wow but i remember everything from Vanilla. It was more satisfying in general. Everything had more meaning. Ironicly the game has become more of grind today then it was in vanilla, since the majority of the current version is mostly meaningless. Quality of life improvement isen't always positive in gaming.

[@jake06750]

IJSKOUDE MELK I barely remember anything from the time I played Legion and Warlords of Draenor, they just weren’t memorable or all that interesting to me. Especially WoD it was so disappointing. Legion was decent. But I have so many fond memories of vanilla that I may be able to relive in the classic server.

[@CorporalNips]

Same. I can't recall any of the things I did from the xpacs beyond cata, granted I repetitively quit on and off throughout all of cata to current day retail. It just doesn't hold my attention for shit anymore. Everything I "earn" in the game doesn't feel like I earned it at all. Everything that does require "effort" is just a lot of tedious crap that bores me. Also cata guild level introduction was the death of guild communities, became all about the bonuses of a level 25 guild. Just my 2 cents here, but I feel like in vanilla/TBC there was a ton of hidden secrets and fun little things to do that were rewarding when you teamed up with your friends to do them even if the reward wasn't some crazy epic item. Vanilla was less flashy but seemed more enjoyable, now it seems the content is just flashy in appearance and boring in execution. TLDR; my opinion is vanilla was wholesome and modern wow is unrewarding and tedious.

[@temjiu9915]

Definitely. You ask me about vamilla, and I can tell you about when I first got charge on my Warrior, or when my rogue first dinged 40 and I started grinding for my mount. BC? I rememeber so many things about BC it's not even funny. When someone says WoW, The images I get immediately are Shat city....roaming in Nagrand...getting mobbed by elves in Netherstorm. If you ask me about anything Cat and beyond, my usual response is, "Yeah, I played it a bit..." "Yeah, I played legion". The new WoW is smooth, easy, and action oriented...and totally forgettable. the old WoW was slow, clumsy at times, as well as frustrating, But rewarding...and I'll never forget it.

[@rattlehead999]

I haven't played vanilla, but I do miss TBC and WOTLK feeling of each mob(which from what I've read was still easier than Vanilla) and I definitely miss the pre-MOP talent system, they should have kept squishing it like in cataclysm, making each talent give more things. But at the same time, I enjoy traveling faster and leveling up faster. For someone who has already leveled up in many expansions many times on and off blizz servers I have lost intrest in leveling outside the newest/current at the time expansion. Edit: Also I wish the squished the character level, I mean 120 is just crazy... along with the time to level from 1-110 and now 120, I think that they should keep it at a 50 hour quests + (ideally successful)dungeon time to level up to max or at least pre-new expansion levels and about 30-35 hours of quests + successful dungeons with full heirlooms. Man, I guess I'm burnt out on leveling in WoW. :/

[@jake06750]

IIIRattleHeadIII Yeah the stat squish was absolutely necessary because it was crazy seeing people with a million health. Back in Vanilla even just fighting mobs in the open was risky even most non elites could The talent system from Vanilla to Wrath was great. I absolutely hated how the old talent system was gutted in Mists of Pandaria, an otherwise decent expansion. Cataclysm trimmed the talent trees down a little which was fine, but MoP gutted the system to nothing. Having only three choices per tier felt too similar and cookie cutter. Sometimes one of the MoP talents you could choose say at Level 30 or whatever would be useless or just terrible, forcing you to only pick from one or two.

[@rattlehead999]

+Jake Hill I disagree with MOP being a great expansion overall. The first three raids were meh to ok at best and the dungeons were from bad to ok at best. And the timeless isle was an obvious cover-up for earlier content so that you could just skip the three first tier raids and dungeons and go do the admittedly excellent Thorne of Thunder and Siege of Orgrimmar, which were the only good things about MoP, along with Pandaria which is a cool continent and the Pandaren. I'm always up for adding more races from the lore, pandaren were long overdue. Also the monk is a fantastic class. Scenarios were fun but got boring fast. Another problem with MoP apart from the gutting of the talent tree, were the dailies which I hated and hate dailies to this day. Overall personally MoP is my least favorite expansion. Edit: Also PVP was the most borken it ever has been in MoP with many balance patches and in the end the hunter, druid and somewhat warrior were really OP with the frost mage being super annoying(more than it should be) against low mobility classes.

[@jurgenkaiser6445]

Totally agree aboout "Talent Points" I miss them too much.

[@chrisfoley1952]

I remember being so addicted to vanilla wow that I would walk home on my 15 minute breaks to check my items in the auction house. Playing all through the night until the sun comes up. Remembering how rare it was to see a level 60. And having a level 60 take you through instances to help you level that much faster and to get good loot. Those were the days. I haven't played wow in 11q years. But I would play if they brought back vanilla.

[@howfoul3713]

Wow this is an extremely good video so many points were shown that I've never really stopped to think about before. Very epic and makes me very very excited for wow classic now

[@JP-wi2rr]

The game really changed in WotLK, they made it so everyone was able to do anything & get everything. Crossrealm LFR killed guilds. Removing the talent tree made everyone the same. They've generally just made the game continually easier. That's not a complaint, I have alot less time to game than I used to, so I can still play and not feel like I'm holding anyone else back.

[@MintyCoffee]

WOTLK was the best compromise. Even with RDF, dungeons were still challenging, levelling was still relatively tough compared to cata onward, and grinding for resources took actual effort rather than sitting in your garrison for hours.

[@quitethecatnipindeed]

I think LFR came with Cataclysm. I can remember very clearly that I was never able to beat Blood Queen Lana'thel because our guild had only one raid night and it would be around 12 o'clock when we beat Professor Putricide. WotLK DID introduce quest markers, though. Gosh... I remember the way I did quests before those markers... Thottbot all the way.

[@KveruLars]

LFR came in cata or mop. Dungeon Finder came with either Argent Tournament or ICC patch.

[@JenjuroX]

LFR came out at the very end of Cata. Also if LFR is killing guilds then they're not real raiders in the first place as it take close to zero skill to complete a raid in LFR. Dungeon finder wasn't released until around the end of Wrath. The talent tree removal was around end of cata or MOP I believe. WotLK was the greatest expansion and best version of the game in my opinion.

[@gaunterodimm3606]

The tallent "tree" system was removed going into mists. I liked vanilla through cata, mists and after was meh. WotLK was great though, best tallent system of all the expansions imo. I think everything started going down hill after most of the pre-Vivendi merger talent was gone.

[@JmReDP21]

Can’t wait for classic :)

[@pisse3000]

Adrian I wish I had the guts to play on a private server, but I just can't risk it to try to log in one day and the servers being shut down. Classic can't come soon enough! :D

[@brettw7444]

i cant wait for classic servers to shut down within 1 month of release cuz no1 will play them LOL so have in the end you will be ''waiting'' hahahaha

[@turencmpressor4152]

Tom Peterson mate, some private realms stay running with near zero active players

[@italocampoli8643]

don't xpect it to be 1% close to the real vanilla lol

[@ahnoldshort5500]

Adrian nice I’m on Northdale as well, playing a NE Huntard. Having a blast, just hit 30 today and entered STVietnam it’s a god damn warzone and I fucking love it 😂

[@otto5486]

Tbc best expansion! Gonna always miss old talent system, when hybrid builds were possible

[@barbarrox]

This Nostalgia bullshit everywhere. Glad you like it. But BC was the same shit, just saying auto attack pala who destroyed eneryone. Also love how poeple hype the old talent system. In the end any class had 95% the same/the best build. Like in ANY game where you have a talen tree its so stupid. You guys talking like any player was different from another one.

[@gaunterodimm3606]

I loved the talent trees. Even after TBC you could still have some hybrid builds and some really fun, custom, and interesting to play builds in WotLK till they gutted and killed the entire system in cata.

[@arumat4371]

Sure... Your X ability do 5% more dmg. So hybrid

[@VhsVcr]

UGH right? OMG

[@luispeon396]

WotLK did NOT have hybrid builds. Especially not in raiding and an extreme few in PVP.

[@kungfudragon321]

I think your statement of “levelling in vanilla wow WAS the game” really hits the nail on the head. Old wow easily has one of the best levelling experiences out there, and having to slowly but surely work your way up and experience the world around you was a great feeling, and there’s a good reason I used to make several alts because I just enjoyed levelling so much. But nowadays it feels like the game just wants to rush you to max level with a pile of homogenized gear, especially with the level squish and timewalking. Levelling just doesn’t feel impactful anymore when you can have a fresh character be ready for the current expansion’s content after only a few days of casual play.

[@nelfish1234]

i miss the feeling of adventure and comraderie that i had with my old guild and ingame friends.. running to instances and doing things together.. felt like you were exploring and experiencing new stuff all the time.

[@feno12]

Vanilla - You had to work for everything, often with no guarantee of success, its what made it so great, the world was dangerous with area's of Elite Mobs and if you aggro'ed more than one normal mob, you were in for an epic fight. As you say in the video, it meant any upgrades and any successes were felt much more, epic and even blues made you proud when you got them, because of how hard they were to attain. Compared to today where you dont even know half the gear you wear. I honestly believe Vanilla's world was far more immersive and exciting to be within and greatly look forward to the re-release, I just hope Blizz dont undermine the experience with quality of life additions.

[@spiritwildfiregaming1975]

So that's what Vanilla was? Life is almost the same...and that's not a good thing about a game. Otherwise why play the game, if real life is just like it?

[@feno12]

Because without the struggle, there is no value, if you are handed everything on a plate, then you dont value it, back in Vanilla I earned the PvP Warlord Rank and it took damn hard work and effort, it wasn't something just anyone could grind out, it took skill and effort and numerous players were trying to steal the rank away from you every week. Its the same as with Dark Souls, its punishing and cripplingly hard and frustrating, but after you push through, you feel that sense of achievement and worth, that you accomplished something. With WoW, I prefered it when you couldn't do everything, if you didn't have the commitment or raw skill to do content, then you didn't earn it, so it was blocked from you. I want to return to that, I want to have to work and go through trials of blood, sweat and tears to get things and to have the world be cruel to me. Obviously, its very divisive, not everyone would enjoy such an experience, which is why the game now, is far more accessible, but for me, personally, it was far superior to the current game for raw experience. (But I will also concede, that the game now is far more polished, on my server Earthen Ring, the server was down half the week most weeks in Vanilla so I am in no way suggesting the experience was perfect, at all!)

[@feno12]

Exactly, Tim, that is a great summery.

[@RemedyTalon]

Damn I miss Vanilla WOW. my fondest gaming memories are from the early days of WOW.

[@SanMartianRover]

Escape. Es-cape. E S C A P E. Not excape.

[@dalehruszecky9085]

This was actually a brilliant video, thank you so much for putting it together and your insight!

[@classict.j.1311]

These "sane" conveniences watered down the game to the point that players have no need to be apart of the world. Vanilla questing was remembered not because it was a bad experience, but because it took an ounce of effort.

[@sparda9060]

Its now World of Hearthstone : Battle for Subscriptions.

[@iFParasit]

at the end of the day what the human mind is seeking is a chalange to grow and to beat instand gradificationmechanics make u feel better but they get old very quick because what ur doing ahs no purpose everyone could do it and u dotn have to hone ur skills

[@rhinoxbeans]

Who can forget mining one node at a time 😂

[@sillybean32]

And rushing there to beat the chinese gold farmers in Eastern Plaugelands

[@newera478]

It's not a thing anymore?

[@phillmoore1561]

And then you get the failed and have to mine it again

[@kuhnandreas5694]

Even though the modern WoW does a few things better than Vanilla in case of Questing/Leveling ( more diverse quests, better storytelling, animations etc.) it still doesn't outweight the negatives it has. Leveling is the most atrocious thing nowadays, compared to vannilla where leveling was the game. You are not getting rewarded with spell upgrades/gear which makes it feel like a grind from 1 to max level. In vanilla every quest and level up felt rewarding because you actually felt getting stronger.Why the fuck are heirlooms still in the game? Flying should be a max level thing. NPC's nowadays pose no threat at all, which again takes away the feeling of achieving something. You don't need to regen at any time. Your mana doesn't matter. Professions don't matter. Your level doesn't matter. *IT'S AN RPG* All they had to do was not to change the leveling system they had till cataclysm. Now they tried to fix it by just making NPC's have more life and making leveling take longer which doesn't work. My hopes are they will learn from classic wow and make a better game with good Leveling/Questing in the future.

[@krxZGB]

Awesome video. I'd just like to add one VERY important note. In Vanilla half the world mobs were elites! From Jinta'lor to Ogre's in Feralas. Back then having a Mallet of Zul'Farrak was an epic achievemnt, unobtainable without a party full party at lvl 48+. From Wrath on, the same thing was doable at lvl 46, solo...

[@moenbase1]

Most of the things you mention is what I loved about the game. I started playing a month or so before TBC. I loved it to work hard for unique abilities. Druids aqua form, warriors class quests, totem quests. I don't want to be level 60 in a few days. Though money-wise it would have been preferable, in a way I guess. I made every character, had every profession, and with that I wanted to complete all the quests in game. That was my ultimate goal. I didn't care about Raids, or rush to prepare for raids. I liked the attunement quests. I like the slow leveling, getting to know the character. exploring every zone, doing Elite quests. TBC did make it a lot easer, and at some point in WoW they just turned all world mobs in normal mobs. I remember exploring the snowy area, there was some spooky dark place somewhere with Elite mobs. Not many people had business there. But I believe I had a quest there, and if not, it was just fun to check it out. And the 'unfair' part of a high level npc spawning right into your face. Well, just level up some more and try it later. What matters. :) Anyway, I quit playing after Pandora. It just felt.... same old same old. But it was lots of fun at first, for sure.

[@JeroenDoes]

I liked the insanly big maze like dungeons. It rewarded people for exploring the dungeon and learning its secrets instead of just charging through it. Im looking ad you sunken temple and blackrock also a bit of gnomeregan

[@sethraelthebard5459]

The Blackrock Depths. It felt like a truly epic place. Not only for the labyrinthine layout, or the multiple paths you could take, or the sheer number of bosses in a single dungeon. Why was it so grand? Because the lore was part of the experience. So many different paths and quests converged in that cursed volcano. So many whispers of lore you experienced in the climb to 60 came together in BRD. Conquering it gave you access to greater dangers and rewards. Gnomeregan and Sunken Temple also fit that layout as well, but let's not forget the equally confusing Blackfathom Deeps and Maraudon.

[@MakeYouFeelBetterNow]

The Blackrock instances were super confusing and extremely long. If you went the wrong way, you could get respawn, extending your time by another hour, or even forcing you to quit if you wiped or had durability issues.

[@crazycaucasian9342]

God I loved vanilla. My favorite was going up against impossible odds, like elite mobs in the arathi highlands at stromgarde keep. Modern WoW now has nothing like that in it. The closet thing to it was probably in Warlords and doing tanaan jungle and killing the demons at throne of kil'jaeden. But even that was so easy compared to those elites at stromgarde in vanilla.

[@viralvd77]

This wasn't quite Vanilla, I'd been playing a while and it was an alt, but remember taking over 30 mins to kill the wandering elite cyclops in Arathi.

[@crazycaucasian9342]

I think that was vanilla, but not a cyclops right? It was an Earth Elemental right?

[@viralvd77]

Think you could be right.

[@crazycaucasian9342]

There are just so many good experiences facing elites back in vanilla. As a warlock, you could take on pretty much any elite that was fearable. I remember soloing those level 61 (or 62, I can't remember what they registered as) red dragonkin elites that were all around grim batol. SO MUCH FUN!

[@khalduras784]

because for the majority it's *the* first introduction to a mmo and everything was so new and different at that time. A time of learning and experiencing a whole new world together?

[@turencmpressor4152]

Well, ye. A big part of classic difficulty came from how bad players were+not having wowhead n stuff.

[@むうむう牛チャン]

There was always a WoWhead equiv since the game came out. It was called Thotbot and eventually even a mod called "Questhelper". It was an introduction for many people, but the game was incredibly easy compared to Everquest at the time. You didn't lose XP and Levels for dying along with all of your gear. Wow was mega forgiving on that aspect...

[@Keaggan]

Exactly. Which is why i uninstalled after 4 hours. WoW wasnt my first MMO. I started in UO then moved to SWG. Even tried City of Heroes. WoW was horribly grinding and boring....

[@Daniel.RF.Davidson]

You deserve a job at Blizzard making videos. This was awesome. What an amazing job. Congratulations. I loved every minute of this video even though or specially because I`ve experienced all of those things you mentioned.

[@kennylaysh2776]

Really interesting video. I played WoW back when it came out (I was mostly on Lineage 2 at the time, but played some WoW as well), and I quit playing around the time the Blood Elves were added to the game. I have not played WoW since, until two weeks ago when I randomly decided to take a look (being really sick of modern MMO's like BDO and Tera). I knew it was different than I remembered, like I level fast now, I barely die unless I do something really stupid, I can just swap sub classes any time, get a mount at 20, etc...but I forgot a loooot of what you talk about here. And this video helped me realize why I stopped playing back in vanilla WoW, lol. I am actually having a lot of fun with the game now, and didn't know why it seemed so much more fun to explore and play, but I get it now. In 14 or whatever years, Blizzard has really learned a lot. I was shocked to see how many people are still in started areas, like there are always people....everywhere. This is WEIRD for an MMO, because every MMO I have played, starter towns are ghost towns a few months after release.

[@peytonibarra8992]

At the core, they are both the same game. They just have different focuses. Vanilla is a true RPG, a nobody slowly gaining abilities, powers and equipment to be able to defeat the final bosses. Dedicated players were able to experience AQ40 and Nax, because they earned it. Current is also about beating the final boss, but that is now the main focus. It is a more casual experience, almost anyone can raid the newest now. But there is still room for dedicated players to push themselves. Mythic+, world firsts and high pvp rank to name a few. I like Vanilla a little more, but they are both great games.

[@Helvanic]

I played Vanilla & BC back then. And now I've started playing again recently. Your comment is on point, it's exactly how I feel.

[@katemcdonald6134]

Exactly. They HAD to streamline a lot of things that were just stupid and unnecessary. Like ranks of claw, bite etc for hunter pets. Having to level them separately from yourself. Kinda miss the ammo....the "deadzone" I don't miss AT ALL. Man that used to be hell in BGs lol. All they had to do is stay just out of melee but too close for ranged. Buttheads. The flint and tinder to be carried around. Carrying around soulshards, totems. Took up bagspace. Now we have MORE crap to carry around. I think where people's nostalgia comes from is...you were a different person when WoW Vanilla launched. They had no clue what they were doing yet. All this was a new thing. MMOs. They were wingin' it and it took off. We are not the same people as we were 15 years ago or whatever it's been now. Most of us 'grew' up an don't have the time we used to but I totally agree. Someone casual like me can do a little raiding but if I really wanted to push in I could...probably....maybe...but I'm a collector, achiever type.

[@babissj4]

Reboot this game. they want to make as much money as they can without a real effort I stopped playing when mists of pandaria came when they lost it completely with the story .. stop updating a 2005 game just to get money