Vanille: Dealing with Guilt (Final Fantasy XIII Character Analysis)

[@firstgenesis8925]

I love how important she was to the first game so much to the point that they were almost tempted to make Vanille the main character……..literally she’s the only character in the party that is tied to each of the the other party members in some way. Even Serah and Dajh as well……I almost wish she stayed as relevant through the next two games

[@wanderingbardgaming]

Oooh I didn't know they almost made her the MC! It does make sense though from a perspective of FFXIII alone, but thematically for the trilogy I think a lot of the theming (which I want to break down in future videos) is tied more to Lightning's arc, so I say they made a good choice. It would have been nice to see her have more of a role in future games though, yeah.

[@firstgenesis8925]

@@wanderingbardgaming yeah they ultimately went with Lightning because they already advertised her as the lead but I feel like even if they went with Vanille they could’ve still probably done a trilogy considering how relevant Vanille was to everything in the first game

[@wanderingbardgaming]

@@firstgenesis8925 oh I've no doubt that they could have still done a trilogy with Vanille! It would have definitely been interesting to see what kind of story they came up with if they had. I was just thinking about a lot of the theming (as it ties in to the beliefs/ideas of the gods in FFXIII) and how Lightning's arc ties heavily in with it.

[@unbothered5240]

What's interesting is they clarified this. Ff13 was initially meant to be Vanille's game and story through and through. Lightning was the teaser character because they were already placing ff13-2 and knew she would market over seas better. When lightning went viral for being "female cloud" they felt more comfortable marketing her as the "first female protag" out of fear that the game from Vanille's perspective wouldn't feel strong enough given her development speed in the story. I do think this makes sense, because we don't see the real Vanille until disc 3 ... but I do think they should've made the game 3 perspectives. 1. From Fang. 2. From Lightning. 3. From Vanille. With Vanille being the most consistently seen. I just feel that impact in the early story of knowing she has a secret (from us) would've made her reveal much better for 13 .. and then 13-2 being about Serah helping her missing sister (who was a supporting cast member) would've felt more personal. Because Serah would've been creating the end we all wanted for the cast. So lightning returns then with lightning in her full power and truth would've been a great send-off. Especially ending it with Serah and Snow happy, and Vanille feeling she atoned for ff13s initial plot.

[@delsingray5923]

She technically is the main character

[@One_of_Many750]

Vanille And Sazh Are My Favourite of FFXIII.

[@wanderingbardgaming]

They are the best-written characters (in game 1; Sazh falls off hard in the sequels sadly)

[@Gwen1661]

Vanille's journey is one that it took me plenty of revisiting of the og game to fully appreciate, but even back then (when I didn't know how to put into words how things made me feel) I knew she was something special. Every year that goes by, I appreciate her character just a little bit more.

[@chaolihai-innit]

8:40 Bro, that hits hard tbh. It's such a realistic response to everything that happens in the game, and it keeps piling up. Her character is so damn interesting! I just wish she and the others were just a bit less anime in the way they act or speak.

[@wanderingbardgaming]

It is realistic for sure. I'm not trying to say the writing is bad. But it's a terrible cycle Vanille gets herself into and it only makes things worse for her down the line. So recognizing and learning from her mistakes is valuable too

[@OooEeOooAhAh]

Every single soundtrack from this game touches my soul. especially Vanille's. TYSM for the content. FFXIII is probably my favourite close to IX

[@wanderingbardgaming]

Thanks for watching! And YES I want to play FFIX again I loved that one

[@PrizzyPat]

FF13 holds a special place for me not because its my favorite game but it’s also my first FF. I always thought that Vanille is the true protagonist of 13 but lightning was just cooler to put in the cover. So since then she’s been my favorite FF character. Your analysis is really spot on, I enjoyed binge watching all your FF13 character analysis - I’m really happy to see there’s a community that enjoyed 13 on in-depth level. Keep up with the amazing analysis!

[@wanderingbardgaming]

Ooh, I do see Vanille as a good protagonist for just FFXIII, but I think thematically Lightning is better for the trilogy as a whole. I'm really glad you like the analysis! And yeah I also love this FFXIII community we've got going on in the comments. XIII-2 character vids coming up; just trying to finish FFXVI first (and trying to beat XIII-2 deathless lol)

[@PrizzyPat]

⁠​⁠​⁠@@wanderingbardgaming Yes, I did understand Lighting had a better narrative throughout the whole series, I just how all ties up in Lightning Returns. Can’t wait for the XIII-2 vids and good luck with XVI and XIII-2 deathless run. Also will be doing any analysis on the villains I think Dysley is under appreciated 😁

[@wanderingbardgaming]

@@PrizzyPat I'm definitely planning to analyze Caius. Idk if I have enough material to make a video just analyzing Barthandelus, but there are some thematic ties between the villains of XIII and XIII-2 that I'd like to dive into at some point

[@adiksaff]

I am UPSET at KZbin not showing me this until I saw your Noel video come up. IMO Vanille is the deepest “genki girl” FF has ever produced. I NEED this video in my soul!

[@wanderingbardgaming]

Oooh. Well I’m glad you found it at least! It’s so interesting to me how polarized the response to Vanille was between “she’s such a deep character” and “she’s so annoying.” I think we definitely see a gentler side of her come out more and more as the series continues. It’s really sweet

[@salazar556]

I wish Vanille had been the main character, especially in the first game. The first game always felt like more of a Vanille and Fang story rather than a Lightning and Serah story, especially considering she was the narrator.

[@wanderingbardgaming]

I've gotten a few comments about Vanille as protagonist. I think it definitely could have made sense for the first game. As for the trilogy...I might make a video about that later, just because it'd be interesting to explore what that'd look like

[@nicoledin7091]

I adore vanille

[@wanderingbardgaming]

As you should! She’s awesome

[@sammariofan]

I grew up to be very much like vanille except still working on the atonement part

[@wanderingbardgaming]

Well, if it means anything from a stranger on the internet, I think the most important thing about atonement is that you do keep working toward it.

[@eldenlion5850]

This is why i don't get peoples hate for XIIIs story. All it takes is a little listening and it meshes together pretty well. I'll give you gameplay and level design those were lacking but the story and world building is pretty on point if you pay attention.

[@wanderingbardgaming]

Exactly my thoughts!

[@cameron6538]

When you stray from series norms, you're bound to have naysayers. I think a lot of that series baggage is why people whose first game was 13 love it, and sometimes consider it their favorite even when they play many others (personally my first was ff12, but 13 is my favorite). If you're not coming in expecting a certain type of FF experience, an immediate open world with side stories to get lost in, then you're more likely to take it at face value. And what's there is really compelling when you're taking it at face value like that. I think FF13's narrative is too married to the linear starting chapters for it to hit nearly as hard if it was removed from that linearity in the beginning. The story beats work well *because* the characters are just as trapped and fighting an inexorable fate as you are bound to the linear gameplay. It just wouldn't have the same message if, at any time, you can just put a pause on your supernatural curse to go mess around with chocobos, treasure hunts, and bounties. You would lose all sense of forward motion for the narrative. It's worth noting that cutscenes that play as you travel throughout pulse really compound the feeling of looking increasingly desperately for an alternative as the clock ticks down: something which works to maintain the narrative tension even as the gameplay has shifted to a more open world style. The world opens up as you get to pulse, and this mirrors the story, where your characters are now looking for an alternative, a way to defy fate. Not to mention how interesting it is for characterizing cocoon and pulse both, as lands of rigidity and endless possibility, respectively. Cocoon is an artifice under strict control, contrasting the sprawling natural world below where rules are made and bent by the life which thrives there as opposed to fal'ce whimsy. honestly, i can talk for ages about this stuff, love it

[@SemekiIzuio]

Tbf this is one of those games you need to play more then once to understand the lore amd story teling because many terms werent spelled out or explained. It was all in a Databook 2 menus in irrc. Like Lcie Pulse Eden Eidolens etc its all new and although it all makes sense once you understand what the story leads to as beginners tho it can be overwhelming especially for younger age players

[@IlMemetor72]

I've never loved Vanille, and I still don't, but I always think about her when I'm down - thanks for the video, it made me think of her in a different light

[@wanderingbardgaming]

You're quite welcome! Making this video helped me view her character differently too.

[@wikais]

loved it 🥰🥰🥰 keep up the good work

[@mokurai7327]

Yasss finally 🥳

[@kaderbueno6823]

Don't understand the hate about Vanille I she was so powerful I used her so much best saboteur great ravager great healer great commando and if i remember correctly she also learns haste as a synergist she's literally the best character, even if I prefer Sazh How can you prefer snow or hope and even lightning over her ?

[@wanderingbardgaming]

Most people's hatred of Vanille is very skin-deep from what I have seen (i.e. they don't like her voice or her personality, without diving into her arc or her usefulness in-game), which is sad. Plus, I'm pretty sure half the combat roles you mentioned only come up in postgame unless you do an excessive amount of grinding. I personally see aspects of myself in Hope, and I adore Lightning's arc across the entire trilogy (she's in my top 3 FF characters ever) so that's why I prefer those two. I've also assembled a rough Snow Villiers cosplay lol.

[@groudonvert7286]

Vanille is the only Synergist that doesn't learn Haste.

[@sleepiestboi4631]

@@groudonvert7286doesn’t this feel unbalanced? I’ve thought about this for 10 years. Vanille doesn’t learn Slow or Haste, but Fang gets to learn Deprotect and Deshell, AND Imperil. This could have been balanced with Vanille learning Debrave and Defaith. But those didn’t come around until XIII-2.

[@groudonvert7286]

@@sleepiestboi4631 Vanille learns Death and it's the strongest spammable ability in the game (you can do 999'999 per hit with the right setup).

[@commenter6763]

Vanille is great at having well-rounded abilities throughout the different paradigms. Vanille and Fang are a package deal, but I always preferred Fang's arc because she has to balance out her rage to keep from transforming into Ragnarok and taking down Cacoon singlehandedly. I can respect Vanille's arc as being one of avoidance of her focus, so she plays it off with child-like innocence to abate the burden, but I just prefer Fang's dilemma more as it's more realistic, especially at the end where the burden is mostly hers to make in deciding between two terrible choices.

[@usersomething836]

interesting

[@mree.9794]

great vid!

[@wanderingbardgaming]

Thank you!

[@alcidesfy]

One of the problems with FF13 is that Vanille and Fang are the true protagonists, and they're treated like a sideshow. Lighting has a lot of charisma, but she isn't a main character.

[@wanderingbardgaming]

I will push back and say that, from a standpoint of the entire trilogy, Lightning is absolutely the main character. From a standpoint of base game, I agree Vanille and Fang make more sense (esp. Vanille)

[@eldenlion5850]

​@@wanderingbardgamingIf anything what they needed was more time to flesh their individual stories out. Like how FF7 had a sequence that focused on each member of the party and who they are as individuals.

[@wanderingbardgaming]

@@eldenlion5850 I do remember FF7 doing that, yeah. FF6 had a thing like that too post-time-skip. For me FF13’s version of that was the individual arcs for Lightning/Hope and Sazh/Vanille, as wrll as the main quests in LRFF13

[@Endlessparadox-lh2rc]

@@eldenlion5850 We would needs some FFXIII 1-3 DLC’s… and I would absolutely love that ❤

[@SemekiIzuio]

I kind of wish it was marketed as FF13 Vanille FF13-2 Yuel FFLR Lightning Being all woman and not a single one being above the other to make a trilogy whole as that would feel more realistic because the actions of one person has consequences for others. And I know saying Yuel should have been a main character is a stretch but it could have been remedy by have some narration of her and how she never regretted dying each and everytime and see her lense in how she see Noel and Caius suffering but unable ti do anyting about it. It would roundabout all of the game imo with just some narration on her part like Vanille did in her game. Alas here we are.

[@gamer1X12]

13 has the exact same problem as 12. The main characters aren't the main characters. In 12 it's Balthier, Fran, and Basch, NOT Vaan and Penelo. This is something that is corrected in 13-2 and 13: Lightning's Return, but it's still interesting to wonder what could've been if the story had a different character focus.

[@wanderingbardgaming]

(I’d replace Fran with Ashe in your FF12 list myself). In fairness to FF13, all of the characters get a lot of attention. Lightning was the easiest character to kick off the action with. I do agree it would have been interesting to see what happens if Vanille was the trilogy protagonist

[@gamer1X12]

@@wanderingbardgaming i was considering saying Ashe instead but Fran revitalizes the plot in my opinion. She enhances the early and late chapters and injects some much needed mystique and flair to balance out the Star-Wars vibes. Balthier himself would also be a bit less interesting and would be less solidified as a charmer archetype, were it not for his sidekick being a member of an elusive, distrusting species. Fran, despite having virtually no dialogue, serves such an incredible narrative purpose. Her mere presence is the vector for so many impactful story events. Ashe is a great character in of herself, but I feel she lacks the character-narrative cohesion of Fran, Balthier, Basch, etc. Her archetype of warrior-princess feels unrefined... It's hard to put my finger on it but something about Ashe feels undercooked. I think Ashe set the stage for a female archetype that was later on perfected in the 13 games. I think Ashe walked so Lightning (and all the 13 girls really) could run. Or maybe the curtains are just blue. In any case, you deserve way more subs. Thanks for reading my dissertation thesis on some of the most obscure characters in modern fiction 😍

[@wanderingbardgaming]

@@gamer1X12 thanks so much! I might have to pay Fran more attention when I inevitably replay FF12 (which I fully intend to do, I’ve wanted to analyze its characters for a while now). I liked her as a person but didn’t really see her as impactful to the story (due to her limited dialogue). I’ll add to your thesis and say Balthier gets more depth than the “charmer” archetype because of his connection with Dr Cid; in my eyes he serves as mentor to both Vaan and Ashe by helping the former learn to fly/learn more about the Empire, and by encouraging the best side of Ashe and advising her not to let desire for power consume her the way it did Cid.

[@usersomething836]

interesting