Various 'Zonophone Coronation Record Puzzle Plate' 1911 Acoustic 78 rpm

[@tiga4180]

Recording date is 29/4/1911 in good time for the coronation on June 22nd. According to the catalogue soloist is Peter Dawson & music provided by The Black Diamonds Band, which I guess was part of the Zonophone studio orchestra. No other personnel are listed.

[@james-flynn1938]

This I absolutely captivating AI I'm amazed at the condition of this record a the recordings on it any idea on hide they made puzzle records I saw one but I had to make a pass on it because it had been cut up with mos likely a bad needle Cheers James

[@OldiesAl]

They are cut as any other record but the lathe is set with a wide groove pitching, the 2nd groove is then cut inside the first with the same pitch then the 3rd fits inside the 2nd and 1st groove. Once the original pitch is set correctly the other grooves just fit in.

[@james-flynn1938]

Thanks AI I always wonderd Cheers

[@tiga4180]

Interesting record to own. I wonder when the first 'puzzle platter' was produced. I'd imagine cutting the first groove would be no more difficult than a conventional record, the feed screw for the cutting head would simply have to be geared at 3 times the normal ratio. Setting the other two grooves to run parallel would be tricky, I can only think the start point for those would be set using a microscope. Thanks for sharing this gem.

[@OldiesAl]

I've seen a Berliner 'Puzzle Platter' on here recorded in 1901, I'm surprised at the clarity and condition of this especially at the starts where you would expect the soundbox to have been lowered numerous times trying to select particular songs. Do you agree that it sounds like Peter Dawson? As always it's a pleasure to receive your comments Paul.

[@tiga4180]

Wow, 1901! Whilst the sound part of the technology was new & fascinating, the actual record cutting technology was basically the lathe, so cutting spiral parallel grooves could be relatively easy, tho' as I said before, perhaps tricky to set up. Puzzle plates might have been great for marketing this new fangled wonder too. Agree sounds like Peter Dawson, he turns up everywhere & deservedly too. Did you know he also had a music hall career as a Scots comedian too? His stage name was 'Hector Grant' & at times can sound rather like Harry Lauder!

[@IVORIESMAN]

Amazing that this record is in such good condition Al considering it would have originally been played on a cumbersome gramophone with a heavy soundbox and needle. All those attempts to keep trying to find a different track would have taken their toll very quickly I reckon. Maybe the owner got fed up and relegated it to the back of the shelf in disgust...:-) I notice there's no run-in groove. Perhaps the makers could have had three - each starting at a different part of the record with an etching 1, 2 and 3. (Clearly I've missed my vocation..!).

[@OldiesAl]

Thanks Joe, a very special find this one, I was stunned by the reproduction, even wondered if it was a later issue but it is the Coronation label, it was released with a standard Zonophone label too, probably later issues. To think they could create recordings of this quality with acoustic equipment so early is amazing. Get in that time machine of yours and get that idea patented, I'll go halves with you ;-)

[@IVORIESMAN]

OldiesAl ...the mind boggles - you could mark a point on the label where you discover the groove for each song starts - sorted. Or just look after it and keep it in tip top condition for another century...

[@OldiesAl]

It's had it's last stylus dragged across it Joe, I'd love to think of someone playing such a great record in 2117

[@IVORIESMAN]

OldiesAl ...on a Garrard of course...

[@OldiesAl]

they'll be left together

[@robfriedrich2822]

I guess, they did the 3 recordings separately and united them on one record.

[@OldiesAl]

Yes they would record them separately, then the engineer would work out the groove spacing and cut the three grooves on each side

[@CamhiRichard]

@@OldiesAl But that would have involved dubbing, from one record onto another, via playback through a horn, which would have resulted in a huge loss of quality. No, I think they did all three recordings on the same wax master, one after the other, carefully positioning the cutting stylus a third of a rotation apart each time.

[@OldiesAl]

If they connected the pickup straight to the cutter they would do away with the horn. To do all three cut concentrically as this plays they would have to record all three again if a mistake was made.

[@CamhiRichard]

@@OldiesAl Mechanically almost impossible to connect pickup to cutter. Think about it, they're both moving. What kind of a rigid bar could transmit vibrations that delicate across one turntable to another? Remember, it's all acoustic, there's no possibility of electronic assistance. Occasionally in the electronic era, a recording was dubbed to another master cutter, but the sound was always inferior on the dubbed version. If you can even envisage a mechanical connection between the arms on two rotating turntables that could transmit vibrations well enough to rerecord at all, the sound would be unusable. Far simpler to record all three one after the other on the same master. Remember, even if a mistake is made, each selection only plays for a little over a minute, so redoing the whole thing wouldn't be that big a deal.

[@OldiesAl]

They used rubber hoses to connect the various cones to the cutter, so that would work

[@mrlopez-pz7pu]

March is by Meyerbeer, le prophete

[@carlospicchio]

12" ?

[@OldiesAl]

No it's a standard 10" record

[@carlospicchio]

@@OldiesAl THANKS !!!