"Failed" Characters - What Went Wrong? | Genshin Impact

Among Genshin's colorful cast of characters, a number of them have been discarded by the community for one reason or another. Today we'll be looking at some of these "failed" characters, and what went wrong with them.
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#GenshinImpact #Dehya #Genshin

[@serepraxis7182]

'sabotaged' is a more accurate term than "failed" in this case

[@purebeanilla]

gotta agree with this

[@AMACHiiBiong]

Yep 💯 And some bloke in Hoyo dropped the ball

[@n_gale1245]

"dehya'd"

[@DefinitelyNotAFerret]

Hoyo DEFINITELY made her skill activation that long just so she couldn't be used in burgeon either. They're definitely planning to release a burgeon character in Natlan and don't want competition for their release

[@jacktheripper7935]

@@DefinitelyNotAFerret Which is horribly stupid because Dehya was the perfect choice for a burgeon character as the only pyro in Sumeru. We got Cyno for hyperbloom and Nilou for bloom, burgeon had to be with Dehya, she was perfect for this.

[@Truck-kun11]

Freminet for me is not a flawed character, he just suffers from the problem that most 4-Star DPSs suffer from, which is the lack of numbers that prevent them from being on par with 5-Star DPSs.

[@kwayke9]

Gaming took the numbers for himself (why is his base atk similar to a top level fatui? Kinda hope he makes a video on 4* dps)

[@user-vt5qg7hj1m]

He's literally a physical/cryo non-plunge Gaming, but with worse mumbers... Poor boy...

[@ragno-monoover4710]

Or actually good physical supports

[@asterion3587]

@@ragno-monoover4710 Furina + Mika C6 is a great Phys core, only phys lacks is good electro slot

[@paulyvii]

Have you tried running Freminet with Furina. Furina makes anyone good

[@aestheticboba836]

I swear...dehya really dissapointed me. I love her personality and she's beautiful but her damage is abysmal, she takes way too much investment for little reward, isn't fun to play or very versitile. I swear hoyo loves trolling

[@vanitasastra]

I just wish they would have picked between being defensive or offensive instead of just doing both half way and terribly

[@TheEulaFan]

Same here, my friend. Imagin my twin dissapointment once he saw her leaked dmg, and, instead of buffing, hoyo just nerf her. 3 TIMES.

[@Fr00stee]

​@@TheEulaFanthey just gave up trying to fix her and dumped her into standard

[@darylewalker6862]

@@Fr00steeThen let the Fu Xuan team steal the bug reports (from the dumpster).

[@Ventis-dead-friend-]

​@@darylewalker6862 like.. Fu Xuan is basically what dehya should've been..

[@Chronoic]

The issue I see with Genshin characters are, they create them as a mechanic, and if it fails, they come around and create another character to try and fix the mechanic of the fail character. When they should be trying to make optimize teams. They are starting it little by little now, but they are also still sticking to their 1 new mechanic per-character that doesn't fit well with others. That why the elements are so un balance, example Fire DPS has almost 2x more units as main DPS than any other units, but most of those Main DPS units have been powercreep out or came into the game already powercreep.

[@colorlessguard]

literally all the devs needed to do to make hydro traveler half decent was to make their burst like Ayaka’s where it actually stops once it hits an enemy 😭

[@devilkazumi578]

They purposely make travelor bad :( the only reason dendro traveler is good is because dendro is broken

[@misery4388]

@@devilkazumi578 i mean geo and anemo traveler is good with their cons, increase crit rate and anemo shred

[@devilkazumi578]

@misery4388 yes some travelers are better than others but the issue is there's so many much better choices that ppl forget that traveler even exists

[@colorlessguard]

@@devilkazumi578 ehhh i can agree that dendro traveler is designed a bit better than the rest due to the limited dendro roster at the time - but i disagree with the idea that the devs purposely make the traveler “bad” - like obviously there are more optimal anemo/geo/electro options but just like Vars says at least the traveler’s kit for these elements still feels cohesive and has some limited use-cases… but the same can’t be said for hydro unfortunately…

[@FayinKay]

I really feel that they designed HMC purely for exploration puzzles that require Hydro 💀

[@zuzuthebunny8950]

Vars II: "Dehya is the first pyro unit released since Yoimiya" Thoma: Do I not exist?

[@yuki.35xxxv]

5 star unit.

[@DG_Toti]

I think he meant to say five-star but yeah

[@TsukatsukiRio]

Thoma is 4*

[@Force-Multiplier]

Whoma? never heard of her

[@Doralga]

No he's even worse than everybody on this list 😞 Thoma doesn't exist he can't hurt us 🤣🤣🤣

[@KalleDemos666]

This hits harder after what they did with Navia/Chiori, where Navia works DESPITE being Geo and Chiori is just Albedo 2.0 instead of being something that elevates Geo more than just "I can power through this"

[@Bronze_Age_Sea_Person]

They did the laziest way of "buffing" geo, forcing you to engage with Geo's mechanics to get a buff. Navia doesn't benefit from Crystallize, she NEEDS it, it's just a conditional that gives no benefit. Meanwhile Chiori doesn't benefit from Constructs, she NEEDS them, at C0 to get another Tamoto. There are all sorts of ideas on the internet to actually use crystallize for something better. I for example think they should have had a really strong elemental RES. For Navia's specific case, they could either make the use that the shields are quite weak and use that to empower her attacks, or actually make her passive buff Crystallize shields so much that she secretly would become a shielder, without actually being a shielder. So, by role compression, Navia would remove the need of a shielder in her teams and maybe even a healer. She could become therefore an alternative for Zhongli or Layla. Meanwhile Chiori, instead of being Albedo 2.0 or Geo Keqing without Aggravate/Spread to help her, why didn't they actually make her the supposed Geo Support for Navia that people thought she would be? We have a great support for mono-geo already(Gorou), the best shielder in the game(Zhongli) and Albedo whom gives off-field geo dmg. Geo doesn't need another Albedo, and only Navia and Ningguang have an open niche for their roles as quick-swap, ATK scaling Geo characters. They could made Tamoto stick to the active character, act as a mobile Geo construct, and have some passive that worked through constructs to give ATK buffs or something. This way, she could transform Geo Constructs as some "buff beacons" for her passive instead of just being requirements to get a second Tamoto so anyone with a Construct would actually make their constructs more useful for the team, and also help characters that have no construct like Navia, buff ATK, and make her Natlan-proof since I bet ATK will be the most important stat there.

[@Art_Of_Fischl]

Geo keqing

[@endieloe8972]

Freminet is very well-designed though. As much as we like to build our old DPS like Keqing on physical damage, it's almost always unoptimal or even unviable compared to elemental damage. Freminet, on the other hand, is literally built for that kind of build flexibility, making both elemental and physical builds viable, but he does suffer from 4* multipliers (which again plagues almost every 4* so I think that's a moot point). There is no way Freminet is on the same list as Dehya.

[@jo0ke4u61]

Freminet is one of the versatile unit in my opinion. You can play him on physical playstyle or spamming E in Freeze/Melt team. His best team composition was HyperShatter( hyperbloom+Shatter) which was unique dendro&cryo interaction

[@zeegony]

exactly, you can make him work just like every other 4* character, his dmg isn't even too bad like, pers dealing ~15k dmg without pale flame set and on c0 is really neat lol

[@mari_zz]

If Freminet is a failed character, then any 4* DPS is a failed character too. He has a clear playstyle, a kit that works well with itself and can combo with other units. He just doesn't have the numbers, which many units don't. It's not like Dehya and Hydro Traveler which look like they're missing a certain something in their kits that ties it all together, his kit is very well tied together.

[@starkittsy]

That’s exactly what I was thinking! Personally I think Vars doesn’t like him because he doesn’t like Eula, and by extension doesn’t like Freminet who is a mini version of her.

[@smittenmittens1364]

Signed, A Freminet main

[@mari_zz]

@@smittenmittens1364 I don't even have Freminet and I'd prefer Eula anyways

[@milantarika7219]

Agree! Also Physical characters do tend to be overshadowed by elemental based ones even if their kit is cohesive and have decent utility, I mean-- just look at Eula, Razor, and Mika

[@lucasayabe]

Agreed you can fix any character numbers with dendro or Xianyun + C6 Bennet now, so having a good kit design is enough to have someone to main a character and gain something from this, the character won't be meta, but you'll have a reason to use him.

[@Levyathyn]

Dehya didn't fail--she WAS failed. The game released her in her unfortunate state, and MiHoYo's dedication to never updating their characters means that's how she will be forever. Dataminers warned everyone, the feedback for her was horrible, she was considered one of the weakest and least useful five stars in the entire game... and that was BEFORE the devs saw all of the feedback, heartily ignored it, and nerfed her before release. And unlike Zhong Li, she has no chance of them caring enough about her to fix this. It's almost like the devs were fed up with leaks and datamining and wanted her to be a big 'fuck you' to the entire community, and to the character herself, and that bridge they burned was almost enough to push me out of the game forever. I've circled back, and with the release of Beacon on the weapon half of the new type of banner, I got her weapon... and I'm looking to add Cons to her whenever I'm able. But it's taken me a long time to pave over the betrayal of the devs, and to forgive this game for essentially punishing me for getting into the characters they put into it, the stories and designs they build to try and get you invested. And still, I refuse to give the game money ever again.

[@foxshoot3138]

You wanna know somethign funny, they nerf her

[@thatalbeeguy]

I don't understand how someone can feel betrayal from devs, only to come back and spend a ton wishes to essentially correct their mistake... Like, it's as if you were abused at work but instead of changing your workplace you try to take constant therapy to fix it. I know she is cool and all, but I'd never spend any jades on a "fuck you" type of character to get marginal upgrades for him/her...

[@wanderinggamer5079]

I feel you bro. I got her after losing a 5050. I wanted her for fan reasons but didn’t want to give up wishes for her. Built her slowly with Strong Boxed Emblem set and got some wild rolls. She hits pretty well now but man they did her dirty! I feel your pain.

[@jordanyzapata1878]

@@thatalbeeguywell the truth is for genshin specifically, aslong you dont drop a single dime on the game your winning. Whether the primos youve earned in game are spent on a character thats good or bad hoyo is not monetizing the person besides maybe using them as a marketing statistic. I personally love Eula and diluc, theyve been with me since i started playing at game launch. Yet i understand theyll never really have a spotlight, i just enjoy their design and personality. Hoyo releases underwhelming characters pretty consistently now. Every 4 star dps is undertuned every 4 star support is underwhelming or niche. Dont really know why they disregard the player base as hard as they do but no one is willing to put down their wallets🤦

[@GenshitInfantNo.69Glazer]

Easy cause shes tanned they hate tan characters😂

[@Hanayoru]

I really, really, really wanted to enjoy Kaveh so much. I saved for him, I pre-farmed, just to find out he's just a driver for Nilou, who I don't have nor do I want :(

[@usmanya5110]

i think driver for nilou is mostly at his c6 since i find his core explosion mechanic to be pretty slow when he's below maybe because i can't time his E well enough? and i kinda wish the core's damage is based on his EM instead of based on whoever triggered blooms. below that i think he's just a budget al.

[@moony488]

i dont think he a driver for nilou, HE IS a low budget nilou since his whole kit is just making blooms explode faster which nilou already does so she doesnt need him

[@AevyCh]

They wanted to make Dehya a Tank similar to Zhongli, but without the power budget given to Archons. Damage wise, it's pretty much 1:1 when compared to Zhongli. The main difference is their supportive capabilities: - Zhongli provides omni-shred. So even though Geo is not as good, he still provides some kind of value. - Dehya provides Pyro Aura. The only problem is that it's too slow to be useful (even the 3.5 Livestream failed to show a good example of it. You can see Ganyu failed to melt her Charged ATK if you watched the video carefully). There's also the issue of "good kit, but for a wrong game". Dehya's Elemental Skill is designed to absorb most of the damage taken by your party, but the game only allows for one character to be on the field, not to mention that you can dodge enemies' attacks in this game. In contrast to HSR, you cannot dodge enemies' attacks, so taking damage is imminent. An ability that can redirect most of the damage taken by the team will be very impactful for the team's survivability, which is why Fu Xuan is still considered one of the best sustain in Star Rail.

[@veeshadow]

Dehya's E skill is actually good but her burst is just might as well not existed like Aloy's constelation. I only use her for Burgeon and even that is just an extra if Lisa is not getting her burst ready to trigger Hyperbloom. Even if say, her fire interval is similar to Kuki Shinobu she can become Burgeon Queen like Kuki did for Hyperbloom.

[@nct121]

If u use burn team for Ganyu, maybe Dehya will be good She provive thing Ganyu want

[@DefinitelyNotAFerret]

All they had to do was make the interruption resistance last for her entire skill. Why did they need to specifically add in that it's only for part of the skill duration lol 😆Hoyo knows what it's doing

[@columbinadamselettefan]

dehya crawled and fell so fu xuan could fly😔🙏

[@wahyuwirawan727]

Dehya more like a meat shield literally and back healing when dying automatically. Use burn to bypass skill activation cd.

[@jonathan0225]

quick note on traveler, more and more it seems its kit is more of a story-telling/lore-related tool with some gameplay utility before the element's archon comes. ive seen lore enthusiasts saying that the traveler reflects what to expect from the archon in the first few years. but when hydro archon/dragon came, it seems the traveler is more in-tune with the draconic/primordial form of the element. traveler is more of a story/lore tool/vehicle than an actual playable character.

[@jimwar211]

I think the traveler is mostly made as a tool to help with new region gameplay mechanics. They gave us Lynette for one half of the pneuma/ousia, so they needed traveler to be the other half, and since Lynette is anemo they also needed to give us aimed hydro application, since Barbara can't really aim her attacks, hence the 'water gun'. It also explains why we got a useful dendro traveler, because Collei was the free exploration character since Sumeru needed aimed dendro application and the range of bows for many of the puzzles. Geo traveler needs constructs for puzzles, and the others just have basic element application since their regions don't really need anything more for their puzzles.

[@milantarika7219]

Ohh I agree with this

[@rebbudesu5088]

Genshin is allergic to criticism until it involves anything Liyue. What's the purpose of Beta Testing and Early Access when the audience and Content Creatoes dont even get a say on the direction of characters in the first place. The fact is they choose to ignore the outcry of their players rather than at least acknowledging it.

[@devilkazumi578]

Right! All of the content creators were saying that deyha was underwhelming but hoyo still nerfed her for some reason?

[@demonking-zm3rs]

Using Beta Data is never constructive and trying to criticize design choices in a place where everything is subject to change is not ignoring criticism. CC aren't game designer's nor do they have an internal map of what units Hoyo will release. There subjective takes and typically they end up being wrong or in conflict with future releases People can praise Zhongli buff and ignore the horrible things players did to get said buff. But fundamentally Zhongli didn't get better he became a bot Any semblance balance disappeared and he became a lesser character. Dehya is at the very least a unique design. She's not over inflated by big multipliers or an adjacent version of an already existing character This is a trend that will perpetuate forever. Cryo should work with Dendro. Kuk sucksi Kokomi sucks Xinyuan is going to be a niche support for Xiao To the devs 2 to 3 years for them is nothing for the player it feels like eternity. Dehya was designed with a purpose

[@mihacimpric745]

​@@demonking-zm3rsCool. So what exactly is that purpose? Because the entire community has still not figured it out after a whole year. So please, enlighted us.

[@demonking-zm3rs]

@@mihacimpric745 Okay so let's break it down. Enimeies are becoming progressively more aggressive. While having more options to shield and heal are great enemy variety like for example Consecrated Beast can potentially one shot Either through Overload or Burning while doing the Mario Maker event there's actually a lot of potential enemy combinations that can kill your characters quickly There's also characters who don't want healing or a lot of healing and using a defensive option reduces the overall damage out put. Deyha provide small increments of passive damage/reactions while taking a nice portion of damage and healing herself and offer some resistance interruption Remember Enimeies make the content Zhongli isn't infallible its just that Hoyo has been making the Abyss easier since 3.7 She's "bad" because content does not currently require to much defensive utility. But in a similar manner to Bennet where his self application can do more harm Dehya was constructed to be a defensive option that differs from healing and shielding. Her Burst is just a Oh shit button She's like Baizhu and to an extent Kahveh a Damage Mitigation unit. All it would take is enimeies who you can't out heal and who can crush shields

[@mihacimpric745]

@@demonking-zm3rs All of that just to say that literally any shielder would be superior to her. What use is a defensive character that dies off-field? Face it, she's nearly useless. You can like her character, hell, I do too, but her kit is dogshit. And you compare her to Baizhu and Kaveh like they aren't "bad" too.

[@danielferrieri7434]

Signora is Genshin's Most Failed Character.

[@Otherface]

After reading her lore, i can totally agree with this. I was never a simp for her, so i never felt anything towards her. And this is why i hate the way she died. I could write a whole essay in the comments explaining how her death was trash, but to put it shorr, Signora's terrible death can be described with the definition "show, don't tell"

[@leonardoalvarenga7572]

I don't think she necessarily needs to be ressurrected, but such a detailed and well made model should definitely be playable.

[@Ealdor-Bana]

SignoWHO

[@XieRH1988]

Yeah but at least you didnt waste primogems pulling her only to end up with a character that has a trash kit.

[@amandaslough125]

​@@XieRH1988Every character is useable. No one is trash.

[@anyways1715]

genshin releases so many underwhelming characters for literally no reason. meanwhile star rail is oversaturated with overpowered characters. it’s so strange

[@Fr00stee]

star rail has a more generic gacha model of "here's a new op character you totally must pull to beat content!" meanwhile genshin's strategy is "here's a new husbando/waifu for you to pull because you're a coomer" with 0 need to actually make them strong edit: for all the people saying "oh you don't actually need every new character to beat the content" I was being sarcastic, obviously you don't need the new characters hoyoverse just tries to convince you that you do.

[@NAZUNAME]

​@@Fr00stee this is simply not true, you can beat everything comfortably by knowing what to do. I've never felt i needed a character in order to beat anything.

[@ebanatnatria6409]

Because Star Rail puts incentive into elements much more than Genshin. Your go-to strategy should be inflicting a weakness break for that juicy +10% boost of damage. Meanwhile in Genshin you can just bruteforce most of the content given enough resources. On top of that, Star Rail has Yu Kong, who's usable with like 1 character

[@theinbunch1380]

I have heard some people say that powercreeping in HSR is a bad thing. But at least, if you want to pull for a character you like, you are GUARANTEED to have a strong character that way. I am not a ''meta slave'', but I don't want to pull for a character that performs worse than another that came out two years ago. Unless the character itself has some kind of unique mechanic (I love playing Wanderer), it feels kinda pointless.

[@Fr00stee]

@@NAZUNAME why do you think I wrote "totally must pull" sarcastically?

[@kyuven]

Y'know when people talk about characters getting changed or nerfed, I feel like everyone forgets that the last time they did so wasn't Zhongli...it was Yae Miko. They changed how the targeting logic of her summoned pillars worked, but it was SO unpopular they backtracked on it almost immediately. As for why these characters don't get altered after launch? Easy. If they put in the effort to rebalance a character, that time could've gone into developing a new unit with the fixed kit. Like, why give Qiqi energy regeneration when you can just slap it on every healer that comes after her and make money?

[@demonking-zm3rs]

People also forget imYaes change was suggested by the players

[@Blackoutdmc]

No one told Hoyoverse to change targeting based on proximity. There was a HOST of complaints about her on release. - the camera after using ult was bugged - took too long to deploy E - she was too vulnerable when deploying E. (Wanted I‐frames) - Turrets were attacking plants instead of mobs (😂) - turret shots would just... miss... - Em scaling on A4 was weird (this was pre-dendro) - normals felt clunky etc. Etc. To their credit, some of the major issues, such as the camera bug, and the enemy tracking bugs were fixed. They backpedled on the targeting change because people plinted out the range enhancment afforded from her C2 was wasted just hitting the closest thing to the character. Also Shield Hilichurls just ate ALL of the shots. Personally, I would have liked to see a change where the turrets hit whatever the on field character its, like Fischle and Furina, but it's whatever.

[@demonking-zm3rs]

@@Blackoutdmc Then you don't remember what happened a bunch of CN players complained about the turret priority. Maybe that wasn't your complaints but on her release that was the Loudest out cry about her Kit

[@thatalbeeguy]

if you change one character, all other character's fandoms will start rioting for them to adjust theirs. taking into consideration just how stupid and immature hoyo's games fandom is, this is a recipe for disaster.

[@VrtielA6300]

​@@thatalbeeguy You need to think about everyone demands to demoting characters because of their power level doesn't matched their rarities too

[@ashp4613]

for deyha, i feel like a very easy solution is to make her burst a burst of damage and then create a shield that would take up as much damage as deyha redirected to herself during her last e skill. this makes it so she is not a tank and a dps, and focuses her more on supporting

[@sarahboes6829]

That'd be great.... if her signature weapon didn't require being unshielded xD

[@qui7661]

They could always do what arknights did for their weaker units with the module system, it's basically a thing you still have to invest resources in that was introduced to buff certain outdated units by either buffing their numbers or giving them an entierly new passive that will help them once you apply the module on the character.

[@devilkazumi578]

Thing is in arknights some of the old characters are still good and have a high pick rate myrtle, hoshigumi, saria, ifrit, blaze, thorns, eyja, nightingale, bagpipe, abysmal hunters and many more

[@redlok3455]

That idea is basically applicable in Genshin. We did something similar with the Traveler in an AQ using knowledge capsules, which permanently buffed his/her ATK by 3 (?) points or so. Would be nice if we could do this to other chars as well.

[@Jardrin]

Except AKs version is... Questionable in use. Characters that need buffs might end up with terrible upgrades that barely help them while some other more powerful characters only get even better

[@alice0795]

Or they Could use the "Leap System" from PGR to revive some old characters and make them more relevant

[@shaderunner7.0]

HI3 (another HoYo game) had these kind of modules that basically overhauled how the battlesuit works, so there's that

[@noxalbus]

Hydro traveller just got themselves a weird niche: the ult ball would trigger whenever it touches a dendro core. Ayaka nuke turned hydro is the end result...

[@Chiski_Kanacheshka]

Wait really??

[@lafeechloe6998]

Really ?

[@MsDestroyer900]

Hydro travellers ult doesnt stop unlike ayakas

[@emmausgamer]

Yes. Though it hard to make use of it as it needs tons of setup and buffs, a good CC that can move bloom cores, and you building HMC in the first place. But when everything comes together, it becomes a nuke.

[@leegunring]

@@Chiski_Kanacheshka You can even clear the Spiral Abyss with a Hydro Traveler as a result kzbin.info/www/bejne/rmrbg5mijJZ3d8k

[@kerry7081]

kaveh is one of my favorite characters (and arguably one of the more popular with the fandom) and i've been desperate to make him work.. even worse is that he hasn't been put on banner for almost a year so most players are unable to get his c6. he's one of the most unfortunate characters in the game

[@shutup1037]

What the guy do?

[@kerry7081]

@@shutup1037 he's kind of a dollar store version of nilou - and plays way worse at his role until c6, i think the reason he hasn't been put on a banner for so long is cuz of the "deleting items" exploit/plugin ppl on cn servers were using him for last year. it's still annoying though

[@tidebringer4517]

Dehya just feels like a testing ground for the kind of characters Blade and Fu Xuan would be in Star Rail but the way she was released feels like she’s a rushed rough draft that the devs ran out of time on before deciding if she would be supportive like Fu Xuan or straight up a DPS like Blade.

[@simpayshenaides]

She is brown that is why

[@kichiroumitsurugi4363]

Or for that matter, any Fontaine character. And by extension, Dehya is almost exclusively used with Neuvillette + Furina

[@MN-xh7yu]

I've always advocated that I think Deyha should be more tanky rather than deal more dmg. I'd like to see her dmg absorption cap at 80% rather than 50%, buff her self healing. If you're saying every character needs their niche than make hers the non shielding shielder. It would only make her viable if Hoyo actually continued to punish Shields like they tried at one point

[@Phantom-YT19]

I remember when I was so hyped for dehya cuz she was hot af and thicc but then i got destroyed when it turned out she would be a standard banner character and has massive powercreep issues.

[@darylewalker6862]

That assumes she had power to be crept.

[@sheridanbruhnke9090]

I use her and she is great

[@JadeSimp22]

she was going to power creep diluc but got powercrept instead.

[@devilkazumi578]

​@@sheridanbruhnke9090fun to use but her kit is dogshit

[@ZanathKariashi]

@@JadeSimp22 By Xinyan.

[@nanoshere2834]

Something that i noticed before is that even though hoyo cant directly buff or nerf a character they have gotten around this by adding new artifacts. in example Husk with geo units, Vermilion for Xiao, and somewhat Nymphs for Tartaglia. they found adding personal artifact sets help buff character, but at the moment they take way to long to come out with any of these personal artifact sets that certain characters that need these artifacts are stuck waiting. One example would be Cyno he can produce a ton of damage and from what i found even surpassing Alhaitham but you will loose out in hyperbloom damage because you need more em, Alhaitham does not need to worry about hyperbloom because you can just get another character to do the hyperbloom for him. cyno has other issues but in terms of damage output he is at the moment stuck in a limbo situation.

[@sunnypa7101]

Nymph for Childe is a baseless statement. The dude has access to the best AoE team way before everyone started TCing and meta became a thing.

[@abdiabdi3225]

Cyno biggest issue is the length of burst it should be shorter to allow for more damage or higher scaling because nothing will last that long beside Nahida's E.

[@nanoshere2834]

@@sunnypa7101 I'm not saying we was not "meta" i was just saying that hoyo gave him a buff by giving him a better artifact set that's why i said "somewhat Nymphs for Tartaglia"

[@nanoshere2834]

@@abdiabdi3225 True, i remember talking so someone and they suggested that he could get an artifact set that reduced elemental burst cooldown while in the burst, or an artifact set that allows you to switch off without burst going away similar to Noelle

[@VrtielA6300]

No, but buffing characters is still impossible. And everyone always demands to demote characters because their power levels doesn't match with their rarities. Which is... I still want Keqing to be more powerful as everyone to atoning her own banner in 1.3

[@hultraspitfire2151]

I really enjoyed this discussion video but I don't understand the reason behind one of the characters being failed: Kaveh. It is quite litterally a 4* Nilou, as a 4* he has a less practical gameplay (needs his E to make the blooms go boom instead of modifying their properties) and a less generous scaling. By the diffenition given here of a failed character it would mean that: - either he doesn't aim for a viable win condition, which is not the case otherwise Nilou would be a failed character - or his kit is fundamentaly broken which is also false IMO as his kit is half of nilou and half of alhaitam: stay onfield doing autos to proc reaction and E to detonnate the bloom cores, his ult allows him to dendro infuse its claymore making him a viable onfielder for bloom spam as it does not matter how much dammage each character does. The only dammage that counts is the dammage of each bloom core. Is there something fundamentally broken about him that I missed?

[@carlosfernandez-ke8ju]

About his relationship with nilou i think it will be pretty similar to the hydro traveler and neuvillette have, kaveh gameplay main reason to be considered bad is that he dont have off field dendro application, and his scallings are so bad compared to nilou he hives 40 dmg bonus to bloom and nilou gives at least 300% . Additionally how many skills you haven per rotation whit him? 4-5 at most

[@pr0ntab]

They were way too conservative with his power budget and skill cooldown especially considering his burst cost. It makes Kaveh overly difficult to build over Nilou and you get a lot less for all the effort. Hilariously he is decent in Nilou bloom teams as a driver 😂

[@usmanya5110]

​i hardly get any skills at all. maybe it's skill issue but it almost felt like the cooldowns don't line up.

[@nonamepasserbya6658]

His cooldowns and role is broken. He is like XInyan where he is just a design fail. Nilou is in the same category if not for how absurd her numbers are. Bad kits can be salvaged by numbers but he doesn't even have numbers

[@marcusaurelius4777]

Kaveh gets like 60 percent bloom core damage with his skill taking forever on CD vs. Nilou that gets 30s of instant core explosions for FOUR HUNDRED PERCENT more damage for legit free. Just use E skill quick three times, nothing else needed. It's on her SKILL so it's free. No ER needed. Her burst doesn't even need to be used. It can be, but doesn't need to be. Kaveh needs to jump through so many hoops just to be a severely underpowered Nilou.

[@jajathenewking6131]

Hydro traveler could have had a niche if only his burst stayed like Ayaka's burst then they'd be half as good as Xingqiu.

[@kotarouinugami1745]

Hydro Traveler could have had a niche if we didn't need to run all over the battlefield to collect the balls. If they auto-collected when disappearing, they could be a half-decent healer.

[@heleno6917]

Honestly, i think that, even if Hydro Traveler is the worst, Electro Traveler is the least fun for me. His Elemental Skill never hits and his Burst, while decent, doesn't do anything unique enough to make him worthwhile. With Hydro Traveler, it's fairly neat to play a ranged-focus version of Traveler.

[@kotarouinugami1745]

In my experience, Electro Traveler works as a "battery" for energy-hungry characters. You hit enemies with your skill in the face, then quickly switch to somebody else who would take the magatamas and regain energy. If Hydro Traveler properly triggered all the things I need an archer for, like balloons in the daily commission, it would make sense. But the real range of his pew-pew-pew is much lower than it seems, and a lot of mechanics just refuse to interact with it.

[@kichiroumitsurugi4363]

@@kotarouinugami1745 Electro Traveler is plagued by the awful cooldowns

[@Yinlins_husband]

​@@kotarouinugami1745 bro my half built Bennett can do that

[@dragonwaz]

They should at bare minimum "buff" qiqi by increasing her basic attack range or shrinking her clipping box. I was actually fine with her as she was. She's a healer that lets your dps heal themselves while just wailing on the enemy without needing to wait for a cooldown, her basic attacks apply the healing mark. Her biggest problem was that her sword is so tiny and her clipping box is so big that on some large enemies she can't even hit them while rubbing her face against their clipping box. You get as close as possible, swing, hit them once and both clipping boxes clash and push you out of range for the second swing. So you end up missing at least half her basic attacks despite being as close as you possibly can be.

[@dustinabigan2776]

I feel like failed units are basically the units that tried to do something different but then it backfired. It's just that you get them...and then after that you have no idea what to do with them or how to make them work practicality-wise. Their more specialized/unique kits are never built on anymore, which is unfortunate considering the game has shown that it can make somewhat niche units workable to being really good such as with Nilou or Xianyun. Both have a specific playstyle but ultimately still work.

[@SHAdow98V]

s an Aloy main and triple crowner AND a Traveler all elements main and triple crowner i agree with this video. I main and play them cuz i love them but the term "failure" while harsh sounding is fair imo since let's face it you can't compare Neuvilette who in one single charge attack does significantly more dmg than Aloy's whole kit or Hydro Traveler's kit, hell any of the Traveler kits or most of there "failure" characters. I will keep using Aloy and Trav cuz i love them i also use many other characters but those who deny the term "failure" when the characters in question are unarguably complete failure are just high as hell on copium and don't live in reality.

[@Zigzorark]

Kaveh is incredibly good, and he’s probably my most valuable character. Why? He’s one of the best units to pair with Nilou, his upgrade. Kaveh can heal from exploding dendro cores, practically healing himself without the need for koko or Baizhu. And, because of how is kit works, I can hit over 1.4K Elemental Mastery with an old event weapon. Most characters have their place, it’s just in specific teams where they are able to shine.

[@by_artseni]

I use a translator. I love Kaveh very much, but he's not the best character for Nilou. Replace him with a healer and the team will benefit more. And I hate the fact that they broke his gameplay. He has an incredible design and history, but whoever made Kaveh's abilities is a complete asshole🥲🥲🥲

[@Zigzorark]

@@by_artseni I’m poor and don’t have Nahida, and I have Baizhu on the team anyway

[@usmanya5110]

​@@Zigzorark i reccomend dmc or Yaoyao if you don't have nahida or Baizhu.

[@usmanya5110]

​@@Zigzorark i reccomend dmc or Yaoyao if you don't have nahida or Baizhu.

[@by_artseni]

@@Zigzorark It sounds very good. The main thing is that I like to play like this))))

[@reece5634]

I feel like Hoyo could’ve made Hydro Aether to be one of the best healer, reflecting its supporting nature of the element. MC power is not lore accurate in game 😭

[@mbplaysgames]

13:22 “not over powered broken, broken broken.” Bouken da broken! 👍

[@redlok3455]

Fantastic blamage

[@VrtielA6300]

👎

[@Foxkey]

As someone who started to play Genshin in 4.0. I have to play with what I have. Failed or not.

[@NuclearGaming02]

Yae also got changed but they had no idea what they were doing so they reverted it xd

[@nickbopp4819]

the thing that flabbergasts me is there hasent been a catchup/augment mechanic introduced for older units yet most gachas add one at around 2 years in to indirectly buff up the old characters

[@Bronze_Age_Sea_Person]

And there's even a good excuse for that. Given characters have this awkward Lvl 90 Cap and the fact we can just upgrade talents up to lvl 13. So maybe, by introducing LvL 100 and Level 15 talents. Undertuned characters could be upgraded while overtuned ones could receive a smaller buff in comparison. So the jump betweem LvL 90 Diluc to Lvl 100 and Lvl 90 Neuvilette and Lvl 100 would be quite different.

[@Darkmec003]

​@@Bronze_Age_Sea_Person Very good Idea 🤝🏼

[@guyonyoutube501]

Dendro effectively did just that for characters like Keqing, while Furina is a decent buff for Jean.

[@soos.mpvier3187]

9:00 when were the times electro traveller was good? I remember the days were my friend said: "I tried electro traveller and he is fun except for his energy management." I tried it out and switched back to ameno immediately because he could better apply electro and had slight grooping capabilities. (And i had kazuha...) We didn't even have full constellation back then so he was even worse then nowadays.

[@ZanathKariashi]

Geo is also a comparable battery vs groups and has much better party support buffs. And the constructs and burst wall have situational value. (and hes the main other Geo besides Gorou that can stack EM and not really sacrifice anything for it to create decently strong crystal shields making him a pseudo-shielder on top of his other benefits (strong enough to stop 2-3 attacks (or double that vs specific elements) which is all you really need in most cases).

[@thenintegaguy7546]

I can argue that while Dehya has a kit that doesn’t entirely work with a lot of characters and Freminet is a Physical 4-star carry. Dehya got partially buffed from Fontaine like being useful for Neuvillette and can be used with Furina and Xianyun. Not enough to be meta, but still a better spot than where she originally was back in 3.5. Freminet on the other hand while physical, I’d say his problem isn’t that he’s a failed character, he’s just in a position similar to many other 4-star DPS characters in the game. Hydro Traveler though… we can all agree is just straight up "failed." Also, while you did point out that yes, Mihoyo will likely never directly buff a character again ever since Zhongli. They may "indirectly" buff them instead. For example, Yae Miko and Kuki Shinobu became a more powerful and stronger when Dendro was released. Healers like Jean and Baizhu became more powerful thanks to Furina’s release. I don’t know how they could possibly do that for a character like Dehya when Natlan characters releases, but so far it is shown that it’s possible for characters who have been "downgraded" in a sense or are not meta that Mihoyo enables new playstyles for them to be slotted into new teams. Which I really hope is the case for the Natlan characters.

[@lekoknightgaming8071]

Tbh if we could just trigger shatter against bosses (and we don’t need to freeze them like maybe applying cryo places blocks of ice in the target and then using claymore or electro triggers shatter), freminet would be op. I still do 69k damage with him so I’m satisfied

[@voshadxgathic]

Interestingly, I don't feel like Freminet was a failure. He was a more fun version of Eula for me.

[@matheusmikoaski5281]

This might be way too hot of a take, but from the gachas that I play Hoyoverse's gachas are the only one that makes me look at a character and think that they are not worth building, be it by virtue of powercreep or whatever else. This is not helped by Hoyo's refusal to balance older or underperforming characters by adding stats or extra functions and synergies to them, can even lock them behind Friendship levels like Blue Archive does with Bond Equipment, it rewards players for investing time and resources into older characters. Imagine how cool it would be if upon reaching Friendship lvl 10 with Qiqi you unlocked a passive that regenerated energy for the active character each time it proced her heal, or Amber's ultimate dropping a few Baron Bunnies alongside the arrows; While they probably wouldn't become the best units overnight, buffs like this would make sure some of these units remained relevant for a much longer period of time..

[@codegenesis34]

I tried a fun team with Fréminet, Barbruh, Furina and Fischl and honestly, it works surprisingly well, almost hit 55k on physical

[@cheesycheese8451]

If you have a well-built Charlotte I think she would be better on that team than Barbara, because of cryo resonance and no perpetual hydro aura on the character that enemies can do reactions on. Also a battery for Freminet

[@codegenesis34]

@@cheesycheese8451what i like about barbara is the hydro resonance but also the decreased stamina consumption haha but since i have nothing better to do i'll give charlotte a try, ty!

[@shinigamikiragami6886]

As a Dehya main, when she came out, it was hard to fit her in any team due to her skill and burst conflicting with her role in a team. However, furina made her burst viable in vape teams and synergizes with Dehya's built in hp regen for extra fanfare points, xianyun gives dehya's greatest scaling plunge usability more consistently, and bennet because of atk boost and pyro infusion. I came to this on my own due to testing and to my surprise many other dehya users also came to this build. That shows just how viable this build is for dehya. My point is, even though dehya ain't meta, she is 1000 times better than she was before. Just had to point it out man.

[@bmanske1]

Thanks I'll try this.

[@DehyaFlameMane824]

Ever since 4.0 she has seen more use especially with Furina I run both of them together and she allows Dehya to vape more consistently

[@Koscacio]

Only need 2 limited 5 star and 1 e6 4 star.

[@mikhailthegreatestdragon3627]

You do realize he pointed Furina amp out by now, right? It's redundant

[@Ganamabunta08]

Xianyun, Bennett (preferably c6) and Furina is one of the best team cores of the game. There is no veritable reasons to not use just ... Any other claymore characters aside from Dehya. The best variations I saw being Diluc and Navia. However, if you're having fun with Dehya plunge, all the more power to you

[@user-lk6wy8mz6w]

A good thing that Hoyo could do is offer the Genshin community a choice of one…ONE…of the failed characters and their they would like overhauled. Usually, I think they just prefer to make a new character, but I, personally, would really like Freminet overhauled. It’s such a cool kit, such a cool design, bit ot fails so hard.

[@Lolamy]

I really want a dehya overhaul that leans into the tanking and off-field pyro aspects of her kit.. but that's just a dream.. it'll never happen

[@agiant5715]

Reminds me of when they asked the chinese committee to vote on which 4 star is tobe given for free when you reach a certain floor of the abyss and we got the pyro archon himself gouba out of it. Too bad from my knowledge at least, hoyo never done anything similar since which sucks

[@Totigno]

As a Xinyan and Dehya main I totally agree with what you said in the video. I invested a lot of resources in these characters because I like them a lot, but it's obvious they have problems even with high and full constellations. Since Dehya's relase I've always been using her with Wanderer because, on my account, she's the best interruption resistance character to pair with him and she also helps him dealing more damage thanks to his passive. Sometimes I enjoy doing an Abyss run with a monopyro Dehya team and luckily I got her C1 R1 since day 1, which helped a lot because she actually did more damage than Xiangling (meanwhile I watched people complaining how their C0 R0 Dehya was a total disappointment as a DPS doing less damage than a sub-DPS Xiangling) and Furina turned her into a pure hypercarry with occasional vaporise reactions. At this point, I think that the only way to make her more viable is waiting for a new gameplay mechanic or a new character that buffs specific gimmicks that can help her, just like what happened with Keqing and Noelle respectively.

[@Lolamy]

it seems dehya might actually have some function with arlecchino, because arlecchino can't be healed by her team, Dehya could redirect the damage instead, giving arlecchino more survivability outside of just her burst heal

[@mkgaming5823]

See a big issue with Genshin is that a lot of people say " Just wait for a new character/artifact set" to make characters better While true that does not take away that Dehya is FUNDAMENTALLY flawed In the teams she fits in, there is a character that fits in better Heres the thing about Niche characters, they require a niche to fill in , and atm there is no Niche that suits Dehya perfectly So while she is 10000000% time better than she was in the past . she still needs help and even if a new character/set comes out that makes Dehya good, that same character/set is most likely gonna make other characters who are already better than Dehya , even better. I love her , I just wish Hoyo would just stop beating around the bush, and actually make changes to her baseline, up her damage numbers a tad , Make so jumping does not interrupt her and increase her pyro application , that last two cant be changed by sets/characters and those changes would help a lot because Dehyas biggest issue is that she is clunky.

[@amandaslough125]

​@@mkgaming5823the jumping isn't a Dehya thing. It's a system thing. Each ability has a hierarchy and gets canceled by the higher levels, with jump being at the top. It's the same reason we can even abuse so many carries doing jump cancels on HuTao charged attacks and such. Xiao mains figured this out way back when. It's just Dehya is the first character to actually put the system at the front with an extended burst state instead of a simple activation trigger. It's also an ability totally done for mobile players: press the awkward side button burst, and spam the comfortably located normal attack button while Dehya aims herself. And mobile players have a free button to break frozen instead of PC needing to jump. She's designed to be a defensive all rounder. She's just got undertuned numbers compared to most others in the cast.

[@GentleIceZ]

For someone like me who doesn't have her c1 or r1, Dehya has one decent team, at least. She's good with c0 Neuvillette and Nahida with an electro character. The reason being is her kit actually acts as a minature c1 for Neuvillette, since her E gives stagger resistances and Dehya+Nahida can trigger burning which can than trigger vape, which gives Neuvillette 2 of the 3 reactions he needs, the last one brought by the electro character It's still not as good as his c1 and you're not using Dehya as the main dps, but it's still nice she has at least one team she actually contributes to and really does make better

[@darkraven5626]

Hoyotrash described in a nutshell with how they handled these characters. I play almost all of them because I generally just play whoever the heck I want since the game is easy in a general sense only. I'm very surprised that you didn't mention Dori in this video with how underwhelming she is with her crappy slow threw hit combo and weak elemental skill.

[@ljunljun6354]

80 fully playable characters in 3 years is nuts though, I mean there is Dynasty warrior that got like 100 characters and the game is first made on 1997 (Dynasty Warrior 2) btw Im a new player, but I assume that the Water MC elemental skill maybe designed for the overworld Fountaine puzzle ? like MC Geo Elemental Skill for finishing Liyue's puzzle

[@docedeleite16]

freminet is probably my favorite fontaine character, its a shame that he was done so dirty

[@sandz000]

​@@ascreamingarcticfox5395 im new player and freminet is my earliest dps char. but it just sad after 2 months i realize cryo is kinda flawed because it contradicts melt. why cryo reso and blizzard strayer has to be like that just baffles me. even if i choose melt over cryo, the icd makes it very clunky. you have to be very precise to melt on the lvl 0 shattering pressure instead of the 1st cryo hit.

[@sandz000]

@@ascreamingarcticfox5395 his burst is 10 sec. i know a complicated way to make shattering lvl 0 to proc but in general if want it youll sacrifice 4 non melt skill hits to 3 melt skill hits. and isnt it just unfair that hydro and pyro does not contradict their resonance with vape but cryo does? i really want to make cryo freminet to work but i gave up.

[@sandz000]

@@ascreamingarcticfox5395 and your point about ayaka is another "minor" specific flaw in for freminet if he resort to freeze comps because claymore. its just sad

[@DiabloDBS]

Idk i got a "dmg" build for Dehya but she is mostly on my tank build with 70k HP since I end up using her for exploration especially in underwater areas... she just can't die anymore :-X

[@wiktorjoestar4457]

As a Dehya Main Myself I think at least now she is in a way better State than some people give her Credit for. I myself use her as a DPS but I also have her at C1 and I have Beacon but still espacially after Furinas and Chevreuses Release she can function as an Competent DPS even without Beacon or Cons. Even her Support capabilities are Imo good enough especially for Lyney and Neuvillette Teams where I think she is the straight Up best Defensive Option to have for both of them. I dont wanna say she is like super good or Anything but she is like I said way better now than on her Release. She is better than some other Units like Qiqi , Aloy or Mona.

[@mkgaming5823]

Mona is better ,she just fits into more comps , her support capabilities are just more universal

[@sarahboes6829]

Fellow Beacon and c2 Dehya haver here. It's pretty depressing that with this level of investment, my Dehya still clears slower than any other carry on my account, no matter the build (I have both burst damage and EM builds for different teams) I don't really like Lyney or Neuv play patterns so I never got them, but I'm glad that, a year later, Dehya at least has a couple viable teams as a support. I still use her in Ganyu teams and I imagine it's a similar thing, where the interruption resistance + standing in Bennett burst makes you pretty tanky even while sitting there charging a shot. My biggest complaint about her as a support is that the IR doesn't last very long, to the point that you have to use it right before your carry, and you lose uptime on other buffs / can't use things like Thrilling Tales. I end up losing a lot of Bennett uptime just because I have to use him *before* Dehya skill.

[@user-eo4it2rn1f]

for me this is how i would like those units to be: qiqi: energy regen duh, her burst mark last longer, make it so that it switches to a new target when the old one dies and the take on the remaining duration plus 2 second. off field attacks also can get heal from the talisman and additional healing to make a specialize healer for off fielder. the more healing u get from attacking an enemy, the more dmg they take from u. and when the mark expire, it will deal dmg based on the amount healed. dehya: make all her scalling def just to be different. keep her dmg absorb niche but add something like if the dmg exceeds a certain % of dehya def, the dmg will get reduce like 80%. the more dmg she stores, the more her burst dmg deals and the longer the duration but if she leaves early during her burst, 80% of the remainer dmg will be dealt in an aoe around her and make her burst punches normal attack dmg and it heals dehya per dmg it deals so she can self regen. first passive: make it like the echoes offering artifact set: the interruption will be level 1 like her normal skill which will have the extra skill tap for level 2 res interruption remove and the 3 sec down time, each time u get hit by an attack higher than a level 1, u have a % to not get knockback and if u did, the chance of next time not get knockback is increase, the chance will reset to the base amount when u didnt get knockback. the first passive also allows u to not get knockback when dehya absorb an x amount of dmg. make the dmg less overtime and more concentrated. increase her skill range and make the scalling increase and reduce the interval timer to 1.5 to 2 seconds. dehya burst grants her level 1 interuption res and has the same effect as her first passive. when she uses her burst when her skill is up, she will remove it, reset the skill cooldown and gain max level interruption res. her second passive: when dehya is on field and takes dmg, it heals her ally and if she is max hp but her burst is healing her, the extra healing will go to her allies.

[@shaderunner7.0]

About Qiqi: Clam exists, yea? That's free 26k physical damage per 3.5s

[@user-eo4it2rn1f]

@@shaderunner7.0 i mean it helps but not much imo. she does nothing but healing, artifact set should not count. while kokomi on feild does respectable amount of dmg. that artifact does help qiqi a lot though

[@shaderunner7.0]

@@user-eo4it2rn1f Might be just me, but I kinda prefer to clear Abyss with 36 stars, not 36 seconds, so what my healer deals isn't really my problem anyway. I have Qiqi on my co-op healer list with Clam for now since it's the best set for that kind of use along with Dori and Barbara. In single player Song would prob be better overall damage considering the damage multipliers involved, but it is what it is

[@user-eo4it2rn1f]

@@shaderunner7.0 i mean its just suggestion. in the meta perspective which isnt everything or in the optimization perspective. a healer needs to do more than healing to stand out, u know. kokomi is getting more popular since she has very consistent hydro app off field in a huge aoe, charlotte is very good for a 4 star, her insta heal is amazing and decent cryo app. qiqi has cryo app off field but u have to hug the enemy and it has a 15 sec down time and u need to go on field to her to heal the whole team or go to the character that u need heal which expose them in more danger, her heal potential is the highest in the whole game though

[@naeonixion]

Still unhappy about Yae Miko. Beautiful animations, lovely idea. Long skill cast time, low HP. No invincibility, outscaled by a day 1 4* (Fischl, presumably C6) That killed the game for me, frankly.

[@youjustgotmogged]

yae miko outdamages fischl but fischl is a better sub dps overall. its the same thing with yelan and xinqiu and we both know both are regarded as ss tier sub dpses

[@ironman1458]

People actually play genshin for the gameplay? Thats.... kinda sad

[@yoannklieber6943]

You managed to show how hydro mc is a fraud WITHOUT mentioning the burst, which just.... passes through enemies and goes away... just like that.

[@HauntedMushroom96]

Hey Vars do you think you should do a video for Mika. Not only is the spear from the potions event likely his signature weapon but he had a weird history of appearing to be the dedicated phys damage support but ended up being mostly a healer with a unique atk speed buff

[@DriftMaster.]

I agree with many points here, especially the one of every character should be able to work logically, Dehya is an example of un-synchronized design, neither of the abilities work together, and with a character like amber whole yes is day one, but is so hard to use, you will see players who main amber go to the extreme to make amber even slightly work, and hydro traveler has no reason to exist, the skill is useless holding, just press and go, the burst is so confusing that is doesn’t even make sense of where they were trying to go with it

[@Msaber2012]

I can tell you with 100% certainty that no one will quit if they change or buff a character's kit and if any do, they're so minimal it wouldn't make a dent on their numbers. Although I don't know how anyone would take a buff or refine a character kit negatively.

[@rushalias8511]

For the individual character...no one would have an issue. But if you start buffing weaker characters and they become stronger than already existing characters then the people who loved those characters might find issue if you indirectly power creep there mains

[@demonking-zm3rs]

I would argue it would like if you messed with Amber's kit you would have to be very careful with how you alter her existing mechanics Buffing numbers to me is just lazy and in a game with Synergy the big PP numbers should come from how characters interact If they made Dehyas burst count as normal it would be lazy we don't need another unit tethered to Yelan or XQ it's cool that Mona is just a better option

[@GoddessLunaMoon]

@@demonking-zm3rs There's so many ways to make dehya better tho. Lower her internal cooldown so she can vape/burgeon. Make her skill faster so she can vape/burgeon. Make her redirecting damage actually do something so that you're not on a short timer in battles compared to proper healers/shielders. Make her ult a basic attack so candace could buff it for example. Make her ult a stance change so that you can control when to punch and where compared to spam left click cutscene simulator. There are so many things that could make dehya, and also other units, better and/or more fun while keeping them interesting and different.

[@Msaber2012]

@rushalias8511 I guess my main point is even if people get mad they're not going to stop playing. It would he a better game if I could use different characters than just Bennett for every team that scales off atk or nahida for every dentro team

[@Msaber2012]

@demonking-zm3rs I'm using buff as a nuance rather than a literal increase on their damage numbers. But I agree only increasing numbers would be boring and lazy. I also agree with your dehya scenario. I, too, am bored with using Bennet and XQ. Actually taking the time and adjust the characters to fit their place in the story would be a better way to approach it

[@MuhaamadAreeb]

The two thumbnail ones ironically just don't have the numbers. Not that their design is bad. Just that no matter how much you invest in their own playstyle, they don't have the ability to scale at all

[@Mctaonald02]

the moment i heard Dehya is going to be in standard banner i knew something ain't right, they really did her dirty by just throwing her into the gutter like that

[@youjustgotmogged]

same bruh

[@zillo1600]

I hope some characters will get their second chance as time went on. I still remember the bad reception Kuki recieved on release and now she is a very strong and popluar unit. I don't know what will have to happen to these characters to have some kind of use but i don't think it is impossible. Will they ever get meta? No but at least i can see them to find some sort of niche. what annoys me more in Genshin is that "hey lets build a problem in their kit and sell it the solution with constellations." I get they want to make money with the characters but that is just evil.

[@ZanathKariashi]

only because of a whole new element coming out. Unless Light and Darkness are coming (which BETTER have some amplified reactions with Geo and Physical), I doubt we'll see anything on the scope of Dendro's release that isn't tied to 1 specific character carrying everyone (I.e. Cloud Retainer and Furina).

[@princehaxar4814]

"Failed Characters" intently stares at a casket

[@VrtielA6300]

👎

[@Jolfgard]

We couldn't identify what went wrong back when Dehya released and we can't identify it now MiHoyo, as far as we know, just did that, despite it being illogical. Maybe it has something to do with Chinese culture, idk.

[@markvicferrer]

My best Dehya setup is Charlotte skill, Dehya skill then Neuvilette skill & charge attack, Dehya skill. The flex slot could be Raiden Shogun or Yae Miko. But her burst not having invincibility is what really hurts her kit. Freminet really does play like a lesser Eula, which could work considering how long it was between her reruns, but if you got her, there's no reason to use him.

[@lynsmanz384]

If Dehya dealt bonus damage based on how much damage she absorbed her kit would actually make sense

[@jevs1555]

this is the EXACT same thing i thought of when i initially tried her out first

[@GentleIceZ]

I disagree with Freminet being a failure of his kit, he's more a failure because of the player base. Aside from most players not giving 4 star characters the time of day, I also tried using him as a physical DPS and was like "wow, this sucks." But then I used him as a cryo-shatter DPS and was like "oh, hey! This is actually really fun!" He was my go-to pick for fighting the new cat boss because he just excels in a team that wants to do shatter. Obviously niche, but not a failure by any means imho

[@KudaGeatsune3821]

Same he's not very good outside of cryo teams But in his niche he's great!

[@F1ll1nTh3Blanks]

The playerbase hasn't failed at all. He's just mediocre, if that's fine with you that's cool but not everyone vibes with that.

[@GentleIceZ]

​@@F1ll1nTh3Blanks Hard disagree. Is Freminet mediocre? Sure. The problem is "mediocre" isn't the same as "fundamentally flawed," which is what the video was about. And that does nothing to address my point that everyone who thinks he's solely a physical DPS does not understand the character Yeah, so, I see no reason to change my opinion: the playerbase has failed here

[@cornmixmell5287]

I think that's exactly why he's a flawed character. It's cuz he could have been given numbers similar to, if not higher, like Gaming but they didn't. Being a physical dps already gimps his power by a significant amount solely by the nature of his damage type, on top of being a claymore character who are known to have slower attacks and an equally flawed premium support like Mika is just setting him up to fail. It's true that he's decent when fully invested into but so are other characters with arguably lower investment floors. Characters don't need to be overturned or overpowered but why do "failed" characters require you to cross hurdles larger than their competitors only to land on barely equal footing when everyone else has a good headstart is the main issue here.

[@GentleIceZ]

@@cornmixmell5287 This is what I mean, tho. I'm not arguing physical sucks. I'm saying he can be played as a cryo character, and that's elevates him by the sheer fact he's cryo. Is Mika a mostly flawed character to? Sure. But if you play Freminet as cryo, you immediately have access to a team like Furina/Jean/Shenhe. Heck, you can still do a reasonably good 4 star team with Layla/Sucrose/Xingqiu You don't want to invest in him? Fine. Your account, you do you. But as someone who tried and failed to make Xinyan work in several different builds, I cannot say Freminet is even *close* to being a failure. And when you have supports like that and are still failing to clear content? I'm sorry, but skill issue

[@Darkkefka]

Dehya was designed to be a cash cow since she was so popular. She only gets good at constellation six. But they realized that nobody in their right mind would ever pull for her again, which is why they slapped her on the standard banner.

[@hqhuy931]

Dehya honestly had as much place in Sumeru arc as literally Nahida the Archon herself - and their gameplay are worlds apart. Honestly, even comparing her to Diluc would be unfair because even Diluc as decent dps and feels good and straightforward to play.

[@hellohooman8962]

I remember when I got C1 Dehya I tried my hardest to make her work. I loved her play style but my Yanfei deals even more damage despite being a 4-star and I put more effort into making Dehya's damage increase.. It was such a disappointment.

[@tsunderemerc2963]

I always thought of it as some kind of crooked marketing strategy. Gacha isn't as exciting if everyone is good compared to throwing a few stinkers in there as well. I feel like Dehya was made intentionally bad when they knew they wanted to add her to standard, so now her AND Qiqi become boogeywomen for you to lose a 50/50 to

[@krumi_hazuki1440]

Dehya constellation is solid tho😊

[@VrtielA6300]

Nothings more than everyone still hates Keqing

[@rew.6z465]

i LOVE YOUR CONTENT SO MUCH

[@haydenthompson2097]

Thoma was realised after yomiya, but yeah, it's still a long time since a pyro character

[@thesleepyreader]

7:23 Idk I really like playing Fremi, he's fun and does a lot of damage

[@sanjeethmahendrakar]

Dehya isn't exactly bad in her kit design but she just doesn't have a place in genshin and i dont think ever will. For example, look at Fu Xuan in HSR. They have the exact same kit. Redirecting DMG, a self heal passive, and a burst that deals negligible DMG. The only way i can think of increasing dehya stonks is to double down on khaenriah enemies that punish you for having a shield.

[@mptyalln]

healers tho

[@Lolamy]

i feel like if they just upped the damage that dehya could redirect, reduce the interval for her skill's pyro attack and make redmane's blood ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING, she can have a place in genshin, this type of kit can have a place in genshin, but hoyo basically set her up to fail.

[@mkgaming5823]

@@Lolamy Maybe they should make Dehya gain a damage buff for how much damage she has absorbed.

[@darylewalker6862]

But Fu Xuan’s Ultimate also heals allies. If the Genshin team added healing to Dehya’s Burst, like per punch and partially scales off her Redmane level (which then resets), then Dehya can see more use. Without something like that, Dehya less helps you survive and more slows down the rate you un-survive.

[@amandaslough125]

​@@darylewalker6862But that doesn't matter if you have HP manipulation gimmicks.

[@kardelenkoc9746]

guys guys guys what if dehya was meant to be played with arlecchino? she cant get heal but shared damage would give her more survivability. and theyd be 2 pyros for atk buff. then again dehya's burst doesnt really do much

[@imo098765]

Dehya has been good since 4.0, she is a defensive character that can deal some damage. Remember her set is voruksha not emblem. Then if you had her constellations she is NUTS, 60K+ punches no vapes this all while still providing super armour to your team and tanking damage. If they made her vape normally she would be the best overall pyro character c6 vs c6

[@Fr00stee]

​​​​​​@@imo098765just make sure you don't jump LMAO. Also 60k vapes is not that great for a dps that needs c1, and vorukasha is only marginally better than emblem and then you have to deal with dehya's energy problems. Lastly there is one major problem with dehya: there is no reason to even have dmg mitigation in the first place when there are tons of shielders that exist and you don't lose health at all with them, while with dehya only she will heal not your team mates which will lose health.

[@blazikenfury8852]

@@imo098765 Those 60k punches are from a c2+ Dehya usually with Bennett, Kazuha, Mona where the team does very low damage, she does 10 punches so around 700-900k dmg total maybe.. my c0 Neuvilette only with his signature does around 500k with one charge attack and he can do 4 in the same time, so close to 2million in the time Dehya does 900k(I am not even counting my Furina's damage). So no, she is very mediocre.

[@blazikenfury8852]

@@imo098765 Also at C0 Vorukasha is 2% better than Emblem, 6% at C1 and actually better only from c4 onwards. So on avg more 99% people as they will probably farm emblem more, they'll have better emblem pieces, therefore emblem will be better than Vorukasha. Ypu're huffing too much copium bro. I love Dehya too, but trying to make her do dmg is not the play. Playing around her skill's off field power is her real strength.

[@symartin45]

​@@imo098765 Dehya is a protective character in the story quest. Willing to make a martyr. So it make sense.

[@bjornnilsson2941]

I built my Dehya when I got her to c1 and haven't regretted it. She's certainly not among my stronger units but she is fun to play in my opinion. I have made it a tradition to solo floor 9 first half with her, and solo with Yelan on the second half. It's something to make the lower part of abyss a bit more engaging. I then do 2 units per team on 10, 3 on 11 and full teams on 12. It's still a bit too easy but at least it gives her *some* kind of role on my account. Freminet on the other hand? No way he's getting built. 😂

[@user-wu6ii5tj2u]

Dehya's elemental skill snapshots too which means her BiS weapon passive doesn't do that much for her as well...

[@darylewalker6862]

@Vars maybe you could discuss all the 1.0 healers in a video. Qiqi having Energy issues isn’t her problem. EVERY starter healer has horrific Energy and/or duty cycle issues! Bennett isn’t actually an exception because it was “compensated” by a 70% cap. Jean is the only exception. HYV really thought ass-kicking healers would be broken. This was a “Diluc rules, Bennett drools” 1.0 policy that was rescinded. Note that the next 3 healers dropped this concept, with trade-offs. Diona is mid, Zhongli is severely constellation gated, and Kokomi can’t CRIT.

[@geebeepman]

Im actually using dehya on my 1st account.. although the only reason why that is only bc that acc doesnt have a c6 thoma for burgeon like my 2nd account. 😅

[@usmanya5110]

i think C4 Thoma is the minimum for burgeon to work.

[@geebeepman]

@@usmanya5110 well my thoma on that acc is level 1 c0. 😆

[@usmanya5110]

@@geebeepman oof ouch i wish you luck on thoma cons.

[@geebeepman]

@@usmanya5110 its okay. dehya works okay-ish for burgeon too. at least, I won't be looking for an upgrade as long as I can still 36 star abyss with her.

[@TalkingSoup]

i understand hoyo's decision to never buff or debuff characters, but what i'll never understand is that they never bother to fix broken characters. like what do they plan to do when they someday inevitably release a character that's so buggy they're unplayable?

[@jimwar211]

I think the traveler is mostly made as a tool to help with new region gameplay mechanics. They gave us Lynette for one half of the pneuma/ousia, so they needed traveler to be the other half, and since Lynette is anemo they also needed to give us aimed hydro application, since Barbara can't really aim her attacks, hence the 'water gun'. It also explains why we got a useful dendro traveler, because Collei was the free exploration character since Sumeru needed aimed dendro application and the range of bows for many of the puzzles. Geo traveler needs constructs for puzzles, and the others just have basic element application since their regions don't really need anything more for their puzzles.

[@justinang5231]

Love this analysis, hope you will do a Failed characters version for the Star Rail units.

[@D4RTHR04CH]

the way honkai star rail "buffs" their characters is to just add supports for those type of characters so for example there isnt a DEDICATED physical support or someone who makes dehya be usable or characters that work like dehya and artifact sets include

[@misery4388]

isn't mika a physical support based on his skill, the downside he needs to hit 4 enemies for full buff

[@D4RTHR04CH]

@@misery4388 only if he is c6 and hes not a dedicated phys support more of a healer

[@belphy205]

I have used Deyha for one reason. Exploring Dragonspine. Her talent beats out the sheercold

[@tonkababic9826]

I am Dehya main and I do like to use her with Wanderer and I did build her to have lovely damage and I also use her with Wriothesley.I still think she deserves buff but there is ways to play her .

[@dennisorozco1958]

Okay Listen Crazy idea for Dehya and Xinyan A new set that raises a single hit of the elemental skill based on how many times the Burst hit I have no idea if it could work but I just thought about it

[@hedgehugs]

why would you want to buff xinyan's elemental skill damage though? that's like the weakest part of her kit lol decent for dehya tho

[@jacktheripper7935]

A rework is what Dehya need. A new artifact set is just putting some bandage on a corpse...

[@kichiroumitsurugi4363]

@@jacktheripper7935 A rework wouldn't really do much. Her one (and honestly only) issue is the ill-fitted burst

[@jacktheripper7935]

@@kichiroumitsurugi4363 she has many more issues than that.

[@kichiroumitsurugi4363]

@@jacktheripper7935 Those issues people speak of are always in the context of her as a DPS (which she should not be used as btw, stop trying to make her the next Diluc)

[@yourlocalyanfei]

I think you mentioned this, but It’s a shame that these characters kits ended up like this when literally everything else about them is pretty good. The writing team seems to really love Dehya, but it feels like the game-development team couldn’t choose to make her berserker or tank support. Leaving Dehya with what feels like two different roles forced into one kit. I still love to use her though and hope that I can get Furina for her

[@L4in1998]

I'm playing with Dehya in an overload team and I'm satisfied. She even has better teams. On the other hand, considering I really like her, I pulled for her weapon recently.

[@luckysgi-5karrow378]

10:28 No. If everyone one was meta, then that means everyone is balanced with decent uniqueness to bring to the table. That in itself is not a bad thing especially if power progression is based on knowing the game and playing well which people already do here. Maybe just f2p smoothbrains simply scared of the word "meta" in this game's community. This is a problem by the devs, not us players. Powercreep has nothing to do with it except gacha game devs cranking the revenue spigot. The problem, as mentioned later in the vid, is just they will not rebalance characters, enemies, and mechanics while introducing objectively new playstyles. The most fun characters don't follow Genshin's formula of "1/2 button buff x3 --> spam attack for 10-20 seconds". We all know they have the money to do it compared to other games that actually try this like Street Fighter V back in the day with its V-Skill + V-Trigger system, or even Helldivers 2 right now with the community junking the game due to terrible balance changes. Instead we get absolutely basic implementations from games made 2 decades prior (Xianyun multi-air jumps, Chiori's character switch), or rehashed attack styles (Neuvilette + Navia + Sigewinne "firin' mah lazer").

[@simonditomasso9868]

The fix for Dehya is constellations, like at c2 she feels like a c6 4 star dps with extra comfiness

[@shutup1037]

C6 4* DPS 😂 for 5* C2

[@simonditomasso9868]

@@shutup1037 sounds about right 😭 at least she has a fix compared to, you know, candace or dori for example

[@ozzcoremidmx8287]

What HoyoVerse did to Dehya was totally dirty, Dehya was supposed to be an amazing unit but they changed the values so much that it feels so... frustrating

[@----x-----]

dehya is a special case because they made sure every part of her kit was dysfunctional RUNDOWN TIME: -skill procs too slowly to be good as burgeon trigger -skill deals too little pyro application to be a good enabler -skill deals too little damage to be a good vape/melt trigger -skill cd/duration don't match so it can't have permanent uptime -damage redirection/mitigation aren't enough to keep a party safe, as a defensive option she still needs a healer -burst damage too low -burst does not trigger XQ/Yelan -can't dodge or dash during her burst -burst pauses her skill and as an added bonus they removed all shading and detail from her shorts before she went live, she did have normal shading before you cannot convince me someone at Mihoyo didn't have huge hate for that character

[@usmanya5110]

don't forget her burst makes no sense if she's a defensive unit.

[@kichiroumitsurugi4363]

- The slow proc is invalidated by Neuvillette's existence - Stop using her in Vape/Melt - Again, stop using her in Vape/Melt, she is not Diluc - Not notable enough most of the time - Furina called - Burst is for triggering Burgeon, not anything else - STOP USING HER IN VAPE/MELT - Skill issue - Skill issue

[@kichiroumitsurugi4363]

@@usmanya5110 It's a Burgeon trigger, since it always can hit cores. And you should absolutely use her for Burgeon

[@usmanya5110]

@@kichiroumitsurugi4363 i mean yeah that's probably what it's for, if only she actually is a more burgeon focused unit. i'd rather use a off fielder and have a Dendro/Cryo or hydro unit as the on fielder and if i want a on field burgeon trigger i'd rather run Yanfei/Klee or if i want to then a c6 bennett since i can move a little freely and not be stuck in an animation and not to mention they all require less er. Now when it comes to off field though, i had experience with it and man it feels slow, it can clear for sure but... man it feels pretty Inconsistent, like it's slow(which might seem good in practic but it's not.) and at times it doesn't do well against tall enemies.

[@amitsamad2378]

Make a video about failed artifacts...this one was so good. 👍

[@KazeMemaryu]

Dehya in particular has become a hallmark of failure for Genshin's design team. According to intel from beta testers, her numbers were nerfed multiple times despite already not performing well. Then they release her and immediately confirm she will be banished to the Standard Banner, treating her like a nuisance. And when basically everyone complains about how fundamentally broken she is, miHoYo puts out an extensive Feedback section dedicated to detailing issues and shortcomings, but they end up doing absolutely nothing with it. At that point, I came to realize that miHoYo doesn't care. Or rather, they don't need to care. Casuals with little to no understanding of the metagame spend significant amounts of money on the game, and they can't be bothered to complain about a character they only get for the collection. And the same can be said for the whales, who saw the writing on the wall and skipped her entirely. In other words, money talks. And the money certainly didn't go towards Dehya, so appeasing a vocal minority would put them in hot water over nothing. She has her stigma, and short of releasing a completely separate character to do what Dehya couldn't, there will be no fixing her kit. The only thing I simply don't understand is: why? Why sabotage Dehya to such an extent? Why bother designing her, putting her smack-dab in the center of the main story, and then do everything wrong imaginable in spite of her popularity by that point? Even from a business standpoint, I struggle to find meaning in how awful miHoYo treated her. And it's frustrating because miHoYo pretended to care, but evidently couldn't even be bothered to value the time many people, including me, put into the feedback section.

[@jacktheripper7935]

I have a theory : They tried to make a "different" kit for her => failed because they didn't realized (stupid of them) that the game isn't suited for a damage mitigation unit (look at Fu Xuan in HSR, it works well there because the game involves 4 characters in turn based fights) => saw that vacations were near (new year) => became lazy and went for the "f**k it" solution by making her bad af without big changes => threw her in the standard banner and hope that people would forget her.

[@sweetie4655]

i lost my 50 50 yesterday to dehya, is there any reason to use her?

[@internetghost469]

Interruption Res buff And minimal pyro application And the most important reason of all: she’s hot.

[@user-li2rd7uy8e]

Just get 3 free wishes and forget

[@azucoa8399]

Absolute best underwater fighter :3 ( and she's a pretty ok burgeon unit, she's also a good driver for furina teams imo )

[@Otherface]

Neuvillette can work with her. Somewhat.

[@hayakawaken9493]

I used her in my lyney/chevreuse comp and Neuvilette team when I only had C0 Neuvi. It works but without C2 it's really hard to recommend.

[@BurnedRetinas]

I've tinkered with Dehya, and while her burst damage isn't amazing, I've found using Kuki's E. Skill in conjunction with it, along with Chevreuse, can create some good overload damage. Granted, that can be achieved with Raiden Ei, but it maximises Dehya's burst output. And her resistance boost is great for Neuvillette. Dehya may have a misguided kit, but I love playing her

[@AbsoleonDisaster]

It would be great if the next topic you could touch on is Ayato and how Neuvillette has powercrept him, even though Hoyoverse has been staunchly against powercreep for a long while

[@usmanya5110]

the dude's honestly been struggling to find a place i mean he's mostly just a comfort option but he's never great anywhere. the only team where i think he's best in is also contentious with Kokomi.

[@gabrielebasa4292]

The thing about gacha games if the character is not unique enough for them to not be replaced in their niche or are just so strong that if a unit is better they would just break the game then the units you love are just gonna get worse in worse unless they get buffed by new artifacts and or characters but if there a dps thats simple in gameplay then they are gonna get screwed over since yeah the new god tier support can help them but whats to say it wont help the better newer dps

[@saimfaisal6795]

Failed characters are just characters that do things that aren't needed, it's not that they're bad in anyway. If there was content that revolves infusions or physical DMG or something, then some 'useless' characters might actually be pretty decent Also i wouldnt count dehya as failed. Sure, shes pretty bad, but she actually does somewhat function as a support. I would say failed characters would be someone like xinyan, who genuinely cant be used unless extensive investment is used

[@mkgaming5823]

She may function as a support but that slot is better filled by other characters and there is no real niche where her support is really needed

[@saimfaisal6795]

​@@mkgaming5823fair enough and I agree. She's just not completely useless is what I'm trying to say, despite what everyone else says about her

[@lafeechloe6998]

@@saimfaisal6795 She is Tho. In the sense that whatever she does, Thomas does it better. Damage mitugation ? As shield block 100% as long as it's up. Interruption res ? His refreshing shield grant you a full 18s vs 9s for Dehya. Pyro app? Thomas is miles better. add some cons and he can even somewhat buff

[@F1ll1nTh3Blanks]

Or, they're also just bad because of poor uptime and low numbers. It happens, Hoyoverse can design weak kits, it happend.

[@lafeechloe6998]

@@ascreamingarcticfox5395 Yes solely because they physically can't work with Thomas not because of her own strenght. Also from my experience with Ganyu and my c2 Dehya i'm not even sure that she is worth using since she only grand re to interruption for 3 mere CA at c0. You're better of Using yanfei's shield

[@MiuMiu0735]

I feel like for me the way hoyo can handle buffs and nerfs can be similar to how nintendo deals with smash bros. Like i remember back when they nerfed palutena’s forward aerial attack making it’s end lag the same as it was in the previous smash bros iteration but she still continued to be a low s tier character in the game. This can apply to zhongli of course obviously he was buffed and that made him the best shielder in the game topped by no one at all but the buffs and nerfs they make do not need to be huge nor do they need to change the character completely

[@UnclePunchalot]

I wonder should devs change max lvl to 100 after Genshin part 2 release (I expect it to happen after Snezhnaya or Kaenria). Some of this "failed" character could be fixed if you add good ascension 90+ passive, it also could equalize OP units (granting them less powerfull passives).