Why People Have Stopped Playing Pokemon Trainer | Super Smash Bros. Ultimate

Pokemon Trainer was widely considered one of the best characters in the game during the first full year of Smash Ultimate, illustrated by their great representation and equally great tournament results. Following the return to offline in 2021, Pokemon Trainer has declined significantly in popularity. Today we're gonna talk about why that's the case in Why NO ONE Plays: Pokemon Trainer.
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[@Matt-qk8yf]

Shame they’ve lost competitive relevance because they’re one of the coolest designed fighters in the game and by far the best representative of Pokémon as a franchise

[@SineFineInanis]

Pyra and Mythra without the steroids

[@n-man8208]

@@SineFineInanis yes yes

[@lock_checker4342]

Absolutely

[@holdenthompson202]

Super fun character and amazing design

[@y.cyferfreemoney]

Never understood why they never put actual fighting Pokémon in this game like Hitmonchan/Hitmonlee or Machamp. Move sets would be lit. Even a Primeape would be dope. I get Pikachu, but Jigglypuff smfh

[@Catspirit123]

Still one of the most exciting additions to the franchise tbh

[@PhailRaptor]

I lol'd pretty hard at "warcrimes for aerials". It's so true, Ivysaur has some of the best in the game. Which is pretty bizarre for a plant.

[@ayar2]

Piranha Plant cant even be footstoled on the ground.

[@jirehtheprovider]

see the memes on its upair. no, its down air to be specific. almost sonic levels of ridiculous. such fun memories as a casual

[@number090684]

Something, something vines that can blot out the sun?

[@Litten-sb7eg]

Well a plant also has one of the best special moves too so not too crazy lmao

[@dmfyre]

at the very least, they're one of the most entertaining characters to watch imo. Being 3 characters in one and each one having different strengths and weaknesses provides a good amount of variance in a match, plus seeing how different players pilot them

[@Ravenbeak2564]

if it's a solo ivy mu it's a bit lamer but yeah i agree.

[@takarijbartleby]

I think one thing you forgot to mention was that PT had actual type matchups in Brawl, further cementing Ivysaur as the worst of the 3. There are a plethora of fire based moves in Smash compared to water or grass.

[@Flash33c]

In fact unless I'm mistaken Ivysaur is the only instance of grass type damage in smash period, which was both a blessing and a curse.

[@DaakkuuYRS]

@@Flash33c In smash 4, Megaman had one of his specials as leaf blades (As the game let you change movesets). It wasn't aviable in tournaments, and I'm pretty sure that it is not how it works in Smash 4, but still.

[@mastermewtwo5503]

@@Flash33c Potential other plant-based attacks may be Villager's tree, and Mega Man's Leaf Shield. Then Charizard is weak to water, which Squirtle and Olimar had in Brawl (not sure if Mario's FLUDD counted, it pushes people) then Greninja in Smash 4. Fire though, it's probably the most prevalent element in video games period (most characters in Smash have some form of fire attacks, within Smash or outside of it).

[@jasonkeith2832]

Wasn't there also a fatigue mechanic in Brawl that actively dropped your damage if you didn't swap regularly?

[@ilikedooooooodes7963]

@@jasonkeith2832 did you watch the video?

[@TheEmperorGulcasa]

One of their biggest problems compared to pyra and mythra (similar to shulk's issue) is that their swap is not as on demand and fully under control as Aegis. PT has to do a fixed cycle, meaning you can't just be squirtle whenever you want unless you potentially want to do two swaps successively. Combined with their swap being longer and stalling them, and having to do two swaps is a downtime and risk. Shulk similarly can't just be any monado mode he wants at any time. He's got a fixed duration and cooldown on his arts that he's got to constantly juggle. He can't just go to kill mode or tank mode at any split second he wants. Aegis at least can always swap to speed form or kill form at any time and their swap is smooth and fast.

[@N12015]

And before, because you never cared about Charizard since it was terrible and Ivysaur kinda overtuned, you could just play as either a Plant Byleth or as a Mini-Mario aka 2 decent characters on their own, just like Pyra and Mythra. Now you need all 3 to work, which is a bit too much to handle and also very exploitable for the opponent.

[@measlesplease1266]

People with your mindset are lame. The swap is supposed to be a strategic follow up/mix up.

[@TheEmperorGulcasa]

@@measlesplease1266 What I said literally interferes with doing what you said. You got them in disadvantage and want to finish them off with zard or smash art? Well you were squirtle and 2 swaps will be enough time for them to escape, or you tried smash art earlier and it's on cooldown too bad. Zoning them with Ivysaur and wanna change to rushing them down to catch them off guard? Gotta go through zard first and let your opponent figure out what you're doing.

[@measlesplease1266]

That's a pretty niche situation cause if you were any good with PT you could kill with any 3 of the characters.

[@TheEmperorGulcasa]

@@measlesplease1266 Lol, just git gud then huh? Sure, go ahead and beat Leo with your infinite skill and I'll believe you.

[@samson18]

PT's disadvantage is by far one of the most daunting factors when it comes to their pros and cons. They've been my main for the better part of a few months now but it can be difficult navigating through matches with the lack of speed and overall lag they have at times. Even then, they're one of the characters that kept me motivated enough to keep practicing Ultimate, so I'm thankful. Plus they're fun to experiment with.

[@mac_chappy]

You forgot to mention in Brawl they used to take more damage based off the element they got hit by. For example Ivy took more to fire attacks.

[@lasercraft32]

Yeah making Ivysaur the most vulnerable of them all, since _nobody_ has water or grass attacks except PT, but nearly EVERYONE has fire attacks. XP Classic Brawl logic lol.

[@BigForAHedgehog]

@@lasercraft32 Brawl absolutely LOVED Ivysaur, didn't they? :/

[@flameofmage1099]

@@lasercraft32 Was Squirtle not weak to electric/energy moves?

[@lasercraft32]

@@flameofmage1099 Nope. They added the weaknesses so that the three would counter each other. :P

[@flameofmage1099]

@@lasercraft32 Oh ok. Don't know why I thought that

[@Rhy2412TitanGamer]

PT also has a insane amount of matchups to learn, courtesy of having 3 characters in one. It may be easy to play each pokemon to their strengths, but sometimes you might be matchup checked if you do not know how to fight against a character with just one pokemon.

[@Ravenbeak2564]

it's not as hard as you think, some mu's like snake or steve are literally just play ivy, spacies are usually mostly squirtle, then there's others where you use all 3.

[@ssbfan33]

Pokemon Trainer was my main in Brawl and when Red returned in Ultimate he went back to my main. I honestly don't care if he isn't used highly in competition play because I still like Red.

[@InfinityBarn]

Someone in the PT discord was talking about convincing Quidd to drop out of college so that we would have some sort of representation. We're starving out here man

[@thepigeonman_]

I was honestly expecting a why everyone plays for PT, excited to hear your thoughts as always Edit: upon watching the video the mental aspect of playing pt is interesting. I've never really thought about the mental aspect of learning a character with a very unorthodoxed play style IG that's why we don't see many olimar or pacman players

[@Chillaccino1]

Thank god for that

[@patrickburton1401]

It’s really not that mentally exhausting. There’s no depth to any of the 3 individually. Anyone with a good grasp on fundies can pilot PT with decent success. Having your switches restrained to a set cycle is the main MU deterrent, which is just a mechanic of the game and not something under the player’s control.

[@gqboygboy6930]

I think a new series that should exist is like “Why MORE people should play _____” and it details a character’s strengths that are good in the current meta but not much people play them unless it’s too similar to “Why No one plays.” Some characters who fit that bill are like Terry, Young Link, Ness, or Samus

[@Spyder-Marth]

Agreed.

[@JackKieser]

This is such a good idea.

[@yurplethepurple2064]

I think this is a good idea but the example of ness being underplayed is simply not true

[@PlumEXE]

but those 4 are so cringe

[@bowandarrow7658]

Please don't tell more people to play ness

[@charliekosh1425]

13:07 i will never do something as impressive as that

[@Wizard_Lizard_]

"No one" is definitely not the term I'd use.

[@SSM24_]

Pokémon Trainer is my main so I've been looking forward to this video for a while. Honestly mostly what I expected - having to learn 3 individual movesets and 3 times as many matchups make them probably the hardest character to just pick up and learn, especially compared to many other characters who are both simpler and higher tier. That said I still think they're an incredibly fun and rewarding character if you put the time in - being able to just _entirely switch archetypes in the middle of the match_ is so freeing, especially as someone who tends to get bored playing one character after not too long.

[@ellostove]

you worded this so nicely thank you for sharing your perspective

[@joshmiller1552]

The biggest buff they should have done is be able for you to switch "backwards". (Squirtle switching to Charizard without needing to go to Ivysaur first)

[@number090684]

This could have been easily implemented too by letting the player skip one Pokemon during the switch by holding the special button instead of simply tapping it.

[@Alucard4337]

The best buff would be to fix ivysaur tether / Up special.

[@heyitsmort7744]

@@Alucard4337 I would actually rather have the first thing 😂 Vine whip is fine you just need to position it correctly. Going straight from ivy to squirtle between stocks would be perfect

[@drbiohazmat]

As an ex-PT main, I'm so happy you made this video. I know my reason for stopping, but wondered what made everyone else stop

[@castonyoung7514]

What was your reason? (And why make me ask?)

[@holdenthompson202]

Please do share!

[@Alucard4337]

PT is the most overrated character in ultimate (sadly)

[@garylum1686]

Ex-ex PT main. We spent some time apart but we got back together. Jokes aside, I was really upset about how terrible they did against ranged fighters along with generally terrible landing options and ledge options. I figured their meta couldn’t develop much further and that the counterplay was too apparent. However, they’re easily the most fun character I’ve ever played in smash. It’s enough for me to look past the bad sides and push their strengths even harder

[@LinkMaster5555]

​@@Alucard4337yeah theres way more over-rated characters

[@gobairs]

I'm a current PT main that dropped the character for all the reasons you mentioned. However I actually came back to playing them after a year because I missed the feeling of always learning something new about a matchup. Yes it's a lot of work as you said but I also think that's part of the fun of ultimate.

[@shoebillenjoyer5674]

“warcrimes to aerials” i was not expecting that holy shit lmfao

[@Sanjixoxo]

Totally off topic from the video but that cipher peon battle theme from pokemon coliseum takes me back :,)

[@oddishu]

I love how a lot of the recent videos I've been watching have been using the Pokemon Colosseum OST. Such an iconic soundtrack!

[@soothsayerbbx1573]

It was mentioned that pt is momentum based. I think the idea of trying to figure out all matchups is a little weird. Especially since there are almost 100 characters, i feel it makes more sense to not go in with matchup knowledge per-say. some adjustments to gameplan makes sense, but since their offense is so good, they stay strong because I think it’s better for them to stay strong and confident and just stick to the strong offense. Overthinking disadvantage and trying to dissect the roster counteracts the foundation of the character. Focus on your game, know the character rather than the opponent, be confident and get creative. In my opinion, that is the magic of PT and is what makes the character worth playing

[@brooksyang5834]

Another reason why PT fell off is because of severe nerfs. Ivysaur lost his broken dair. Yea it's still good but before it was literally easier to hit the sweet spot than sour spot. He also had vine whip lose significant knockback taking away a vital kill option. Razor leaf also gained a few frames in start up.

[@playstationarusu]

Dair and vine whip are still super strong and zard was buffed in return

[@ddee_ssbu]

Pt got buffed that patch tbf

[@flippycubster9947]

I like practicing with Trainer. I think my adhd helps it but keeping track of each pokemon and their differences actually set me up with some really good neutral throw offs. Yes, i use all 3 pokes, mainly Ivy. But i feel like keeping Ivy as my neutral helps me figure out when to utilize the other 2 situationally.

[@flippycubster9947]

--rather than focusing on pair ups

[@patrickburton1401]

It’s good to keep a good grasp on all 3, with squirtle’s strength’s being particularly more difficult than the other 2 to master (still very doable). I’ve learned to have a determined amount of % I want to use each 3 in a given MU. For example; Falcon hates squirtle, but loves charizard. Doing an 80% on squirtle and a 20% on Ivy is based af for that MU. Some MUs Squirtle can’t get in, so it’ll be more of a 10% 75% 15% where Ivy shows more strength in that given MU.

[@samk2407]

Part of the reason I picked up pokemon trainer was that you basically get to counterpick mid match if one playstyle isn't working, unlike aegis, where pyra is basically a lose neutral win advantage state button. So it's interesting that vars calls that matchup flexibility a downside where you have to have more matchup knowledge. Also no squirtle does not have an offstage remotely as bad as ganondorf I'm sorry that's egregious cap 🧢.

[@SSM24_]

I think the main thing is that there are already plenty of all-rounder characters who are already good at accommodating multiple playstyles without having to learn 3 movesets - think characters like Young Link, Wolf, or ROB. In that regard I'd honestly say Pokémon Trainer can be _less_ flexible than those characters - sure you can get access to entirely different moves that open up different options, but you have to commit to doing so and can't easily switch back if you change your mind. Also no I'm definitely inclined to agree that Squirtle's offstage is godawful. The only thing saving it is that you can switch to Ivysaur and Charizard for their much better recoveries.

[@chezcak486]

Kind of unrelated, but in a game where kill throws are rare, why does PT have SEVEN?! (squirtle bthrow, ivy dthrow and bthrow, charizard fthrow and bthrow and upthrow)

[@patrickburton1401]

Also each of the 3 have a very good combo game out of grab. Zard even has low % back throw cheese that can steal a stock. All 3 have amazing grabs too. Squirtle dash grab is god tier, Ivy Nearly has tether grab range, zard has a grapplers grab range.

[@samurottboi369]

Back-throw into Flare Blitz is such a headass combo

[@tristancharles4411]

I main PT cause I love Pokémon and they’re the coolest character to me personally. I love the Kanto starter line and charizard is so fun to use as well as the other two . They’re difficult to use forsure but when I use them I genuinely feel like a Pokémon trainer . I get hype just switching all throughout matches and changing my play style up randomly to throw my opponents off . If need be , I will choose the best for a hard to overcome matchup and strictly stick to that mon but I find myself being flexible enough with all three after so much playtime and training with the three of them .

[@Iras-ol8qs]

I think it would be better if squirtle was replaced by wartortle and ivysaur to bulbasaur. Bulbasaur being a little more evasive but lighter won't hurt it much, since it is playing on distance anyway, while wartortle will reward with a little bit more survivability and kill power, but still lacking physics. And also giving them a down-b would help a lot. In order to change pokémon they have to shield and press b, just like inkling charges her ink. Double b of course meaning to skip directly to the other pokémon.

[@shadowraith10]

At long last. A video that explains my exact feelings about P.T. and why I love AND hate this character and being a main of this character. Great advantage state on all 3, awful disadvantage on all 3... overall a glass cannon jack of all trades master of none who relies on matchup knowledge for all 3 characters and in depth knowledge of how every move in your arsenal works.

[@MoistMarsupial]

Personally I just hate how charizard's forward air doesn't auto cancel anymore like it did in smash 4. Without that marth-like fair to rely on in neutral he feels SO clunky to try to solo main

[@patrickburton1401]

Yup. Zard just be dash dancing and Ftilting against any competent opponent. Best to just use zard at high percents. Zard recovery is good, but without auto cancel fair you will be stuck at ledge until death.

[@LazyStarrfish]

This one is painful for me. By far one of my top 3 favorite characters in the game. I’m glad there is still some good representation of Pt with Quidd, DDee, Beast, etc out there. But they have still fallen far compared to the early days of Ultimate. Maybe PT will return to relevance one day Also, great music for this video! Pokémon Coliseum music is always a treat to hear

[@number090684]

On the bright side at least it's not that the characters are lacking to be used in high level competitive play as much as they require lots of skill and knowledge of the game and are mentally taxing to use. I wish characters like Ganondorf, and to a lesser extent Ike, had these problems.

[@LazyStarrfish]

@@number090684 true, can’t argue with that. I have that same feeling about Banjo that you have about Ganondorf. It can always be worse (unless you’re bottom or low tier)

[@kaisac.]

I was going crazy because I've been watching your videos and thinking how your voice sounds so recognizable. And then I realized I watched a bunch of your league videos on your other channel when my friends made me download it.

[@MidianVGC]

PT isnt the best but has the greatest potential. Like it’s been highlighted in the video, we’re talking about potential only, and we know that in real life, full potential is hardly ever reached. I’d love to see more PT in tournaments top8s.

[@amberknight7301]

As someone who used to main Pokemon Trainer, there's one other big problem. These characters have NOTHING to deal with zoning. The only one with the neutral to combat zoners is Ivysaur and Ivysaur is the worst at approaching. Squirtle can slip by, but you're at the mercy of guessing what the opponent will do. Charizard is too big and his approach is really obvious, so that's that.

[@valhallavalhalla5693]

I enjoy this character a lot. It feels good to learn how each Pokémon works and functions together. Even if the character is overshadowed, they are still fun for me

[@TDSpyder]

There's also one more reason. PT gets a LOT out of grabs, combos and kills. It gets to the point where mid-level players get so used to grabbing it becomes a bad habit, and even higher up - you can see it even in the mentioned game of Leo vs Tweek. I've mained PT since day 1, I defintely fell into this trap myself and I see the shortcoming of the character, and whenever I go ahead and play other characters I do tend to go for a lot of grabs myself (which ironically becomes an upside to my Roy and Fox). They also lack the typical mixup of landing with an aerial and using a ground move afterwards (aside from squirtle), charizard in general doesnt have safe aerials so his gameplay is callout heavy. Great video

[@N12015]

ALL of the Pokémon trio are great with Grabs: they have 6 kill grabs after all, and combo kills for Ivysaur as well. Also don't forget the switch pokemon becoming another bad Habit. PT is in general creates A LOT of bad habits proplayers are good at exploiting.

[@squirrelkingcometh]

I have been a huge fan of Pokemon my whole life and Smash since Melee. I've played the melee roster a million times over growing up but lost the game cartridge in my late teens (top 10 anime betrayals) and finally own Smash Ultimate. I love this game so much ive always been obsessive over stuff like frame data even though I was never particularly good- I just thought it was so cool and its carried into my adult life as a special interest I can now obsess over again. My biggest problem as a player was sticking to one character....so i kind of half - 3/4 learned the entire roster without having a main - until friends had Brawl/Project M and I became a Luigi main immediately. He doesn't feel the same in Ultimate though and I've been playing the roster again trying to find a main and I stumbled onto Pokemon Trainer yesterday - and man I have not had this much fun since I first found out about Luigi Down-Taunt. This is the perfect character for me to nerd out with, and there's enough variety to fit each of my favored playstyles (B&P/Heavy go brr) and learn another (edge guarding/grab game). The only thing I'm missing now is item sniping - but i can settle for Squirtle Side-B because that dmg immunity is so fun to mess around with and he just becomes the projectile. Perfect Video - all the more reason to give PT some love

[@holdenthompson202]

As a PT main, I really appreciate you addressing this! I think that you made a really great point about their disadvantage state, they all suffer greatly and their options feel easier to bait and punish then most top/high tiers. But I disagree with PT being a difficult character. I think that they have some of the easiest 30-40 percent combos to pull off, and that one of the hardest things to do with them is squirtle’s jab locks which isn’t too hard. Switching between damage dealing, into Zoning and Kill confirming, into baiting and raw killing, feels pretty intuitive. I think PT’s biggest problem that made them decline is that most of the top tiers can handle all 3 Pokémon very well. Pika, joker, peach, palu, wolf, I don’t think have to revolutionize their game plan to handle each individual Pokémon. And switching Pokémon off stage is easy to punish when you are squirtle especially. I think the top 10 keep Pokémon trainer out comfortably in the 20-10 position. None of the Pokémon ever feel safe from getting KO’d, mostly cause squirtle is light, Ivy is Surprisingly light, and you’re often charizard at higher percent. I also think Ness, Luigi, and Game and Watch all do well against PT. Due to all that I think most player’s eventually realize that whatever secondary they try and pick up to cover PT’s weaknesses, are usually just an out right better character. Just my opinion, you are the best for making this, thank you!

[@Kwan8]

What is the website he used at 1:07

[@ShinyMew76]

Remember when Quidd won Lets Make Big Moves and PKMN Trainer’s stock skyrocketed for a little bit?

[@ThomasCampione]

I don’t think PT is as exhausting as a character like Sheik. I actually don’t even think Ivysaur or Charizard is that difficult in terms of character mastery. But the part about character matchups is a very good point.

[@patrickburton1401]

I agree. They’re not mentally exhausting for anyone who has a good grasp on the game.

[@smashdriven1640]

I guess I’m drawn to the complex characters because I’ve mained Bayo for quite a while and now I’ve switched to Pokémon Trainer. I wouldn’t say that PT has the worst profits for all the effort it takes to master them. I think of characters like Ken and Ryu and maybe Ice Climbers who take a ton of work and then are just as good as a simple character but I do get what you’re saying.

[@StarVerix]

You should do a video on the Ice Climbers

[@cycross3969]

Your analysis is so on point, it's extremely enjoyable watching your videos!

[@brooksyang5834]

I mean Leffen also stopped playing Ultimate. He also had a very good PT and nearly got on the PGR with the character. Likely as a result of not getting on though it killed his motivation to play and he started focusing back on Melee.

[@fillerpoint555]

You know, I’m noticing a running theme of every character in this series and even Why Everyone Plays having bad disadvantage. Are there any characters with _good_ disadvantage in this game?

[@zombie-bv9pr]

zss and game and watch are like the only ones i can think of lol

[@mrbigotes9974]

ZSS, Game and Watch, Meta Knight, Pikachu, Lucario, Mii Brawler... Being "good" in disadvantage is extremely difficult to measure because some aspect of defense lacks in pretty much any character besides the one I mention

[@Darknessssxz]

I feel like many of the top players dropped PT after the ivysaur nerfs. 1.0 ivysaur was over turned with down air spike box, razor leaf shield damage, down throw to up B sweet spot killing at 70 to 90%. Most players barely used the other two and would win with just ivy alone. Luckily they gave some love to charizard which helped to balance them all better after the nerfs... at least.

[@simonlupien620]

nice touch to include pkm colosseum music always amazing songs

[@pamoon_]

I tried it I played Ivysaur when the game started and then kept dying when thrown offstage Also shouts to the Cipher Peon theme from Colosseum Miror B’s themes would have been nice in Smash

[@patrickburton1401]

You can’t use vine whip vertically. You need to be back from the ledge enough that ivy’s “eyes” can still see the ledge, or the up b will just shark the stage and not grab ledge. Vine whip reaches from stoooopid distances.

[@jukeboxhero30]

Completely understand all of your points and I agree. Im still gonna main PT though just because Ive had the most fun with the pokemon of any other characters in the game. And who can so to a solid Ivysaur spike?? 🤣

[@timgrossman84]

Would love to see a Meta Knight video. He was easily the most popular character in Brawl and not many people play him in Ultimate.

[@tannerarmstrong1496]

My number one change i would add to pokemon trainer would be to make it so if you B-Reverse down-B, you would cycle through the pokemon the opposite way. I think that would be pretty cool.

[@jmurray1110]

Honestly I think he’s fine where he is The only change I would make is let us skip the queue Like squirle to charzard by double tapping B for recovery of a quick switch for solomains would be far better

[@thatonecabridog]

I was just thinking "yo wouldn't it be cool if Vars made a video about Pokemon Trainer" like an hour ago lmaoo Nice!

[@saxeladude]

pt and shulk stat shifts are also a trait shared with olimar. though for olimar it's very much worse as it's more complex and are more vulnerable without using it. like if shulk had all the debuffs of his monado arts all the time so is forced to use manado arts to make one of them good for a short bit.

[@allenearl1514]

I honestly kinda wish that Charizard was still available to play as its own character (with Rock Smash instead of switching out). I enjoyed playing him in Smash 4, even without the other two.

[@SonicTheCutehog]

Are you really forgetting that Ultimate also removed Type Effectiveness for Pokémon Trainer, which heavily buffed Ivysaur?

[@cspt4034]

PT is the coolest character in the game but people just don’t wanna play em

[@Wario_B]

Sad to see since I loved watching them back then

[@firenze6478]

I miss rocksmash. It gave charizard landing options, super armor and dealt tons of damage. They killed him when they removed it

[@stevencollins7225]

Once upon a time, my main was Charizard and Cloud's up-air was really good.

[@munchrai6396]

Surprised there was no mention of Brawl's knockback type effectiveness, something that would be really cool to see on Squirtle again given all of the fire attacks that Smash has

[@HikariSnowflake]

I mean I still love playing as Pokémon Trainer and Bowser JR Brawl-Ultimate But I do primarily use Squirtle and use Ivysaur and ChArizard as a backup for combos or certain attacks

[@crunchy_wafers]

It'd be interesting to see an episode on Duck Hunt, and why nobody plays them. I never see anyone who says they play them

[@True_Damage69]

Most duck hunts I've played against are either big brain people who makes the most insane reads,or they are beyond garbage

[@crunchy_wafers]

@@True_Damage69 kinda how Duck Hunt players work. He's overly complex and requires a keen understanding of the game to make efficient, sort of like Robin in a regard

[@ThatsSoGiorgio]

I’ve always switched between Pokémon because I loved taking advantage of the different strategy they offer. Squirtle is quick and his water gun helps keep opponents away while you do quick damage if you can get close, Ivysaur helps do extra damage while being able to take some hits and then Charizard does the big damage.

[@DennysArrow]

WOW, three uploads from my favorite YT?! what a day.

[@ShadowsWrath4]

8:48 So what you're saying is, in order to play Pokemon Trainer, you need to know your type matchups and be the very best, like no one ever was. *[Johto Champion Battle begins ominously playing and increasing in volume]* I think I know a guy who can coach you on that. "......."

[@BaneRain]

I think a good solution might be to have special inputs that allow for a reverse swap to the previous pokemon. Would make the other forms more accessible without beong a huge power increase

[@SMOG8]

I wouldn't say PT is as mentally draining as you say because all three of them have very simple game plans.

[@bassist_matt]

agreed dude. I hard disagreed with this video but thats just imo! Vars still ofc has killer video quality.

[@patrickburton1401]

100%

[@SSM24_]

Even if each of them is fairly simple, it can still be mentally taxing to entirely switch gears and start working with an entirely different set of muscle memory on a moment's notice.

[@patrickburton1401]

@@SSM24_ it’s not too hard if you already have experience playing with a fair amount of the roster. It’s def only easy if you have a good amount of skill in the game already.

[@SMOG8]

@@SSM24_ Honestly, not really. I cannot confirm this at a high level of competitive play but if you know how to play them it isn't as hard to change playstyles as it seems.

[@VanHalenfreak9]

these are like my favorite videos on youtube

[@mmonkeybone]

I used to love pokemon trainer but i liked the older charazard that had bouldersmash it was a great counter and could time to block attacks was just amazing its such a shame they never expanded it to have added more pokemon and chose your lineup instead.

[@nathanielbass771]

my list of reasons in games before ultimate: they're a niche that's only based on the Pokemon franchise; their advantages outweigh their disadvantages in every form; the "exhaustion" mechanic does not go away in a typical match's length, meaning that if you are good enough to survive, all three pokemon will be slowed and have lower damage; Other than Squirtle, both ivysaur and charizard are slow with telegraphed, multi-frame attacks; Squirtle has very little knockback and his only real means of damage is catching an opponent in any of his multi-hit moves with perfect accuracy

[@Chillaccino1]

The character I JUST DROPPED. Can u do one for Pichu, the one I dropped PT for?

[@idesofjune]

Looking forward to this one

[@willygrif]

Great content, lovely edited and paced. Invest in new mic next

[@Lambchop909]

I love PT, and they’ve been my main for a couple of years now! They certainly have a broken advantage state, but all 3 Pokémon share 2 fatal flaws: they have slow air-speed and can’t get off ledge. Feeling helpless in disadvantage can get annoying, so I understand why lots of players like other characters that do better in those areas

[@komane9924]

I play pokemon trainer and i can say that pt isnt mental draining at all. Pt is very easy to play

[@shadowraith10]

P.T. is easy for those who have an easy time learning multiple characters but not everyone is built the same. I love P.T. and probably always will regardless of what I say.

[@patrickburton1401]

100% said the same thing. PT main since release.

[@glebevstigneev484]

Can you make a video on BOTW Link? He’s my main but unfortunately gets very little representation. Would love to see what you think about him

[@Fibless]

I swear the only pokemon out of the 3 of them that makes perfect sense without really thinking is Squirtle, the other 2 make me feel like I have to actually figure out how to play them specifically

[@patrickburton1401]

Really? Squirtle is def the hardest of the 3. It’s easier to move around with the lil dude, but getting in and not over committing is learnt from good experience. Ivy is easy and good. Charizard is easy and cheesy.

[@Fibless]

@@patrickburton1401 to be fair I am saying this from the perspective of somepne who doesn't use PT, but also purely from a pilotting perspective, Squirtle just FEELS like he makes the most sense I agree the other 2 are better and they can make easy and goofy kills happen with less effort, but they just FEEL different, again, purely from a pilotting perspective

[@patrickburton1401]

@@Fibless they do feel very different. The attributes of Ivy clash to what squirtle can do, so it can be hard to get used to. Zard’s ground speed is surprisingly amazing, but very sluggish in the air. You have to get used to playing with their attributes.

[@shadowraith10]

Coming back to this video, I can definitely say more than once I've used Side B as Squirtle when I wanted Razor Leaf, and same as Charizard. There's times I've done up B when wanting vine whip as well as the wrong pokemon. I OCCASIONALLY get mixed up but thats out of raw frustration at my opponent reading my every move. (I have one guy I play with who's infinitely better and genuinely doesn't seem to think about what he does but just plays so perfectly as a majority of the roster, but he mains Roy and Ganondorf.)

[@unknownsoldier6731]

Really surprised you haven’t done a chrom one yet, like he was looked at as the best sword character at the start of this game

[@Proven_Taxpayer]

PT is always gonna be strong

[@finalboss2879]

Main reason he was dropped was because of the Ivy nerfs, Ivy was hella broken in vanilla ultimate but after they gave him the "proper" nerfs ppl dropped him cuz he wasn't "broken" anymore Edit To give y'all a heads up, ppl use to only play Squirtle and Ivy or just solo Ivy and they'd win games. They never touched Zard cuz Zard was ALOT weaker then he is now. But Ivy didn't have bad mu before the nerfs.

[@SSM24_]

Funny thing is I think most people agree that PT was overall buffed by that patch - it's just you actually have to use the character's gimmick now so less people are interested :p

[@benderisgreat95able]

Squirtle for pokes, Ivy for aerial fighting, and Charizard for finishers. Also can just counter people based on what speed or class they're weakest against? The versatility is nuts for creative fighters.

[@alexandertorres9756]

I think PT’s switch down b was meant to be their “escape from pressure” move. It can be useful at times, but it’s only really good once or twice before your opponent catches on. With that and the predictable nature of the switch, pt falls flat I do think that if given a drop down menu to switch between Pokémon could have given pt a bit more of an edge. Hell, if you included the drop down and if you “selected” your current Pokémon to perform a special move (like charizards rock smash) it would have given them more of a get off me then

[@reperfan4]

I feel like the easiest solution would just be to make it so the switch can pick one or the other based on if your tap or held the B button. Tapping swaps to the next in rotation while holding swaps to the previous one in the rotation. If you want to give them actual Down B moves again, I feel a more interesting (if admittedly also more limiting) option would be to change the switching mechanic to work on Shield+B like Inkling's refill mechanic. The obvious downside is that this eliminates the ability to switch in midair, but with access to actual Down B options it might be worth it depending on what kind of options it gives them.

[@patrickburton1401]

I still play them. I’m not a tourny player, tho I’d love to be. I think they’re great and solo viable. They don’t have any “unwinnable” MUs. Some are hard such as Mario/Palu/Pac-Man. I would love to see more top player reps.

[@chiliandcornbread09]

Young link might be unwinable tbh, rob is also extremely rough

[@patrickburton1401]

@@chiliandcornbread09 young link is def a rough MU. Amazing zoning and good enough boxing and decent disjoints to deal with squirtle.

[@EqualityEarth]

Even though I don’t play as any Pokémon I think the trio should have had 4 specials, and the switch being an out of the box input like L+R like it was for Lighting’s paradigms in Dissidia

[@Ethonra]

The Pokémon Colosseum music was a nice choice. Fun game.

[@71615764]

brawler era? bro I don't even play smash, but still enjoy ur vids hahah

[@MVGUY_ENTERTAINMENT]

You should make a video for byleth, I feel like I don’t see a lot of them except for people who play the character for two seconds because they wanna be like mkleo

[@chefdunsparce4254]

Wish this video came out when I was still playing pt: I spent the game's life trying to figure out why I was never able to play well as all the mons together but often did better when I was able to stay one mon

[@ComboFood]

Another point that didn’t get brought up is that you need to be able to enjoy each of them I personally think they’re the most fun characters in their archetypes but I know multiple people that either really like 1 but not the other 2 or like 2 but are put off by the other one so they don’t have the motivation to pick up the character to begin with

[@naejimba]

I always thought they should have treated switching pokemon like they do when switching characters in a tag team fighter. Switching essentially creates an opportunity the pokemon switching in can capitalize on. There would have to be some sort of limit on it or a reason why you wouldn't want to constantly switch though, or such a mechanic can become degenerate quickly. But imagine basically being able to do a combo that sees you toggle through your pokemon to extend it. Anyway, at least something like that can give a bit of an advantage instead of simply choosing the best mediocre character to fit the situation. I would be concerned about how to limit its abuse, as something like a secondary resource to track just adds additional complexity to an already complex character. Whatever mechanic they use it should feel seamless and have easy to understand rules that means you always know if you can switch.

[@SheruMuko]

I am a Shulk main who subs 20+ characters. Including Pokemon Trainer

[@Countdownsmiles]

Pokemon trainer was the character i was the most excited for, i actually made a tshirt design for my fellow PT mains. But at the time PT was having a lot of success so i was catching heat for tier whoring so i swapped off. And i'm just now learning from this video that PT isn't really top tier anymore lol

[@InfinateRadiant]

It’s still top tier.

[@Countdownsmiles]

@@InfinateRadiant from the video it sounded like pt was high tier not necessarily top tier

[@zinogre6225]

I wish they would separate them because I keep accidentally switching from Charizard who was my Main on the Wii U. It’s hard to figure out combos when I have to keep figuring out what buttons I pressed from muscle memory that switched my character

[@jameswolf4894]

Still miss playing Charizard solo. Had him replaced with Incediroar as my casual go to.

[@pvpichozen2027]

Can you do one about king dedede, whether it’s playing or not playing Wanna hear your educated opinion