Why NO ONE Plays: Robin | Super Smash Bros. Ultimate

[@owenduffy5745]

It makes sense for the spells to run out even if they miss, but the sword should really only lose durability when actually hitting something

[@baoduong134]

I like the burn mechanic the way it is, having the item gives robin many options such as extenders, and its one of his fastest projectile so the faster the burn the better

[@MasterKnightDH]

The Thunder Sword us doing magic attacks to begin with.

[@KotaWebb]

@@baoduong134 bruh stop lying you know you’d rather keep the sword 🙄

[@nairu807]

No the sword mechanic should still stay. Sure he is using a levin sword or whatever in smash, but using lightning sword attacks should still damage the sword like it does in the FE games

[@sheridan5175]

@@nairu807 I'm pretty sure it doesn't damage the weapon if the attack misses, but I could be wrong

[@khaos4965]

I think the durability for his Levin Sword should've only decreased if the attack lands, especially since that's how it works in Fire Emblem: Attacks that miss the enemy unit don't use up any durability.

[@gumi6286]

Well, magic and bow attacks always use durability, maybe the levin sword works the same way because It is thecnically a Magic attack?

[@TyphonCH]

Seems like an oversight, but then again I try to imagine if Robin was DLC... You know his weaknesses would be made up for, and then some

[@filipower776]

@@gumi6286 the funny thing is that in Awakening, specifically, they actually only use durability when they hit, just like physical weapons

[@562.anthony2]

It would just be to broken. As someone who has always played Robin from time to time his sword is so powerful it’s kinda needed. You have so many other moves in your arsenal too that it doesn’t really matter and you still have a sword to use, it just doesn’t do a crazy amount of damage/knock back

[@LunaLuminary]

@Sar as a Robin main, you are right lol

[@MrNurdinator]

I'm a Robin main, the durability and the movement isn't really the main issue. The durability can be played around (and the item is really good for Robin), b reverse movement tech helps Robin's movement. IMO the main thing is that Robin's moves aren't more powerful than anyone else's. Levin sword is about the same strength as Roy sweet spot - and Roy has that always. Thunder is prone to being low profiled, thoron doesn't kill well for some reason, arc fire can be SDI'd really easily to prevent kill confirms, jab 2 is for some reason inconsistent which isn't great since Robin's jab kills. I would describe his power level at 80%-100%. Robin doesn't have big combo strings or cheesy kill confirms at 60 like other characters with weapon upgrades. My dream buff for Robin is that nintendo allows him to act out of Elwind 1, so he could Elwind across the stage and smack people with levin.

[@icedude_907]

Yes! Jab 2 is so funky. I also think he would benefit immensely if they removed some other bits of jank, like his forward tilt hitbox not covering high/low, or his gear draining durability before hitboxes come out. Thoron also has that 35f of extra lag in the air for some reason.

[@MrWhYYZ]

Robin has cheesy kill confirms, you should watch Mad Ice King's videos.

[@MLmaster135]

don't forget about Nosferatu, Robin's down B. its literally the freest tome throw Robin has at all times. (since the heal usually isn't too worth, especially if against button mashers) provided he can keep the enemy away, its easy to use up and pick up to throw every time it comes back(or if he loses a stock before that then it reappears immediately) I deff wish Robin's arc fire projectile couldve been buffed so that weak jabs don't outright beat it cuz i remember back in smash 4 jabs couldn't easily beat projectiles there, compared to how easily the weakest jab can do that to weak projectiles in ult.

[@TheManaPrism]

Levin sure looks more powerful than it actually is. I was surprised to see Up-air KO so late when I started playing Robin more. Funny that Corrin's Up-air is the exact opposite, it packs a punch while looking basic

[@strangejune]

What? Robin is literally filled to the brim with cheesy kill confirms and combos/strings!

[@axewlotl2677]

I remember first picking them up early in Smash 4’s lifetime solely because I thought Robin’s design and moveset looked cool. Now he’s up there with my top-3 mains even now. (Yoshi at 1, and Dark Samus at 3.) Is Robin an easy character to play? Hell no. Does he have weaknesses? HELL yes. But dammit; it’s just fun playing as a mage, and landing his kill confirms are just too satisfying.

[@trash-ken]

Fun fact: Robin gains trip chance immunity after using thoron. Moves that typically have a chance to trip such as Rob dtilt and kirby dtilt have a nul chance after Robin uses their fully charged neutral B. Moves that force the slip effect unfortunately such as diddy bananna will still cause a trip.

[@ned8896]

For how long does the immunity last?

[@trash-ken]

Until the stock ends.

[@ned8896]

@@trash-ken That's cool!

[@yanagitennen]

@@trash-ken this is a gamechanger lol now I'll just use full thoron at the beginning of every fight for trip immunity for the rest of the stock. also sucks Robin doesn't have a trip; goodness knows it'd make bronze sword less useless...

[@AtomBacon]

I mained Robin in the early days of Smash 4 and I remember at my first tournament I was complimented by my opponent (or it might have been a spectator, I forget) after a friendly for being the only person they had seen use their Down B effectively.

[@mythoughtsexactly2145]

Two things come to mind: being slow and weapon durability Let me add: His slow movement is definitely a big weakness, but i think his weapon durability is what holding him back a lot. Conceptually, he's a character who has great moves only like half the time during battle. So when you're playing as Robin you sometimes have to restrict yourself just so his tomes/levin sword wont run out at the worst time, because if you did and coupled with his middling speed, he's a sitting duck. Not to mention that unlike his smash attacks or aerials the replace his levin sword with the bronze sword, his tomes dont have a compensation too, and he has an exploitable recovery which also runs out, and he has bad tilts...

[@N12015]

Basically being a Steve but fair. People don't like that kind of micromanagement.

[@MrRedGreenBlue1]

@@N12015 I'm going to join in here and say honestly I feel like part of the problem is his moves don't feel so insanely good enough to be worth losing, with the exception of Arc Thunder

[@zephyrias]

Despite this: a doubles quick match had me and cousin crying for the hills with robin and pyra combo. 😂😂

[@MrRedGreenBlue1]

@@zephyrias Well yeah, but that's like saying Arthur, Vergil and Sentinel dominate in UMvC3. Like yeah Robin's a bit of an unusual pick but he's not unviably horrible and Aegis could realistically have Dr. Mario or Brawl Ganondorf as a partner and still come out on top.

[@vv2955]

@@zephyrias In doubles player synergy matter way more than tier lists

[@TheEpicPancake]

Robin is easily my favorite character in the game. All of the awesome traps and setups of some other characters but with an ease of use not present with those others. All at the cost of those tools having a cooldown to juggle. I dig it.

[@ArdorG.]

As a Robin main I am really curious about this video as it’s something I’ve been wondering myself. And hey, this may help me play around their strengths and weaknesses more.

[@tacoman4312]

Pick a new main idiot

[@L_3.0]

Great attitude!

[@CabeliotCometier]

Same here, Robin's ability to force approaches at specific angles and mixup projectile timings is why I've started playing them a ton, but I'm ready to see what the negatives are so I can try to cover them better.

[@SonicMegaKing]

Imagine if Samus had similar meters. Or MegaMan. No one would play them either..

[@CabeliotCometier]

After watching, the video doesn't go over anything but the obvious, which saddens me. For example of something I know is lacking from the video, Robin's combo tools have abysmal framedata or range, requiring that you call out your opponent's option in advance to rack up damage, a playstyle that makes Robin seem extremely weak on first view. Once you break away from traditional combo thinking, you can use your tools to put on comparable damage per interaction off of a projectile or spike, but that still requires planning and knowledge.

[@grimsdol4665]

I think it's mainly the weapon durability, thing is his moves are good but not really broken even without durability, but in a game where neutral is all about throwing out safe attacks constantly, hoping they hit, Durability becomes a massive problem

[@Danó_Amazu]

I have been playing robin recently and he is pretty fun, he can be a decent character to show u to not just mash because ur weapons will be gone so u gotta play patiently

[@corrinfevincenohr]

Vars I swear to god literally every time you release a new character video. The character then got great results or perform well the next few days and week. When Ken video came out, Jahzzo brought back attention to the character at Summit. Lima and Bloom for Bayo at LTC and VCA. Smub for Ridley at LTC. Kameme with Sora and Niko Top 8 cloud. Give Robin a couple of days or week and we see what happens

[@VarsIII]

It's almost like my agenda is to encourage players to try unpopular characters instead of ALL PLAYING STEVE

[@VagueCastle649]

@@VarsIII Well robin IS a good steve counterpick though.

[@corrinfevincenohr]

@@VarsIII Facts. Steve on a decline so that’s good

[@Nykonix]

Now they just released a new Robin for FEH lmao

[@corrinfevincenohr]

@@Nykonix Even more busted Robin lmao. Imma pull for her, Gregor and Phila

[@Leo22212]

My first smash main back in smash 4, I like his playstyle, but I dropped him when ultimate came out because other units looked better. Great video!

[@lordmango6060]

"other _units_ ?" Haha a FE fan I see

[@dhisufiroafrozenseraphimdragon]

@@lordmango6060 I was thinking the same at his wording.

[@sharifbrown3567]

My balanced buff for Robin would just be to give him Hero Level Speed. That'd make him viable enough for people to want to play his style. My dream buff would be 1) Hero speed 2) Infinite Tomes 3) Permanent Levin Sword for all sword based attacks, tilts and all. 4) He still drops the tomes and Levin after a certain amount of uses, but he immediately regenerates the uses and can just catch the discard for item play.

[@ekh.123]

I really like Robin design-wise, but good lord, I can't imagine playing them in such a harsh metagame. Robin definitely feels like the kind of character who can truly push their strengths to the fullest, but one bad move can cost them heavily, with a rather frustrating resource mechanic to micromanage on top of it.

[@yanagitennen]

A frustrating resource mechanic with no redeeming qualities, at that...

[@Kramburger11]

You can speed up Levin Sword's refresh timer by using certain Bronze Sword moves. Each aerial or smash attack will increase the gauge by some amount, so if you're a safe distance away from your opponent, you can throw out a few aerials to get Levin back faster.

[@Zekken_The_Lodestar]

I love how you talked about his weaknesses. As a Robin main, it really does make a huge difference without the Levin sword. May e if the Bronze Sword was an Iron or Steel one, at least Robin might be able to put up a fight when the Levin Sword's gone.

[@momok232]

The fact that Robin is different from other Fire Emblem rep in Smash is the whole reason I started playing Fire Emblem in the first place.

[@NinetyNineNo]

It's the speed. Robin has a bunch of cool strengths and interesting setups, some excellent kill confirms, damage output and aerial frame data, but he's slow as molasses. A few minor buffs to ground speed and maybe grab frame data would help out massively.

[@Zekken_The_Lodestar]

I'm going to love seeing this one. As a Robin main.

[@adrian2040]

You exist?!

[@Zekken_The_Lodestar]

@@adrian2040 yes. Yes I do.

[@azure4622]

@@adrian2040 there'd be 2 robin mains if I didn't delete smash

[@auroraborealis4468]

It's weird seeing Robin, debatably the single strongest unit in the entire Fire Emblem franchise alongside Sigurd, be reduced to such a mediocre fighter in Smash

[@sharifbrown3567]

Lore Wise, Ike is probably the strongest playable Unit, after his God buff at the end of the game. He's multi continental from scaling to the Final Boss. Robin would only be country Level after scaling to Grima

[@geo4290]

@@sharifbrown3567 he means gameplay wise. Robin is mad busted.

[@aglassofpurifiedwaterlastn1513]

In both lore and gameplay, the lords of three houses (and byleth), but especially dimitri, are the best units in the entire series Plus, in lore dimitri LITERALLY has godlike strength

[@auroraborealis4468]

@@aglassofpurifiedwaterlastn1513 while dimitri and El are both ridiculous they take some time to get off the ground, and don't wholly trivialize their respective games quite as fast and consistently as Robin or Sigurd imo though the argument could be made they're around the same level too

[@Rodri34451]

Like Heroes, where both Robins (especially the OG versions) are really bad nowadays without a lot of investment.

[@Mad_Ice_King]

Hey! That's me!

[@TVBTheCarpe]

The man himself! I'm curious of your thoughts on Vars's take from a professional standpoint.

[@bennetboy838]

Robin is one of those characters that are not beginner friendly, he is super resourceful so much that it might be too much, but that just my opinion, also his is quite strong when used well, although imagine doing an amazing combo but the your sword durability dies, your basically 💀

[@michaelbowman6684]

Considering that magic, bows, and weapons don't lose durability unless they actually connect in Awakening _specifically,_ that'd give credence to making all of Robin's moves only lose durability when they actually hit the target, in exchange for losing more durability per action. If that'd be too much, at the very least they could make it to where Levin Sword does not lose durability on a miss, because that's how it works in every game, not just Awakening. I don't play Robin, but these sound like fair buffs to me.

[@jetblazethunder3596]

I feel like comparing Marth and Lucina is a another really good example on how consistency is important

[@DHS222]

I have an Idea for something you could do if you run out of everybody/nobody plays. "Why (character) is under-represented" It would focus on characters like Greninja, or Falco, characters who are excellent choices, but don't have as big a representation as other top tiers

[@sharifbrown3567]

He does do that. He did it with Joker.

[@BigTheAwesome]

as a robin main I'm grateful that this video will make the robin playerbase go up by 1. thank you :D

[@jesusportillo201]

As a fan of swordies I say that if I had to keep a limited number of FE characters in the next smash game Robin woulf be one of them. He is so unique in contrast with other swordfighters but his inconsistency really limits him. Maybe some big buffs such as spells not having limited uses (because only giving that to elwind woulf be a bit unfair), not wasting uses of the levin sword if it doesn't connect an attack and definitely the should give him more movility. I still think is a fun character to play PD: for when a video for Sephiroth?

[@nihiluna]

I was really hoping to get Celica as an echo fighter with all tomes always being available, but costing HP to use as a reference to how magic works in gaiden/echoes, but sadly it was not meant to be

[@tacticianmagician4716]

@@nihiluna That would have been muchly cool!

[@l.n.3372]

Robin is unique but unless he's severely buffed in the next edition, I'd rather he doesn't return. Hero as DLC feels a bit insulting when you see how much better he was than Robin for using "spells" on the mana system vs the durability system. And for having more speed and movement WTF.

[@mordeymay3739]

@@l.n.3372 But hero plays nowhere close to how Robin does.

[@l.n.3372]

@@mordeymay3739 That's a bit of a stretch LMAO. Fire spells. Thunder spells. Both recover with a wind spell too. Sword attacks form the majority of their aerial attacks. Spells use up a resource: either durability or mana. Hero's down special vs nosferatu is the only main difference. Combined with how hero's sword doesn't break either, unlike with Robin. Hero is also faster and has better mobility, simply by being a DLC 1 pack character.

[@Quackra]

It didn't take 13 years to have it, but I can tell you realized this as you had shown Celica. Gaiden was the first FE game to do both Swords & Magic on one unit, but I won't spoil any of the classes in Genealogy or Thracia as you haven't played either yet.

[@cosmiikat-wav]

This video inspired me to start playing Robin as a secondary, and I'm proud to say I've found a lot more success with her than I had expected. Some interesting tactics I've found revolve around a *lack* of certain spells. If your opponent sees you're out of fire, they'll be much more confident to approach from the side, which allows you to catch them getting careless around the Levin Sword. One of Robin's strongest points for me is not only having an arsenal of powerful tools that I need to manage, but that I can then turn the need to manage them into a whole different set of mindgames. Robin is only as inflexible as you allow her to be and is overall a great representation of a tactical playstyle that always keeps opponents on their toes if you play your resources effectively and will always have a place on my roster.

[@TJF588]

Fascinating point! Something a lack-of-trapper.

[@cosmiikat-wav]

More so she gets in someone's head, but that's a way to put it. You also can't expect your opponent to know when your spells are recharged or running out quite as you do. Yes, there's an effect that occurs to indicate a recharge finishing, but you know exactly when that's happening after a while of playing him. If you suddenly whip out Thunder right as it recharges, you can totally catch somebody off guard as they weren't expecting how fast of a projectile it is to suddenly show up. Of course the more experienced the opponent the more likely they are to be aware of the state of your spells, so I'd be weary. But she is an absolute powerhouse of a trapper/set up character, and you'd be hard pressed to underestimate just how much pressure she can apply when given the advantage.

[@kaito2220]

Robin is a sad case for me because Hero exists and is just a better version of them We got still subpar, but better mobility, spells that are still limited but offer a wider arrange of effects including bs stock steals at 50%, and while Hero doesn't have leven sword, he does have the critical hit chance and those hits kill just as early if not earlier rip

[@Mad_Ice_King]

Hero and Robin both have different Archetypes. Robin is a trapper, while Hero doesn't really fit any role too much cause of their mechanics. If they were the same or one was better, Hero would also be able to trap just like Robin. Which is just not the case.

[@mr.j410]

I murder heros with Robin. Love it

[@mr.j410]

@@Mad_Ice_King who needs to trap when u can throw out 38 spells at any given time 🤷🏿‍♂️

[@sharifbrown3567]

@@Mad_Ice_King I Co-Main both and they really are 2 very different characters.

[@LovelyNayru]

Honestly, in Smash 4 Robin’s weapon durability mechanic sort of worked out for them as, the empty tomes hit SO hard. In Ultimate, the tomes are much weaker thrown items so finishing up your uses of a special really does feel like a complete loss. Sometimes the discarded weapons will cover a whiff which is nice, but not enough

[@s.a.k.i7768]

Yeah,Empty tomes were so Powerful in Sm4sh,I have no idea why they nerfed it so hard in Ultimate. As if being obligated to wait for 10 seconds in the beginning of the match just to have the Levin Sword, wasn't already enough as a nerf.

[@aos-archive]

Imagine how much more viable Robin is if you could pick even just ONE wearable item to never wear out.

[@TVBTheCarpe]

Robin mains unite, there are DOZENS of us!

[@sword_pro_8]

Not sure about that

[@Rye0838]

A dozen, sure

[@silentapple5923]

Maybe 2 dozen, me being one of them lol

[@yanagitennen]

I love maining Robin because I love the character on which they are based, and I love the Fire Emblem series, and I love the uniqueness and diversity that they bring. That said, a few things that definitely need to be addressed, which basically center on the fact that the hindrance of resources comes with absolutely no benefit: 1.) Arcfire is beaten by FAR too many moves. A simple neutral *even on the ground* is enough to cancel it out. For a move that is incredibly slow to execute, has ok power, shares the resource as the gentleman's jab, this is ridiculous. On the subject of the gentleman's jab, if the tome is out, Robin just stands there. Didn't even get the courtesy of a replacement move with the bronze sword. It's also supposed to knock opponents back according to Nintendo's description, but in general that's pretty laughable until the opponent is basically 120%+ (even for the lightweights) when the Levin Sword essentially *starts* with decent knockback. 2.) Everything Thunder tome attack but Thoron can be rather easily beaten. Nerfing Arcthunder's shieldbreaking capability was painful enough, but pretty much any projectile can cancel it out. Moreover, while it can do decent damage if it hits, it's casting frame rate is long and it's kill potential leaves much to be desired, making it fairly easy to punish. Thoron is such an easy read that it's often more a "wow I can't believe that KO'ed you, you should be embarrassed" move. And it uses up a ridiculous amount of durability. 3.) Elwind recovery is broken, and not in a good way. The best thing they ever did for it was make it recharge more quickly, but as the video stated, 4 seconds is a REALLY long time. Moreover, Elwind's flurry is actually a bit subpar. While the final attack has slightly above average knockback, for something that shares a key resource (recovery) and also can run out, it only does average damage. Also, I've noticed compared to other flurry attacks that it pushes opponents away more quickly than any other flurry attack, allowing them to shield. So really, it has the potential to do *less* damage with less payoff. Finally, the Elwind meteor is pretty trash. I don't even know why they bothered. It's satisfying when it hits, but the angle has to be far more precise than any other meteor in the game. 4.) Nosferatu heals for crap, damages for crap, and is probably the worst command grab in the game. 5.) As the video mentioned, Levin Sword is slightly above average as a neutral option. However, it's range and speed really isn't that great. For example, despite the electricity coming out from the sides on their down smash, even when it *looks* like it is going under their shield, it...doesn't. Additionally, I cannot TELL you the number of times I've heard the sound effects and started to see the visual effects of Levin Sword smash attacks only for the move to not go off at all/be canceled. Tbh it's just mean. And Levin Sword's meteor is also exceptionally difficult to get off. Characters like Mario, Gandandorf/the Captain, DK, and KKR have such easy ones and are such an early kill option that it makes Robin's quite sad. Possible fixes: 1.) Don't let arcfire be beaten so easily, have it do a bit more shield damage, and reduce the frame lag, cause it is LONG. Also, increase the knockback of the gentleman's jab OR give it a short stun. 2.) Arcthunder should beat most other projectiles except for a fully charged Samus or something else (e.g. Cloud's sword canceling it is just depressing). Additionally, give it back it's shieldbreak capabilities. Finally, let Elthunder travel a bit further. Thunder and Thoron are kind of ok, though Thoron should either do more damage or be a more consistent kill option. 3.) Elwind's Flurry should be the highest damage-dealing flurry in the game given that it can run out, and it should be in line with other flurries in terms of how much it pushes opponents back. Elwind's recovery should allow for single use AND double use, as well as have a more consistent meteor effect or knockback in general. 4.) In my dream world, Nosferatu has a slightly larger range, heals more, and acts as a temporary shield from around him. But honestly, I'd take even just the better heal. 5.) Levin Sword's hit boxes/frames need finetuning. The electric part is far more cosmetic than anything else, and in general should extend the range of their attacks (e.g. the end of some of Min-Min's moves). As others mentioned, durability loss should only be if it hits, and bronze sword smashes should do a bit more than it does to recharge. Bronze sword needs to have SOME redeeming factor as well--maybe as an above average job, more shield break ability, literally anything. Some of those suggestions may seem to make Robin a bit *too* strong, but remember, a significant buff is needed to justify the resource aspect (and their terrible speed, especially when some of their best combos require mobility they literally don't have). Otherwise, Nintendo might as well just remove the resource aspect of it, and they'd probably be no higher than B tier. /end rant

[@estebangonzales7187]

I never expected to see a video about Robin. I thought he was just a forgotten character. I used to main him but I don't know why I stopped. It just happened

[@zooker7938]

This series is about forgotten characters.

[@Kuramiteru]

Maybe cause winning is fun sometimes.

[@quangamershyguyyz7166]

@@zooker7938 Not really

[@VarsIII]

~SPONSOR~ Check out Factor using the code POGVARS60 for 60% off your first box! You can also use the link here: strms.net/VarsIiiFactorOctober60

[@brandoncubell7362]

Fr

[@Diamond_Aura]

Having mained Robin since Sm4sh, this does make sense in terms of weaknesses and strength. I have tried to imagine what the team might have done if they wanted to give Robin “DLC factor”, perhaps making specials further chargable with separate effects like Hero? Maybe one of the boosted specials could go through shield (just for less damage but still hitting, keeping opponents on their toes). Perhaps some silly mechanic where if he taunts “prepare yourself” and holds it down for like 2 seconds, it speeds up weapon regen for everything for the next 10 seconds or something. Heck, even just being able to act out of Elwind or control how many Elwind casts come out (like how several characters can still airdodge or aerial even after Up B), even one of these buffs would be HUGE, let alone if he got all of these or some alteration on them.

[@sharifbrown3567]

My DLC mechanic would be called "Darkness within", using Grima's influence, Robin has Kazuya's rage system starting at 100 (so slightly stronger moves) and Robin's Thunder spell automatically Thoron (no durability loss when used and Rage disappears after usage). It is a 1 hit shield breaker and does double the damage and knockback if it hits, similar to Hero's crit.

[@Diamond_Aura]

@@sharifbrown3567 tbh I dislike “get to high damage before unlocking a special mechanic” on almost any character, even if the mechanic is kinda interesting. Only for Terry do I kinda think it’s done okay. Kazuya Rage, Lucario Aura, even Sephiroth One Wing… I kinda find the way they work as comeback mechanics to be annoying. Hence why my suggestions of buffs for the character to not be limited time, but rather, things that are always in the players control even at 0

[@ajregalia1334]

Having been a Robin main for a long time I agree with pretty much all this video. Robin has a LOT of options and versatility. Levin aerials are stupid good especially Nair, Arcfire ledgetrapping I would almost argue is the safest in the game (you can literally set it up from over halfway across the stage), having a chargeable neutral B with different properties is great for applying different kinds of pressure and setup, and although not having any hitbox above their head elwind having two projectile hitboxes below (one that has a strong spike up close) that can be somewhat aimed are all excellent tools. But I wouldn't say Robin's potential reaches a 80%-140% or even 130, it's closer to a 75%-115%. Levin sword is GOOD and feels meaty when it hits, but it's not amazing enough power-wise to justify it's durability mechanic (especially since it doesn't apply to tilts). Speaking of tilts, Robin's are garbage. Too low range to alleviate pressure, not enough damage to kill, too much knockback to juggle/set-up, too slow recovery to poke safely, and they hardly even feel like disjoints because they don't dramatically shift Robin's tall hurtbox having self. As someone else mentioned Robin's projectiles are very easy for many characters to low profile (some characters can run straight through past thunder), and despite using up SO MUCH CHARGE Thoron is arguable their most useless neutral B variant (thunder has quick poke pressure, elthunder good poke and snipe, and arcthunder amazing shield pressure and trapping potential) because it doesn't have the kick a move like that should have. Robin's jab finishers, although powerful and even taking stocks at reasonable percents near the ledge, use up their tome durability plus jab 2 is inconsistent. But nearly all of that, all of it, could be much more manageable if he weren't so freaking SLOW. I see it like this, Robin is a character with a REALLY good advantage state. If you can cover most all of your opponent's options and keep them in check with traps and zoning then a match can easily snowball in their favor. But to balance that they have an absolutely ABYSSMAL disadvantage state. Large hurtbox, low mobility, the only hitboxes to prevent juggling really is their Down air or recovery (which both sends them really high up giving the opponent lots of time to punish if it whiffs as well as puts them in free fall), being without one of your primary attacking options for upwards of 10 seconds on such a low mobility character is panic inducing, and not a lot of "get off me" tools if they're being rushed down. The cracks begin to show in that Robin REALLY struggles against characters significantly smaller and faster than him. Against match-ups like Bowser, Ganondorf, and Dedede Robin can do excellent because they are too big bodied to navigate his traps. Against the braler/fighter characters like Kazuya, Ken, Terry, and Captain Falcon Robin does alright because they are around his same height and not soo fast as to be difficult to zone. (plus their lack of long range options means Robin can play decent keep away) Same thing with other swordies, the advantage of having a projectile against them really helps and somewhat manages working with Levin sword having a durability mechanic. But against basically everyone else Robin REALLY struggles to make up for their weaknesses. That durability mechanic and low mobility makes him REALLY STRUGGLE to overcome other zoners. Rush down characters (especially Pikachu and Fox) give him a super tough time with their gap closers and the fact a lot of Robin's projectile hitboxes move slow. Characters that can throw out a lot of hitboxes like Olimar, Pacman, Steve, and Duck Hunt can make it really hard to set up traps against them. Because like with zoners your trapping options get blunted out, your tomes/Levin sword run out, and you don't have the mobility to gap close. Robin is a fun character to play, and even with all their drawbacks I can't think of a character they straight up have NO answer to. But against more difficult matchups the weaknesses heavily outweigh the strengths and with a terrible disadvantage state (every Robin main has felt the frustration of being caught off stage with a half use of elwind so you only get half your recovery) it doesn't seem worth the trouble if you're looking for consistent results. If Robin had better mobility, or workable tilts to relieve pressure and juggle, or his projectiles worked just a little bit faster (and Thoron hit just a bit beefier) then I think any of or all of those things would make them a much more played character.

[@aqua_serene]

Honestly 2 things for Robin in my book. Make it so you can see a your recourse gauges at once and have your recourses regenerate over time when they're not in use but not explusively when they run out.

[@MagnetonPlayer_2]

as a robin main i would like that levin sword only lost durability when i hit my oponent and not when i miss, however i'd keep tomes loosing durability even when missing

[@Oceanfreak6]

I’m a Peach/Incineroar/Robin main and I love the technical aspects of Robins resource management, move precision, and just all around fun factor. Truly a unique and singular fighter with mage status 💙

[@meta4knight]

I have a friend who really likes robin and considers the UI display as a nerf. As a robin player he could keep track of his spells with no UI making it much harder for opponents to keep track

[@christianhanson4549]

So I'm a robin main, I haven't had a chance to go to locals at all recently because of my job and stuff, but I have a shit ton of experience with the character: to really play Robin you gotta play Robin in an entirely different way than most characters and you gotta be a hell of a lot more strategic with it than any other character in the game due to the fact that just about every goddamned move has a meter on how much you can use it.

[@N12015]

This one is interesting. When i played Smash 4 the first character i tried was Robin because mages are cool, so was the curved sword and was a starter character. My experience with him/her? It was absolutely dreadful. Being absurdly slow, the constant setup thing with spells, arcthunder taking too long to appear and his/her sword being a joke on the ground or when desgasted; not to mention i'm more of a brawler type of player, my brother is the swordfighter.

[@tacoman4312]

Grass exists

[@bennetboy838]

How about when you where able to land combos?

[@tacoman4312]

@@bennetboy838 loser

[@N12015]

@@bennetboy838 I normally was too away to land them due to being mostly being used to zone, or only a dash attack or F-Air since everything else would just whiff. His Neutral B was also bad in smash 4 as well due to being too commital. I can't believe such an unintuitive character would be available so early on.

[@DaminRSW]

i like the "it's joke" bits they're subtle but always get a little chuckle out of me

[@derpious267]

Robin main here! She is awesome! I love the Beefy airials and excellent trapping. Althunder snipes are fun, and arkfire is a great combo move

[@Zyzzkxx]

Buffs needed - Sword is used if a hit is landed - after a spell book is used, using the same command can refuel it faster

[@ados1280]

Seeing some of those old sets with Xillion made me very nostalgic. :( Good video as always.

[@brainymaestro8581]

I love those robbin mains that make use of their discarded spell books and Levin swords in their gameplay

[@dustinvance243]

I know this mechanic is on a few other units already, but I think it would make sense for Robin to have a boosting mechanic like Arsene or limit break. In the game they come from Robin actually has one. The promotion of their class Grand Master gets Ignis. A combat special that bathes them in an aura of purple flames and adds the strength stat to magic attacks or the magic stat to physical attacks. With their balanced stats, this basically doubles damage. In smash I could see them handling this in a few different ways. One way would be to Simply double damage while it's active. Or they could take the joker approach and give all of their moves a buffed version while it's active. Arc flame could turn into Bolganone, Elwind could turn into Rexcalibur Thoron could be used without charging, Nosferatu Could turn into Goetia or Aversa's night, and the sword attacks would get a damage boost. The bronze sword could be on par with the Levin sword and the Levin Sword could be even stronger.

[@sharifbrown3567]

My DLC mechanic would be called "Darkness within", using Grima's influence, Robin has Kazuya's rage system starting at 100 (so slightly stronger moves) and Robin's Thunder spell automatically Thoron (no durability loss when used and Rage disappears after usage). It is a 1 hit shield breaker and does double the damage and knockback if it hits, similar to Hero's crit.

[@Sceptilian]

I main Robin myself, and while limited tone durability sucks it isn't as bad as you might think when you're already playing the patient game. Speed, I'd say, is the biggest problem. Robin can't easily get in, and can't effectively stay in, and suffers against characters who are good at rushdown. However it's pretty close, because infinite tome durability would help a lot too. One can dream...

[@Kuramiteru]

Another VERY good video man. Kudos

[@user-yp2rs4gc9k]

Idk why but comboing archfire to nosferatu or any other aerial feels so nasty any time I do it:0

[@Flm2Jouer]

Robin can actually recharge his tomes and Levin Sword faster by for example killing the opponent. It make Robin recharge his tomes 1.5sec up to 3sec (Levin and Wind Tome 👀) and for Levin you can also make "Smash Attack" Input. It make Levin recharge 0.5sec faster per Input (That you can do in the air so you can spam aerials which make Levin recharge for roughly 6sec)

[@ionsai]

shhhhh dont let em know

[@vla1ne]

the problem is that said speed increase requires you to get a kill. while missing your tools. in effect, you have to win more while handicapped just to get back to normal.

[@bastianokamiro5421]

id love if robin could Shield + B to activate swiftsole or "boots" to boost its own speed for a short period of time, those could have their own durability or long Cd as ingame its a consumable item.

[@thesacredbeast2000]

I feel like robin needs a chrom/lucina type de-gimmicked echo fighter because robin has the only gimmick that feels like a major hindrance and pushes people away from the character.

[@unknownboi2848]

Being honest with you, Robin's moves aren't noteworthy for consistency, arcfire has slow start up and endlag, nosferatu has intangibility for a couple of frames on the same it grabs, thunder/elthunder/arcfire can be hit out by many moves that end up canceling it out, thunder's charge type can be reset by an opponent attack, frame data on all of Robin's moves save for arc thunder and down smash Levin Sword have no practical shield pressure. Movement speed wise and by how vulnerable Robin becomes from up special, the loss of some good tools for several seconds in a fight, a poor grab, the best out of shield option being jab, Robin has it rough on all accounts

[@BlankPapers]

I think just increasing the base power of everything would value the durability more. If the sake of durability is for balancing purposes, I think increasing the power of each special is what Robin needs. And honestly, getting rid of durability, while probably just the simplest answer, would ruin the identity of the character, cuz c’mon, it’s a sick reference. I wouldn’t say change levin sword’s power though. Maybe do the thing most people are saying and make its durability not drain if there’s a whiff. And increase the power of bronze sword. Maybe make him somewhat faster.

[@revalon1282]

You can slightly boost recharge speed by doing aerials, but it’s very slight so unless your spamming them you’re not gonna notice much

[@Syrius_Li]

I play Robin occasionally. I look at high level robin gameplay, literally we all play the same way

[@lilbonsly]

A major factor is that people misunderstand how Robin's tools work like, Arcfire isn't a zoning tool. It's a situational trapping move that works best when Robin already has the advantage. Catch landings or pressure the ledge with it. Robin's actual zoning tools are Thunder, Elthunder, and Levin aerials. With the ability to focus more on one or the other based on whichever your opponent is least capable of dealing with.

[@JonnyJayKhan]

maybe if they had a long range grab like samus and didn't lose durability from attacks that don't connect they'd be pretty good

[@YoMamasLlama22]

I’m so glad to see so many more robin mains lol; I feel like I’m the only one who plays them

[@grantbridge22]

Technically there was another sword mage, in FE4, the Master Knight class that Lachesis and Leif promote into. It can use both, but it doesn't really count since Master Knights can use every non-holy weapon in FE4.

[@jayfugazi9751]

as someone who has mained robin, that second delay when you land a levin sword aerial is orgasmic

[@cardboardtubeknight]

Celica from Fire Emblem 2 and Fire Emblem Shadow of Valentia is actually a sword mage too. Her unique Priestess and Princess classes are, if I recall, saber classes and when she first starts she has a golden dagger as a weapon. She's also one of the best classes in the game as she has a mix of magic and physical and she has the stats of a Lord, generally. She really should have been in the game instead of Robin as I would argue she is the bigger character now.

[@BurningSands_FGC]

I love this fighter so much! I just wish that the down b had more versatility!

[@tehquiper6796]

14:05 if that were the case, arcthunder in particular would be a real menace. Sure, it doesn't travel as fast as the other thunder variants, but its lifetime compared to the endlag that Robin receives, combined with the proposed movement, gives him more opportunities for traps. He becomes Sm4sh Robin, but without the devestating grab game, but still dependent on arcthunder for set ups, to an extent. Even without the grabs, Robin's Levin Aerials are great for continuing combos off of arcthunder, only if he could reach arcthunder before it disappears

[@ScottSmith-le8me]

i think the best way to balance the resource issue would be to allow natural reg of items after a certain amount of time not being cast, rather than waiting until they're unavailable to regenerate

[@abdi212]

That ad transition was so fucking good

[@ChinaChamp]

Honestly don’t mind most of the usual problems people have with Robin. I like managing the resources. The discarded tomes are useful (and can sometimes net you some bs lol). Her speed sucks, but she’s got one of the filthiest projectile games while also being part sword-character, so I feel like it’s a fair enough tradeoff. Sword durability also sucks, but purposefully switching between bronze and Levin sword with smash/tilt essentially gives you two sets of aerials, which potentially gives her a crazy combo game, or at the very least let’s you preserve your Levin sword for when you need it. Worst thing is Arcfire being bad. It has so much potential for Robin, but SDI pretty much ruins any application for it. It actually is a testament to how good the Thunder tomes are that she can still function as a really good projectile character even with that gimped of an option. Elwind should maybe be infinite too.

[@smithwimm1575]

If they're going to make another game, I hope they add more mechanics to Robin, like incorporating the FE skill mechanic to them. There's a ton of skills in FE:A, so I guess they can implement it like the Monado, but make it so that it represents FE's series more

[@magtac1]

Hey vars, as a robin main i think you undermined the usefulness of the dropped item. That item (especially levin) can create a lot of pressure due to it being a frame 4 out of shield option, the ability to recatch after hitting shield, as well as item drop recatch arials and what robin mains coined as “dribbling” the item to create a space. This doesn’t completely circumvent the huge detriment of a lost move for a period of time, but the item has a lot more uses than what was given credit for in the video. Overall, wonderful presentation and you got most points on the pros and cons of robin, well done

[@anniedarkheart5224]

Love that red-head Joker skin you have. It's super pretty!

[@aiden6106]

I do gotta digress. Attacking with bronze sword does increase the speed of levin sword charge. Robin's main flaw is his poor mobility.

[@jesusgabrielcarmonamedina1597]

Great series. Why no one plays Link next!

[@Alex-eu6rw]

I don't mind the newer FE reps because they actually break the norm of typical FE characters. Honestly what I really want is a character that uses a spear. I kind of wish they would have actually gone all out with link and gave him weapon swapping like BOTW where he could have his sword and shielf, a spear, and maybe a giant club. But FE is most likely where this rep will come from so hopefully they eventually step further out of their comfort zone and make more varied FE characters.

[@julienherard414]

Having a unique Fire Emblem rep that doesn't use a sword would be so cool

[@orangeslash1667]

@@julienherard414 Sadly that would balancing more difficult in Smash. How would a spear welder recover well in Smash??????? That's the downside of Smash being more platform focused than other fighters.

[@julienherard414]

@@orangeslash1667 It depends on the wielder really. If they can do it with a sword, it shouldn't be a problem with a spear.

[@orangeslash1667]

@@julienherard414 Wrong, can a person counter with a spear????? Remember Marth's Dolphin Smash is based on the jumping animations of the critical hits from Thracia 776. Has a spear wielder ever did something like that????? Sakurai almost never takes any creative liberties on RPG characters.

[@julienherard414]

@@orangeslash1667 spear wielders have done something different. Plus, there are plenty of spear animations in Fire Emblem that could be used. Sakurai could take some liberties for recovery if he can't find an immediate one. Like, maybe the spear fighter treats the spear like a helicopter or a pole vault

[@twigz3214]

One of the reasons I personally stopped playing smash as much was because it just felt like a handicap to be a Robin main. He wasn’t so bad that it was unplayable but one or the reasons I personally prefer League was because I don’t feel like I’m putting myself at a disadvantage by playing who I want to play (on a side note I’m waiting for the day when you release “why some people play Talon”. Either way thanks for the consistently interesting content :)

[@chronotrig3180]

I don’t know if this was said, but levin and tome recharge faster when Robin takes a stock. + using bronze attacks reduces the time for levin

[@damiancarr168]

As a long time Robin player that's dropped him in Ultimate only 2 main things stop me from playing him. His UpB resource and the nerfing of Elfire. In Smash4 edge guarding was incredibly hard(basically impossible) and UpB being a resource still felt bad. In SmashU where edge guarding is so much more realistic having your subpar recovery being linked to not only a reasoure but a reasoure that is **also** linked to one of your most important moves in jab is just absolutely horrendous. These two things together make me actively avoid ever using rapid jab because there is the real chance doing that rapid jab gets me killed 40 seconds later. The nerfing of Elfire from Smash 4 to SmashU is also a huge deal. In Smash 4 Elfire either won or traded alot. In SmashU crap like Mario standing Jab procs it and still doesn't hit Mario. Elfire is supposed to be a walling tool like PKFire and yet can't wall out people just mashing on you. It causes Robin to be rapidly suffocated if he so much as dares dream of using Elfire outside ledgetrapping or strong advantage. There are other reasons people may not pick him up(like that fact that even if weapon durability was gone he would still be a mediocre character) but these two reasons are the ones a previous hardcore fan of his finally dropped him.

[@matthewritt8836]

As someone from georgia i was super hype to see some Greg gameplay in this video

[@Koppu1doragon]

"It took Fire Emblem 13 years to have a sword mage!" Fire Emblem Gaiden, Fire Emblem Genealogy of the Holy War, and Fire Emblem Thracia 776

[@puddingfoxx]

Yo, Robin main here, great video really nailed home lots of their good and bad points. got to say tho after playing them for so long you really start to forget they even have durability and the dropped tomes/ sword can be really helpful at times even going so far as to purposely losing a spell for them (yeah generally nos). In my opinion the only thing holding Robin back is speed. as you said a good burst option would be great but even uping their air speed by a few values would really help the rush part of robin as well as escaping rush down. oh and of course the element of surprise is fun, the amount of people I've faced in bracket who've told me they have no idea what's going on due to the lack of robins they face is amazing

[@vla1ne]

just letting robin act out of elwind would do the trick for burst speed. many of robins best moves involve laddering the opponent, and sadly, due to his abysmal move speed, you need to be near specific platforms to make the most of it. imagine catching someone with the arcfire ladder, hopping up to chain another arcfire, elwinding to meet them up high, and finishing up with the levin sword. all of those tools are limited use, and yet robin isn't allowed to use them to the fullest because he cannot move for so long after using many of them. nosferatu is unusable offstage, elwind exists and could be an amazing burst, but sadly puts him in freefall, arcfire is a death sentence if you try it in neutral, it's so annoying to see other characters use similar, _unlimited use_ moves as often as they like and not be punished for it.

[@SineFineInanis]

This music during the sponsorship mostly made me feel like I was about to see a boss come out of a delivery box

[@snw.slayzee8369]

do you know the name of the music by any chance

[@SineFineInanis]

@@snw.slayzee8369 I recognize it but I forgot where it's from. If I had to guess, I would say from Xenoblade Chronicles 2.

[@ClintonKE]

It would help if they didn't lose their specials moves fully when they run out and instead got weaker things like Cloud has. Imagine if Joker didn't have his tether. That is what Robin deals with.

[@unicornsloth5982]

I’m feel like down special should be replaced with something that repairs tools faster, so that when you take a stock you can recharge as they respawn

[@nicbell8090]

Robin main. You hit it perfectly, all we really need is a burst speed option. The cooldown system protects everyone else. Arc thunder and thoron do lots of damage and create pressure. I’d take a levin sword that did more damage with less charges, but have base sword slightly boosted

[@HexManiac536]

I’ve spent so many hours of everyday back in smash 4 on 3 ds that i broke my stick. I also spent hours watching good robin players and try to copy their combos and such. I wish i was good enough to put to put robin on the map

[@amnesiacapothecary]

That sponsor segue was phenomenal ngl

[@gameboyn64]

Some of the worst things about robin is that you have keep track if you have an even or odd number of elwinds left. A jab combo typically only uses one charge which can get you killed when you only use half of your recovery. Another issue is that the only way to replenish your weapons other than getting a ko is to use them up. This means that when the weapon is low, your encouraged to exhaust the weapon unnecessarily just so you don't run out when you actually need the weapon. One of the stupidest decisions was to have levin sword exhausted when you spawn for the fist stock only. Just why

[@dagrimmdoctor357]

yesss I've been waiting on this

[@goodname9154]

I can’t fully explain why but your thumbnails look really cool

[@7uxedomask]

In most situations I’m very happy to just have an item in hand because it usually allows time to stall out, however I don’t think the recovery should run out and I ESPECIALLY don’t think you should be able to have half a recovery. As long as you the item you have isn’t the thunder tome robin also gains amazing kill confirms with a tome or swrod in hand (thunder -> sword kills at like 125 sometimes and item -> thoron is a confirm that can kill very early depending) people also often shield the items which leads to nos confirms and arcthunder -> item toss -> dash attack can be a guaranteed shield break. I definitely don’t think robin is a spectacular character but you’re sleeping on how much recharge time having an item in hand buys you.

[@richardlee3679]

While I do think that Robin has a lot of issues with his kit, I think it's fitting that a character of the tactician archetype needs to think carefully about when to use their resources for best effect and attempt to lure foes into bad situations. I'd also think Robin should be one of the FE characters that should stay if the roster was ever pared down. Marth, Ike, Robin and Byleth all represent different parts of the series really well while keeping each character relatively unique.

[@SpyderBey]

Corrin?!?!

[@vla1ne]

@@SpyderBey we don't talk about feet. kidding, but corrin, while definitely unique, is arguably the only FE character that's less used than robin, for the similar reasons (the move to smash ultimate nerfed them to hell)

[@OWRen5432]

​@@vla1ne If they remove Corrin i will be sad, Fates is my favorite FE(Conquest) and made me get into the series(the story sucks but the gameplay and everything else is great), i also have Corrin as a secondary(My main is quite obvious) so if they removed Corrin It would be really sad for me

[@vla1ne]

@@OWRen5432 fair enough. I use corrin too, and i love her moveset overall. personally, byleth, corrin, marth, robin, and ike (and arguably roy) are all the FE characters that have extremely unique movesets, or franchise establishing history (where marth was the OG protag, and awakening kinda saved the whole franchise)

[@OWRen5432]

@@vla1ne If i'm being honest, the only ones i'd like being removed are Lucina, Chrom and Roy because they are too similiar to the others, although Chrom/Lucina have to be with Robin to represent Awakening (Personally i'd like if in the next game they switched Robin's nosferatu to have Chrom as a switch character), Lucina while it's great that she's in the game, i don't think she stands out well unless they eventually gave her Parthia (a bow) for example. Roy it's more because while he was the Second FE character in the series, he's my least favorite lord (afther Kris) and i don't like FE6 that much so i'm kinda biased against him(also IF they removed Roy, i could keep Chrom, or if they removed Chrom i think It would be ok to keep Roy). But If i'm being truly honest: I don't want none of them removed from the game and in fact i want even more FE characters on Smash lol

[@1gengabe]

Roy is a smash character, (he technically debuted in smash before fire emblem)

[@Vantacyan]

as of recently my main! very fun character:) Levin up air gives me life

[@darklight1171]

This makes alot of sense even tho I still won't play him as I main someone else who I wonder if you would make a video on him soon aka meta knight as even tho I see him here and there there is not many metas in ultimate

[@armorbearer9702]

What if Robin's down b was changed to something similar to Clouds. Instead of Nosferatu, his new ability can be Hammerine Staff. In the Fire Emblem series, the Hammerine staff is used to repair weapons. In Smash, Robin can use the staff to rapidly restore his tomes.

[@kujibiki57]

While sword + magic users are present in Genealogy and Thracia through Master Knight and Mage Knight respectively, the actual first character to be able to use that combo was Celica, the protagonist of the second game, Gaiden, along with Alm.

[@airtempest8945]

Let's not forget the (awful) Mage Fighter class 🤣 Well, Male Mage Fighter sucks. Female is okay 'cause they can actually use Status Staves.

[@corrinfevincenohr]

As a Robin comain, Bronze aerials attacks aren’t too bad. They are still rly good tools except for smash attacks. Bronze smash attack are terrible. However, using bronze smash attack does speed up the levin sword recharge even if it doesn’t connect. I feel like durability system isn’t that much of an obstacle for her. It gives more options to Robin and new techs with item throws (Ignis). Wavebouncing rly does help Robin a lot too. Gives more mobility and aerial mixups to the character. Even if Elwin runs out, using up b does give you a little hop. And resource management is vital too