Vax & Chill: Masks Off & Schools Open? (w/Dr. Vinay Prasad)

[@tonyb980]

Finally someone speaks up! I work in the long term care industry, and I’m telling you that families are ready to bust down our doors! Nursing homes are getting 90% vaccine compliance rates among residents (effectively her immunity) and we are being told that nothing can change. Seriously, I have been super supportive of all of the massive amount of work that we have been having to do to protect these beautiful vulnerable adults, but they have also paid a huge price, and are ready to collect their dues in the form of face to face visits with families. They appreciate all of the efforts everyone has gone to to keep them safe, but are ready to bust out!!!

[@DomFortress]

look, before the invention of vaccine as intentional infection, low viral inoculation is how we achieved herd immunity. And this is how some nations gained herd immunity with both high viral infection rate, and some mild symptoms, while in an absent of vaccine. The mask wearing doesn't eliminate viral infection, but instead it causes low viral inoculation. www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2026913 However, a history of autoimmune diseases rooted in a weaken and inappropriate regulatory T-cells anti-inflammatory respond(onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/mco2.12 ), which is a common comorbidity factors such as chronic inflammation, obesity and fatty liver disease rooted in metabolic imbalance(www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3959355/ ), and high blood pressure rooted in systemic endothelial glycocalyx damages(www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2319417020301414 ), are strong indicators for a severe outcome during any viral infection, regardless of age. And historically with the majority of the adult population in the Western world were already trending to overweight or obesity at 2018(www.medpagetoday.com/primarycare/obesity/90142 ), we're not gonna be fine by ourselves just vaccinating millions. Especially when the vaccine had never been tested for antibodies in its 2 months long safety and efficacy trials(www.medpagetoday.com/primarycare/obesity/90142 ), nevermind that the manufacturers prescreened all test subjects for autoimmune diseases, and reinterpreted mild symptoms as evidence to prove that it offers some protection. And if we're good at studying the medical history of overdiagnosis(www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6135119/ ), then we could've known that within the context of psychoneuroimmunoloy, overdiagnosis can cause irrational fear(www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1299209/ ), and this can disrupt our parasympathetic nervous system that regulates our T-cells immune response(www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5050399/ ), due to overt activation of our sympathetic nervous system by our irrational fear. And if we're better at studying legal history still, then we could've known that DNA forensics scientists had been warning since 2016, about just how molecular PCR test was misused to convict the innocent to serious crimes like murder(www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/03/forensics-gone-wrong-when-dna-snares-innocent ), yet the exact same molecular PCR misuse is now the sole justification(www.cebm.net/covid-19/infectious-positive-pcr-test-result-covid-19/ ) for the dangerously autoimmune health damaging social isolation caused by just such policies as mandatory social distancing and worst, lockdown.

[@justylex]

My sister is a manager at a nursing home and she has had residents threaten to sue her for unlawful confinement.

[@monykalynf3604]

AMEN!!! I am in LTC as well!! As I have been pushing since Last year (omg the twitter mob HATE calling me a grandma killer) is we consider solitary confinement as a severe punishment for prisoners yet we VOLUNTARILY did this to our elderly WITHOUT their consent, the consent of staff or families????? No one wants to admit this was wrong to let it go as long as it did but we need to talk about it so we know how to do better.

[@DomFortress]

@@monykalynf3604 correction, not voluntarily, but lied to by government mandates, when elderly and experienced immunologist had long forewarned about the exact cruelty(kzbin.info/www/bejne/aYiXlGihibaNias ), before you even felt it's convenient now to speak up because your job is no longer at risk(kzbin.info/www/bejne/nqqnpJ1-j62mfcU ).

[@notmyrealname7863]

@@justylex lol good. They should be fighting back.

[@angiescorner9549]

I feel this is never ending and we have all been psychologically rewired and it will be hard to go back . People have been becoming so judgmental towards others . It is a nightmare !!!!!!

[@DomFortress]

look, before the invention of vaccine as intentional infection, low viral inoculation is how we achieved herd immunity. And this is how some nations gained herd immunity with both high viral infection rate, and some mild symptoms, while in an absent of vaccine. The mask wearing doesn't eliminate viral infection, but instead it causes low viral inoculation. www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2026913 However, a history of autoimmune diseases rooted in a weaken and inappropriate regulatory T-cells anti-inflammatory respond(onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/mco2.12 ), which is a common comorbidity factors such as chronic inflammation, obesity and fatty liver disease rooted in metabolic imbalance(www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3959355/ ), and high blood pressure rooted in systemic endothelial glycocalyx damages(www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2319417020301414 ), are strong indicators for a severe outcome during any viral infection, regardless of age. And historically with the majority of the adult population in the Western world were already trending to overweight or obesity at 2018(www.medpagetoday.com/primarycare/obesity/90142 ), we're not gonna be fine by ourselves just vaccinating millions. Especially when the vaccine had never been tested for antibodies in its 2 months long safety and efficacy trials(www.medpagetoday.com/primarycare/obesity/90142 ), nevermind that the manufacturers prescreened all test subjects for autoimmune diseases, and reinterpreted mild symptoms as evidence to prove that it offers some protection. And if we're good at studying the medical history of overdiagnosis(www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6135119/ ), then we could've known that within the context of psychoneuroimmunoloy, overdiagnosis can cause irrational fear(www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1299209/ ), and this can disrupt our parasympathetic nervous system that regulates our T-cells immune response(www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5050399/ ), due to overt activation of our sympathetic nervous system by our irrational fear. And if we're better at studying legal history still, then we could've known that DNA forensics scientists had been warning since 2016, about just how molecular PCR test was misused to convict the innocent to serious crimes like murder(www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/03/forensics-gone-wrong-when-dna-snares-innocent ), yet the exact same molecular PCR misuse is now the sole justification(www.cebm.net/covid-19/infectious-positive-pcr-test-result-covid-19/ ) for the dangerously autoimmune health damaging social isolation caused by just such policies as mandatory social distancing and worst, lockdown.

[@michellel5444]

Nothing makes people willing to give up common sense and liberty like fear.

[@johns8620]

If I get vaccinated.. IF.. I will NOT be wearing a mask. PERIOD

[@angiescorner9549]

@@johns8620 I think there is always a reason they say things like “ masks don’t work “ then they come out and say “ we just said that because of the shortage for first responders “ I think the your still going to have to wear a mask is along the same line it’s to make sure those who don’t fall in line won’t be able to say they got vaccinated but didn’t ,because how are they going to know unless they is a designation to show you got the vaccine in public . It’s for social reasons only . In other words control

[@angiescorner9549]

@@michellel5444 yep fear is the most persuasive tool in the tool box

[@ClaudiaRae76]

I have listened to most, if not all, of your interviews pertaining to Covid-19, and it is always such a joy. I am deeply appreciative of the perspective that you and your guests bring, how respectful you are of your listeners and of the public generally. Thank you for doing this! And Dr Prasad is wonderful, as always.

[@crystalm9518]

Thank you! It does my heart so much good to see someone vocalizing how much the lack of clear, concise non-adulterated truth is impacting public perception. The censuring of differing information only feeds the distrust. I feel like we are treated like mushrooms... keep us in the dark and feed us shit. For the love of all that is Holy, just give us the unadulterated TRUTH and let us decide for ourselves. There is nothing like mixed messages and lack of information to make us question motives.

[@LL-lj1kq]

👏👏👏👏👏👏

[@thor9563]

Houses catch fire and burn. FIRE HOSES must be employed, reactively dumping mega gallons of water onto homes, destroying many things in order to save lives, the house and most of its contents. Fire Prevention is a Lifestyle of many proactive behaviors, practices of PREVENTION in order to eliminate the hazards of fire that can quickly spread and bring destruction and death. FIRE HOSE: Vaccination. Reactive. Gets the job done, with some risk of potential damage. Behavior change not required. PREVENTION: Proactive. Proven therapies Behaviors AND policies that promote the health of the Human Biome. Good for the body, good for Humanity. BOTH have a place in our world. Peace and Love to all.

[@raymondmeyers8983]

“This is a free society” That’s becoming less and less true every day

[@toby9999]

Free to infect others with a deadly virus? To drive at high speed on city streets? I think we should all consider how our actions impact others. During a pandemic, we should wear masks, apply distancing measures, avoid crowds, practice personal hygiene etc. We should do this out of compassion for others and not require governments to enforce common sense.

[@raymondmeyers8983]

@@toby9999 chill out Karen.

[@abprepboy33]

@@toby9999 wouldnt you say it is on other people to protect themselves? For instance- do you think it makes sense for a healthy 20 yr old college student to throw away their college experience for 4 yrs. Do you think every person should act like they are at equal risk to this thing? Should everybodies 20 yr family business be shut down forever rather than the most vulnerable people take care of themselves? Going to school and learning to interact in society is a freedom I wouldnt equate with being able to recklessly drive

[@danarzechula3769]

Freedom to engage in actions that harm others? Liberty is not license. In this country we are still free to be thoughtful, kind and considerate of others.

[@danarzechula3769]

@@abprepboy33 No. In a civilized country it is a shared responsibility between individual and society. Live long enough and you will have occasion to appreciate that. If you have no concern for how your actions affect others you are no longer fit for inclusion in civilised society.

[@theblackout27]

Dr. Prasad's natural speaking voice sounds like he's on 1.5x speed by default :D

[@rustybarrel516]

Doesn’t SOUND “dangerous,” but watch out!

[@samanthanewton1340]

I know he does talk fast lol

[@abprepboy33]

I seriously think thats an indian thing. LOL he almost talks like he is trying to keep up with a rhythm

[@user-sh4sm9hw7k]

7:07 he sounds like a Aziz Ansari ftom Parks and Rec😂

[@CreamyJalapeno]

I came here to say the exact same thing! He sounds like a podcast running at 1.5 which is how my husband listens to podcasts. 😂

[@alfredcarvill8603]

The collateral damage to kids from stay at home school will be tremendous.

[@jayeye4798]

As well as all the family businesses that were forced to shut their doors. The people in power do not suffer to the same degree as the people they are making decisions for. This isn't new, but highlighted in a way that most people can finally see without thinking too hard. You really want our government calling the shots for your day to day business? Terrible idea.

[@WilliamChan]

Telling people that their lifestyle is going to be just as restricted even after being fully vaccinated is a great way to make people avoid the vaccines

[@geoffrobinson]

And to confirm that they want to control people more than anything else

[@WilliamChan]

@@geoffrobinson I think you're reaching. I would chalk it up to bad messaging and tunnel vision

[@blankname6629]

That’s why you have to emphasize that it at worst keeps you from getting a severe form of the disease but most likely you will not get it at all if you are vaccinated.

[@theblackout27]

There's good reasons for the argument on both sides. Google "Op-Ed: Now Is Not the Time to Relax COVID Restrictions " by David Aronoff on Medpagetoday for the counter op-ed to Dr. Prasad's points.

[@robby3467]

How? They're being told to wear masks anyway. The vaccine simply augments one's resistance to infection, as does washing hands. Should we stop washing our hands after vaccination?

[@heatherwalter9529]

It sounds like this book is basically saying stop thinking like a middle schooler. Not everything is about you. Do hard things. Try to see the other person’s point of view. I have been teaching middle schoolers to do this for 20 years. But what I have increasingly seen is that many parents these days have never matured past middle school thinking.

[@clrbrk9108]

I'm pretty sure we can thank religion for that.

[@LL-lj1kq]

....... blah, blah, blah I’m a teacher ! I’m a teacher !

[@alana6806]

48:50, so true, not to forget the mental health of the kids. What about those kids without siblings?

[@barbaraross2017]

I live in Nova Scotia Canada. Our Covid numbers are very low compared to the rest of Canada ( including other maritime provinces) because we closed the borders to the US and the rest of Canada, everyone wears a mask and comes with social distancing. Ergo, all our kids are in school, restaurants, cafe's, libraries etc are open. Theatres are only open for rehearsal ; not performance. Weddings/Funerals/family get-togethers restricted to 10 people. I am a 67 year old Homecare worker still waiting for my vaccinations but not worried.

[@granite110]

This is a big assumption and a part of the problem. Another explanation is that the virus was already in NS before we even knew it was a problem. Your numbers are low due to random events. Look at Vermont in the US, not an island yet their numbers are low but yet they share borders with NY and MA. Theses are two of the highest per capita. People are going back and forth regardless of any restrictions. We really need to sit down and think about these things to see if they actually work because we will run into this problem again.

[@CCB249]

@@granite110 Vermont numbers shot up in November and December compared to where they were. Look at how people live in Vermont compared to NY and MA. Very spaced apart.

[@granite110]

@@CCB249 “shot up” is relative. They went from no (+)’s to 200/million, still the lowest some of the lowest in the US. If folks in NS want to stay closed forever they can but I would be sure to know why.

[@SeeyouintheNT]

Where I live nobody wears masks, nobody socially distances and everything is open. We have had zero community cases, ever. That is 1.42 million square Km, 250,000 people, no cases. What conclusion can be drawn from that?

[@DomFortress]

look, before the invention of vaccine as intentional infection, low viral inoculation is how we achieved herd immunity. And this is how some nations gained herd immunity with both high viral infection rate, and some mild symptoms, while in an absent of vaccine. The mask wearing doesn't eliminate viral infection, but instead it causes low viral inoculation. www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2026913 However, a history of autoimmune diseases rooted in a weaken and inappropriate regulatory T-cells anti-inflammatory respond(onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/mco2.12 ), which is a common comorbidity factors such as chronic inflammation, obesity and fatty liver disease rooted in metabolic imbalance(www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3959355/ ), and high blood pressure rooted in systemic endothelial glycocalyx damages(www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2319417020301414 ), are strong indicators for a severe outcome during any viral infection, regardless of age. And historically with the majority of the adult population in the Western world were already trending to overweight or obesity at 2018(www.medpagetoday.com/primarycare/obesity/90142 ), we're not gonna be fine by ourselves just vaccinating millions. Especially when the vaccine had never been tested for antibodies in its 2 months long safety and efficacy trials(www.medpagetoday.com/primarycare/obesity/90142 ), nevermind that the manufacturers prescreened all test subjects for autoimmune diseases, and reinterpreted mild symptoms as evidence to prove that it offers some protection. And if we're good at studying the medical history of overdiagnosis(www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6135119/ ), then we could've known that within the context of psychoneuroimmunoloy, overdiagnosis can cause irrational fear(www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1299209/ ), and this can disrupt our parasympathetic nervous system that regulates our T-cells immune response(www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5050399/ ), due to overt activation of our sympathetic nervous system by our irrational fear. And if we're better at studying legal history still, then we could've known that DNA forensics scientists had been warning since 2016, about just how molecular PCR test was misused to convict the innocent to serious crimes like murder(www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/03/forensics-gone-wrong-when-dna-snares-innocent ), yet the exact same molecular PCR misuse is now the sole justification(www.cebm.net/covid-19/infectious-positive-pcr-test-result-covid-19/ ) for the dangerously autoimmune health damaging social isolation caused by just such policies as mandatory social distancing and worst, lockdown.

[@cherylweber8406]

Thank you Z, for this conversation... retired RN after 42 years because of Covid, my husband convinced me to retire. After social distancing, staying at home, and masking, good hand washing etc, found out, I enjoy being a recluse in my 'monastery.' I like Zoom, saves time, money, transportation...thank goodness for Zoom! I am used to wearing a mask, saves a lot of time for me, post menopausal woman, I don't pluck my chin hair as often🤩 Then my husband brought the Covid home, and we tested +, 12/24/20, mild case, luckily, for our ages. Not afraid anymore, and on the list to donate convalescent plasma. So I guess God ain't finished with us yet❣️

[@rustybarrel516]

Always appreciate the perspective you both provide. I agree that people are going to make their own decisions and that they should be provided the best and most reliable information available in the most honest and transparent way. If that had been done from the start, we may have had far fewer politically charged debates about masks, school attendance, and other relevant issues.

[@DomFortress]

look, before the invention of vaccine as intentional infection, low viral inoculation is how we achieved herd immunity. And this is how some nations gained herd immunity with both high viral infection rate, and some mild symptoms, while in an absent of vaccine. The mask wearing doesn't eliminate viral infection, but instead it causes low viral inoculation. www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2026913 However, a history of autoimmune diseases rooted in a weaken and inappropriate regulatory T-cells anti-inflammatory respond(onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/mco2.12 ), which is a common comorbidity factors such as chronic inflammation, obesity and fatty liver disease rooted in metabolic imbalance(www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3959355/ ), and high blood pressure rooted in systemic endothelial glycocalyx damages(www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2319417020301414 ), are strong indicators for a severe outcome during any viral infection, regardless of age. And historically with the majority of the adult population in the Western world were already trending to overweight or obesity at 2018(www.medpagetoday.com/primarycare/obesity/90142 ), we're not gonna be fine by ourselves just vaccinating millions. Especially when the vaccine had never been tested for antibodies in its 2 months long safety and efficacy trials(www.medpagetoday.com/primarycare/obesity/90142 ), nevermind that the manufacturers prescreened all test subjects for autoimmune diseases, and reinterpreted mild symptoms as evidence to prove that it offers some protection. And if we're good at studying the medical history of overdiagnosis(www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6135119/ ), then we could've known that within the context of psychoneuroimmunoloy, overdiagnosis can cause irrational fear(www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1299209/ ), and this can disrupt our parasympathetic nervous system that regulates our T-cells immune response(www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5050399/ ), due to overt activation of our sympathetic nervous system by our irrational fear. And if we're better at studying legal history still, then we could've known that DNA forensics scientists had been warning since 2016, about just how molecular PCR test was misused to convict the innocent to serious crimes like murder(www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/03/forensics-gone-wrong-when-dna-snares-innocent ), yet the exact same molecular PCR misuse is now the sole justification(www.cebm.net/covid-19/infectious-positive-pcr-test-result-covid-19/ ) for the dangerously autoimmune health damaging social isolation caused by just such policies as mandatory social distancing and worst, lockdown.

[@NinthReign]

Love the interactions between Z-Dogg and Vinay Prasad - he should definitely be a regular guest on the show. Great to see a sober (but entertaining!) discussion between two physicians about this

[@joetoe9207]

Can we please acknowledge that the Great Barrington plus Ioannidis, Heneghan, Jefferson et al. have been horribly treated and wrongly dismissed (worse, censored)?

[@joetoe9207]

@Kanu Amin Hi, and thanks for your note. I'm right with you. Funny, (in a bit of a pathetic way that it needed to be said), Heneghan and Jefferson wrote a piece in the Spectator about the 10 greatest COVID-19 managment errors and your comment is #10 - to acknowedge an error reflects humility and strength. To defend one...that's not strength (for me, anyway).ahrp.org/ten-worst-covid-decision-making-failures-the-dire-consequences/ Appreciate your reply.

[@gerrydraper2750]

Thanks for showing us how to have civil discussions! I am now reading "the Coddling of the American Mind." This helps me understand so much of what is happening in our culture today. Everyone should read this!

[@raymondmeyers8983]

I’ve received both shots. I still wear a mask in public not because I think it protects anyone but because I don’t want to have to explain myself to everyone while I’m out.

[@tonyb980]

Which kind of ticks me off. We all push for everyone to follow the science and then we continue to wear masks when not needed. As medical professionals we should be able to be honest now and let everyone know we have been vaccinated, so the risk is low. I appreciated this discussion.

[@raymondmeyers8983]

@@tonyb980 I just wear it because it doesn’t bother me and I just want to respect the policies of the businesses I visit. We’re still in an active pandemic and most of the public still has not been vaccinated. It’s more out of politeness than “science”. With that said, when the pandemic is over and anyone bitches at me about wearing a mask, I’ll politely tell them to fuck off.

[@s7d788]

@@raymondmeyers8983 As a more introverted person, yeah I’d take the mask over explaining myself everywhere I go. I don’t think it’s wrong, people are different that way. Some people find the mask extremely uncomfortable while I honestly kinda like wearing it because it helps with allergies.

[@cynthiam1381]

Really stop wearing the damned mask ,its a control prop !

[@mariahpatrick2681]

Yes because you can say “well I’m vaccinated” but then the problem is how much do they know about the vaccine and it’s effectiveness? Where I live, the odds are that they don’t know anything or they are against it so they won’t care anyway. So you can either just wear the mask for a short time or spend hours in public trying to explain yourself to everyone.

[@cindybogart6062]

This was the best interview ever. I love you both together. The way you feed off each other is great!! Thanks for this you two!!!

[@loganspriggs9828]

Duuuuude if I still had Facebook (or any social media for that matter lol)I’d be sharing the heck out of this video!! I’m in nursing school so I’ll just email it to my teachers lol. For real tho the 60min bit is one of the reasons I got rid of social media so tired of people showing up to tell me I don’t know what I’m talking about. Gna be ripples for generations because of this ridiculous sacrifice a million for the idea of saving 1.

[@sueshe5953]

I hope someday you're the one.

[@actionsub]

One thing I've come to like about ZDogg's posts is that he posts a link to a transcript for those ADD types like me who can read a lot faster than they can listen... Click on "Show More" in the video descriptions for the link. I recommend it highly.

[@stephanieturner4660]

I thought one of the biggest concerns with children going back to school is transmission to adult, parents, grandparents, etc. I wish this was discussed. I would like to hear if there are studies surrounding schools and transmission to adults who can get severely sick. Great information! Informative and entertaining. Thank you

[@peterjames424]

If you were paying attention he did give figures for the tiny numbers of children ill with Sars-Cov-2 and that teachers are no worse affected than any other profession.

[@TeamKrasno]

These guys aren’t discussing what immune compromised parents and grandparents living with school age kids are supposed to do. Where are those stats being discussed on his podcasts? Where are the discussions about the trauma brought on children who lose a parent due to Covid brought home by them?

[@peterjames424]

@@TeamKrasno It doesn't seem reasonable to imprison children who might live in such a household. There is no black and white answer. What if (and it does happen) a child brings back flu or another bad virus? And likewise we cannot imprison a whole healthy population to avoid any possibility of death - although government is having a good go. It's called life and we have to live it and not hide away on all the what ifs. It's up to individuals to assess a risk

[@Ren-tn6xz]

@@TeamKrasno many of those families have chosen to do pure online school if there is an immune compromised adult in the home.

[@tinamickiewicz2779]

Love you guys! I always walk away saying “See you’re not crazy, this is how reasonable people think and discuss” Thanks!

[@nicolelakra]

I have come to understand that here, in a suburb of Denver, kids are not in schools because of teacher union demands. I had to pull my kids out and homeschool them using my own purchased curriculum. We are fortunate because we had the resources to do this. Now, I know two of my four kids will easily be a year ahead. What about the single mom? Her kids matter just as much as mine. But that mom is to busy trying to put food on the table, pay rent and keep the water and lights on. If you care about poverty, schools must stay in-person for remote learning.

[@elainemcdaniel3954]

Especially being stuck at home seems to increase the opportunity to have a Coddled mind. Too much time to listen to and focus on all the craziness.

[@DomFortress]

look, before the invention of vaccine as intentional infection, low viral inoculation is how we achieved herd immunity. And this is how some nations gained herd immunity with both high viral infection rate, and some mild symptoms, while in an absent of vaccine. The mask wearing doesn't eliminate viral infection, but instead it causes low viral inoculation. www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2026913 However, a history of autoimmune diseases rooted in a weaken and inappropriate regulatory T-cells anti-inflammatory respond(onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/mco2.12 ), which is a common comorbidity factors such as chronic inflammation, obesity and fatty liver disease rooted in metabolic imbalance(www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3959355/ ), and high blood pressure rooted in systemic endothelial glycocalyx damages(www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2319417020301414 ), are strong indicators for a severe outcome during any viral infection, regardless of age. And historically with the majority of the adult population in the Western world were already trending to overweight or obesity at 2018(www.medpagetoday.com/primarycare/obesity/90142 ), we're not gonna be fine by ourselves just vaccinating millions. Especially when the vaccine had never been tested for antibodies in its 2 months long safety and efficacy trials(www.medpagetoday.com/primarycare/obesity/90142 ), nevermind that the manufacturers prescreened all test subjects for autoimmune diseases, and reinterpreted mild symptoms as evidence to prove that it offers some protection. And if we're good at studying the medical history of overdiagnosis(www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6135119/ ), then we could've known that within the context of psychoneuroimmunoloy, overdiagnosis can cause irrational fear(www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1299209/ ), and this can disrupt our parasympathetic nervous system that regulates our T-cells immune response(www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5050399/ ), due to overt activation of our sympathetic nervous system by our irrational fear. And if we're better at studying legal history still, then we could've known that DNA forensics scientists had been warning since 2016, about just how molecular PCR test was misused to convict the innocent to serious crimes like murder(www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/03/forensics-gone-wrong-when-dna-snares-innocent ), yet the exact same molecular PCR misuse is now the sole justification(www.cebm.net/covid-19/infectious-positive-pcr-test-result-covid-19/ ) for the dangerously autoimmune health damaging social isolation caused by just such policies as mandatory social distancing and worst, lockdown.

[@phoenix7924]

Awesome interview/discussion. Huge kudos to both of you.

[@drewrice4500]

Your channel is a breath of fresh air academically and reasonably, both you and your eloquent guests. This really ought be broadcasted on all network channels to bring reason to the conversation.

[@robertamorrison3462]

Great conversation! I wish we could manage to get this in front of everyone. Thanks, guys!

[@LilCraftyNook]

Share on FB!! I have with a lot of Z’s stuff!!

[@scottcarter828]

I wish people would take the time to listen to them, too. :(

[@ShimmyMD]

So happy you have him on again. Love Vinays perspective

[@aaronhollis1498]

I am a conservative, but i believe we need to be listening to Dr. Prasad. We don't have to shut out the "other side". We need commentary and civil debate! Thank you Zdoog and Dr. Vinay!

[@TheKdubb17]

I have so many words/thoughts but all I can get out is-THIS WAS SO GOOD. My mind was blown, so many excellent/informative thoughts and perspectives, thank you to you both!

[@bryanwillis2190]

This was so excellent!! I wish everyone could hear this conversation. Powerful. I tried to share this to some of my more liberal friends and they wont even open it up. If people would only listen to this we might just save everyone from hating each other.

[@annmariethomas9968]

The schools are closed largely due to the teacher’s unions.

[@alana6806]

DrZ we need more talks like this one! So much appreciated! You pinpointed to the core of the issue and the domino effect that not only the US live but many many countries do. We will have to handle a new kind of generation with a completely different mental precondition

[@randeepchauhan2668]

I love when ZDogg mentions how Dr. Prasad is smarter than him and just tacitly agrees 😂. Great conversation!

[@blankname6629]

To be fair he says that about every guest haha unless he had me on he would make an exception for me haha

[@randeepchauhan2668]

I'm watching at normal speed but Dr. Prasad is 1.25x atleast

[@laurawagner4839]

Thanks so much for educating us! Covid RN, both vaccines in!

[@JC-be5cc]

Covid Rn both vaccines in too, 2 more days to 14 😄😄😄👊🙌

[@beckyanders1734]

Your conversations are both fun to listen to and so informative. I appreciate your humble and thoughtful approach to these topics!!!

[@ginathomas3102]

As a conservative, I thank you for both your fairness and recognizing that we need to be able to rationally talk so that for the greater good we care for our fellow Americans. It's a joy listening to you. Have joined Locals.com and deleted all the other SMs.

[@sk1nsk1]

Hi Dr. Z, i live in Belgium, Bruxelles , were the school's are open, for me the problem with school's is not the kids, is the parents and grandparents that have to pick them up. You see them in front of the school's talking, not respecting social distanciation, mask just covering the mouth, taking unnecessary risks to the point that became mandatory to have police or security guards in front of the school's to make them respecte the rules. So i consider that the big problem with the schools is the parents. Keep up with the good work and be safe.

[@101taiga]

Moderna vax x 2 in the left arm. So GRATEFUL! Acute care RN, now feeling less stress going into work. Will continue with masking and distancing until things settle down. But I’m in Arizona, and my employment outlook is good, because people here are resistant to masking, and still gathering in restaurants, casinos, etc.

[@drumnotatsujin]

As much as I admire their expertise in this topic, I'm surprised that these two doctors still believe that this lockdown measures is about preventing covid infections.

[@abprepboy33]

there is definitely a power element to it. None of the data is suggesting that the masks are making a huge difference as oppose to places like florida and texas where almost nobody is wearing masks. The fact that the vaccines arent even viewed as a path pack to normality kind of shows some governments are really feeling this power

[@TropicalStormDebi]

@@abprepboy33 I don't know about Texas, but in Florida we do where masks, at least in the major population areas. There isn't a state mandate, but the major population centers have a mandate. In Hillsborough County (Tampa) they've been mandated since May, I think. Jacksonville was the last major population center to do it if I remember correctly. This is one of the things that people haven't understood about Florida.

[@abprepboy33]

@@TropicalStormDebi I heard in florida that gyms are open and you dont have to wear masks in the gyms.... here in the bay area where I live (and dr z) zero gyms are open and no dine in resturaunts. LOL- the county also kicked the 49ers out for over a month (LOL- and they literally test every single day)

[@abprepboy33]

@@TropicalStormDebi also- I think its kind of stupid to make people who dont have it wear masks. If someone tests positive- then have them wear a mask..... but if people dont have it, its ridiculous. Its like requiring seatbelts to be worn when the car isnt turned on.

[@TropicalStormDebi]

@@abprepboy33 It would depend on the gym. Some of them actually do require it. Another thing I would point out is that Miami-Dade has the vast majority of the cases through this pandemic and they are the most densely populated area in the state. The rest of the state is not nearly as densely populated as say LA County or the bay area. Additionally, it is typically warm here so it's easier to be outside (however we are getting a true winter this year, people are staying in and the cases are increasing as well). All of these things contribute to Florida's case rate. Florida is a large geographically and it unfortunately gets treated all the same as "Florida" in the news.

[@angelam1029]

"once you're armed with the facts" key phrase. Thank you guys keep up the work

[@kylefrandsen2665]

I have both doses of Pfizer. I'm waiting for my folks (75+) to get their first dose, hopefully in the next 2 weeks, and then planning on seeing them a few weeks after that. Since a lot of my friends also work in healthcare, they're getting their 2nd doses or have gotten them recently. We were already planning some small, open-air gatherings even though we're in L.A. County. I live in a 98%+ Hispanic, working-class area with a case rate even higher than the county rate. Knowing how often my kids have brought home various illnesses and they ALWAYS give it to me, my biggest concern is for the teachers and the families of the kids. L.A. has a very good food program for school kids, so food is less of a concern. My 6th grade daughter is suffering from the isolation, so I do see the emotional toll daily (my son is on the spectrum and wasn't very social to begin with). You quote some numbers from other areas but I know many multi-generational families living in trailers, small apartments and so on. I would love to see some information regarding the differences in the working/living conditions of the areas you mentioned. You're now looking retrospectively at the numbers and saying it was a mistake to close schools. There were so many unknowns about this virus in the beginning (and the long-term effects are still unknown), I still think it was justified at the time. At this point, I haven't heard/seen enough data on transmission by kids in an area like mine to make an evidence-based evaluation. We aren't swabbing everyone. We don't know how many kids are asymptomatic carriers transmitting it to their households. Once the teachers are vaccinated, I would be willing to send my kids since I'm also vaccinated, but I wouldn't presume to make that decision for others who have unvaccinated household members.

[@buckcampbell4292]

Here in GA schools have been open since Sept.

[@kylefrandsen2665]

@@buckcampbell4292 What works in one area doesn't work in another. That's why I was asking about differences in living/working conditions. The entire state of Georgia had 169 COVID deaths yesterday. There were 256 just in L.A. County yesterday. We've also detected the variant discovered in the UK in L.A. that's about 55% more transmissible. Keeping the schools open in most of Georgia may be the right decision except maybe in denser areas like Atlanta.

[@DomFortress]

look, before the invention of vaccine as intentional infection, low viral inoculation is how we achieved herd immunity. And this is how some nations gained herd immunity with both high viral infection rate, and some mild symptoms, while in an absent of vaccine. The mask wearing doesn't eliminate viral infection, but instead it causes low viral inoculation. www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2026913 However, a history of autoimmune diseases rooted in a weaken and inappropriate regulatory T-cells anti-inflammatory respond(onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/mco2.12 ), which is a common comorbidity factors such as chronic inflammation, obesity and fatty liver disease rooted in metabolic imbalance(www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3959355/ ), and high blood pressure rooted in systemic endothelial glycocalyx damages(www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2319417020301414 ), are strong indicators for a severe outcome during any viral infection, regardless of age. And historically with the majority of the adult population in the Western world were already trending to overweight or obesity at 2018(www.medpagetoday.com/primarycare/obesity/90142 ), we're not gonna be fine by ourselves just vaccinating millions. Especially when the vaccine had never been tested for antibodies in its 2 months long safety and efficacy trials(www.medpagetoday.com/primarycare/obesity/90142 ), nevermind that the manufacturers prescreened all test subjects for autoimmune diseases, and reinterpreted mild symptoms as evidence to prove that it offers some protection. And if we're good at studying the medical history of overdiagnosis(www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6135119/ ), then we could've known that within the context of psychoneuroimmunoloy, overdiagnosis can cause irrational fear(www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1299209/ ), and this can disrupt our parasympathetic nervous system that regulates our T-cells immune response(www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5050399/ ), due to overt activation of our sympathetic nervous system by our irrational fear. And if we're better at studying legal history still, then we could've known that DNA forensics scientists had been warning since 2016, about just how molecular PCR test was misused to convict the innocent to serious crimes like murder(www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/03/forensics-gone-wrong-when-dna-snares-innocent ), yet the exact same molecular PCR misuse is now the sole justification(www.cebm.net/covid-19/infectious-positive-pcr-test-result-covid-19/ ) for the dangerously autoimmune health damaging social isolation caused by just such policies as mandatory social distancing and worst, lockdown.

[@ancap1065]

looks like your hero fauchi was caught lying you call it "miscalculation". just cause fauchi is now a politician doesnt mean he wont push an agenda. always be skeptical of authority and power.

[@blankname6629]

When you spelled his name wrong i stopped reading what you said. what are the odds that you comprehended an article properly when his name is probably mentioned more than any other word and you got that part wrong?

[@s7d788]

Skepticism is a process. Do you think they both take authorities words at face value? I didn’t, I don’t but that doesn’t mean I think what they say are all lies and actually the opposite is true. I mean... profile picture checks out lol.

[@johns8620]

Dr Fakey

[@beeburner5685]

If this virus is natural and a person survives it. after they get infected shouldnt the human body be able to recalibrate itself to be prepared for it over and over again.

[@Bndsmom5-2]

Thank you for this ! I have been in healthcare now for forty years. I think I’ve developed immunity to about everything out there with the exception of BS. Your logical approach to this issue, and willingness to be open as science reveals more about what we didn’t know at the beginning is refreshing. Let common sense rule!

[@adrienef3102]

Hi! I tested positive for antibodies in December, had 1st dose vaccine last Thursday, 2nd dose will be Feb 2. I work in a hospital/X-ray with hands on Covid positive patient care. I haven't seen family since Nov 2019. I miss my family and am determined to see them plus meet my first grand baby due in July. I still have concerns and will take precautions.

[@evgeniynagornyak1150]

Vaxs are doesn't protect you from catching virus again. Live your life. Stop all nonsense. Missed family, can't see them Be happy 😊

[@primordialmeow7249]

Excellent Drs. Getting #1 Moderna on Jan 26th. My concession is to wear my red lipstick again.

[@mitchelboatright9749]

My favorite liberal!! From a conservative. You guys are amazing and make sense in a world turned upside down.

[@LilCraftyNook]

Yes!! The mixed messaging! What Dr. P said was gold!! They ARE trying to get us to do something (control) !! We need to do what we think is best for us!!

[@mnikonowicz]

Unfortunately this administration may change that. It starts with censorship...

[@monykalynf3604]

Can you & Dr P PLEASE do a joint podcast at least once every months!!

[@podcastaltafidelidad]

Thanks so much. It's always so refreshing to listen to Dr Prasad! I have to read the 3 articles he pointed out! What you guys mention about closing schools despite all the evidence is just crazy!!! And yes! Were are this sad stories no one is talking about. Its so so so sad the stories that we will hear. And all the things we are going to regret.

[@robyndavis3043]

I’m waiting for the new Johnson & Johnson vaccine to come out (1-dosage only, plus doesn’t need to be chilled)

[@RedAngelSophia]

In determining what concession to take after vaccination, I beseech y’all to remember that the typical person you come across on the street can’t tell someone who is well-vaccinated apart from an anti-masker - and for that reason, if you are not wearing a mask and they haven’t had their chance to be vaccinated yet, they’ll have to dodge to stay clear of you just the same. And for certain people (such as people like myself who have autism) that can make a simple walk very traumatic. I beseech you all to consider that before you decide that, of all things, shedding the mask is to be your concession after vaccination. Please choose something else as your concession.

[@msi8311]

For those who believe, no explanation is necessary. For those who do not believe, no explanation is possible. Franz Werfel

[@danarzechula3769]

Yeah. It's better to base your actions during a deadly pandemic on knowledge not belief. And there is still a great deal that is unknown. To blindly trust a vaccine hastily developed under pressure and with huge profit motive seems very idealistic and even unwise. I'm hoping for the best but let's temper our hope with some realism. We know next to nothing about how this vaccine will affect us long term or whether the protection is long term. Smacks of desperation and impatience.

[@joydodd1562]

@@danarzechula3769 not to mention that this isn't actually a vaccine to begin with .... It's a medical device and it's highly experimental.

[@auranacuran]

So what do we do with cancer neutropenic precaution during covid.

[@anniemunn8672]

This was really good guys👍 You also did a great job of talking about how we need to have reasonable discussion about all issues that effect our lives. I am retired now, but as a Biologist I appreciate just common sense information and allowing disagreement👍

[@rkgs2782]

Hey Doc, love your content! Btw thanks for the shout out last year EMS week! Can you do a podcast on Ivermectin? Unless you have and I missed it. Stay well!

[@jsverner]

Politically, I am a non-extreme conservative. I have recovered from the virus and plan to continue to donate convalescent plasma as long as I am able. For clarification, I do not plan on getting the vaccine. My wife is a public school teacher and has been on campus since September and we have survived - open the schools. Please accept my sincere gratitude for the approach both of you convey towards those that do not agree with your every thought. Thank you for the opportunity to learn from others, with other opinions - without the need to shame those that interpret things differently!

[@jrm-flva3970]

Hi Dr. ZDogg. A question to you regarding Herd Immunity. Are we already at the herd immunity threshold via natural infection derived immunity? I listened to several of Dr. Offit's presentations and finally looked up the "Plotkin Formula”. This is what I calculated: - The imperfect immunity equation: Vc = (1 - 1/Ro)/E. - Terms: Vc = Critical vaccination level Ro = Basic reproduction number E = Vaccine effectiveness against transmission - Factors: 2021-01-22 Ro = 1.2 E = .90. - Result: Vc = (1 - 1/1.2)/.90. Vc = .19 or approx. 20% 330M US Population * 20% Plotkin Factor = Approx. 66M people needed to reach Vc (Critical vaccination level). Estimates are that 70M to 75M US people have already been infected so are we passing the Vc threshold? Respectfully Joe in VA 2021-01-22

[@wrongipaddress]

Best talk with Vinay! Especially after the 30 minute mark.

[@n3roc]

VDoggMD is the second best!

[@olivialancaster3880]

Impatiently waiting for our second Moderna vaccine. Thank God a local pharmacy is doing dental offices. We signed up our staff the first day we were permitted. I can’t believe people are fighting this vaccine!

[@blankname6629]

You should also thank your state. My state only did hospital workers, nursing home staff, and patients in the first wave. So I am fully vaccinated but my wife who does not work in those settings has not been.

[@Nvwheeler]

I'm hopeful there will be less resistance going forward. We need to get the data Dr. Prasad mentioned at the start of the video out in the msm. That along with the good safety data, now that the vaccine is in millions of arms

[@DomFortress]

look, before the invention of vaccine as intentional infection, low viral inoculation is how we achieved herd immunity. And this is how some nations gained herd immunity with both high viral infection rate, and some mild symptoms, while in an absent of vaccine. The mask wearing doesn't eliminate viral infection, but instead it causes low viral inoculation. www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2026913 However, a history of autoimmune diseases rooted in a weaken and inappropriate regulatory T-cells anti-inflammatory respond(onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/mco2.12 ), which is a common comorbidity factors such as chronic inflammation, obesity and fatty liver disease rooted in metabolic imbalance(www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3959355/ ), and high blood pressure rooted in systemic endothelial glycocalyx damages(www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2319417020301414 ), are strong indicators for a severe outcome during any viral infection, regardless of age. And historically with the majority of the adult population in the Western world were already trending to overweight or obesity at 2018(www.medpagetoday.com/primarycare/obesity/90142 ), we're not gonna be fine by ourselves just vaccinating millions. Especially when the vaccine had never been tested for antibodies in its 2 months long safety and efficacy trials(www.medpagetoday.com/primarycare/obesity/90142 ), nevermind that the manufacturers prescreened all test subjects for autoimmune diseases, and reinterpreted mild symptoms as evidence to prove that it offers some protection. And if we're good at studying the medical history of overdiagnosis(www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6135119/ ), then we could've known that within the context of psychoneuroimmunoloy, overdiagnosis can cause irrational fear(www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1299209/ ), and this can disrupt our parasympathetic nervous system that regulates our T-cells immune response(www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5050399/ ), due to overt activation of our sympathetic nervous system by our irrational fear. And if we're better at studying legal history still, then we could've known that DNA forensics scientists had been warning since 2016, about just how molecular PCR test was misused to convict the innocent to serious crimes like murder(www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/03/forensics-gone-wrong-when-dna-snares-innocent ), yet the exact same molecular PCR misuse is now the sole justification(www.cebm.net/covid-19/infectious-positive-pcr-test-result-covid-19/ ) for the dangerously autoimmune health damaging social isolation caused by just such policies as mandatory social distancing and worst, lockdown.

[@lostnationquailfarm6335]

Love this! First met ZDogg in Orlando at a QI Conference. So glad I found you. Every interview is my favorite. THANK YOU 💜

[@tammyschilling5362]

Why do you "love" a guy who lies to manipulate behavior? Bad messaging is trying to say A, but saying something else instead. This isn't bad communication, it's lying to manipulate people about their health choices!

[@jc_illustrates_]

Lies about?

[@tammyschilling5362]

@@jc_illustrates_ masks and vaccination rates needed to reach herd immunity.

[@vankerah]

All I can hear is Aziz Ansari talking about medicine 😂😂

[@danamania150]

Dr. Prasad, you're the bomb!! Thank you for sharing your common sense and perspective on this craziness

[@marilinpuig8562]

I am here in North Texas.... our schools are open with masks and extra precautions for all who chose the in person. The kids play soccer and if a child tests positive, all get tested and that team's games get cancelled. I think it has been successful so far.

[@erikalucero6701]

Love it. Later listened to Ezra Klein's podcast interview with Surgeon General Vivek Murthy. (Such a thoughtful voice--I'm a fan) When this question about how life can change after vaccinated, his answer was something like 'now you can feel less anxious to put a mask on and go to the grocery store'. pretty tepid.

[@alfredcarvill8603]

You two have addressed so many important issues that have been accelerated by this pandemic. The wealth gap between rich and poor is growing daily.

[@rebeccadieter4840]

This is great information. Everyone should listen to this.

[@GertvandenBerg]

In places with mandatory masks, allowing the vaccinated to go without masks adds a layer of complexity to enforcement...

[@Stecra]

Great interview, this guy is awesome! Now for balance you should get David Aronoff, MD who wrote the counterpoint to his article on as well.

[@rashasarandah1695]

I wish I could hug my older parents but they live overseas and can’t travel to the US yet due to fear of Covid though they have gotten their first Pfizer dose. I’m worried I won’t see them in person again because this seems never ending. Losing hope 😭

[@debrasaphire4388]

All these health care providers are willing to step up and educate us to seeing the other side of the messages being delivered in the media

[@erins7902]

Thank you so very much Dr. Prasad!!

[@alana6806]

One of my favourite duos discussing important issues with full rational

[@aajohnsoutube]

Why aren’t we separating COVID survivors differently than the at-risk general public? Admit their risk is minimal, give them a ‘green card” and put them behind the others in need of vaccine. And/or accounting for them from the %-vaxed estimates needed for herd immunity.

[@blankname6629]

There risk is not minimal.

[@HeatherBHG]

@@blankname6629 how would you figure? It's the same immune response that is being created by a vaccine.

[@aajohnsoutube]

@@blankname6629 risk is exceedingly low. So far no study shows we can’t rule out 2ry infections. But looking at it from another angle, there is nothing to suggest any significant risk of getting sick vis SARS-Cov2 a second time. Don’t forget that disease we are talking about, COVID-19, is defined by a test, not by an illness cause by the virus...

[@christiansalazar5795]

I might not agree with everything they believe or say..... But i Love the transparency and raw realness. We need more Doctors like you guys. Thank You for the info and data

[@OtamatoneTony]

Can you get more people to watch this, please?

[@walterbortz5497]

Smart insightful people can make the most complex issues simple. Very thankful for this discussion.

[@denisekiefer3057]

Bravo! What an awesome conversation/discussion you two had.

[@CecilBrian]

Isn’t the best vaccination against COVID a full recovery from it? Meaning, those who have tested positive, had symptoms, have recovered, are more immune than those who have had two shots? And if so, considering the supply and demand issues in play, why are people who fall into the recovered category being vaccinated at this point in time? Case in point, a friend of mine is a nurse who was recently vaccinated even though she already recovered from symptomatic COVID. Does that make any sense?

[@toniasewell8385]

I want a good answer to this question. Everyone skirts around it by saying the vaccine is safe for those who have had Covid. That’s not an answer to my question.

[@onetwothreeabc]

According to the measurement of amount of antibody generated, mRNA vaccine can induce more antibody generation than natural infection, and is believed to have a better protection than natural infection.

[@toniasewell8385]

@@onetwothreeabc higher immunity than what? 99.4 - 99.9% is achieved through natural infection. Why would a person want to take a vaccine with those kind of odds, especially when the risk of becoming severely ill with a second natural infection is basically zero.

[@onetwothreeabc]

@@toniasewell8385 Where did you get this number of 99.4-99.9%? Do you have a source article? I would like to read it. I do not advocate recovered covid patient to get a vaccine, if their symptom was mild. I am just answering why the immunity generated by vaccine could be better than immunity generated by natural infection. Note that not all vaccine is better than natural infection - only mRNA vaccines are.

[@toniasewell8385]

@@onetwothreeabc I will link the two studies. I listen to Dr John Campbell daily and he reported on both of these studies.

[@CamilleStickel]

This interview is a beautiful thing!

[@lindlylu72]

Someone mentioned an interesting point: Would our spikes have been lower if we'd keep out restaurants closed and opened schools?

[@williamreymond2669]

2:46 ZDoggMD] "It's not zero, but you cannot make zero risk." [2:53 Vinay] "There is no zero risk..." Actually, it is much worse than that. You should have a systems engineer on your program once in a while. What that systems engineer will tell you is that if you try to drive one risk to zero, *likely* you will cause a different risk to increase unintentionally, and you *may* even have a new risk *emerge* from the background that had not previously existed. That is just what happens in complex systems. Systems engineers have a whole theory about this. You should find one and interview him. I bet they have one at Stanford.

[@rustybarrel516]

I hope that one of the silver linings of the pandemic is a broader realization of the limits of scientific understanding and the inherent uncertainty involved in any scientific pursuits. The kinds of fallacies in thinking you point out have been exposed by the pandemic are common in every field of study. This includes the ongoing consideration of the potential extent and impact of anthropogenic global warming. People who are either unaware of uncertainty or disingenuous about it take a little understanding and stretch it to and past its breaking point to make pronouncements with great certitude about what will happen, when it will happen, and what must be done to avert it. I have a feeling that such pronouncements are going to be viewed differently now.

[@shackyman3644]

Agreed. Science is messy and more about what we've got wrong.

[@evooke7070]

You need to get Dr. Ioannidis. That would be great.

[@JoseGarcia-wj7cp]

He would never.

[@gregtimpany4183]

I certainly hope teacher's unions here this. It is an absolute tragedy that children have not been able to learn in person.

[@summerofplums]

"The social media environment has created a zero sum game where you're not scoring for truth, not debating for truth, you're debating for social points, for prestige within a tribe. You stake your tribe out and then you pound ideologically on whatever that is."

[@justcalmdown1027]

oregon has now put educators ahead of seniors for vaccine. reasoning is to get schools open, as a 72y/o i object.

[@user-sh4sm9hw7k]

I totally agree, especially when those teachers now say school isn't safe until kids are vaccinated too, and still won't go back in-person.

[@sharont1250]

I like Dr. Prasad! 👍

[@MsSunstoned]

Please keep doing/talking what you're doing/talking. Thank you.

[@drcapt]

The end discussion makes me think of when dr mike went out partying after telling people to be mature and wear a mask

[@janeseum3703]

I always heard "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger." Hmm

[@kathleengivant-taylor2277]

Yup agree. I have had all three of the last three pandemic illnesses including covid. Well I would consider myself lucky but also I guess a good immune system

[@laurenmcrae3790]

How does that translate into the risk of bringing it into a nursing home especially with the new more easily transmissible variants?

[@Asptuber]

As before you have to weigh the risks (likelyhood AND severity of outcome) and benefits. I don't know what the vaccine order is in other places, over here* it is front line healthcare workers and nursing home residents and staff first. So I'll never have to think about this, my dad (in assisted living) will be vaccinated months before I am. Already we have had to make the risk/benefit calculation: masks, short visits, outdoors as much as possible etc. Parts of it - ie hand hygiene and being very attentive to even minor symptoms (test test test!) - won't change much. Parts of it will start to change: maybe slightly longer visits, maybe not paying as much attention to air-volume when indoors, not counting days between when I've met someone I deem risky (young people) to when I can next visit my father *Finland. Remarkably low incidence through out. Very few hard restrictions. Generally good compliance with recommendations. Main problem is availability of vaccine, at least for a few more months. But now I am really getting tired of this; the hype around the variants is getting even me suspicious. We need a clear and *reasonable* goal for when we can open up outdoor group activities again (been stopped since late November), incidence below 40/100k/2wks or something like that. It feels ridiculous to have the lowest incidence in Europe (still below 70/100k/2wk) and the messaging is all panicking about the variants.

[@laurenmcrae3790]

@@Asptuber Just wondering if healthcare workers would likely still have to mask, etc. I imagine we would given the vulnerability of our clientele. It will be interesting to see the data post vaccine. We are not mandated at this time and there are quite a few staff who are opting out. I'm not panicking about the variants, but since I care for LTC residents, I am certainly concerned for them. I will continue to follow the data.

[@gunlovingurls9200]

This is an amazing podcast!

[@ADHDGG]

This is definitely food for serious thought for the medical community.

[@dan8402]

Vinay in the house!!! Zdogg love it when you get Vinay on the show! We need to get back to normal! Seriously can we get Monica, Vinay, and you all on the same show? Talk about mind blown!!! If the mutant COVID doesn’t get us, stupid politicians will! 😂😂😂

[@anthonycunningham4598]

Great conversation!!

[@russcoash6710]

This issue may have already been discussed and I certainly have not read everything but here is a thought regarding the numbers being used for how effective the vaccines are. I am assuming that the study participants in the Moderna and Pfizer/BioNTech continued to wear mask, physically distance and avoid close confined spaces. We know all of these things reduce the dose of the virus we take in so all we know from the studies is how well they work WHEN USED IN CONJUNCTION with strategies to lower the dose of the virus. What are your thoughts? Russ Coash, PA-C Family Practice Emergency Medicine Hospital Medicine

[@ashleyhollman5959]

🙌🏼 yes!

[@jamesrkrau2481]

One of my favorite guest the you have Dr. Z