Vecna was hidden in the very first episode of Stranger Things

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[@shelbyvillerules9962]

Everyone always asks "Where's Vecna?" but nobody ever asks "How's Vecna?"

[@Onceforu]

Fr💀

[@ishotudropdead]

I will do you one better . Why is vecna ?

[@hollowjam84]

I'll do you one better, who is Vecna?

[@ishotudropdead]

@@hollowjam84 where is vecna

[@Ari_178]

@@ishotudropdead that is literally what they said we are all talking about bruh

[@flakygaming2647]

If it was vecna, that means he had access to a gate, if he wanted to leave the upside down and enter the real world why would he go back to the upside down

[@kadens1903]

He doesent want to he hates humanity did you watch the show

[@flakygaming2647]

@@kadens1903 I did. That is why it doesn't make sense to me that vecna was in episode 1. If it was vecna, he would have initiated his plan to end the world immediately while he was in the real world. He would get to the real world, kidnap some kids and go back.

[@famousthaneus9810]

That very easily could've just been Vec astral projecting, but I do agree that it's not him.

[@AbigailHonestly]

@@flakygaming2647 why did he need power to stay

[@awaisyousaf]

Perfect! Exactly what i wanted to say!

[@redANDrouge]

Also, one of the reasons will might have survived, is because he was singing “should I stay or should I go” in the upside down

[@kateysneed3359]

thats what i seriously think

[@kirstenhinton6727]

Smart! I didn’t think of that. 👍🏼👍🏼

[@mariam_ah]

oo smart

[@MahammadAhmed]

I don't get it.

[@rach2509]

​@@MahammadAhmedThat's what saved Max in season 4! Her song Running up that Hill! So it makes sense that Will would have survived by singing his song, just like Max hearing hers!

[@zxdith]

Fun fact: when billy was saying it was all for eleven, that was vecna talking about the upside down. They even showed the clip of Billy saying it. Eleven said it was always him. Vecna truly has been around since the beginning. So that was not vecna. But he was the one who brought that demogorgon into hawkins.

[@jayragnarok8096]

They were building the Solid form of the mind flayer you goon

[@GrayceMacmillan]

But he can’t open portals only eleven can

[@jezoa]

@@GrayceMacmillanso how did he create a big ass portal right through the heart of Hawkins

[@GrayceMacmillan]

@@jezoa BECAUSE you know how in season three eleven gets that weird flesh thing in her leg well that took elevens power and then gave it to vecna so vecna took her power but only at the end of season three

[@jezoa]

@@GrayceMacmillan Yeah we all get it, but it sounded like you were saying he can't open portals at all

[@noahbolt]

"It got me... the Demogorgon." - Will Byers, Stranger Things 1, Episode 8

[@kylegraham7363]

Exactly and eleven said it was the demigorgon

[@spaghettiwithink]

That was before he went home

[@spaghettiwithink]

@@kylegraham7363 they call it the demogorgon because of eleven using the demogorgon game piece from DnD to show thw monster hunting will, Eleven probably calls it that because of them (despite them not refferring to the game piece as demogorgon)

[@HiHello-ro5bb]

@@kylegraham7363 she didn’t remember Henry/001 during seasons 1-3, dr.Brenner made her remember them. So she didn’t know he was behind it. Also they didn’t have a name for him, they named him vecna in season 4 because of a character in d&d, but technically they didn’t know he existed yet.

[@cawsomeaolin]

That was episode 1 Edit: I know it was also episode 8 now alright I’m starting to notice a pattern here with stranger things reply sections

[@derekbrown5420]

The Season 1 demogorgon had access to portals and took its prey into the Upside-Down to feed on them later. The ones at the Russian prison presumably didn't have access a portal and were probably not acting normally. Those were desperate, maybe even driven to madness. We can't use them as the reference.

[@younghermitkrab]

yeah, and not to mention the demogorgon in the russian prison were being experimented on for military combat purpose, hence the aggressive and animalistic in nature because they are being modified to literally kill.

[@crimzin171]

EXACTLY

[@FrenchieTime1225]

Agreed

[@tookool4skool98]

true but who opened the lock?

[@FrenchieTime1225]

@@tookool4skool98 in the beginning of making the show they probably wanted to give the demogorgon powers so they made that episode to that shows them and then after that episode they scrapped the idea because it would be unbeatable if it had the powers so they scrapped it and hoped everyone would forget that small thing 🤷‍♂️

[@mrmindtrick99]

“Clock noise” precedes to show a bike wheel spinning.. stretching a bit

[@DGCpicturesEntertainment]

@Dio Brando That noise was just part of the Soundtrack I think, not a clock chime

[@Giga__]

bro hear carefully during the bike wheel spinning u can hear a clock sound

[@Dedwolf637]

@@Giga__that was not a clock sound!

[@harley8047]

​@@Giga__I take it you've never owned a bike.

[@Giga__]

@@harley8047 i have though yes

[@ryanstauffer119]

A comic book was released about Will’s perspective being in the Upside Down. It confirmed that it really was the Demogorgon instead of Vecna. The reason why it didn’t eat Will after bringing him into the Upside Down is because immediately when they arrived, Will fired the gun he was holding at it causing the Demogorgon to disappear to somewhere else. The comic shows that whenever the Demogorgon showed up looking for Will in the Upside Down version of their house, Will would hide under his bed. And he would still use that gun to defend himself. The comic says that Will lost consciousness when the Demogorgon found him at Castle Byers. So maybe at that point, Vecna probably made the Demogorgon put Will in those vines at the library. And since there were other victims there at the library, maybe the Demogorgon only puts victims in there when they are unconscious and only eats people that are still alive and trying to resist.

[@thebetterderpp7105]

I can see that. It was mentioned that the demogorgon likes to kill live people.

[@RhinoBuckeye]

That comic was unofficial I think

[@20091081]

Makes sense

[@wichitoa4360]

Is that comic canon? 😮

[@ryanstauffer119]

@@wichitoa4360 I'm pretty sure every Stranger Things comic is canon

[@bazookabonsai8818]

"Why didnt the Demogorgon devour Will right away?"- two words: Hive Mind

[@adamplentl5588]

Plot armor.

[@cohenvos8621]

Only the demodogs have a hive mind not the fully grown demogorgans

[@bazookabonsai8818]

@@cohenvos8621 I originally thought that until Season 4, demobats and the vines changed my opinion

[@jontybott1490]

Then why didn’t Dart attack them in the tunnels at the end of season 2?

[@bazookabonsai8818]

@@jontybott1490 hopefully, I am remembering this right, but Dart was the slug Will coughed up in the final few moments in S1- after the gate was already closed. So Dart must've been disconnected from the hive mind because of that

[@this_is_an_outrage]

When someone asks my man the time, he checks his bike.

[@Megasinjin]

I’m dead 🤣

[@Daf3tish]

😂😭 so done!

[@coldblackice]

LMAOOOOO

[@madisonjackman9688]

LOL😂

[@SavouryGalette]

Literally disproven with a single sentence: "It got me.. the *Demogorgon."*

[@kingbacon2937]

Yup. Same thing goes for Barb, she just didn’t manage to escape like Will did because of the pool being too hard to climb

[@SavouryGalette]

@@kingbacon2937 Exactly. And somehow, people think that by some _magical_ chance, Vecna made his first appearance in the first episode.

[@kingbacon2937]

@@SavouryGalette Yup. Nonsense if you ask me. Like what would Vecna earn on killing Will, a random kid? He was building his power. There was just a single known demogorgon in Hawkins back then and it just wanted to hunt.

[@SavouryGalette]

@@kingbacon2937 That's a valid question, what does Vecna gain from kidnapping Will instead of killing him on the spot? And also, the silhouette they use as "evidence" is humanoid, and that's their proof. You know what other creature has a humanoid shape? The Demogorgon, and the silhouette actually looks more similar to a Demogorgon than it does Vecna.

[@GGGxe]

@@kingbacon2937if it just wanted to hunt though it would still beg the question "why would it kidnap Will and Barbara?" the other Demogorgons were extremely aggressive

[@staceytate4758]

It's the Demogorgon. If you look at Vecna, he has a normal length arm on the right and then his left one is longer with the claws on it. The Demogorgon has both long arms. Which is how Joyce describes him to Hopper in S1 " It was almost human, but it wasn't. It has long arms and it's like he has no face" When she said "Long arms" she motioned her arms to show it was both too. If you look back at the Demogorgon, his head has always been like that when it's mouth was closed. Side note: You gotta remember, they always had the whole plot planned, the timeline or storyline they wanted. Which means they wanted 001 or Vecna to be a twist for a later season as they had to introduce this world and the characters, while keeping it creepy/scary. To build up to the finale, bc the show had to go with the flow. If that makes any sense lol

[@Wish817]

Yes! 100% the demogorgan. Vecna was once a human. He has just been transformed by the upside down. So he would still have his normal human height, you can even see that when Nancy Steve and Robin are killing him in the last season. He also has all these vines and a bunch of flesh around him which he wouldn’t be as thin as the demogorgan. The demogorgan was described as “about 9 feet tall, thin, white skin, no face” definitely the demogorgan and not vecna.

[@staceytate4758]

@@Wish817 Perfect points that I didn't include lol

[@gnelfpmeh]

It's a demogorgon, everything else can be explained by inconsistent writing.

[@Lukefiore]

Yeah people are overthinking this, it’s obviously just a writing mistake, they were trying to create tension with the telekinesis door opening and if you watch the opening scene it’s so obvious it’s a demogorgan because the noises it makes

[@johnnie2388]

Who moved the lock then?

[@harlequindeer2142]

@@johnnie2388 again as they said; inconsistent writing. I love the show but you gotta acknowledge the hiccups of the series.

[@INURWALLL]

@@Lukefiore fr like- Vecna wouldn't start making screeching noises at a child to scare them, especially if he was a human at one point. That would downright humiliating 💀

[@INURWALLL]

@@johnnie2388 inconsistent writing; they could have written demogorgans to have telekinesis but then removed that because it wouldn't have been as good for the story nor would it be as good to make animal-like demons have powers that it most likely wouldn't know how to use them so easily with their mindset.

[@gridone769]

Ya'll reaching too hard.

[@pab1381]

It’s ridiculous. It’s a demogorgon. They need to relax. They look similar.

[@hanburgundy4317]

"Clock noises" That's his bike spokes lol

[@Zood94]

When a series try to be "It's all connected" so bad. It's fun and amazing series don't get wrong, I really like it, but this just ridiculous.

[@aldricwarner1704]

Nah the duffer brothers confirmed it was vecna kidnapped Will

[@ethancoolbro18gamer86]

@@aldricwarner1704 no they didn't

[@everest2268]

It’s just the demogorgon with its face closed. The ‘clock’ sound is the sound of the bike wheel spinning

[@follower8815]

Who telekinetically unlocked the door?

[@indiragardita]

@@follower8815 no one the demogorgon in S1 is smart since the Russian demogorgon has been fed a ton he is mor agressive

[@Haiesta]

@@follower8815 someone else in another comment suggested inconsistent writing

[@compositegodzilla6556]

@Dio Brando agree

[@kirstenhinton6727]

The clock sound is a gong-like sound . Not a tick tock. I don’t think it is a secret clue , though. I think it’s just a recurring sound in the series. But super cool idea to have Vecna come back. He can time travel perhaps?

[@tocaliv5387]

“It’s *just* the demogorgan.” JUST?!?

[@MrBaracu]

Just.

[@basedboi3956]

Reeaaachhhhh. It’s obviously a demagorgon. Vecna was most likely thought up right after Season 3 when the Duffer Brothers realized they needed a villain with dialogue and motivations. They did a great job connecting him with the existing lore though.

[@nathangarn6918]

Nah, it leaked pretty early on there was a Hawkins lab experiment in the upside down.

[@kyleferguson4236]

Meh...I wouldn't consider it "great". I mean if u REALLY stop and think about the timeline...so Henry takes eleven down to the basement and shows her how to escape, then he murders everyone and then what? Brenner goes on training eleven like nothing happened after she wakes up from her coma, AND THEN she opens the gate? If she sent Henry to the upside down wouldnt the gate open right then? It did when she did the exact same thing to the demigorgon in season 1..I get what they had to work with, I just think it was a tad lazy compared to how amazing the writing normally is

[@rossothecrimson7]

@@kyleferguson4236 Yep they didnt do a good job cleaning up their retcon. A lot of grey areas now with no explanation. I feel like they definitely didnt have the vecna story planned from Season 1 like the video is saying......no way.

[@kyleferguson4236]

@@rossothecrimson7 lol of course they didnt, but the fact that they were STILL able to make me set aside the shitty retcon is a testament to how good the show actually is

[@avalosp]

@@rossothecrimson7 Yeah when a directer thats gotten this far says "We've planned everything since the beginning" its most likely never true

[@JudyBeeGaming]

I appreciate the theory, but it's only a theory. Season 1 demogorgon has not been acting consistently to the ones later in the series, considering it took Will to the upside down without killing him.

[@Llamu]

You can’t really use this example here lol because the entire theory goes against it

[@shabobble13]

@@Llamu they clearly didnt watch the vid lmao

[@luverjoe9001]

Watch the full video bestie. Don’t comment unless you fully watch through

[@alexandermoore8013]

In addition, Barb was brought to the upside-down pool before being eaten by the demogorgon. Only after their connection to the upside down is severed like in the end of s3 do they feed without first bringing their food home

[@JudyBeeGaming]

@@luverjoe9001 I did watch it!

[@cosmicblue529]

And the very popular scene in Season 4 with Max running in the Upside Down,Max survived because of her favourite song and Noah was singing ‘Should I stay or should I go’ in the Upside Down.

[@VaderXEditzYT]

Y’all forgot one thing, Vecna has control over everything known in the upside down, as the sole creator of the creatures created down there. Since that’s the case, theories about Will being possessed by Vecna can be true in Season 5. In the first episode, if the demogorgan wanted to, he could easily just kill Will and eat his ass up. But it didn’t. This could be because Vecna was controlling the Demogorgan. That could be why the demogorgan placed wills body in vines to keep him restrained to the wall for Vecna to use him later as his own pupil. And, when Hopper and Joyce rescue him, it could have been that them rescuing Will foiled Vecnas plan to come to the over world which is why he made 4 sacrifices. Also, in Season 2 or 3 (I don’t remember sorry), Will was possess ed by the mind flayer and you guys saw how much that impacted Will. But, they once again found a way to save Will which again foiled Vecnas plan to come to the overworld. What I’m trying to say is, Vecna sees Will as his own Pupil because of his sadness and his anger. This could allow Will to try and attempt to help Vecna come through to the overworld and basically cause Mass extinction. Vecna could most definitely possess Will as most people would want Max to get better which would make less people focus on Will, allowing him to escape and joining Vecna, Just a theory tho! 👇 if you think it’s true

[@isrulius]

“We can even hear clock noises” It’s the bike wheel spinning, it literally shows it.

[@bibyte3761]

And the bass is just a common terror sound.

[@Rob_Gene07]

No it's a clock but the clock is just showing that vecna is present, i don't see why vecna couldn't control a demo tho

[@petrospatrianakos9166]

you can hear both the bike and the clock behind it

[@follower8815]

Bikes don’t sound like clocks 😂

[@isrulius]

@@follower8815 and that’s not what a clock sounds like dingus

[@DiegoAlvarez-tx5hh]

Vecna has his claws on his left hand. That silhouette has claws on his right. And therefore is the demogorgon.

[@fuzzy_258]

no, rewatch it and pause before he zooms in, the left hand is definitely a claw and the right hand just has longer fingers.

[@DiegoAlvarez-tx5hh]

@@fuzzy_258 Well I don’t have to rewatch it to tell you that Vecna has a normal hand on one side. His character was HIGHLY inspired by Freddy, to include weapon. So even if the silhouette has 2 hands with long fingers, it still could not be Vecna. I hope I didn’t come off as disrespectful, not trying to come off hot lol.

[@lerlan1066]

@@DiegoAlvarez-tx5hh i brightened it up and saw cool one, The left (to our left) hand is longer then right (to our right) hand, the right hand appeared a human arm, does this mean its actually vecna?

[@DiegoAlvarez-tx5hh]

@@lerlan1066 I also brightened it up. It appears that the right arm is long comparative to the body. Which is a trait of the Demogorgon. Plus, Screenrant claims it’s uncharacteristic for the Demogorgon to kidnap but it did it to Barb. If that wasn’t enough, Stranger Things was originally meant to be one season.

[@saucybaka4439]

@@lerlan1066 no, it doesn't. Just means you are reaching

[@sam132471]

This is because they have been making edits to earlier seasons without telling anyone

[@cashbrady4074]

I thought that too

[@mikepriestey2547]

No they haven't.

[@cashbrady4074]

And how do you know mr know it all?

[@cashbrady4074]

It ain’t vecna

[@mikepriestey2547]

@@cashbrady4074 Because the writers have openly said they haven't. Quote: "No scenes from previous seasons have ever been cut or re-edited and they never will be."

[@Drevine]

Vecna probably opened the door with his teleconetic powers so the Demagorgan could come in through the door

[@sunsetvibe1063]

In the comic though where you see season 1 of Stranger Things from Will’s perspective, it’s revealed that Will was brought to the Upside Down by the Demogorgon.

[@axxxx3308]

What comic was it? There are certain comics that aren’t considered canon.

[@joshuareynolds23]

@@axxxx3308 doesn't matter it's clearly a Demogorgon from the design silhouette.

[@sunsetvibe1063]

@@axxxx3308 The graphic novel called The Other Side.

[@disorderrgv]

I believe they already said the comic isn't really canon.

[@reaperraider999]

THERES COMICS? WHY AM I JUST HEARING AB THIS NOW? also did the show come first or did the comics?

[@GojiraFan25]

Definitely just the demogorgon with its mouth closed. Yes I understand the telekinesis argument but remember this was before the Duffer Bros. knew the show would explode it’s entirely possible the demogorgon had minor telekinesis powers as canon back then before Vecna was a concept

[@tmn4928]

He literally says at the end of the video vecna has been apart of their plan since the beginning

[@kylegraham7363]

@@tmn4928 that doesn't mean he was in it it just means they knew they were gonna add him in

[@tmn4928]

@@kylegraham7363 well in the scene where Will goes to his house and looks at the door glass and a shadow of a figure appears I think that's vecna or it could be the demogorgon and vecna used his telekinesis to unlock the door

[@kylegraham7363]

@@tmn4928 yup the demigorgon but that one was more different and liked toying with its prey

[@braziliansimon2737]

You're just theorizing too. Yes, the show was supposed to have only one season, but who said Vecna wasn't a thing by then? Lol. And no... that is not a demogorgon

[@TJ_youtube]

I mean he was singing his favorite song in the upside down like how max had to listen to her favorite song to not die to vecna

[@NL0Gwenster]

The clocknoises have been added later to S1 on Netflix. If you have the show on S1 DVD / Bluray you won't hear the clock sound. I'm not gonna go check mine now, but probably they added the silhouetted figure in post as well. I don't remember that. But i could be mistaken. I'm very certain about the clock noises though.

[@shadowagent6051]

Still breaks my heart to see Max in that condition in the hospital,her words about "being afraid and not ready to die" it's always in my head everytime I see something related to Stranger Things,she didn't deserve all that suffering.

[@ikybaiiki]

Tbh she was annoying dont mind if they end her next season

[@krishnam2846]

​@@ikybaiikibro ☠️

[@quackdaniel1302]

​@@krishnam2846its fiction dont really matter

[@camerontaylor7177]

There's a theory that the only reason the Demogorgon didn't immediately devour Will is that it was sent into the real world by One to hunt Eleven, and it captured Will thinking he was El as they were both small and had a similar build.

[@tannukashyap8311]

still with an animalistic instinct he should've devoured will right then and there, how this mind connection thing between vecna and his monsters work is beyond my comprehension.

[@mewhenthethewhen4079]

@@tannukashyap8311 Hive. Mind.

[@redfox8078]

@tannu kashyap You're ok with comprehending magic powers, another dimension, and the fact that music can stop magic. But you draw the line at a hive mind

[@Aspenstorpemusic]

@Dio Brando they probably wanted the demogorgon to have powers so they included it but then decided not too

[@TotallyRandomContent..]

But if that was true, why did barb die?

[@derrickbillings8654]

I couldn't possibly disagree more. The figure Will sees is 100% the demogorgon and the reason it's hesitant is because it's in an environment as alien to it as the UD is to us. It's well established that kidnapping prey is part of its reproductive cycle, so Will's disappearance is part and parcel of that. He just managed to escape and hide until the DG found him hiding later in season 1. For my money, I'll believe the Duffers had Vecna in mind from the beginning when I see a document with a date on it. I love the series but I don't think at the end of season 3 that they knew they were getting renewed. Season 4 is HEAVY retconning.

[@alex_910]

You can also hear clocks in Season 3 in the scene where Billy sees a group of clones of him.

[@megs4193]

100% vecna is controlling the upside-down, looking back you can see it so clearly, even Will's favourite song coming on while Joyce was trying to contact him 👍🙂😉.

[@Iliketocommenthastovomit]

When someone try’s to convince you of something that just isn’t true. 😆

[@marshx9213]

Its true.

[@Aspenstorpemusic]

@@marshx9213 it's not.

[@marshx9213]

@@Aspenstorpemusic it is, look up vecna's first design.

[@MrBaracu]

@@marshx9213 but its not vecna in season 1.

[@the2960]

When will is in the shed, you can hear demogorgon noises shortly before he's taken

[@elfroggo1111]

Will said “the demogorgon got me” he said it was the demogorgon. And I love your videos!

[@RETROGAMESROBOT]

The ticking sounds like gears on a bike when you petal backwards. But that’s just what I think

[@aid3nxr_editz]

Not the ticking the bell

[@DaiseyChaine]

yeah exactly what i thought. when he played that i seriously almost lost it like have you never ridden a bike

[@carlosmata3310]

The clock in s4. Not a watch

[@kirstenhinton6727]

It’s like a gong sound

[@RETROGAMESROBOT]

it literally shows a bike

[@frantictoast3741]

Lmao stop. Vecna wasn't even thought up during season 1. The DB had originally planned it to be a limited 1 season series so it needed a definite beginning, middle and end. It wasn't Vecna.

[@PetersonSilva]

they planned it as an anthology, yes, but during development Netflix execs asked them to explain more about what the upside down is. The video is correct, this is on record, Google it. also also, the graphic novels were allowed to be developed with a single caveat: don't do anything with subject 001.

[@Llamu]

Yes but they could easily say change the story just like they plan to change wills birthday

[@shiverfan4867]

Plus he has 2 hand that are long, vecna only has 1 long hand

[@thomasjeppesen3055]

@@shiverfan4867 not saying I believe this theory but it isn’t uncommon for character designs to change over the years, especially if the original design barely made an appearance. Just look at characters like Voldemort and Thanos that went through noticeable redesigns once they became a significant figure of their universe. So who knows, maybe that silhouette was Vecna but then they decided to change his character design later.

[@shiverfan4867]

@@thomasjeppesen3055 then why did they change it then? The demigorgon looks just like that silhouette with it's more skinny and agile looking. That's obviously the demigorgon

[@ilikehotdogs19]

The Demogorgon took Will to the Upside Down in the first episode. In the eighth episode of Stranger Things Season 1, Will says; "It got me. The Demogorgon." It's not Vecna.

[@andrewgates8158]

Vecna controls demogorgons.

[@LexyParker1]

It was the demogorgon. The whole point was that the demogorgon was supposed to bring Will to the upside down. That’s why it didn’t kill him immediately. It did the same with Barb. Brought her to the upside down version of Steve’s pool to then kill her in its own domain.

[@thedodofarmer1butnotmaking167]

The demogorgon didnt kill Barb immedietly, why would it have done that with Will? Also, there are ALWAYS clock sounds in the upside down or when something related to the upside down is happening. Also, when the thing was on the road, IT WAS LITTERELY A MAN IN A DEMOGORGON SUIT. Sorry for spelling and everything im on mobile.

[@gameznvlogs3790]

You couldn’t see the demogorgon tho anyways it was too dark. They could easily change the story and say it was Vecna. Not that hard. And there’s always clock noises in the upside down Bc of Vecna lmao

[@jswid2251]

@@gameznvlogs3790 my guy you hear the figure make demogorgon sounds when will goes in the shed and it gets him its very obviously meant to be a demogorgon

[@gameznvlogs3790]

@@jswid2251 no

[@gameznvlogs3790]

@@jswid2251 idk lol

[@PetersonSilva]

Yeah that was just a synth sound that people are forcing into being a clock. it's a very different sound from the s04 clock

[@dawsondamer9434]

Will also singing Should I stay or should I go by The Clash when he's in the Upside down may be the only thing g that actually kept him alive

[@keithlockyer691]

Bruh they said that in the show we know 💀

[@dawsondamer9434]

@@keithlockyer691 I mean it was his "Running up that hill"

[@MrAlexarctica]

@@keithlockyer691 why are you being a jerk? lol

[@tasteypringle8168]

@@dawsondamer9434 no it’s just his therapist lol

[@bunbunfanpage7161]

it was probably just foreshadowing

[@niltonarguello21]

Makes sense actually and also explains why 1 didn’t just stayed in the normal world. Because his powers were stronger within the upside down and also he’s got the mind flayer hive mind within, also explains the kidnappings because the mind flayer prob was looking for not only more foot soldiers but also a way that demo babies could develop faster and stronger by using host as food sources. It was all there since the beginning

[@user-yi8es5fp7h]

Vecna controls the Demogorgon, and probably told it not to hurt Will. And also in the novel (which shows us what Will was doing in the upside down) revealed it was the Demogorgon. The Demogorgon also didn't instinlly kill Bard, it first took her into the upside down and then killed her.

[@arcey2201]

Will would have mentioned "it didn't look like what I saw when I went missing"

[@Kyranwyatt]

Will never saw Vecna

[@Taquitoman138]

I doubt this was the plan, it feels like a half hearted attempt to retcon the series "ohh yeah, I forgot we did that, it works I guess". There's no other mention of vecna in the first season aside from a silhouette that matches a Demogorgon more than it does vecna. That is not the same noise as the clock in season 4, there are distinct differences between the two. They clearly play the Demogorgon noise right before he turns around to see the creature indicating that a Demogorgon took will. As for how he escaped, Barb was about to escape herself but couldn't do it in time due to losing her glasses. Because she didn't have her glasses she couldn't find the ladder in time and thus couldn't climb it fast enough. I understand that people might say that "Vecna said this as an explanation". What they're missing is that as a writer you can look back and see what you've created and add on to it. Without writing a gap for vecna from the beginning (either by leaving clues or presenting odd interactions that become clear once vecna has been introduced), feels tacked on and cheap. As if they had no season 4 villain and had to improvise The series is good don't get me wrong (I binge the season the day it drops), but you're giving them far too much credit by saying it was all planned, I can tell they plan each season individually, however they do not plan between seasons

[@strangerthings88]

YES

[@guiltybyproxy1]

Hell, they even admitted they forgot Will's own birthday that they created lol. It's definitely inconsistent writing, and Vecna wasn't even a concept back then. Edit: just so you know, I'm agreeing with you. Hope you got that.

[@Taquitoman138]

@Dio Brando I was explaining how will might have escaped the Demogorgon. Since barb had time to flee after the Demogorgon took her it's plausible to say that will could have as well. The only difference is that he wasn't in a pit or visually impaired. I think the Demogorgon takes people to the other side to feed on them, other wise will and barb would have straight up died where they were taken. It makes no sense that the Demogorgon was being piloted, never anywhere else is a Demogorgon piloted, or hinted at being piloted. They've always stated that they are a hive hind (which in of itself is not true, the bats would have conveyed to Vecna that people were in the upside down). My best guess, the Demogorgon was standing because it was taking stock of it's surroundings, we've seen it stand before in the Buyer's house

[@calvinbrinenestoris2357]

We hear the Demogorgon's unique growling noises multiple times when Will gets taken, and it's been known to take it's prey to the upside-down to feed on them when possible(Barbara). Barbara almost escaped from it when she was taken to the upside-down before being yanked back into the pool. Will however, was right next to an open door and had a gun with him, so it looks like after he plane-shifted he just shot the Demogorgon and ran(which is what happened in the comic)

[@YTNFSCC]

"Why didnt it kill WIll immediatly" Well, considering that not killing their victims immediatly was the Demogorgons whole MO during season 1 I guess it was instructed by Vecna not to? Considering by that time he must've already been the Leader of the Upside-Downs forces. Remember that Barb also was not immediatly killed. tbh. I dont remember anyone being immediatly killed when encountering the Demogorgon. But I can see why it would be weird, that the Demogorgon could move the lock at the shed.

[@Utubeeee201]

The only thing that was wrong about this one is that it did kill barb right away but in the upside down. But I think that vecna chose will to side him to take over Hawkins because in s4 11 said no and banished him to the upside down during her flashback. So maybe he recruited will to be his scout or something.

[@HyphyJuice916]

Vecna controls the demigorgons. If the Duffer brothers have had him in mind since season 1 then it makes sense why Will wasn't killed and was infected with the Mind Flare.

[@NowaboMusic]

*Mind Flayer

[@chaosomega623]

Wrong franchise lmao

[@CakedSolos]

main characters die in season 1. very logical right?

[@artangels9958]

@@chaosomega623 ??

[@tylergannon7398]

Idk why people keep saying Will was abducted by the Demogorgan. They said several times that Will was good at hiding and that he escaped the Demogorgan and hid in the upside down.

[@a2tr0_J]

They’ve been editing the past seasons recently to make the whole show seem like it was all adding up and there since the beginning

[@MrNoIee]

What? No they have not I don't even know where you got this idea from.

[@iterationfackshet1990]

@@MrNoIee the Duffer brothers have admitted recently that they have, although it’s mostly been cgi from what they said, like the demogorgon’s attack on Brenner which was made to make it more apparent that he survived and changing Will’s birthday. These sounds were there originally, all the grandfather clock sounds from before season 3 were simply stock sounds that they used to intensify the horror, before season 3 a lot of sounds that weren’t considered “crucial” (like the demogorgon’s yell is crucial to the demogorgon) were simply stock sounds, the most apparent one is the now infamous “dark souls backstab” sound that they used several times. It was only in season 3 when they actually started planning the future seasons that the grandfather clock sound wasn’t a stock sound but rather custom made and used in scenes that seem to hint at vecna, as well as that one scene at the end of episode 6 of season 3 that uses a piece of Phillip Glass’ music, which they would continue with in season 4. In season 3 the music represents the mindflayer righting a perceived wrong against himself, while in season 4 the music represents vecna as an Icarus style character, someone who got too close to the sun.

[@KoolMB]

Source?

[@alexv426]

@@iterationfackshet1990 ok thank you I thought I was tripping rewatching the past seasons

[@CMTechnica]

@@KoolMB the writers literally said as much themselves. You don’t need a source when they literally admit it

[@MyNameIsntLong]

When I first saw this I went straight back to the first episode to find a clock or something

[@jamiebondega]

Also, the fact that will’s voice was heard when he sang his favorite song

[@soulsurvivor2706]

when hop and joyce find will in the upside down he has a tentacle in his mouth, the demogorgon kidnapped him for incubation, and the upside down is a hive mind, the mind flayer might've made the demogorgon kidnap him instead as some strategic move

[@user-hl3kq8ov8m]

mindflayer and vecna is 1 thing

[@tannukashyap8311]

incubation means? can you please elaborate it a little bit?

[@soulsurvivor2706]

@@tannukashyap8311 incubation is putting an organism that needs fostering to grow until it can live on its own, in this specific case, the demogorgon put a baby demogorgon/demo dog slug in will so it could grow in a safe, warm environment, this is the slug will vomits up later at the end of the season. And it’s also probably dart.

[@tannukashyap8311]

@@soulsurvivor2706 thank you so much✨

[@mikepriestey2547]

@@user-hl3kq8ov8m The mindflayer and Vecna aren't one thing at all. The mindflayer is basically parasitic particles that existed in the upside down long before Vecna arrived. Vecna finds them and controls them using his powers. He's also obviously swallowed some as well as he's part of the hove mind.

[@brandonwiitanen7827]

It’s a cool headcanon I suppose, but when season 1 was made, it was intended as a standalone mini series or an anthology. They hadn’t even created vecna yet. We can talk about design and sounds all day, but this alone should debunk this. When filmed, the silhouette was intended to be a demogorgon.

[@keyman6689]

Exactly. Their original plan for the series was like a Black Mirror or Twilight Zone, until they realized the popularity of the show and characters. Then they decided they needed to continue the stories of Hawkins moving forward.

[@MttSuddarth]

The video literally says the Duffer brothers had created Vecna from the beginning.

[@brandonwiitanen7827]

@@MttSuddarth Yea no. I'm sure that's just press. Duffer Brothers said they created Vecna from the beginning? Duffer Brothers said ST was originally intended as a standalone miniseries? Two contradicting statements. Also both reported by Screen Rant, one in this short, and one in another article. One of those had to come first tho. And the former was just convenient retcon. I don't have a problem w Vecna. Totally love him as a villain. But he was not created at the beginning, simply because he was never intended to be

[@ashiumtanwirahmed011]

@@brandonwiitanen7827 they planned the entire series from the beginning. It was never meant to be an anthology

[@franksuit1270]

@@ashiumtanwirahmed011 no they didn’t. Find me article back when the show first started Or a little after stating that

[@dahlia_sunny]

Fun fact: in some scenes in season 3, while the flayed were going to the mind flayer, you can hear vecnas clock ticking in the background. for anyone that wants to watch it’s season 3 episode 8

[@NotTrixnityYT]

That kinda makes sense because when Barbara got attacked, she didn’t go to the upside down and run. She was face to face with the demogorgon but with will he had time to run

[@jackieadelle190]

I’m pretty sure it was a demogorgon being controlled by vecna

[@user-rn2cx4qq4e]

and the best answer goes tooooo....

[@madduxnagel6935]

Yup this is pretty much confirmed to be the case after Season 4, Vecna sent the Demogorgon to scout the lab and most likely kill Eleven, but he found Will instead

[@icyonion2652]

Yep I’ve been saying that for a while

[@INURWALLL]

@@madduxnagel6935 Will wasn't near the lab tho so that wouldn't make sense

[@madduxnagel6935]

@@INURWALLL The lab was relatively near Will’s house, and Eleven managed to wander all the way over there through the woods, so if she could, then the Demogorgon could too

[@PopCultureNihilist]

This is the craziest reach, even for Screen Rant.

[@jbirdpr0994]

It was literally just the demogorgon with its mouth closed

[@inkazen]

The Vecna clock is there throughout all the seasons cause he's present in the Upside Down killings and kidnappings since they're all relating to him, but the figure itself was a demogorgon. Also they don't instantly murder (take Barb for example)

[@KaedeharaKai]

Im guessing that was the silhouette of a demogorgon, but vecna can sense it so vecna went to will

[@ToyaTodorokiDabi]

The dude who made this video seems to forget that the Demogorgon can close it's mouth, It also has huge claws on both hands rather than just on the left

[@babithaurs1064]

Im just waiting for the 5th season to begin soon..

[@kimberleymonroe1157]

Soon? They haven't even started filming it. Pretty sure they don't even have a script yet. We gotta wait a few years before we get S5

[@wildesthog]

I can't wait for the prequel series to start...

[@arthurmorgan42069]

@@kimberleymonroe1157 while it won't be right away, the Duffer brother's have said they are taking July off, and will be in the writing room first week of August. Plus they've said they already have an plot for season 5. So with all that in mind hopefully a year to 18 months. Hopefully. Just my opinion.

[@corinnahuettner]

The vecna suit is made for the 4th season and was not there in season 1 and the actor, who plays vecna is since season 4 there.

[@ndundamalangwa5725]

And if you see his old design you can see it is him.

[@NickMachado]

Thats a demogorgon and thats the sound of his bike, not a clock.

[@Llamu]

No there is clock sounds aswell as the bike

[@SadBearsFan33]

@@Llamu that’s just post production scary clocks I’m pretty sure.

[@Ma55ey]

The ticking sound is used constantly in the first season to build tension... that's just the awesome soundtrack though... nothing to do with vecna... unless vecna is there when hopper is searching for the bug in his tailer aswell... lol

[@tasteypringle8168]

@@Llamu no that’s just you

[@TristanDeshaies]

it sounds like a gong. There's also only one chime. Not 4 like for Vecna

[@Meowman302]

The Duffer Brothers admitted they’ve been going through past seasons and “George Lucasing” details here and there, essentially revising some things. That clock sound could be one of those changes. We have no idea what they changed unless you have older unchanged dvd or blu ray discs of the show

[@ashiumtanwirahmed011]

Right

[@maggievlog854]

That “figure” was the demogogorgon genius

[@miraculouslystrange]

When I saw the first episode ever I was like “VeCnA” without even knowing very much about it only watching some videos about it online so I really do support this theory

[@nickabrams2221]

Dude look at the arms. It's a Demogorgon. If Vecna was able to or if he wanted to, he would have come through a gate ages ago, rather than sending Demogorgons, Demo-dogs, and the Mind Flayer. It didn't kill Will immediately because it's a TV show. If it killed Will right away, there'd be no suspense and no story.

[@Hurtts101]

I feel like it’s going to be the Chucky thing (remember, Stranger Things has a bit of every horror franchise in it) where Vecna will try to transfer his consciousness to Will.

[@CaptainSurf]

That makes a lot of sense to me. Can't wait to see what happens. Hope they don't do an Avengers time travel situation in final season, despite time travel confirmed for playing a major role. :/

[@kirstenhinton6727]

Yeah. I think it is because they pay homage in various ways throughout the series. So Back to the Future is the time travel homage.

[@voyager1568]

One point I haven’t seen people make, is that both Will and Henry had an affinity to draw what is known as the mind flayer. I feel like Will is going to tie into a lot of this lore in the final season. He saw the mind flayer, drew it, had an affinity for it. Hopefully he can help stop it

[@soulsparkxgaming9660]

I personally think that’s the demogorgon, he took will to use his body to reproduce more demogorgons. He didn’t care if they lived or died because they just need the body as a host which act as food supply for the babies. Barb didn’t last long because she was caught immediately. When they saved will and he came back I think he thought about using will then since you had a connection now.

[@mohammedrahman8213]

Will-draws the shadow monster Henry-draws the shadow monster Joyce-“he’s a sensitive child” Victor-“he is a sensitive child” Will-*does his eye thing like eleven* Henry-*does his eye thing like eleven* Everything starts to gel a bit But wait-will didn’t mention seeing vecna or anything that talks in s1, so maybe that was not vecna,dang this is all confusing

[@HiHello-ro5bb]

But then again they didn’t know vecna existed they didn’t even name anything vecna yet so will could have been saying vecna was a “Demogorgon”, especially since he didn’t see him in season 4.

[@cwalk43120]

ok what are you implying?

[@pfkkv9979]

Aah theory is pretty crazy and but never say never who knows maybe it is. But i dont think its actually true. Will only draws Shador monester because he was possessed by Shadow monster aka Vecna. So he see everything's what vecna see. And his eys are moving because still a little part of shadow monster is in him. And idk we alreday know that actually boss whole series is Henry so i think Will its just will the wise who can see evrything and feel Vecna.

[@mohammedrahman8213]

@@HiHello-ro5bb will could have described it? But remember brenner said”one doesn’t simply kill, he consumes”.He also can take memories

[@mohammedrahman8213]

@@pfkkv9979 Henry also drew the shadow monster

[@adamm8714]

Alright i got a theory behind this but first heavy spoiler warning for S4 Pt2 In part 2 we learned vecna was the mind flayer, in hoppers storyline we find a sample of mind flayer ash in an incubator when hopper asked the Russian about what happened to the ashes after they find the incubators broken he said it went inside them, them probably being the demogorgons, this could mean that vecna took over the demogorgons (similar to billy), my theory is that vecna took over a demogorgon right before season 1 and used it to play it safe with 11, what i think could back up this theory is the S1 demogorgons behavior, the S4 demogorgon was absolutely wild and when i watched it i thought to myself “S1 would go very different with this guy” and thats when i realized the S1 demogorgon acted more like vecna than the demogorgon we see in S4 some examples of this would be the S1 demogorgon simply walking towards will in the first episode or the S1 demogorgon waiting patiently at steves house in jonathans picture or the fact that he just sent will to the underworld for no reason, this is not something a demogorgon would do

[@wheal2825]

Vecna not the mind flayed wat

[@chicken2959]

@@wheal2825 vecna isnt the mind flayer but everything else in the theory makes sense

[@Watermeloncat_040]

@@wheal2825 he kinda is, he can literally control the mind flayer.

[@ebaxfut4078]

@@Watermeloncat_040well he made the mind flayer

[@Watermeloncat_040]

@@ebaxfut4078 oh yeah, I forgot about that. He drew the mindflayer when he was a kid

[@AutisticN1994]

I think the thessylhydra was hinted in season 4. While Eddie, Robin, Nancy, and Steve were in the upside down, there was a scene where the ground was shaking and a huge monster growl that could be heard across miles and miles.

[@corraterria3112]

That would be extremely convincing if the Duffers hadn’t confirmed that Vecna as a full character was created later. That’s just a demogorgon.

[@MovieJunkieOfficial]

It very very clearly is a Demogorgon. Yes Vecna was always the plan, but he didn’t have enough power to get himself through the gates. He used elements of the upside down to gain access via gates. Have you actually watched the show?

[@johnnie2388]

Then who moved the lock then?

[@membles69]

@@johnnie2388 This is a theory: Vecna could perhaps be controlling the demogorgon, or he’s using his powers from the upside down.

[@johnnie2388]

@@membles69 I agree with that theory.

[@INURWALLL]

@@johnnie2388 ✨inconsistent writing ✨

[@tannukashyap8311]

@@membles69 which means he can also distinguish between eleven and will, then why did he kidnap will instead of eleven? or he just used his power to open the lock and could do nothing more than this thus needed help of the demogorgons?

[@evilsharkey8954]

That’s the demogorgon. The first one folded its “petals” tighter, giving it a more human sized head. Vecna’s long arm is on the left, anyway. The clock noises are a hint, though.

[@valou-scaling]

Not even. These clock sounds are just everywhere in the soundtrack of the first season and once again they didn't plan Vecna since the beginning, absolutely not. The show was supposed to be one season (with Will and Steve dying at the end of the season) so they did not plan anything from the start. In the season 2 making of on Netflix they said that they decided to create the mind flayer way after they made season 1, so Vecna was absolutely not around in their minds

[@TheDragonsDogma]

@@valou-scaling These comments are proof that this is how writers get away with awful retcons. Look at everyone trying to "Omg wow amazing foreshadowing!" When in reality the writers hadn't even thought the stuff up yet and lazily plugged it in haphazardly. I love the show enough to forgive said inconsistencies, but let's call it what it is lol.

[@valou-scaling]

@@TheDragonsDogma Ikr ?

[@parkerburr9556]

my friends rewatching this and making me watch it with her and we literally noticed that and chatted about it haha

[@xmsjd]

This is until you realise Vecna hadn’t even been designed yet, leading to the impossibility of the figure being Vecna. The noise still holds ground though as well as the lock.

[@Kromzor]

Its hands are the same size. Vecna's left hand is a giant claw, easy debunk.

[@fruitec]

Rewatching the whole series after szn 4 feels so different. Like now we now so much and why things came to be.

[@ToyaTodorokiDabi]

Vecna sends you to a Memory, And into a trance. Will is taken through a Portal by the Demogorgon

[@KvngGrimm]

I think during the many years the stranger things cast grew up , Vecna was homing in on his powers in the upside down and taking it over until it was time to finally make his move

[@cattoloafs85]

that’s just a Demogorgon with the face closed

[@hoodv1ncecuh176]

Yeah bc vecnas right hand is human

[@alexcosta1695]

Your looking for answers in a shoehorned plot line...don't

[@juliac9279]

I think Vecna had a grand plan in taking Will but keeping him alive, almost as if he wanted Eleven and others to go looking for him and as a result know more about the Upside Down. I do think a demogorgon took Will, but under Vecna’s command/orders and through it’s body Vecna somehow had a psychic link that opened the door.

[@carlos-nm2iq]

He was the demogorgon, from the beginning of the series it was implied that they had telekinetic abilities, and he kidnaps Will instead of killing him for the same reason that xenomorphs kidnap some of their prey, to be able to use them as an incubator

[@Currency1001]

They brought him in season 2 for they included the “clock” noise

[@craigwolfe249]

There's no way they had proper plans for vecna, the way they try to retroactively fit him in is what bugged me the most about season 4. 11s amnesia was just lazy writing trying to fit vecna in with 11.

[@filbao8113]

Man he just popped from nowhere

[@Digitalhallucination22]

The demogorgon can only telekinetically move small objects, like the lock. However, a kidnapping is way too out of pocket for them

[@Brainzz8283]

Another thing is that a demogorgon would run towards will to kill him, however that figure walked slowly just like vecna

[@RickGrimes1266]

This is good theroy but why would vecna go through the gate then go back it doesn't make sense and if it was him he could have fine eleven earlier in the series 🤔

[@shrek2andgoku564]

"Clock noises" as you show me a spinning bike tire making the noise it's supposed to IRL stretch armstrong reach lol

[@aid3nxr_editz]

The beel not the ticking

[@PhilipBarron]

I’d like to think that the “Billy” Billy ran into when he went into the Upside Down in S3 was also a pre-S4 Vecna appearance, with Vecna taking on the form of Billy like with the cemetery scene from S4 when Max gets in her first trance.

[@TimesLongLostOfficial]

Another thing to note is that will was still alive after being in the upside down, therefor it couldnt have been the demogorgon

[@spitsmagoo2446]

I doubt it was vecna, he might have sent one to help him capture Will but right before he gets taken to the upside down you literally hear the sound of a demogorgan

[@haidhaid4447]

Lmao, this isnt vecna, this is the first demogorgon which is smarter and more verstaile then S4 demogorgon

[@johnnie2388]

Then who moved the lock?

[@kermitlaranja]

@@johnnie2388 your mom

[@johnnie2388]

@@kermitlaranja my mom passed away. Don't know how she's relevant to this topic. This next generation is completely lost🤦‍♂️

[@me_sad]

@@johnnie2388 I guess the Season 1 is different to the ones in Season 4. The season 1 is weaker but smarter and stronger. While the ones in Season 4 are literally Demodogs but a human .

[@Joy-Con]

@@johnnie2388 can you only say that line or something, someone already stated this, inconsintant writing.

[@communistguineapig9427]

The "clock sound" is actually part of a song in the score called Over.

[@ILoveLittleChildren]

I think that vecna didn’t appear in first episode. All the upside down creatures share the same mind with vecna. So maybe demogorgon controlled by vecna kidnapped will and left all the work to vecna. We saw demogorgon taking will to the upside down, but we didn’t see who was chasing after him