17 HUGE DETAILS In The STRANGER THINGS 4 Finale + Season 5 Theories!

[@FlicksAndTheCity]

Hey everyone hope you enjoyed the finale of Stranger Things 4! What are your predictions for Season 5? Many thanks to NordVPN for sponsoring this video! Get the exclusive deal here! ► nordvpn.com/Flicks risk-free with Nord's 30-day money-back guarantee! BTW, YT is still being weird about comments on ST things videos, so just be aware there may be a delay in your comment showing up!

[@AmayazumiKitagawa]

I'm absolutely sure time manipulation is going to be a thing in Season 5. I also believe that's how Eleven brought Max back. She just reversed Max's body to a previous state, where she was still (barely) alive. She probably isn't aware of this power but we'll probably get to see her harness it throughout Season 5

[@FlicksAndTheCity]

@@AmayazumiKitagawa I like that theory!

[@rufarojunior]

I was blown away by season four and it’s sad that max is in coma

[@Erin_The_Lotus]

Vecna is her real Fathet tho.. You're close but no cigar

[@maybachyard]

Plot twist: Everything that has happened in the Finale was just in Nancy's head. She is still in Vecna's trance. ST Season 5 will be like the Finale Season of Roseanne... it was all dream. 🤣😂🤣

[@luckytiger3554]

Max is in a coma but she’s not dead yet. Vecna/001 technically “killed” Max. Lucas mentions that her heart stopped for one minute and that’s how the portal opened and why the clock chimed four times. But Eleven somehow saves her. At the hospital Eleven goes into Max’s mind but can’t find her. It’s just empty. In the massacre scene 001 told eleven that the kids are not dead but still in his head. Papa also mentions how 001 consumes the people he kills. My theory is that Max’s consciousness/soul is in his head and if he’s defeated all the captured souls escapes. Since Max’s body is still intact her soul has a place to come back too, while the others can’t be saved because their bodies are completely destroyed.

[@rjproblems]

You are completely right this makes the most sense

[@saraya9255]

This makes the most sense actually. I personally think that when vecna drags max and eleven out of Max's memory. He's basically taking Max's consciousness with him and then that consciousness is what disappeared along with vecna and his "world" when Nancy, Steve and Robin attack his physical body. (Kinda like she got trapped inside that world, contrary to the first time where she ran into the light and then came back) but .

[@vishi95]

poor eddie :(

[@nlntreddy]

Makes ultimate sende

[@framemeframe4733]

Agreed. This theogy is good.

[@katleenbertaux4900]

I feel like Dustin rolling an 11 while playing D&D and losing to vecna in the game was a foreshadowing to eleven not being strong enough. But then Erica rolling an 20 and winning is potentially a foreshadowing of eleven needing the others help since she won't be able to kill him alone. Eleven being the 11 of course and the others Will, Mike, Lucas, Dustin, Nancy, Steve, Robin, Jonathan, Joyce and Hopper needs to be the missing 9.. But since they are 10 I think one of them will die

[@alexburchell1891]

That would be a seriously neat piece of foreshadowing if it turns out to be true.

[@Riya-Mia]

Def will

[@Olivia-yb6rr]

i heard that dustin will be grieving over eddie's death and we will 'see another side to him that we havent seen before'. so maybe he's excluded out of that? unsureee

[@SchuhFlys]

This sounds like it could be a great Easter egg, awesome catch

[@cisco22582]

thats a good one but lets not kill anymore characthers. lets just say 1 is missing or kidnaped lol.

[@Threshermaw23]

so vecna will look like a dragon next time? nancy said in her vision "a giant creature with a gaping mouth" and the drawing done by will...would tie in lovely with the d&d creatures

[@sarahstephanos4594]

It was the mind flayer thing she was talking about like the shadow thing from s2 and the thing one saw in the upside down

[@mariad.1611]

The dragon part actually makes sense. Will’s drawing shown to Mike, shows that they will be fighting together against a dragon!

[@Dino-lemon265]

@@mariajk975 that beautiful spelling

[@Packkilluison]

3 headed dragon like on will painting

[@wadewilson8011]

THE THESSALHYDRA!! I said that in another video. Same explanation. And remember, at the end of season 1 during their DnD game, Will defeated the ThessalHydra with a fireball roll. Where he was captured by the Demogorgon during their first game, he won this time. During the Hellfire Club DnD game in season 4 Dustin rolls an 11 and it wasn't enough to kill Vecna. Erica rolls the 20 and it was enough to destroy Vecna. This is probably foreshadow for how Eleven basically lost to Vecna in S4 finale, and how they'll kill him in season 5. And Nancy saw that creature in her vision exactly how you described. Now that Vecna's physical body has transcended into the Mind Flayer's particles (he's contingency plan). He's going to be even more powerful. And since Henry Creel is obsessed with spiders (an arachnid with eight limbs and eight eyes) it makes sense that the final form of Vecna is the ThessalHydra: an eight headed creature from DnD. Just my prediction theory.

[@Chrissybrit43]

One thing I am certain of, Mike is not the heart, he never has been, it’s always been Will. It’s always been Will trying to keep the group together, lead them into battle through D&D and hold them together outside of the game. Will is the heart. The story began when he was taken, and it will end with him, I think he could have some untapped powers that could equal to or be greater than El’s power, which they can use to work together to defeat Vecna. El can’t win alone.

[@varsha953]

Totally. Mike is farthest from being the heart. Will makes so much more sense.

[@prtdiva]

Facts. Will is the heart. Mike only cares about El then everyone else 🙄

[@retro.x]

And I think 8 will be back to help. The Kali girl.

[@madmax7201]

From what I've seen in season 4, I'm afraid writers of the show aren't as imaginative as you fans are (and as you might think they are). Screen writing wasn't super. But I can stumble upon some great plot ideas here in the comments section. Makes me sad.

[@Gaatjenietsaaan]

He is a wizard also in D&D. Will the wise

[@laniezarro]

I hope they do more with Will. I want to know why he’s still connected to Vecna and what significance he has. Surely Vecna knows that Will is still connected, right? Since the 2nd season with everything that started happening to Will after he escaped the upside down, I’ve been hoping he would get powers or be the hero. I mean come on, out of everyone that got sucked into the upside down in season one, he was the only one to somehow survive. He even survived being possessed in season 2 by the mindflare. I think they’ve put a lot of emphasis on Eleven being the hero, but have the secret weapon in the background; its Will, it has to be! When they play DnD, he is the cleric…now I don’t know much about that game, but from what I looked up, this is the description of that role: “Clerics are skilled in the use of divine magic. Clerics are powerful healers due to the large number of healing and curative magics available to them. With divinely-granted abilities over life or death, they are also able to repel or control undead creatures. Clerics also have specific 'domains' which usually align with the character's alignment... Whether the cleric repels or controls undead is dependent on the cleric's alignment.” I think *alignment* being the key here. He’s been in the back of the team so far. In season 3 & 4 they made Will seem kind of weak emotionally with him being sad about his friends not playing with him, everyone getting into relationships except him, and his feelings for Mike. Even that painting he made for Mike, he put himself way off into the backline of the depicted fight. Maybe the show writers did that on purpose to make Will seem like an unlikely choice to essentially “win the game” for everyone. With DnD being the theme of the show and how much emphasis they’ve put on that game (his disappearance was even told/predicted by the game in the first episode) , it only makes sense for him to finally be put in the frontline and use his power to somehow control and defeat Vecna. The show started with Will being the first one to be targeted by Vecna, so it needs to end with Will fighting him. Those are my thoughts anyway. Side note; If you go back and watch season 1 when Will first sees a demagorgon in the road before he falls off his bike, it didn’t have the flower bulb shaped head demagorgons have…it kinda looked like Vecna. 🧐

[@suzieqpotter]

Plus the lock on the door being unlocked from the outside when demagorgons don’t have the mind abilities

[@angelwingschristin3002]

This needs more upvotes! Great theory :)

[@robyngray6493]

I was wondering why will wasn't one of the 4. Then the "he's still connected to Vecna" came into play. I'm sure Venca is saving him for later to use as a pawn against 11 and crew.

[@Mentalm1dg3t]

doesn’t he play a wizard in dnd?

[@Beastlil251]

I totally agree also when will runs home and something unlocks his front door demagorgons don't unlock doors with their minds. It ate every victim it had contact with. Will was on display in the upside down when they found him in season 1 he wasn't eaten he was taken and had a giant worm thing down his throat like something was taking his life over time.

[@gillesnotard69]

I feel like the 4 victims of Vecna being the Four Horsemen is really close to what we had. - Chrissy was the head cheerleader, in a relationship with the head athlete and popular boy, and Vecna taunted her with her mother, it's not unrealistic to think she had eating disorder, making her a fit for Famine. - Fred was involved in a car accident which killed an other student, Vecna taunted her about him being a murderer, it's not the clearest one but he seems like a liar and a hypocrite to me, toxic behaviour could fit for Pestilence. - Patrick was an athlete who died seconds before making it to Eddy's boat, considering the athletes were at war with the Hellfire Club, he fits War. - Max was tormented and even felt guilty about Billy's death, she even thought she deserved to die, she fits Death.

[@rowni]

That's a really good observation and explanation!!

[@Katia.Espinosa98]

I swear this is brilliant

[@kelceynicole]

woah. this is gooood!

[@keymooney_da_one6090]

i was listening closely to the part where patrick is in the car and im not if this was for sum1 else in the red place thing but right when the camera zooms into his head i could hear a man saying that he was a disgrace

[@mateipresedinte4134]

nice job

[@Verykoolhandle112]

RIP Eddie... Your sacrifice will be missed. “I didn’t run this time...” Your a hero....

[@405Smokesesh]

The duffer brothers said that the demebats can't kill people he might be back😮

[@itslpsstitch]

@@405Smokesesh they literally ate his flesh idk what your talking about

[@JayH2385]

@@itslpsstitch But they also ate some of Steves flesh and i mean he is still alive.

[@coleworld1989]

He also ran to his death for no reason sooo..

[@melon187]

@@405Smokesesh as much as I really want that to happen, they made eddie's sacrifice too big of a deal. It was bound to happen. It's a pattern in every season with new characters

[@glennchaerle5647]

Will's connection to Vecna reminds me of the connection between Harry Potter and Voldemort. Look for Will to play a key role in Season 5 to defeat Vecna. As said in this video, Eleven will need help to defeat Vecna and cannot do it alone. This would also be a great character arc for Will, since he has been a victim instead of a hero throughout the first four seasons.

[@Idk913-est]

I really hope you’re right

[@peahen__07travellers]

Yes even no significant role

[@Shutupppppp]

On god bro 💀

[@lathantate9975]

I definitely think time travel is going to be a thing in season 5. At the end of season 4 volume two Nancy's mom hands her a box with some of her things in it. One of them being her stuffed animals Mr. Bunny. But earlier in the season Nancy explains to Robin how she had given Mr. Bunny to her cousin, meaning Mr. Bunny shouldn't be there unless they somehow ended up going back in time.

[@TheFernandaification]

Woah

[@lauraleiwills]

There was a interview or something i saw where the cast joking “spoiled” that the upside down was the real world. If the real world is the upside down, then it did go back in time and that is why mr. bunny was in the box.

[@cheyayy]

Holy crap

[@bd9328]

Awesome catch 👏

[@epicLoVe4ever]

That was a dog stuffed animal though, not a bunny and she didn’t say a name for it in the bedroom scene.

[@mordaciousfilms]

Will definitely has some significence we don't really know yet. It's why he was initially targeted, why he was targeted AGAIN in S2, and why he remains connected to Vecna even now. I'd love the show to explore his character a bit more. I think Season 3/4 had Will take a backseat to other characters' archs.

[@africanbella28]

I definitely agree with you!!! I would love to see the Vecna/Will dynamic in season 5 because that would be an amazing storyline!!!

[@vianelig]

Yes there is a huge connection I hope to see in season 5 between Will / Vecna. He feels vecna, he drew the painting, he is the one went to the upside down and came back and how he feels him. For some reason I think Will might die at the end for some sort of sacrifice to save his friends since ever since he came back he felt as if he doesn’t belong. Could be wrong i hope I am cause I enjoy Will. But his emotions throughout this season 4 says a lot.

[@Ice-Cold-14]

They are to worried validating everyones opinion that will is gay so his character development is gone out the window.

[@audreyadams5657]

@@africanbella28 I think we will get that dynamic because the Duffers have said that Will will be a main focus of s5 and Jamie Campbell Bower has teased some potential history with Will and Vecna, which we kind of saw at the end of s4.

[@buono963]

YESSSS can't wait to see more of Will♥️

[@owoAngiie]

Will isn't embarrassed to tell Mike he made the painting, he's in love with him; so he's worried. So, since Mike wanted advice to help El, Will portrayed his emotions to have El's name, when in reality, he was talking about his own feelings. Not El's.

[@dawnfry2797]

Yea,, they kinda played it like Will would actually be telling Mike how he felt about him.. So I totally agree,,, He did tell Mike,,, But but using El’s name

[@JordanfromOhio]

@Nielle Monteiro that makes no sense. Usually the simplest explanation it the best one.

[@no-be6id]

@@dawnfry2797 Woah so will is gay ?

[@StressedSugarcane]

@@no-be6id there were hints of this before, as he is the only one who didn't fall for max when she showed up, he talks about how he's annoyed they're all so hung up on their girlfriends "today a day free of girls" and a big one being how at the start of S4 when a girl attempts to flirt with him in class he pushes her away and always seems really uncomfortable when the subject of girlfriends or him getting one comes up and again the whole mike thing

[@babyfood9537]

@@no-be6id obviously

[@angelafahlenkamp9311]

All I known is that I think I'll bawl my eyes out in season 5 when they all read Max's letters she wrote before Vecna took her 😥

[@Samuel27x]

I forgot about her letters 😢…

[@fame-official]

Please, can you remind me about what she wrote?

[@Katherine-ep3ms]

Honestly I think the Duffer Brothers are absolutely genius, and amazing storytellers! I can’t wait for season five and all their future projects!

[@4FOXX]

who is duffer brothers i dont iunderstand

[@Genesisrequiem]

Only the writers of the show 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@mustafazubair4389]

@@4FOXX seriously??

[@Pstephen]

Normally I'd be wary of this kind of comment, but you're right.

[@bffs4eva416]

@@4FOXX there the writers of the show

[@jpfilms2015]

Eddies death was so sad and I think they made it too obvious he was gonna die. Also I think the way he died was obviously sad and tragic but a little bit silly. He didn’t have to go out and buy more time cause the bats were still trying to break in and thought him and Dustin were still inside. Hopefully next season they actually show the other characters mourning him cause it was literally just Dustin and Mike didn’t seem to care at all. Don’t get me wrong I loved the season but Eddies death was too much 🙁

[@melarie205]

exactly. they took care of him the whole season yet none of them reacted to his death. it didn’t give any kind of closure:(

[@alexanpho4531]

What he did wasn’t actually silly. If Eddie had of went back with Dustin those creatures would have come to the real world. It’s not like they had the power to close that opening. So Eddie distracted them from finding it and sent them another direction.

[@jpfilms2015]

@@alexanpho4531 yes that is true sorry but the fact that he could’ve kept running but just fought them upset me a bit 😕

[@devinmoore1352]

Yes! I absolutely couldnt stand after Eddie died and no one in the crew seemed to care besides Dustin! I get that Dustin looked up to him and was probably the closest to him, but he left an impact on everyone regardless of how much they knew him or not. Just wish he had a little bit more closure on his death with the rest of the group mourning him

[@JohnZeeX]

@@alexanpho4531 agreed. If he’d gone through the portal, they’d have followed. And since Vecna was weakened when Joyce and Hopper killed the critters in Russia, having a flood of them show up in Hawkins would have strengthened him. So Eddie was even more of a hero than he knew. On a side note, I gave my Warlock some new strings and officially named it Eddie after scene. Most. Metal. Ever.

[@jayel1471]

I think Will was born with powers naturally- just like 001 but they've been locked all this time. Vecna knew he had powers and that's why he brought him to the upside down, El turned him down so he needed a new apprentice.

[@CL-eu7ye]

But Will is too timid & plagued with anxiety & indecision .. will be interesting if he really “comes out,” no pun intended, in S5. If so, Jonathan’s key role as supportive big brother will undoubtably play a role in Will’s bravery (sacrifice?)

[@babyfood9537]

why do you think will has powers

[@mutotoru]

@@CL-eu7ye a sacrifice would made so much sense. he might need a trigger, just like eleven needed a strong trigger to be able to properly use her powers (shame, vengeance, anger mostly) and Henry too, as he gained consciousness of his powers after finding the black widows. the duffers said that he will be essential in s5, and maybe the amount of fear, shame and depression triggered with a sacrifice or death of someone he loves, will help gain some sort of innate power that'll help El

[@mutotoru]

@@babyfood9537 it actually makes sense as a theory! so far we know that no one has figured how Henry got his powers, and there might be people with innate powers out there that are clueless about it. Plus, will's and vecna link is yet to be explained completely. We knows that will was able to survive a whole week in the upside down without a scratch while everyone else has been attacked almost immediately. And he's been possessed by the mind flayer and survived that too. He's not just lucky. Vecna said he was planning to conquer the world with el, it wouldn't be absurd if he's seen power in will and he was "grooming" him. edit: typos

[@debacofzomb9889]

Maybe they're related 🤪

[@jimbobeire]

Brenner never explained how he knew that Henry ' consumed ' his victims. He must have found out something about how Henry took his mother and sister, or perhaps he had previously killed another one of Brenner's prisoners, leading to Brenner putting that thing in his neck.

[@DavidStroudJLDRCBTeach22]

I think Will is going to end up being the next Vecna. He doesn't fit in anymore (it's been consistent theme throughout this season); I also think it is an interesting note how often Will talks about wanting to live in the past, always wishing for the way things used to be. He even says to Mike how he wishes they could continue to just play D&D forever. which has also been consistent with Will throughout the series. That may be the way the Duffers end the story, with Will disappearing into the Upside Down and El closing the gate behind him, just like she did to Vecna originally. In the scene where Will is telling Mike that Vecna is still alive, there is definitive line drawn highlighted by the sunlight shining through the window splitting the room in two. Will's side is trashed and Mike's side is clean and orderly (even the couch is destroyed on Will's side and not on Mike's) representing the two worlds in play. Ironically, the light is shining on Will not Mike, which makes me think of him as being the Chosen one by Vecna.

[@MKJR_]

Will becoming evil and having a show down with his sister, El. That would be epic.

[@meowmeow1stgen668]

I’ve thought this season mike will die. If Will ends up becoming the next Vecna or somehow ends up working with him and kills Mike, I think that would be well tip 11 over the edge so that she can finally have the vengeance she needs to conquer him

[@dinaaltum1514]

I honestly hope that happens

[@kellyalexi5170]

I don't think Will is going to be evil. He's a selfless boy and love with his whole being. Vecna doesn't even know what love is. While there are obviously parallel between Vecna and Will, maybe Will is going to be a key to defeat Vecna.

[@BIGGOODBOY]

Interesting theory but a far stretch. Will wasn’t the chosen one he was supposed to be dead in season 1

[@Bluhaj]

I think Eddie might come back as Kas (a D&D character). This is because Kas is a vampire and Eddie was killed by bats. He also had an iconic shield and sword, Eddies’s favourite weapon was his spiked shield. Eventually Kas, who was made Vecna’s general, betrays him. Perhaps that is Eddies last move against Vecna as well…

[@elizzysworldthegarcias32590]

I don’t know hope so that’ll be so cool

[@jasonw222]

lol

[@daddy-warfunk1956]

Steve was mauled by the bats too and Will's drawing had Mike leading the charge with a sword and shield... just sayin'

[@valabadeer4155]

@@daddy-warfunk1956 If I'm not mistaken Kas died in his human form to resurrect as a vampire, Steve did not died. The Duffer brothers said that Eddie HAD to die in this season, no question so... I'm thinking he'll come back as Kas. I also find very weird that Iron maiden's mascot is called Eddie. Eddie is an undead. I don't think this is just coincidence tbh

[@Marianafxfigueira]

Exaclty what I ve been saying. 100% support you!!! I really hope you are right. Would be amazing

[@ericsesame6321]

Will's character was probably written to be purposely placed with Jonathan, Mike, Argyle, and El for Season 4. It occurred to me that Will hasn't come in contact with Vecna yet. Vecna's character has always existed unbeknownst to us, so he was probably with him the entire time in Season 1. If I'm not mistaken, Will was in the Upside Down (UD) for about a week. I have no doubt that Will could have survived the UD on his own, but that's highly unlikely. It possibly means that Vecna purposely kept Will alive to send him back to Hawkins to be some sort of bridge between Hawkins and the UD or as a subtle messenger to El. Also, have you noticed that Will scratches the back of his neck when he senses the UD? I am not saying that an electronic device is lodged in Will's neck, but Henry* (Vecna) had one lodged in his at the lab that El removed. From my understanding, it was meant to suppress Henry's* powers (Thanks El! 😂), so with that logic I wonder if something similar would exist in the UD that would be able to control Will or give Vecna the ability to control him. It would be interesting to see Will and Vecna's first on-screen appearance together. I wouldn't be surprised if Will was the ultimate sacrifice to destroy Vecna instead of El. I understand that it all started with El, but from our perspective as viewers, it started with Will's disappearance. My mind has gone in all sorts of directions after watching Season 4. I started to think at the end of Vol. 2 that Vecna took over Will's body! 😰 EDIT: Thank you for your correction about Peter versus Henry. I replaced the name with the correct name, Henry, and added an asterisk as a symbol for the correction. How is it that I can get Vecna and Argyle right, but not Henry? 😜

[@lgierl2573]

It would make sense why he can only take teenagers just like Papa (Dr. Brenner) did. There is often that theory in science fiction that children possess different brain power and why they make “good test subjects” so Vecna must have realized that eventually too.

[@danae7293]

Concerning how will survived that long in the upside down, i saw a theory refer to how he was spending his whole time singing “should i stay or should i go” which was clearly his favorite song that Jonathan introduced him to. And considering how music is a huge part in escaping the upside down it could be the reason why vecna wasn’t able to get to him that easily.

[@Emily54104]

His name is Henry 😭 not Peter

[@siennarose3239]

Also kinda um related to all that but I, pretty sure will is gay and has a crush on mike. I’m not sure if everyone knows this but yh, it hints that he is gay in season 2 where Lucas and mike are discussing they’re girlfriends and then mike says to will it’s not my fault you dint like girls. Also you can see how will looks at mike

[@CrowleysCruelSummer]

Will doesn’t scratch the back of his neck. He just touches it.

[@StarryDynamo88]

So rewatching S1-E1 , I noticed when Will is at the house in the beginning trying to call out , the chain lock on the door is taken off slowly by what I’d assume is mind power . So the demaGorgon didn’t take Will , Vecna did. Why would the demaGorgon who can go through walls and so on slowly take off a door chain. Also as others mention, there is a grand father chime when Will crashes his bike running away after seeing a tall figure. So Vecna took Will in the beginning not the demaGorgon imo.

[@akathunder7309]

they intially weren’t gonna kill him but eddie himself said that he wasn’t worthy to play the part of eddie so they killed him off…

[@amazinggraceee3975]

its spelt demogorgon

[@amazinggraceee3975]

@@akathunder7309 what.. they were talking ab will what does eddie have to do with this

[@legofun211]

Good theory especially since there was no blood to draw the demigorgon to Will in the first place.

[@wendigo374]

that just makes me wonder what vecna did to him

[@amanms1999]

This finale really had an Empire Strikes Back vibe, especially with ending where the villains win and the heroes are at their weakest spot. Luke undergoing training with Yoda similar to the whole Project Nina thing (even the scene where Eleven lifts that chamber totally parallels Luke trying to lift the X-wing). Luke leaving the training to face Vader despite Yoda warning that he's not ready yet, just like how Eleven ran off to face Vecna despite Brenner claiming that she's not ready yet, only for Luke/Eleven to face defeat under Vader/Vecna. It ends with Han Solo being captured by the Empire and frozen in Carbonite, kinda like how ST ends with Max in a coma. Even their story structures are kinda similar, with the heroes being separated for the majority of the story (Luke/Eleven undergoing training while Han & Leia/the Hawkins gang are fighting the Empire/Vecna)

[@BassLineProductionsI]

Star wars is based on the great hero myth, Joseph Campbell (the hero with 1000 faces). More stories follow this structure than can be named at this point, I still enjoy the retelling but it has been told many ways

[@jeambeam3173]

Heavy Star Wars and Lord of the Rings vibes which they had to know what they're doing. In Episode 8 the scene of everyone gearing up reminded me heavily of Fellowship of the Ring when Boromir was training the Hobbits

[@KanjoNights]

Well thought out and worded. I never stopped to consider the similarities between ST4 and Empire Strikes Back. Very interesting

[@8910brian]

Even Murry states " I have a bad feeling about this" as they drive back into the prison and no guards are present. LOL totally Star Wars

[@Sweeptheleg83]

Was thinking the same thing. Lot of Empire strikes back vibes. I said the same thing to my GF while we were watching that episode.

[@afrowjoe000]

Vecna didn’t trap Max in the Snow Ball memory, she intentionally thought of it as a happy memory to buy time since it’d be harder for vecna to corrupt.

[@JM-zo5me]

Right, it was an Eternal Sunshine of a Spotless Mind type situation.

[@Whidd0w1]

Could that mean Eddie comes back lol

[@TappersTay]

@@Whidd0w1 no. He's dead lol

[@thomaswilliams9582]

I think he trapped her there by corroding the memory.

[@thegirlnextdoor7220]

yeah she thought he could only get into her worst memories and not the good ones

[@bggsz4]

As people have pointed out, it's all extremely connected; Season 4, Vol2 is 4 hours long, the group is split in 4 teams throughout most of the season, 4 gates are opened, the clock chimes 4 times, 4 victims of Vecna

[@joeysustello]

season 3 has the 4chimes of the clock in the background of a couple episodes

[@faciajordan1660]

And they had a 4 phase plan

[@blizz2795]

@bggsz4 The Four Horsemen of The Apocalypse?

[@rockydeloba2573]

I think Vecna is going to live through Will, I do believe Will have some type of powers he doesn’t know about, but Vecna knows because he came for him more than once and Will also said he can still feel him.

[@jimbobeire]

Vecna said he wanted to transcend his human form. The Mind Flayer is his 'spider'. I think when a gigantic Mind Flayer comes through the gate in the middle of town, it won't just be doing Vecna's bidding, I think it will actually be Vecna's new vessel. The 'predator god' he always spoke of being.

[@colleenwilliams776]

straight thlngs 5

[@DumbldorWizzard]

Wills gonna die

[@briobrandon911]

These kids were acting for their life man!! The storyline merging were so well done!

[@FupaDoncic]

Their future’s are bright.

[@daddy-warfunk1956]

Kind of surprised that one of the biggest pieces of foreshadowing wasn't even mentioned They did the flashback several times to El and Kali in the Rainbow room. The significance of that scene wasn't just because it's a strong memory that El had of her mother, it was also the reminder that Kali is still out there. I find it hard to believe that they would establish a character like Kali that had such a strong impact on El, and then just forget about her. I don't think they did and I think she'll back.

[@bleachboy2644]

Hardly anyone liked it thats why it got dropped

[@soggycookie345]

Who is kali?

[@shanegriffiths3441]

Nah kali is lame

[@dreadedkittencrow]

I’m positive Kali will be back I also think papa raised them as the ultimate weapon well mainly El

[@robyngray6493]

I'm with you on this. Kali blows in and right back out? Nah, she's gonna be brought back for some hell raising in 5. Plus, it does make you wonder if any other numbers/kids escaped and if they will be showing up in 5.

[@georgiakhattar7977]

Since el had the power to loosen the vines when they were gripping her and her friends, I feel like she also has the ability to utilise one's own army against him, she may be able to control the mind flayer and the demogorgans herself, as 1 said they were originally just creatures existing on their own- until one took control of them. What's stopping el from having the same abilities?

[@ndongengone7284]

Thanks to telekinesis, she can also do it, there is nothing exceptional there. Even so, it's tempting to think it was more of a plant connection, rather than telekinetic manipulation. But as I mentioned above, it can also be explained simply by the fact that she was detaching the plants by telekinesis, especially since she is in a phase where she is sharpening the potential of her telekisic power of more and more.

[@ndongengone7284]

However, where I agree with you is that at some point, for me, the only way to permanently defeat Vecna ​​will be through the Mind Flayer's Dark Particles. Eleven will have found a way to disconnect him from that source so he can return to his original state somehow. This implies that she will have to learn to enter into symbiosis with this source just as 001 was able to do. I really don't see any other solution to defeat him. At some point, it's all going to come down to hive mind control. That's why I don't reject your idea of ​​her controlling the plants by symbiotic connection, I say however that it's still too early to affirm it because it can also be explained by the telekinetic manipulation with a passing El through a phase where it sharpens its potential. But yes, I see El taking control of the hive and sacrificing herself by staying permanently in the upside down world in order to keep it under control or she will simply die killing all the creatures that will be connected to the spirit from the hive.

[@joseoku6946]

She did not free the rest. It was because of the flamethrower from Hopper's side

[@StelsunNwadinma]

That’s true, but we also learn that each of the kids experimented on have their own unique abilities, with one being able to take/absorb your life force and make it his own. And El/11 being able to create and close gates as we’ve seen before, and as Vecna/1 said that he sought her power.

[@anorsegoddess9797]

​@@joseoku6946 yes they hate fire

[@shelbygparschauer690]

Has anyone noticed how Mike brings Eleven wildflowers from Hawkins in the first episode of season 4 because he remembers how much she loves them, and then we end season 4 with a scene of the main characters standing on a hill of dying wildflowers watching smoke and red lightning rising from the cracks in Hawkins? Vecna is literally coming for everything she loves, even the little things like wildflowers!

[@CreativeSoul101]

Or it's a reference for eleven dying in season five. I'm not one of those theorist when it comes to shows but I think it would be odd if she survived

[@swjohan-8119]

@@CreativeSoul101she won’t die tbh, like mike and will was talking at the end of season 4 where they was saying that eleven didn’t look happy she lost against one/vecna and will said she had a second chance to beat him so I think she(eleven) and some other like number 8 (girl from season 2) and will might be the superheroes this upcoming season 5, 11+8+1= 20 that exact 20 Erica beat vecna on the dnd game, and if my theory can be right will might be the one that dies but idk he always looks like the down character he has to step up and be in the frontline this upcoming season 5 to be the hero save them since he was the very first one to be interacted with vecna and he might some type of magic powers he doesn’t know about because on how he is a wizard in the dnd game and it links very well to irl like with the hellfire club dnd with vecna, and also he saw him in the first episode of season 1 when he was in the bike and saw this creature that didnt look like a demogorgon cuz it didnt have the flower head mouth shape but just a normal head so it might of been the creature vecna/one.

[@scandisnowgirl3696]

One thing I've been thinking about is if Vecna can manipulate the particles to become the mind flayer....shouldn't Eleven be able to ALSO manipulate the particles as well?

[@kimmiebardot6213]

Yes. I was even wondering if she would be able to close that rip he created with the earthquake. It would take her a while because it was so huge, but it could be done o think.

[@BlessYourSpawn]

In theory yes doctor brena said that they had similar "gifts" towards each other

[@botmonmon6089]

Unless vecna didnt really do it, and the mindflayer chose the form to bond with vecna.

[@blue_intentions]

Ooooh great insight

[@jakecrowley7084]

I honestly feel like that’s the most obvious theory going around but you know this show mixes it up so there’s no way it’s as cliche as el takes control of the upside down because if you remember she used her powers to make the vines holding her let go so I agree with your theory

[@wadewilson8011]

This is why your channel is BY FAR TOP TIER! You actually pay attention to details better than any other KZbinrs. That's includes: Emergency Awesome, ScreenRant, Heavy Spoilers, Looper, Collider, Watch Mojo, What Culture, you have them all beat! Finally someone who not only gets what happened, but thoroughly explains it too. I especially love The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse reference. No one else caught on to that.

[@FlicksAndTheCity]

Thank you so much for your kind words and it's great to know you appreciate the extra effort we make to find as many details and thing you might have missed! :)

[@juniorsigala5028]

What bout new rockstars?

[@melvinloyalist6758]

What about the droid attack on the Wookiees?

[@Hays1423]

I like your theory about going back in time. Nancy mentioning the upside down is stuck the day Will disappeared might help them form a plan. Vecna's victims being consumed in his memory might signal that they may come back. Nancy and Eleven have some insight into Henry's mind, so hopefully, that will help figure out a way to defeat him. It will be interesting to see all the main characters working together to save Hawkins.

[@aseemsharan]

Would be a sad ending.

[@ariannalake9466]

Vecna references to clocks, the black widows have hourglasses, the back to the future reference-

[@meachala]

In season 1 before will gets taken the boys noted how Will sacrificed himself (his wizard character) to help the others win-and were a bit upset and confused by it saying he didn’t really have to do that. They down-played and weakened Will the last 2 seasons and I believe Will is going to ultimately end up sacrificing himself to save the others and the world. He was really struggling to accept their current reality and idea of growing up and growing apart as they enter new relationships and new chapters of their lives. Perhaps Will sees sacrificing himself as a win-win bc he gets to be in the time period when he was most happy and it helps to save everyone and everything. I think it’s apparent some sort of power or phenomenon is going on w him and being they weakened his character and role so much it may be bc he will become powerfully influential in bringing the series to a close. I wonder if he could sacrifice himself by staying there in that happy time period and control it by keeping it peaceful so it doesn’t destroy the real world and/or stay in contact w his friends allowing them to safely enter and exit the upside down at will. Idk just a thought or 2

[@meachala]

@@ack3245-w3w thank you…. Though it was just a theory of mine. ☺️

[@akmixh]

In episode 1 of season 4, during the first game of D&D, it was mentioned that to defeat Vecna in the game they needed to roll a 19. And this is where I think 8 (El's friend from season 2) will come back. Why? 11 + 8 = 19. Also there was not a proper farewell from each other so this is where I think she'll come to help 11 and possibly the other kids that may have been detained in the Hawkins lab.

[@amberwilson7801]

I agree!I've been thinking she will come back to help 11 as well.They've shown no other further interaction from 11 with any other "family" members accept for 8& Vecna.

[@ayeshahabib7037]

To add to that 11+8+1 equals 20 maybe vecna might kill himself or turn good and kill another villain if there is

[@martinalbertomoraleslopez3786]

Also, Vecna was killed by a 20 on that game. Nine, from Stranger Things: Into the fire, is a pyromancer, and the things from the Upside Down are no very happy when things get hot or in fire. She has a twin (referred also as 9.5) with no powers. Also on that comic appears Three, who can manipulate emotions, and Kali, (Eight) from season 2 who is an illusionist. Maybe those are going to take a role in season 5, with Three and Eight doing some cover for the Nat 20 that's going to be the combined attack of Eleven an Nine. But too much speculation.

[@rachelsutton7180]

Brilliant!!!

[@Faith__1989]

Wait but didn't Vecna kill all the hawkins lab kids ?

[@avismoon]

Is it just me or Will gives me strong Harry Potter vibes! Harry could also feel what Voldemort felt but Voldemort didn't know this and it played to Harry's advantage. Maybe something similar might happen here where Will can see Vecna's plan and use it to their advantage.

[@arihanavaldez]

I thought the same thing in Dear Billy when Max gains the strength to escape the tendrils by remembering the happy memories made with her friends.

[@dhammdeepbhagatdd]

Yes Will looks like Harry Potter!!

[@11tasty_lejindary94]

Yes i thought the same

[@weekendwarriorprospecting817]

Big difference: Harry Potter didn't want Ron hanging out the back of him. 😂😂

[@Scoutboy13]

I agree with this but I kind of think it’s switched I kind of think it’s Vecna that’s in control and knows about it and Will doesn’t really.

[@josamaroo]

It's obvious that Will was lying about Eleven asking him to make the painting for Mike because after he explains its meaning, Will is shown looking out the window and crying because he realized he can't tell Mike his true feelings and the real intentions behind the painting. Plus Will was ashamed about lying to Mike because he called out Eleven for lying to Mike about several things when Mike arrived in California and now he's doing the same thing to Mike. Obviously a lot of people are questioning Will's true feelings for Mike and the possibility that he's struggling to come to terms with his own sexuality and some perceive this as Will being gay and he was crying because he's scared to reveal the truth to Mike. There's also something with the way Jonathan was looking at Will through the rearview mirror almost like he realized that Will is hiding something and Jonathan later told Will that they need to talk more and Will can tell him anything as they were getting the pizza dough freezer ready for Eleven.

[@apurbasamanta8060]

finally !! someone pointes this out !! thank you.... I was also thinking the same thing, Will might turn out to be a Gay character...

[@stevendavis-brewster4000]

In season 3 mike tells will “It’s not my fault you don’t like girls”

[@m.krull1945]

Yeeep

[@artbystevebatty571]

I think will loves Mike but is too scared to say that's why he was upset and what he said to Mike about eleven is what he actually feels about Mike deffo

[@dariusalexandru7479]

Mike is known to be queer from first season of the series, tho. So perhaps it's not really that he struggles with his sexuality

[@ianparks2653]

I think that Will saw Mikes death, when Vecna/1 showed Max/El which is why he told Mike that Vecna wanted to take everything from them. To Will, Mike is his everything (see way back to season 1)

[@encognitusmaximus7598]

It's also interesting that Vecna showed Nancy things that came to pass. How did he know what was going to happen and be able to mentally show exactly what happened. He showed her the town he split bc of the gates. This might not be the first time he's done this. Could there be more to the shadow cloud and it's abilities?

[@lordvika2526]

I think Vecna was showing Nancy what he visioned his plan would look like if he did win. You know like how people envision what the things they want to do looks like. Even though it hasn't happened yet.

[@ipukeglitter435]

If you look up Vecna it says he possesses hidden knowledge he is a dark wizard.

[@snerdterguson]

As of right now, it hasn't gone as he showed Nancy. Remember, she said she saw her Mother, Holly and Mike dead. I'm wondering if maybe the fact Max was brought back by Eleven had an impact on the fallout. Maybe her surviving lessened the impact and part of the final season will be Vecna trying to finish off Max.

[@molecularminds1207]

Maybe a multiverse

[@laurenrobson46]

Maybe time travel. He knew it would happen because he made it happen already. Planned everything out ahead of time. That's how he knew the group's plan

[@Kath0mp50n]

Someone talked about Eddie not being dead and was turned by the bats into a “vampire”. Funny how his name is Eddie Munson and on The Munsters (old tv show) Eddie Munster was a vampire

[@mikaelaalmeida3498]

Looked like that scene from Batman

[@Violet-Lily]

Wait....you mean Eddie could come back even hotter? *swoon* 😊😊

[@LisaMariavanHarmelen]

They better give my boy Will some happiness. That sweetheart has been through so much 💔

[@Vapy590]

Somehow I think they have other plans for him, I think he is going to be connected to the upside down side again, sadly his death. Eddie's death rattle sound bit like Wills.

[@noogdagamer7898]

Will's character is quite similar to Vecna's childhood... He's also sidelined by his colleagues and his friends similar to vecna who wasn't given much attention by his Family... He also loves to draw similar to Vecna... He drew similar drawing of the spider which Vecna drew into his childhood....

[@katigatewood8532]

He drew that picture because that’s what he was seeing though.

[@SpeciaListWasTaken]

Vecna is trying to make 'Will' like him, He becomes like him with powers but his friends use good memories to bring him back and use his powers against vecna

[@chrisford1116]

Did you notice this?! In Episode 8, there is a strangely synthesized version of the Journey song "Separate Ways/Worlds Apart," which is deliciously appropriate because it's a great song that was popular around that time, but it plays at the exact moment the gang all go their *separate ways* to execute the plan that takes them *worlds apart.* But it gets better. A student of Journey (which I am. BTW, I graduated high school in 1986, the year that this story takes place.) would notice that they conspicuously omitted the famous song lyric "break those chains that bind you." They skipped right over it and it felt weird. Why did they do that?! I asked myself at the time, storing it away in my mind. Now I get it! Guess what! It came back around, in Episode 9! In Max's nightmare version of her would-be happy memory, of last season's school dance; some music suddenly starts up. It's The police, performing "Every Breath You take," (another great song that was popular at that time). But which Police lyric did the Duffers choose to emphasize? "Every Bond You Break." Remember their pinpointed Journey lyric? First, "Break those chains that bind you," then "Every bond you break." See the connection? I am picturing the physical bonds (creeping vines) of Vecna's lair, but more so, the psychic bonds between him and his victims, which Eleven and her gang (and even Hopper and Joyce) - all together - combine to "break." Eleven, with the help of her friends, even manages to "break the bonds" both physical and emotional with Papa and her crippling memories from the lab, while Hopper and Joyce are able to "break" the physical bonds of wrongful incarceration in a Siberian gulag. So much respect to the Duffer Brothers who put such richness into their work that they go this deep to provide so many hidden clues, easter eggs and in-jokes. Hat's off, gentlemen!

[@happycatyoutube]

I've been watching the entire series back over the last few days, and I've noticed they've put in a few time related songs here and there, and they play time after time during the prom scenes as well. The lyrics is so on the nose for it as well 😁

[@nicacanilang4060]

This is lit!!!!

[@dianebk2003]

"Every Breath You Take" by the Police is a song about a stalker. It's beautiful until you listen to the lyrics. (Lead singer) Sting even said that it was "a nasty little song about jealousy and surveillance and ownership", and that he was amused by people using it as their wedding song. You're describing "Wrapped Around Your Finger", which Sting said is a "spiteful" song about turning the tables on someone who had had all the power, but wasn't in charge anymore. Both songs could apply I guess, but in different ways.

[@KaiWills]

I think that Vecna is going to kill Mike. I originally didn't think that there would be foreshadowing from Season 1 but thinking back on it, Nancy's vision of a giant creature 'with a gaping mouth' perfectly matches the dragon we see in Will's pictures. The issue is that in one of the season 1 pictures, we see one of the DnD characters being eaten by the dragon - the description able to be recognised as having 'a blue tunic with a belt'. Now looking at Will's latest picture, we see that Mike's character is the only one to have a blue tunic and a belt. Maybe Will is able to see the future, as in he is special like El and Henry, and the reason Vecna was able to show Nancy the visions was because he consumed Will's power from when the Mind Flayer attached to him. This would also be logical, as Vecna can't seem to defeat El when she's got the Mike by her side, her heart. What if Will is having a sort of precognition moment when he tells Mike that he is the heart of the group? Will can sense what the Mind Flayer and Vecna are thinking, how they are thinking, so what if Vecna is coming to the conclusion that Mike is the heart, the weakness he has to attack to break the group, especially El. Will said that now he's in Hawkins, he can feel the thoughts again but what if they never went away? El was able to protect Max from the pizzeria so the powers extend passed Hawkins. What if because Will was so far away from Hawkins, Vecna's feelings were still there but weak enough for Will to think they were his own thoughts. He created the painting because that is what is going to happen, they're going to have to fight Vecna/Mind Flayer/Dragon-shaped beast together in person? This, then ends with Mike getting eaten.

[@BCBrownBooks]

So, there are so many fun theories about Season 5. The Duffers are geniuses to bridge nostalgia, fantasy & reality, coming-of-age storytelling, and so so so many horror tropes & call-backs! Here are my thoughts: 1. We can't ignore the time travel references throughout the series so far: the vision, the clock references, BTTF references/theories, El experiencing memories (essentially history) firsthand with her mom & Billy & even her own memories, and the time-lag between Season 4 Upside Down & Season 4 Hawkins. That two specific time-travel potentialities focus on Nancy (the Vecna-given vision & the Upside Down time-delay with her belongings specifically noting the 3-year difference) my be irrelevant but not much about the Duffers' writing has been irrelevant so... 2. While El is set up to be the "ultimate hero" of the series, it can't be ignored that Will is the critical to the story & still connected to Vecna & the Upside Down. In addition to his party role as the Cleric, a D&D class with the ability to heal & control/destroy the Undead, must hold additional value. Especially with the reminder that Mike is the "heart" of the group, the Paladin who has ultimate faith or "heart." Such a specific reference to Mike's D&D class, while key to helping El escape Vecna's clutches through his love for her, must mean further references to the others' D&D classes is coming. 3. In reference to D&D roles & stories, Eddie's heroism & so many amazing D&D Easter Eggs in reference to Kas, Vecna's vampire traitorous general, must come into play in Season 5. While, personally, I'm not thrilled with Eddie's heroic-despite-the-town's-ready-vilification-of-him character arc being tainted by becoming a villain (to become Vecna's undead general) even momentarily is crappy to me, there are too many references to Kas in Season 4 to ignore that somehow Kas will come into play in Season 5. There is also the tie-in that his character is named Eddie Munson & "Eddie Munster" is a famous TV vampire predating the 80s. Then there is also the Lost Boys' reference, which is a nod to more vampires. 4. But jumping back to Will's role outside of the character class reference is Joyce's mention of how Will is "sensitive" when explaining to Hopper why Will is different, that something was wrong, & that he hadn't just run away. "Sensitive" is exactly how Henry is described by his father, Victor Creel. Something about that sensitivity could be what ties Will & Vecna together, why Will was able to elude Vecna in Season 1 & Vecna able to use Will in Season 2. 5. My 5th theory ties into my 4th theory. In Season 1, a grandfather clock chimes when Will falls off his bike & we see a figure without the "flower" shaped head of the Demogorgon chasing Will. In addition, when Will is hiding in the house, the chain lock on the door slides back slowly with what looks a lot like El's mind power displayed in Season 2 when she returns to Hawkins to save the group from the demodogs at the Byer's house. Vecna has the same basic powers that El does, including the ability to move a chain lock with his mind, so it indicates that Will was taken by Vecna himself & not by he Demogorgon who does not have mind powers but operates on brute strength and speed. 6. I also feel that something more has to happen with Eight. Her introduction in Season 2 did a couple of things: a) Confirming that Eleven wasn't the 11th time Papa tried to get a kid with abilities that survived, creating a lineage that led back to One/Henry/Vecna, b) introducing the foreshadowing to Henry's spiders/Mind Flayer with Eight's demonstration of ability the first time El meets her, & c) Getting El to realize that home was in Hawkins with Hopper & the others. But leaving her storyline open-ended seems wasteful for the Duffers. My absolute theory here comes from Eddie saying that to defeat Vecna the party must role a 19. 11 + 8 happens to = 19, which could be how they plan to both clean up the loose end & use that 19 reference? 7. There is definitely something more going on with Argyle & the mushrooms, perhaps with the lucid dreaming/hallucinogenic properties & also Argyle's philosophical nature & astute psychological insights. We're sure to see the mushrooms come into play more in Season 5 with Argyle's assistance, perhaps in a sensory depravation tank combined with hallucinogenic, which is what led El to have her abilities (through her then-pregnant mother undergoing that same process), that could enhance El's abilities? 8. I do feel that there is something to there being, essentially, 11 ppl (Eleven, Will, Mike, Lucas, Dustin, Nancy, Steve, Jonathan, Joyce and Hopper PLUS Henry/One/Vecna who has always been there in the form of the Hive Mind) that started the series & seems to hold some significance. But it comes at the exclusion of Max who is a party member & introduced immediately upon Season 2 with some character weight in that season & featured heavily in Season 3 and now 4, in addition to Robin who has provided significant support since Season 3 introduction. So the theory of the main character storyline being tied to the #11 feels right but doesn't yet add up into a workable theory for me yet. 9. Vecna is declared the hardest villain in D&D to defeat, but that's inaccurate; it's Borys. With Will's present to Mike being the group fighting a 3-headed dragon in the painting, I definitely feel like we're in for Season 5 to have a dragon of some sort in it. Exactly how it ties in with Vecna, I'm not sure, except it could be theorized that since Henry only shaped the particles in the untouched Upside Down (which, btw, was uncorrupted by violence & evil at the time El shoved him into it & he then explored it) that there is something else there larger & more dangerous than Vecna that, technically, Will would be connected to via his connection to the Upside Down through Vecna. Yeah, so those are my thoughts & theories. I just have a couple. 😉

[@blizz2795]

Wow! I'm definitely saving this so I can compare this once season 5 is out and watched. Thanks for your thoughts!

[@bradhouseholder7437]

So, I took a liking to the two Russian characters Enzo and Yuri. They seemed to have such a pivotal part in Hoppers and Joyces situation. We know Joyce and Hopper made it back to the states but we never saw what happened between being picked up by Yuris Helicopter and ending up in government hands. i would hope both Russians made it to the states where they were able to stay and in Enzos case bring his daughter with him, or both were somehow spun as Heros of the Soviet Union thereby redeeming their status to the Soviet state. IDK, it just seems like the Duffer brothers put enough time and effort into the character development into these two, and IMO both actors performed their parts to perfection, that they would not just ghost us.

[@snowflake7952]

I also liked the other Russian guy Alexei in season 3

[@aimmers3005]

@@snowflake7952 homie deAD

[@sentientcardboarddumpster7900]

It seems you've identified a real spin off possibility with those two. We still don't know the full extent of what was going on with the soviets.

[@snowflake7952]

@@aimmers3005 Yeah and it was kinda sad.

[@adrian123781]

It would be amazing to see more of Erica and Suzie joining them in the battle and of course I hope they bring back Eleven’s sister Kali!

[@redforman6093]

THISSSS

[@KittenUndercover]

I think the hallucinogenic mushrooms might be a reference to Kali.

[@majesticladybug8395]

@@KittenUndercover Im sry but, I don’t understand the connection?

[@majesticladybug8395]

Also I personally really hope season 5 doesn’t include Kali too much. I just don’t like her and don’t agree with basically all of her decisions/goals (especially of hurting those who hurt her because she would be hurting a whole lot more than just that one person) idk I just don’t like her in general and that episode she was in is defiantly the worst episode of the entire show in my opinion.

[@STACADA23]

Kali ruined season 2 damn near unwatchable

[@anthonypecorara]

Remember when they were playing D&D in the beginning of season and they had to roll a 19 to defeat Vecna? Dustin rolled an 11, so it didn’t work. Then Erica rolled an 8, so they defeated him. I think that Eleven needs the help of Eight (Kali, the Hindu goddess who is considered to be the mistress of death, time, and change) to defeat Vecna. We know that season 5 takes place 2 years in the future, but we don’t know if they will have to go back in time. Regardless, my point, 11 and 8 can defeat Vecna together.

[@JP-gi5lj]

there is a big hint in the crossword puzzle that Dr. Brenner is filling out in the 1st episode of Season 4. The wife of shiva is the hint, and the answer is Kali.

[@ivandelgado8289]

She immediately came to my mind when the season ended. Like yeah 11 alone is not strong enough, but she isn’t the only one out there. Then not only will 1 and 8 be fighting Vecna but it’s been shown now that anyone from the group can do something to hurt/distract him also!

[@TheCookieCrewCV]

Erica rolled a nat 20, that's why they were all cheering

[@katleenbertaux4900]

I feel like Dustin rolling an 11 while playing D&D and losing to vecna in the game was a foreshadowing to eleven not being strong enough. But then Erica rolling an 20 and winning is potentially a foreshadowing of eleven needing the others help since she won't be able to kill him alone. Eleven being the 11 of course and the others Will, Mike, Lucas, Dustin, Nancy, Steve, Robin, Jonathan, Joyce and Hopper needs to be the missing 9.. But since they are 10 I think one of them will die

[@swaythekid]

yessss

[@mariapalladino2473]

Time travel is gonna have to happen. The upside down is stuck on the day Will went missing. It’s gotta be on a time loop. It’s like when Nancy was saying her gun wasn’t there because she didn’t have it yet. They figured out it’s in the past so time travel is a strong possibility. Makes me wonder if El wants to defeat Vecna she’s gonna have to decide to never meet the gang. Could be a time travel to before she met them and she won’t be able to meet them…..I don’t know 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@jacobtennyson9213]

Yes, time travel will be possible on Season five. By the way Vecna controls time.

[@maria-melek]

Yo that could very much be a possibility 😮

[@MattChristensen9]

For all the theories about time travel, it's odd to me that no one has pointed out that time was already actively rewound this season. Henry telepathically rolling the clock back was both a literal and figurative depiction of time being reversed, but in a small, defined pocket of space. It was interesting then to see what the rules on that were going to be. What ended up happening is that was how El was able to save Max but not save the world at that time: time was rewound on Max's heart so that it did not stop beating, but the ability only extended to that specific area. Max still died so the gates still opened, but her heart was rewound in time to a point where it was not going to stop. The pocket aspect though is important important if time is going to be affected in season 5. It is way too big of a power leap for El to be able to turn back time for the entire world, but the Upside Down, which is essentially a pocket dimension, is something that could probably be much more manageable since it only emulates the city of Hawkins. Secondly to that, the amount of time which will need to be reversed is a lot less in the Upside Down then it is in the real world as was pointed out in episode 7 when Nancy realized that it was frozen at the point Will was abducted.

[@leoniallen402]

Was the time frozen when will vanished or was it set there for Nancy based on the time of her trauma? (When Barb died) the diary entry details how her and Steve did stuff which happened the same day barb died. I think the time freezes are different depending on each individuals trauma.

[@yaboishua1905]

@@leoniallen402 I think that would be a super cool take, but Nancy wasn’t alone in the upside down then. She had Steve, Robin, and Eddie down there with her, so if it was an individual trauma kind of thing, the whole upside down wouldn’t be stuck on the date that Will went missing. I mean, especially for Eddie, his first trauma with the upside down happened with Chrissy’s death, which (according to your theory) would mean that the upside down should be stuck in more-or-less present time. Really cool theory though! I think it would’ve been a bit too confusing for the uniformity of the plot, but still an awesome idea :)

[@Nikhilbishnoi65]

So maybe El goes into upside down, reverses the time and stops vecna from entering upside down and gets trapped inside and dies

[@StreetStarEZA]

Have to think about it too, they mentioned Vecna was the strongest D&D villain. But, the actual strongest D&D villain is Borys. If you look at the painting that Will showed Mike, you'll see that they are fighting a big red dragon very similiar to Borys. We might see a new villain in Season 5 who knows.

[@severussnapeytp715]

ooh interesting.

[@beausinclair8053]

My theory is the demobats are like baby dragons, or at the very least another foreshadowing to the dragon. Bc vecna has these tentacle-like things attached to him, I believe that the dragon may were well have a multi-tail as well.

[@tammy3257]

Wow!!! Love this!!!!

[@indiacannon3258]

Yes and he lies saying El told him what to paint! but really it was Vecna who told him.

[@seans7295]

And also in season 3 when will is destroying fort Byers a flashback voice of Mike saying "this isn't the demogorgon this is something bigger" while it zooms in on a picture of a dragon I believe is foreshadowing

[@Challam3ow]

“8” is coming back for season 5. Eleven can’t fight all on her own so I have a feeling she’s going to find 8 and then Will since he’s like 1’s horcrux ….something like this idk. There’s so many possibilities. I don’t think 11 will die. I definitely think Will and maybe Steven will die.

[@cewapaiget5734]

8 can probably teach her a few more things too as well as do what vecna can do with hallucinations, so maybe she can distract him?

[@rathinseth2528]

whos steven again?

[@CL-eu7ye]

I hope I’m wrong but I fear that whoever does not win Nancy’s affections - Jonathan or Steve - may bite it (in a heroic manner) in the end. Fans would probably be more upset if it were Steve.

[@zenaidacustodio8880]

Idont wan t will and steve die even max they are original cast.

[@jadawilliams2319]

Well, people were saying that will and steve would die in season 4 and they didn't so it definitely feels like either one of them is going to die because only Eddie really died and max's death is unconfirmed since Lucas said that she died, and came back.

[@goodmorningcrystal]

I still think 8 needs to return in season 5. I know fans weren't impressed with her character arc but she is the only other remaining "patient". I think El could use her help?

[@ToploadedGaming]

As far as we're (mostly) concerned, that's not canon. It never happened. That was the worst time spent during the worst season of the show lol. Unless it's to show them all dying horrifically immediately, no thanks.

[@criticalboot2567]

i originally hoped that we'd see more 'numbers' appear in a finale of sorts, but thats definitely not gonna happen lmao, seeing 8 again would be cool tho.

[@Elly_B.01]

Yes, and with her power of illusion... She could be really helpful

[@Theblackout292]

@@ToploadedGaming It’s obviously cannon cuz they kept referencing 008 and showed her MULTIPLE times in flashbacks as a child with El in season 4. Watch season 4 again .She’s coming back. I’m calling it.

[@jordanbirckett65]

I really hope she comes back because it kind of felt like there wasnt much reason for that episode and it kind of went nowhere but if they bring her back then they can do a lot more than half a revenge plot. Plus I kept thinking throughout season 4 how helpful her powers would have been for the story (especially Eddie...)

[@Anasings.23]

Nancy realised that the Upside down was stuck in the past, so maybe they can use that as a weapon for time travelling. And I've always wondered about that, because if the Upside down is stuck in the past, that means the Hawkins lab is let's say still working and what if there is another gate in that lab in the upside down that to another dimension that is also stuck in a certain year in the past, and what if that upside down world also has a gate to another world. What I'm saying is that there can be an infinite number of upside down worlds, that are all stuck in a certain year in the past and maybe that is how El can travel through time, just by travelling through these gates of these other dimensions and by opening more gates until she arrives in a certain year to stop One from becoming Vecna. - I don't know if I was clear enough or if you guys understood, but this is just an idea, I'll maybe try to make it more understandable and present it again.

[@upenmanocha4366]

No but if there is a gate in the Hawkins lab (which leads to the upside down we are aware of from the real world) this means that, the particular gate would lead back to the real world no? Because we saw in SSN 4 that opening in real world leads to upside down and vice versa

[@jimbobeire]

@@upenmanocha4366 Is there a Hawkins Lab in the Upside Down? I don't think the whole Upside Down is stuck in one date... I think Vecna creates pieces of it using his mind at various times.... so he _was_ at the Wheeler house during that first game of D&D, which is why the lights on the porch blinked just before Will went off on his bike... Eddie's trailer looks the same as it did the night of Chrissy's death... I don't think Vecna created a copy of the lab in the upside down though... he hated that place, and when Brenner sent people through the gate to service a monitoring station, they were on an empty landscape, not going through a mirror image of the lab.

[@hammies-plays625]

there is a theory where when dustin rolled the dice against eddie to beat vecna but he rolled an 11 but when lucas shot the basket ball and scored his jersey number was 8 so the theory is that 11 isn’t strong enough to defeat vecna and that she’ll need her sister 8. i honestly think this is an awesome theory and it would be cool.

[@rachelsl4492]

Good spot. I was thinking if they did bring back a character it will be 8, seeing as she is alive and also has another power, one of the same as Vecna's, which is making people see things. In addition, re the Sinclair siblings sucessfully making hail Mary shots in the last minute of their games, I like to think they may together, being brother and sister, take the final shot/s at Vecna. I think the bond they have will play a role, seeing as how Vecna destroyed his bond with his own sister, and that of El's.

[@deborahclark4589]

I have said from the beginning of El's sister's appearance, that it would take the 2 of them to catalyze the defeat of the negative upside-downers.

[@TheCookieCrewCV]

The 8 is cause of Kobe

[@sammynicole10]

See I told hubby same thing. I bet they bring back 8 in the last season

[@katleenbertaux4900]

I feel like Dustin rolling an 11 while playing D&D and losing to vecna in the game was a foreshadowing to eleven not being strong enough. But then Erica rolling an 20 and winning is potentially a foreshadowing of eleven needing the others help since she won't be able to kill him alone. Eleven being the 11 of course and the others Will, Mike, Lucas, Dustin, Nancy, Steve, Robin, Jonathan, Joyce and Hopper needs to be the missing 9.. But since they are 10 I think one of them will die

[@jaredhatfield2806]

I believe Max's consciousness is stuck in Vecna's mind like everyone else that he kills. And remember when she made it into his home (mind) in the Dear Billy episode? Dustin implied that it was like she found a back door into his mind and I believe that's going to play a big part in season 5. It seems like too big of a statement to just mean nothing in the end.. Either way, Max's "death" is going to play a huge role in season 5. They wouldn't have her brought back to life and show the scene of her mind being blank if it didn't have some serious implications

[@eddiegreencheez]

I was thinking it could the other way around, retreated into her mind as a means of survival. The way her eyes looked in the hospital bed, blackish veins like he's infected her

[@EnglishVirgo]

Can we have Eddie back now please? I cried!

[@mayorebfarnum8114]

that was dumb, they killed the best new addition of the show, should have killed Mike or Robin instead.

[@zpaztrik1418]

@@mayorebfarnum8114 or Lucas boring character

[@rebeccamiller8104]

I did too! Loved Eddie!

[@07sharkteam]

His death was kinda meaningless. Steve and co. were already in and the bats didn't need furthermore distraction. Would have loved to see more of Eddie.

[@justarider5391]

@@mayorebfarnum8114 WHAT?!

[@yurlcalweeb857]

Honestly, the coolest thing that could happen would be El preventing Henry from becoming a villain, and fixing everything in the past, making it so Henry wouldn't be a villain, and no deaths would have ever happened.

[@mAtEEE2010]

Yeah, but she wouldnt meet any of the gang

[@salv.6948]

As the Duffer Brothers stick to certain D&D tropes, the lore of a Lich is that one can't die unless you destroy their phylactery, an object that houses their soul, making their bodes expendable. If they stick to this path, the group may need to find One's soul to truly destroy him. Dustin will figure this out if anyone will, lol.

[@Lizzard2060]

The clock?

[@Aya-cz8pz]

Will probably needed to die?

[@Frequencies_Of_Equanimity77]

Will Byers is Vacna’s Phylactery… 😳

[@bryanfine986]

There’s a theory that it’s Will. Not sure if I believe it but it’s an interesting possibility. Also they did keep calling Mike the “heart” of the group…

[@MichaelBoogerd]

@@Lizzard2060 i thought that was the significance of the clock all season - but then they didn't use it in that way for the finale.

[@shaydarebel]

Y’all are forgetting about Eight. She has the power to make vecna see what she wants him to see. She can make an appearance in season 5 to help her sister Eleven. 🤷🏾‍♀️ just a hunch .

[@leela8143]

exactly people seemed to have forgotten about her i honestly miss her😅 i wonder how she will feel seeing El again

[@messi1071339ify]

@@leela8143 also, you noticed in the premiere of season 4 when they played DnD, Dustin diced 11 (eleven) and it was not enough to defeat Vecna, but when Erica rolled the dice, she got a 20 that helped defeat Vecna. at the same time it switched to Lucas who had number 8 on his jersey. so i believe that El cannot defeat Vecna on her own but Eight will return to help her and they both will fuse their powers to finally end him

[@christianmarvello7527]

ikr, she should literally be in s5, considering the duff bros. being amazing writers they literally think of everything, but somehow forgot to make 008 part of the show which is a bit confusing, she could be seriously helpful and would make the whole of ST better becoz they didn't forget her

[@itzthestarwolf797]

People forget that she escaped and not get killed by 001

[@swaythekid]

@@leela8143 yess

[@amandahallman1091]

One thought I had after the emotional reunion between Hopper & El was: Couldn’t El have just searched for Hopper telepathically like she did for Will and Barb in previous seasons? Held a photo of him, put on a blindfold & voilà: he’s alive⁉️

[@amandahallman1091]

Just remembered, she lost her powers initially…BUT once she regained them, she could have looked for him the same way she looked for Max.

[@freddurstfan420]

@@amandahallman1091 that’s true but i think by the time she regained her powers she was already aware that her friends were in danger and was much more focused on that, plus already figured he was dead for the last 8 months or so, if she had spare time maybe she would’ve checked but i doubt it was the first thing on her mind

[@jfundz9632]

@@amandahallman1091 true but joyce said they had a funeral for him so why would she assume he was still alive

[@rurur1zz]

Because she lost her powers at that time?

[@meganlee7445]

She also thought he was dead, so she probably didn't feel the need to search for him

[@MrJackfaire]

Vecna didn't trap Max in the Snowball dance memory. That's where she was hiding from Vecna. He hunted her and found her there it started turning dark when he found her in the memory.

[@HAVgiraffe]

i really hope Eleven powers up for season 5 when she fights VH1 (Vecna, Henry, 001) because I am tired of the show nerfing her powers. i want her to let go and pulverize some upsidedown creatures. we had enough of her learning to use her powers in previous seasons (especially ST2 and ST4), now I need her to unleash!

[@Cowoman]

Yeah ! I feel like El' hasn't reach full power yet. I mean she opened a gate to an other universe when she was 11 (12?) years old ! She doesn't realise how strong is and I think next season she'll be able to (and will have to) finally unleash all her love-fueled power !

[@asighttowonder878]

VH1 !!! That is the best thing ive heard lol

[@ndongengone7284]

It would be interesting, for example, if she finally learned to fly like a super heroine, as Brenner recommends, the worst part is that we know she can. This can be a major plus point. And that's just one of many things.

[@lyn46u49]

Why not H1V lol

[@dawnfry2797]

OMG!! VH1!!! I love it✨🔥🔥

[@saraya9255]

I personally think that when vecna drags max and eleven out of Max's memory. He's basically taking Max's consciousness with him and then that consciousness is what disappeared along with vecna and his "world" when Nancy, Steve and Robin attack his physical body. (Kinda like she got trapped inside that world, contrary to the first time where she ran into the light and then came back) but

[@AxelaxiB]

Maybe similar to The Conjuring where keyface can separate people from their physical bodies.

[@minhdh6885]

There is something with Will, I can feel it ... My prediction is he will have a BIG role in season 5, but I'm also worried it might not end up well for him. Pls, don't tell me it's going to be another Tony Stark moment :( Then, there is also a theory about Will and Vecna as Harry Potter and Voldemort stuff. I'm pretty sure Will or Mike is going to die. Will said to Mike that he is the group's HEART, so the big question remains: Who is Will??? And in that case, does Dustin and Lucas have any special roles??? Gosh, I can't wait for season 5.

[@KitKat-gn2nn]

I think: Mike: heart Dustin: brain lucus: strength Will: soul

[@soph850]

will is the cleric

[@rustywine7839]

The Duffers already confirmed that he will have a big role in szn5.

[@vlasdrum]

My favourite time travel easter egg is Max's first day at Hawkins High. When introduced to the class, she says "It's Max, never Maxine" actually referring to Life is Strange - where the protagonist girl Max says the same about herself AND later she discovers she can rewind time. Before it didn't make sense to me, why the writers would include this in Stranger Things. Now I see the point.

[@StelsunNwadinma]

Who knows, with time travel being heavily discussed, Eddie, Max, and maybe even people like Billy could come back. Maybe Eleven will go back far enough to prevent 1 from becoming Vecna and maybe even stop Henry as a child, especially because they showed a bunch of childhood flashbacks and the clock.

[@donniewinter5331]

Possibly creating a new parrarel time-line maybe where 11 saves the world but never really meets the crew in the new parallel time line

[@rowni]

we get Bob, Alexei and Barb back too!! (well hopefully)

[@vcharmer5536]

Perhaps El will go back and stop Henry from becoming Vecna but what if by her going back she never meets Mike or anyone else. Everything goes back to how it was at the start of Season 1 but Will never gets taken to the Upside Down and life goes on.

[@Lizzard2060]

@@donniewinter5331 But that is the sad part and then El would not have ever met our group or gone on this adventure and would be sacrificing every good thing she has ever known. She would never have escaped, fallen in love, met Hopper. I mean it would be sad. So if we get all those character's back then El can't be there.

[@melarie205]

this is my dream ending i would be SO HAPPY i want billy and eddie back:(

[@giants2k8]

Eddie had a huge impact on the season , and he was a fantastic addition to the gang. I thought he was great from the 1st episode, but the actor’s performance and the character’s friendship with Dustin made his death that much more heart-wrenching. He decided to make the ultimate sacrifice, knowing that distracting the bats would lead to his certain death. His death reminded me a lot of Bob’s death and sacrifice in season 2. They even both got their trunks punctured by monsters from the upside down. This season was probably the best of the four so far. Obviously season one will always have a special place in my heart, however with the added experience of Duffer brothers who have built a whole world and showed brilliant growth and character development; from Steve to Hopper. Then you add in the immense budget compared to the first season, and the comparison isn’t even close. The way in which they created Vecna this season and showed that he was far more than a mere monster, he was a 001 and he created everything, all thanks to Eleven, unintentionally of course. He was the ultimate antagonist and it would of been weak writing had he fell for a bunch of teenagers ill-advised trap. It made more sense that Eleven was the one to seriously injure Vecna, especially when you consider their history. Now he really knows how important her friends are to her though, which could mean a lot more deaths of the characters we love in the final season. One character I felt lacked a little this season, specifically in his acting and role in the season was Lucas. At times it seemed like he wasn’t really relevant to the story anymore, other than being Max’s ex. Which was sad, because he was part of the core group and original party. Damn, this comment wasn’t supposed to be this long. I kind of got carried away. 😂

[@twiligh4trinitya]

I feel like Lucas had more of an impact than the Will's brother Johnathan this season. He stayed pretty quiet besides noticing Will's inner turmoil and having a fun stoner friend.

[@soulserenade.kcn1992]

What?! How can you think Lucas barely had any storyline?! He SHINED this season!! He had more of a role and purpose than ever before.

[@arunimabhattacharya436]

@@soulserenade.kcn1992 exactly! Lucas was astounding this season! He had so much to do and he did it brilliantly!

[@catbertz]

I'd say Lucas was the only thing that Max had to hold on to during the madness. He was her rock.

[@pookiipower435]

Jonathan's the character I think was sorely left sidelined and forgotten.. Lucas I think had a huge role this season.

[@caseyhart4999]

I rewatched the lost sister episode today after finishing season 4 and I gotta say that episode works a lot better now with all the information we have and it makes me hope we see Kali in season 5. She’s probably the only other person out there who knows Henry and her powers could be very useful in dealing with him

[@KubaPiersiak]

In first dr Brenner scene this season, one of the words in the crossword puzzle spells out Kali - so yeah, I think so!

[@myroc1]

I cant remeber all the details, but in one if the campaigns for DnD Vecna is nearly destroyed an all that's left of him is his hand an eye (how he's represented in the early DnD years). I don't think it's a coincidence that El has his ability to "cast spells" (the hand) and Kali has the ability to create illusions (the eye). I think she's coming back.

[@jehonacorrales]

I think so too!! When 1 was telling 11 that Papa lies he says something about 8. I think Kali will definitely be returning to help 11.

[@lukeimontv7086]

Assuming that 011 isn’t powerful enough to stop Vecna alone as Brenner said, then she could definitely use help from 008! Also, maybe 011 could finish the rest of her mental training with help from Owens again somehow. Perhaps from a program that he creates on his laptop? They are supposed to time leap 4 or 5 years going into the last season, so obviously Owens could have kept secretly working on something during that time - knowing that he and Eleven were the keys to stopping the end of Hawkins and the world by Vecna

[@soulserenade.kcn1992]

Yeah I was hoping to see her in the finale! I thought there were so many signs for her return. We need more information on her story.

[@justingloston2145]

I think papa’s info about 001 absorbing his victims is key. I think it means they are still “conscious” within him and if given the will they may be able to fight back from the inside. We’ve seen this many times in horror movies and anime…

[@johnmills3619]

When they played Dungeons & Dragons in season 4 and Dustin threw an 11, it wasn’t enough to defeat Vecna. Erica then threw a 20 to defeat him and win the game. 11 wasn’t enough, they needed more, they needed someone else with powers that’s still alive to defeat him………someone like 9. Sooooo just gonna point out that 11+9= 20!

[@soulserenade.kcn1992]

No it is 8!! 11+8 and the battle with 1 so 11+8+1=20. Kali needs to come back

[@embryant1583]

During this battle the basketball game is going on. Lucas wears a number 8 shot scores with one second left. Could be coincidence or foreshadowing.

[@CL-eu7ye]

Duh, didn’t even register w/me about the 11, as in Eleven/Elle .. Lucas’ sis has already proved her mettle time & again; wonder if she’ll have an even bigger role in the final battle?

[@christinaterry7582]

@@soulserenade.kcn1992 YESSS I just did this math like a minute ago, no joke I’m glad someone else said it

[@tkeiller_84]

@@embryant1583 that was a reference to Kobe I think

[@johncullinane2231]

I feel that 011 is going to time travel in season 5 to reverse what she did with Henry/001/Vecna. But by doing so, no one will know who she is in the end. So she loses everyone personally but saves everyone.

[@018saveme]

She pulled a Peter Parker a la No Way Home.

[@RossHolt89]

That sucks and I hope that doesn’t happen! That would be so sad for El

[@ndongengone7284]

So she goes to the past, changes kills peter instead of sending him to the upside down world and then what happens?? She comes back to the present, things have changed or she stays in the past and continues to be Brenner's coboy for many years.

[@Lizzard2060]

I think this too but I think she stops Henry before Brenner ever gets his hands on him and starts his project. No 001 to ever start with or if there is it would not be Henry Creel.

[@janahinnawi7521]

I think this is true, like so true, but I think she'll go back in time using her powers and she'll literally stop it and then come back to the reallity, lets just hope we have a Happy ending with the amazing crew in Hawkins and not deaths as they surprised us with eddie's death 💔

[@sss95547]

Will is going to replace Vecna as the ruler of the upside down and will make balance again. His sacrifice will give him a world where he belongs.

[@mr.gorham6228]

Absolutely Agree

[@austinoblambino]

My theory is that there is definitely going to be a Season 5. Thank you, thank you, I’ll be here all week.

[@smeagol8454]

no shit, everyone already said that theres gonna be season 5

[@prtdiva]

@@smeagol8454 it’s sarcasm boo 🥴

[@smeagol8454]

@@prtdiva so funny hahah wow

[@JILLIAN844]

This is my new favorite theory, very inspiring words

[@christianclarke158]

Funding ran out we regret to inform all our S.T fans and family good day Charlie

[@synkodev]

I didn’t consider the scene of Argyle collecting mushrooms as a hint at first, but the hallucinogenic effects might be related to Eleven's lost sister in season 2. Not sure if they would ever want to remind us of this part of the show (that was the worst part imo) but it could be very helpful to distract a mind-controller villain with hallucinations, who knows.

[@giselleX0X0]

Agreed- literal worst subplot and I hope they do NOT bring her back but it is a reasonable theory

[@chaotic1223]

Yea that part where Argyle was picking the mushrooms was so random, too random to be comedic relief. it mostly has something to do with the plot or season 5

[@KaiWills]

Okay hear me out - think of the Doctor Sleep if you've seen it (sequel to The Shining). Maybe it'll work out similarly where they use their mindscapes and hallucinations to win against him? I think you have a plausible idea.

[@goatation]

Truly, I don’t believe Eddie is dead, there’s no body, there’s no visual on his dead body, there’s no commitment to his death because ST brings dead characters back (Hopper, Papa), Eddie could definitely wake up in the upside down from unconsciousness & crawl into the gate back in Hawkins

[@catleatherwood4770]

Im curious if he’s going to be a version of Kas, he’s a D&D character who’s undead and serves Vecna. He betrays him

[@youcancallmeseptember8046]

@@catleatherwood4770 god id give anything for this to happen...

[@LeoCap28]

But... Dustin watched Eddie die in his arms.

[@leela8143]

didnt we all just watch him die no offense

[@christianmarvello7527]

vecna didn't create the mind flayer tho, he shaped it, we see him exploring the UD and the particles (as joyce would call them) are already existent, hence vecna shaping it to be a spider coz he had a connection with them

[@lospollos5303]

If you find marble, you create a statue. You may have not made the marble but you did create the thing that came of it

[@wendigo374]

I didn't realize it looked like a spider

[@Dzhalekk]

Season 5 predictions/wishes: Definitely Will's going to get in a lot of trouble with Vecna/The Mind Flayer and the Upside Down overall and hopefully he'll have some powers he doesn't know about yet. Let's hope we'll see a bigger enemy than Vecna (Borys as we speak of) and maybe a few more monster types from the Upside Down. This is something really on the side but I'd love to see a cooperation between Hopper and Murray in at least one melee fight since we already know Murray can also fight for real. Also - Eddie coming back as Kas from D&D would be kinda cool really. And his role to work in means against Vecna's plans. As for the first one - if Will really gets some powers it would be so epic if he fights alongside with El.

[@luvhorse7226]

Also Max better wake up from her coma

[@Kate-cy9dl]

who is kas

[@Dzhalekk]

@@Kate-cy9dl Kas is a vampire creature who works for Vecna in the D&D universe. But as I also mentioned - the role of Kas includes betraying Vecna at a certain moment. So if Eddie covers that role - it would be really epic.

[@mikemcfiggus8996]

I really like that point that was made about 11 not being strong enough to battle Vecna on her own. This is where I think her sister from Season 2 (cant remember her name) may come back to help battle.

[@m_jr3868]

008 for shorts lol

[@MoreOfMeh]

kali

[@nikomiller3852]

Shes never coming back. That was filler. The arc is done

[@KaiWills]

I've been waiting for 008 to come back, I really thought this was the season. They need her help! Really hoping they bring her back for S5.

[@2ruthfox82]

Hopefully not.. I feel like that whole bit was a low point for the series.

[@aylenzegarra27]

If El timetravels then she's never gonna meet the whole group 😭 it will be like nothing ever happened + i also think that most chances are she sacrifices herself by the end of season 5

[@yurisiqueira558]

Which would make sense specially with Nancy saying on volume 1 that’s the last time frame that the upside down is stuck is when Will went missing so yeah she’s probably going to either die or just be in the upside controlling everything to not happen again

[@izenwp]

My theory is that the Demogorgon is actually a nice creature and that the "shadow" didn't have its own mind but it did have an evil "aroma" and since vecna/1 controls the "shadow" he made the shadow go in the Demogorgon's because he knew they are quite strong.

[@catherinewoodfield5912]

The fact he was exploring and a demogorgon just passed him without attacking shows they could be quite placid creatures when not possessed by his hive mind.

[@PrettyOmnificent333]

That could be correct cause how come they didn't eat him when he first came there ?

[@jya6458]

Tru and remember dart? Dustin’s pet demogorgon? That demorgorgon was “nice” even with the influence of the hive mind. So imagine if they had their own individual wills maybe

[@WristwatchAddiction]

@@jya6458 true. What If the kids could break the hive mind mentally, perhaps the demos and shadow creature are who defeat Vecna. Basically, the world he created, destroying him as a revolt for being possessed for so long

[@lauracatania5063]

@@jya6458 Basically dogs in another form

[@babyfacebambino]

...I never thought Argyle simply checking out some shroomies could be a possible game changer.

[@Kimberli1966]

I was very disappointed that El and Hopper had no dramatic scene. They all thought he was dead. It seemed like no big deal to anyone. I’m hoping Eddie isn’t really dead. No one seen his body. No funeral. Dustin didn’t check for a pulse. Maybe he can be saved. No one cared that he died either, which I think is strange and sad.

[@JessicaRodriguez-zy5gz]

No one cared that Eddie died bc everyone thought he was a murderer that was in a cult. Dustin and Eddie were best friends, and Dustin was tore up over it.

[@dmin5782]

@@JessicaRodriguez-zy5gz What about the other people in the gang who know the truth? They just ignored him.

[@KC-ed1dj]

So true, El acted like Hopper had just returned from an extended business trip and not from the dead. I would be estatic to see my parents again in the flesh.

[@Kimberli1966]

@@KC-ed1dj, exactly. I waited all that time just to see that part too lol. That was a huge let down.

[@adrianaldea6503]

if they don’t bring Kali for Season 5, that would be a huge gap in this show. Also would be more logical to reappear in last season since she is connected with El and Henry and we need a clousere

[@colbyharrison8076]

yea. the funniest thing is probably when everyone thought suzie was going to play a big part and surprise us by being the leader of evil (with papa) which is false as everyones noticed. i feel like eddys alive, the duffer brothers made it clear the birds cant kill, which thats supposably how eddie died and dustin didnt check for a pulse? as soon as the next day or week whatever came it affected nobody, nobody brought up eddies death until dustin said something to his father. i believe eddy is hiding and nancy, argyle, will, all of them are hiding him because they know hes innocent and if everyone thinks hes alive they will have no choice but to think hes the one who started all of this in the beginning. lmao this is my opinions. i also think something dangerous would happen to will.. because the whole season he played a very depressing role and didnt do much but as soon as he headed back to hawkins he felt vecna, and even tho they havent seen eachother vecna could asurely take him over. id be surprised if will came out ending up dead, but it wouldnt be a total shocker based on all the crazy shit that happened. also im assuming max will come back in the next season either blind or as a different person. lmao this is jus me talking too much even tho nobodys probably going to read it🥲💀💀🫣

[@daddy-warfunk1956]

if you get mauled like that by anything... you're going to bleed out and die. Sorry, Eddie's dead.

[@MrsLJ04]

I’d say it’s obvious no matter how powerful Elle is she cannot defeat Vecnar alone, she needs strong support behind her aka the gang. I feel Will’s connection to the Mindflare and Vecnar will play an important part in the final season, he’s the underdog no one’s expecting. However two things the gang have which Vecnar doesn’t is happy memories and love! All our beloved characters coming together will lead to Vecnars downfall, and music too of favourite songs from happy times will play a part. But no more deaths of amazing characters please Duffer Brothers, and don’t know about the rest of you but on our little side story so bleeding hapoy to see Joyce and Hopper finally together!

[@im.bored..1625]

I think Will is embarrassed, but not in that way. I think everything he is saying about El he is trying to say it in his point of view, using El as a, i guess character. Because ever since El came back Mike has been becoming distant, so he uses El to be close since Mike adores El. But that’s just me. 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@melaniemcclellan4359]

I think when Max is saved in S5 she's going to be blind and have a little of El's power. When Vecna kills, he aborbs his victims' powers, right? So what if in order for Eleven to save Max, she would need to have given up some power? That could also open up the possibility of El and Max having a connection in similar ways to Will and Vecna's connection. It would be sick to see both girls team up like that and after all, El is gunna need some help!

[@Johnnyrocks34]

I hope vecna just kills all of them! Would be epic!

[@rezadroidjr]

ikr, there is no way el would do everything alone in season 5, I think some of the kids on the lab could still be live that been taken away from papa, like 10 and 2, aside of 8 we already know she is survived, 10 had less of injury, he just passed out over the door thrower away on him and papa, beside there is a table beside him, he is pretty much not getting much injury, and then number 2 is not in the room with others as far as I know, he is taken care on like ward of hospital, I wish we could see more super power human like el to fight against vecna's army and vecna it self, that would be pretty rad!!

[@lucassales7504]

Eleven didnt save Max because when 001 "kills" hes not really killing them, all his victims are still alive in his mind, just like all the kids that he destroyed in the lab. He just takes control of their minds, he doesnt kill them

[@declanmccallum]

This is the theory I'm going for. I think Max will eventually regain her full function when Vecna dies, but I would be far more satisfied if she instead became someone akin to Brann Stark, a character with great powers that are not hindered by their new disability.

[@Johnnyrocks34]

@@declanmccallum would be so cool if she became bad! Now that id be into.

[@daniellelucy6056]

I agree about time travel being a theme for next season. I’m willing to bet El learns how to do it (by accident at first), then goes back in time to kill Henry. If Henry never kills his family, Dr. Bremner never aquires him or the other children, El gets to have a life with her mother, Nancy and Steve date and later marry and have their Harrington brood, and the DND core group (and Hopper, etc) will stay intact and otherwise fine but never know/love El.

[@xmakexuxupx]

Three things I feel like could happen in Season 5. Max gets powers, 008 comes back, that red dragon could be who is above Vecna running the upside down. Haha but who knows ! 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@MOBOT-qh9ek]

Loved every minute of this, and i sure hope they bring back El's sister Kali (008). That would be a hell of a batter with Vecna for another season.

[@thedeathgod1995]

Someone is definitely gonna pull an Iron Man sacrifice style at the end of Season 5.

[@mayorebfarnum8114]

it should be Joyce this time, Hop sacrificed himself once already. EQUALITY

[@07sharkteam]

Please not Steve

[@FupaDoncic]

Probably Will, he’s been tied to Vecna since the start.

[@ayushkatiyar3202]

Also they pulled an Avenger style by not going for the head

[@Intolerable853]

@@mayorebfarnum8114 didn’t she suffer enough in season 1 and 2

[@jamsmit1249]

I wonder if 008 will come into play next season? And it’s still strange that Upside down is set to date as Will’s Hawkins and not anyone else’s that Vecna has taken.

[@binnie1801]

I believe the upside down Hawkins is Will's creation to hide from the monster . The Creel house is the only thing of significance for Vecna.

[@JP-gi5lj]

not strange, it wasn't JUST the day that Will got taken, if I'm not mistaken, it was also the day that El opened the first gate to the upside down by accident.

[@zwordsman]

I'm still fair certain that everyone who goes to the upside down leaves fragments. but Will's perception of it left a larger portion due to the mind flayer fully connecting rather than simply consuming etc.

[@isaiahm5415]

@@JP-gi5lj Good point, but by that logic wouldn’t The Upside Down be set on the day El opened the very first portal when she fought Henry at Hawkins Lab?

[@ndongengone7284]

@@JP-gi5lj The first breach was in 1979 when she kicked 001 into the upside down world, the second was in 1983 when she came into contact with the demogorgon, she opened a big portal. However we don't have the exact certainty that it happened on the same day that Will disappeared, we know however that it was the same year.

[@rockcitycards2993]

Will seems torn. Very interested to see how that storyline plays out. He either is secretly in love with Eleven or Mike. I think it's Mike and I think his brother knows. Can't wait for season 5!

[@SunlessNick]

It's absolutely Mike. I kind of hope Mike dies in season 5, and Eleven tells Will that she knows he loved Mike the same way she did.

[@shellylepresti1460]

Definitely Mike

[@JILLIAN844]

definitely not eleven, there step siblings

[@ellieddavis2503]

i hope you do realize that I laughed HARD at this comment

[@rajkumarpitchai]

I guess that may not be a love, vecna showed the Mike death.thats why he is crying in pain.might that will be the reason el will become more aggressive and strong to defeat vs vecna..just my theory 😅

[@AmayazumiKitagawa]

My theory regarding time travel/time manipulation is that it's definitely going to be a thing in Season 5. I also believe that's how Eleven brought Max back. She just reversed Max's body to a previous state, where she was still (barely) alive. She probably isn't aware of this power but we'll probably get to see her harness it throughout Season 5

[@elliebelly2849]

Woah that’s totally true! Maybe both vecna and El can manipulate time? All I know is there is EXTREME potential for El’s powers to be even stronger than ever before.

[@wadewilson8011]

So you're saying El's 'quirk" is Eri's from My Hero Academia??? Rewind? 🤔 Interesting. If you watch MHA you'll get the joke.

[@AmayazumiKitagawa]

@@wadewilson8011 EXACTLY lol

[@lgestrella67]

Eleven didn't reverse max- she just pumped her heart..

[@chaotic1223]

I think El brought Max back in a similar way to Jodie in Beyond Two Souls did with her mom. Stranger Things has a similar character arc of El with Jodie and Aiden. Both “telekinetic” powers, moms are both incapacitated in their own bodies, both were lab rats.

[@diethermoret3572]

I think one thing some missed out is that Vecna was actually saved by nancy and the squad after they lit him on fire. He got out of the “mind travelling” mode just in time before he got killed by eleven the same way he killed the 4 victims…

[@bhumikadash5865]

No the squad destroyed his physical body... But ya as will said he is still alive may be means his mind is alive with the mind flayer

[@LagunaLeonhart]

His physical body disappeared in the upside down meaning he got up and walked away or something similar. Steve should have gone for the head

[@erickaanv]

i just think its so upsetting that els character has relied on the dependency she has on mike in order to save the world. i mean cmon, max was dying right in front of her and instead of fighting for her best friends life, mikes silly monologue is what "saves the world". her worth as a character has been so dwindled down to loving a boy. she needs character growth and i hope she gets that individually. she deserves to find herself as a person first before she can put that into a relationship.

[@BlueRidgeBubble]

This reads like some college freshmen women's studies 101 nonsense. She had tons of character growth before that, not involving Mike at all. What the heck was NINA? Lol Real life can't pass the Bechdel test and we cannot expect our fiction to

[@chrismadison328]

Mike was the first person to try to get to know her as a person. Even the rest of the group in season 1 didnt invest much time in her or trust her until the end of that season. Yes they fell in love but its more about the fact that he was her first real human connection. It has nothing to do with the fact that hes a boy who loves her.

[@Sailingrenegade]

When I finished watching season 4 I noticed how in the ending scene El went forward to get a better look at the destroyed town, standing in a field of dead flowers. Behind her in the field where the flowers were still living, you can clearly see the others lining up, with Jonathan and Nancy standing close to each other, the same with Mike and Will in the middle and Joyce and Hopper. Could this be a hidden foreshadowing, that El will die while the others survive and end up in a relationship? On a further note I could see El dying, but reincarnating in a future child of Joyce and Hopper, to live on as a normal girl with beloved parents and a normal childhood? Just a speculation.

[@Chrissybrit43]

Nice drop of the Byler non narrative there 🙄

[@tyrasmith3038]

Is it just me who thinks they heavily implied that Eleven might fly?

[@grantwalkersound]

I totally see the time angle. They could kill off just about every main character and have L save them all by fixing the past. Curious if they'd do a Donnie Darko and have L be forced to sacrifice herself to correct the past. In this case... by saving One in the past from his fate... it would in turn result in Papa's experimental program never happening... This means L wouldn't be born either, because if I remember correctly I believe the pregnancy itself was artificially inseminated as part of the experiment. So she would have to sacrifice her very existence for her friends. I could definitely see that.

[@lauratjemarsman]

They did say the ending was gonna be a real tearjerker

[@치추이]

@@lauratjemarsman aw crud

[@emmetkilkelly9557]

Going to be insane to rewatch knowing it was Vecna/001 all along