Vegas Sphere System - Hear Holoplot X1 Demo

[@howmit6361]

Back in the 80's I read some Speakerlab documentation that showed an old experiment where there was a very large array of microphones - think 20 feet by 50ft - behind an orchestra in a symphony hall. They recorded the orchestra and then played the recording back through speakers that were colocated in the same position as the microphones. The audience could not tell the difference between the live orchestra and the recording. Everything old is new again.

[@DaveRat]

Interesting and kind of cool and this is something that was not really possible until processing and amplifier size and power outputs could be optimized. Just the amount of signals sent to each speaker cabinet is astronomical and the amount of data and processing is astronomical and keeping the heat generation down from the amplifiers are all substantial challenges

[@peteleoni9665]

This is the real way forward. All other systems are now as invalid as a Victrola (which I enjoy listening to as I have no choice but to listen to the music since there is no such thing as fidelity or holographic imaging) (-:

[@DaveRat]

It could be interesting, Atmos is focused on recreating an environment inside of your listening environment, this system is focused on recreating the actual musicians in your listening environment, kind of different concepts.

[@TravisTaylor-b9r]

That’s Harvey fletcher’s curtain of microphones and curtain of speakers. Adamson fletcher machine follows these principals in its engine.

[@DaveRat]

That microphone curtain concept won't work and it's flawed. The simplistic concept of grabbing sound from various spots and then re-radiating it loses all of the directional and vector information of the original signals hitting the mics and replaces it with the dispersion of each individual speaker which is completely unrelated to the arrival vector of the sound on the microphone. To make that work they would need to do something like have each microphone be three or four microphones they grab not only the sound arriving but also the direction from which arrives from. Then each re-radiating speaker would also be a cluster that recreates not only the sound picked up by the mic but radiates it in the correct direction that the original signal arrived at. Only then would this system begin to function without blurring things into a mess

[@VictorRochaGaming]

I saw U2 at the Sphere in October. The sound is amazing. The visuals are stunning. That venue is a game changer for entertainment. Expensive too.

[@DaveRat]

Super cool

[@pkdude5334]

how good can U2 really be?

[@DaveRat]

Good point. I mixed rage against the machine opening for U2 and it was interesting but not a show I would go to with out being paid but I do appreciate skill and a great production

[@Alkatross]

You know what i like about this video? Dave walks outside the defined listening areas so we can hear the effect breaking down. Such as the big null point right in front of the speaker during wavefront playing. Or the delay scattering when they bounce off the rear. I came away with a workable understanding of how they acheive the effects. That is a huge amout of channels and processing. I wonder if they send all audio and control data wirelessly to the units.

[@R3l3ntl3sss]

The audio is all sent through Ravenna. I was the blurred individual that helped design the audio for Sphere and designed the all the Studios audio.

[@Sachifu]

Cool. Thanks for the look into how the Sphere's audio system works. I have so many ideas...

[@patdry]

Wow, this is really cool. Thanks for sharing with us, Dave!

[@DaveRat]

👍🎛️👍

[@Rararawr]

Crazy to look at that array and realize its $440,000. Will be fun to see what applications this technology gets used in and if I'll ever experience it

[@DaveRat]

It's the system that's in the sphere in Las Vegas

[@Edwin-van-der-Putten]

Wow!!! I want to hear this live!!! :-) Thanks, Dave!

[@hughlawson5399]

imagine this as a stage monitor system that can follow each performer with their own monitor mix.

[@DaveRat]

There's so much that can be done it boggles the mind

[@rene318]

it does really..@@DaveRat

[@RoiKRodriguez]

It’s called in ear monitor 😂😂😜

[@DaveRat]

@maxmaix it's in the Vegas sphere and initially it was pushed as a live sound system and many other applications. The usage potential is evolving and I don't think anyone really knows where or if it's popularity will end up

[@greham]

Imagine only targeting the dance floor of your appartment at a home party and not blasting the walls and waking your neighbors up.

[@Tarnith]

Really cool to see wavefront synthesis ending up in real world applications. Really exciting to see.

[@DaveRat]

🤙🎛️🤙

[@thenoisynomad]

A simple idea, have two concerts in the same venue at the same time. The experience of dancing and jamming out to one band while half the audience is enjoying a totally different style would be surreal. Of course you would need all electronic instruments and in ear monitors to keep the stage volume very low.

[@DaveRat]

And music with out subwoofers on any deep lows

[@austinfarley4971]

YES! I was hoping for this video!

[@66fitton]

Didn't know about this at all until this video. This is something I'd love to experience! Next level control! WOW!!

[@PierreVilleneuve88]

Someone had fun with Dall-E 🙂 Interesting DSP array system. Thanks for sharing.

[@DaveRat]

Ha and yes! "Wall of speakers projecting various holograms of instruments"

[@tigeraudio]

The critters and the people mover audio sounds like the tunnel in ATL airport. I was approached to tune the Sphere but they ultimately decided to use the manufacturer, which I think was the right decision. Not sure what I would be “tuning”.

[@pkdude5334]

the separated beam steering is crazy. I can't imagine the applications

[@DaveRat]

👍🤙👍

[@danwool]

Great demo video! I'm a sound designer wanting to get into things like this. Do you have any sense of what the workflow would be to deliver media for a Holoplot installation or similar? How is a mix created for wavefront installations? Thx!

[@DaveRat]

You know they've been trying to get me out there to their demo set up in Vegas and show me all that. I think they might have sent me the software I just haven't had time to dive into it yet. That said I wouldn't be surprised if they would be open to an inquiry about training or learning more if you reached out to them.

[@danwool]

@@DaveRat Thanks! Not a bad idea. I may reach out and see if they offer any kind of hands on demo for sound designers, or can otherwise advise me on the basics of what goes into delivering audio media for wavefront LED wall projects.

[@DaveRat]

Very cool and let me know how it goes

[@ramdynebix]

Summer 2022 we had a holoplot system in a 500(?) person tent for a conference type event. Playing music through it showed we had too little control over the bass because of too little hardware, but the highs were very tightly controlled. There was hardly another sound outside the tent.

[@ramdynebix]

Some of the demos here are very familiar.

[@ToastOnToast]

@DaveRat Thank you for the video. I'm curious, what would a transfer function look like for these speakers?

[@stingber]

This is same theory used for AESA Array Antennas 😃👍. The price tag make sense. Each individual component require a discrete amp, phase alignment and signal conditioning. Thankfully to advanced class D amps in a small form factor and high efficiency in dsp processing this is now possible. I think this will revolutionize the profesional audio market. Do you imagine this system in a live concert with the integration of SPAT Revolution: Flux Immersive a real time spatial environment?. This will be mind blowing. I look forward for more content related to this topic 😉👍.

[@DaveRat]

I don't see trying to synthesize live sound being popular for live sound. I see applications where the same scenario is repeated, like movies and trade ahows

[@Maxwaehrens]

Other companies are develping wavefront synthesis for home sound bars, so two people can sit in a room a small distance apart and listen to their own personal music or other entertainment

[@stingber]

Spat Revolution from Flux Audio allows you to enable Wave Field Synthesis (WFS) using a long row of speakers. It kind sounds like a Home TV sound bar right? But in this case, the beam is not steered is only one wide beam covering (wide even distributed coverage) the audience.

[@danmurphy2399]

This is some pretty cool tech. I think for typical concert applications this technology is miles away from being mainstream but I'm sure there will be some excellent deployments in commercial and attraction scenarios, creatives will be the driving force behind the adoption of this stuff I imagine.

[@Aio-Project]

It would be interesting to amplify an orchestra with these and aim the sound to activate room reverberations. Then, amplify a metal band in the same space and try to minimize reflections. Really incredible speakers, very interesting, thanks for sharing!

[@DaveRat]

So many fun things. When working with the EAW anys system I was able to do some of that. It was very easy to switch between focused and diffuse ( accurate coverage vs overly wide dispersion) And the impact was quite interesting.

[@DaftFader]

So cool! The diffused - direct sounds like you're listening to something in a warehouse gradually morphing into listening in a studio environment (except you're still in the warehouse)! I think the multiple focused beams of different audio might be used for targeted AD's in big cities in 2050! xD

[@DaveRat]

🤙👍🤙

[@Z00L..ChUpAcUpS]

Wow I'd love to hear that in person 😮❤

[@DaveRat]

Yeah I tried to get to the sphere last time I was in Vegas and will try again next time

[@davidkent2804]

Huge potential, especially for large multimedia presentations like HD films. I wonder where the threshold is where an audience will settle for less practically and this all becomes "too much", like the uncanny valley of sound.

[@DaveRat]

Dunno but in a way it's like a giant tv sound bar.

[@pressorv]

Edit: forgot I had playback at 1.25 speed . Am I hearing a wobble to the sound? It is really cool, thanks for sharing the experience

[@DaveRat]

Probably from my cell phone recording?

[@DaveRat]

Aha!

[@ampersandrew9295]

Trippy stuff! Thanks for sharing

[@DaveRat]

🤙🎛️🤙

[@SuperMcgenius]

Thanks Dave, very interesting tech.

[@artysanmobile]

Are the white panels on the floor absorbent? They appear to be and it would make sense that they are needed.

[@mboykin6047]

Looks a lot like the phased array radar that performs the same task of changing direction of the radar beam by controlling the phase of the many emitters.

[@DaveRat]

Yes similar concept

[@bblimediamostlyspeakers]

Very interesting technology indeed. It sounded very clear even with my laptop speakers. I noticed your comments near the end about these do have trade offs, and that physically time aligned drivers in a true point source horn reminds me of Danley Sound Labs. They do just that. I'd be curious to see a video of your thoughts on Danley's approach.

[@DaveRat]

Maybe check out my video on point source versus line array subs.

[@danilorosich]

This is great, thanks for sharing!

[@carlubambi5541]

Hi Dave hope all is well .I have a question on Dual voice coil sub being driven by a stereo amplifier .Does it cause damage to the amplifier .Example if the left chanel is only driven does it back feed a voltage to the right channel .Will this damage your amplifier .Are you better off with 2 woofers fed in stereo instead of 1 woofer with dual voice coil fed in stereo ..Do dual voice coil speakers damage your amplifier when fed in stereo .Great lab experiment

[@DaveRat]

If an amp is damaged by back EMF from the dual voice coil that would be almost the same as an amp being damaged by damping factor by sending a pulse to a speaker and having the rebound energy damage the amp. So in my opinion the answer is, if a double voice coil damages the amp you don't want that amp and it deserves to be damaged anyways. It does bring up an interesting aspect in that if something is panned hard to one side and one voice cause working The damping factor of the amp would put the brakes or slow down the other voice coil from moving so there will be some interaction not necessarily damaging to the amp but the signal could be affected

[@wh1972]

Don't you just love living in the future. This is awesome.

[@hoobsgroove]

How does it do that tho is it in the electronics

[@garyvaldez8699]

That’s a great sub test at the end 😂

[@zeusapollo8688]

Holy crap. Thanks for the explanation

[@yo3429]

How do they work when coupling is'nt defined anymore (5-20 kHz)? Wish I had a few hundred speakers for my own projects ;)

[@appleguyforeternity]

So how does this compare to other spatial audio systems like L'Acoustics L-ISA and d&b Soundscape?

[@electronik808]

is super cool! also what is this powersoft company? never heard of them (proudly Italian seems that we are still doing something good in audio)

[@andreaslorunser4112]

dave, thanks for the video. what do you think about useability in conventional concert situations say like open air, 2500pax? can it do such things? my usecase is a several weeks long festival right in the middle of a town with an open air stage. this causes problems with soundlevels every year of course. does it work for something like that? how good is the level reduciton outside the coverage area in reality? thanks alot.

[@DaveRat]

Low frequencies are messy and even with extreme control over where sound goes, lows and subs which are the primary issue which sound complaints, are not focusable without arrays that are significant in size relative to their wavelength. Think arrays that are like 100 feet wide and high. And even then, focusing sound is part of the battle, the reflected sounds will still be a big concern

[@philipbarrett3151]

Chiming in here on Dave's thread - we have done outdoor events with this system very successfully & there have been discussions with a very large scale festival for noise control as you describe. As Dave says below, the larger the array the better the LF control.

[@paulbruce4630]

Is it like ATMOS for live mixing?

[@bingdong8571]

So they can do dolby atmos without dolby atmos? Is that what im getting here?

[@DaveRat]

Yeah I guess they can definitely recreate a multi-source sound system and there are multiple sources in a surround sound configuration. There are other surround sound algorithms maybe look at L-Acoustics L-Isa which would probably be more appropriate for live sound

[@bingdong8571]

@DaveRat so is beam steering the same as dolby atmos?

[@DaveRat]

No it is not. To the best of my understanding, Atmos is a multi-point object-based system we're multiple sound sources can be sent to multiple speakers at varying levels to create an immersive experience. Beam steering is where you have an array of speakers all working together has a single complex speaker and by altering time and phase of the signal sent to those various speakers in the array you are able to point the sound in various directions. Kobe Atmos is like a field full of sprinklers where you can turn on and off various sprinklers at different levels Beam steering is like holding a hose and shooting it in various directions and having control over the width and distance of the spray

[@bingdong8571]

@DaveRat wow, thanks for the in depth response. I am a home theater guy that wandered into pro audio stuff. It is very interesting.

[@DaveRat]

👍🎛️👍

[@cajonosaurus]

Hey dave great content as usual, those speakers are flippin amazing , will u b adopting them into the ratsound family?..

[@DaveRat]

Not at this point, they do cool stuff but so do 3d and 4d movies and those are still niche low demand higher cost products. Are dying to go to and regularly attend 4D movies? Do you seek out and own a 3D television? Is so why and if not, why?

[@ericpr0278]

I just mixed a show at The Beacon in NYC with this system. It definitely an interesting concept, however it is my opinion that it is not really suitable for every show. Yet, it is sonically impressive in many ways.

[@DaveRat]

Agreed. Soundsystems are like cars. Sometimes you need an SUV, sometimes you need a sports car, sometimes the dragster and sometimes a sedan is the optimum tool for the job

[@kuglepen64]

Impressive, very nice.

[@DaveRat]

🤙🎛️

[@davidclark3603]

That was brilliant Dave! It's almost like a variable Bose system?

[@danielungureanu430]

Dear Dave, you mentioned that the speakers can project different sounds for different locations. But, as a listener, are you able to receive a 3D sound placement? I mean: does you feel different instruments are located in a 3D environment?

[@BobDLucas]

Hey! Not related to the video, but… I have a car audio buddy who swears by “oxygen free copper” wire. Meanwhile, I’m looking at my $5K pile of XLRs, and now I need to know… does oxygen free copper actually make a noticeable difference? Thanks!

[@DaveRat]

Sound wise doubtful there is a diff that is audible. But, oxy free copper is more pretty and tends to be easier to solder. I would need to test to be sure but experience tests me that electrons could care less about oxygen and just look at the resistance per foot and capacitance and inductance. The parameter matter, the materials only matter if they impact the parameters

[@sgommerable]

I was at a demo for some early beam steering arrays , the application was very cool in a small space. Not quite a musical as this , but very cool. Is this akin to an Anya rig?

[@dustinthiessen]

beyond all the "party tricks" do they actually sound good?

[@DaveRat]

Great question. In my opinion they sound pretty good. Not as good for pure music as conventional point source and line array designs. But they do sound pretty good, clear and have relatively powerful output. And pretty much like how the whole universe works, The more processing and party tricks you try and do the more sonic hits it takes. I have not mixed a live artist on it, and only heard it with played back music and my experience is that many systems can sound good for music playback but are challenged by live music. Reports from the sphere trend to focus on the party trick aspect more than the actual fidelity. It will be super interesting to see where the systems end up and if they catch on

[@JackNiles]

Great. Thanks for the information

[@christianmartinez1]

Spooky timing. I was literally googling info about the control system for the MSG sphere before bed. Haha found nothing though.

[@DaveRat]

Awesome

[@thenoisynomad]

A more complex idea DisneyWorld public spaces or ride queue areas can be way more immersive if you can’t just point to where the sound effects are coming from. Imagine the sound of a cricket reflecting off of one smooth spot on the tree of life.

[@DaveRat]

I could definitely see Disney embracing this

[@philipbarrett3151]

If you get a chance to visit any of the NA auto shows, Subaru are using this system to do close to what you describe.

[@TheZWSW]

Just went to U2 and the sound was just okay. I have certainly heard better. I also have doubts about the performance of the speaker since driver spacing is quite important for HF performance, see EAW Anya.

[@kevinpetit9886]

Great Video. 😃👍♥️

[@russell_szabados]

Cool man. Are they using tech like this at the Sphere in Las Vegas?

[@DaveRat]

Yes, this is the exact system units used in Vegas sphere

[@russell_szabados]

Thanks dude!

[@carlubambi5541]

By the way .Nakamici has a grazy sound bar with almost 3kw of power to do this and its made of stainless steel

[@Not-Only-Reaper-Tutorials]

Amazing

[@teckz0r]

Now these are big boy/girl toys now im just wondering how they hold up with elements change with a 500 to 1000 venue but with that price i'm guessing there ment for bigger things and things like imax theathers anyway's if i ever get to to have a chanse to lisen to these speakers in real life i would def drop whatever im doing at that time and have a go at it..would love to hear the 3d effects something like this can trow

[@twistedmovies8782]

"A bunch of drivers all connected to a horn..." welcome to danley soundlabs haha.

[@DaveRat]

Yeah, I guess danley is the other extreme. Pile everything super loud in as small a box as possible, ve spread out loads of tiny drivers in large areas for loads of control. And and between those two hyper extremes is pro line arrays and hifi systems that bands actually tour with people actually put in their living rooms .

[@keepinghe4235]

You can try EDC acoustics. It seems holoplot infringes EDC.

[@tomehCanada]

Is the $40,000 with all software, amplifiers and computers? Let's see Beolab 90 speakers are around $100,000 a pair? Have you ever them demo'd ?

[@searchiemusic]

dave i subscribed to you to experience the knowledge and information a human can give, i want you, not computer generated slop as filler images, i have to be completely honest, really puts me off, i'm not saying pay someone to make you art or whatever, but like, you're smart and i've seen you make videos without it before effortlessly, it's not like you need AI art dave, you are so far above it

[@ke6gwf]

Imagine this technology in a spy movie or psychological thriller whispering to a single person in a public space, or ads in some future city lol

[@flightdreams5169]

🤣all we need are ads following us as we walk down the street…..😮😳

[@DaftFader]

I thought the same thing about ads. If you watch Mark rober's haloween vid, he uses a single ray beam speaker to do the weird wispering in a very focused place and it was freaking people out big time. Not exactly the same, but the same end result just limited to one beam of audio.

[@ke6gwf]

@@DaftFader Ohhhhh, that sounds like fun lol Imagine using that in the entryway of a building to welcome people, but only in a specific spot...

[@DaftFader]

@@ke6gwf Yeah that's basically what he did. It was at the enterance of a few houses he had set up at on haloween, so when trick or treaters got to the door, only the first person would freak out and those behind them would be wondering WTF happened lol.

[@HazeAnderson]

"Congratulations! You heard the secret message! Take your coupon code to the lobby for a free snacks!" 😂

[@FOHFILMS]

Holoplot is very impressive stuff... But you know what's even more impressive? The Yamaha YSP-1 soundbar. Released in 2004, almost 20 years ago.

[@FOHFILMS]

The YSP-1 was a soundbar that featured 42 digital amplifiers, 42 DSP channels and 42 speaker drivers and was able to provide discrete 5.1 audio from a single array of drivers through multiple beams formed and reflected off of walls at the desired virtual speaker locations. Essentially the same as the "different audio sources for different areas of coverage" demo here. It also featured wavefield synthesis, mainly in the form of being able to adjust the center channel image's depth. The craziest feature? The remote control had a *built in microphone* that, when the "my beam" function was used, would send out a few pulses from the array and send the microphone's captured information OVER THE FREAKING IR BLASTER back to the main unit to compute a very precise, tight, singular mono sound beam aimed right at where the remote was being held... designed for personal/quiet listening. In 2004. Crazy.

[@eflizotte]

Sometimes I worry that in 20 years, I will be the guy interacting with a bunch of up-and-coming kids in the industry, and I tell them what it was like to mix on a line array and a digital desk, like the guys who I learned from told me about mixing on point source and analog

[@DaveRat]

🤙👍🤙

[@stpstudios]

Trippy ✌😺👍

[@davidbedee2341]

Imagine a restaurant with musically themed sections that used the multiple coverage areas

[@DmitryIlyushin]

This is might be cool for presentations and 3D, 4D, 5D… shows… But in live music it’s just doesn’t sound right especially in a very high frequencies 5K and above… these drivers are not close enough to each other to get good summation on that range, so if you will play same signal from all of these drivers at the same time it will give you lots of interference in a very high frequencies. Also how they can throw sound for long distance without any waveguide or any horn?… I went to U2 show and was able to walk around and listen, so it’s doesn’t sound as good as you expect from this new technology…. The all mid range sounds good and focused, but low end is muddy and not focused and there’s no high frequencies at all I mean there’s nothing from 4-5k and above and I think that they reduce that for a reason.

[@DaveRat]

I agree with all of that except for the need of a horn or waveguide to throw. Sound is an energy. Wave guides and horns don't create throw. They just reduce the dispersion so that more of the energy is focused in a certain direction and possibly make the speaker a bit louder by increasing the coupling efficiency Having a whole bunch of tiny little sources all recreating the same sound is almost the same or the same as one big source creating the sound. Very loud and focused long throw sounds can be created by multitudes of small drivers just the same as a singular large driver

[@DmitryIlyushin]

@@DaveRat thank you 🙏 yeah I meant that with more narrow you can throw highs for longer distances… For me personally I like how it works in EAW Adaptive systems that is more usable for live music.

[@DaveRat]

👍🎛️👍

[@tigeraudio]

I would like to see modern point source rigs that can cover arenas with modern tech applied to remove the issues we had when we couldn’t get the HF drivers close enough to avoid combing in the horizontal and vertical, the way modern line array systems do this in the vertical. There is something to be said for physical size when you want to control the largest wavelengths. How about a co-entrant rat trap that puts the HF drivers virtually several feet behind the boxes where all the HF drivers in the system virtually originate from the same point in space, and the entire front of the cabinet is the horn opening, with Dave’s “Focusing” applied to get rid of the internal reflections? Of course the grills have to have tiny LEDs on them so the people in charge of what is seen will allow it. If each box covers its own area, then the only steering needed is to match the shading, but I bet you can get close with tighter patterns for the longer distances. How fast can we load it in and out? Hey, I’m just an idea man. I’ll leave it up to you to figure out how to do it Dave.

[@DaveRat]

I would like to see that as well but it doesn't seem to exist at this point. Using increasingly directional horns to cover far away places and try and maintain volume consistency can work but gets large or more specifically makes the cabinets very deep and different in size. This makes traveling with them and versatile array configurations quite challenging. Additionally even when the volume over distance issue and coverage issues are resolved and minimize overlap interference issues using multiple point sources, The problem still remains of keeping sound off the roof and tight vertical coverage control. Lionaires do this fairly easily and with great accuracy and point source arrays have very little or no control over it unless line array type configurations are used. So you can see the quandary here, point sources tender work better when configured his line arrays. I think this is why there are no major tours traveling with point source systems at this point in time to the best of my knowledge. If you can find a band or artist traveling with a point source array doing arenas or larger please let me know because that would be very interesting Point choices are great they just don't scale well to large format audio coverage and transportation

[@tigeraudio]

@@DaveRat I want line arrays in both directions. I prefer the low frequency control you get with size more than the low frequency control you get with steering. I’ve played with most of it. Steering and smearing has its place. The manufacturers fought against the line array as the end all be all solution for a long time, rightly so, until they realized they could sell 10x as many boxes and ultimately that is what they care about most. Ultimately the challenge I think is in packaging it, then after that selling it. Turbosound seemed like they were getting there with the aspect but that wasn’t a large scalable solution. If we could have a line array that did a solid 180 degree pattern lows to highs, and we could just use the vertical angles to get more, further, that could reduce the number of hangs needed for horizontal coverage and reduce that horizontal combing. I haven’t seen anything that can do that yet. (have you?) There would need to be stearing drivers in the box to get the low mids and lows to behave.

[@DaveRat]

@tigeraudio interesting. My take is it the sound vendors and sound engineers are what pushed line arrays to the level they are now. Has a sound vendor having a point source system would be a nightmare. Having a line array that allows us to easily alter the coverage and use a single box size is absolutely genius. Add in the fact that we have control over volume versus distance and the fidelity is maintained and it's a huge win. Rock concert sound in order a magnitude better than they ever have and were able to cover longer distances with less gear and better coverage than ever. Much of this is due to the development and deployment of line arrays. Looking at it the other way, if point sources were so good how come nobody tours with them? I heard the aspect and the big issue is whenever you have side by side sources, The precision of our hearing in the horizontal domain divulges all of the problems. Also horizontal arrays have no control over the vertical and any indoor venue with a ceiling is compromised by not keeping the sound off of the ceiling. Yes there can be other solutions using point sources but they're all cumbersome and a huge bummer to deploy Hold on let me bring the whole PA down and switch out box number four with it 12° instead of 14° dispersion horn so we can get this point source system covering properly. Or let's change the angle between box number three and four and five oh and we're all good

[@tigeraudio]

@@DaveRat Yes, the end user definitely pushed for it. I recall Scovi really adopting VDOSC early on. Before that I only remember Yanni having it. What I mean is not to have horizontal instead of vertical but to have both at once. Logistically the horse is out of the barn, but the low end was well controlled in those huge point source rigs. The issues you refer to in the horrizontal and our ears are very substantial with line arrays 15-20feet apart. The coherance (inteligibility) suffers. Of course in that tiny line where they are equal time, there is no combing, but our heads aren’t quite small enough. Everywhere else where they overlap, its messy. What they are doing in the vertical, I also want in the horizontal, not one or the other, both. I don’t think we need to worry as much about the interbox angles in the horizontal if we can get the vertical the way we want. The trick will be physically being able to do it and rig it. We went to the moon though. I have not heard the aspect. Not all that eh? Why don’t people tour with big point source rigs? None exist that can do what we want, and money. At least initially line arrays were cost effective. Now, I’m not so sure. One of the manufacturer’s that pushed back heavily was Meyer, and I heard from one of the staff sales reps, John Meyer wasn’t interested at all in going down that road but once they talked him into it, they sold enough Milo to buy the company that made the Galileo etc, and he could afford to hire more scientist, etc. Again, it comes back to money, like everything else. Its always money. I have heard a lot of point source rigs in arenas that sounded fantastic though. The Nexo Alpha I was flying was extremely fast up and down. The 6 wide 4 deep rig (in the air) was only covering lower bowls. WOuld have had to double it for the entire hieght of most of the arenas. We had the audio truck loaded with backline, monitors, PA, etc in 48 minutes on the worst day. The day we had a ramp load but used house PA, it was 28 minutes. Not too bad. That is from downbeat of walk out music. We also didn’t carry video anything on those tours, so nothing in the way of getting in and out. I liked your side by side rig. You solved the problem of not enough line to get enough power. I am not anti line array though. I just don’t think that’s the end. We were there before, came back to it, but its time to move forward and revisit PS systems and bring back to it everything we have learned in the last 25 years. Personally, I would be happy to mix in clubs and theaters the rest of my. I find the bigger shows to lack intamacy. If you NEED imag, its too big, but a lot of visuals go to shows. We have to drive 3 hours here for most. I wish they did more, smaller stops rather than fewer large stops. I am happy with a good band, enough light to see them, and a great sounding PA. Don’t need any other “show” if the music is great. I drove through 4 states to see a band in a small cap club on tour break over the Summer. It was a line array. XSL. LOL. No joke, I was thinking it would be great if it was the same massive stacked PA I saw them on 25-30 years ago. It definitely wasn’t the same experience, but then I wasn’t up front headbanging either.

[@DaveRat]

@tigeraudio we had a nexo rig and briefly an aspect as well. Coverage bummer. Nexo, do you line or checkerboard the nexo? They both had significant issues. The EAW 960 rig, Meyer msl10, and that cluge of open back fiberglass and aluminum framed boxes from JBL we're all failed attempts at doing large format point source. Vertical line arrays are challenged in the vertical while pure and pristine in the horizontal. True single box point source is pure and pristine in both vert and horizontal. Combining vertical and horizontal into a grid or T or + or any other non 2 dimensional shape creates challenges in coverage and sound in both the vertical and horizontal That said, developments in that direction are being addressed by systems like Holoplot Going from point to line, is complex, as we see with computer modeling, precise angles and such. From line to grid is an order of magnitude more complex or just a huge diminish in sound quality and coverage, take your pick

[@schauft]

My ears perked when I heard Pink As Floyd :P

[@Ratso_au]

We need to get Michael Winslow trained up on the software that runs these arrays… and unleash him on the unsuspecting public!

[@DaveRat]

👍🎛️👍

[@szityin]

Headphoneless Silent Disco! (Joke). This thing is amazing

[@toonertik]

WOW.. how this industry has moved on from the 1970/80s when I used the then standard MIDAS/Martin systems.. and OMG, flying those things in cages that had an inherent wobble.

[@DaveRat]

Yes much has changed!. I started building speakers had doing parties and clubs in the late 70s early '80s. I saw a lot of The systems in but didn't start with flying gear until late '80s

[@toonertik]

@@DaveRat My start was recording my school bands on 2 valve tape mchns in 1967.. during the early 70's I bought a Deckorder 4 track (cheap TEAC 4 trk) and recorded live bands in pubs etc.bands often got me to mix.. and that was it.. I effing loved it. Actually my first professional gig was as a wireman for Trident on the A & B range hand wired desks mid 70's then I got my MIDAS mixers (FOH/Mon).. still do sound.. modular synths now.. love it. BTW I really enjoy your channel .. mad speaker_man ;-))

[@DaveRat]

All of that is so cool! And thank you! Love the The audio note adventures and the evolution of all the cool stuff

[@hotweelz87]

Wow! Lol that's trippy

[@zeroUnitygain]

I work there

[@specificaudiosolutions8131]

Powersoft... no ends...❤❤❤

[@weareallbeingwatched4602]

Gaussian splatting for audio...

[@66fitton]

Just had a crazy thought... What if you combined ATMOS mixing with these boxes!!?? Maybe you could create more than the one "sweet spot" and give the majority of the audience the same experience! Okay, I did just hit the bong, but seriously, that would be nutty to play around with!

[@johnsuparko9900]

diffuse vs direct is insane. i hear women walk an talk from far and slowly walk and talk in front of my face

[@MrTONESHOP]

HOLOPLOT = Made in Berlin, Germany

[@DaveRat]

👍🤙👍🔊🔊🔊

[@drlarcey]

I would say the movie industry will get the second win with this I don't know that my manager application is that great for sound because I really want a low stage volume but I can see Hollywood just eating this up seriously this will be killer for the movies

[@TheAnimalWay]

[@lessgooooo]

Amazing

[@szityin]

Headphoneless Silent Disco! (Joke). This thing is amazing