VEILGUARD IN REVIEW | Following The Dread Crumbs | Dragon Age Podcast #5

[@Shelbzz]

In the beginning, I liked the game so much that I created multiple characters so I could have finishes. Then I finished one play through and could not finish the others. For me, it was the writing/dialogue and then the romances (or lack there of) that were issues to me. I feel like more time was spent on making the game look gorgeous than creating a cohesive story with rich friendships/relationships/romances. I also romanced Lucanis. I disagree that it’s a slow burn. If that were true, Neve wouldn’t hook up with Lucanis before Act 3. Lastly, I feel like Neve was more of the main character than Rook.

[@RockoEstalon]

All the romances for Rook are slowburn, you can't get locked in a romance before the really last part of Act 2. It's missing that feeling of you adventuring with your LI like in previous games since by the time the romance gets locked you're about to do the Point of no Return quest.

[@RockoEstalon]

30:50 here's something I was thinking after playing. "Dragon Age 4" should have been about chasing Solas through Tevinter, Dragon Age 5 should have been about the Evanuris being free.

[@fallhayv8470]

And also Solas should've succeeded in tearing down the veil. It would be a much more interesting shakeup of the universe than Executors Also it could be feasibly tied to all the forshadowing from previous games: Witch Hunt DLC Morrigan telling about "change coming", Sandal is DA2 giving us a prophecy about Solas, Flemeth in Inquisition talking about "The reckoning that will shake the very heavens"...

[@RockoEstalon]

@@fallhayv8470 If Solas had teared the Veil the whole world would have collapsed. There was no possible way to keep the franchise going with that outcome.

[@fallhayv8470]

@@RockoEstalon not necessarily. Yes, a lot of people would die. Just like entire of Orleis and Ferelden in DAV. Tons of demons killing people initially. But also demons and spirits are sides of the same coin - Wisdom/Pride, Determination/Spite, Justice/Vengeance, etc. Eventually the survivors would learn how that works, some people would learn to live in harmony with spirits, some would wage an endless war with them. I see this to be bad for status quo, but ultimately it is just change, that causes many deaths at start, but also brings possibility.

[@RockoEstalon]

@@fallhayv8470 At least 90% of people in Thedas would die, and that's a best case scenario. Not sure if you payed attention to Inquisition, specially the Tresspasser DLC:

[@fallhayv8470]

@RockoEstalon again, not necessarily. I am not sure where did you get that number, but ultimately only writers would have the final say in who dies and who does not.

[@Lawbrary]

Harding: “I’m a scout let me lead the team.” Me: “good idea! This should keep you safe since you won’t be with me in the main group.” 😮

[@SarAnna2195]

Oh that thing was dirty. That choice is a loose/ loose situation, what do you mean MY BEST FRIEND GREY WARDEN (everyone loves the wardens) or Harding? That ...ufff....

[@Lawbrary]

@ I gasped

[@Evamaster456]

40:00 Couldn’t agree more! It’s almost like the writers had to spell everything out to remove all ambiguity for some reason. Instead of allowing the player to process what they saw in the murals themselves and then choose to seek out their companion’s opinions Veilguard decides to force a sit down where everything is spelled out for you beyond a shadow of a doubt. This hand holding is present throughout the game but especially in those murals. I really do miss the nuance.

[@RockoEstalon]

The companions doing really dumb comments didn't help also, mainly Taash talking just to say "They were definitively doing it" and going "YES!" because dragons get mentioned. Not that previous games lacked corny jokes but the execution (and placement) here is baffling.

[@Evamaster456]

@@RockoEstalon Agreed, I wish the dialogue was a bit more in line with the past games. Not that everyone was speaking in a Shakespearean manner, but the dialogue felt less modern and more appropriate for the setting/ type of time period.

[@RockoEstalon]

​@@Evamaster456 While I agree, I think even in a vacuum the dialogue is clunky. There's too much explanation, talk about feelings, badly placed quips (Rook saying "that's no ominous" gets less funnier each time, not that it's ever funny). The whole writing in itself is something that requires a whole video because I don't think a youtube comment can do it justice. And as much as I would like to excuse it on the rocky development, Dragon Age 2 had like 11 months only and the writing there feels like Tenesee Williams compared to DATV.

[@Evamaster456]

@@RockoEstalon Yeah, I think there had to have been something going on behind the scenes. Going from the quality of writing in Tevinter Nights to Veilguard is crazy. It could be the result of rewrites internally or an EA mandate to channel MCU dialogue. This game desperately needs some kind of behind the scenes documentary or article.

[@RockoEstalon]

@@Evamaster456 Too soon yet and I doubt people want to lose their jobs. But just the fact that so many creatives left the company almost at the same time I think it's enough proof that producer control was getting out of hand.

[@RockoEstalon]

In a "void" I find Veilguard quite fun and with enough emotional moments to justify playing the game a couple of times, but just checking old stuff like the encounter with Inquisitor Ameridan, conversations with Loghain in DAO or the banter between Fenris and Anders in DA2 makes Veilguard feel like a spin-off rather than a sequel.

[@Kserijaro]

Dragon age from temu

[@rachelmaher1310]

I think this is where I get confused by people who say the game is just okay but they’ll do a couple of playthroughs. I have games I fill the void with that I a.) barely make it through a full playthrough and b.) would never play twice. Diablo VI is the most recent example I can think of. Are you really filling a void if you are committing to that much game time? Genuine question. I don’t know why but people seem to be having a hard time just saying they like the game without adding a caveat.

[@RockoEstalon]

@@rachelmaher1310 Not really sure where the confusion comes from. I like the game while thinking is not great and it has weak writing and I played it multiple times to exhaust the possibilites the game has. The fighiting is also decent, not the best Action RPG system I have seen but way better than Inquisition's. Two playthroughs of a game isn't that much, at least for me. I played DAO like 6 times and Inquisition 4 if I'm not mistaken. I'd also be honest about issues I find in games, rather that pretending Veilguard is flawless like some do.

[@MrMilla22]

Agreed

[@Joshuaraymalan]

00:58:34 For me, the entire Butcher of Treviso conversation fits the bill of what you are describing for standout conversation moments. He's like a more refined, worldly version of the Arishok in DA2, and the Treviso subplot could have used a whole lot more of him. I low key wish they would have had an option to side with him and his vision, not necessarily because I would chose it, but because he embodies that tonal grayness that I think this game could use a little more of. The whole conversation, I'm like this, this is the kind of villain I love in a DA game.

[@liraelgirl8]

43:00 Regarding the companion quests, I would have preferred if those quests were framed as 'we need to weaken the gods' allies' before we proceed since for most of those quests, if you don't complete them, the final baddie shows up in the final push in Minrathous. Unrelated but, I know it's because we only have 7 to work with but there are no "missable" companions in DAV. We recruit & keep everyone we meet.

[@eleanoraaacr3372]

Right? If they're gonna overtly tell us 'go do this thing', at least that would make more sense because it clearly ties into the final quest. Because the companions (mostly) feel like fleshed-out adult characters who I honestly don't think would allow personal differences/stress to stop them from what is fundamentally a very serious task (the main quest), so the whole 'you must help your companions be their best selves to stand the best chance of success' narrative just feels very clunky and out of place. I loved the game, but man the hand-holding and micro-managing on the part of the writers is excessive at times. I'm just tuning it out on my follow-up runs, but it's sad that there are elements of the game that *need* to be tuned out.

[@LamboDA]

The accents at the beginning of this episode did psychic damage to me and I will be pressing charges

[@JackdawYT]

🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@violetbliss4399]

I don't think it was only EA primarily, I also think the long years and devs coming and going, a new part of Thedas in the 4th game of an arc, a new art style again, new characters again... there's more, but add that together and it becomes incredibly difficult to put that together. I don't know how much of that was necessity pivots but, all put together is just too much change. I think there's other highs and lows about the game, but that's just a foundation I think nobody would ideally prefer.

[@skywaveprime2257]

Lacanis romance is not a slow burn. A slow burn is like lighting a scented candle, and it burns slow until it fills the room with its lovely smell. Lacanis romance is nothing like that. It is more of trying to keep a bb grill lit but can't because the wind is too high. 😂 his romance is too quiet. Also, this game made my mc feel invisible most of the time. Companions talk at you, not with you. I almost felt like a mother figured. Everyone else was a star while im trying to figure out how im supposed to fit in.

[@MidoriDad]

Got my platinum trophy, now to reinstall Baldur's Gate and wait on Mass Effect

[@minashepard1255]

I loved playing Veilguard and I agree with you all it could have been so much more. There were just a lot of missing pieces here and there. Nevertheless I look forward to my second playthrough.

[@gwencarmichael]

I'm afraid of each Dragon Age trying to one up itself, each villain becoming greater and greater to the point that we fought gods. Dragon Age with the reset needs to limit the scope again, make the stories more personal, and low fantasy.

[@MG-ou4qd]

I maxed out all factions and made all companions heros of the Veilguard during my first playthrough. I've stopped my second one. I've made a pretty significant different choice this time around during gameplay, but it really doesn't change things that much. It's so linear. An okay time when I first played it, but I can't do it again. I've replayed all other DA games at least 5 times.

[@jizamkizam9611]

Honestly this should have been part 1 of a Northern Thedas trilogy. Start with the concept of building the team and getting to know the big players and places of northern thedas. End it with catching up to Solas and having the old gods free. Part 2 would be more like what we got with this game but way more indepth. And then part 3 could be the whole new thing with the Executors tease

[@jessicatate3162]

Lucanis's relationship doesn’t feel complete to me 🤷🏼‍♀️ What you get is good, but it doesn’t feel as complete as Davrin and Emmerich romances. I agree. This should have been two games. The Joplin artwork makes me want to cry when, all of the awesome stuff that could have been. The dialogue feels like a cozy game to me. I try not to compare things but BG3 IMO changed the genre and Vailguard got left behind a little.

[@spicyyams9426]

I saw another KZbinr refer to some of the dialogue as "Disney like" in a negative context and sadly I have to agree, some of the companion dialogue felt very fluffy and childish. While some of it was kind of funny, it was missing a lot of the more tongue in cheek humour from inquisition. Inquisition had silliness but it was well thought out and the moments of humour felt organic. Some of the humour in Veilguard felt forced and cringy. Lucanis had some pretty funny moments though.

[@vaeirin]

I was really hoping to hear your thoughts about Varric's fate and his role in the Veilguard. It was one of the things that made me really emotional in the game, especially in my second playthrough. Besides that If I would have to rate the game I would also give it 7-8/10 but mostly because of the lack of a mature tone to it, Inquisition was perfectly balanced for me. But I'm hopeful to the future and can't wait to hear some more from Bioware. In preparations for Avowed I'm playing Pillars of Eternity 1 for the first time at the moment and I just wanted to say that after the Veilguard it's like fire and water, the game it's sooo dark, so I know what Marshall is talking about 😅 can't wait to hear Lambo's opinion about the game. ❤

[@Lawbrary]

In a way, Ghily was our broodmother. I screamed mother every time she appeared.

[@viviennebrielle]

New Sub! ❤ I've watched your videos a few times bc DA has been my favorite franchise since DAO. I started the series at 10 years old. Im now 25. I've transitioned, fallen in love & lived. It hurts to see the final product of DAV. Ill always love & support tbe franchise, but i do feel let down. But im grateful to have the game, overall. I was screaming at my phone agreeing with yall on everything!! Lol 😂❤

[@Joshuaraymalan]

01:06:46 I think my feelings on this game are very similar to DA2: I love this game, and at the same time I mourn what might have been.

[@SarAnna2195]

I've just finished the game today...went through those three plot twists and that ONE romance scene in one sitting...I cried 10 years ago during the epilogue...when credits rolled today I was so...ufff...there is a lot of thoughts and most of them are "yup...ppl were right...this doesnt feel Dragon Age..."

[@wildescar]

This was great, thanks guys. Agree with everything. Loved the closure and the Solas closure but so much didint hit the mark.

[@MsRedNebulaPlays]

You hit the nail on the head, both for everything I loved and everything I couldn't quite love about the new game, but for one thing that bothered me. Miranda Raison came up with such a lovely Nevarran accent, and apparently the rest of Nevarra was just like, "Nah." 😂 I really want to know how Emmrich would sound with that accent! Regardless, when I do play again I'm going to romance him, so I'm glad the romance spoilers got belayed; I was hovering a finger over the 'skip forward' button just in case. Overall, good talk all. There's plenty about this game I wish it could've been, but at the same time, I thoroughly enjoyed my first playthrough and it's still so surreal to have a new Dragon Age game!

[@Slim-jx5wi]

I love the DA franchise, but Rook is just a therapist for the companions unfortunately

[@edwardmcswain4975]

As soon as the credits roll we start again!

[@rachelmaher1310]

I think some of the criticisms are fair. The Crows feel more like a merchant prince family and The Lords of Fortune are just sort of there with no great impact on the plot at all. The romances also feel uneven, with some romances feeling like content is missing (Lucanis) and others more fleshed out (Emmrich.) But man, some people just seem like they are trying to gaslight themselves into not liking the game. One of the commenters complained that they felt like Harding saying “hey, this area is open now, go check it out” was too obvious. Harding is literally your scout. That’s her job. Guess what happens if you don’t travel with her in your party? I’ve heard the criticism that characters don’t react enough to the events of the game and everything feels too positive. Then in another breath people complain that Lucanis and/or Neve is an asshole for leaving your party for a small period of time when their city is destroyed. I’m starting to doubt people would be able to handle more of that from the rest of your companions. A lot of the things people are wishing existed legitimately do exist in game but everyone is so focused on not getting what they wanted that they are missing what’s actually there.

[@rachelmaher1310]

Again complaints about the companions not having their little things like in the past (Cassandra being the big example with her romance novels.) What about Bellara with her Dock town serials? You can encourage Neve to help her find more for Bellara. What about the fact that Taash cooks for their mother even though they have such a rocky relationship? What about Hardings Ham and Jam’s (or Yam and Jam’s for Emmrich). What about Neve’s micro mystery with the whisps in the lighthouse? Or the fact that Davrin carved figurines for his own personal bestiary? As I’m listening to this commentary all I can think is “you guys clearly didn’t hug Assan or play rock, paper, scissors with Manfred.” 🤦🏻‍♀️😂

[@gwencarmichael]

I think Jackdaw is right, about wanting to shift the plot away to another continent. In the AMA they mentioned Minrathous as being the "diplomatic center" of Thedas, seemingly setting the story to be about an incursion from across the sea. I mean another one. But serious this time.

[@icebearcriminal1265]

The Executors were a recurring illuminati joke... Can't believe they made it a serious plot point let alone one this impactful. There's a reason their first mention is an in-world pulp novel like jeez

[@mickeyveach3612]

I don't think it was meant to be a joke. Especially given some of the war table missions involving them.

[@Joshuaraymalan]

Ironically, the lack of spice in the romance is probably the most DAO it gets lol. Honestly, I would have been fine with romance, if they would have had a little bit more. There's just not enough IMO.

[@calimel9092]

i was hyped playing the game exploring it and it might be the time that passed but i feel like its not that kind of game i was looking for, challenging, keeping track of potions or combs. the other thing is that the romance did feel less... worked out? i like the slow burn for lucanis in my first play through but in the end it feels really unrewarding. i know. i get the world but it just seems like the companions are more invested in eachother than with the player. for example hardings camping trip. it would be such a opportunity to show us WHAT is happening in the south, that it is not all well and he has all the rights to BE worried. Some might say shes a strong character, trying to not show her problems but the way she talked about her home? hearing that news and seeing the results of it? she could have been more like... devastated i guess. emmrich has a wonderful romance. reserved and mature, but still loving. but i do think there is so much more potential that missed some of the characters. i have the feeling that it does not matter what you choose. you start as rook and you fight solas, thats a straight line the outcome might differ in a way but everything inbetween feels now more like a farming to reach the point to fight him and not... something that was nessicary.

[@calimel9092]

I just feel like afterwards... the other games (choices) where in the end kind of irrelevant. reduced to 3 choices. does the inquisition life? who did you romance? will you destroy solas or fight for his redemption? everything feels so... lost

[@SquAshe]

At this point, my wife and I are just going to write our own version of Joplin. 😆 Have Taash be raised by dragons, bring back Calpernia and Imshael, have Spite be a PROBLEM to be fixed/helped, and she’s having her Rook become a party member too (LoF Saboteur). And BRING BACK THE MAGIC DUMAT-SUB.

[@REIL2LYFE]

The British male voice is so so SO good. On my 1st playthroughi was very impressed on how great he was on his delivery in situations in the game. Peek. 😚👌 I made my Rook a crow and he was very sarcastic. (I can't help myself, my MC is always sarcastic) Basically he turned into Zevran....ngl.

[@MoreenCarvan]

I am taking my time with my first playthrough. I am enjoying myself along the way and will play it through multiple times in the next year. There is a lot here.

[@Kserijaro]

You are reason why modern games are shit

[@AeschylusShepherd]

It’s clear the either the writing was dumbed down for new players or they literally kept rewriting it to the point the dialogue makes no sense because they kept repeating themselves over and over. It’s heart breaking because I know they could do better.

[@edwardmcswain4975]

Where is Varric’s body?

[@Mrnickstr89]

3:15 Marshall is me

[@katharinamarschall5662]

The Veilguard feels like a fanfiction. Plain characters, lore of the older games is partially ignored, MMO inspired levels, the bad dialogues, motivations are changed entirely, like in Solas who also becomes an agent instead of pulling the strings, as it was suggested in Trespasser. No thanks, someone else my play and even enjoy it, but I tried and didn’t.

[@KeithMenzer]

This video and its comment section exemplify why I don't really believe people when they say that they like the game. They say that they love it, and then; 95% of what follows is about how disappointing everything is.

[@Mrnickstr89]

1:16:15 💯

[@viscerallyfemme]

I like the game in the mildest sense, i found myself just wanting to get to the end to see the story over. I can see so much potential everywhere and I wish all the ideas and story that were implemented had like another round of development to take it from a good to a great. As a combat enjoyer in all the games i found this version a boring game of rock-paper-scissors. Not to mention most of the abilities just go against the lore! why can wardens who arent mages summon flaming swords or rogues make electric beams? even the weakest excuse in the description would have made me happier

[@SarAnna2195]

Rouges with magic are...Artificers? I mean I went through the game thinking Bellara was a rouge, in the last battle she called herself a mage 😅😂

[@raerae1518]

I finished the game in the first week having been super excited for it. I have played all the DA games on release and used to be a massive bioware fan. The game was weak in a lot of ways that have been very thoroughly covered. BUT No one seems to be talking about the fact that EA apparently doesn't like women, especially women like me who actually have breasts and hips and don't want a square jaw and a wierd 5 o clock shadow. Your character can literally change anything about their appearance except have any obvious femine attributes. I've heard people say that this is an armour mechanic thing or that there were developement issues. BUT They actually tell us why they've done girl gamers dirty ... they have Taash say no one likes being a woman ... and you can't disagree! I've been gaming 30+ years and as a girl gamer i feel something has gone very wrong when a game says it's all about DEI but then does this! Honestly have never felt more disrespected by the devs in an RPG.

[@rachelmaher1310]

I got the option to say I like being a woman 🤔

[@raerae1518]

@rachelmaher1310 I honestly don't remember having that as an option, but I was mad as heck hearing them say that so it's possible I missed it. Thanks for letting me know ❤️

[@rachelmaher1310]

@@raerae1518 I had to scroll down for it. I think it had a star icon because I was a female character and it was an additional choice. Something to keep an eye out for if you do another playthrough.

[@mancitypj]

This is very strange. You criticise the game for nearly 2 hours and then say that you loved it. Very odd.

[@lKotal]

You can be hightly critical of something and still enjoy it. For me, Bayonetta 3 was dissapoiting story wise and I wish it was better, but it was really fun to play and replay it.

[@lisdraconis2212]

You can criticize a game and still love it. I also love Dragon Age still as a whole and DAV had very good moments. I think the citics are actually evident on how passionate they are about the series.

[@mancitypj]

@@lKotal yes, I can see your point.

[@rachelmaher1310]

@@lKotalhonestly this whole review sounds like they are trying to gaslight themselves into not liking the game. It’s so weird.

[@justcast1429]

Ten years for them to deliver this steaming pile of trash

[@awiyaann2826]

i now class veil guard more as a dlc of trespasser myself please do not mistake me i love veil guard but i do not class it a game 4 Rook is a great toon the game had so much potential but they did so much wrong the choice between cities was useless, the way the wrote Taash was too in your face, the lords were not my fave faction i do not like them i am afraid what they did to Isabella was horrid it is a crying shame the devs shouid be ashamed to be clear i am not anti trans i support them fully they deserve every right that we all have but they took taashes role to far my faveourite scene is rooks with varrics mirror where you can choose to be trans which i have done twice now it is so well done it made me cry i am afraid i did not like bellara much either she reminded me to much of a dysney princesses emmierich,davrin,and lucanis are very well done and neve is not bad but i miss dorian as a companion

[@Lilac-and-Gooseberries]

Apparently according to leaks, I have no idea if this is true or exaggerated, Veilguard sold around two million copies the first month but over three hundred thousand of those were refunded.

[@SapphicSara]

The Veilguard Remains Vigilant tease really does erk me a lot knowing there will be no DLC or anything. Like I like these characters but without a DLC no they won't, most of the cast is Qunatum characters. 4/7 characters can be some flavor of fucked up and while I think it doesn't make sense for Davrin or harding to die and the blight was removed from Neve and Bellara they would have to basically be like "Okay well they all end up fine anyway and also your choices in their routes more or less don't change things. Turns out Manfred does come back no matter what and everyone has both sides of their choices represented" which makes sense because a lot of them really did not feel like exclusive choices. Like Neve can be an inspiration and be willing to get down and dirty, Harding can be angry and keep herself, Taash can connect to two cultures that what' people in the real world do, The Griffians can be raised in Arlathen as defenders and then connect to Wardens and if they chose join them and if they don't remain in the forest. It's really just Bellara, Lucanis and Emmrich's choices that can't really coexist.

[@Mrnickstr89]

1:10:45 I could see it going that direction as that’s the easiest path. Hope to Andraste thats not the case.

[@SapphicSara]

I didn't even like the fade prison or the final act. To me they also felt really hallow. I did not regret a single action I took so the regret prison didn't make me feel anything. Why would I be upset about choosing between Neve and Bellara, they should have worked together on the ward, why should i care about if I chose Davrin or Harding they should have worked together too, why should I feel bad that I told Varric to talk to Solas, that's what he wanted to do, I don't regret that. I was just annoyed at the fade prison that it was trying to guilt me over false choices since no matter what you regret them. It have been more effective to make choices I at least had some real agency in be regrets but even then I can't think of a single choice in the game that I'd regret really. Choosing between the cities rook literally splits the team 50/50, I'm sorry that I am apparently a hard carry for the team but Rook is not magically special so where Rook went doesn't matter. Stopping Solas, I personally would be fine with the veil being destoyed if there was an actual open communication and safety taken but he was working totally alone at this point doing awful shit so don't regret that even if it unleashed the gods, there's literally no proof they wouldn't have escaped anyway.

[@utopiandystopia1383]

sounds like this game suffered a lot of cut content and cut corners after 10 years of development hell. who couldve seen that coming 🥱

[@AeschylusShepherd]

It’s clear the either the writing was dumbed down for new players or they literally kept rewriting it to the point the dialogue makes no sense because they kept repeating themselves over and over. It’s heart breaking because I know they could do better.

[@Kserijaro]

No they cant. Bioware is dead and it died with DA 2 and Mass Effect 3

[@SarAnna2195]

Our team can do it. Whatever it takes. We will strike the gods down. Elgarnan and Ghilanain. We'll strike the gods. We are a team. OKAY. Meanwhile the Andrastrian lore- what's this? 😶‍🌫️