Veilguard's Secret Ending {Lore/Theory. - Spoilers All}

[@135791113ab]

One note: Anaris ABSOLUTELY knows what a Qunari is. If a Qunari Rook fights Anaris, Anaris will deliver a scathing racist rant against them, using the term "Filthy half-breed" to refer to Qunari. Bellara will also note that there's clearly some connection between Anaris and the Devouring Storm in Dialogue with Taash if certain conditions are met. In contrast, Mythal's fragment will note with some bemusement that Qunari didn't exist in her day, so whatever *did* happen there that Anaris is aware of, it was after Mythal's (first) death (timeline-wise).

[@Alazander]

In the build up of Bellara's questline, I really thought the reveal was going to be that Anaris wasn't trying to make demons, but Qunari. I'm not entirely sure I'm wrong-- the elves did become or summon demons, but Anaris also claims that something went wrong. I thought the obvious clue was the giant horns he wears.

[@GoodMenstruationAttitude]

Weird, my Qunari rook fought Anaris and I didn't get more than a couple words from them about it. Maybe I killed them too quickly..? idk

[@CanadianMoose272]

Ohh, that's really interesting context for people who haven't played a Qunari. Thanks!

[@TwilitFall]

@@GoodMenstruationAttitude You were too OP, like me. I didn't get half the fun dialogue for my elven Rook that I keep seeing elsewhere.

[@CBonduMiel]

I bet y'all they'll make the executor the forgotten ones or a new race that created the qunari as a race. Some sort of precursor race that create the other races, aka the makers as they "made" spirit/the titan/qunari/human and they're just hidden away on another continent. Same thing as the reaper from mass effect, and they're gonna come to thedas to wipe the continent clean and recreate stuff anew or at least repair what was broken over the whole timeline of the lore. Aka they're gonna repair the titan, turn the elf back into spirit, remove the dragon dna from the qunari and do whatever to humans. Bet you they're like reaper from mass effect they just experiment, let thing evolve and when thing go wrong they just wipe the continent clean. The continent of thedas might as well be as whole experiment for them to toy with lol. And they're gonna all that with magics, either that or they're gonna make a crossover and make the reaper come to the dragon age universe lol, making both franchise go full circle and make it into 1 universe. Hell, thedas is just 1 continent on 1 planet it might already be in the mass effect universe, just the reaper didn't touch them until now because they weren't deemed advanced enough.

[@esajin]

The lore about what lies beyond the Amaranthine Ocean is surprisingly deep and interconnected with a lot of otherwise unrelated events. The point of entry is Hafter, the legendary Alamarri hero who lead humanity to victory during the Second Blight. After becoming the first Teyrn of Ferelden, he decided to sail East across the sea and was never found. His sword, which he brought with him, was found on the other hand: Yusaris, the Dragonslayer. The sword on the main menu screen of Dragon Age Origins, was found by the Hero of Ferelden after completing the ritual of the Watchguard of the Reaching, a ritual that is eerily reminding of the invasion of the Black City by the Magisters Sidereal. The sword itself was in the hands of the Shah Wyrd, a spirit of considerable power. Before Hafter, this sword was property of Hafter's rumoured father, Dane, another Alamarri legend. Dane found Yusaris in the lair of Fenshal, a Dragon, literally the Bane of Wolves. Dane used this sword to slay the Werewolf, but not before spending "a year and a day all told" with their lives swapped. Dane lived as a wolf, the werewolf lived as a human hunter. Coincidentally, "a year and a day" is the exact wording of the time Andruil wanted Fen'harel to serve in her bed before being interrupted by Anaris in the tale Fen'Harel and the Tree. There's, of course, more, much more. Dane and Hafter are a rabbit's hole across all games, if you want to dive there. Speaking of Anaris, there's also his Forgotten Friend, Geldauran. His codex entry (Geldauran's Claim, from Jaws of Hakkon) is very reminiscent of the wording the devs use to describe their intent with the lines uttered by the ???? figure in the post credits scene. It's also extremely ominous.

[@ace0071000]

Adding some more slightly disjointed info: According to older comics, Qunari believe King Calenhad, the first of Theirin line, has drank the blood of a Great Dragon, and it was passed onto his children and so on - were TATS interested in Loghain because he was about to end the Theirin bloodline? Was Flemeth saving Alistair in Ostagar more than she was saving HoF? What would that mean for Kieran if he was fathered by Alistair? Flemeth is implied to have very involved history with Theirins - was she, either as Mythal or as a Witch of the Wilds, countering TATS? Bonus point: the only known active Great Dragon is known as "The Queen of Dragons" - "Dragons don't have Kings"

[@Deilmo_]

One thing that bugged me about the Executor is- When the launch trailer aired out I saw Vorgoth in one of the scene and went "Wow, he really looks like an executor." Then I completely forgot about it until now. But- He does look like one. In a conversation with a mournwatcher Rook about Lichdom, Emmrich himself says that "no one knows what Vorgoth is". The mournwatcher should be the best informed people on the matter of spirits. If they don't know what Vorgoth is, it most likely means it's neither spirit nor (un)dead that they know of. I also find that Vorgoth also talk similarly to the Executors of the secret ending, less stilted but it could be explained by his proximity to people. I wouldn't be surprised if Vorgoth was also an executor hiding in plainsight. But how did he end up in the Mournwatch, how long has he been there and to what end is what i can't figure out.. (It also seem like his model in the gamefiles was named "Executor", it could be a scrapped concept for the Executors that ended up being used for Vorgoth's model and not renamed. But it's.. a weird coincidence if true.) In a more general note regarding the Executors, I've wondered why the Executors cared about Solas so much in TN and what I came up with was close to what you thought about. The Executors seem to want Thedas for something and the gods were too much of a danger for them to try it before knowing they were all dealt with. Not only that, but all the things they seem to have influenced HAS fragilized Thedas. The Blight fragilized the ruling of Ferelden, Kirkwall shattered the templar order, the circles and shook the chantry. Inquisiton put the whole world in a tight spot and caused the Antaam to break apart from the Qun. Veilguard has a majority of the world in shamble because of the damage the blight caused. Thedas post Veilguard is in an extremely fragile state because of all that happened in the last 20 years. When I saw that secret ending I wondered what was the point, but when i sat down and thought about it. To me, it looks like destabilization tactics. Fragilizing all the important structures of nations so that they pose less of a fight when an invasion barges in. Perhaps explaining why Thedas might be referred as a "rotten fruit" ready to be plucked. I also do wonder if the Executors and those across the sea are linked one way or another to the isolation of Thedas. It hasn't been a relevant lore thing for a while, but Thedas is greatly isolated from any other possible continent. All expeditions outside of its bounds were unsucessful and the expeditions TO Thedas can be counted on one hand so far. It could be completely normal if we think people from Thedas haven't grasped the technology necessary to sail across the sea, but it also could be.. "voluntary"? The isolation of Thedas could serve for something. Whether to keep something IN Thedas or OUT of it. We don't have enough informations about it for now, but the growing relevance of groups outside of Thedas might bring new information some day. Sorry for the big comment, but these ideas have been bouncing around in my head since I finished the game and I feel like i'm going insane over it!

[@districtstitcher]

Right?! WHAT IS VORGOTH. I wonder if he could end up being an Executor that broke away, somehow.

[@Deilmo_]

@@districtstitcher I'm going insane over Vorgoth. To me, I wonder if Vorgoth is an observer for the Executors. Someone on the inside that watch how things unfold in Thedas.

[@ShoppingAttic]

Don't be sorry for your in depth comment, love it!!

[@gabbygirl9600]

I love how much thought went into what you wrote. The whole thing for me is like wondering if this ties in somehow with a time magic loop or something. The word “guided” makes me think back on the Dorian quest where all the red lyrium had been used in inquisition, and they went into the future like a year or something. This is obviously a long shot and I think what you said makes way more sense. But what if they’re trying to “correct” something that had happened counter to what they wanted originally? Just some weird thoughts. But yeah I thought about Virgoth being connected somehow as well because of the design of the character and some of the clues you mentioned. There’s just so many unanswered questions

[@Deilmo_]

@@gabbygirl9600 When I first explained that whole thing to a friend, the Executors reminded me a lot of the secret ending of Dragon's Dogma 2- If there's a fifth Dragon Age we'll get answers!

[@RanadielMarius]

I think the Devouring Storm is the Abyss from Elvish mythology. The ancient elves were a magic based society. So it makes sense that they would consider a substance or location that just eats magic as being an abyss. We know that the Forgotten Ones are associated with the abyss and we have a record of Anaris discovering the material of the devouring storm giving a direct connection between the Forgotten Ones and the Devouring Storm. And that combines well with him trying to escape the eye (of the Devouring Storm) since the Forgotten Ones are said to have been sealed in the Abyss. Also I would throw out that the "she has weapons" line might be referring to Andruil. We all know the myth about Andruil donning armor made of the void (and weapons of darkness). In DAV, the party speculates that that story is about armor made of the Blight, but that doesn't actually fit the story. The armor is made of the Abyss/Void, which was the home of the Forgotten Ones. She acquired the Abyss/Void while hunting them (or maybe got the idea of using it from her hunts of them). There is nothing indicating that the Forgotten Ones ever stole the Blight from the Evanuris. Now according to the story, Mythal was the one who beat down Andruil and saved her from the armor. Mythal is known for turning into a giant dragon. As noted in the video, what did the Qunari do to respond to the Devouring Storm? Gave themselves the ability to breathe dragon fire. So that story makes a lot more sense if Andruil was taken over by the Devouring Storm and Mythal was able to free her using dragon fire. That could also explain where Ghilan'nain gained her knowledge of the Devouring Storm, she was looking for information about the thing that hurt her lover and possibly delved too deep.

[@ZehnWaters]

Anaris also says he "wouldn't go back". So he had been sealed there before. If memory serves, the Forgotten Ones went into the Abyss where "even a god should not linger". This could be about the magic sapping abilities.

[@feyfolken1655]

yep...I like this theory

[@lt.redwolf3767]

I love this theory. I had the same thought process as you.

[@rhiannonsoma21]

Ohh gosh that is so clever. It would make so much sense 😂.

[@sveipr]

While I'll wait to see where this plot twist goes before making a judgement, I hope they go down the route of "a third party across the sea has been observing Thedas this entire time, and now that most threats in Thedas that could have stopped them are gone (blights, titans, Evanuris, Solas) they are now free to act without someone stopping them" rather than the "it was people across the sea all along" while a manipulation plot isn't a bad idea, I feel like most of the plots and lore in Thedas have already been multiple layers of manipulation. I personally would prefer if it was a third party unrelated to Thedas that now has the ability to invade Thedas because they've been sitting and watching and now that Thedas seems vulnerable, now is the opportunity for them to get involved.

[@set9034]

That would be pretty interesting if true. Instead of any level of foul play being had here, we have ourselves an overwhelming force that's just been playing the long game of waiting for their far away enemies to kill or weaken each other enough so that they can move in and dominate the area to achieve their own ends. They simply needed time in their favor to kick things off.

[@ZehnWaters]

"It was AGATHA all along!"

[@ducky36F]

Yeah needed to end that quote at “watching, waiting” and that’s it. I suspect that’s the direction it’ll go if it ever gets picked up. I still remember the end to DA2 and suspect this goes much the same way 😂

[@icecreamorc]

To quote Flemeth "mens hearts hold shadows darker than any tainted creature."

[@clarelover2005]

Something that I found that I haven't seen anyone discuss is in Bellara's last quest: The Forest of Whispers while you are completing the rites (and if you keep the Archive) she will say: "A third we grant to the stars, a speak your life to the firmament" "A third we grant to the sea, to carry you to distant shores" "And a third we return to the infinite, to find their way to the sanctum of the eternal" This is different from the rites if you free the Archive as the Archive taught Bellara how to conduct the rites properly. Bellara will mention that she doesn't know if she is doing this properly and that the intent is supposed to be there for this to work properly. The second line, she will comment how her brother always wanted to travel across the seas passed Par Vollen and questioned if the Evanuris have ever been outside of Thedas.

[@moiramcbutts]

That might also be a veiled (lol) reference to Thane's prayer in Mass Effect ngl. "Kalahira, wash the sins from this one and set him on the distant shore of the infinite spirit."

[@sarahhutchinson1644]

I do wonder if the Devouring Storm/TATs might also explain why the Qunari, specifically a branch of the priesthood, went ape-shit after the Breach. Because, from what we've been told the current Qunari invasion started with a priestly offshoot stirring up the Antaam, which then derailed into the warlords Thedas is currently dealing with. We know from Iron Bull that that priests are the ones who "know" the history. Taking the fact the Breach essentially looked liked the eye of giant green storm, perhaps they saw something the rest of Thedas didn't. I'm also starting to wonder if the Storm grows more powerful the more magic/dreams/whatever it consumes. One way to beat a force like that is to starve it. Might explain why the Qunari are so harsh on mages, but a physical power like Taash' fire is celebrated. Because it can't be devoured.

[@Halfbad-bf1lt]

Something else that might support your idea was the Qunari’s willingness to ally with the inquisition. Everyone seemed surprised by the offer of an alliance, even Iron Bull despite the fact he was sent to join the inquisition as a Ben hassra agent

[@Emmster]

the amount of cut content coming out is making me so excited (lore wise) but also sad because we didn't get it in the game

[@BBS-dl1lt]

I agree to an extent, but I also like the idea of Veilguard being the calm before the storm. I also like the idea of companion side mission outcomes being the more relevant choices instead of the main quests. Specifically, the choice that seems less “good” may actually end up being the better choice. Bellara breaking the crystal seems, on the surface, the better option as breaking away from the past and all its mistakes is important. At the same time though, an archive of knowledge regarding anaris and his connection to the devouring storm is likely important in the conflict yet to come. Same with Taash. Taash clearly seems to buckle under the rules of the Qun and the social freedom of rivaini culture suits them much better, but embracing Qunari heritage and focusing on the tablet, uniting the Qun again, and focusing on the looming threat seems the better option.

[@gamernextdoor23]

​@@BBS-dl1lt the cut content deserved more space in game . Its sequel to inquisition

[@BBS-dl1lt]

@@gamernextdoor23 eh. I sorta agree, but also hear me out. Inquisition doesn’t actually need a direct sequel. It’s ok for there to have been some loose ends.

[@gamernextdoor23]

@@BBS-dl1lt well they clearly ended the game to have a direct sequel and also showed whats happening with elves joining solas , inquisitor vowing to stop or redeem solas and finding people they dont know in tevinter. We were supposed to get the elves angle and also the slavery related stuffs in Minrathus morr explored. Also the clash of elve vs andrastian ideology who made the veil. Veilguard oh...what it could have been

[@notxinnominate]

There is also a bit of ambient dialogue in Docktown where we get to see the Executors work in action. There are these two guards stationed next to the Lamplighter who are constantly talking about conspiracy theories and what-not. IIRC, one is super conspiratorial and the other is a skeptic. After exhausting all of their ambient dialogue, the conspiratorial guard will ask if the skeptic believes in the Scaled Ones or the Executors, but before they can finish their dialogue both guards just up and vanish. I tried to see if it was a glitch or something, but after reloading Docktown numerous times I could never find them again. I'm convinced the two guards got got like the guys at the Nevarran outposts.

[@ZehnWaters]

Nevarran outposts...Vorgoth DOES look like an Executor.

[@boo5860]

Man that is spooky

[@leahwyman6924]

@@ZehnWatersthey also do say that no one knows what Vorgoth is as well

[@willowparker-ct3pq]

Perhaps they were sublimated…

[@bananakaya]

I am so glad someone mentioned this. I seriously thought my game glitched when I saw that scene, and I was playing at 3am so I was so spooked by that scene. 🤣 Snake men at work.

[@Paleos3]

Well, why now? I would say that because of the death of Evanuris. The thing holding them back were not the gods themselves, but their Archdemons. They are allegedly weak to the dragon fire and this could be the reason why those dragons had been bonded to the gods - a perfect controllable weapon against the TATS.

[@ShoppingAttic]

Like this take!

[@nunualma8230]

good one. I'll come back to this thought in the next game.

[@YurateYurate]

and we as protagonists while killing more and more dragons every game are just helping THEM to come here faster... also the "dragon age" now has a lot more meaning than just age when dragons return... actually wow, I like this take so much!

[@ZehnWaters]

Darkspawn are weak to fire too. And the Taint "whispers" as well. Just saying.

[@QwkDrw84]

Dragon age was originally conceived as a 5 part story and I can only assume that they scrapped part 5 which is why we fought 2 elven gods this time instead of one.

[@Pawper27]

The bit from the tablet in Taash's quest saying not to trust messages unless they're revelaed by dragon fire has me thinking too. Are the Excutors or those across the sea unable to weild fire? Maybe weak to it? It would explain why the qunari ancestors specifically wanted to create adaari as fighters. And would be one of many reasons why the Evanuris chose to bind themselves to dragons specifically

[@6thhistory]

They're lovecraftian sea beings it's as simple as that imo 😂 I dunno how everybody seems to be ignoring the very clear vibes

[@M3g4UBERn00b]

"featureless black underneath the hood" makes me think of Vorgoth. I played a Mourn Watcher Rook, and in a conversation with Emmerich, one of them says "no one knows what Vorgoth is"

[@austinrm]

I thought so too! Emmrich saying that got me thinking

[@armature]

not to mention the sheer resemblance between vorgoth and the depiction in the secret cutscene

[@heyitsunclesam1513]

I love this lmao. “We don’t know what bro is but he’s chill so he can vibe with us”

[@ZehnWaters]

@@armature and the artbook.

[@Barekhyahu]

And Vorgoth's costume has a strong resemblance to those at 30:26!

[@Kaelxx124]

Honestly I think the Secret Ending would've been liked a lot more if the voice over was like "watched, waited, helped" instead. Establish they aren't manipulating choices, but they are biding their time.

[@Druller-y9p]

well that is not what Bioware wanted to be the case. They needed to destroy the IP and its story in order to reboot it. Ferelden gets destroyed in the game off screen as well as most of its inhabitants. Therefore all we did in DAO did not matter, since all the characters we meet and save in DAO perish in this game anyway.

[@murphdirt4889]

Even if all of the south is gone and all characters dead. That doesn’t invalidate anything. The Warden still stopped the fifth blight and the Inquisitior still closed the breach saving the everyone for 10-20 more years until Veilguard.

[@Will-sb4hf]

@@Druller-y9p Soooo weird this type of DAO fanatics think the game as if it's a real thing.

[@pipboysandlightsabers5478]

@@Druller-y9pthis literally did not happen

[@KieranHamilton-y7s]

It’s too much of a tired trope that an unseen force is behind every major game event.

[@gabbygirl9600]

I find it an odd coincidence that “eye of the storm” could be connected to the symbols we see everywhere with the chantry and the inquisition 😅

[@bubblybobabubbles]

Dude you're so right oh my gosh

[@ZehnWaters]

The Inquisition, especially. The "hairy eye". Not hair (or a sunburst) but a storm.

[@byrnethebooks]

I’m not saying they hired Matthew mercer as manfred to cover up him voicing the Executor… buuuuuuuut

[@Critical1ce]

he's also Anaris (I'm pretty sure) and the Viper

[@squishyghoul404]

Man voiced Viper, Manfred, Anaris and executor and all of it after already being Fairbanks

[@Will-sb4hf]

@@squishyghoul404 Thank the Maker that Absolution is completely non-canon. The crew did my boy Fairbanks dirty there.

[@safi6749]

He was fairbanks ? Damnn

[@safi6749]

The voice over does sound like Matt. If you are a fan of Critical Role, its easy to notice

[@Elys_Birch]

So the first time I saw the cutscene my mind didn’t jump to the executors. Instead the beginning of the voiceover, about Ghilan’nain being quelled, Elgar’nan dimmed and Solas defanged straightaway reminded me of the codex entry in the Jaws of Hakkon DLC - Geldauran’s Claim. “Let Andruil’s bow crack, let June’s fire grow cold. Let them build temples and lure the faithful with promises. Their pride will consume them, and I, forgotten, will claim power of my own, apart from them until I strike in mastery.” Geldauran is another forgotten one, mentioned in a different codex entry along with Anaris. So I think Geldauran might be involved with what’s happening across the sea. Also having re-read the entry before typing this, the rest of the codex entry is also really interesting in the context of the choices of the magisters sidereal, Loghain, Bartrand, Meredith and Corypheus, all of whom in one way or another pursued power for themselves.

[@davidsparling4395]

I desperately wanted to ask Solas about the Forgotten Ones as soon as Anaris was mentioned. The game seems to deliberately not let you do that even after completing Bellara’s questline. There’s definitely more mystery to uncover with them.

[@Rain-cs3wp]

“do not trust messages that are not hidden by fire.” the tablet makes it clear that the (original?) qunari had to be wary of decieving messages from their enemies (TATS), and that only messages that needed an adaari’s fire could be trusted. this implies that the executors/TATS could/can not replicate this action with dragon fire, and it reminds me of the weird goo always being cold. the tablet also says that the adaari could see the unseen, and i feel like that correlates to emmrich saying he sees absences of light and movement where there should be that in the fade sometimes. maybe TATS are somehow… absence? coldness is just the absence of heat, and shadow is the absence of light.

[@SirDIVVI]

Sounds like some relation to, "the void" mentioned in the lore

[@ChrissieBear]

The Void comes to mind. Definitely a good idea.

[@alexdevos6]

beyond them seeing time in a non-linear manner, i also get the vibe that TATS/Executors are somehow aware of us as players making choices. many lines seem to reference the many quantum worldstates: "witness how fractured their actions" "potential splinters cause a storm" "contact with the deciders" "We will serve their unification" the storm will bring fractured worldstates together? The storm was created due to how varied these splintered worldstates are and how that complicates developing the games? There's also a literal mention of the fourth wall (although its as a series of walls so i know its not the same lol) I'm also getting the feeling that them being across the sea isnt literal, at least not entirely. The line "we are still too far across the sea of potential" in particular stood out to me. maybe the reason they have the executors guiding events to to lead to the possibility of TATS being created since they dont technically exist in the world of thedas yet. (also reminds me of the aliens from the movie Arrival) all in all i'm getting a lot of similarities to the 'whispers' of FF7 remake where they seem to literally be a comment on making a remake or making a sequel to a previous game.

[@inzhuna]

we the players have been those across the sea all along 😂

[@ChrissieBear]

Holy shit, that's genius. I love this interpretation.

[@fleshpuppetpanda11]

This is a really cool theory. If true, it could be used as an opportunity for Bioware to select a canon worldstate to move forward with into the new era. Idk how that makes me feel; it's just a thought I had in response to your theory.

[@dumbguy1007]

This is my impression too, perhaps their "manipulation" of past events is more them intentionally choosing world states based on the decision options for these characters. The talk of their arms moving and constantly changing, sounds like they are unbound by fixed reality, constantly existing outside of a single order of choices and events. This could be also potentially a way for the series to reset all the possibilities of 4 games worth of player decisions in a similar way as the dragon breaks from the elder scrolls games, except perhaps we will play through this sort of events first hand. It would be getting very multiverse-y and that has a bit of baggage due to overuse by the MCU and other media as a way for cameos and fanservice. Also getting very meta with it being a game series about choices, could be very hit or miss.

[@Sasquatch_sightings]

31:35 - I’m not sure if that’s the right kind of “sublimation.” Sublimation can also refer to diverting or channeling something. I usually hear about it in terms of psychology like “sublimating your feelings of grief into making art” or things of that nature. So it could be that the Executors are having their power/that of TATS diverted or they are the ones diverting power/magic in Thedas or something to that effect. I think this might be it because they are threatened by Solas’s actions, and Sandal’s prophesy mentions returning the magic to everyone, so if they feed on magic or use it for something, they would be threatened by everyone having access to it, maybe?

[@quietleaf]

lore mom is back 🗣️🗣️🗣️

[@sveipr]

Things we know: Humans are from outside of Thedas Qunari/Kossith are from outside of Thedas (Devouring Storm) Dwarves exist outside of Thedas (Laysh) The Evanuris, Qun, and Magister Sidereal are all aware of "Those Across the Sea" People from Thedas have found empty continents outside of Thedas People from Thedas that found "Those Across the Sea" have joined them "Those Across the Sea" were watching the breach/knew about Corypheus The executors can be contacted and have spies all around Thedas (Inquisition/Tevinter Nights) Sounds like "Those Across the Sea" have been known since ancient Elvhenan, but have more or less been quiet and have started to appear more active since Inquisition

[@feyfolken1655]

@@sveipr if it helps, a recent codex entry I read said that humans came from par vollen.

[@FLASK904]

The beyond the sea thing, I don't actually think is a reference to JUST being beyond the "sea". I think if you've been paying attention to the series (and the series has been hinting at this since the first game), none of this should really come as a surprise. The ramping up to this scene may seem to many as new, but it is absolutely not. And I am not just talking about the late game war board quest with the "executors". While that was the first clearly overt hint at these new actors. For those of you out there who are completionists, There has been something peculiar about a few side quests you've had all through the series, in fact, it has been one in each game like clockwork. And something has struck me as odd about them, and how understated they have been in the game, until Veilguard. If you don't want to know more, turn away now: Dragon Age Origins: The Unbound questline, culminating in the fight with the first ancient demon, one of the forbidden ones the Gaxkang. Before that encounter, he makes it clear that there are people watching the Warden that he doesn't know about. Dragon Age 2: It is interesting that the first mention of the Executors in the whole series is in the Hard in Hightown novels related quest on the board in inquisition. Also interesting that Bartrand is one of the people who they apparently influenced in finding the idol. Also interesting is that if you complete the "forbidden knowledge" questline, you have to face Xebenkeck, the second forbidden one. The tomes you have to get in order to get this fight, are in peculiar places. Places of power like the chantry and the Viscounts keep in Kirkwall. And then Sundermount, the bone pit (where you fight the dragon in act 3, which is very interesting and I'll go over in the Veilguard part), then the wounded coast, and dark town. Dragon Age Inquisition: I wont go over the war table operation since most have already dealt with it and know about that. The more interesting part is that Imshael, the 3rd forbidden one you fight. Not really much here in terms of the context of this fight, but it follows the trend that another forbidden one is involved in the path of the protagonist, but not necessarily acting on behalf of the antagonist. Dragon Age Veilguard: Alright we all know about the secret ending, especially if you're here. We all know the markings on the Inquisition camps etc. And the responses we get from what are basically scrying spheres. The locations are of note. The Heart of corruption dragon fight, the Arlathan forest, where not only does the solas ritual take place, but also where Elgar'nan conducts his ritual to raise his dragon. The 3rd, is, well we return to the forbidden ones, and this time its the final ancient demon, the Formless One in the shape of a high dragon. Once you defeat him, you will find an orb in a nook near the battlefield. There is a trend here. When I first played Dragon Age Origins, this quest of the Gaxkang unnerved me. It didn't really seem to be part of the game. The codex entries, the dialogue between you and the gaxkang before the confrontation, it all seemed to just drop out of the sky. Same with the other encounters. They all seemed to be part of something larger, and didnt follow the narrative thread laid out in the series so far. When you watch the post credit scene, one thing REALLY stuck out, which for me connects all of encounters and vague quests. When we see the voice say "We have balanced", the tapestry is of the Tevinter mages entering the fade using blood magic. And then two clocked figures show up behind them. Here is the entry of the lore behind the Forbidden Ones in Dragon Age wiki: “The first of the magus cast themselves deep in the Fade in search of answers and power, always power. They found the forbidden ones-Xebenkeck, Imshael, Gaxkang the Unbound, and The Formless One. Many conversations were had and much of the fabric of the world revealed. And thus the magic of blood was born.” ―Unknown author The use of the phrase "balanced" was curious for me. What would 'balace' have to do with this? Surely, they would want to chaos. Unless you look at it from a POV of, balance of POWER. We now know that the Elves were spirits in the fade before they inhabited a physical form. We also know that the Evenuris are avatars of certain traits: Elghar'nan is venegnce, Mythal is justice, Solas is Pride, etc. What if the Forbidden ones were clashing with these "spirits" in the fade before they became physical manifestations? What if as Imshael stated, he is a "choice spirit"? And their worshippers are these mysterious ones who have seen the power of the rival spirits gain dominance in Thedas. Since then they have sought to stop/curtail their influence. In Conclusion, there was clearly a plan here. And I would not get caught up in the whole "Across the Sea" thing very much, Dragon Age has often used the double meaning of words to mislead us. I think we have already faced these potential actors in the series playing as various protagonists, we just dont know it yet. The mention of "Sea" could very well mean the vastness of the Fade, as much as it could any physical geographical sea on the map. EDIT: I would also like to point out that the one common thread in the series, an obvious one, is that it is the Dragon Age in Thedas. We have been fighting a LOT of dragons all through the series. Flemth, the High Dragon near Andraste's Ashes, The High Dragon in Act 3 in the bone pit, the dozen dragons we fight in Inquisition, and then obviously the dragons we fight in Veilguard...If these Executors are worried about Dragons, it would make sense for them to seek the destruction of the blighted dragons who were the thrall of the Evenuris, along with the Evenuris themselves. And that the examples of peculiar things we found in the series, revolve in and around dragon sightings, fights...

[@MsIvalane]

I am convinced that the 'across the sea' reference is about the Fade, not the literal physical ocean.

[@FLASK904]

@MsIvalane i am too. Tho I will concede that it might be both. I imagine it's something along the lines of. TATS have a vested interest in the veil not being disrupted, since they have aided parties against those who have tried to achieve those goals (Corypheus and Solas). If they are subservient to spirits who rival the Evanuris, and maybe feed on magic and dreamers, then I could see how they would remain hidden while being able to do that, with the veil not disrupted. And now that the veil is safe, they can make their move.

[@ZehnWaters]

Wasn't the Fade described as a sea of green in the Chant? The "Waters of the Fade" or something like that?

[@FLASK904]

@ZehnWaters yeah the chant of light describes the fade as fluid and watery in many instances. Emerald pools, or waters of the fade.

[@erylaria398]

Thank you! I've been thinking about the unnerving through-line of the Forbidden Ones quests since DAO as well. This is one of the first things I took notes on and looked up again while playing VG. I could also swear that I've seen the Fade referred to as "the dreaming sea" or the "sea of dreams" or something somewhere in a codex. But we also know that there is an actual physical storm in the ocean that's making it hard/impossible to cross over. What if that storm is in the Fade AND the physical world? We know that the Fade reflects things from the physical world, especially things that have existed for a long time or are very powerful/connected with a lot of emotion. A powerful, maybe magical, storm? That is now quelled because the Evanuris are no longer disturbing and cracking the Veil? Also Obsidian cities with nobody living there? Cold, silvery goo? All sounds like aliens/precursor race to me. I am praying so hard that we get DA5 at some point. I desperately want to see where they take this.

[@BasicallyFailing]

While I know you wont like this and we know his powers are likely the same as Harding's I think its worth mentioning the strange way the executors talk is VERY similar to how Sandal talks on multiple occasions especially his monologue that seemed to predict the veil coming down. Also worth noting we still have no context on the old woman he saw looking over him when he slept or how the room he was found in has been compared to the room in the Horror of Hormak already. Also with regards to Ghil I found it interesting that the beasts of the sea that it sounded like Solas convinced her to leave alive despite that seeming like an odd choice for him could end up being important with those across the sea being an issue. No sign of sea monsters despite how many of us thought we might see them in the Rivain sections I do wonder if those creatures if they still exist at all were spared specifically as a defense for what could come from across the sea.

[@ZehnWaters]

Sea monsters are mentioned by the Inquisitor I believe as attacking sea vessels..

[@AzuraBlackHeart]

Anyone else think the executor skin look suspiciously similar to a certain mournwatcher??

[@freazeezy]

This doesn't mean anything but when I saw Vorgoth and his name I turned to my partner and said someone like Vorgoth's name shouldn't just be "Vorgoth". He needs a title. Something like Vorgoth the Devourer. Ha! So the vibes are perfect for him to be a TATS I think. Breaking down his name, Vor probably comes from latin "voro" which means to swallow/devour. And "-goth" is a common fantasy suffix used to name villains. (In lord of the rings it actually means something like villain). So his name is probably intended to mean "devouring villain". But he's such a nice guy! It's probably nothing.

[@PINKFLUFFEESEAL]

YAY NEW GHIL VIDEO :D Some thoughts and theories How does Nunael/the Healer fit in to this? It would be weird to introduce this named Evanuris traitor. And from the codex where we get there named we know they are "executed" in flame which feels specific and relevant. My best guess is maybe this person went on to create the Adaari? Is this why in Horror of Hormak we see the Healer change, how Nunael's position was replaced by Ghilan'nain? So many thoughts here... Another thought with the executors, they use collective "we" when talking about themselves. This immediately makes me think of Titans, and specifically in one of the Solas regrets/murals there is one Titan that does not have a "tranquility" marking. Does this mean that (at least) one Titan got away? The Executors also talk out of order which reminds me of Valta's notes on the Sha-Brytol and how she can't keep track of it is past present or future. Now for the blight, we now know that it came from/is the severed dreams of the Titans. (The "pain and anger" that Solas mentions in his regret also made me think of what we know on blood magic being proportionately strong to the suffering it causes) The Grey Wardens (and possibly those in Kal-Sharok) are blighted, by a Joining (the word choice feels more important now) and they will later hear a Calling. They hear whispers and other voices through the blight, do the executors have the ability to communicate through it? It could help explain how the executors have "influenced" outcomes in Thedas. I think the two companions who can "die" also might have something to do with TATS, we have Davrin who has the blight in his blood (and Assan who Ghilan'nain thinks some other being may have created and hates the blight) or Harding who is connected to the Stone. It seems too specific that it's these two who are the possible sacrificed, there's gotta be something here. Still trying to find the forest, it's hard when you're just a caterpillar on a leaf. Fen'Harel enansal Ghil Dirthalen.

[@Azkalani89]

These theories are really good actually. I was wondering why the executors would influence the magisters to release the blight if they were afraid of it somehow but maybe its the opposite since the blight comes from the titans maybe they wanted it released to bring balance would tie into why they say that on that slide. Also if the blight being released then allowed them to use it to say wake up the evanuris archdemons so that they got killed and those evanuris then died somehow which is what the game makes it seem would make sense as well. Isnt it also said that a lot of these circles appear in the deep roads more than anywhere else? This also fits with it being titan related and the companion thing is also interesting that is only them!

[@TheArdorous]

There's a line from iron bull that ties into Taash's quest lines. He says that they were the kossith, but our histories are unclear, we had to leave. But I don't think we look much like them. Unless there is further knowledge about where the kossith actually came from and what converted them to the dragon infused qunari is also not elaborated on outside of corypheus claiming their race is a mistake. Dunno if any of that ties into the people across the sea or not. But it's as unexplained.

[@ZehnWaters]

He also said their blood is "engorged with decay". I'm curious when Koslun came into the picture.

[@darkbeach72]

Look up "hurricane symbol". Then turn it on it's side. Now compare it to the wavy lines of the Executor symbol.

[@amaltheasabstractions8107]

Bumping this because op you’re a genius

[@ChrissieBear]

I have a theory that the Storm is the Blight and is actually the enemy of TATs, not their weapon. When the voice mentions "the Storm", "the Sun" and "the Wolf" they are clearly talking about the defeats of Ghilan'nain, Elgar'nan, and Fen'Harel respectively. They are saying these three big threats to their plans have been dealt with. Secondly, Qunari lore has them attempting to become more like dragons in order to survive the Storm, and the Blight is famous for having a hard time infecting dragons, and also being weak to fire. Thirdly, "the Storm that drinks the Sky" in Ghilan'nain dreams may have been metaphor for the Blight taking over the Fade. She never says the Storm is from across the sea, only that the Masked Eyes are. And dreams are more often symbolic than they are literal. And since prophecies can be interpreted in different ways, for all we know her dream was of a future where they went to war with the Executors, using the Blight against them. Which in turn led to the "storm" drinking the "sky" (aka the Blight consuming the Fade) as a consequence. Dooming the world. And finally, Anaris says he wants to "succor IN the Storm". Meaning he isn't trying to escape FROM it but to USE it. I think he wanted a body because he wanted to become blighted like Ghilan'nain and Elgar'nan, because he wanted the power to fight TATs, which as you speculated might be weak to the Blight. Also, I think the Executors are agents of something greater rather than masterminds themselves. The term Executor usually means a person or institution appointed to carry out the will of a decreased person. I think they might be the "Executors" of the last will of the Titans (or some similar beings) across the sea (aka TATs), and which are connected to the Yellow-Green Lyrium from Horrors of Hormak. Which in turn I believe is related to the Chantry iconography of lyrium being called the "Emerald waters of the Fade". Perhaps the Executors or TATs are the Maker.

[@oliviamoore3426]

The blight changed, there’s other voices beneath the gods. I’d venture a guess and say it’s those across the sea, manipulating things through the blight now

[@clairemueller2497]

Do we think that somehow Vorgoth is or is related to the executors? The game files state "Vorgoth is deep-voiced, solemn, and imposing. They're a member of the Mourn Watch, an elite group of necromancers from the kingdom of Nevarra. But what Vorgoth is exactly--their species, age, gender, whether or not they're alive -- is a mystery, shrouded and masked in a cloak. Vorgoth clearly has supernatural powers, however. Even their voice has an otherworldly echo". Vorgoth's description at least to me matches the Tevinter nights description of " the voice from the executor could have been male or female, young or old. it was less a voice than the idea of the voice". Plus their character design seems to be similar from what you data mined.

[@WoopsieWooper]

My thought is he's either an executor hiding in plain site or they simply reused the asset for another purpose when they cut them from actually appearing in the game and thought the mournwatch would be a great place for it. I guess that will be seen in the future.

[@mohammedrahman3718]

I thought he was a Lich?

[@ZehnWaters]

"Less a voice than an idea of a voice" would explain why they have trouble talking. Maybe they're used to being psychic.

[@warchiefvenomn7612]

​@@mohammedrahman3718 He doesn't look close to the other Liches we see in the game

[@davidsparling4395]

My view of the Executors is much more ‘long-running foreign espionage operation’ (with some fantasy flair) as opposed to ‘evil Illuminati that were secretly behind every bad thing to happen ever.’ The former is much more relatable (unfortunately). I really liked the idea of using other characters besides Loghain, though. The Architect or someone like Gaspard du Chalons would have served the same purpose. Ultimately, though, I’m excited to see your thoughts on the rest of the lore and I really hope the general vitriol towards this game doesn’t discourage you.

[@ZehnWaters]

"The Architect or someone like Gaspard du Chalons would have served the same purpose." Boy that'd have been nice.

[@igorkoskin5214]

Regarding Loghain, I believe everything is a subject to change because the next Dragon Age likely won't come out for a while and knowing Bioware they will propably change their mind at least half a dozen of times before they even get to developing it. The fact that Loghain was "guided" can mean a lot of things and it's not neessary that he himself was directly manipulated. Could be that Executors were manipulating others around him - in fact World of Thedas vol.2 alludes that something weird had happened to Rendon Howe just before the events of DA:O if I'm not mistaken. In any case, I'm pretty sure Bioware will likely pivot things away from Loghain given the backlash the secret ending has recieved.

[@Carblesnarky]

I am hoping all this ties to the ancient origins of humans and qunari.

[@Falxifer95]

The secret ending has me conflicted but I'm cautiously optimistic, emphasis on cautious. My own theory is that Loghain acted on his own, and the Executors rather had something to do with the whole Cailan wanting to marry Celene, same for Bartrand but that the Executors provided the map to the Primeval Thaig, and so on. Epler wouldn't have used that code to clarify the wording if that wasn't the case.

[@bunny8372]

Something i notice in the Weisshaupt's seige is: there's is a tiny bit moment when the clouds turn green. You have to be really mindfull of your surroundings and is a part of the story that really urges you to be hurry, but i notice it and i was like: HUH?

[@happythoughts4553]

I'm so glad you tied in Taash's personal quest and Yavana's comments from the comics! Those ideas have been swirling in my head too. I am curious *how* Loghain was influenced in all this. Bartrand was noticeably effected by the Red Lyrium Idol and Cory was Corrupted by breaching the Veil; this could have tied back to The Blight and therefore Titans, if not for Loghain. Unblighted Dog Lord, did something whisper to you in dreams? Veilguard; not even a month old and already getting theory videos ❤ I'm so excited

[@RainRosamel]

My little theory, based off of their use of the word "choice" in the poem is that maybe that they gain some sort of power from monumental events. The big moments we see from the secret ending are not moments of them manipulating things nessacarily but moments they benefited from happening regardless of what the outcome would be.

[@sannik2634]

I wonder if the qunari are even more tied to those across the sea, as the whole race has been hinted at being created multiple times now. Corypheus tells an Adaar inquisitor that her race was a mistake, AND Mythal will mention to a qunari Rook that in her time, qunari did not yet exist. I know it has been a popular fan theory that Ghil created qunari, but that doesn't seem to be the case with what Mythal is saying in Veilguard.

[@DarKnight732]

Your thought about the symbol of the Executors potentially being on top of the symbols of another culture got me to thinking about the word executor. In our world, an executor is someone who ensures that the will of a deceased person is property executed. With that in mind, the executors may be a group that is trying to ensure that the will of some other lost or fallen civilization is properly carried out. So with that in mind, who might that civilization be? The fact that the strange circle codex entries mention Deep Roads that lead under the sea make me wonder if the ancient dwarves/Titans civilization extended beyond Thedas to other continents. If that's the case the Executors may be trying to bring about the will of the fallen Titans. Other potential candidates I can think of are the Scaled Ones (which we know almost nothing about), or potentially (and most probably) the nugs. Those little guys are far too cute so they must be up to no good.

[@kaydreamer]

I really want the Scaled Ones to be involved. They're such a creepy, tantalising mystery. Especially as one codex entry implies some ritualistic blood magic. Blood magic seems to be the opposite to 'fade magic' in many ways, with one drawing power from the mental/spiritual/intangible, and the other drawing power from the physical/mundane. Higher and lower powers, so to speak. (The Titans and their lyrium seem to exist in a middle balance.) If the 'sea' really is the fade, and the 'devouring storm' is a force which devours magic, we could be looking at a war involving the defence of spirit itself. (Even more fun if you take a pantheistic view of the Maker being the combined consciousness of every living being.)

[@dumbguy1007]

Have you taken a close look at the nugs? They have tiny human hands for feet, those things aren't cute, something ain't right about those little guys.

[@taylorboulton177]

Finished last night, I've only been able to play after my kids go to bed. So excited to finally engage with the fandom again😊

[@Pawper27]

I don't know that they necessarily implied Loghain and Batrand were manipulated into being evil. I interpreted it as them choosing that path themselves, and the Executors were sort of helping them along behind the scenes. Guided along the path, not put on to it. Edit: Wrote that before I saw all the stuff from Epler, and it seems he said basically the same thing 😅

[@justcast1429]

Epler was doing damage control

[@MrApoorvaSingh753]

Bartrand wasn't evil more like asshole he didn't intentionally left them to die but as soon he touch Red Lyrium he was corrupted and twisted the songs he hears in his head controls it.

[@kalan0chan]

Loghain abandoning the wardens at Ostagar though was the objectively correct choice to make when the battle was lost. It doesn’t even net you any points if you try and argue during the Landsmeet. It’s only his later actions that were terrible.

[@ZehnWaters]

Or maybe they were nudging extant motivations down a specific direction.

[@ZehnWaters]

@@MrApoorvaSingh753 And who controls the song?

[@WyllBG3]

I didn't even know that people from thedas were unable to travel across the sea. Ps: Those across the sea appear to be very much inspired in "lovecraftian" mythos

[@ChanceDraws]

I think they can, it's usually just running into Rivaini pirates, sea monsters (real), Qunari dreadnaughts, or never returning. Dreadnaughts are the biggest ships we see, so I don't think Thedas has big, multi-mast cargo frigates yet. More like adapted river boats.

[@ICommentCuzILike]

i got the sense that '????', who or whatever speaks to you when you collect the circles, isn't speaking to rook. they're speaking to YOU, the player--it is YOUR choices and YOUR hand that brings the devouring storm. maybe too meta but that was the impression i got :O

[@vesuvanprincess]

I had a similar feeling. I think they're planning to have the theme of the next story match our choices as players vs their choices as creators, and pair it with how gods in DA or as influenced by believers as their believers are by them.

[@XieronDraxin]

So something that my partner and I were discussing the other day is that Thedas seems to be progressing......really slowly....like from a societal and technology standpoint. We don't see a lot of differences between what is described as modern life and what it was like in say the Storm Age or any other point since the founding of the Chantry. This could just be bc its a fantasy game and they are usually set in and around the Renaissance but, To draw from real world history a bit, we've clearly invented the printing press and SOME countries in Thedas have a fairly high rate of literacy (as seen by the existence of Newspapers in Minrathous and that Varric can be a famous published author). In the real world, this, along with the discovery and import of coffee and tea, was one of the many factors kicked off the Renaissance. We have........most of those factors going and yet.....we aren't...Renaissance-ing. SOMETHING is keeping their thumb on the scale and that is what my husband and I think the Executors are. There seems to be some kind of barrier in the eastern ocean that keeps people from leaving. SOMETHING is keeping Thedas contained and keeping it from advancing and while I'm not sure what exactly making Loghain betray everyone did, having Bartrand retrieve the dagger set the events in motion to get rid of the elven gods for good. Something that they seem to have been aiming for??? Loose thoughts and we don't know enough to guess WHY they want Thedas contained and stagnant but might be something? All of that aside, one thing is clear: Whatever it is that the Qunari were running from all these years is coming.

[@HeroOfTime223]

“Disease will lay us low” there’s a codex about Sylaise, the Hearthkeeper that mentions her being linked to someone known as The Healer who was stricken from the records of Arlathan by Elgar’nan, potentially for an unforgivable transgression. It’s a jump, but I took this to be the forgotten one of Disease. Potential link?

[@miah-y5s]

I found the codex a week ago or so ago. I was stunned by what was mentioned but I'm wondering about the Kossith now. Seems like the Qunari will be very important in the next game

[@CanadianMoose272]

I was wondering about this mysterious Healer too! There is so much intriguing and hidden lore in small codex entries in this game that are easy to miss.

[@cookieluver2323]

I'm getting hive mind vibes from the executors. Prehaps they aren't individual people but a poweful being spreading itself out through bodies. Maybe that's why it's so stilted, the executor bodies are drawing from such extensive knowledge from the hive mind? Either way, there's certainly a cosmic horror theme at play which I absolutely love.

[@leighhennessy8212]

I think the term executor is really interesting as well. Executor is someone or an organisation that fulfills a will after death. Whose death and whose will are they fulfilling? As far as their control over events i dont think they were as heavy handed as it appears. Loghain as a personality is highly suspicious of anything trying ro influence him so im reluctant to think he was a puppet. A theory i read was that the executors probably gave him access to the corrospondence between Cailan and Celene and it was that information that helped colour his decisions and not actual interference. Honestly, my first thought when i saw that is they intend to do more dragon age games! Veilguard felt like and ending and its good to know we arent going to lose the universe. Its so rich with lore and has still so much to offer.

[@mrMadHatterreviews]

Veilguard wrapped up a lot of the series lore, so I'm just glad we have things to speculate about again.

[@kaleebdemtshudne7996]

I would like to posit on the earlier point about autonomy of choice by pointing out how important our environments are in generating choice. To borrow from some philosophy we could put to arms both descartes "I think therefore I am," and Hegel's master-slave dialectic. As others have pointed out here Decartes recognizes the self as an atomized individual isolated from others as enough to have a person. Hegel's dialectic can be interpreted as indicating the necessity of others recognizing you as part of the experience of being a person. (There can be a throw away line about how the imbalance of power makes it impossible for either to be happy.) Now to relate this concept to the Executors. So, i'd say that it is fairly common to see actions and choices as isolated and naively that is true. The entity of me in a particular moment is making an atomized decision. Yet, the structure of "who I am" may be influenced and that could be a way to make that perhaps less cheap. I hope that sort of flushes out what John was saying to be a little less of a tough pill to swallow. Either way thanks for the video!

[@LattWest]

Everybody keeps saying Vorgoth but the real executor hiding in plain sight is none other than..... Sandal Feddic

[@BySpartan]

ENCHANTMENT?

[@LattWest]

Enchantment!

[@BySpartan]

@@LattWest Enchantment?

[@feyfolken1655]

@@LattWest ENCHANTMENT!

[@nisilva3951]

I was waiting for your Veilguard theories and lore videos! ❤

[@aparaitre]

FOOOOOOOD!!! because it wasn't mentioned in the vid, another thing from the game files: the executor thing (The Visitor) looks like it was a cut mini boss with what looked like it was three stages? one in weisshaupt and the last one on tearstone island. Trying to find the second one again but I'm struggling to find which asset in the gamefiles references these specific locations again. Also don't know what document that text is in but it's interesting that it's formatted differently? would be really cool if someone put it in there on purpose because they knew there would be datamining happening

[@shaym.1372]

Where can one access the datamined files? I'd love to dig into them

[@aparaitre]

@@shaym.1372 I'm not sure how to best explain it but basically you can use frostbite modding tools (like Frosty / FrostyEditor) to look in the game file - not sure if anybody's exported anything and organised it

[@shaym.1372]

@@aparaitre Oh thank you! I'll give it a try over the weekend

[@JuanDoe193]

Oh I would've LOVED a DLC where we go find Harding or Davrin and also that serves as an epilogue or something. I felt like there was something missing after dealing with Solas and it just...abruptly ended. Oh well...

[@ineloque]

Part of me wonders whether they took the Executor stuff out of Veilguard to repackage it into a DLC. They promised to finish the main story in the base game - and they did - but like you I feel like it ended kind of abruptly. And they left a few big question marks hanging, not least the one over Harding/Davrin/Assan (with their bodies never being found, and Rook promising to find them if they’re alive). I might just be coping, but I think it’s possible we’re getting more.

[@brzendaa]

I don’t think we should be worried about some Illuminati forces influencing the events of previous games. What I take from this is that the Executors are not influencing directly, they are more likely observers waiting for the moment they could reveal themselves to do whatever the hell they are planning. Or maybe they even feed somehow on the previous choices made in Thedas or are formed (?) by them. I’m excited. Also, is Vorgoth an Executor (more likely not but the description fits?) or some other being?

[@brzendaa]

Ok, Vorgoth may indeed be an Executor, the more you think about it I guess

[@vesuvanprincess]

As I read the comments I keep thinking, magic and dreams are tied together, so what would be tied to something that's anti magic/abyss? Nihilism?

[@amaltheasabstractions8107]

Yes I thought this too! It would explain the “stillness” in the fade where magic should be

[@CanadianMoose272]

I just realized that the three circles with Ghilan'nain, Fen'Harel and Elgar'nan reminds me of the interlocking golden circles you can find on the wall in Din'an Hanin. I always wondered what those circles meant. Could it be related? They just represent the Fade or prisons within the Fade. Also the symbols on the rings kind of remind me of the symbol for the Qun.

[@haleytiu3713]

This was so exhaustive, thank you!! The secret ending didn’t bother me that much, but I can definitely see what you’re saying about it not setting TATS up as very relatable or nuanced antagonists. I’m still hopeful that further information will make them more intriguing (and hopeful that it won’t take ten more years to find out 🫠)

[@ColinRoxs]

A thought. but Taash states in a scene with Harding that the fire breath isn't magic, and if the Executors can nullify magic perhaps this is why fire breathers are so special to Qunari. After all if your enemy could erase magic, having people who can breath fire without magic would likely be one of if not your only defense. Also could explain their seeming reluctance to move on Thedas because Titans/The Blight are also not really magical and would pose a problem beyond what the Blight already is.

[@AzuraBlackHeart]

Luckily the cut scene kind of works for what varric was saying 😂

[@GhilDirthalen]

It weirdly does! Enough that I had people asking me why the evnauris were controlling people from their prison, and that's how I found out about the glitch, haha!

[@davidsparling4395]

I got that cutscene on my first playthrough and then was later baffled why no one was talking about Loghain and Bartrand (and Meredith and Corypheus) being revealed as puppets of the Evanuris…

[@ChanceDraws]

To Epler's notes, I don't think it's going to go incredibly deep. This feels like a way to link past and present, possibly with feedback around closure and DAV feeling like a "reboot" to some. Something to ground the new villains in the familiar. I hope the icons they showed are for accessibility, and the actual people are these deep cut characters. Inky's South report absolutely nods to the idea that the Game isn't the only important thing happening during its time. Adding that feeling to past entries may feel like hand-holding, but it helps the "every entry is someone's first" sales tactic. Thank you for giving me fodder to talk about and loving the return to form!

[@jacksonmain1743]

I’m gonna reserve judgment until we learn more about the next game. Cause with how well it’s done, and now that BioWare is going full steam ahead on the next mass effect, we unfortunately won’t find out about what exactly the executors are for a while, so we’ll just have to wait and see what exactly their role is if they haven’t been manipulating events in the series

[@TiramisuSW]

Oh, i think if you look at the Executor art and then the achievement icon, that's an Executor Helmet. They both have similar holes in the face part.

[@Fistleo]

Iron Bull mentions that the Qunari of their homeland looked and were different than the Qunari today, so maybe they were subjected to the goop? Maybe they also changed to look more like dragons when they tried to make the adaari? Also there's that theory that the Veil only covers Thedas, right? Wasn't there something about people coming back mad from their voyages to try and find Amaranthine? I wonder if they're interested in Solas because of him trying to tear down the veil, or just because he's also ancient elvhen? Maybe there is something about Thedas potentially existing in a literal bubble lol that is interesting to them? Also also LOL i'm happy that I found all of those codex entries and somewhat pieced that stuff together too :^)

[@ProfessorHex]

Other names for the text: Chant of Night Rant of Light Canticle of Storms Canticle of Sublimation The Dissonant Verse Eye of Storms Eye of Balance

[@RewindRevival]

GHIL VEILGUARD LORE VIDEO ‼️‼️‼️ Very excited, I've been looking forward to this for weeks ❤ Alright coming back after watching the video to say that I loved this. Really interesting point about Loghain and Bartrand taking up entire rings. It would imply importance vs the events shown in orbs, but arguably...the Magisters breaking into the Fade must be considered a larger event than Bartrand stealing the idol, no? So the meaning behind that art choice is so strange. Is it because Loghain and Bartrand weren't involved in the Fade, so they don't get their veil bubble around the image? But then Cailan is in a Fade bubble...was he some kind of magical sacrifice, dragons blood and all that? Idk. More questions than answers.

[@Just_a-guy]

Cailan was the son of Maric who had blood of the dragons so maybe this is why he was important and why his death was needed

[@goldenCrows]

Audibly gasped they look like Vorgoth 30:29 A Mourn Watcher Rook, asks Emmrich "something something like Vorgoth?" And Emm responds somethig like "No one knows what Vorgoth is..."

[@Sag-nonsense]

I have been waiting for these videos to start again!!! Wooooo she’s back!!’

[@itzhen7032]

Can't say I *love* the implications of that secret ending, but it's one of those things that's VERY easy to retcon or recontextualise And let's look on the bright side, maybe it's an opportunity for the warden commander to be semi relevant again lol! Edit- I am stupid, i have for some reason believed the warden went eastward instead of westward, the warden has nothing to do with the executors, mb

[@mickeyveach3612]

Ferelden was obliterated in this game but the idea of Those Across the Sea coming to invade and starting with a vulnerable Ferelden has good story opportunities.

[@RewindRevival]

​@itzhen7032 my Warden Commander Queen is immortal as far as I'm concerned. The next game could be set 50 years in the future and I'm still going to be holding out hope she's relevant lmao

[@itzhen7032]

@@mickeyveach3612 We know the Warden if survived tried to make contact them, and travel over seas to stop the calling, thats why im thinking whatever the warden found could be relevant

[@sveipr]

While the initial presentation of those across the sea being involved the whole time is an divisive revelation, they really could go in any direction with that so I wonder how they'll land it.

[@Just_a-guy]

@@itzhen7032 Didnt warden go west beyond mountains?

[@Airwynnecondish]

There is also a note in Dock Town at the paper vender area where you meet the guy from the Threads. It mentions markings that no one can identify. There was more to the note, but I can't remember rn lol. Worth looking into.

[@icecreamorc]

Part of me wonders if that unknown substance is related to the void? Like the same stuff that Andruil put on as armor. I dont think DAV really covered that or directly connected it to the blight unless it did and I just didnt register it.

[@davidsparling4395]

Bellara (I think) connected that story to Andruil being corrupted with the Blight, but she was just speculating. There was nothing definitive on try ‘Void’ from what I’ve seen.

[@AlfyTan369]

thank you for this, your voice is sooo lovely!

[@TheTrueThomayo]

i feel like maybe they're the Forgotten ones. Also wanted to bring up that Anaris is the only (I think) nondragon enemy that gets a DEFEATED banner. Anaris is also voiced by Mercer (but who in this game isn't) and his get up with the robes and mask is similar (but not really the same) as the images of Executors we get. All that said I have no effing clue.

[@bubblybobabubbles]

Honestly Anaris's inclusion is weird to me. He's a whole Forgotten One and nobody seems to care much and it's that kind of uncanny "this response does not fit the gravity of the situation" It feels like he was thrown in haphazardly. Up to now we didn't know what the Forgotten Ones were, with theories ranging from the archdemons to the Titans to something totally unknown, and then here one is, just.... an elf, I guess? Just a bootleg Evanuris, with no mention of Solas or why he was considered one or why he imprisoned them in myth too or where they've been or how exactly he's here now. Very underwhelming and I feel like he could be replaced with any old evil blood mage and we would have lost nothing

[@Arthur_Revan]

In a way "Truth is a killer of Excitement".😥 Forgotten ones: Before VG - something awesome and mysteries with great possibilities. After VG - Ah, they just elves who were kicked out from the Evanures club, and now they salted and ignored.

[@LinneaRisinger]

He wasn't as much an elf as a spirit of the original spirits the elves were - as the Evanuris fought to have bodies from the Titan's bodies, Anaris and the forgotten ones fought to have the elves remain bodieless and pure, as spirits and demons 🙏

[@maiafay]

It would explain why they had him in the game. We know next to nothing about them and why they are “forgotten”. I personally think it’s a splinter group that fled across the ocean to escape rule by the Evanuris. Maybe they met something over there similar to the blight that changed them. Would be interesting to explore.

[@maiafay]

@@LinneaRisingerif that’s the case, he wouldn’t want a physical body. That was the entire point of why he manipulated Cyrian. He wanted his physical body back.

[@NOSTALGIAZOOM]

Very interesting! I took the rocky masks these creatures were wearing as an indication that they were somehow connected to Titans, maybe a manifestation of Titans' souls that were cut off by Solas? That would explain why they wanted to get rid of Evanuris and Solas before making their move I guess? And Veilguard does mention that if we were to ever return Titan's souls/minds into their bodies, we would have to heal them first, as they were driven mad...I dunno, maybe it's not that though.

[@erraticonteuse]

I can kind of understand feeling disappointed about the implications for about some characters' actions, but Bartrand was already implied to not be operating entirely of his own volition, via the red lyrium.

[@Chris-rz3wq]

So they basically added The Auditors from Terry Pratchett's Discworld 😂 I can't believe it

[@dalishgloves]

There is something going on with the Forbidden Ones here too. They are constantly talking about “getting back” in this game. I’m just confused because this First Expedition is so old, but Corypheus also somehow knows the Qunari are a failed experiment? Corypheus is not that old. Did he learn it #inthefade?😭

[@Hubabuba258]

"He has seen the throne of gods and it was empty". I will forever regret not being able to learn more from Corypheus. Him and Architect are the only Magister Sidereal we have met, and one is forever locked away, while the other seems to forget/disregard who he was. But there are still five of them left, five people still alive who entered the fade and maybe even encountered all seven Evanuris still alive. The knowledge they could have is mind-blowing.

[@VideoGameSophistry]

Not sure if it's covered here but Ghil and Elgar have a voice note where they talk about the storm EXTENSIVELY. Really well acted. Worth a listen :)

[@dustin_echoes]

I think someone at Bioware played way more Destiny than they should have. They took a look at the Witness and thought "oh yeah that's a good idea for a big bad".

[@jldkrank]

I've been thinking that too haha. I wonder how much easier this would all be if I had my fireteam for companions.

[@flyingempanada]

This is awesome! Thank you for tying all of this lore together in such a fascinating way. I also want to add, for some reason, my codex entry for logbook 5 of lucanis does not actually have the words about the infinite shelter storm, but something else instead, albeit in similar style , 3 lines each with one or two words capitalized- protection and cage I think were two of them for me? Everything else is the same for me thoug, including the description of the decagonal diagram. Even more fascinating. I wonder if it has something to do with whether or not treviso is saved?

[@staciecabral3985]

YAY LORE VIDEOS ARE BACK. WE ARE SO BACK

[@darkbeach72]

An executor is someone who interprets and enforces someone's will, i.e. the executor disperses the deceased person's estate according to their wishes. So it makes sense that someone who has the title Executor would be an intermediary, or physical conduit for the intentions of someone who cannot (or chooses not to?) intervene directly. As for the first part of the video. It strikes me that Epler's comment is a distinction without a difference. Guided is just a softer word for manipulated. Semantics. Saying that the character's choices are still their own is fine, but if there was a thumb on the scale, isn't that less of a free choice and more like entrapment? It doesn't ruin my day if there was a spectral influence at play, honestly, but I do completely understand your point about the characters owning their actions, and moral grayness being the core of the game. I enjoy that as well, and it was missing from a lot of Veilguard. I really missed those Inquisitor judgement moment where I would sit for a while agonizing over how best to decide someone's fate. They did such a good job of providing mitigating factors to consider. Very few of those were easy choices.

[@Watchandus]

Not sure if it’s grasping for straws but I’ve been wondering if it’s possible the storm has something to do with the origin of spirits being able to turn into demons. Anaris whining about being sent back to the storm reads a little similar to the demon possessing the dragon raging about being sent back to the fade. Also the final codex entry for The Warden Grey quest where Grey implies the purpose of the Qunari may be to stand against demon (or he was just saying some cool shit could go either way). It would maybe do some to explain why the Qun is so structured around making sure it’s people to have a set lot in life where they would not give into the temptation of something demon related.

[@Kettun]

Crack theory: Vorgoth is an Executor.

[@sanctun-3782]

So, about the esotérica on the triangle shaped emblem: In Alchemy a pointed down triangle with one horizontal stripe towards the tip stands for "earth". Ignore they stripe and a pointed down triangle stands for "water".in Alchemy the relation between these IS of complementary, not opposed: the waters feeds the earth making It fertile. I must note that usually the triangles are equilateral in Alchemy esoterica. Not sure How this fits, If at all, but the silhuete is similar. It could be simply the profile of a Hurricane, but im leaving this here in case It helps.

[@bomble_]

Theres also a voice line from keepsake and curio to taash about breathers of dragon flames being famed across the sea.

[@Hysorn]

Honestly, in this datamined text there is a lot of reference to a "city", if Blight is the poison in the symbolical Thedas' fruit, I am guessing the Black City is related to the Executors somehow, perhaps even an important piece of their puzzle which will likely connect to Andrastian and general Human and Qunari lore, I wouldn't be surprised if Solas even ended up using this anti-magic substance to create the Veil in the first place.

[@mournwatcher]

Guys can we please stop saying Vorgoth is an Executor, they're my friend they just have every disease in Thedas. They'd never do anything wrong. (This is a joke - but also I will cry if Vorgoth is secretly evil)

[@LuciaSatalina]

That was so interesting. I could listen to hours more of you theorizing!

[@yowaikemen]

When Emmrich was talking about knowing something only by their shadows, I was convinced he was talking about the theory of Dark Matter. How that applies to Executors, maybe they are the dark matter equivalent in Dragon Age.

[@colinpernett1548]

I actually really love the devil on the shoulder angle which is what I thought it was in the first place. Doesn’t absolve anyone of anything but it does make an interesting long game destabilizing effort by a supernatural force.

[@Blacklistjester]

The tornado/storm imagery and the idea that theyre whispering and guiding things almost make me think they are an embodiment of fate itself similar to the whispers from ff7r

[@bossked1563]

I think what bothers me most about the involvement of the Executers in the previous titles is that it reeks of storyteller desperation. I got the exact same feeling in the Loki series, which was confirmed by interviews. In Loki, they wanted to show that the TVA was powerful, so they chose to take the Infinity Stones and say they have hundreds of them, and that the staff use them as paperweights. Not because of any lore reason, but because the *writer* wanted to show the *audience* how scary the TVA was. It made me feel like the writer couldn't write a compelling enough story, so they took an emotional linchpin from an adored story and broke it, to show how important their new story was. This secret ending feels like the exact same thing.

[@6thhistory]

I think it's a perfectly fine thing to do given their constraints, the only other option would be to relegate it to other media such as books so that they could flesh it out fully, and it's a game series first and foremost. Also this has supposedly been the plan from the beginning.

[@bossked1563]

@6thhistory No, the constraints have nothing to do with this. The Executors had nothing to do with this game, and even the secret cutscene says they were behind the three OTHER games, not this one (iirc). They're added content, not cut content. And my issue isn't their inclusion, it's how they're used. They're being used as an intro to the New-and-Improved BBEG (I have... opinions) by trying to trivialize better stories told by better writers. It's like a kid on the playground trying to one-up everyone else to make themselves look cool, when really their playmates just think they're annoying. They're clearly doing a soft reset of the world and using the Executors to keep some kind of continuity with the previous games. They just don't know how to write it.

[@bossked1563]

@6thhistory I also call total bs on this being planned from the beginning. Just because TATS and the Executors have existed from the start doesn't mean they tricked Loghain into betraying the king, or that they were ever meant to be the BBEG. The Genoharradan(?) were in both KotOR games, same kind of deal - BioWare just liked adding secret Illuminati cults because they added intrigue to the world. I guarantee that's what they originally were.

[@6thhistory]

@@bossked1563 have you not heard about the uber-document that supposedly has the entire potential plot of the series already prepared? David Gaider, one of these 'better writers' you mention, has been talking about it a lot. They're not some slapped on inclusion. This was always going to happen.

[@bossked1563]

@6thhistory I actually haven't lol. Was it leaked?

[@87Ayb]

Always here for the vibes! Honestly, this story has me so excited, and I truly hope we get another game to explore this in the future.

[@inkygreen]

It sounds like the executors are just watchers in the same way Flemmeth was. Tho she would sometimes nudge events in her favor. And im not sure the executors are really influencing the past events so much as waiting for them to happen. Like the mage templar war was inevitable. It didnt have to be anders that started it. Even if they set anders on his path of self destruction, they were relying on his own nature to make all those dominos fall in place. They were relying on him to make choices predictable to who he was. Same with bartrand and the idol. They watched the Inquisition but they didnt pull any strings. Likely because they saw it was on the "right" path. Or a path that served their end. I cant explain it well, but i feel like the executors are the embodiment of what people do when faced with choices. Solas always had the choice to just stop what he was doing, but his pride predictably made it so he would never make that choice himself/alone. The executors relied on that predictability. Which still makes our choices ours to make. But it brings up larger questions about how we make choices predicable or reflective of our nature. I think they have the potential to be an interesting foe, a bit more of a psychological foe? i think right now its not clear what they want so they arent coming off as an "uh oh" moment. What interests me most about the concept of the executors is: if they are watching, waiting for things to fall into place, that means no game choice contradicts what they wanted to happen. Considering the multiple endings the games have too? that could be terrifying depending on what you chose.

[@calderwren874]

Idk why, it's probably nothing but the appearance and game file descriptions of Vorgoth remind me of the Executors

[@JonWitch]

i'm also interested in what the executors did not mention: Morrigan, who has the knowledge of myhtal and her essence. Mythal herself. they reference solas, elgar'nan and ghilan'nain. also flemeth is shown, so they could have been manipulating or influencing flemeth. not myhtal herself. because it seems to me that they wanted the evanuris to be gone, but they didn't attempt to manipulate them. maybe they never couldn't. i'm just saying mythal (oversimplyfying things) is now a mini statue (rook says they never have felt anything more alive when they touch it) and also she lives on in morrigan. they also don't say a word about the titans. Interestingly enough, the robes mythal wears, the skin, when you get it, is called watcher's robes. which is what the executors have been doing. mythal has been doing that all this time too. is there a connection? i have no clue. it just seems odd to me that they gave mythal of all people a random armor that happens to be called that. I may be reaching lol. But when I replay the series i am going to be suspicious of every triangle i see, i am now traumatize by triangles. i may be completely wrong, i just finished the game and my brain hasn't processed all the details just yet. I need a few days lol. so apologies if any of this sounds completely stupid. i just wanted to share my thoughts :)

[@wazzlecoon8480]

On a more meta note since the secret ending is clearly the devs giving a clue for the next game (in a way that doesn’t guarantee that game will ever exist) IF we do get another game 🤞🏻it almost makes me think they’re going to continue Rook’s story instead of the classic dragon age trope of switching protagonists every entry. Especially when the very last thing we see is “The Veilguard will remain vigilant.” Which on the one had I wouldn’t mind playing Rook again with a similar team and maybe that will add some consistency in style and writing to the next game? On the other hand I would be sad to loose more of what made dragon age unique from Mass Effect and even other game franchises.

[@Te3time]

I would be pissed if they kept rook after abandoning the inquisitor lmao

[@C-Lamb]

I haven't seen it mentioned yet, but an observation: @3:12, the sqiggly lines over the inverted triangle form a literal eye. If the triangle is the representation of the storm, and there are references to eyes, escaping and/or returning to them, I suspect you're right and we have two connected entities 'watching' Thedas. Great video, I'm so happy to see you getting into the lore already!

[@mudpound]

When you said the bit about the symbol looking slapped onto another culture’s artifacts and maybe their bodies aren’t even their own, I’ll add my first thought upon seeing this was “it’s the reapers all over again.” Which at this point, doesn’t feel too out there. Maybe they guide civilizations to a brink or tipping point and then swoop in to consume it all?

[@SurStormy-cj6pu]

I think them influencing DA2 Varric's brother DOES make sense because of how comical it was that he backstabbed Varric instantly with this look on his face as if someone was guiding him. Personally, I would have liked if writers showed us that the events of DAO freed some executers and made them manipulate Varric's brother so it kickstarted DAI events rather than them always being free and just chilling around until seeing an opportunity like a big war like fifth blight to do their evil planning. Because what was red lyrium doing in beneath sacred ashes temple. Why didn't we see red lyrium resurface in these hundred of years?