The Dragon Age Iceberg {Silly - Pre DA:V Spoilers}

[@vilek_7235]

"maric is morrigans father" That would have some horrible implications for poor kieran lol

[@lucasmullen2961]

"Evanuris created the Dark spawn? Not gonna touch this one." THAT SAYS A LOT WHEN YOU WERE ON THE LORE COUNCIL FOR THE UPCOMING GAME, GHIL!

[@GhilDirthalen]

@@lucasmullen2961 haha- well it more so trying to avoid some stuff that was in various spoilery marketing materials

[@lucasmullen2961]

I think I know what ya mean.

[@bennettmarshall6141]

Not gonna lie, this one is actually really fun to come back to after finishing Veilguard and just seeing how many have been proven or disproven by what's been revealed in that game, and how many were just SO CLOSE to hitting the nail on the head that it's crazy--especially the ones further down the list.

[@thecasualchemist-S]

I'm a little surprised "the blight is a mycelial network/fungus" isnt on the list

[@NobodyNothing-f5c]

If you read the Evanuris coming from the sky as literal, not the fade, the moon men make more sense. Elves weaker genetics hint at an alien origin also as an alien species landing on earth would likely have weaker genetics than naturally evolved species. Also look at interdimensional invaders in Stellaris, and then the Fade and Eluvians. Furthermore it is also stated the Humans were uplifted by Dwarves, teaching them trade, architecture, art, culture, etc. Early humans learning from the Dwarves to build pyramids on Par Vollen, and we know the Dwarves were based on Incan, Aztec and Mayan civilizations but unlike them also the most technologically advanced. Even over the Qunari. So it's likely the Elves stole their tech from Dwarves, just like Tevinter stole from the Elves.

[@jungtothehuimang]

I mean dark spawn are really fungus like, they basically are a hive mind all connected by arch demons, that kind of is a good one

[@thecasualchemist-S]

@jungtothehuimang thank you! I wish I could take credit for it, but I'm sure I heard it somewhere 10 years ago. I like the idea that the blight came from the void - but I theorize that it was part of the "ecosystem" there - that the blight wasn't a problem for life until Andruil brought it to the material plane.

[@jungtothehuimang]

@@thecasualchemist-S she just had to start playing with things she never should have 🥹 thanks Andruil you little weirdo

[@allisons5538]

@@thecasualchemist-S exactly what i've thought for ages - i think the void was to the pre-veil world what the fade is to current post-veil thedas - and i think the blight is some kind of fungus that they brought over and didn't realize until it was too late that it feeds on lyrium (titans) to create even worse red lyrium etc etc

[@flareindigo]

I always liked the theory of Andraste being a Alamarri mage and that the 'Maker' was simply her spirit teacher (likely a spirit of creation, which would explain the name) who possessed her - as shown to be performed by Avvar mages in Jaws of Hakkon. That being the case would explain why it ended up creating a religion - creation needs imagination, and it being the inherent nature of spirits to meet the expectations of the mortal they interact with. Both Andraste and the 'Maker' would essentially enable each other until they believed in their own divinity. That, or Andraste understood the Maker's nature and was instead misunderstood by those around her who were unfamiliar with how the magical custom of a spirit teacher worked - that the religion grew around her without much input from her beyond her deeds in freeing the slaves. It's a cool theory, I think!

[@TheNebulousMistress]

This is how I roll

[@Omkay-zx3zo]

Red lyrium is a final curse by a dying titan to screw over the evanuris And that's what made them go crazy... crazier

[@NobodyNothing-f5c]

Not a curse, more like white blood cells lashing out at the elves and dwarves were targeted first as they mine the blood too. However, after the first blight they were mostly left alone because they received their punishment by the Titans.

[@sveipr]

@@Omkay-zx3zo ooh the blight/red lyrium could be the decay of a dead titan which is how the evanuris, who killed titans, discovered the blight

[@GarethOfByzantium]

You mean the blight?

[@PatheticApathetic]

It’s confirmed that red lyrium is just blighted, isn’t it?

[@Omkay-zx3zo]

@PatheticApathetic yeah... but wouldn't it be cooler if it wasn't? Elven gods this elven gods that~, how about no! Let other things come out to play. Are the titan evil? Whoops, we don't care, Elven gods. Was andraste an awesome paladin blessed by the Maker? Whoops don't care, Elven gods. Is the Stone just a super big titan where other titans come from? Whoops, don't care, Elven gods. It's lazy and not as much fun. Let your lore come out and play.

[@TeroTheShortOne]

My iceberg theory is that Sandal was a Sha-Brytol kid who wandered off and was found by Bodhan.

[@f.c.m.3865]

I think that's the most plausible explanation

[@ThiagoKnoner]

Here's a personal theory I never heard people talking about: Inquisitor Ameridan talks about having an spirit companion, so I believe he was actually possesed by a spirit and had a highly functioning relationship with them, like wynne, and perhaps had even choosen to bond with them willingly, like the avvar girl you can recruit for the inquisition after finding out she's willingly possed by a spirit, who was her only friend, who cole also says loves her.

[@WrathOfTheShaft]

Ive played inquisition a dozen times and never found this Avvar girl lol where at? The Mire? I got the big guy who walks right up to you lol

[@emptylickinfingers]

@@WrathOfTheShaft It's in the Jaws of Hakkon DLC

[@MsIvalane]

​@@WrathOfTheShaftshe's in the jaws of hakkon dlc

[@WrathOfTheShaft]

@@MsIvalane ahh thank you!

[@TheNebulousMistress]

As one of those strange people with One Weird Theory, here's one for the bottom tiers. It is one of several subtexts woven into the absurdly complex worldstate fanfiction I write and almost nobody reads and in 500 thousand words has been picked up on by ONE person willing to leave a comment. Get your tin foil hat lol: Andraste as a mage was possessed by a spirit as part of her training, per Avvar tradition. Maferath knew, and a marriage to a god is a good a way to describe possession. The war across Thedas was a spirit's rampage after Andraste was tortured by Tevinters. Except it wasn't enough and to avoid Falling to a demonic fate the spirit made a deal with Maferath: Andraste's death as sacrifice to release said spirit in ritual, Maferath can con whatever he can out of the Archon in exchange. The spirit succeeded and then faded into obscurity. The spirit visibly leaving like as happened to Hakkon was misinterpreted as Andraste's soul ascending to her Maker's side. Until a thousand years later when that same spirit found some Grey Wardens in the Blackmarsh Undying and decided this Warden fellow is decent enough. Befriended then possessed this one mage with a Cause. I'm sorry. But I built an entire worldstate on the idea that Justice was the Maker and then he just never told anyone. Anders comparing himself to Andraste in all that DA2 banter was so legitimate. Justice so mad at the Chantry for what it did in his name and then doing what the Chantry should be doing by running the clinic in Darktown. Vengeance wasn't twisted from Anders' fury, that was Justice's own fury at what the Chantry did to the memory of the woman he loved, to Templars existing, to what happened to the Dales, take your pick of Chantry atrocities.

[@blancat.7174]

This theory is so amazing I actually love it!!

[@GarethOfByzantium]

The Evanuris BEING the Old Gods was CASUALLY debunked by a recent gameplay video, but it’s clear that they are LINKED to the Old Gods, one to one. How the simple phrase “Ghilan’nain and her Archdemon” changed our lives.

[@7PlayingWithFire7]

Also we heard the phrase "Wardens, this is your final blight", meaning the last 2 archdemons have been awoken along with the 2 evanuris. They definitely each have an archdemon

[@sivilla29]

yeah, i love (no) bioware for this small line of text that obliterated our community theories, that was a work of a genius

[@CoruptAI125]

I don’t know why the iceberg format works so well, but it just does.

[@GarethOfByzantium]

It seems clear that, originally, there were two things, Earth (realm of Titans) and Sky (realm of spirits). Then some spirits took bodily form and became Elves, while Dwarves came from Titans, and functioned like bacteria in their bodies. Qunari were created by Ghilan’nain. Where did humans come from?

[@rayn0577]

It’s kind of a neat subversion, having humans as the cool mystery race who just showed up one day and made it everyone else’s problem.

[@WrathOfTheShaft]

Hey when you leave Hawke it does say "presumably to die" lol

[@GarethOfByzantium]

They could surprise us with a twist.

[@Bryandan1elson]

i think the writers said we wouldnt be seeing whoever stayed in the fade but that could be misdirection.

[@michellek1977]

OMG, I'm a The Forgotten Ones = The Old Gods theorist! Perhaps much more so before certain other theories were confirmed with DAV, but even so I'd love to see if there's any truth to it at all. For me the connection was first made from the codex entry that says Fen'Harel locked away both the Evanuris and the Forgotten ones. The former in the "heavens" and the latter in the "abyss". So it made me wonder: What evidence do we have of these Forgotten Ones being locked away. Well, the high dragons that become archdemons, for one. The Magisters Sidereal were convinced to go to the Golden City by the Old Gods: What if this was the Forgotten Ones, infiltrating their minds/dreams, compelling them to breach the Golden City as a way to breach the Prison Fen'Harel created. Why send them there and not out to find the Forgotten Ones/Old Gods/Dragons themselves? Well, a lot of ritualistic magic is bound up in concepts of synergy: As above, so below. Perhaps those entrapped in the abyss felt that the breech of the Golden City would weaken their own prison? Alternatively, the Evanuris were the ones 'posing' as the Old Gods and trying to get freed by the Magisters. It didn't work, they get cast down and Blighted and start digging up Old Gods/Forgotten Ones: The death of these dragons could very well also weaken their prison and perhaps take out enemies to boot. Win/Win. Alternate 2: The high dragons are maybe the old gods, but also guardians tied to an Evanuris each. In which case freeing them might presumably grant power enough to an Evanuris to break free, which doesn't end up working. ((incidentally, I'm curious to see if Mythal has been gathering OGB in order to purify the corrupted spirits of high dragon guardians that she loves as a species AND eliminate the powerful bond between dragon-and-Evanuris, thus screwing over those who killed her)) Sooooooo.... yeah, I'm honestly not sure if my Forgotten Ones = Old Gods fits anymore, but that's how it got started. For me, at least. Others may have entirely different takes. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk? 😅😅😅

[@MsIvalane]

The only tweak I'd make is replacing high dragons with great dragons; aside from Andraste Reborn high dragons seem to merely be very clever beasts. Based on what little we know about Calenhad, there seems to be something *more* about great dragons.

[@michellek1977]

@@MsIvalane oh, excellent point, thank you! 🙏🏼

[@michellek1977]

@@flooferdoofer oh, this is fantastic! Thank you for mentioning that codex entry: It works well with my idea that the prison/ritual Solas created to bind the gods has a sympathetic link/tether that is key to making it work. The codex entry about humming with energy gives more details and plausibility than my “well, sympathetic magic is a thing in RL belief systems” 😅 SPOILERS: With the recent peaks at stuff going on and the use of terms like “archdemon” in the Weisshaupt vid, I definitely had to rethink the theory that the dragons are Forgotten Ones because I am unsure of why the Evanuris would be able to control them. Then I remembered our source material is Dalish mythology and, like all in-game Lore, essentially fairytales and propaganda. Is it possible the Forgotten Ones were always Great Dragons, as fundamentally critical to Thedas as the Titans? I like that this brings in solid elements of RL Mythos where there are often an original, primal/elemental group of gods that are later pitted against a younger generation that represents much more complex concepts, archetypes and ideas. Is it possible the Evanuris long sought to control/contain them if for different reasons than Solas ends up doing? I like the idea of Solas trying to halt the spread of blight into the Forgotten Ones: it works nicely with my theory that Mythal used OGBs in part to preserve the essence of these beings for their own sake, much like she taught Morrigan. As for the Evanuris connected to risen and slain Archdemons in the past: Sympathetic magic is my go to here as well. Without that tether/energy between them, I imagine the connected Evanuris are either dead or severely weakened/depleted of power, much as Solas was on awakening. Or, perhaps without the stabilizing affect of that link, the Blight has ravaged them to the point of being husks of themselves? Or maybe they are fine and just waiting to jumpscare us, lol.

[@michellek1977]

@@flooferdoofer Yes, that is well said. Simpler is usually the most accurate in the end, lol.

[@55Kasra55]

I actually had this theory when I replayed the games and you are pretty much on point with everything I thought. The only thing I think is different is that your first alternate is true and the evanuris posed themselves as the old gods to lure the magisters and blight them so the darkspawn could go underground and look for the archdemons and each time one dies one of the seals is broken. It is probably just a stretch and we are proven wrong when the game comes out but thought I'd mention it

[@Arlathos]

Dont know if this is already talked about as a theory but here goes: The Evanuris became corrupted/evil due to lyrium addiction, which is why they hunted titans first for the foci then became addicted and couldn't control themselves (i.e. Andruil) we already see how lyrium exposure affects dwarves and mages and Cullen

[@Rain-cs3wp]

not a theory per se but rather something mentioned that no one talks abt and it drives me crazy. in solas’ personal quest in DAI, after his spirit friend dies, when you go back to skyhold, he says “there are stirrings in the Void.” capital V Void. i had the subtitles on, so i know this is true. does that mean that when spirits die, they go to the Void? and if so, how would solas know that? can he sense it? it drives me insane that i’ve seen no one mention this

[@EnchantedCharm]

tier 1: the correct choice is Stroud, let's be completely honest here lmao. tier 2/3: regarding Sandal being a half-elf I'm on my hands and knees in the middle of the street begging the writers to not take one of the few dwarven lore potential threads and turn it into yet another "'tis the elves!" situation tier 3: finding the pieces of the Enigma of Kirkwall during my first blind playthrough was so scaryyy! the horror vibes went up exponentially whenever I'd read one of those.

[@EnchantedCharm]

RE: The Grim Anatomy I would put it as "The Grim Anatomy: Possession is as much physical as it is spiritual". Since it's such an obscure study, and it's only been 10-ish years since DAI, I don't think there will be any progress on this, but GOD would I love to see something on this tome's findings. Hopefully Avernus' studies as well, maybe they're both one and the same? That'd be cool!

[@cmdr.jabozerstorer3968]

1. or if like me, Loghain is alive then he's the choice instead of Stroud

[@TeroTheShortOne]

RIP Stroud, Sacrificial Mustache

[@ducky36F]

I’m still leaving Hawke Idgaf now. My reasoning was always my Hawke ain’t some punk the inquisitor is bossing around and letting someone else die for them and I’m maintaining that reasoning 😂 Loghain lives on forever 😂

[@maoad_dib]

I *really* like the idea that the evanuris stole power from the great dragons. idk much about that theory, but the idea that there's a significant power from before Arlathan that the elves "inherited" just like Tevinter did with Arlathan is just so juicy, and plus I just wanna know more about the Great Dragons in general another theory I really like that isn't on here is that the vallaslin initially worked similar to blight reincarnation, and the symbol an elf wore determined which Evanuris would possess them on death

[@collin6691]

This seems like a good thing to revist post VG now that Ive had a chance to play it

[@kirashepard5863]

Im 38minutes in and I already want an Expanded version of this video where you do actually talk about each point lol Like maybe it could be a full video/video series I am an iceberg video enjoyer tho and I do understand its alot to go though /alot of work jellomoth's Jujutsu Kaisen iceberg videos are really good and the type of formatting I think is cool And The Archeology Iceberg video by Trey the explainer I enjoyed alot as well

[@bluebadger634]

I think the funniest, most ridiculous theory I ever read was that one person on reddit saying that it was the ritual of the Saarebas at Sundermount in Dragon Age Redemption that made Solas wake up from Uthenera. 😂

[@RRC904]

This was great, Caitie! Honestly love hearing you talk about obscure DA lore, lmao. I'm excited to have more niche topics to discuss after The Big Talks of Veilguard and focus on like 3 codex entries that imply at some hidden puzzle clue when we're bored waiting for DA5 like 4-5 years from now. Oh, man, as for theories that kinda fit in the obscure ig there are 3 I heard that just won't leave my my head. Unfortunately I've forgotten where I heard most of them. - Mythal was the one who woke up Solas in the year before Inquisition. I don't think there's any evidence of that, but I love that because it's once again Mythal calling Solas into 'service', mostly if we do go with the Mythal is behind everything. idk where I heard this one, maybe tumblr? - There's a Red Lyrium Titan under Orlais. I believe the theory involved The Stone Leaves Beneath Orlais codex entry in Leliana's Song and the Serault Glasswork where it appears that there's blood beneath the Orlesian throne. This one I read on reddit, I believe, but I can't find it, rip. - This one requires you to believe a lot of theories that we aren't sure are real, but if each of the Evanuris had a particular 'country' that belonged to them, then the matches go: Mythal-Ferelden (because of Flemeth being there), Rivain-Ghilain'nain (because of the Qunari/Sea Monsters), Nevarra - Falon'Din (because of the Dead), Dales - Solas, Tevinter - Elgar'nan (because of Dumat, I think? some details about this theory are fuzzy, rip.), Orlais - Dirthamen (i don't remember why? maybe because of the Temple? Tho, tbf, he IS the god of secrets, makes sense he'd go with Orlais), Anderfels - Andruil (because she discovered the Blight and that's why the Anderfels keeps getting smacked in the face with it.), Free Marches and Antiva I don't remember how they divided it, but I think that Sylaise got Antiva because it has Arlathan and her cities were said to be spectacular. June might have gotten the Free Marches because it was the last match up. Pretty sure I also heard this one on tumblr, but I dare you to find anything on tumblr with their search engine.

[@gabett_]

Honestly, I would love a video series on this where in each episode you discuss a different level of the ice berg in more detail. Same format as this with no editing needed, just broken down into smaller segments so that you don't have to talk for five hours straight. As you said, this ice berg definitely has an expiration date, but if you find yourself having extra time before Veilguard, please give it a thought!

[@nikolasgrots334]

With the Grim Anatomy - if there is something about eyes and possesions and now we are going to have a companion who can feel pressure behind his eyes when he is around magic - kinda makes me think

[@Zachthe504]

Really love this kind of stuff. Mysteries, deep lore, etc. I hope we get more of it! love the podcast and the channel!

[@karteltheinterrex4335]

Ghil making an iceberg is the actual equalivment of our sky being turn apart. What a immersion

[@martinperry5072]

Once I learned that Fiona is supposed to be Alistair's mother, the darker reaches of my brain threw this up. If there is a real reason to hide who Alistair's mother really is, then I find the timing of Goldanna's mother's death to be really convenient to explain where this orphaned baby came from. Of course, both Eamon and Maric are honourable men.

[@TeroTheShortOne]

And Goldanna was told the baby died, so it's highly likely both her mother and the baby passed in childbirth. It gave them a plausible human mother for Alistair, and plausible deniability if anyone questioned whether he was the maid's.

[@TheNebulousMistress]

Loghain was also an honourable man, once.

[@bonniherself]

The Fiona/Alistair thing comes up because the timelines in Origins are all over the place. In order for the servant at the castle NOT to be Alistair's mother, these things all need to be true: Maric was impregnating the servant at the same time or very close to the same time he was in the Deep Roads impregnating Fiona. There was SOME man at the castle who at least Goldanna believed to be Maric who was impregnating the servant. The servant and her baby conveniently died at the exact time needed to pass off baby Alistair as the servant. It would be logical to say that the whole story of the servant was just made up to cover Alistair's origin, but Goldanna was old enough to know how babies were made, see the man who impregnated her mother, and be sent away from the castle with a bit of coin. Unfortunately, I have the kind of brain that spots timeline errors and plot holes and so on. The actual answer is that Gaider wrote the books at home, away from the studio, when the game was in the final stages, and he didn't get the timeline right and he forgot some of the specifics of the Goldanna quest. I justify it all in my mind by saying that King Maric, like many rulers, had a double, and he didn't want it known he was mucking around in the Deep Roads, so he sent his double to the king's brother-in-law's castle to "be seen" and THAT man is the father of the servant's baby. Whew. All sorted. Plot holes closed. 😉

[@Carblesnarky]

One theory that I didn't see is that humans actually were created by Mythal. The idea comes from a codex entry (Torn Notebook in the Deep Roads, Section 3) that says Mythal gave dwarves dreams. The idea that this is where humans really came from.

[@AbsolNoxious]

I need more video of you talking about lore and theories pre-veilguard :D This is so very refreshing regarding the old ones. One amazing thing, would be you creating an iceberg with theories without the ones that are considered as "obvious", but just the ones that are still relevant. I don't go on reddit so you are my main provider of those lore things. and I looooove it

[@misterlemons111]

my one little theory is that: there's a wall of memories on kal'sharok that talks about times before the first thaig, so about the Titans and more, but was lost when kal'sharok was lost, and people started to forget. in dragon age there's a mayor theme of "how easily we forget who we were," and I like it, it's on theme

[@AndersWatches]

God I want so badly for Fiona to tell Alistair who she is too 😭

[@agneskener9977]

This is so funny, I'm a Hawke survives truther but never even tried to justify it with that Flemeth quote, it's just true because I said so

[@GhilDirthalen]

Honestly- i respect that, haha.

[@agneskener9977]

@@GhilDirthalen 😂

[@sveipr]

My theory that I'm sticking with and will probably be proven wrong is that the Forgotten ones are actually members of the Evanuris. We have heard surprisingly nothing about the forgotten ones outside of the one Geldauran codex in Jaws of Hakkon. If the forgotten ones existed and waged a war against the Evanuris, I feel that there would be more evidence of their existence that we would know about. Also, we know that ancient Elvhen would change their names when they enter a new stage of their life (example - Felassan and Abelas). We also know that the Evanuris often warred with each other and often fought against each other on numerous occasions (especially Falon'din and Elgar'nan that Mythal had to break their fight). We also know that it was members of the Evanuris themselves that killed Mythal. I think that the Evanuris was split into two groups, the loyalists that sided with Elgar'nan, and the Forgotten ones that sided with Falon'din. When the half of the Evanuris decided to start a civil war against Elgar'nan, they decided to use new names (Anaris, Daeren'thal, Geldauran, Fen'harel) and became the Forgotten ones. Mythal decided not to choose a side in the war which made her an enemy on both sides. Not knowing which side of the civil war she was on, the Evanuris killed Mythal. This forced Solas to create the veil which locked away the Evanuris and the Forgotten ones since the forgotten ones were members of the Evanuris. I assume the Forgotten ones were Falon'din, Dirthamin, and Ghilan'nain who become Anaris, Daeren'thal, and Geldauran. With Solas becoming Fen'harel.

[@tayitude]

I really like this. It makes me think of the dialogue with the researcher in Jaws of Hakkon about the elven gods mnemonic "every mother finds druffalo sleeping among juniper groves." The three names he can't remember in that convo (the ...forgotten ones) are Falon'din, Ghilan'nain, and Fen'Harel. HMMMMM

[@mollymcintosh2090]

wait…. felassan and abelas are the same guy??

[@armature]

​@@mollymcintosh2090nope, they're just the ancient elves who we know for sure changed their names

[@blancat.7174]

I am pretty sure the Forgotten Ones were members of the slave rebellion Solas lead, his closest confidants, as they are described as part of the same group Fen'harel was. Solas has very visible trauma related to friends betraying him and if you say to him that you will use the power of the Well of Sorrows with the help of your friends, he tells you he knows that mistake well and he could picture the face of betrayal from memory. I am pretty sure his closest confidants, the Forgotten Ones, had something to do with Mythal's murder.

[@SaVanityVan]

I used tho think this, but the lore of the FO is that they were cast out for being worse than the Evanuris, but we now know the Evanuris themselves were monstrous, so I think it's more likely they were enemies of the Evanuris (maybe freedom fighters, maybe just more would-be dictators). In DAI there's a little lore drop that a Dalish clan that worships one of them has blood-red vallaslin and are basically evil, so that could suggest they're legitimately worse than the Evanuris. It's also possible they're Blighted, maybe the first to become so, leading to their expulsion, or maybe they contracted the Blight in the Abyss. Also a couple of them have been named, and it's suggested there were many of them.

[@Critical1ce]

I realize this is a bit late, but Kirkwall was historically known as Emerius to follow up on what you were saying, Ghil

[@Ummer]

YES an iceberg from my favorite dragon age creator. You're the bestest. Thank you!

[@Sylveonist]

The Primeval Thaig is a titan and the red lyrium idol is the remains of a ritual meant to contain blight running through it. as in the titan became slightly blighted(through proximity to the second sin?) and the dwarves there found a way to stop the infection from spreading using the idol. it worked but only if they closed it off. ages later the Tethras/Hawke expedition broke the seal and the titans last acts included touching sandal to give him his "Not Enchantment"

[@FlippinFlynn]

About the “all thedosian realms are connected” theory, this is how I’ve always theorized the realms relation to one another: You have Thedas in the middle. Go far enough into the earth of Thedas, you get the deep roads, get far enough into the deep roads, you get the void, go deep enough into the void, you find the fade, get deep enough into the fade, you enter the sky, until your back on Thedas. It lines up with the circular imagery u see so often in dai when inside elven ruins. The titans are guardians of the earth/void, the dragons were the guardians of the sky/fade. There’s also something here to be said about red lyrium/blue lyrium, as well as blood magic/lyrium magic, but I’m not smart enough to put it into a coherent sentence so lmao. But that’s been my theory lately. 😊

[@dalishgloves]

I always appreciate Caitie calling us out on our copium. Hawke is dead, Felassan is dead, Yavana is dead. This is Dragon Age, so they could get better. But they are dead.

[@Bryandan1elson]

not my Hawke. The honorable warden Loghain Mac Tir stayed behind

[@ThatFont]

This franchise has so much meat and potatoes, yet somehow leaves room for desert. I love it!

[@jessicatate3162]

I feel like if any of Flemmths offspring is Marics, it's Yavania

[@rachelrainbowphoenix]

20:17 I am so glad to hear this take from an established loremaster/ theorizer! I bounce in and out of fandoms and I have seen a lot of enfranchised longtimers (of many fandoms not just DA) complain about "newbies rehashing old/ settled theories." Some even go so far as to suggest it shows some kind of lack of "respect" on the part of the newcomer for not spending hours upon hours deep diving before they have the "audacity" to post about the thing that got them excited enough to want to interact with the wider fandom community😐. That line of thought has always felt gate keepy to me. So THANK YOU Katie from the bottom of my chronically online, lurker heart for normalizing newbies being excited about common theories in this fandom. 🤩😍❤🧡💛

[@Amazatastic]

if vallaslin used to be made with lyrium then that means that Fenris' tattoos are vallaslin...and its just another thing a magister stole from the elves lmaooo

[@The_ND_Enby]

I really don't think whoever is left in the Fade is dead but I do think they are now a truly colossal Nightmare abomination.

[@heziilah]

YAAAAY Grim Anatomy mention!!! It's my favorite lore tidbit, I hope we get to find out what happened to the author someday! Loved the video

[@Platypusthethird]

Getting a surprise Reinako mention in a great Dragon Age lore video made my day, so the Sailor Moon reference wasn’t entirely in vain lol.

[@freazeezy]

Ghil in her theoryness bubble re-arranging the iceberg like "I forget sometimes that regular fans only know about the temple of sacred mythal ashes, qun suppressants and Sidereal".

[@Alazander]

My Forgotten Ones = Old Gods theory: Originally there were the Old Gods and the Titans. Old Gods were Great Dragons. Old God(s) made spirits who lacked creativity and passion, Titans made dwarves who lacked free will. By some means, likely by an Old God's choice, a sort of combination between the two was made: ancient elves. Elgar'nan likely being the first. After a long period of time, the Old Gods grew angry at the elves or Titans and waged battle. Elgar'nan led a rebellion to topple the Old Gods and was able to control their power by some means. Possibly through Foci. This is the war referenced by Solas that elevated the Evanuris to godhood, not a war against Titans. Evanuris did a concentrated effort to purge as many records and memories of the Old Gods as they could. This was to consolidate their power and status. And this led to the moniker Forgotten Ones. Tangentially related, Mythal may be an Old God who negotiated with Elgar'nan to be his partner in order to end the conflict. Dumat's Old God soul ended up with Andraste and is the Maker who revealed this history to her. I do have ideas how the named Forgotten Ones we know about fit in, but it's by no means perfect. I also think there were way more than 7. Sources: Dalish creation tale, Chant of Light, The Silent Grove

[@MsIvalane]

Ooooh my god I'd love to hear more about this, this is juicy

[@jessicatate3162]

All the dwarves were like Valta before Mythal sang the Titans to sleep? And then Solas separated the titans from the Dwarves with the vail.

[@dabwiso784]

There's usually a sort of formula that determines the placement on these that take into canonicity, obscurity and ridiculousness, that's why some canon but obscure lore is lower on the iceberg while some well know but debunked theories are high up.

[@masterch33fII7]

This was fun :) Would love more content like this!

[@muffinhydra]

Humans were made by the Evanuris by crossbreeding Dwarfs and Elves in order to create a perfect slave species. Or alternativly humans were created by elves and dwarfs coexhisting after the fall of the evanuris. In the same vein Qunari were created by mixing either elven or human or dwarf with dragons ( or all together for a chimeric species).

[@the_yeehaw_way]

about hawke being left in the fade, if they did not want fandom copium they should not have worded it like "will likely die" lol

[@alexsnewhandle]

an hour?! man I love hour long KZbin videos, great to play on the background while working

[@YurateYurate]

"oh, Caitie, I just foung your channel and it is awesome and love it so much, and I just came up with this theory.."😁 what if Fen'Harel is The Formless One, last of the Forgotten Ones? smth smth about shapeshifting, and many forms, and stolen dragon form, and black shadowy mass with blazing eyes, and Dread Wolf comes in humble guises, and Forgotten Ones are banned to the Fade, and choice spirit, and spirits come to help when someone called... nevermind I am just loosing my mind thx for funny vid ☺

[@blinkrush6101]

You've actually already discussed my weird theory in a video, but its the Andraste is a lyrium ghost whose original form was killed by her father's experiments. And that's why she is so associated with music, etc, and how she was able to make a tie with the maker/another entity we now refer to as the Maker.

[@aniieesteiner]

I've got one that's probably really stupid, but I was a weird just-about-still-teen when I wrote some fanfiction in 2012, where I placed Thedas south of Faerun. Thedas is a southern continent, Faerun is a northern continent, no one really knows (knew? I don't know if they've changed that for D&D) what's north/south of the seas.... the Bioware connection. I actually had my canon Hawke and Anders run away together and take a ship north, ending up in Baldur's Gate. Again, probably kinda dumb, but it was a fun writing exercise.

[@HikikoMuri]

Awesome video as always! ❤ Also inspired a tiny theory for me! (Veilguard marketing spoilers below!) . . . When you brought up the Grim Anatomy, it reminded me that one of the writers said a while ago that it will/might be relevant in DAV, and it got me thinking. What if the Grim Anatomy plays a part in how we can deal with Lucanis’s condition? 👀 Perhaps we’ll find a way to separate him from Spite? Super looking forward to when this iceberg gets an update! 🙌🏼

[@HikikoMuri]

Maybe it’s more a prediction than a theory lol

[@azuryyyy]

I love the Grim Anatomy too!! I doubt it'll come up but it would be nice to see a mention in a certain character's storyline in DAV haha

[@Light-11]

I actually have a theory about the forgotten ones being the old gods! It was one I came up with a couple of months ago from one of the game informer articles! I'll copy and paste it from my original post. "With the new infomation with have from the GI article, One theory I have now is that while the Archdemons are connection to the Evanuris, its not in the way of them being bound to them in some way... In fact its the opposite. The archdemons are like Hakkon, spirits solas was allied to, potentially even being the forgotten ones as in the legends Solas was friends to both them and the Evanuris. So the spirits/forgotten ones were bound to the bodies of the dragon and they act as the key to the prison he put the Evanuris into. Since 5 of those spirits are dead or just out of play, the prison weakened. This would also explain how the 'spirits' of the archdemons could communicate with Tevinter. As we know from Jaws of Hakkon, a spirit bound to a physical form can't communicate through the fade so the archdemons shouldn't have been able to communicate to the dreamers... But the Evanuris would since they're not there physically in anyway. So if they played a long con to make Tevinter worship the idea of the old gods leading to the Magister Sidereal breaking into the Black City/Arlathan which let the contained blight out into Thedas with them being able to influence in the form of the song they hear telling them to find the archdemons and then either just blighting the spirit is enough to break that lock on the prison or they knew that something would eventually be able to kill it and thus unbound the spirit keeping them trapped. This would also explain why Solas was so against the Grey Wardens killing them, partly because they're effectively destorying his old friends and also because... Its weakening the prison. Since one issue I've always had with the Archdemons are the Evanuris theory is if they were the same, why is Solas so against killing them? He wants the Evanuris dead but didn't have any options to kill them so if all it took was killing their dragon form wouldn't he have done that or encouraged the wardens to finish them off? If that happened he'd be able to drop the veil without worrying about them but... He doesn't. He didn't want the archdemons killed, in fact he was against it even implying it would unleash something worse aka the Evanuris. It feels like we're still missing... Something here but I feel like this links everything together in a way that makes sense, it would also probably mean that while Arlathan is the black city its not the prison Solas trapped them in." Now I will add on some stuff from the veilguard gameplay showcases so don't read on if you don't want spoilers on Veilguard stuff. Okay this should be far enough down, knowing the archedemons are under the control of the Evanuris while it puts a hole in this theory I don't think it breaks it. As the video implies they are separate entities and we know the Evanuris can control blighted creatures I wouldn't be surprised if they knew exactly where the prisons were and were able to corrupt the remaining two forgotten ones, turning the last of Solas's major alliesa and their enemies to their side. I still think the forgotten ones are the archedemons which is why solas knows so much about them and was so against them being killed both because doing so weakened the prison he and them created and effectively killed his old allies. it also lines up with the eleven legend because this way Solas did seal away both the forgotten ones and eleven gods but like most legends the truth was distorted and that's why the forgotten ones are never mentioned in Trespasser because they aren't enemies to Solas like the Evanuris.

[@ADL21]

The Mass Effect moon that is the same as Dragon Age is the Planet Presop in Mass effect 1 which predates DAO and it's where you meet Major Kyle who could be connected to Shepard's backstory if you chose the Ruthless psych profile.

[@dvlmnn]

just found your channel and i’m loving it as a beginner into the series!!!! btw you and @roozeveltfox have like the same voice lol

[@ADL21]

Andraste being an Elf caught my mind when doing Leliana's personal mission in Inquisition at that Chantry because WHY would Andraste's hair cover both her ears in an opaque fashion? Then why is the Chantry so stern on keeping her features obscured? Either she's an elf or Elf Blooded based on the spirit at the temple on TOP of being a spirit Healer mage. We could honestly get a prequel of Andraste with how special she is in the lore if even one of those is accurate.

[@derpy5670]

the way my head whipped around at the Grim Anatomy comment "...behind the eyes" after just looking up info about Lucanis who gets *an ich behind the eyes* when the veil is thin/magic is used...

[@jungtothehuimang]

OH SHIT WAIT 👀 I didn't even peep the connection, I wonder if there is one

[@skylerjayceysylvan6238]

I was one of the ones who had the Forgotten Ones = Old Gods theory (though since some of the spoilers in the marketing of Veilguard I'm leaning more towards Forgotten Ones = Titans instead). Essentially what I was using to back up the theory was Andruil possibly getting blighted from going into the Abyss where the Forgotten Ones were, which meant the Forgotten Ones were blighted which would make sense they'd call to the Darkspawn to free them and become Archdemons after being locked away. Also the Abyss was theorized to be underground and that's where Archdemon tombs could be found. Considering the Forgotten Ones and the Evanuris were at odds it would've made sense they'd whisper to the Magisters saying they're the Old Gods and give them power to make the elves suffer, and then trick the Magisters Sidereal to go to the Black City in order to intentionally release the Blight onto the world to make as many elves as possible suffer via sacrifice and because the Forgotten Ones just like things being blighted. It just all seemed to connect at the time. The (spoiler) confirmation that the Evanuris are the ones who are blighted, able to control the Darkspawn, and at least one controls an Archdemon debunks all this entirely. I now moreso think that the Archdemons are immortality assurance for Evanuris (turned seals to their prison by Solas via the tombs), as well as that the Old God whispers were the Evanuris trying to trick the Magisters into freeing them from the Black City. Nothing earth-shattering, just where things seem to be heading to me.

[@Ian_Moon42]

I finished Veilguard and came back to this video. Crazy how many of these theories turned out to be right or partially right.

[@freedomsreaper]

Shouldnt dwarves were a hivemind be in the top layer? I wanna say it was mentioned all the way back in origins.

[@vullture2]

Wow taking me back too with the Sailor Moon/Mars/Venus mention. I was kind of obsessed back then too

[@copper1675]

26:32 justice for same universe theory I saw that Krogan with my own eyes!!😂

[@totesmahgoat2381]

One of the first people you rescue in the tutorial level of ME1 says "thank the maker!" 100% confirmed it for me lol

[@biowarechick]

One of my theories/ maybe just an understanding is that the Sha-Brytol are to the Titans, what white blood cells are to our bodies. The other dwarves are other "cells" that the Titans need to maintain their "bodies." A streetch maybe. I just want more dwarf and titan lore desperately!

[@Vonax637]

Forgotten Ones = Old Gods is my favorite theory! Other people have already posted great explanations so I won’t, but I’m happy it’s looking less likely that Evanuris = Old Gods is true, that never made much sense to me (the abyss/beyond thing, mostly). Hope it turns out true ^^

[@Nautinthislifetime]

I think it is in ME1 Klendagon I think...you can see Thedas moon in Inquisition so there is the theory that it is the same place....same universe. I do like that theory. I tell you something, but if I get to the end of Veilguard and a Reaper shows up, I am out! I also love the ghost theory for Leliana.....and also the theory that Mythal has been moving all the pawns onto the chess board since everything began....the pawns being all the cannon fodder aka Hawke, Warden, companions, armies....the King and Queen being Alistair and Anora and the new MC in veilguard is called Rook....another very powerful playing piece in chess!

[@rayn0577]

After what’s been revealed from Veilguard’s art book, it seems both Ghil and I owe some people an apology. I’d always thought the Hawke survives theory was copium, but it turns out we would’ve been wrong.

[@ducky36F]

30:11 the first warden being a magister would be spicy that’s for sure 😆

[@aryamouzon7476]

I love the fact that I've been 10 years a fan of dragon age but I was not into the discussions and I only started now with the veilguard hype 😂 And I came up on my own with a lot of theories but I never heard or thought before today of Arlathan being the black city (and I imagined a lot more obscure stuff) 😂 This is amazing and I loved your reaction to it 😂

[@adamroot2973]

I just want dav to come out already lol this wait is getting to me lmao

[@jameslanier2510]

I think the Dumat is the maker thing references Andraste as the first OGB. Dumat's soul is in her, and he creates the "The Maker" persona to trick her and gather a following. It's an act. There is no maker

[@AnaQn]

You're amazing, love your voice btw

[@Sasquatch_sightings]

Iceberg ahead!

[@blackcheckshirt1365]

I wouldn't bet on the First Warden being a Magister Sidereal... BUT I too do love the idea, periodically jumping into a new Warden body when it comes time for their 'Calling'. Maybe the reason for the fracturing/warring of the Wardens hinted at in the Trespasser slides is the First Warden wanting to use red lyrium in the Joining ceremony (okay, full baseless tinfoil, I just wanna know more about the Sidereal)

[@notsosmartguy6254]

Honestly Andraste having Dwarven blood would be interesting because on my last play through I am starting to wonder if the thing that contacted andraste was actually a Titan…….. “But what about the mythal temple stuff” what if it was left over from when the Elves enslaved or killed the titans so it was reused.

[@NobodyNothing-f5c]

Gaider established there are only social half bloods, not genetic ones. Dwarves produce dwarven kids with every race. Humans with everyone except dwarves. Elves with themselves, and Qunari. Hence the Red Crossing disgust by the elves. Qunari have the weakest genetics, supporting the artificial race argument and tying up the loose end of their strict mating controls. The source link to the forum post is still up on the wiki.

[@notsosmartguy6254]

@@NobodyNothing-f5c I thought a Dwarf and a human makes a human. hence why kieren is a human even with a Dwarf father? also i never heard of the Qunari thing, I thought we didn't know.

[@NobodyNothing-f5c]

Kieran is an exception, not the rule. Most people went old god soul.

[@BadgerPride89]

@@NobodyNothing-f5c source on the qunari genetics? and on the dwarves creating dwarves with humans?

[@NobodyNothing-f5c]

Elf-blooded wiki page, reference 6. Archived bioware forum post. They didn't want to dedicate models, and story resources to half blood races so it is purely social. I've lost the link to him discussing his D&D experiences, where he said you should play an elf if you want elf powers, etc.

[@docmacabre]

About the Hawke thing: that's why I leave Loghain in the Fade.

[@Knightshade1373]

Since Trespasser I've been thinking about how the moonhead statue reminds me of DA:O and DA:A statues of Andraste. Now that moonhead is confirmed Ghil'inan I wonder if there is a connection there.

[@PrincessGoose]

I'm a Hawke is alive truther so much that I let Loghain walk away from it, I'm plugging my ears and running away

[@BlueShirtRedVest]

It'd be interesting if you returned to this after TVland comes out to see what ended up being proven and disproven.

[@smashley_exe]

My weirdest theory is that since Mass Effect and Thedas exist in the same universe, it was actually protheans that brought humans to Thedas. Or at least that humans originally came from space. Since we don't have a real origin for them. We also see Krogan, so it may be a bit out there, but not out of the realm of possibility.

[@travismt0349]

Hey, do you think we’ll see Sandal in Veilguard; being as he had a little camp set up in The Crossroads (behind the library I think), in Trespasser.

[@Mungojerryjuice]

Ghil always gives us power.

[@Moka044]

- On the Mass Effect kind of linked theories, I've read one about human coming from another planet via spaceships. Since we don't know where the humans come from and Mass Effect and Dragon Age share easter eggs. But I don't really like this theory (and in the comments, many people were not fan ot a SF side ot this in their fantasy setting either), just on the weird side of the Iceberg. - The "Felassan is not dead" theory since it happened in the fade is on my "I want to believe/copium" part of the Iceberg. - One I really like is the Veil is slowly falling apart, even without the whole inquisition happening or Solas' actions. The Veil is getting thinner and thinner because of blood events like battles, sacrifices, tragedies, etc... Maybe that even triggered Solas' awakening from Uthenera before Inquisition. - I also like the Halla's theory and I support it too. It's macabre but would really fits well with Ghilan'nain lore.

[@Crow_III]

That moment when you realize you've already seen, discussed, or heard of almost all of these BEFORE seeing this video is when I knew I was too deep into the DA lore and universe lmao. 😂 - The few that were interesting to me were Sera being Andruil (never heard of that one), the Old Gods being the seals to the Black City of Blight, and Andraste being a Dwarf (also never heard of this one being genuinely theorized in a way that makes sense).

[@SwingAndAMiss21]

I thought the person left in the Fade survived because every choice says "X will happen" and the Fade choice said "the person will probably die". I didn't even know about the Flemeth thing 😅

[@mippa]

The screech I made at the Sailor Moon mention EXCUSE YOU I was a Moonie before I got into Dragon Age (DA was actually the first game I played after moving back from Japan lol)

[@NathTMcC]

I think Andraste was like Flemeth a vessel of Mythal.

[@AfonsoVMSP]

Perfectly explained! There so much loreeeee

[@aleciaregister162]

Wasn't the zone for the Grim Anatomy the HIssing Wastes? in Inquistion?

[@keata1315]

I'm not claiming ownership of this but this is what I think: Elves were spirits who took a physical form. They had super mega magic and the titans were there too. They also had magic (lyrium) and made dwarves who drew magic from their "god" titans. The Elves got mad about it and started a war. Killed or put titans to sleep, cutting the dwarves off of their magic. Heroes of that war become the evenuris and the rest we learn in trespasser.

[@PupScout424]

I like the theory/head canon that Hawke is a descendant of andraste through Malcom(andraste’s daughters eventually flee tevinter and rejoin the fereldan tribes) I believe the Andraste = elf comes down to statues of Andraste having her ears cut off and a belief that the southern tribes used to mingle with elves a lot more that people today realize which is another theory that I really like

[@RaeKai44]

Regarding the Mass effect "theories" it's actually more blatant than you seem to think, you can actually find Thedas itself and the description of the planet says that it's under quarantine due to a local "blight" phenomenon 😅 imo it's basically canon, it's more the timeline that's in question because mass effect says first contact was attempted but the only evidence we can really find of that is a Krogan head in DA2

[@kevinsilvaconde6008]

I think the old gods are the dragons belonging to the elven gods. They were used much like the dragon from Corypheus. Solas mentioned his surprise at Corypheus discovering "effective immortality" or something like that when explaining why he gave the orb to him. The old gods were used to influence tevinter into breaching the golden city were the gods are locked, but something went wrong. Solas didn't stop then because he was sleeping, so something else must have happened.

[@kevinsilvaconde6008]

Maybe the elven gods can't free themselves without solas doing something, and they used the magisters only to spread the blight. Solas might be the only one capable of releasing them as he created the veil. Why did they spread the blight? Just because or there is some other reason?

[@keithboyer2637]

yay a long video