Venom vs Wolverine: The Rivalry That Changed Comics (Also Deadpool) | A Superhero Video Essay

[@StonedHunter]

The idea that Venom picks up traits and holds onto them, leading to those traits effecting later hosts is actually a cool idea because a good writer can really play with what traits are showing up depending on chronology as well as how those traits effect different characters. Wade's madness, Peter's long repressed rage, Eddie's resentment/desperation, etc etc. It'd also be cool if they showed more about how these traits affect Venom as well outside of its hosts. Now I can't help but wonder if Venom would have been included if Sony didn't have the rights locked down. That trio leading a movie would be fascinating to see play out given the different dynamics that'd be at play.

[@billassburger6854]

your forgot to mention the other thing deadpool and venom have in common there both secretly want to kiss spiderman

[@Flungz_99]

Naw just the humor

[@DeltaSK2112]

I don't think it's a secret

[@kmaximusconnor3665]

Deadpool does not keep that a secret

[@kaxcommentssomethingREAL]

The closest thing Venom's ever got to that was _licking_ him!

[@jeggsonvohees2201]

It's really interesting how Spiderman was the first to break their truce, yet Venom still honored it for a while.

[@raphaelmarquez9650]

Movie rights issues are a pain, it's why we never got a new solo Hulk film since 2008 and why it took so long to finally get X-Men characters show up in the MCU, at the cost of making convoluted workarounds on how they show up. The Venom movies would've easily fit into the MCU during the 5-year gap between Infinity War and Endgame.

[@jasongreen6826]

Owned by different companies and why would the mcu allow them absolute dog shit venom movies in their universe?💀

[@striker8961]

Ye but those also suck so...

[@Flungz_99]

Deadpool as a whole was something familiar but different. He was reminiscent in Venom’s arc becoming a lethal protector with Spidey’s issues, but deeper and the comics studied the trauma caused by and to Deadpool. He had a similar but worse life to Spider-Man and even Weasel, his best friend is essentially if Peter Parker was a good guy pushed in a bad world. It’s great.

[@Squishy246]

Deadpool and Wolverine are my 2 favorite marvel characters and after watching the movie of the two of them together I can die happy

[@JulioConnory]

To me it was the last issue of Maximum Carnage where Eddie fully let the beef go with Spidey. This all makes sense for me, and had some conscientious choices driving it. Another point to add to this: if Venom ever got Wolverine's opinion of Spiderman, which he absolutely could have from watching the nightly news. Wolverine and Spiderman have had many crossovers. Typically Logan holds Peter in the highest regard, one of the best of the best people. If Venom already had some respect for Logan and saw that he held Peter highly--we have another drop in the Venom heel/face turn bucket.

[@HubPie3]

Gonna be honest, I despise the Venom movies. It felt like Sony went out of their way to strip everything I love about Eddie Brock as a character: no Spider-Man in the origin, Eddie isn’t that much of an asshole prior to becoming Venom, the Symbiote is a completely unique entity instead of taking the host’s desires and twisting them, Carnage being awful, etc, etc, etc. I’m not normally one to complain about comic accuracy, but the Sony Venom movies are my one exception. Glad you dig them, Ant, but I can do without them.

[@juliocesar899]

At the same time...Is Venom still all these things on today's comic perception? I see that Donnie Cates make a really solid foundation tô basically erase the necessity of Spiderman on the character

[@HubPie3]

@@juliocesar899 I love Cates’ run on the character, don’t get me wrong. I was disappointed in how Spider-Man 3 adapted Eddie and the Symbiote, so I was hoping that the next live action adaptation would be better. Ah well, can’t have everything.

[@juliocesar899]

@@HubPie3 That's fair, I always saw this Sony movies as a opportunity to be experimental and try weird and new things, but they always end up doing the most low effort-common denominator movie possible

[@SpookySkellyGurl]

you just hate to see a queer love story succeed /s

[@yurislug]

The Symbiote being a unique entity is accurate tho. The "twist the host's desires thing" was never a thing in the comics and it's just a cheap excuse to have Peter take off the costume for adaptations. In the comics, it can manipulate you with words and psychological manipulation.

[@warhorrorspondent]

Venom🦾Nightmare🦾Wolverine✊🤬 - If Wolverine had a more epic/extreme moniker, we could've had a 3 outta 3 for comics characters that shared names with 80s metal bands

[@axelprino]

While it would be nice for Venom to show up in the MCU I actually like that we're at least getting one Marvel movie series that doesn't require me to watch any other movie for context, I really do miss the way superhero movies were made during the 2000's when they were their own stand-alone things. I just wish we could get both at the same time, MCU movies and other Marvel movies where the characters existed in their own little narrative bubble, maybe if the MCU was downgraded to only streaming shows that could be doable.

[@mrmeteor64]

Funny story about a bar fight that was in the spider-man ultimate video game.

[@olserknam]

You know, I really appreciate you going over the actual comics instead of just adaptations. Usually I'd mention some obscure stuff from the comics the creator missed, but funnily enough, here I gotta mention stuff from the adaptations that you missed: Wolverine and Venom first had a bar fight in the 2005 Ultimate Spider-Man game (based on the Ultimate Spider-Man comics) where you got to play as Venom and Wolverine was the first boss fight. It wasn't more than a fun guest appearance, but still worth mentioning.

[@olserknam]

Update: glad to see you do actually show it. But now I remembered more obscure comics stuff! At least from my recollection, the Siege on Asgard storyline didn't have much to do with Scorpion being separated from a symbiote, that happened in the Spider-Man book a couple of years later. I was never a fan of Scorpion as Venom so that couldn't come a day too soon for me back in the day.

[@GustavoSuperSonic2001]

And yeah don't forget, Deadpool use the Symbiote in Secret "Secret" War and Black and white. Deadpool team up with Flash Thompson in the Thunderbolts. And has an extremely extravagant relationship with Carnage

[@dungeonsanddragonsbutformo9835]

Tbh good year for me Deadpool, wolverine and venom are my three favorite superheroes

[@nikolibarastov4487]

... I mean, as a massive Wolverine Fan, the lesser Wolverine films didn't work, even though Hugh tried to carry them. Despite being a Foot Taller than his Comic Counterpart, we loved his performance for all these years. The Venom movies I think play too much into humor, as Venom is meant to be at best an Obsessed Fanboy with a Sadistic Streak. He is not a Hero in the majority of his runs. So, not that the movies "ruined" Venom as a character, it's just not actually Venom.

[@thoughtswithjumeks]

I love ur video bro, you articulate your thoughts so well ❤🙌🏼

[@Gaia_BentosZX5]

Honestly, Venom really did feel like a last hurrah for Marvel as the bubble was going to burst. In the words of a yellow sea sponge, it was the direct result of a lethal interaction from lack of variety and a monopolistic distribution system. We're beginning to see where the lack of variety came into play before the monopoly ultimately strangled the comic book industry to the point of collapse.

[@chainsawmanfan25]

The teacher/mentor note is also pretty present in the 2000's cartoon x-men evolution

[@wethefreeproductions]

I guess I’m surprised they didn’t go with handicapped military veteran Flash for the Venom movies. Venom v Agent Venom.

[@Illitha]

I loved those comics. I hope we get that in film eventually

[@wethefreeproductions]

@@Illitha yeah, i was surprised that I liked him more than Eddie as a Venom host.

[@crowgirl9833]

I got that thunderbolts comic from the library as a kid and I was super excited cause the characters all seemed interesting, it was one of the biggest disappointments I’ve had reading comics and it’s one of the few I’ve started that I never finished. I only got about a quarter through, and I don’t remember much except that it seemed very red hulk centered and he was about the blandest character I’d ever read.

[@XX-uz2tc]

Venom movies were underwhelming. They made Eddie too goofy

[@scarletlarvesta]

Eddie has always been goofy, just look at the 90s comics where he started. He's ridiculous

[@XX-uz2tc]

@@scarletlarvesta I don’t read comics. Did he act like a goofy idiot in them ?

[@scarletlarvesta]

@@XX-uz2tc all the time, man. Okay not all the time, mostly in the 90s. He's not really silly in the 2000s, in the 2010s he's featured in a carnage series where he feels like a goofy uncle mixed with a serious soldier (no venom symbiote in that one, he has the toxin symbiote there and it doesnt really have a character that influences or interacts with Eddie), and in the Mike Costa run he's kinda silly. I haven't read the Cates run in full, but from the first couple of comics he's pretty serious. Oh and in a 2000s (i think) spider man video game he's very goofy

[@scarletlarvesta]

@@XX-uz2tc he's also often portrayed as kind of a big loser and kind of a dumbass in the comics, the levels of those varying a lot. Idk though I kind of like cringefail Eddie Brock/Venom but I totally understand and also would like a more serious and heroic venom, which I think he might have some of that in the Cates run

[@XX-uz2tc]

@@scarletlarvesta I always thought Eddie Brock was a tough type and a bully. I grew up on the 90s Spider-Man cartoon

[@morgalorga1987]

so its just the vegeta effect

[@SkipperWing]

mmmm.... this video feels like a bit of a reach, tying to find meaning and connection in a series of unconnected stories, trying to justify a video essay. You admit as much by contextualizing most of the retcons as being just that (insertions to create connection where little existed before), with the implicit admission that most of the connection wouldn't work without them. It, also, IMO, does X-23 and Flash Thompson a disservice by suggesting their main usage is in their connection to Wolverine and Venom, rather than Laura's own redemption, or the ongoing evolution of Flash's maturation and that changes his relationship with Peter Parker. And, of course, Venom's other connections in the MU, primarily Spider-man's role in Eddie's growth, both directly and indirectly. I think it's also a niche opinion to suggest that Wolverine and Venom need to interact with each other. Especially when Venom and Spider-man have yet to do so, or even be setup in such a way for that meeting to happen organically. I also don't think its healthy to suggest that just because the possibility for them to connect exists, means that it has to happen. Deadpool and Wolverine works because both are X-men adjacent characters traditionally. Wolverine and Venom, not so much, without the connecting fiber of "exists in a universe where their adjacent characters have more connection." This need for connection for connection's sake is also how we got to this era of crossover fatigue AND Disney solidifying its monopoly over the media landscape (i.e. Fans: wouldn't it be cool if so and so crossed over? Disney: So you're cool with us owning everything to make it happen? Fans: Sure!) But I watched the video in its entirety to see if the title was hyperbole or not, so well played.

[@Gaia_BentosZX5]

Welcome to comics. This your first time here? Does wasting a milestone comic on an imposter of world-renowned sonic the hedgehog from a negative-polarity universe created to fill a quota starts banging literally every girl in the comic make more sense than trying to make sense of an unusual relationship that began in a bar fight? If so, stop thinkin' with your sausage. Ken Penders would double-down on this with the Lara-Su Chronicles and breastfeeding echidnas and as he said in the end of the essay, you shouldn't be taking comics too seriously in the first place or you'd go mad. It's the story of Sonic Super Special #7. The crossover event between Image and Archie, which on top of Knuckles being a new character who was seen as a blank slate, gave the man known as Penders the oppertunity to hijack the comic because it didn't take itself seriously.

[@mrmeteor64]

O wait you already played it nice. But honestly I could never do the Press the l trigger and press the R trigger rapidly I couldn’t do that disability on the right arm.

[@im_the_spectre]

man this makes me kinda sad tbh lol I haven't really ever considered how much I take my arms for granted. We need to design a controller/attachment so that disabled people can enjoy the same games, nobody should have video games taken from them

[@turbo_spooky]

Bro forgot madame web came out this year

[@turbo_spooky]

It’s okay though because no one remembers

[@skeletonyouth616]

that's how bad it was

[@SHMOUSEY86]

If we're not counting Kraven which hasn't even come out yet, then we definitely don't count the flaming pile of whale shit that was Madame Web.

[@cidlunius1076]

Who?

[@hellobro-f4l]

im playing thru spiderman 2 rn and u just spoiled it for me

[@arianagrandefromfortnite]

my guy forgot about Madame Web and Kraven. I understand

[@caesertullo1824]

Anyone ever tell this guy he sounds like Stan Lee? What's up with that? Im convinced comicbook shannangins took place in the real world.

[@captainoftheneverdie21]

Deadpool appreciates being included but who have preferred being compared to his star crossed lover…. Spider-Man, lol

[@galvawave8403]

Venom to me has always been a very interesting character more than many give credit for who just dismiss him as "cool monster badguy". Unfortunately, his comics history can be a little messy as are the symbiotes as a whole since many writers ignored continuity to do whatever they want, but if you can ignore those typical comic problems Venom/Eddie still have a very interesting story.

[@DUBSDADEVILL]

The second Venom was not fun it was excruciatingly awfull.