The Fight of the (22nd) Century! Vulcan Vs Andoria

[@Starfoxfan-rg6iz]

am i the only one who finds it ironic yet funny when the enterprise nx-01 gets refit the Andorian shields and the Vulcan tractor beam emmiters interfere with one another before they fix the compatibility issues? even their technology doesn't get along with each other XD

[@trevynlane8094]

Interesting. The Vulcan "ironclads" are the biggest threat to the Andoreans while the Andorean battleships and torpedo boats are the biggest threats to the Vulcans. Fairly accurate for the Era of ships they act like

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Yeah well you can thank drach for introducing me to the period.

[@merafirewing6591]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 Guess I have to thank him for the sense of humor he really had.

[@barrybend7189]

Next Federation 22nd century fleet of the Romulan war.

[@occultatumquaestio5226]

Hm, interesting matchup. So basically, the Andorian strategy would be "Defense in Depth" while the Vulcan strat would be mix of "Blitzkrieg" and "Shock & Awe". I think victory would depend on if the Andorians are able to sufficiently whittle down the Vulcan offensive to the point of having counter-offensives that can lead to an armistice before the Vulcans penetrate deep enough to strike directly at Andoria itself. In such a hypothetical war however, victory would be pyrrhic, and the true winners would have been the Romulans.

[@Wedgekree]

The Andorians will defend their own space but not go on any offensive. Even then if the Vulcans deploy the majority of their fleet, fully mobilize, and commit their strategic reserves to the attack they'll very likely win due to numbers and attrition. The Vulcans can replace losses and have reserves. The Andorians do not. Presuming there's the political will to press on fully to the offensive and to accept the losses it will involve, the Vulcans are likelier to do better just as they can take them. Quantity can beat quality.

[@merafirewing6591]

​@@Wedgekree you forgot, quality can be a quantity all on it's own.

[@Wedgekree]

True! Quantity can be a quality. The Vulcan advatnage in small ships also makes for a much more effective leveraging of it.

[@merafirewing6591]

I do remember an episode in Enterprise where a D'Kyr got roflstomped by the TOS Defiant in the Mirror Universe which was a very unfair fight.

[@williammcconville4967]

Was in an alternative time line

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Yeah seems about right though for how much technology had advanced

[@trevynlane8094]

An armored cruiser versus a casemate ironclad. Yea, seams like a reasonable outcome

[@mackenziebeeney3764]

Yeah that’s a century of advancement for you. Plus those were torpedos the Defiant used right? So not surprised a full photon torpedo destroys a D’Kyr easily.

[@merafirewing6591]

@@mackenziebeeney3764 imagine what wonders would 23rd century technology do to a D'Kyr if it was upgraded?

[@davidponseigo8811]

Good evening, I have been saving this video most of my day just so I could settle in to bed and watch. Thanks.

[@richard1701able]

This analysis was, in my opinion, a song of Ice vs Fire.

[@jhallam2011]

Loved that episode and yours as well! Thanks Venom!

[@alanmike6883]

We do know that the Romulans wanted the local powers to fight each other to weaken themselves

[@TheRezro]

It is my theory (as sources are bit inconsistent), but if they make Romulan War war movie. The events should roughly look like that: Sudan appearance of Earth screw Romulan plans as humans have good contact with all major powers in the region. It is not particularly obvious but Alpha quadrant at the time was literal wild west frontier. Mostly unexplored, uninhabited and full of small rouge human colonies (future Maquis) preventing exploration (it is why Ferengi weren't discovered until 24'th century despite basically sharing border with Earth). Because of that Romulans sneak through border with the whole region (where Archer bump on the mine) with intend to sneak nuke the Earth. What considering region would not be that weird. What they should do is that after incident where Columbia is lost (Romulns assume it was border stronghold instead explorer supply station), Romulan fleet decide to rush in directly toward Earth assuming opposition wold be weak. What was grave mistake. Only in the middle of the enemy territory they realize that Earth is actually local power (and not as Vulcan describe them primitives) and that they basically are surrounded by larger number of frigates (Ganges, Freedoms, Discoveries, Dedalus, NX, NV, NC, and old but capable Masers and Marshals destroyers, etc.). So they basically stuck not being capable to effectively push of retreat. But they can prevent attack using they signature masking to appear as larger fleet as they actually were. Situation become dire and So Romulans have no other option then attack directly or risk loosing whole fleet, what could be swarmed by Earth. Unfortunately it trigger other powers who join fight on side of Earth (over time Earth start construction Poseidon and Minuteman Destroyers, plus Yorktown Battleships what can face Romulans as equals. Even start working on Strider Light Escorts, though they probably didn't entered service before end of the war, being more Bonaventure Era, as side note Loknar is clearly NX refit). And rest of the story is better know. When Romulas were almost destroyed, they are capable negotiating neutral zone. Posing as stronger then they actually were.

[@wonttakemein272]

ONG bro i made myself some tea to enjoy your videos more there always a treat

[@shmee123ful]

Well of course the Vulcan ships are going to go fast, their red and as we know. Red ones go faster

[@nicholaswalsh4462]

I would argue that the battle in Kirshara Part III indicates a very significant advantage to the Andorians. You have 4 Kumaris, the quintessential heavy cruiser, dueling 4 Dkyr battleships and they are managing to keep pace. They aren't winning but they also aren't losing. If you were to put the Kumaris against Shrans or Suraks, the Vulcans would be battered into retreat rapidly. And if a Kival was available, those Dkyrs would rapidly find themselves crippled and forced to flee. Ton for ton, class for class, I would argue the Andorians have much superior ships. The Andorians know they can't match the Vulkans for numbers so they have to make their smaller numbers count for more. And we see that in Kirshara.

[@SuperGamefreak18]

Ya know I just thought about something, would it be sound to compare the vulcan fleet and the andorian fleet, to an elephant and tiger fighting. Vulcan fleet being an elephant and an andorian fleet being a tiger.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Good comparison

[@rodan9773]

HELL YES LOVE THESE VIDEOS. I wonder why The Vulcans didn't try to make their own version of a Fedaration Ship like their previous design just modinised The Warp Ring The Ships shape but Fedaration White/Silver. Respect and keep up the epic work.

[@merafirewing6591]

That would be awesome like a D'Kyr Mark 2, Surak Mark 2, and S'Hran Mark 2, and the like.

[@shanenolan8252]

I remember in a game there was a federation type Vulcan starship. Surak type but the federation colour. Tos period. , i saw it in a KZbin video.

[@shanenolan8252]

I remember. Search. Surak class starship . ( 14 years old )

[@merafirewing6591]

@@shanenolan8252 And I found another Vulcan starship called the Suurok class starship, I think it might be a similar Variant to the Surak class.

[@shanenolan8252]

@@merafirewing6591 cool mera , il look for it

[@alexandercaires5921]

Very nice. Definitely is a different take than just using 20th century naval doctrine in space. As someone else said, it's very much a late 19th early 20th century Fleet doctrine match up

[@brianjohnson5272]

Hey Venom, i would like to see a breakdown of a Miranda class vs. A constitution class. Yes the classic NCC-1865 vs. NCC 1701-A! Maybe a breakdown of why Khan's strike was so effective and maybe why Scotty brokedown when Pressman died.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Interesting matchup. Worth considering

[@lanceheaps581]

It was actually the NCC-1701 not the A. A was not seen until Star Trek 4 and not featured until Star Trek 5.

[@matthewdoyle3628]

Scotty broke down over Preston as I believe he was his nephew according to sources.

[@brianjohnson5272]

@@matthewdoyle3628 its a deleted scene in WoK so it is canon.

[@mariajohnson-tanner2720]

​@@matthewdoyle3628Peter Preston is Scotty's nephew.

[@shanenolan8252]

Count dooku . Iv been looking forward to this.

[@samuelvine]

Have you done a specific comparison of the Earth vs Vulcans or Earth vs Andorians? I'd love to see those!

[@mackenziebeeney3764]

Wooden age of sail ships could sometimes be centuries old, and they didn’t live to see the mid 20th century for obvious reasons. I see the torpedo and advancements of weapons technology making these older classes too obsolete to retrofit. I wonder how much retrofits would compromise the hulls.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Yeah these ships wouldn't last into the 23rd century.

[@VkmSpouge]

In the battle between Shran's task force and the Vulcan ships, I think Shran's best bet would be to have the Kumari's target the D'Kyr's warp rings. If the Vulcans can't go to warp (or even limited to warp 2-3 because of damage) that should slow them down enough for the Imperial Guard to have established another more substantial line of defence.

[@SPatrickRoss]

I wonder how the Vulcan and Andorian fleets stack up against the other powers of that period?

[@abaddonapollyon4822]

I'm looking forward to federation fleet in romulan war.

[@richardscathouse]

That'll be embarrassing

[@abaddonapollyon4822]

I didn't say it would be pretty but I still looking forward to another great story.

[@davidcalvert5849]

Interesting that you consider these two powers as the strongest in the era, I would have considered the klingon empire to still be vastly larger and more powerful than any of the currently single species future federation founders, I only say that based on how their combined might along with dozens of other single species powers in forming the federation finally gave them parity with the klingons, surely non of them alone were anywhere near the power of the empire.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

They've yet to take a lot of key worlds like krios in this time.

[@davidcalvert5849]

@Venom Geek Media 98 it's been a long time since I've watched enterprise so is it accepted that the klingons aren't very expansionist in this time then.

[@Gymbro_069]

how would an all out war go between the Andorian Empire VS the Vulcan Confederacy with no support from any other powers ?

[@admiralcasperr]

Which of these ships are from which "canonness"? IE. from Enterprise, some game, or wherever.

[@casbot71]

Completely off topic, but it's strange how Humanity had almost a century of being up close with the more advanced Vulcans under their stewardship, but didn't take "inspiration" from Vulcan ship designs. And in the mirror universe it's really really strange, as Humanity just hijacked and reverse engineered Vulcan ships and somehow ended up with the NX-GTI class.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Well that's because the vulcans refused to share tech with earth. They wanted to see how human tech developed.

[@rodan9773]

I was wondering if The Cardasians got their collective act together and modernized everything and created a Stable Society - Government and Military would they eventually be a threat to The Romulans ? because as far as i have seen Cardasians can be just as sly and ambitious and Underhanded as The Romulans can be

[@occultatumquaestio5226]

Well in the game Star Trek Online, the Cardassian are stronger than the Romulans given the Cardassians have rebuilt to the point of having their own dreadnoughts like the Damar class while the Romulans are divided & scattered with the loss of their capital.

[@shanenolan8252]

@@occultatumquaestio5226 agreed. Although i think they have or are preparing to become federation members., but 20s years after the war they are quite recovered and are a major shipbuilding economy for the ferengi

[@merafirewing6591]

​@@shanenolan8252 To the ferengi they want the Cardies to be paying gold pressed latinum.

[@crownprincesebastianjohano7069]

The Cardassians emerged from the War in a much better position than one would expect. The damage was contained to a handful of systems and Cardassia Prime. But, the Treaty of Bajor was explicit in its lack of punitive clauses so the Cardassians lost no territory, had no limits on its military and inherited all that Dominion tech and the industrial base with it. Given the jump we saw in Cardassian military effectiveness during the War, and the trauma of the attempted Xenocide, while the Cardassians are quite able to protect themselves and can build a new fleet that is the peer of the other powers, they also no longer thirst for conquest. With the Dominion tech, they no longer need to expand to acquire new resources, as demonstrated by the Dominion's industrial prowess. Good relations with the Federation is the cherry on top. The can 100% focus on internal development while stepping aside from the Great Game. Like post-War West Germany without the restrictions and with its military intact.

[@rodan9773]

@@crownprincesebastianjohano7069 That was epic thanks for that 😃👍.

[@carbondragon]

I did like the ring warp style ship they did in Enterprise. If we believe Enterprise is a prequel to TOS (which I'm not convinced of), then they are MUCH weaker than a Constitution. They seemed to be relatively equal between the Vulcans and the Andorians ... relatively. I thought the idea that the Andorians were disadvantaged a little was because the whole Andorian fleet wasn't there.

[@richardscathouse]

I thought the Vulcans and Andorians had shields.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

They do but only 22nd century sheilds

[@45580677]

Dear Venom I wanted to say this b efore I forgot again. I was thinking on the Dominion War and Once More Unto the Breach where Kor took on 10 to 1 and after effects as the Klingons getting there act together a new generation as most of the old killed in battle and leaders who failed to place such a capable commander as we saw the Klingons Generals all battle harden and thinking of the Empire not the rash or plotting kind and I think Kor death healed a wound in the Empire they lost at Kit A legend needed in a dark time for the Empire and Martok tale and shame but also that Martok aide I believe the Organian there at Kor end and fate to be and the way Kor look up to see and knew with hope and heal to once more fight one last battle Heroes never die and Kor the Undying will never be forgotten and a sense of honor and duty long lost plus as said force Gowron to remove the war leadership with battle harden and proven then pre war as oversight add in the youth inspired and Klingons sense of hope as before on edge but if Kor can fight 10 to 1 and even now with the Breen they know they can

[@merafirewing6591]

Kor is forever the most based old school klingon.

[@fullmetalgamers1276]

Vulcans are like onions...so they're ogres not hobgoblins?