Why Vulcan was the Superpower of the 22nd century! Vulcan Fleet Doctrine.

This week we come back to the 22nd century to take a closer look at the most poweful fleet of the era: The Vulcan High Commnand. looking at the various classes of ship employed, along with the doctrine and tactics behind their employment.
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And the boys at the 4th Combined Fleet.

[@VVeremoose]

There's a subtle similarity between Vulcan warp drive configuration and the D'deridex-class warp drive configuration which - if deliberate - was a fantastic design choice.

[@shanehudson3995]

Almost like they both came to the same logical conclusion.

[@NoobNoobNews]

In star trek Canon, the ring is efficient. The most.

[@keyboardt8276]

The D'deridex is using the standard dual nacelle configuration though, just with coverings at the top and bottom

[@VVeremoose]

@@keyboardt8276 "subtle similarity"

[@aquariandawn4750]

​@@VVeremoose A visual similarity. One uses a ring, the other uses two nacelles. Has a visual similarity only.

[@_BLACKSTAR_]

The Vulcans had the best tech probably followed closely by the Andorians.

[@barrybend7189]

Then Humanity by third place by out pacing everyone else like a Civ game being played by Spiffing Brit.

[@Qardo]

@Barry Bend If Spiff was in charge of Earth Government. Humanity likely somehow end up having Transwarp drive and captured the Born Queen before the Federation was founded. Do not ask how he managed it. Best not to ask. Also, would likely had that war with the Romulans and had one with the cheesiest of cheese tactics. What that tactic is, I don't know. This is the Spiffin Brit! You NEVER underestimate a Brit!

[@VVeremoose]

@@Qardo Spiff is Section 31

[@nsg_kuunda4786]

What about the xindi when all actually cooperating?

[@Zoko2299]

Tholians are up there as well. The fact they can disable even Vulcan ships quickly is no easy thing to do.

[@farshnuke]

I love the look Enterprise gives us of the Vulcans and I'd be interested to see what a Dominion war era Vulcan ship would be like

[@russc788]

Yes I enjoyed Enterprise in this way also. Also the long story arcs and lack of boring omnipotent power if you know what I mean.

[@farshnuke]

@@russc788 Yeah DS9 actually scaled back on the power creep by having the station be Cardassian and far from the heart of Federation territory. Venom has covered how the Defiant is not quite the godkiller memes make it out to be and the Dominion makes them feel on the backfoot and undergunned a lot. Voyager should have actually been horrifically underpowered since it was an experimental ship that was supposed to be on a 2 week mission and half the crew gone but then the writers treated it like TNG. Enterprise had no Starfleet core of ships to back it up, no magical reset button powers to heal the ship at the end of the episode and was literally making up the tech as it went along to cope.

[@russc788]

@@farshnuke And no replicators or holodecks. It’s for the same reasons I don’t like Superman

[@farshnuke]

@@russc788 And a transporter that is still dangerous and rarely used for people.

[@wedgeantillies66]

Vulcan fleet certainly was totally adequate for power projection, protecting territory and expanding its influence throughout the whole of the 22 century. until formation of the federation. Though do have to wonder if Vulcan had gone all military dictatorship under vlaas in season four of enterprise if we would have seen a change in military ship design and strategy to reflect that.

[@chrisortega7521]

A Xindi Aquatic ship could match at least 2 D'Kir-class ships in combat, me thinks. Not only were the Xindi Aquatic ships massive, but they were also the most technologically-advanced of the Xindi. I'd wager they rivaled the Vulcans.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

True but they were mostly cut off from the rest of the galaxy. And unlike the dkyr they are slow.

[@VVeremoose]

Big doesn't necessarily equate combat effectiveness

[@keyboardt8276]

The aquatic ship had to be larger because the crew themselves were larger and water-based. In addition the fact that the main medium aboard was water and not air likely made the ship extremely massive for its size and thus less maneuverable

[@tompearce5418]

The Vulcans developed warp drive before most Alpha Quadrant powers did, and had time to go exploring. They also passed on the benefits of their experience to Starfleet.T'Pol's instinctive aversion to get involved in the problems of others seen in the pilot episode of Enterprise is probably part of her military training, and found its way into the Federation Constitution as the Prime Directive.

[@Relav1364]

The Vulcan Navy strikes me as very capable, very high tech, but the Vulcan High Command became complacent in their tech edge. Andorians manage to keep pace, Klingons had them beat for numbers, and Earth shocked everyone by making an almost as capable fleet in decades for what took Vulcan centuries. Good stuff!

[@VVeremoose]

Humans are good at war is a common trope. DS9 alludes to it pretty often with members of the more martial races frequently commenting on how humans fight above their perceived ability.

[@Relav1364]

@@VVeremoose Enterprise from Broken Bow to Earth-Romulan war is about 20 years. So in 20 years, Earth went from a Vulcan Colony in all but name to a galactic power that beat the Romulans, with all of 5-6 NX Class Starships. That's damn impressive

[@VVeremoose]

@@Relav1364 yeah I didn't care for that arc personally. Balance of Terror portrays the Earth Romulan war as a protracted and terrible conflict which still fostered hatred generations later. It was resolved too quickly and bloodlessly in Enterprise imo.

[@Relav1364]

@@VVeremoose well... That's cause it never actually happened. Season 5 got cancelled yo

[@VVeremoose]

@@Relav1364 yeah but they set the stage and it was kind of banal

[@timothymiller4475]

The d'kyr looks like something out the covenent navy. I love the design.

[@Wedgekree]

Unrelated thing - but how do you see build times in general for ships in the 22nd, 23rd, and 24th centuries? For all the economic mobilization of the Federation in the Dominion War, you don't really get an idea of how fast they can build ships. So how long in each 'era' might you say building something like a destroyer/cruiser/etc take for the major powers?

[@jts1702a]

This is the moment when I realized that the mission pod on the Oberth class is a direct descendent of Vulcan ship design, but somehow mashed together with Earth shipbuilding traditions. What other non-Earth designs can we find on Starfleet ships?

[@96polo]

I wonder why, but for me the vulcan ships are similar design to mon calamari ships design at least with shape of the hull (long, bulky and round). But again awesome video :)

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Certainly the D'kyr and some of the smaller ships

[@MinTy-zw7sz]

I realise this would likely be an awful lot of work, but perhaps you could make a series of videos based on a fictional Vulcan-Andorian war, of course that would mean it would entirely be a scenario where you made it but I, and im sure im not the only one, would be very interested to see your thoughts and what you think might/could happen during a war like that. Perhaps in a format similar to how you did the Earth-Romulan war videos. Either way, truly love your videos, keep up the good work!

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Interesting idea. I am interested in covering what if scenarios

[@frankowalker4662]

I enjoyed that a lot. Great research. Thank you.

[@merafirewing6591]

I wonder what would a 23rd century or 24th century Vulcan fleet would look like had the Federation never formed? Also wasn't there another Vulcan type clas of Battleship that does exist aside from the D'Kyr?

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

the Sh'ran but thats about it.

[@juandeaustrias2233]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 read somewhere that Sh'ran was like the 22nd century Connies of early Federation

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

@@juandeaustrias2233 yeah that makes a lot of sense

[@saalkz.a.9715]

I vaguely remember that there was a triple ring/nacelle design, but I'm not sure if we ever got a name.

[@chrissonofpear1384]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 The new Sh'vhal design from Lower Decks looks at least 1.4 km long, meantime - maybe even a mile (about 3 times the Cerritos, by eyeballing it) That should give even the Borg a small pause...

[@TimothyChapman]

Thanks for forcing me to rethink my own 22nd Century fleet.

[@chubbyfun77]

I find ST ships modelled of cup and saucer set. At firs did not like designs but the Klingon ships I find quite attractive.

[@stevenewman1393]

🖖😎👍Very cool and very nicely well done and very informatively explained and executed in every detail and every way shape and form possibly provided on every vessel of the Vulcan fleet and every task of each of these ships and its combat abilities in a fire fight and so forth indeed👌.

[@matthewkeeling886]

Perhaps the "Vulkas" class ships we see later are a modernized version, considered a different class, with more capable equipment and something about the power output or the ID signal told T'Pol that the ship was of the older type? Or it could have been a type with a different mission profile that has since been retired while the more combat oriented version hasn't? UK in the 1950s built a bunch of Frigates on the same hull and they went out of service at different rates so that has been done in reality.

[@braddl9442]

It might have been Retired from say front line service. But if it was an older ship, they most likely had a mothball fleet like most IRL nations have with their navies that they can reactivate. Uk has about 75 ships that are good enough to reactivate and modernize if they need them. The USA has a few hundred ships scattered about the country that are kept in reactivation conditions.

[@trevynlane8094]

I would class the 22nd century ship doctrine as being closer to early steam Ironclads in role. The corvettes act the way monitor ironclads/gunboats of that era, doing in system patrol and providing supplemental firepower. The frigates act the way steamfrigates would act, doing longer range patrol and scouting while hanging back to provide fire support in big battles. And the cruisers act as casemate ironclads, being the line units that fight most major battle, hitting hard and taking big hits, but being very expensive to operate and so only used in limited numbers.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Yeah. I think there definitely a case for comparing it to the ironclad age more than the 1890s in the 24th century.

[@jameshead9119]

This is one thing that I’ve since first contact on prior to that the main cannon was that the Volcans had been an isolationist colture up until joking the federation much like japan prior admiral Perry visit for some where from 5000 to 50,0000 years when they retreaded to Volcan ( quite possible due to a war that devastated the alpha quadrant signs of which could still be seen in many of the original series such as the doomsday weapon and blip and is mentioned in a second gen story where a civil war is mentioned with a transects quadrant civilisation that used hyper-long transporters some 80,000 years ago )

[@lynngreen7978]

From STO and other sources, I'd made the D'Vahl as a Escort (since the D'kyr has two as support ships), and they pegged the Vahklas as a Transport. Maybe its like the Miranda, an LC or maybe BC, when it was first built, but a Frigate at best a century later. (Mirandas, like Oberths might even make it into civilian use, without the rollbar or other heavy combat options) I note the Tal'kyr as a Scout. So all that's missing is a Destroyer class. But looking at the Tal'kyr and D'Vahl inscale, perhaps the D'vahl should be a Scout/Corvette/Escort and the Tal'kyr the Escort/Destroyer.

[@WUZLE]

Enterprise had its problems, but it had some very pretty ships. I’m a big fan of the Vulcan ones.

[@occultatumquaestio5226]

Yeah the usage of the term "Superpower" in terms of Milky Way astropolitics is somewhat click-baity as aside from the Borg and Dominion there aren't really any conventional/corporeal galactic superpowers in 22nd century Trek. However, the Vulcans are indeed the predominant great/regional power in the Alpha/Beta quadrants during this time and they're a force to be reckoned with. It's a good thing Humans managed to get both the Vulcans and Andorians on Humanity's side.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Yeah I admit it was a bit click-baity

[@jhallam2011]

Love these type of videos although your story telling is still my favorite. I’m so far behind on your vids. It’s gonna take me time to catch up but thanks for keeping them coming!

[@NCC-72545A]

I now I'm not one of your members but I thank you should do a video on both the 22nd century's United Earth Starfleet and Tellurides fleet groups I mean you have anyone on the Vulcans and about to release one of the andorians might as well do one on the last two founding members of Federation as well

[@elcowabungahe-man6156]

Nice ships the Vulcan have i can see the Romulan cousins got inspiration but I prefer the Romulans ship designs especially the 23 century Nova and the 24 century Big Warbird

[@davidbricejr.7340]

fascinating

[@lynngreen7978]

Tricked us. After the past week, I thought this would be the Breen breakdown, paving the way for the Battle of Sol (Dominion War Edition).

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Not just yet. Betazed comes first then earth.

[@lynngreen7978]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 So probably 4 more long form breakdowns in addition to December 2375.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

@@lynngreen7978 sure...

[@luispanaderoguardeno3306]

I would like to know how fits the "future" Vulcan ship that it's show quickly on the Daniel's time thing

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Oh no not that cursed thing

[@sydneysmith1521]

I have often wondered just how much the Vulcans and the Klingons knew about each other prior to first contact with Earth. It is clear the Vulcan knew about the Romulans, but had limited contact with them. Was the distance between the Vulcans and Klingons an issue that kept them separate?

[@MrBottlecapBill]

I believe in Enterprise when they capture the Klingon they want to return to the empire the vulcans advise that Enterprise use the same strategy that them themselves use when they come in contact with Klingon ships........and that is to attack instantly. That was......as the Vulcans believed the only way to gain any respect from the Klingons and prevent them harassing your vessels. So I assume that means they have plenty of contact with Klingons before contact with Earth.

[@That80sGuy1972]

Well, they had some of their kind leave (probably not non-violently) before they became the unified Vulcan people in the first place... so them being a kind of sleeping giant in super-potential during that time was not at all absurd, nor even strange. I mean, some of their kin became the nasty OG Romulans and virtual stone-age (agrarian age TNG) Mintakans.

[@elcowabungahe-man6156]

You have to admire the vulcans many of this designs were reusable and upgrades for the 24 century they make ships and continues to use the same designs with upgrades

[@RenBR]

Awesome video :)

[@Kref3]

I always assumed that when the Federation and Starfleet came into being all the founding members, Andorians, Vulcans, Tellarites and Humans shared their tech and all Federation era StarFleet ships were essentially at Vulcan tech level yet kept the Human base design. I really cannot imagine a highly advanced power like the Vulcans would join an organization like Star Fleet if there still was a highly superior Vulican high command.

[@alanmike6883]

Venom geek media. They definitely were the big boys but it makes me wonder if they were a great power of their time, how did the romluans plan to take Vulcan over?

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

By infiltration I suspect

[@alanmike6883]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 Coz I don't see them taking on Vulcan militarily do you? Imagine if the earth Romulan war was actually the earth klingon war? Same set up. Could it be a alternate forming of the federation?. Vulcan seemed to be a match for the klingons of that era and with no Romulan ship take over tech, the Vulcan could give more support to the alliance then it actually did the other way around...? 🤔

[@barrybend7189]

Can we see the 22nd century fleet for Earth seen in Star Trek Legacy?

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Might cover that eventually.

[@misterlau5246]

That's something I always wondered when I was a kid and watched ST, movies, TNG, etc. Where are the Vulcan ships? 😅 🤣

[@htownjesse]

Remember the Vulcan long range shuttle in TMP? I read somewhere that many Fed worlds keep their own type of ship designs for defense of their home systems. Which would explain why we don't see them.

[@misterlau5246]

@@htownjesse yes, I was a kid and I was watching the movies, the few times at Vulcan, no ships... Ok first contact.. One ship 😅

[@JeanLucCaptain]

The moment you see Thrawns Chimera docked with the Eye of Scion and it's basically a Vulkan ISD 🧐

[@shanenolan8252]

You had me with the title.

[@brentbartley6838]

And yet immediately admitted it was clickbait. Props for THAT at least. Alot of channels are shameless with clickbait titles without acknowledging they're clickbait. A certain car mechanic KZbinr is notorious for it though I still like his content, guy knows his stuff.

[@SPatrickRoss]

I wonder what formation they gave the Klingons a Vulcan Hello.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

probably a "lance"

[@enterprise1701e]

I wonder if we'll see an Earth Starfleet, and Romulan doctrine in this era. I know which species you're referencing at the end, ;).

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Possibly ;)

[@justicekreider2978]

My favorite ship by far is the Jellyfish ship from the new Star trek movies

[@andrewblanchard2398]

the VULCANs were in space nearly 300 years before the KLINGONS & ROMULANS & NEARLY 500 years before HUMANS

[@enoughothis]

Space Elves for the win

[@balli7836]

Would you say that the 22nd century Vulcans are more powerful than the 22nd century Klingons?

[@ronaldfabricante2158]

What about the Vulcan ships featured in next generation during the unification episodes?

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Boring

[@nsg_kuunda4786]

Vulcans have tactics? I thought they just only did things when they feel like it, and clearly outgun whoever the situation requires.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

I mean basically it boils down to weather or not cruisers lead or escorts lead?

[@arc-Droper]

To be fair a design can be retired but the ship still be in service

[@alexisdespland4939]

how long before the federation forms is surak.

[@alanmike6883]

Vgm. What if instead of the klingons and the federation becoming allies, what would things like like had it been the romluans and the federation? Say like the detapa council, the democratic elements in the Romulan empire won out?

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Detapa council is cardassian. Romulans and humans working together... thats a terrifying prospect. we are a lot alike

[@alanmike6883]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 Of course. There were people in the romluan empire that wanted a cardassian style detapa council 😊 Just saying how history might be different if the federation and the klingons never made peace but the Romulans did. The 1st and 3rd of the great powers joining forces. For one vgm there would be no restrictions on cloaking technology? 😊

[@stephenfarthing3819]

I would describe the Vulcans as a strong power in the Galaxy. Otherwise that is a fair point to make.

[@stuchatterton6550]

On one hand, war is not logical. On the other, who really wants a bunch of pissed off Vulcans knocking on their door....

[@senatuspopulusqueromanus2082]

1:52 those are two different ships even visually

[@karrde5566]

Vulcan ships look kinda like Protoss ships dont they?

[@allen5253]

Being a superpower is not based on the tech. The Vulcan were the superpower based on their fleet strength and role in galaxy. It's on your overall power, economic, military and diplomatic. Yes the average superpower has higher technology than contemporaries.its not based on comparison of tech from the old superpower from the 14th century to modern superpower!

[@toriasdax2166]

It makes me wonder “what if StarFleet never existed.” You don’t need to do much to start this what if I think you could say WWIII made Earth uninhabitable and Humanity died, or that simply the Vulcan science ship didn’t detect the Phoenix. And then Bam! “What would happen?” Would the Romulans become the dominant power in the Alpha Quadrant? would the Vulcans, Andorians, Klingons, and Romulans be forever stuck in an unending war between each other. I feel like there are a lot of possibilities with this.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Oh yeah that's a very likely possibility...

[@Yarkoonian]

what does plasma cannon D//V mean?

[@misterlau5246]

I still don't get the Photon torpedoes vs Photonic ones

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z6nafHWtiNdseck Cover the difference here

[@braddl9442]

They are both part of the same type of weapons. But its a matter of yeild and capabilities. The photonic stuff was lower yield and not warp capable. While the photon stuff was much more massive a yield and warp capable. And Quantum are the upgrade to that system. They are all anti mater based.

[@misterlau5246]

@@braddl9442 oh thank you. That's what I don't understand...Ok I know a Photon torpedo is matter - antimatter annihilating and results in high energy photons. Alright. Photon torpedo. Then, the Photonic hasn't warp capabilities, and quantum.. Hmm antimatter matter reaction is a quantum physics effect, after all. Oh fancy names 😅 Plasma weapons, ok that's super hot particles. Plasmatic weapons? 😅 🤣

[@bigevil1001]

What about the Romulans? Are they not the superpower?

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

no not really. thats why they had to act from behind the scenes. and went for the weakest (Humanity) first

[@bigevil1001]

@@venomgeekmedia9886It's just usually it was suggested they were a rival to the Federation and since the Federation was made up of many species, including the Vulcans, I figured that meant they must have been at least more powerful than the individual Federation members. Also I thought the Romulans working behind the scenes suggested that they were the dominant power and preventing Humans, Vulcans, and Andorians from getting too friendly was their attempt at keeping things that way. I thought they feared taking direct action might result in them joining together against a common enemy (which is ultimately what happened anyway).

[@doords]

Dont Vulcans have WMDs that can destroy planets that they just choose to not use it.

[@alexisdespland4939]

why do vulcans and andorians not like eachother.

[@Relav1364]

Mostly just competing territorial ambitions. Their space is right next to each other. Andorians are also pretty angsty people, and they don't like the arrogance of Vulcans.

[@wyrmshadow4374]

The Carbon Creek ship was not the same as Duval

[@merafirewing6591]

It might be a different kind of class entirely.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

if you mean the survey ship that crashed. yes. but im talking about the ship that appears at the end, and will go on to be re-used.

[@G_Signer]

22 century? 2022 is still 21 century bro, and what Volcans? some fake info here im affraid

[@wolfmeadows]

In Star Trek timeline. Warp speed was achieved in 2063

[@TheWoblinGoblin]

It goes without saying... And then you say a lot which is actually stuff that contradicts the statement Huh?

[@brand8590]

Vulcan ships are the worst ships in Star Trek. Vulcan ships are also the only ships in Star Fleet that actually look alien.

[@timothygalli9601]

Great video venom were there any fleet engagement s between the vulcans and andorians? Can you do a video on the Andorian fleet ?