Who invented The Bird of Prey?

[@FrakkinGaiusBaltar]

A question as old as "what came first? The brid-of-prey or the egg-of-prey?"

[@crewdawg2008]

It was the egg. No matter what context you put it in, the egg came first

[@occultatumquaestio5226]

This is an interesting Chicken/Egg situation. The Klingons and Romulans do have quite the back and forth when it comes to ship R&D. By the 24th century & beyond though, indeed Bird of Prey becomes more ubiquitous Klingon while Warbird is more ubiquitous with Romulan.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Yeah so I guess the question is. Do the klingons now get to say what is or isn't a bird of prey.

[@raw6668]

Fun fact, the Bird of Prey in Search of Spock was originally supposed to be a Romulan ship with Kirk fighting the Romulans over Genesis. But the Romulans were not a household name at the time so they feared audiences would like the movie. The Klingons were more well-known due to the first movie, so it became a Klingon ship. So, I like to think it was developed by both but the Klingons were the ones to pick it up for mass production realizing they need small warships they can mass produce to match the technologically superior Federation with numbers over quality. While the Romulans focused on the Warbird concept to make larger and more powerful capital ships to, at the very least, intimidate powers that could defeat them by not invading their territory. It would not surprise me it was a joint project where the Klingons and Romulans developed the smaller Bird of Preys to support the powerful Warbirds in joint fleets but due to politics and tactics developed by each power, focused on one concept over the other.

[@JaredLS10]

Was about to bring up your first point. I'm glad it was made a Klingon ship, other then how Chang used it in Undiscovered Country firing cloaked like a Romulan would I feel it fits better with the Klingon's way of fighting.

[@jollyjohnthepirate3168]

Paramount already had the Bird of Prey models built and filmed when the change to screen play were made.

[@globalcitizen8321]

The Defiant class would be some kind of Federation heavy Bird of Prey... or pocket battleship.

[@shanenolan8252]

It effectively is .

[@larqven0192]

A little ship that can appear out of nowhere and hit with a big punch that's greater than might be expected of its weight class might always have some use. It's more efficient than colossal ships. I would argue that the Romulans still had BoP, they were just rarely seen in the 24th C. When taking the risk to decloak for negotiations, if would make sense to use the larger, tougher and more powerful warbirds. Likewise, the more resource and manufacturing poor Kligons likely needed BoP to help keep them in the game? Also, the navies of the Great Houses are often going to be much more limited than what a centralized government can do. It makes sense that old cruisers and lots of differing BoP would be present. Raids between houses and in times of civil war, or against the Romulans or Federation or anyone else would make an inexpensive 'sub' that can strike unexpectedly to even the odds

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

The main issue for BOPs in the 24th century is the size of their prey which are proportionally much larger than BOPs Regarding klingons. The BOP was originally meant to be a support asset but it became more ubiquitous probably as a result of Praxis ect.

[@barrybend7189]

I think Bird Of Prey is the human name of the ship type. it just so happens that both Romulans and Klingons use a similar style of ship.

[@shanenolan8252]

Logical

[@TheCsel]

I imagine both planets have some sort of predatory bird that swoops down to catch prey. So it probably appeals to both races, even if the native terms are different

[@LazarusRemains]

The Orions use pretty similar ships too. I think all three exchanged a lot of technology.

[@Mrs.Grave5433]

Agreed I have no issue with this and I am a stickler for canon.

[@nekophht]

I like the idea that it's all translation stuff. I mean, looking up "bird" in the Klingon-English dictionary shows a variety of bird types, and the Bird of Prey (toQDuj) is named after one type (toQ). Romulans might named theirs after a type of bird trained for use in battle in ancient times - a "bird of war" / "war bird" and early translations into English might've missed some nuance, and thought they were referring to a more general "bird of prey" type of bird, while later translations spotted that and corrected the translation. I like to think that the B'rel was a joint Romulan-Klingon project where Romulans provide cloaking device and knowledge, and the Klingons provide shipbuilding expertise and weapon tech. Then some Klingons steals a prototype to go investigate the Genesis project (possibly killing Romulans in the process of stealing the ship), and the Romulan-Klingon alliance (finally?) falls apart over the fallout between the two governments from the theft.

[@Ensign_Nemo]

The Klingon 'heavy frigate' that you described sounded much like the American frigates during the War of 1812. They were able to outgun British frigates and were usually fast enough to outrun British ships of the line. They seriously annoyed the Royal Navy, but that was about all that six frigates could be expected to do during the Napoleonic era.

[@Nejiranu]

Annoyed them enough to build from the ground up a class of frigates in a similar style, and convert huge numbers of aging third rate ships of the line by cutting down a gun deck, but keeping the full masts and rigging.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Good comparison. The only ships that could threaten the BOP would be the NX or Orion barge

[@jamesahoffman]

It probably was co-developed, because if there was one thing about a "bird of prey" is a ship with an operational cloking system. Keeping in mind during TOS, the klingons trade the D-7 to the Romulans for their cloke.

[@mikeyearwood]

Cloak

[@davidturner7812]

It doesn’t have anything to do with the cloaking device. The Romulans had birds of prey they admired on Romulas. They designed their ships to resemble birds of prey even down to the paint scheme.

[@lancerevell5979]

The comment about the Romulans and Klingons not able to agree on a single design for both, reminds me of the American and German disagreement on the MBT70/KPZ70 tank, or various aircraft projects in Europe, each nation ultimately designing their own.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Well eventually we did the tornado and eurofighter. Although France did its own thing.

[@Rocketsong]

In Balance of Terror, the Romulan ship is never actually called a Bird of Prey. While Stiles describes the artwork, "they're painted like a giant bird of prey", the ship itself is never called out as such. We call it a Bird of Prey, because the AMT Model said Romulan Bird of Prey on the Box. AMT had the license for the original models. This was of course long before FASA.

[@chrisgay4786]

I mean, TOS/balance of terror episode, it's really a story of: How do we have a submarine battle in space. It works really good too. Especially if you it has no warp drive (as stated in the show) , so it has to ambush other ships. I just guessed 2 different races used a similar kind of name for their ships, especially when translated to Galactic.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

If your after submarine warfare. Keep a look out for "the Tomed Incident"

[@dontdrunkimshoot8220]

That t'varo design from enterprise, in my head Canon, is actualy an early 25th century design, and those ships just happened to find themselves in the past becase of some time travel shenanigans, the crew of the enterprise didn't know the difference.

[@TheCsel]

My headcanon is that since the term “submarine” literally does not make sense in space due marine implying seas, that Bird of Prey is used as a replacement term. Something that stays cloaked(submerged)and waits in ambush to emerge and quickly cripple or capture an enemy ship.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Good point. Certainly quicker than "cloaked ship" even so I feel that refers to a specific type.

[@TheCsel]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 yeah, though when we think submarine we probably think of a WW2 type attacking merchants and supply ships like a U Boat. But there were rarer types that were cargo subs, japanese sea plane tender subs, and french cruiser subs. And in modern terms nuclear and ballistic missile subs. So I think Bird of Prey more aligns to the classic ambush types, while something like a warbird or various cloaked battlecruisers are like a french cruiser sub or maybe a modern sub with cruise missiles. Maybe still "birds of prey" in a broad definition sense, but their role exceeds their original definition.

[@BattlestarZenobia]

The Klingon’s ship seems earlier, I find it more likely given the size and scope of the Klingon Empire compared to the smaller Romulan Empire. The Romulans are essentially stealing the idea that leads to the Vas’Hatham as seen in TOS. The Klingons use traded cloaking devices to make them fast attack ships which they continue to develops while the Romulans loose interest in the Vas’Hatham and instead base their military doctrine around larger capital ships. Again this suggests the Vas’Hatham was a borrowed idea and the D’Deridex is their indigenous military philosophy

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

They do move to larger warbirds but that does take time. And they need to build up their economy and infrastructure to be able to do that.

[@BattlestarZenobia]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 which is why the Klingon bird of Prey comes first, they are next to the Vulcans the largest and most powerful power, developing a copycat ship in the 22nd century ships leading to the Vas’Hatham makes sense but every group develops its own school of thought for war. The Klingons own the fast attack ship as they integrate the B’Rel class, with the D series a mirroring if the larger Federation ships before they default to their style. The Federation largely likes mid to large cruisers that can double as science and diplomatic couriers but with just a few adjustments become fast battlecruisers. The Romulans prefer to project power with large warbirds which are actually rather under armed considering their size, I mean the D’Deridex has 6 disrupters and 2 torpedo launchers, while the Galaxy class has 12 phaser banks in the original configuration and 2 burst fire torpedo launchers which is basically the equivalent of 10 normal ones which is pretty interesting

[@tony5318]

Thanks!

[@ericdavid8915]

I love that you are blending the universes.

[@Eulemunin]

Good to see some Kazinti. And even better Hydran ships!

[@artan6966]

First of all. The In Search for Spock paperback book states that the Bird of Prey is a Romulan design that was sold to the Klingons during a technology trade. The Klingons just took the Scout (Bird of Prey) and came up with a cruiser and frigate design. This insulted the Romulans. There is no earlier design of this ship during the NX-01 era or during the TOS era.

[@terranceroff8113]

Nice bit of artwork for a Kzinti frigate/destroyer possibly a light cruiser. Which is a Star Fleet Battles/Starfleet Command ship.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Models by Adam Turner

[@pf6797]

Very interesting insights into a deeper topic than it first appears. Thanks

[@rochedl]

4:45 is this a hint that you feel that SFB ships are in your head cannon? any plans to cover those designs?

[@enterprise1701e]

An interesting assessment. I would add that the Defiant-class, Treaty of Algeron cloaking restrictions aside, might qualify as a Bird-of-Prey. Taking on speed, agility, and firepower as their primary over stealth. But the Defiant-class is a part of the anti-Borg line of ships. Given the Romulans circumstances in the early 25th century, I would think they would reassess using smaller ships that are easier to produce given resource scarcity, for both the remnants of the Star Empire and the nascent Republic.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

The one issue is that the defiant is heavily armoured which is not really seen on other birds of prey.

[@stltrekmodels.4157]

The Klingons invented the Bird of Prey (as in the symbol on the ship). The Romulan Ship was called a Warbird. It was stated that the Romulan ships could be recognized by bearing a Bird of Prey painted on the bottom of their ships in the TOS episode, Balance of Terror.

[@SPatrickRoss]

I thought the T'Liss was called a Bird of Prey because Kirk and company saw it had a huge bird of prey painted on it's belly.

[@BattlestarZenobia]

The Vas’Hatham was nicknamed as such yes

[@stltrekmodels.4157]

2 issues that I personally have with the Romulan ships are 1. The Warbird in (TOS) Balance of Terror was supposed to a submarine in space as the episode was inspired by Das Boot, and Run Silent, Run Deep. The ship at this point in the story does not have definitive scale measurements. We know that it is smaller than the Enterprise, and it simulated the battle tactics by having an immensely strong Plasma energy weapon that is suppose to act as a torpedo from a submarine. Its a two trick pony ship. It has a cloaking system to simulate hiding underwater, and it has a strong hitting weapon that has limited range. They made blueprint/line drawings of it in the early 1970s to make it fit into the Star Trek universe, and to sell to the fans and such and they made the ship 50 meters long. We don't actually know how large or small the original ship was supposed to be other than it was smaller than the Enterprise. So now we either go with the approved line drawings that were not made by the man whom actually made the filming model, or we set it in the bastard scales of the AMT models that never state if they are 1/650 scale like the other 2 ships are specified in. On screen and in fan films the appearance of them change sizes just like the Klingon Bird of Prey ships seem to do because of them not wanting to create new ship models, so they just scale them. my second problem is Enterprise coming up with the 23rd/24th century design that is larger and Next Gen looking to be the fore bearer of the TOS Warbird.

[@emmettbeech5441]

When the Romulans and Klingons sued each other for copyright infringement, the court cases dragged on throughout the 24th century. Armies of lawyers perished on both sides.

[@jyralnadreth4442]

The Warbird concept had its shortfalls as the Romulan Empire found during the Dominion War where they suffered heavy casualties. They needed a more Klingon Bird of Prey Design to fight off hoards of Bug Ships and this leads on to the Mogai Class with its faster firing medium disruptors and high agility

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Oh yeah they need support. Having attached flotillas of scouts and other escorts would help. But only so much

[@stevenewman1393]

🖖😎👍Very cool and very nicely well done and executed and very well informatively explained in every detail way shape and form provided on this format and subject matter on the Bird of Prey as invented and truly designed and built by the Romulans into various types of ships and then later incorporated by the Klingons which originally was a Romulan design in the first place!, And by the way the Klingon bird of Prey in ST3 was originally supposed to be a Romulan ship but the production staff decided against that and thought it was a lot better to make it Klingon instead just thought you should know that, anyways a job very nicely well done by you Sir indeed!👌.

[@matthewkeeling886]

Sorry to resurrect an old comment section but perhaps "Bird of Prey" was what an old enemy (say 20th or 21st century, maybe early 22nd) of both the Klingons AND Romulans called a type of attack ship and the two of them borrowed the terminology separately but from this original source. Starfleet linguistics knows about this (at least on the Klingon side in TOS) and the universal translators pick up on this common origin and translate the terms the same way. We don't see this power because it either was conquered by one or both powers or still shares a border with both, just on the opposite side of the two from the Federation. The differences between the two types then being the result of development along differing lines in the decades since.

[@madrabbit9007]

I think the Romulans went away from the Bird of Prey because the plasma torpedo lost its effectiveness. In TOS it could one shot a Constitution at close range but by TMP, the Enterprise took a shot from Veger that took out three Katingas. I think shields advanced so much that the plasma torpedo became useless and thus the small cruiser killers became pointless and moved on to capital ships that could dominate other capital ships.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Plasma torpedoes were probably still effective in TMP. But what changed was the development of cased plasma torpedoes. And the increase of ships shields and engine power meant that they were easier to evade.

[@carbondragon]

I think the real answer was the Romulans. The ship for the movie was supposed to be Romulan but they changed at the last minute and thus the Klingon bird of prey was born. FASA, the second game that tried to make sense of this said the Klingon Bop was Romulan and sold to the Klingons in exchange for warp drives. The Klingons liked it so much they made 3 versions of it. The stuff from Enterprise broke continuity in a number of ways, and the older Klingon BoP was merely one of the less distressing ones. I'll just point out that TOS indicated the whole "bird of prey" theme was very much a Romulan thing, including painting them like a bird of prey. Which is why the movie really made little sense. And it really muddied the waters when it comes to ship design philosophy. If you want to use FASA ships (and apparently you do) the early romulan ships didn't look like we saw in Enterprise. And they certainly didn't have cloaks.

[@Wedgekree]

Love how you go into how the Klingons and ROmulans had two entirely different design philosopies based purely on their starship combat doctrine.

[@robertsimpson7424]

Didn't the Klingons and Romulans have a tech exchange with Klingon ship halls for Romulan cloaking tech prior to the joint ship design?

[@davidedens6353]

the Vulcans invented the bird of prey. Afterall it was Vulcan information Enterprise was using on threat forces and Soval called the Klingon warships warbirds in the pilot Broken Bow. According to most apocrypha the Klingon based the shape of the hulls of there ships on ocean going predators from Q'onos so it is unlikely the would refer to them as warbirds. This means that the classification is likely from Vulcan antiquity

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Hmm interesting

[@davidedens6353]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 I never really thought about it till you asked

[@shanenolan8252]

I think i read somewhere in beta canon the the 22nd century Klingon bird of prey ( or the one we see in enterprise) was designed by an ancestor of worf . Or he added extra armament. The two twin canon and the ventral heavy cannon turret or whatever it is called

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

It could be an older design so more disruptors were added as time wears on

[@shanenolan8252]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 yes i believe that exactly what happened an older design with more guns added over time . Like a refit.

[@richard1701able]

Great video. Good explanation well done. The Bird of Prey is a concept not as much of a specific ship. In this case Bird = Ship, Of Prey = to attack, essentially Attack Ship. I know the designs in your video have wings that make them look more like a bird. However I a mention should be given to the best Bird of Prey via-à-vis Attack Ship, the Defiant Class which is design to do one thing. Find and kill the enemy. It's a Bird of Prey.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

A heavy bird of prey. Maybe

[@neganrex5693]

I was wondering are the larger Klingon birds of pray as large as a Klingon D-7 battle curser? I think it would make a nice replacement for the ageing D-7 classic but I hope the D-7 keeps popping up in the movies. I never get sick of seeing them.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

If you mean the kvort then potentially yes. They can range anywhere between 230-350m

[@neganrex5693]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 Think you and great video.

[@thomasjenkins5727]

The Romulans probably classify all ships as some variety of Bird. Gunboats are Birds of Prey. Warships are Warbirds. Civilian ships are Birds of Duty or some such. Government ships are Imperial Birds, or some such, and so on. For the Klingons, the Bird of Prey was a name used for an old frigate, and when they started copying the Romulan stealth craft, they saw no problem using the same name, because they had, by some coincidence, already used it once before. That also led to the Klingons using the term more flexibly than the Romulans, because it wasn't a ship classification for them, it was a style.

[@elcowabungahe-man6156]

I believe the Romulans created the Bird of Prey and the Klingon saw it and made a version of their own

[@merafirewing6591]

I wonder what if the Klingon Bird of Prey was used in a Wolfpack Tactic against the Dominion Battleship?

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

You could. But you'd do little more than annoy it.

[@merafirewing6591]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 Would be worth just to keep harassing it, but be cool to see Birds of Prey attacking a Dominion Supply Convoy.

[@Nejiranu]

Personally, I don't really mind who invented it. It's sort of like asking who invented the battleship. What matters more to me is who perfects the design. That honor, in my mind at least, goes to the Romulans. While a lot of their 24th and 25th century designs are called warbirds, classes like the Valdore, and the Faeht(I think, going from memory here, cause I'm not opening up STO to check) act very much like their 23rd century predecessors, as ambush predators. Maybe not meant to kill in a single blow anymore thanks to how absurd shield tech gets, but using stealth and surprise to cripple the enemy before they know the fight has begun.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Being British I have a somewhat different perspective. Being the first matters. But we do agree on the romulans perfecting it.

[@elcowabungahe-man6156]

Warbirds love them in my youth i got in my car bumper a sticker that saids my other vehicle is a Romulan Warbird

[@TimothyChapman]

Q: "Who invented the bird of prey?" A: God. But man named it then created a fictional ship with the same name.

[@Optimistprime.]

It's almost as if your frigate looks "birdish" or bird like, it gets the unofficial name of bird of prey. Especially when referring to the Romulans and Klingons.

[@davebignell773]

So what is the ship 5 mins in being attacked by the Romulan frigate? An Earth ship from the war? The style reminds me of some of the Mirak/Kziniti ships from Starfleet Battles.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

It's a kzinti ship

[@chrissonofpear1384]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 Very nice - did you help with the art for that one? And some nice Hydran ships too (a race I speculate were fully absorbed by the Klingons by the early 24th century)

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

@@chrissonofpear1384 the ship models are by Adam Turner. he does a lot of SFB type ships

[@Sephiroth144]

Raptors: Are we a joke to you?

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

In confident that's an exclusively klingon design.

[@Sephiroth144]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 Oh, I meant literal Raptors, like Hawks and Owls and such

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

@@Sephiroth144 makes me think. Why are the no Owl based ships?

[@Sephiroth144]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 ~looks at the original Romulan BoP from TOS~ Are you sure...? Actually, let me expand on that; wide, stubby body, floats around when most things can't see, run by a rather wisen commander- not gonna lie, thinking more "Owl" than "Hawk". ("How many plasma torpedoes does it take to get the Human-filled center of a Tootsie Asteroid...?")

[@Todd.P]

ANSWER: The nation who paints a bird of prey on the underside of their ships. Which nation was that? The Romulan Empire!

[@adrianjorgensen3750]

Klingons had the bird of prey in Enterprise. We don’t talk about Enterprise.

[@Cauin450]

Venom Geek Media 98. Where are the deflectors on Klingon & Romulan ships?

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

On the klingon it's around the edge of the torpedo launcher. On romulan ships I would guess its hidden behind a panel.

[@jeffs.4124]

Neither, Kirk was told that you would know a romulan starship when you see it, they have a gaint bird of prey on their hull.

[@donovanbradford8231]

A great video but given how far back both designs go I can't help but wonder, while we know both Klingons and Romulans did share and swap tech I feel the answer is this a case of parallel thought. We do see this plenty of times in the series given a real world answer such as all bad guys used disruptors while good guys used phasers. But as we get more through both Enterprise and TOS you clearly see parallel thought. In Enterprise we see Vulcan, Andorian, Telerit, and Earth using phasers. Now Earth got phasers from Vulcans but why do the Andorians and Telerits use them also given they are enemies answer parallel thought the tech might be different but result is the same. We see the same in TOS, Klingons, Romulans, Gorn, and Armenians all used disruptors yet some of these races aren't neighbors to each other and in the case of Armenias 6 they don't even have intergalactic space travel yet. So it is possible that both Romulans and Klingons both came up with Bird of Prey designs they just ended up using them for different purposes one race used them as a capital ship while the other used it in a support role.

[@thomasstill2366]

Perhaps romulans called it a raptor instead of bird of prey.

[@gavinjoth5347]

I found it interesting you only used FASA Romulan ships in your beta canon ship overheads, yet you use Star Fleet Battles ships in many of your artwork shots. Star Fleet Battles labelled the T'Liss the 'Warbird' (despite Lt.Stiles all but calling it a bird of prey as he describes the paintwork of typical Romulan warships) and Kirk never calls it a Bird of Prey. It would take until STNW before Pike calls it such, despite the fact there is no possible way he would know this, unless this is known in his original timeline). My understanding is that Star Fleet Battles got the name from the show itself, which had labelled the original Romulan ship a Warbird in either show sketches or early show promotion work in publications. I contend that this ship was always the intended original Warbird, and the Bird of Prey was a light Romulan ship given to the Klingons with a cloaking device as the design was considered a dead end. The Klingons took it and repurposed it, first as a heavy frigate, and later developed it into more of a scoutship in the B'Rel.

[@Sephiroth144]

Around 14:46- yeah baby!

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Next week...

[@Sephiroth144]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 I apologize in advance for the sound your dogs will hear next week then.

[@LordMelbury1953]

Ive put acall onto my friends in the Klingon and Romulan Empires, Lets see what they each will will tell us. 🚀

[@ThatSlowTypingGuy]

Romulans were the first on screen. It's that simple. Retcons are always secondary.

[@philly83]

It's been a long road, getting from there to here.

[@ravenmoon5111]

I hate the entire idea of the Klingons having a Bird of Prey or the cloak. These are Romulan IP's as it were and it was only do to Nimoy wanting to replace Romulans with Klingons in Star Trek 3 that this ever happened. The Klingon D7 design base was their classic look and being given a Romulan identity takes away from both of their unique cultural flare

[@vallettapetracyneran8587]

I would call the 22nd century Klingon Bird of Prey in my own head is an actual stop gap. It makes good use of Fire power amd without the cloaking device i see it as a raider. It is designed to get in close and fast kill hard. At first the Klingons would find the cloak dishonorable. So this is a prefect unit to fit in the Bird of prey role.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Klingons don't get the cloak until the 2280s but yeah they were initially used on BOP for recon

[@brooksroth345]

A simple explanation is that both races have predator birds on their worlds. These birds exlempify the hunter ethos.

[@jhallam2011]

Interesting video

[@Assman45ACP69]

What's the federation's answer to the bird of prey? The Defiant?

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Kinda more happening on the same concept.

[@davidponseigo8811]

As long as the ship looks cool I really don't care who created the first, I love all Bird of Prey !

[@eldo4rent]

I read somewhere (maybe out my ass) that the romulans stole federation ship designs and the TOS bird of prey is a federation design modified with romulan tech. Does anybody have any idea where I got this idea? Maybe it was just a fever dream, but you have to admit that it looks like its made of federation ship parts.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

I've heard that and it's used as a ret-con to explain the more anonymous look. I think its more of an instance of convergent evolution

[@chrissonofpear1384]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 It was a cut line from the script I believe, when the Outpost commander speculates some stolen design touches were used. The nacelles and overall body do kind of suggest that, so maybe some espionage of Federation shipyards had occurred? Still, they were likely headed in that direction anyway. Definitely more bulked up than a T'Varo though (or V-3, as I call it, in FASA terms)

[@lucasbachmann]

Enterprise did so much damage to continuity.

[@DFuxaPlays]

I think a better question - who did it better?

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Depends on the context of the time...

[@davidreeves4556]

Is it called a bird of prey in TOS?

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Certainly called that in apocrypha. But that's a good point. Perhaps it wasn't until later on

[@davidreeves4556]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 in that case what was the first use do we think? Are the Romulan ships not always “warbirds”?

[@chrissonofpear1384]

@@davidreeves4556 I'm not sure if Starfleet Battles actually invented the warbird name, in fact (alongside Warp Eagle, Condor dreadnought and other names?) By TNG it had been canonized, if so. Possibly different sources were using different names.

[@Rocketsong]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 Never identified as such in TOS. The first "in print" usage that I know of was the 1975 AMT ship model.

[@terranceroff8113]

T'iss is more of a light warbird..

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Warbirds aren't really a thing until the 24th century.

[@pixelforge4858]

interesting

[@randyswindle7099]

The Romulans, the Klingon version is just a byproduct of lazy script writing

[@artonline01]

You sound like Milo Yiannopoulos but talking about something boring.

[@comentedonakeyboard]

It vos invented in Russia!

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

By a little old lady

[@comentedonakeyboard]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 in St Petersburg, or Leningrad, or Lenongrad, or howevergrad