Why The Excelsior Was a Game Changer!

this week i take a detailed look at the iconic and fan favorite excelsior class. delving into its significance and importance both in universe and behind the scenes. looking at its various features and technologies. and comparing it to its contemporaries.
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[@resurrectedstarships]

Great analysis - I agree with pretty much everything here and made me consider some new things! On disagreements - nah I don't think we have disagreements about Trek tech and canon - just parallel views. I bet someone already mentioned that in the FASA lore the 'transwarp drive' are speeds over warp 10 in the old warps scale - like 12-14 top speed; and the 1701-A also got this refit - all of which is 'implied' by Scotty - especially his dismay in ST3 when they told him there would be 'no Enterprise refit' - so then most ships in the lost era would have this version of the transwarp drive. And then Ent-D uses something else entirely 'ultra warp'. Transwarp as technobable was poorly appropriated in TNG era LOL.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

glad you liked the video. there is a lot of contradictory information on transwarp drive. some say it failed, others say it went on to become normal warp drive. For me it was something unique which i explain in "the great experiment" basically warping space time ahead of the ship to slow time down, but this didn't change the passage of time on the ship, so the crew would effectively age faster when using the transwarp drive. so it became un-viable.

[@josiahclinch6219]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 what RS SAID he was talking about the 1st Gen of D-7s the class that came out around 2245 won't take a tos era Conine but i agree the TMP ones would give Starfleet a run for it's Credits i believe that why the Enterprise was refitted to a mark two.

[@garyhill2740]

Love the video. Would love to hear your thoughts on the USS Ingram NCC-2001 featured in the collector's edition blueprint set.

[@philly83]

The cloaking device, that comes the next Tuesday.

[@SR-71_blackbird]

The deflector dish comes in next Tuesday as well

[@joe9739]

Don't tell me......Tuesday?

[@harryzimmerman7991]

Was it this Tuesday or next? Because we just have the cloaking device, well parts if it anyway, the deflector dish, will be in the following Tuesday🤞🖖🙏

[@michaelaldredge-greenwell1692]

Giggles

[@imperiumcommentingnetwork4677]

The Shields? You guessed it, next Tuesday

[@occultatumquaestio5226]

I wholeheartedly agree. The Excelsior is indeed a game changer and yeah it is basically the Sovreign of the 23rd Century. Designed by a more military minded Starfleet, it has significantly superior speed, scanning, & durability and comparable firepower & maneuverability to any of its contemporaries for around 50 years. As I said in the "Great Experiment" video, similar to a Nimitz supercarrier. It definitely contributed to the 24th century pax period. Also, I like the Excelsior cloaking device theory.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

equally its like dreadnought. a ship that is well armed, reasonably tough, and goes at a decent clip.

[@nunya3163]

I would argue that the Sovereign is the 24th century Excelsior.

[@TheLAGopher]

This may have something to do with Starfleet recognizing that the Organians were not enforcing the Organian peace treaty in the face of multiple Klingon violations in the years between ST:TMP and ST II. The mass fielding of the K'Tinga class to match the refitted Constitution class, may have convinced Starfleet Command that a war was coming. The Excelsior seems to have been built to militarize the best traits of the Constitution class by making them bigger and more robust.

[@Phil-D83]

The Lakota refit in ds9 was awesome. Kind of like refitting the us iowa class battleships in the 1980s.

[@sgt_s4und3r54]

You mean the Enterprise B? Lakota was a refit because they couldn't get the added bits off the Excelsior model after Star Trek Generations. Though I do agree that it was awesome design and look.

[@Phil-D83]

@@sgt_s4und3r54 the effect reasons aside, the refit made it a comparably modern ship

[@TheWoblinGoblin]

That's a really interesting analogy

[@Phil-D83]

@@TheWoblinGoblin you take a good design and bring it into modern times. Keep the good features and upgrade many other things

[@Phil-D83]

Fyi video; kzbin.info/www/bejne/imHRoaWXa6eng9k

[@SierraThunder]

The Enterprise-B secondary hull was designed that way by the studio to accommodate the damage from the Nexus ribbon without actually doing damage to the original Excelsior model as they only had the one.

[@quazz79]

and then they found they couldn't remove it without damaging the original model sooooooo....

[@mikewilson858]

Interesting. Makes sense, it’s funny how much people talk about these cosmetic changes when they are often made for budget reasons or some practical filming reason. Really preferred the cleaner silhouette of the original design

[@Rick_Cleland]

@@quazz79 Yeah, used the wrong kind of glue and couldn't get it off.

[@sdswood3457]

Came here to say this as well lol

[@LgiovanniF]

Yeah people around the nineties were obsessed with rounded edges.

[@jhallam2011]

My God that’s a big ship…. Leonard McCoy, Undiscovered Country.

[@nunya3163]

"Not so big as her Captain." There really should have been a series with Sulu and Excelsior.

[@joeswanson733]

it would've been funny if sulu poached all the senior officers off the enterprise to go with sulu insetad of kirk . so spock, chekov, uhura, mccoy, scotty all go to the excelsior. :D

[@jhallam2011]

@@joeswanson733 yes!

[@Spector-yj5hk]

I played the Playstation 2 game the shattered universe was alternate universe that show cased the excelsior

[@TheLAGopher]

@@nunya3163 I would have been funny to have Captain Sulu have to deal with an Admiral Styles, who was still sore that Sulu was part of the "Steal The Enterprise" Incident where Scotty disabled the Excelsior under Styles command.

[@ChairmanMo]

Having watched this again, I think that the Excelsior was a game changer because it took so long for everyone else to come up with a counter for it. In the race to build ships that are of that size the Excelsior won hands down. The fact that the ship is still a good and capable until the end of the Dominion War is a testament to its design.

[@joelbilly1355]

Yeah in that period it had the power of a battleship but could operate like a cruiser and they could mass produce it.

[@barrybend7189]

STO has the Excelsior be eternal. It's one of the few transwarp ships with an improved Quantum Slipstream drive.

[@crysisrevelation6132]

You know, that makes me think of how HMS Dreadnought changed the way we built warships in the lead up to World War One. The Excelsior was effectively the Dreadnought of Star Trek.

[@canisblack]

I've always felt like the Sovereign was the successor/replacement for the Excelsior class in-universe.

[@joeswanson733]

well that means starfleet really likes to use a particular class until it rusts apart or it really lacks creativity since it relies on one class for too long. that's just my take on this. you would think the sovereign class is the replacement for the last gen heavy cruiser starflee fielded so maybe ambassador class. I wouldn't compare the svoereign to the galaxy class because they're two different ships classes. galaxy class isn't even a heavy cruiser. or at least it doesn't seem that way

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Yeah the two have far more in common with each other than they do the Connie and galaxy.

[@canisblack]

@@joeswanson733 The Ambassador always felt like a prototype for the Galaxy. Like the ships feel they had a similar design intent/were designed for similar roles. And it does kind of fit as the Excelsior was designed as a military ship originally while the Ambassador feels like it was intended to be more of a show piece/ambassadorial ship (hence the name) in much the same way the Galaxy actually was. While they could certainly fill a military roll similar to that the Excelsior was built to fill, that was not what they were intended or designed to do.

[@randallsanchez3161]

@@joeswanson733 You don't scrap ship hulls unless they're obsolete. Large hulls had plenty of space for new tech. As far as the shapes go they really didn't impact the function except as to how much you can pack into it. Compare that to modern day Navy ships. The shape and size has more to do with the tech being laid over it such as new radar systems. The follow up ships in the Federation just got bigger with the exception of the Defiant class which was a glass cannon. The Lakota which was decades old still put up a huge fight against the most modern combat dedicated escort ship of the century. Note about the shuttlebay. By this period, shuttles were being used less and less as transporter tech had been highly refined at this point. There wasn't as much need for a shuttle bay anymore. You rarely saw them in use except for long range transportation.

[@laveroflove]

@@randallsanchez3161 You could also see Shuttles as more as picket/scout ships in a system. They would make it so you can see in planet shadows and to increase the range of your scanning bubble. While you could use unmanned probes, they aren't as great as having Mark 1 eyeballs out keeping a watch, plus a shuttle crew would be able to tell if they are being hacked/spoofed.

[@baalzamon3593]

My favorite ship. She wasn't originally built to be a flagship, but became one after proving herself. She carried the Federation through the Klingon and Romulan wars. She was broadly used by Admirals during TNG era. She was refit as a battlship during the Dominion War. There's never been a TV series with a hero ship Excelsior making it more likely to get additional screen time. Finally, you get to say "EXCELSIOR!!!" when talking about it

[@mattbrown817]

There was a reason that Admirals often choose utilize the Excelsior class as their "personal requestions" when traveling to the front lines of conflict. The only thing I would change is the verbiage of Phaser Turret to Phaser Emitter as they are two separate weapons. Phaser Turrets are literally turrets with a 360' range of fire, and are slightly less powerful than the phaser emitter(s); sacrificing power for area of effect. The Phaser Emitter that generates either the pulse or the stream generally cover an area of 280' but have more bite than the turret. Realistically they should both be capable of the same power level but this information is from B cannon onwards because sadly, we do not have phasers.

[@harry-thepug76]

I love star trek like any other fan. Dude, you do realise it's not real?! It's a T.V series!!

[@TheWoblinGoblin]

There could be many, many other factors like speed, room for staff, battlefield role... For my two cents, Starfleet has a category of major capital ships (like battleship/battlecruiser fleets in the first half of the 20th century) with Excelsior's being the smallest of those, followed up by ambassadors, galaxys and then sovereigns. Depending on fleet size and era Excelsiors are just the right size to serve as fleet flagships while not taking away space, resources and flexibility away from the frontline heavy hitters

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

@@TheWoblinGoblin yeah it's why the excelsior was in service so long. Striking a good balance between speed firepower and defenses. Means that it never found itself at too much of a disadvantage.

[@trazyntheinfinite9895]

You got your techno babble mixed up. 1.) The Phaser (and any other energy weapon in trek) always is emmited by an emitter. Phasers are organized into Banks for fire control and general management. The build type of the phaser is not relevant for this term. 2.) We generally differentiate between gimbal mounted Phaser emitters, found on most pre TNG designs. That is what the conny and Excelsior mount. They sure as fck don't do 360° shooting. The power of these phasers is dependent on the general technological sophistication of the emitter system. The term gimbal is also only half right because final target adjustment is done via energy fields lensing the beam where it needs to go. You can observe this in most handphasers, where the beams flight path has little to do with where the emitter is pointing. These might fire beams or pulses depending on construction. 3.) Phaser Arrays, found on most post TNG ships are large strips of interconnected emmitters. Each emitter can generate its own charge, hold it, hold the charge handed to it by another emmitter next to it and in turn hand that charge over to the next emitter until 2 charges meet at the discharge point where energy fields will lense it towards its target. The advantage is that the Firing Control can divide an Array into differently sized sections and have multiple Discharges at specific strength towards different targets. Or have 2 charges combined run the full length of the array, resulting in lots of oomph. The crew can customize these a lot, length if charge, powersetting etc... Downside is that the whole setup is very complex and needs serious cooling.

[@TheDetailsMatter]

I believe the term for the phaser strips on TNG ships is "collimator." The only places I've seen actual turrets in use for phasers are in the god-awful reboot movies, Enterprise, and Discovery (the alternate universe franchises). Ships of the TOS era used fixed-mount phaser cannons arranged in banks of two or three distributed around the saucer behind large circular gun ports (distinct from windows which were small and square). The banks were placed to cover 90° firing arcs at port, starboard, and fore positions. (None rear-facing to avoid the possibility of damaging the warp pylons.)

[@vulpixgrant]

I've always felt the Excelsior was the best realistic sci-fi ship that Star Trek ever had. Slender but still has heft and just looks like it could take anything the galaxy threw at it. I love that sources stated the hull was far overbuilt to accommodate the Trans Warp Drive, making the skeleton of these ships incredibly strong even by 24th Century designs. That was one of the explanations why Admirals always seemed to ride Excelsior's in TNG era. The fact the Sovereign looks very much like a modernized adaptation of the Excelsiors lines I felt was homage to how they both were designed for war. Your expiation about the Cloke and the Excelsior Refits is awesome, it's the first 'New' Theories I've seen about the old girl in many years that really make sense! Well done video.

[@alanmike6883]

Definitely one of the best ships of the Federation. Strong. Reliable, long life. A good platform for peace and war. A guilty pleasure. Plus the bulky neck fixed a underlined weakness in designs since during that time, federation ships had no Armour

[@1zeisele]

No guilt, just pleasure.

[@alanmike6883]

@@1zeisele Indeed. And when upgraded with ablative Armour.. A absolute beast

[@davfree9732]

I never liked the neck, but the engineering hull was starting to push in a good direction that finally came to realisation in the Sovereign hulls design. Still, no argument it was a ship that propped up Starfleets efforts in the lore.

[@Kieselmeister]

@A dudes thoughts literally how the enterprise refit is crippled in ST:2 wrath of Khan... A raking shot to the neck torpedo room where the refit warp core housing passes directly between the torpedo launch tubes protected only by the exterior hull and it's own shielding. The refit replaced the old front-to-back warp core buried deep in the secondary hull with a new transverse design which could only fit in the much more vulnerable neck. (The original constitution design had enough redundancy between the saucer and secondary hull to at least remain semi-functional so long as the neck wasn't severed completely, but the refit warp core also took up the space formerly occupied by the secondary fusion powerplant in the saucer section, which meant the impulse drive and phaser batteries had no backup power in the event that the warp core was offline.)

[@glennlaroche1524]

A couple of thoughts: First, the real-world reason for the bulges on the engineering hull of the Enterprise -B was so they could show hull damage w/out damaging the body of the Excelsior model----ironically, the model-makers did too good a job, and the model was damaged when they tried to remove them---this is the reason a digital Excelsior model was built for DS9 (or one of the reasons, anyway) Second, the additional "impulse" engines on the B were originally intended to be warp-speed enhancers, according to the designer--the designer identifies them as such in an interview w Trekyards, I think. This is why they line right up with the main warp nacelles---as impulse engines, they would pretty much blast right back into the Bussards. They might even have had warp-sustainer capabilities during saucer separation maneuvers---not totally sure about that, tho. Anyway, another great episode, Venom! I was always a huge fan of the Excelsior design myself, and tbh saw no good reason for the refit.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Interesting we don't see warp enhancers again. So it's quite an unusual design feature. Didn't know that was why they kept the refit model.

[@JeanLucCaptain]

a practical reason is extra storage space. those could easily be Fuel or Water tanks or whatever the Replicator uses.

[@That80sGuy1972]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 I think the "warp enhancers" were why "transwarp", as well as that, were phased out... and "transwarp" was redefined in later canon. TOS and TNG have different warp scales. TOS has a speed of the Warp Factor cubed as how many times light speed it is. TNG changed that drastically with a really odd scale that eventually made Warp Factor 10 infinite speed. Also, after the TOS era, have warp-speed ships ever "accidentally" entered any kind of wormhole by going warp speed? Never heard of it happening after that one movie? Neither have I. I think the "warp enhancers" became part of the standard design, thus no longer "warp enhancers" but just part of the warp drive and thus normalized with the new (post-TOS) scale. Just food for thought, though.

[@adamlytle2615]

I like that warp enhancer idea - I had heard that the original concept art for the modifications had those added elements as extra shuttle bays, but the model builders misinterpreted and made them extra engines. God knows the Excelsior could use a shuttle bay or two on the saucer - but these would have the same issue as the impulse engines: very awkward to have to pilot a shuttle out of the bay and immediately have to fly around the warp nacelle.

[@90lancaster]

If they were only designed to use when separated then their placement wouldn't mater otherwise. I think That the ship can separate has come up before even if it's in novel. Though I might even have been mentioned on that Voyager Episode (or it's novelisation at least).

[@this.is.a.username]

When I see those two ships next to each other I just think of the difference between a frigate or even a schooner and a ship of the line in the age of sail. Connie looks like she soars through space, while the Excelsior just bulldozes through. I love that ship design so much.

[@VME-Brad]

The Excelsior class was kind of like the B-52. They found a frame that was incredibly effective at it's job, so decided to keep upgrading the internals to keep it modern, since nothing else they designed was as good at it's job. Yes, that's basically what happened with the B-52 (plus it's so good a bomber that we're disallowed by treaty to make new airframes of the class, meaning we have to keep the ones we have flying)

[@paWikangbaHi]

"Fly her apart then!" - The most badass command in Starfleet history. Captain Sulu made the Excelsior legendary.

[@geraldward5318]

Excellent video analysis! I do like the Excelsior class! Its sheer mass and upgrades over the connie make it formidable! I dont think its got as clean a lines as the connies and proportionally from some angles it looks a little odd but that being said it would be the marker going forward for 100 years on what a front line federation ship would encompass.

[@matthewbardos4424]

The launch, and apparent mass production of this class was likely a significant factor in forcing the Klingons into the Khitomer Accords. The Klingons knew that an alliance with the Romulans was impossible, and given their economic situation, there was no way they could maintain a fleet strong enough to contend with both the Federation and the Romulans at the same time. Making friends with the Federation was basically their only choice.

[@crownprincesebastianjohano7069]

This is actually a good point. The Ktinga was their frontline ship at the time, and if things more or less held up like TOS, the refit Constitution Class was still quite superior (with the Enterprise surviving the V'Ger weapon when the Ktingas did not) 1-on-1. And now this even more powerful ship comes along, ready for mass production. The Klingons could not possibly hope to keep up. In plane parlance, I think the Constitution Class was not unlike the F-4 Phantom, already superior to the Klingon D7/MiG-19. But then the Klingons come out with the Ktinga/MiG-21 to even the playing field some, only to see the Federation field the Excelsior Class/F-15...

[@matthewbardos4424]

@@crownprincesebastianjohano7069 exactly.

[@joeswanson733]

@@crownprincesebastianjohano7069 and yet somehow in that star trek TNG episode yesterdays enterprise the federation was losing the war with the klingons like wtf. that would be like the US losing a conventional war agains he sovies in the 1980s.

[@crownprincesebastianjohano7069]

@@joeswanson733 Very true! Never made much sense. But, so much can go wrong when the fighting actually starts. Look at how the Union botched things in the first two years of the American Civil War despite massive superiority. Or the Russians now. And the Klingons and Federation are much more equally matched than my two examples. I should think the Federation must have utterly botched the first years of the war. Or perhaps the Klingons beat the Federation to developing that 5th Generation (NX Class/G1, Daedelus, D-5/G2, Constitution Class, D-7, Ktinga/G3, Excelsior/G4, Galaxy, Vorcha, D'Deridex/G5) capital ships by fielding the Vorcha Class in numbers well before the Galaxy and Nebula Classes were in service.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

yeah the klingons were trying to make a counter but they were just too far behind technologically. they couldn't just brute force the problem this time round.

[@crimsonninja6995]

3:21 I don't know if you meant to say it this way, but you're very correct. The original designer for the Excelsior started the design with the question "What would the Enterprise look like if it were designed by the Japanese?"

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Yes it's very much from that era of tech giant Japan.

[@JustinStrife]

I'd like to think that the Japanese could have made it look better.

[@kdrapertrucker]

Actually Enterprise was designed by Matt Jaffries, Roddenberry told Jeffries what he didn't want to see. (Rockets, fins, etc) Jeffries had an Aerospace background and had press material from the all the major manufacturers of air and space craft to draw from.

[@nathanielmeade5731]

One of the prettiest ships ever designed for a Science Fiction setting

[@casbot71]

It (and the Miranda class) just have _perfect proportions_ that "work", the lines seem to flow. It's balanced.

[@johanwittens7712]

Totally agree. The excelsior and the intrepid are the prettiest ships in trek for me. Far, FAR nicer than those ugly abominations in modern trek.

[@joeswanson733]

the excelsior is not the prettiest ship in sci fi...that would be the refi constitution class ..at least to me. that is .

[@miamijules2149]

She’s a beautiful ship; took some getting used to but yes sir, agreed; and that Lakota after the Dominion refit.... yes please.

[@miamijules2149]

@@johanwittens7712 Lolol get ya but modern Trek isn’t Trek. 🤣😃

[@antwan1357]

When I was a kid , I always wanted to see a Captain Sulu series after reading a comic where he is chatting with Captain Kirk via ship to ship before warping away. I would never get to see an alternative non enterprise ship until Voyager . It would have been really great to see the classic Excelsior doing the Voyager series as time tested classic.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Aye such a missed opportunity.

[@MediumRareOpinions]

Similarly I would have liked to see a short series following the Enterprise C That feels like the "lost" era of Trek we've never explored

[@antwan1357]

@@MediumRareOpinions if I could give your reply a thousand likes i would . Love your comment.

[@pike100]

Sulu: "... then fly it apart!"

[@casbot71]

A refit that would have solved the hanger/shuttlebay issue would have been to extend the secondary hull at its thickest point all the way back, instead of having it only go a third of the length before curving up. That would have added a _lot_ of internal space, it could basically become a carrier. It could be considered a minor refit! A 3D analysis of how much extra volume that would create would be interesting.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Yeah the ventral Bay does have a large capacity. And extending it would be a good idea.

[@Tirak117]

I had never thought about the Excelsior having that 1980s Japanese asthetic, but now that you mention it, I can't unsee it, that's a really good observation.

[@TheRiskyBrothers]

I definitely get some HMS Hood vibes from the Excelsior class. Able to outrun anything it can't outfight and vice/versa, but there isn't much that can outrun or outfight them in the first place. Honestly sad we never really got to see an Excelsior as the main hero ship of a series/movie.

[@trazyntheinfinite9895]

Eye its criminal we never got a sulu series. Ds9 only used the Excelsior as a jobber.

[@TheRiskyBrothers]

@@trazyntheinfinite9895 Look, Wolf 359 was a tough time for everyone lol

[@bairdrew]

@@trazyntheinfinite9895 Not really. I mean, there's the Lakota, but you wouldn't expect a test ship for new weapons systems with a very green crew and captain to stand up to Defiant. And, I mean...the Borg. But did you see the nonsense USS Hood got up to? She was throwing hands at the very forefront of the Dominion War, fighting fights that Nebulas and Galaxys didn't dare get in to, and was consistently the only ship that wasn't explicitly a hero-ship (Defiant, Rotaran) to be in that position and survive - indeed even the battle that killed the first Defiant didn't kill her. And Hood was hardly a new ship herself - she's an older Excelsior (part of a tranche of the ships that were seemingly explicitly names after historical battlecruisers), which makes me wonder that maybe the UFP intentionally undergunned their ships between Khitomer and at least Wolf 359.

[@ThatEnglishGent]

Just a quick correction. The K'tinga has two torpedo launchers. Remember the beginning of TMP when the last K'tinga is fleeing it fires one more Torp back from it's aft at the ball of energy thingy before it's inevitable demise.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

true but it can only really bring one to bear at any given time.

[@leiderdawg]

This is the first analysis of the Excelsior-class that convinced me of its purpose and beauty. Now I understand why it's lasted over a century in service.

[@barrybend7189]

9:38 one thing I will note the entire rear section could be one large hanger deck just underneath the bay. As there's enough room to have a hanger and maintenance bay for the shuttles.

[@samharper4289]

Love the Excelsior, but my favorite has always been the Enterprise refit! 😉

[@Revan2908]

Nice to see some love & respect for the _Excelsior_ class.

[@shanenolan8252]

Cheers. One thing i believe 23rd century katinga had two torpedoe tubes. ( motion picture, one front one aft ) still half the fire power in torpedoes, and around 25 percent of phasers

[@kristianfletcher5497]

Excelsior and Miranda both fabulous designs that where Starfleet's backbone. But the numbers that UFP was able to produce was what also separate from other powers as well

[@SilverFox-qr1ci]

Excelsior may be bigger faster, more powerful, but the Constitution refit is way sexier.

[@JustinStrife]

Facts by someone who isn't drunk.

[@hemaccabe4292]

The Klingon D-7 has a second rear firing torpedo launcher depicted in the TMP.

[@miamijules2149]

Dude you’re right!! Just saw that yesterday actually.... nice catch; yeah, nice.

[@AtomicVisionary]

Great video, and I've personally always preferred a more militarized Starfleet and Federation in general.

[@jonmcgee6987]

It is a good ship and design. I could never really get used to it because of the ship's look. It took me a few years to get used to the Galaxy class's design. Like many older fans, I watched TNG when it first came out. I also saw the first 2 movies before that. I guess I just love the look of the Constitution refit more than any other ship design in Star Trek. However it will never beat out the space Battleship Yamato. That was the first ship in Sci-fi/anime I ever saw.

[@westower7898]

I agree. Grew up on the Original Series in syndication, then carried that mystique over into the Movie Era with the refits. But Star Blazers, and later watched Yamato subbed.

[@grimmfandango832]

I think the elegance of Japan in relation to the Excelsior Is minimalism which as a branch of zen Buddhism basically less can be more if applied correctly nice video tho, I approve

[@grimmfandango832]

for instance, Romulans are zen too, less is more, we esp with the old bop. in the other hand the ddiridrx was more with less, same with hl the galaxy class. Extremely inefficient pound for pound imo

[@grimmfandango832]

I think the elegance of Japan in relation to the Excelsior Is minimalism which as a branch of zen Buddhism basically less can be more if applied correctly nice video tho

[@grimmfandango832]

yeah ktinga would lose, flashback proves that, kang was trigger happy but he backed off

[@rmcdudmk212]

The Excelsior refit is one of my all time favorite ships in the Trek universe

[@dr.x4050]

For a long time, I always thought trans-warp was just anything over warp 8 and uses a new calculation for speed instead of light speed = warp ^ 3. The great experiment was just checking if speed over warp 8 worked with a full manned crew because I'm sure many people tested speed over warp 8 thousands of times before making a full-size commissioned starship. I think The Excelessor class did warp 9 after running in full active duty. If a full-sized starship maintaining warp 9 was a great experiment, then the "great experiment" should have been a success instead of a failure. This got me confused when the Galaxy-class did not trans-warp for some dumb reason but did have a new warp-speed calculation. I must be missing something. my 2 cents. The Excelsior did seem a lot more durable since all the Constitution-class ships at the time were all falling apart and getting decommissioned. The Constitution was revolutionary when it first came out, so this makes me think the pre-Consitution ships were extremely fragile. EDIT: From what little I gather, a handful of Constitution-class decimated the Klingon fleet at Axinar. A combination of 4 torpedo bays, faster warp, phasors, photons that can hit ships at warp speed, able to maneuver at warp speed, shields that worked & easily absorbed disruptors make a front-end assault against the D7s possible and fairly easy. if this is true, then the Constitution is at least as much a game-changer as the Excelsior. (I try to keep Constitution-class ship enthusiasm down in this Excelsior thread).

[@barrybend7189]

The great experiment was a partial success. After the excelsior class was done with the initial teething problems the warp scale was rescaled to account for the new knowledge of warp mechanics. Trans warp was used for Borg tech because it does what the original experiment was proposed to do.

[@pike100]

Please don't hold back on your enthusiasm for the Connies just because we are in an Excelsior thread! 😂

[@Shadow200001]

the bulges on the Lakota version are due to the deflector technology, IE it's deflector system was given a massive upgrade. And required more area and space. Hence the buldges.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Why? What was wrong with the original?

[@Shadow200001]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 It was an upgraded deflector system, I can't actually find the entry now that details it so I have to call into doubt my statement now. Other than In less than a decade, the Excelsior design underwent a second, more significant overhaul, as introduced with the launch of the USS Enterprise-B. While remaining true to the original design, this new configuration added several modifications to the basic hull, including the addition of a second pair of impulse engines, an expanded scoop surrounding the deflector dish, and the addition and removal of a number of fins located on the saucer and nacelles. But I do like your idea of the cloaking device, but in the TOS it was small enough to fit on a table, but was hooked up to the deflector if I recall. Though in my own head cannon I saw the bulges as more sensor domes. After all more powerful the sensors, the farther you can see the enemy from and plan accordingly, and perhaps detect things like ionized plasma from engines on cloaked ships.

[@MrSpike320]

The Sovereign class will always be my favorite, but the Excelsior is a close second. Like you said, the sleekness and aerodynamical design is what I love about it. Apparently, Starfleet does as well since Picard takes place in 2400 and they're still using Excelsior classes.

[@travisdouglass5459]

Greetings, my name is Travis., from Morrisville, VT. Just wanted to say I really liked your presentation. I'm a huge fan of the Enterprise-B. Its my favorite Enterprise. Keep up the great work. Thank you. " Jolan Tru "

[@archades115]

I used to hate the Excelsior class, because it was new. But it grew on me. It is now my favorite Starfleet vessel. It was a near perfect balance of range, speed, maneuverability, offensive and defensive capabilities. The best testament to the Excelsior's success was not only how long it remained in service... But was updated with many of the latest technologies by the time of the Dominion War and was brought back up to the equivalent role of heavy cruiser. By contrast to the Miranda class, an only slightly older ship that was hopelessly outdated and outmatched in every category.

[@KappaSigDAW]

This video is terrific and validates all my joy about this class of starship. I fell in love with it the first moment I saw it in the theater - and to this day - no other design has captured my attention like this one. Some originals need no changes at all. This is the primary example.

[@esecallum]

GENERATIONS. GOLDEN COLOUR IN ONE SHOT...AWESOME

[@theodoremccarthy4438]

The limited small craft capacity of the Excelsior helps explain why the Constellation class was produced and operated contemporaneously.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

yep that thicc saucer can come in very handy.

[@paulkirby2761]

Nice vid. I was raised on a diet of TNG myself and find myself reacquainting myself to my old Trekkie ways lately lol. I always found the Excelsior a beautiful ship and a bit of mystery in the sense that it never seemed to get the proper screen time as the main ship in a series unlike the Constitution, Galaxy, Defiant, Intrepid etc but I guess the Ambassador is even more shunned. To compare the Construction to the Excelsior. Like night and day really. Let's just focus on the Exploration side of things. The Constitution reminds me of an old WW2 destroyer or sub. Utilitarian, cramped, probably noisy and things like comforts and space were hard to find would be my guess. Indeed if you were a new crewmember, the notion of leaving your comfortable planet to spend months, perhaps years traversing space in a Constitution... well you would indeed want to have a hearty constitution for it! Personally I wouldn't be raising my hand for that adventure any more than I would to become a WW2 submarine crewmember! The Excelsior on the other hand. That looks like the opposite. It's a big, spacious ship that looks like it adds comforts and would be a tranquil place by comparison that "soaks up the miles". It can do everything the Constitution can but better, without breaking a sweat, and a lot more. Yes, I'd imagine a new crewmember would be excited about joining the crew of an Excelsior and that such a grand ship would encourage people to enlist and actually want to explore space on board a ship like that unlike the Constitution that I'd imagine would send most people running the other way. 🤣🏃 Edit- To be fair to the Constitution, I'm sure that probably felt like a big spacious and advanced ship that was a lot more comfortable and a more attractive proposition to serve on board compared to its predecessors.

[@QuinnCat1918]

Excelsior is my favorite ship. 😌

[@scottjackson5173]

I have always loved the aesthetic of the Excelsior class design. Seeing it for the first time in FASA's Star Trek RPG, Ships of the Federation. We are of course talking about Star Trek, before The Search for Spock movie. BEFORE the design became "cannon." There was TOS, and two movies. That was Star Trek then! In the TOS series; NCC-1701 had achieved speeds greater than warp 10 numerous times. Perhaps the most amazing was the invaders from another galaxy. Took over the ship, the modified it to travel between galaxies at the speed of warp 11. In another episode: NCC-1701 barely survived being transported and "reassembled," slightly out of phase. Resulting in a terrifying Nantucket sleigh ride accross space. Reaching an incredible speed of warp 13. Before Scotty managed to restore control of the warp drive. So in 1982, we looked forward to seeing the Excelsior's Transwarp performance. There was also a book, about Star Trek, (based on TOS). I forget the title; that talked about standard warp 1 to 10, transwarp 11 to 15, and hyperwarp 15+. Fans like myself were excited about future designs like Excelsior. Then the Search for Spock was released. Instead of Transwarp drive, it was Transwarp flop! Fans were FURIOUS! Transwarp became a dirty word at Paramount. TNG's reinterpretation of the warp scale, just rubbed salt into the transwarp wound. Also the Excelsior's model cost a lot of money to make. So the Excelsior class became a part of Star Trek. Then the writers of Voyager began redefining the concept of Transwarp travel. Transwarp won, and Paramount lost? Lol! Who's to say? So in greater Star Trek universe, the Excelsior class has become a hundred years of legacy service to the Federation. Often upgraded, the frequent use of Excelsior class ships fueled a certain mystique. I clearly remember a scene screened at the theater. A Klingon ambassador weaves a terrifying image. Federation ships using Transwarp drive, cloaking devices, and genesis torpedoes to transform the universe into the Federation. What Dr. Lenard McCoy called "universal armageddon." When I looked for the scene in post theatrical video released? The scene was cut out of the movies. No one ever said anything about it. Afterwards my friends told a joke. No one ever saw an Excelsior cloak, and no one ever detected an Excelsior at Transwarp speed! Gee! I wonder why?

[@michaelkenny7314]

Refit Connie has two aft phasers above the shuttle bay and four on the bottom of the engineering hull. As for the Bulges Expanded, internal volume for sensors remember this a post praxis galaxy.

[@nunya3163]

I like to think of the bulges being some sort of particle projector tech, intended for exposing cloaked ships. I think this makes more sense than either the official explanation about being an exploration module, or the theory about it being a cloaking device. It's way to big to be a cloak, and modules would fit better on the back end of the secondary hull.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

but not a post Tomed galaxy. federation isn't out of the woods just yet.

[@lynngreen7978]

RE fleet comparisons. My books (and I wonder why you use the FASA recognition manual for the Romulans, but not the Federation or Klingons) use a class rating for tonnage displacement: Starfleet Enterprise (Constitution Refit) Class XI and Excelsior Class XIII Klingon D-7M (k't'inga) R (k't'rika - cloak and plasma torp) and S (k't'mara - just cloak) Class IX, D-10 (Riskahd) Command/Heavy Cruiser (movie era models) Class X, L-24 (Komo Val) Class XIII Romulan V-30 (Winged Defender) Class XII (beginning the tradition of Romulan counterpart being slightly bigger than the Federation's), and Z-1 (Nova) Class XIII So the battleships of the Genesis Crisis Era are all comparable displacement. But an Excelsior outmasses a D-7 by about 100,000mt.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

i use FASA for new classes but given that it came from the 80s i don't 100% rely on it especially for class definitions. since it discribes the Romulan Winged Defender as a cruiser when its really just a Bird of Prey.

[@farshnuke]

It's interesting you mention the cloaking device because in the books it's revealed that after or sometime during the Dominion War there's a decision known only to a few to give Starships the capacity to create and install cloaking devices in the event of an emergency at the consent of an admiral. The Enterprise E uses it for a time in a dire emergency and deconstruct the cloaking device once the situation is resolved. So the Sovereign and Excelsior are more alike

[@midnightblue6668]

My favorite design is still the Constitution Class Refit (ST movies), but I do love to see differing designs. I'd love to see the Saber Class used in a ST-TNG era series/movie as the primary ship.

[@jaredcolon4535]

I really like the double Impulse drive system for the Excelsior Refit /Enterprise B

[@Kiyosuki]

I've always seen it as Starfleet's first "super ship". A dreadnought of the fleet so to speak (even if the wording's probably not entirely right for an exploratory organization.). The NX ships were the first outing, and the Constitutions were all'rounder cruisers to backbone Starfleet along with the ship variations for different purposes, which served Starfleet well for a time, setting the precedent for their fleet's setup, but even though the Connie was so successful that it warranted a fully upgraded 2nd version of itself (and arguably influencing starship design for over a century.) I think time and the advancement of other Alpha Quadrant powers, and the various fates of many of the Connies showed the necessity for a robust "super ship" to anchor the fleet, leaving more room for different cruisers and lighter ships for different purposes. The fact the Excelsior class was used for almost a century, longest class life of any Starfleet ship class before and after, I think speaks to how successful it was. You can even see the Excelsior design's influence in future super ships and even lighter cruisers in the late 24th century and even early 25th. The Refit-Connie's "clean, retro lines." and slender look are sexy but the robust features of the Excelsior just seems better, considering how many ships that came after it seem to take design cues from it. I like to think the Transwarp feature, which didn't pan out, wasn't the only reason for its creation. They wanted to make the "ship of the future" probably in every way and hey, even if Transwarp was a fluke at least the ship's design earned that title.

[@larqven0192]

The Proxima and D10 (if they even exist) look like their respective navies were pushing their design technologies to their limits. Basically being big lumbering battleships. The Excelsior is not just larger and similarly armed, but very fast and reasonably graceful. I'm not sure if ton for ton it's as much a warship, I suspect that it has a great deal of utility. Its shuttlebay perhaps being thought of as an auxiliary shuttlebay, with huge shuttles from its rear dock perhaps hauling material for science or colony resupply? It's kind of hard to square Constitutions being mothballed with a demiliterized Starfleet with Excelsiors still running around and gradually becoming quite numerous. I suspect that the truth is simply that the Constitution was rendered obsolete for exploration, utility and even war. Even the more 'humble' Miranda having its advantages in hypothetical acceleration, frontal (and rear) firepower. and hauling capacity. The Excelsior might well have had serious teething issues and its greatest promise of transwarp being unfulfilled, but it clearly was a more elegant and advanced design than the cumbersome looing Proxima or 'dreadnought' designs. You have an interesting theory about the 'bow-bulges' being space for a cloaking device. I suppose it might be the case, as your reasoning seems sound. The Camp Khitomer accords took place when the Excelsior might have been the only (known) commissioned Excelsior. But "Yesterday's Enterprise" also suggests that the Klingon Empire was not nearly so hapless into the early and mid 24th Century as ST:TUC would suggest. At least in an alternative timeline, and 'alternative timelines' really must have much of their potentials in the timeline that 'happened'; so Starfleet and the Klingons probably did maintain deterrents against the other for some time. And, of course, the Romulans are their own beast, The Nova showing that the Romulans were demonstrating size as well as quality whereas the Klingons were perhaps becoming increasingly focused on quantity of ships coupled with their own cloaking tech. In my own head-canon, the Excelsior may have long been mandated by the Federation Council as the biggest and best allowed, anything greater being unnecessary and needlessly provocative. Over time, the class evolving from the ultra-scaled heavy cruiser of Starfleet to becoming increasingly common, with multiple variants coming into play. After nearly forty years, the ban being lifted and the top spot being taken by the Ambassador. And the beginnings of the 'Galaxy' project, perhaps starting with the New Orleans class, for more sophisticated (and pleasant) starships building up to the Galaxy itself. A design surprisingly fine and delicate about its edges, while the Ambassador is almost like a brick. But for two generations , the image of the Federation's heavy cruiser and explorer being the Excelsior class. (with lots of Miranda variants for Starfleet's own focus on quantity, it would seem).

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

just to be clear do you mean the D-10 or B-10? (the one i showed) its also worth mentioning that the connie did last into the 24th century as a light cruiser. if you think of Connie refits being built in the 2270s and 80s they probably had about 50 years in service. but nearly all constitutions would be decommissioned in the 2340s after 100 years of service. yeah i don't buy the yesterdays enterprise timeline after Kithomer it was just the federation and romulans. the Nova is the romulans moving towards warbird doctrine. but in this period they are still firmly reliant on Birds of prey.

[@larqven0192]

​@@venomgeekmedia9886 B-10, the one you showed. Sorry. It might depend on how many Constitutions are accepted as having been built. Also, the refit REALLY ought to be considered a whole new class. There is quite the time jump between ST:TMP and ST:TWOK. ST:TSFS has the admiral saying the Enterprise is going to be broken up for being battle damaged and '20 years old'. A reference to the show's age, but making little sense. Except it does made SOME sense for rounding up from the time of the major refit in 2271. I'm inclined in my head-canon to think of most of the movie era taking place in the intersection of the end of the 2280s and early 2290s. That helps explain how the Connie refit has gotten so old, and also how a ship as advanced as the Excelsior exists. Especially when the Enterprise refit itself was considered 'hero ship' advanced when it rolled out. Although I do tend to de-emphasize movies in favor of the shows. Even a movie as good as ST:TUC. In particular, despite the Enterprise A being slated for mothballing, Connies might still have been around for awhile as you say. But also that the Klingon Empire was chastened, but still a force to be reckoned with, at least once they picked themselves up again. Praxis blowing up and 'dooming' a vast interstellar empire has never made sense to me. I know that it was meant as an analogy to Chernobyl and the end of the cold war, but analogies should go only so far, and look at Russia now. Sure, its military is clearly checkered at best, but still a threat, and RUSSIAS energy production exports makes confronting that country doubly hard.

[@TAnders877]

Excelsior was always my fav looking ship. AIts just really good looking.

[@Deepingmind]

I always assumed the bulbs on the Gen 2 Excelsiors were anti-cloak systems, well presented video.

[@bettyswunghole3310]

I've got a considerable amount of bulk to me, but no-one ever describes me as "impressive"! 😂

[@JodianGaming]

I agree with pretty much everything, except the cloaking device theory. Setting aside that the flares were added solely so the studio would be able to give the "ribbon" something to hit. We also, in the same movie, see the interior of this area as Kirk navigates it. Kirk's work in this area was focused on the main deflector, which is what this area was actually used for, and it should be noted the area was rather empty aside from the deflector equipment. This is also confirmed when they switch to the exterior camera showing Bones, Scott, and Checkov standing on the railing with the outer hull missing. That area was fairly hollow and didn't appear to house anything other than the deflector systems Kirk worked on. In addition, every time we see a cloaking device in the Star Trek universe, it's not some massive ship system that would require a complete hull redesign to "fit" it into the ship. We see a Romulan cloaking device in TNG, which is nothing more than a draft ball sphere with nomad's head on it. Kirk easily carries it. We see a phase cloaking device in TOS, which is nothing more than an approximately 3ft tube, again easily carried by one person. In DS9 we get to see a Klingon cloaking device carried by Rom and Quark through the corridors of DS9, and while this device is a little bigger, it's also a complete system which includes a power source so it can even cloak itself. In short, cloaking devices aren't big. You can fit them into a small access area, the size of a console, right in Engineering, so there would be absolutely no reason to flare out a hull design to install one. That said, when we specifically start talking about the Enterprise B and it's hull flaring, we should probably turn our focus to the fact that Starfleet, at this time, was starting to develop multi-role starships. Their purely scientific ships, like the Oberth Class, were extremely vulnerable to attack and their purely combat starships, like the Constitution, were limited in what they could do scientifically. I think this would better explain the hull flare design of the Enterprise B, an Excelsior (practically battleship) design, reengineered to fit more scientific equipment into it's hull. This would begin to explain why there were systems in this area tied to the main deflector, a device that we know (in the constitution design anyway) was also used as part of the duotronic sensor array. As a warship, she would be fully capable of handling herself in combat. Add scientific capabilities and she could better map the edge of known space where unknown dangers might lurk. This also feeds better into the "Exploration" role that was at the core of Starfleet. So, while cloaking devices on Excelsior Refits would be cool, I think it's more logical to say these areas were for expanding the scientific capabilities of these already battle-capable ships.

[@birdmonster4586]

Excelsior has a Regal nature. When we first see her she is the new Queen of Starfleet. When we see her in TNG she is the Elder statesmen. The Excelsior's Tactical layout I think shows not just a generational increase in capability, but also the influence of the Cloaking device on the design. Better all around firing arcs became more important than focused limited arcs. The shuttlebay, if configured properly might be able to hole 4-5 good sized warp capable shuttles. Maybe there's an Elevator to a Shuttle storage bay but probably not. We know Starfleet shuttlebays are generally very simple affairs., Strange thing is that the Shuttlebay looks almost like a module that could have been expanded, but starfleet never did that. That large bay on the excelsior I always thought of as a modular mission bay. During those big 5 year missions it could have a large cargo module added for additional carrying capacity. Quite important since replicator technology isn't so developed. I don't think I like the idea of the Cloaking device in the bulges. But The ENT-B is fresh out of dock about 10 years after Excelsior. Plenty of time to bring in a Tranche-2 upgraded spec and design which explains the additions and changes.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

as i say, starfleet has had a romulan cloaking device since the 60s. theres no way they don't have one. interesting idea about the shuttlebay because your right, they do look incomplete, there's plenty of space on that top deck. i mean really why don't more star-ships just use vertical shuttle pads like on DS9

[@LoneWolf0568]

When the flared section says, " Mission specific equipment modules mounting structure", it doesn't have to be "Exploration" missions. It could be for M.A.C.O. equipment or any other Military mission since it is in the same section as the "dock" that we never see used in the movies or shows. Good place to isolate top secret Black Ops missions and personnel from the rest of the ships crew.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

exactly ;)

[@shanenolan8252]

The great experiment ( excelsior). Im not wild about enterprise b flare , but i remember ww2 battleship had them as an extra defense against torpedoes. It allowed for more survivors.. cloaking device is a great idea. The additional impulse engine may be the power plant. I remember in tng pegasus the federation cloak was powered but enterprise impulse engine. Not warp .

[@patandthecats5983]

The excelsior class is one of my favorite ship designs.

[@edkrach8891]

The Excelsior design is my favorite. The Constitution refit is my second.

[@Phrancis5]

same here

[@hudsonball4702]

I know it's been a while since you put this video out, but i HAVE to completely disagree with you about the flaring out secondary hull of the type twos (Enterprise-B Laokta types). You are correct about the Excelsior being a product of a more militaristic time for Starfleet, but it came pretty much at the very end of that militaristic time. After the Khitomer accords ALL this changed. With the Klingons no longer in a cold war with the Federation, Starfleet could finally get back to exploration as their main objective. Adding a large flared out section to the secondary hull to add in more sensors for deep space exploration on a more militaristic design makes perfect sense. It was a sign that the Excelsior was adapting to the new times. remember 8-9 years had passed since the accords were signed. So there was plenty of time to adjust the design for more exploration type Excelsior types. Also I think the flaring out also give it a connection to the Galaxy class which also has a flared out secondary hull.

[@highcommand4786]

Love the idea of the variant Excelsior class ships carrying cloaking devices! Makes perfect sense! Fits in neatly with my headcanon of the Soyuz class being designed specifically to detect clocked ships with all the extra sensor pods to triangulate any subspace distortions. Also fits with the Soyuz having that 3rd larger shuttlebay fitted. Imo for fighter craft that while ineffective against shields would be deadly against a cloaked (therefore unsheilded) ship.

[@marz2467]

Torpedo Bulges. The term you'd be asking Drach about. Many older Dreadnoughts and Super Dreadnoughts were refitted with them. Looks like the old ships put on a little weight.

[@UkrainianPaulie]

They needed a place to "get rid" of Kirk.

[@nunya3163]

I recall seeing a video where they said that the idea for the Constitution in TOS, was to remind people of an old time sailing ship, thus the shots from below, looking up at it all the time. I prefer that to the jet comparison, especially when you think of the Excelsior as the first modern Dreadnought battleship, and the Constitution as an old ship of the line.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

yep, i can definitely get a sail and rigging vibe from the connie.

[@SquagelZ]

The Excelsior was still kicking serious ass deep into the Dominion War. Nuff said.

[@babylon218]

Literally the only thing I disagree with you on is the intention behind the Ent-B refit: yes, it's being built by the typically-militaristic Starfleet of the late-23rd Century, but it's also being built just after the signing of the Khitomer Peace Accords. I can't honestly see Starfleet building a fleet of cloaked battlecruisers (because that's what the Type-1 Excelsior is really - a battlecruiser) after having established a genuine, lasting peace with their biggest enemy. On the other hand, Starfleet might use the opportunity to redesign their battlecruisers for greater utility as Explorer Starships, by fitting more labs. The bulges almost flank the main Deflector, which on-screen evidence indicates was often used to bolster the primary sensor systems, so those bulges would be the perfect place for additional sensor equipment. Of course, that doesn't mean Starfleet didn't leave room to *fit* a cloaking device with that additional space, especially if tensions with the Romulans ramped up before the Treaty of Algeron.

[@Nikephorus]

I know for me there were two things that made me realize the Excelsior was a very successful ship for Starfleet. First; the original Excelsior was commissioned in 2285 and the class was still in service during the Dominion war 100 years later. That's an impressive service life. The second was when the Lakota went toe to doe with the Defiant, a modern dedicated warship, and the battle was basically a draw (granted both ships were holding back).

[@barrybend7189]

14:19 The Bulges on the Enterprise B were added deflector components. It added space deeper in for engineering labs and internal fabrication. So yes scientific space is a bonus in the refit.

[@k1productions87]

13:40 Considering when we see that section blown open, it was a Deflector Control area. "facilities for long range exploration" could just be for PR, whereas what they actually are is enhancement for the Main Deflector, giving it extra combat ability. Though its non-canon, we see the Excelsior in the DC-Comics "Mirror Universe Saga" using things like anti-cloaking pulses and tracking phasers. In-canon, we see Kirk modifying the Deflector relays to create a resonance burst large enough to simulate the antimatter discharge of a Photon Torpedo blast. So no doubt these extra relays and equipment are to give the Main Deflector some extra combat applications. Which would totally fit the era. More combat ability, cloaked behind the guise of exploration

[@alexion2001]

While this could also be true and does seem likely, I like to think it's specifically because of "cloaked Excelsiors" that the Federation was banned from using cloaking devices at the treaty of Algeron.

[@k1productions87]

@@alexion2001 That too could be PR. Perhaps the anti-cloaking tech is what we are really giving up in the treaty. that could be why we do not see upgraded Excelsiors in the 24th Century. We just say we dont get to cloak either, to save face. Us being able to cloak too is hardly enough to scare the Romulans… but negating their advantage would be

[@7gmeister]

I played Star Fleet Battles back in the day and the heavy cruisers were powerful ships that were extremely well balanced while other ships smaller out larger had to trade one thing for another. Battleships were rare mainly because you could build several CAs for the cost of one battleship and it gave you larger ship numbers to defend your borders which was important but you had more firepower as well. 3 heavy cruisers could easily take down a battleship but battleships were extremely hard to take down. The other thing to note is that larger ships had better range to their weapons and much more powerful shields. Their one Achilles He’ll though was That they were expensive so losing one had a much bigger impact than losing a couple of heavy cruisers especially since they took so long to build

[@nicholasmorsovillo2752]

Aside from the U.S.S. Lakota where we got to see her use her phaser banks while fighting the Defiant in Star Trek Deep Space Nine when Star Trek 6:The Undiscovered Country come out the only weapons we saw the Excelsior use was her photon torpedoes against the Klingon Bird of Prey along with the Enterprise A.

[@dontdrunkimshoot8220]

The excelsior succeeding the refit constitution was like an Iowa class succeeding the modernized standard battleships after the ~15 year hiatus on building new battleships from the 20s to late 30s. There really was a conspicuous gap from the 2240s constitution, modernized in the 2270s, and the debut of the excelsior at about 2390. Only a naval treaty could explain why there wasn't some intermediate clean sheet step between them. An excelsior is 3.7 times the volume of a Connie refit, it would have triggered every escalation clause in the quadrant 3 times over lol. A lowly ktinga, that wile almost none of its mass is wasted on anything not contributing to combat performance, very unlike starfleet ships, is 5.4 times smaller than an excelsior. klingon ships should not be underestimated on size, they are hyper optimized for combat duty, they have an extremely short operation period measured in weeks to months not years, in a fight at least half the mass of a federation ship is useful for little more than damage soak. I'd say a Klingon ship is a match for something federation general purpose 2.5 times its weight, but an excelsior is well beyond that, 2 ktinga would give it some trouble though ~2290. The enterprise B configuration is a peculiar 1 off thats not so easy to retcon. I decided on it being an enhanced ultra long range explorer type, hyper optimized at trailblazing beyond friendly or even charted territory. The more than doubled impulse drives probably provides enough extra fusion reactors to run the ship at a limited warp speed if needed, or allow the ship to operate in combat with no diminished performance if main power is knocked off line, at least until it runs out of gas. A design benchmark not seen again until the sovereign class, and shown in practice with it's battle against the scimitar. The bussard collectors, while a very secondary feature on ships operating inside of federation supply lines, could be of critical importance were mission parameters include having to farm a nebula for gas to continue a journey, the B's were clearly enhanced. The torpedo blister on the side struck me as a multi purpose expansion to store more fuel, and/or house science labs displaced in the primary hull by the additional impulse drives. I imagine these B type excelsior are so rare because of the increased cost, on whats probably already the most 'expensive' ship class starfleet had ever built. likely the variation never was constructed outside of the 'block 1' excelsior production run as well. And why don't we ever see any? because none of the episodes of the week take place in deep space were they would operate! The lakota was likely just back from a long deployment, and then made a testbed for a new modernization program that was being developed on the assumption a gigantic war was about to happen.

[@matts1166]

The bulbous bow version was seen in some of the larger fleet scenes too.

[@joeswanson733]

the connie of the 2240s was supposed to be the next leap in starship technology. THE starship class. fast forward another 40 -50 years and presto another major leap in starship tech. while all the other alpha /bea quadrant powers stagnated the feds continued to do R&D and well you get the excelsior.

[@Spade-bx9rh]

The Excelsior is one of my favorite ship as well as the retro fit good job!

[@ironstarofmordian7098]

I didn't expect this. And I'm glad I was surprised.

[@manw3bttcks]

The secondary hull has the big unused void underneath it (13:45 ), there should be a "heavy excelsior" class where that's built in and used partly to make the shuttle bay larger

[@Audioholics]

Interesting video. I can't help but wonder if a uprated Galaxy class from the Dominion War era would outgun an uprated Excelsior like the Lakota?

[@ryanswma]

5:14 That Excelsior looks a hell of a lot longer than 367m to me - shouldn't it be more like 467m? Also, regarding the weapons - curious about the timeline change here. Always thought the 27-phaser battery was unique to the Lakota, or at least the 24th century refits. IIRC O'Brien says something along the lines of "that's a lot of firepower for an Excelsior class". The standard Excelsior carried only 12 upon launch according to Memory Alpha - still powerful, but nowhere near as overpowered at the start. Makes political sense too, imagine the ruckus the conservative pacifists would've kicked up if Starfleet even proposed a 30-phaser ship. So... What changed in the Venomverse?

[@birdmonster4586]

Yeah the generally accepted length is ~465 metres Supported by most evidence. There are examples of it not being scaled properly but still the generally accepted size is 467m

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

yeah 367m is a typo its 467m

[@NatureismyHome-cu6zs]

It’s also stated to be 511.21 meters by Spacedock and some online sources.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

@@NatureismyHome-cu6zs that is from the awful ds9 tech manual. i'd burn every copy if i could.

[@ryanswma]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 Now you've piqued my interest... wonder if I should give it a look to see what's so terrible about it

[@davidbrunelle4740]

Cool video man. In 2230’s star fleet gambled on accurately predicting the future of technology in regards to upgrading their fleets but they where wrong. But I’m the 2270’s they got it right and that’s why all newer ships like Miranda and excelsior lasted so long and older designs like the constitution and constellation did not.

[@kevinhoward9593]

I would have loved to see a series based with an Excelsior ship.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

You mean one with captain sulu?

[@Rick_Cleland]

@@venomgeekmedia9886, Or The *_Enterprise B..._*

[@nicholasmorsovillo2752]

You know it's funny that when I look at pictures of the Excelsior Refit Class U.S.S. Enterprise NCC-1701-B and her sister ships aside from the differences in design the Excelsior Refit Class looks a little bigger than the original Excelsior Class design and I think that might be because the Excelsior Refit Class has a bigger impulse drive to the changes around the Main Navigational Deflector Dish to the changes around the warp nacelles and I think the saucer section looks a little wider than the standard model.

[@paulbeaney4901]

I could tear up an Excelsior with a K'tinga in klingon academy. Your are spot on with the mismatch in firepower but, the Excelsior can't maneuver for toffee. Thats how i used to beat Excelsior, out maneuver and stay behind it, yes there are phasers but those torpedo launchers are useless from a dorsal aft arc. But if you try and keep it at mid range and don't watch Excelsiors firing arcs, it will blow you out of the sky pretty quickly.

[@Wildcard120]

Thanks for video. I am waiting for the Romulan Nova class to make a small or big screen appearance.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

As am I 😉

[@KertaDrake]

I find the thought that the reason Starfleet gave up cloaking devices was because everyone around them realized "Oh s***! Starfleet is actually terrifying when they use cloaks!" to be amusing. The rare times Starfleet is seen to use one, it's pretty much always used to great effect, whether all the stuff the Defiant did, or creating that phase cloak that probably actually would work perfectly if not for all the stuff that went down on the Pegasus.

[@thewargod1995]

Excelsior was a battleship. I'll have words with anyone who says otherwise. Ya a Nova is never going to outgun an Excelsior. All you have to do is look at the FASA data for that. Also you make it seem like Excelsior over a very long lifetime couldn't have serious weapons upgrades. You fail to take into account the different amounts of damage that different weapons would do to. For example in WWII a KGV and a North Carolina were roughly the same size but in terms of damage output the NC's 16" guns would unquestionably do more damage than KGV's 14" guns. This was proven conclusively when Rodney and KGV engaged the Bismarck. On the Bismarck's wreck you can tell where very heavy 14" shells hit the ship but did not penetrate the armor and every place Rodney hit it destroyed something. Same is true here. More to the point if you watch the final battle in Star Trek VI look closely at the torpedo mounts on Enterprise. You'll see Enterprise has 4 torpedo mounts, whereas the ship that appears in Star Trek II/III only had 2. Enterprise was upgraded. I also believe you missed several phaser mounts on both Enterprise and Excelsior in the Aft firing arc. Now admittedly the ships are still considerably weaker from behind regardless but they still had more firepower than you gave them credit for. Definitely more firepower than anything the Romulans or Klingons could have put up. The Excelsior could probably take 2 or 3 D-7 K'Tingas. With its better technology, weapons and shields it could probably take anything the Klingons or Romulans could throw at it. I did not hear you address the L-24. You should look into FASA more. Also when it comes to shuttle bays there are very large openings in the neck of the ship which could be shuttle bays. And what is that hub thing on the bottom of the saucer? A forward shuttle bay maybe?

[@joeswanson733]

actually i would love to see the proxima class dreadnought take on a excelsior class. :D

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

i think you underestimate what the Nova is capable of. you are right i did miss the rear phasers on the Connie, but it still has no rear torpedos. i've seen the L-24 around but personally its a bit too chunky for me, it feels more like an assault ship.

[@thewargod1995]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 None that were ever shown... In the FASA universe it does. The Nova also has more torpedoes but weaker ones and they are not plasma torps.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

@@thewargod1995 all i'll say is... watch this space...

[@hemaccabe4292]

On the Enterprise B, I imagined the secondary hull flares reflect a transitional design between the original Excelsior and the Galaxy class where something about the development of the warp reactor has become more pancake shaped as it has developed.

[@TheWoblinGoblin]

It's good point but still Scotty would take you to school for pancaking a warpcore ;)

[@hemaccabe4292]

@@TheWoblinGoblin I was just rewatching ST VI. Scotty shot the Colonel quite well. But I stand by my idea. The Galaxy class’ secondary hull is very flat, this points to a warp core that needs to be wide and flat compared to the Constitution’s and Excelsior’s which must have been round. I see the B’s core as being transitional. That’s my humble opinion and I’m sticking to it.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

@@hemaccabe4292 I would stress Proportionally the galaxy class engineering Hull I'd still huge compared to previous classes.

[@hemaccabe4292]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 True, but the shape still implies a wider and flatter warp core proportionally.

[@trazyntheinfinite9895]

@@hemaccabe4292 the goddamn fck? The Galaxy class' warpcore is a huge and tall mofo.

[@ebenezer1690]

USS Excelsior and your work Big V make my whole.

[@merafirewing6591]

I like the Promixa class because of the look and uniqueness.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

its grown on me. which is more than can be said for the federation class.

[@merafirewing6591]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 would've been awesome seeing the line battle strategy making a comeback into Star Trek, even the D-10 tho wonky looking still earns it's place of showing that Klingons are definitely competitive.

[@merafirewing6591]

​@@venomgeekmedia9886 as for the Federation class, I think that third nacelle would've been very useful for the saucer section in case the engineering section is gone.

[@steelgreyed]

4:50 On the matchups. You mentioned for like 2 minutes straight how the Excelsior is so much bulkier, this also means larger target. One of the advantages of the Constitution, something Kirk in Tos and soon Pike in "Strange New Worlds" will vouch on, the Constitution is much harder to hit than an Excelsior, much less an Oberth also in the Movies, and that extra bulk and girth is not armor plating, so Katinga once again becomes a mobile shark, instead of the oversized lumbering underdog, especially with Cloak ambush options. Bigger only means better if you can protect it, and the Power Core was only marginally better at mitigating actual hits while the added the bulk does almost always mean easier to hit, its like facing up against A Galaxy Class, yeah its got a gigantic power core, however its almost virtually impossible to miss capable of shielding entire other ships by simply getting in the way, with DS9 going into horrific detail the flaws in oversized Federation glass cannons. With the Ambassador Class being an outright proof of concept being "smaller" hit profile than several of its preceding flag ships. I instead follow the opinion that TOS star ships were "war ships" with TNG era vessles being Armed Carnival Cruise Ships, with the Excelsior being the first in this line of thought that first got curbed by the Borg Wars, and then outright thrown away in the Dominion Wars to prefer earlier "military" concepts of not bringing your family into a firefight, and streamlining your profile.

[@lawneymalbrough4309]

The excelsior class was forerunner if the galaxy class. Star fleet was opting for longer missions. They needed ships that could keep the crew happy on longer missions. So they needed more space.

[@richardtrue2758]

Now the only thing I had a problem with all this is the Excelsior plans I've seen says it has a 2nd shuttle bay at the bottom of the engineering hull but at least you covered it most others don't even mention it

[@andyrwebman]

Great comment about Starfleet being more military. Especially the cloaking device speculation. You know something's gone wrong when 20 years later the fleet not only winds down its military operations, but signs a treaty on cloaking devices that leaves you at a massive tactical disadvantage. Pacifism that led to great vulnerability later.

[@DocHarpie]

I love how you emphasize the Excelsior's weapons systems; I literally got an orgasm when you showed its phaser turrets and torpedo launchers. Thank you sir!

[@jasonscarborough94]

Much as I love the Excelsior, the small hangar space is confusing especially when the Curry class is a) built from repurposed Excelsior hulls and b) a light carrier designed to support a full squadron of dedicated strike-craft.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

well key thing there is "light carrier" i don't think it can take many.

[@jasonscarborough94]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 true

[@JLRules]

Apparently the flares were added to the engineering hull so the SFX team could still blast a hole into the ship but keep the original Excelsior model intact underneath.

[@Duchess_Van_Hoof]

You know, I now understand why everyone talks about this ship. Thank you

[@Greg87601]

Yes! The Excelsior was a game changer.