Versus Series: Revan vs Darth Plagueis

Welcome everyone to the next installment of the Versus Series! I know it's been some time but I'm very excited to share this with all of you as it turned into a match up I am very proud of. After re-reading Darth Plagueis for the hundredth time, I got the urge to make a versus video and knew I had to use him. He's also someone I've been wanting to use since I started making these kind of videos. As for his opponent, Revan was technically the first combatant I ever analyzed. When he came into my head I knew he was going to be in this battle. I also wanted to use him since my writing has improved immensely since my first ever video. But anyways I hope it was worth the wait and without further ado I present, The Prodigal Knight Vs. The Master of Life and Death, Revan vs Darth Plagueis!
Legacy Mini Marathon Playlist- bit.ly/2SWEP75
Latest Versus video- shorturl.at/gHNO1
Season 3 Finale- bit.ly/3rpcXFf

[@RobTerra]

Well everyone I hope it was worth the wait. I am thrilled to announce The Prodigal Knight Vs. The Master of Life and Death, Revan vs Darth Plagueis!

[@zacharyo3824]

Thes past two videos have been fun and cant wait to see what you do next.

[@jpraise6771]

Greetings my friends from beyond and within the grave. In the short time in which we inhabit this world, It would be my honor to offer you a fresh start with the man who saved my life. Let today be the day you begin with the Almighty Jesus Christ✝️

[@tomcross3000]

this is your best yet! great job. i love narrative verdicts like yours

[@exile6688]

Revan was known for his skill and mastery in unarmed combat and military tactics. Something that he was respected for by the Mandalorians.

[@treblazer]

Wooooow! Someone who ACTUALLY doesn’t cheat Plagueis out of his power and abilities! I was TRULY surprised by the outcome and the video in general! I am truly surprised, this was an excellent video! I hope to see mor of your content in the future and am definitely a new subscriber now!

[@darklord7289]

No way ,great to see you back Rob. even if i have to respectfully disagree with the outcome., . Plagues greatest focus was the etherial arts and science, where as Revan was much more focused on rounding out his force abilities (both dark and light side)and his sharp use war time strategies. Revan has greater experience but Plagueis is certainly more older, each match each other when it comes to just straight up knowledge and IQ,they are very much on par, but Revan is more combatively skilled where as Plagueis is a much more intelligent academic. Revan has bad history with those who match if not surpass him in pure force abilities (Vitiate) where as Plagueis has never faced anyone who was on par with him, but i do see Prime Revan matching Vitiate within force abilities.Also , Revan is more easily skilled with the blade weilding 2 blades reverse grip , where Plagueis openly admits he dosent't Lightsaber combat, Where as Plagueis is waiting for the moment to blow Revan away , Revan is looking for the moment where would get a read on Plagueis , adjust and covertly taked him down with a mixed force attarck. i do apologize for writing a novel of this , just had to get out of my chest .

[@MusicFan752]

I definitely agree on in terms of lightsaber combat and force abilities. Revan at the time of kotor 1 wasn’t considered the greatest lightsaber duelist of the time, that goes to malak, same time though Revan wasn’t that far behind him and while not as skilled made up for it with his tactics and strategies given the background between him and malak. Plagueis as a duelist isn’t bad by any means given his clash with Venamis but I don’t think he could contend with Revan in a similar manner as Revan would have a more cool and calculated head unlike venamis that let the fight get the better of him and started to overextend when feeling too confident. A fight between them in lightsaber dueling would be a slow paced one I’d say where both sides analyze each other and develop plans of attack defend etc. a key factor I’d say though is the battle experience, where plagueis was something that lurked in the shadows with having as many battles or maybe even less than the likes of bane and the fights he had was against one force user, Revan has had numerous battles against all kinds of opponents with several of them being Jedi and sith and has gained the experience from it to be a formidable opponent. Not to mention if he can actually contend with the likes of darth malak and actually win, I don’t see plagueis having a better chance against Revan. Not to say plagueis is a weak duelist but I wouldn’t put him in the upper echelon of lightsaber combatants, I’d say more so in the middle, knowledgeable and skilled but not exactly a major threat in lightsaber combat. As for force abilities though I definitely agree with, Revan is powerful and has a wider range of abilities that he uses well, but plagueis is pretty close himself and pretty powerful, if anything I think some underrate his force abilities a bit.

[@K.J.Richard]

Plagueis is stated to be the most powerful Sith lord who has ever lived by the time he was the master of Sidious, this statement alone is enough to put aside all the feats of both

[@darylsdesigns6679]

Sees the thumbnail Me: “Holy sh*t!” 🤩

[@lapplandkun9273]

OMG the man the myth the legend returns!

[@tannermcintosh1071]

GREAT to see amazing star wars vs content still being made

[@Psychoveliatonet]

Great video! Definitely agree with the outcome, too. Revan is very powerful - for his era, but by the time of TPM the Sith had evolved. The crazy part is Plagueis' combat prowess is arguably a less impressive part of his character. His true talents are elsewhere - as is appropriate for his era.

[@eatingpancakesrightnow2786]

I heard, "anointing them Darth Revan and Darth Malak, the Dark Bois of the Sith!"

[@DropkickNation]

What if... Revan and Malak just had formed a band called "Dark Bois of the Sith"?

[@nasiquedayes4805]

PERFECT , Do yaddle vs zannah next Please

[@darylsdesigns6679]

Considering Yaddle’s duel with Dooku, I think Zannah would win due to her pure defensive style and youth.

[@KumaoftheForest]

I’d love to see Yaddle in a Versus match

[@poopooman-q7r]

@@darylsdesigns6679 Yeah i don't see yaddle having much to offer when it comes to attempting to counter Zannah's sorcery.

[@lapplandkun9273]

@@poopooman-q7r I mean, her spells of fear and madness would do jack shit to her. But yeah, Zannah's defensive style is simply too good

[@TinyTorah]

Knowing a good deal on both Yaddle on Zannah, I actually find this to be an excellent match-up. Of the PT Jedi, Yaddle would’ve been one of the few whom could be argued to have a decent defense against the likes of Sith sorcery.

[@kylemc2290]

Great to have you back man! Totally worth the wait, and I'm glad to see both characters (especially Revan) get fleshed out to such a degree combatively. I agree that Revan's mentality definitely went the route of TCW Maul after he was freed from The Maelstrom in SWTOR, becoming more focused on aggression and show of force in his tactics to overwhelm his opponent rather than undermining them with a myriad of tactics as he would have during his time as the Dark Lord of The Sith. Since you touched upon it a bit in the vid, how do you think Revan's other selves would do against Plagueis since they operate differently in combat, such as his Kotor 1 and before his mind wipe, or his Shadow of Revan and Revan Novel (before being captured by Vitiate) selves? Thanks for producing such great content bud, and it's good to have you back.

[@TinyTorah]

Mando Wars Revan gets bullied by Plagueis. Darth and Revan Redeemed put up a decent fight, but lose to Plagueis. But Shadow of Revan is simply too much for him. Revan Reborn and Foundry however, are the best iterations to pit against him.

[@TinyTorah]

Good, I’m glad you’re pitting Foundry Revan against Plagueis. Revan Reborn (Revan at his peak in the Revan novel) and Foundry Revan are the best iterations to pit against someone like Plagueis, as the earlier iterations like Revan Redeemed, Darth Revan, and especially Mando Wars Revan is simply too weak to go against Plagueis, and yeah, Shadow of Revan is definitely too much for Plagueis to handle. Physicals: -While I agree with you that Plagueis gets the strength edge, you saying, if Revan could, like, Plagueis, effectively punch through armor, then why didn’t he against the Mandos, is a bit silly. Not only was that a significantly weaker version of Revan, but beskar is ridiculously more durable than just basic ass armor worn by assassins. I get the Maladian Assassins are not to be underestimated and were greatly impressive and noted Jedi-killers IIRC, but I’m pretty sure their armor, unlike the Mandalorians, was nothing of note. -I’m confused as to your reasoning for why Revan wins the speed edge. It seems your reasoning is simply because he won the duel against Yusanis. Like, how exactly does that place Revan>all of Plagueis’ speed feats? especially given how very little info we have on Yusanis. While I could buy the argument for Revan>Plagueis here, it would more so be due to scaling and just how much more powerful he grew between say Revan Redeemed, and Revan Reborn/Foundry Revan (and subsequently his force aug. including speed would also have grown). Yeah, no, reacting to a canon fired is massively beneath casually protecting oneself from 360 degrees of blasterfire from 100 droids. 😅 Feat-for-feat, Revan doesn’t stack up well against Plagueis in regard to physicals. -Definitely agree on the endurance/durability. I think you’re kinda overstating just how much of a hindrance Plagueis’ mask would be, but it’s valid to still consider it a hindrance for Plagueis. Lightsaber combat: -I’m sorry, but what does warfare tactics have to do with skill or even tactics in lightsaber combat? 😅 A tactical mind is a tactical mind, sure, but to hammer home the point much more bluntly, broad warfare tactics are NOT synonymous with fighting tactics (on a much more micro, personal scale). I agree with your verdict that, if anything, Plagueis is the more skilled lightsaber duelist. Force: -While Revan’s mental fortitude against Vitiate while in stasis is plenty impressive , it should be noted that Vitiate wasn’t constantly actively prying Revan’s mind, and, more significantly, Meetra’s force ghost accompanied and aided Revan IIRC, for the longevity of his stasis… So Revan overcoming Vitiate’s mind-control was, IIRC, largely due to distance, and Vitiate not actively maintaining his control over him and Malak far more so than it was Revan actually overcoming it himself… What do you mean Revan “resisted” the combined telepathic attacks from Vitiate and The Dread Masters? IIRC, they weren’t attempting to kill Revan (otherwise why keep him in stasis, ya know?), but to torture him, which they did. I think it’s a bit reductive to say Revan “resisted” their attacks. Also again, he had help in Meetra Surik bolstering his mental defenses as a force ghost. -It was specifically Bane as of the FIRST of three Bane books who considered the rituals from Revan’s holocron so impressive. Bane’s own knowledge would increase dramatically between Path of Destruction and Dynasty of Evil. Incorrect. Bane’s only involvement in The Thought Bomb was giving Lord Kaan the instructions for how to create it. Earlier however, Bane DID enact, with the help of the top Sith of Kaan’s Brotherhood of Darkness, presumably another, unnamed ritual he learned from Revan’s holocron. It created a massive firestorm that threatened to destroy (the surface of) Ruusan. -Plagueis manipulating syringes with TK by microscopic amounts isn’t actually impressive when it’s noted that the creations of holocrons also requires microscopic TK precision. -Revan having access to force powers that are game-specific like whirlwind should not contribute to any kind of edge in combat. Any master of TK should be able to perform the ability. And I think it’s PLENTY fair to assume Plagueis could perform force wound and crush as well. -I agree Revan’s sheer will is something Plagueis can’t overwhelm or even get the better of. However, I also don’t see Revan getting the better of Plagueis with any kind of TP either. -I’m concerned on your framing of the Rule of Two Sith. While it’s true they were in hiding, they were also constantly perfecting themselves (INCLUDING COMBATIVELY), growing stronger over a thousand years. And when their starting point is freaking Bane, who’s already around the level of suited Vader in his prime, possibly even a bit higher, that should speak volumes of around where the end of the RoT Sith, like Tenebrous, Plagueis, and Sidious should be. -To be clear though, I do agree Revan should get the Force edge, but it’s for a reason I’m surprised you barely touched on. As you did mention, Revan knew a good deal of impressive Sith rituals, but you didn’t extend that into arguing that he knew Sith sorcery in general, which would be a kind of weakness for Plagueis due to Darth Gravid destroying most of that kind of knowledge for the rest of the RoT Sith. In other words, it’s Revan’s knowledge of more ancient and esoteric Force abilities that I think grant him the edge here, more than anything else. Verdict/Conclusion: -It’s so cringe how people think Plagueis’ “marionette” feat against Venamis was some special thing. It wasn’t. It was merely good writing for basically saying that Plagueis sunk into Soresu, allowing The Force to dictate his movements rather than expend useless mental energy, and this then allowed him to better recognize and capitalize on Venamis’ opening. -Also, it’s “proDigal” not “proDGigal.” 😅 -Bastila Shan was able to knock back a likely-holding-back, VASTLY pre-prime Revan. Why include that in your overall reasoning for why Plagueis would win? 😂 You don’t actually believe Bastila could do that to Revan circa Foundry, do you? -I AM glad you gave Plagueis his fair credit when it comes to lightsaber combat. It seems many in the Star Wars KZbin versus video community over the years have consistently lowballed Plagueis in that regard. -Regardless of whom you would’ve said would win, I wouldn’t have taken issue with it. I think you choosing specifically FOUNDRY Revan to go against Plagueis, was the best iteration of Revan to pick, and made for a relatively close match where I could see arguments for either winning. That said, I foresee you potentially catching a lot of flack for not mentioning Revan’s contention with Vitiate, who’s pretty inarguably above Plagueis, and IMO, is the single strongest argument for why, if anything, Revan would win here.

[@crazyscotsman9327]

Respectfully disagree. There isn’t a world where Plaguies wins vs Revan. Malak is easily in the same tier of skill as Dooku and a threat to almost anyone. And Revan beat him twice. Revan is easily a tier of strength higher then Plaguies is in terms of force power. The only being to definitively defeat Revan was Darth Vitiate a being who gives Dark Empire Sideous a run for his money.

[@Wes_Bradley-Taubner]

What's more, Revan beat Malak while Malak was amped by the Star Forge

[@tommydeamon7657]

Revan was badder than any these other sith problem is to really know revan you gotta read read comics novels and the dialog on the screen and that's too much reading for tons of these folks but plagus ain't got shit on revan Revan the master if what like 9 Saber styles and the light and the dark abd those sweet spots inbetwen naww hell Vader and palps ain't got shit on Revan nor cry baby Skywalker luke

[@lapplandkun9273]

@@tommydeamon7657 I hope you're referring to Disney Canon luke as a crybaby

[@drakethesnek6429]

Nah, that's wrong. Malak is nowhere near dooku's level. Malak was a tier above maul, and revan was a tier above Malak. This would put him around windu's level, perhaps slightly below windu.

[@crazyscotsman9327]

@@drakethesnek6429 Respectfully no. Malak was a master of Makashi, Juyo, and Ataru, he was stronger then any of the Jedi council masters of Dantooine, and second only to Revan in terms of power during that era. (And Revan beat him in the Star Forge, where his powers were amplified.) He was incredibly knowledgeable about the force and powerful in it's use. He is an absolute monster. Malak is easily in that tier 2, tier 1.5 level. Nearing grand mastery but still not at the highest levels of Force Wielders.

[@alexanderp.goddard5722]

The real problem i see in alot of vs videos is that no one takes into account real battle experience. Yes plagueis is older, but the number of real battles plagueis has been in i can count on one hand. Revan is a seasoned fighter who has been in literal hundreds of saber on saber fights. Good training dosent equal actually being in a real life or death battle, i just feel like no one really takes that into account that much when debating the old republic vs prequels and beyond.

[@Wes_Bradley-Taubner]

Rob did actually mention how Revan has more battle experience thanks to the mandalorian wars. Also, Foundry Revan is centuries old, so he's actually older than Plagueis (though many of those centuries were spent being imprisoned)

[@TinyTorah]

My guy, STAR WARS doesn’t take into account ‘real battle experience.’ At least, it matters far less compared to skill and power. Sidious himself is the best counter to the ‘real combat experience’ argument.

[@Supreme0757]

@@TinyTorahtrue but he’s a once in a lifetime talent if not a once in a 10 life times talent.

[@KumaoftheForest]

My headcanon is Revan used Makashi to cut off Malek’s jaw

[@dimond360_]

This is a day long worth remembering. It is great to see you back in your element and your skill has only gotten better. I will humbly admit that I was a tad worried with the teaser showing Darth Plaguies. Not because of any doubt of your abilities but mainly for the fact that he is a character so commonly used in so many different matchups. I am glad to say that all of my prior worries were brushed aside because you succeeded in not only giving a well balanced assessment of the dark lord but also one that made me re-examine and reflect on my own understanding of the characters skill and power. And to use Revan of all characters as his opponent was a surprise I could not have seen coming. As always it is great to see your work again. You have always been an inspiration to me and my own meager attempts at making such Versus Videos and you never fail to bring something both unique and engaging every time. Great work and I can’t wait for whatever next is to come.

[@Chris-zc5lu]

Enjoyed your hard work!.

[@zackthezabarak739]

This was awesome!!!! I’m so glad your still making videos!

[@markusnielsen9170]

Mr. Terra I'm so happy that you're back. I originally discovered your channel just about the time you took your break. I immediately loved your content and was so sad/ disappointed when you stopped uploading, everything makes sense though when you explained it. I don't really know where I'm going with this. I guess I'm just happy that you're back

[@RobTerra]

Thanks for the kind words:)

[@prometheusmodelow8322]

Fantastic analysis! At first i thought Revan would get the edge on Lightsabers and Plagueis on the Force, i do feel like Plagueis being a legitimate threat to Sidious means he's the most likely to win here.

[@red9mm]

Solid fight. Great video

[@arroz6200]

Glad you're back, i have a recomendation for you, Valenthyne Farfalla vs Lucien Draay.

[@RobTerra]

Love this

[@DropkickNation]

Interesting matchup. Slight edge to Lucien for me.

[@LiShuBen]

@@DropkickNationmaybe with raw skill but farfalla was a wartime Jedi who held his ground against darth bane for a short time. While he didn’t survive the fight, I don’t think Lucian is gonna fight nearly as hard as the beserking darth bane farfalla held his ground against

[@Wes_Bradley-Taubner]

I like that fight. I have to agree with Dropkick. Draay wins due to his force powers imo, but both are easily comparable

[@DropkickNation]

@@LiShuBen Well, technically Lucien also lived in war times with the Jedi Civil Wars starting and the Mandalorian Wars raging on. xD Even if he was preoccupied with the Jedi Covenant. Farfalla is a hard Jedi to grasp for me, since we never have seen his in much combat. The Battle of Tython is hard to judge, since he had the backings of many other Jedi, including one of the greatest blademasters of her day. I don't have the specifics memorized anymore, haven't read the book in years, but I don't recall him standing out with anything, even if he fought Zannah and Obelisk Bane.

[@baki484]

What a way to break through the silence. I've been binging your videos.

[@Darth_Iblis_Goetia]

Welcome back!!! Also at some point could you do Darth Thanaton vs Inquisitor Jerec?

[@exile6688]

Also as a martial artist, it took the greatest Jrdi and Sith of the SWTOR Era just to subdue him. All of whom are either between the top high council to middle grand master tier.

[@neonthunder3261]

HES BACK

[@HomeofCombatSports.]

Beautiful

[@SurprisedDrums-oh6jg]

Yo Rob, I love that you picked these characters, both extremely powerful. I haven’t finished the video yet, but you mentioned the Pleguies had synthetic crystal, incorrect. Disney took over and said that they bleed the crystals. Can’t wait to view your other vs. Also you’ve earned a subscriber 💯🙋🏾‍♂️

[@TheAncientSith]

Darth Plagueis is really underrated

[@Tulak234]

If I could give a recommendation Cin Drallig vs Dooku?

[@WeaponsRemorse]

Wooooo new upload

[@CKwall1903]

Good analysis surgery for your Channel

[@Romaboo680]

I think that Horus Lupercal vs Abeloth would be interesting. Once (relatively) noble beings connected the the most powerful beings in their galaxies (The Emperor of Man and the Ones respectively) and getting corrupted and twisted into agents of chaos and evil. Edit: Assuming this is Chaos Horus. Loyalist Horus would be obliterated

[@abeloth1116]

This is an Amazing idea ! Regarding that abeloth is a literal god and dominated the ones who can Warp and create universes, i believe this Battle is Bit one-sided. Horus is a beast, Even for a primarch, but not god-like. My Money is easily on abeloth :)

[@Romaboo680]

@abeloth1116 Base Horus stands no chance. Chaos infused Horus who put the Big E on deaths door is much more even.

[@abeloth1116]

@@Romaboo680 I agree 💯

[@adamtremblay9126]

Yes! Its seems the Star Wars versus community showing itself as of lately. (Disclaimer: I haventnread a ton of eu material, so most of my knowledge is from other versus videos, but i feel like i know just enough to have an opinion, but i seriously need to read the Plagueis novel sometime.) Even tho im only just at the force abilities round thus far in terms of watching, Ive enjoyed this video much, tho I def disagree with the dueling verdict. While u do have a fair point and my opinion on Plagueis's duelist abilties has increased slightly, at the end of the day Revan defeated Darth Malak, a feat superior to anything Plagueis has done by a decent margin. I see... Venemis? As prob around low council level, while Malak is at least high council level, and even if Plagueis improved, i just dont think it was enough to bridge the gap, besides, Plageius won that battle with the force, not the blade. I still respect ur opinion tho, its an interesting one, and its not like i havent disagreed before, like I massively disagree with Shado beating Plo. I see Shado Vao being around the skill the level of Asajj Ventress actually, u know, the one Plo beat with one hand, plus not having a hand prevents the two handed power strikes that were the mark of jdem so. Still tho, amazing vid thus far. Edit: Yeah, I definitely disagree with the verdict. The material round def goes to Revan. U have made my view of Plagueis's dueling abilities increase slightly, but still, I think he is vastly outclassed by Revan. Simply put, Revan wanted to be the best duelist he could, while Plagueis just saw if as a tedious necessity. He could hold off Revan for a bit as u explained, but he would start being overwhelmed in the mid fight, and would be defeated then or early in the late fight imo.

[@RobTerra]

Thanks for checking out the video!

[@ieatmyveggiez5029]

@@RobTerraRevan has scaling relativity to Vitiate b/c of the events in SOR. Revan became more of an entity/anomaly in the force and was capable of taking on the strongest strike team in the old republic

[@wanderingshade8383]

I actually disagree on your opinion for the skill gap between Revan and Plagueis for Lightsaber Combat. Plagueis had deep knowledge of all 7 lightsaber forms, but I wouldn't say true mastery, and that's mostly due to experience. Most of Plagueis's life-or-death fights were not lightsaber duels, with his duel against Venamis as the obvious exception. And he didn't overcome Venamis through genius lightsaber skill, but instead greater mastery of the force. Without his marionette technique, he could not surpass Venamis in lightsaber combat. And how many true lightsaber duels did Plagueis get into after killing Venamis? None. Only practice. Revan on the other hand had THOUSANDS of life-or-death fights, many of them involving lightsabers. Malak is a far more impressive individual to defeat than Venamis. And that experience in dueling, even if Plagueis has greater knowledge of the 7 forms (which I believe), means Revan's developed skill should be greater, even if only by a slight margin. Admittedly, I do agree that Plagueis's passive approach would be effective against Revan. But Plagueis tends not to mix his force abilities as fluidly as Revan does into lightsaber combat, so that balances out imo.

[@TinyTorah]

So… Plagueis’ master, Tenebrous was a noted lightsaber combat connoisseur. I find it highly unlikely he didn’t make Plagueis a master-level duelist in all 7 forms. Furthermore, we have a plentiful amount of sources indirectly and directly placing Sidious as one of the greatest duelists of all time. How do you think Sidious got to be so skilled??? Maybe-and I’m just spitballing here-his master, Plagueis, had something to do with Sidious being so good. 🤷‍♂️ “Marionette technique”? I’m always bothered when people can’t decipher between when authors are using colorful language, and being literal. All that passage was doing was describing how Plagueis sunk into Soresu and let the Force guide his actions while he allowed himself to be more passive. This also allowed him to expend less mental energy on actively fighting Venamis, freeing him up to better recognize an opening he could capitalize on. It’s strange: you’re not the first I’ve seen say that Plagueis beat Venamis through The Force and not through lightsaber skill. Thing is, depending on what you and others mean by that, you’re objectively wrong. I literally just double-checked the passage, and if you or others are meaning that Plagueis bested Venamis through ACTIVE use of The Force, yeah, you’re empirically incorrect. Plagueis absolutely beat Venamis with his lightsaber. However, if you and others are referring to PASSIVE uses of The Force like force augmentation, then yes, one could argue that’s how Plagueis beat Venamis. The whole ACTUAL combat experience argument has and will always be hilariously invalid. 😂 The simple counter to it is: Sidious. Dude had barely any actual duels-especially with someone of comparable skill and power-prior to RotS. So no, Revan is not magically>Plagueis in the lightsaber just because he has more actual combat experience. (That said, just to put it out there, I don’t think Plagueis whoops Revan or anything. I think Revan and Plagueis would be quite comparable in lightsaber skill, and I actually think Revan would be the most likely overall winner in this.) We have nothing on Venamis other than he was a challenge for Plagueis at the time of their fight. We know he caps at being under Tenebrous, but I don’t think one can confidently argue Malak>Tenebrous. So to assume Malak>>>Venamis is, ultimately, baseless.

[@wanderingshade8383]

@@TinyTorah You make some very solid arguments. I will admit, its been a long time since I read Darth Plageuis and I don't have the book anymore to go and check that passage again, but when I referred to the "marionette technique" I meant that how Plageuis ultimately beat Venamis was through greater physical amplification, not greater technical skill with the lightsaber. In fact, that's how Palpatine fought as well, greater physical amplification than his opponent combined with a highly offensive technique that can outpace most duelists, with the exceptions being individuals who can match said physical enhancement (Mace through Vaapad, Yoda, Dark Empire Luke with assistance from Leia), at which point the tables turn on him. Palpatine lost all of those duels, in terms of lightsaber combat (Yes, Yoda fled the scene but that was well after he had disarmed Palpatine of his lightsaber and got into a force duel instead, one that resulted in a stalemate. And yes, you can argue that Palpatine intentionally lost against Mace to turn Anakin, but look at his expression in that fight, he was for sure seriously trying to kill Mace lol). Now, the argument that you make which holds the most water is with Palpatine's own developed skill. Yes, that was achieved through almost pure training not experience, but in terms of skill Palpatine was not the greatest lightsaber duelist of his day. He could fight the greatest, but he could not best them. Plageuis and Palpatine had great training. Revan had great training *and* great experience. "The greatest fencer in the world could be beat by a bar-room brawler who knows nothing of precision and everything about ending a fight quickly." Love that quote. In the end, I agree with you that Revan does have a skill advantage, but its not a major one.

[@TinyTorah]

@@wanderingshade8383 -Gotcha. Though, I still think it could be argued Plagueis bested Venamis through superior skill. In fact, I think it’d be rather hard to argue against that. Also, sorry to hear you no longer have a copy; it’s one of the best Star Wars books IMO. -Correct, Sidious did lose all 3 of those duels, again, in regards to lightsaber combat, but only 1 of those 3 was legitimate: Yoda. Mace and Sids were evenly matched, until Anakin showed up, creating a shatterpoint with which Mace was able to take advantage of. That is literally what’s expressed in the RotS Novelization. And against Luke in DE, there was barely any time between their 2 duels, and Sids schooled Luke in their first duel. So the only main reason why Luke was able to go from THAT, to besting Sids was due to Leia’s aid in the form of Force Harmony. -I don’t think it matters that Sidious wasn’t quite as good of a duelist as, say, Yoda, when Yoda is consistently depicted as the best Jedi up until that point (including in lightsaber mastery). 😅 -As I think I already demonstrated in my past comment, the ‘actual combat experience’ argument doesn’t really hold water in the Star Wars universe, in the sense that it doesn’t account for that much. In other words, Revan’s greater combat experience compared to Plagueis is, at best, still negligible. -Did I say I have Revan>Plagueis in skill? I don’t think I did. I said I had Revan beating Plagueis, but I never attributed that to being due to greater skill…

[@zacharyo3824]

I cant agree on the ending since although Plagueous has good tactics in battle I feel Reven would find a way since he has more skill in my opinion and his force abilities would have more of an impact but you made a pretty good case for plagueous.

[@Troy211]

I have to disagree with you when it comes to Reven’s blade work. He comes from a time when dueling was an often occurrence. Unlike Plagueis who had one real lightsaber duel and only practiced against his master and droids.

[@darthmorgoththesecond9990]

Oh wow it’s been a while

[@jamesthompson5287]

No time stamps 😅

[@Warrior-Of-Virtue]

Regarding Revan's armor, it was likely made of beskar, given its Mandalorian astetic, which _can_ protect against lightsaber strikes. There's nothing in the lore to confirm this but logic dictates that the moment Revan learned that there were Mandalorians wearing armor that could reliably protect against lightsabers, his pragmatism would demand that he get a beskar suit of his own. Honor or pride be d***ed. And he would have had ample opportunity to acquire beskar armor components over the course of the Mandalorian Wars.

[@Excalis3344]

a very good analysis but there is now way Revan would lose to Plagueis. Foundry revan can casually pull meteors out of space.

[@daveroe4961]

Galen Marek Vs Jerec?

[@drakethesnek6429]

"I've been looking forward to this." But putting revan's skills with a lightsaber on par with maul? That's insulting 😔 😟 🙁

[@jeremyleonjonas7657]

Personally I'd see this in a similar light to EvanNovas Mace vs Caedus fight. Revan IMO is a better swordsman, but Plagueis has an advantage in physical capabilities and force powers, giving him the overall advantage and victory.

[@TinyTorah]

Caedus vs. Mace was an incredibly one-sided fight in Caedus’ favor. Conversely, I think this match-up is decently close.

[@jshaw3793]

Revan ironic Precursor of rule of two 😂

[@mc_rysiek5277]

You've presented nothing to suggest Plagueis is a better swordsman than Revan. You've completely glossed over Revan's feats, accolades, and experience. 1:06:51 You're using an example of Bastila pushing a ridiculously weaker version of Revan (when she also had an entire strike team on her side) than the one being discussed here? Flawless logic.

[@TinyTorah]

Bastila never fought Revan with a strike team. You thinking of Satele?

[@adamjones9263]

I do love Revan Fanboys whom absolutely will not accept that he isnt the strongest being. Revan at his peak power attempted to kill Vitiate before he returned to full power.. and yes it takes a few jedi to defeat him but it doesnt make Revan God Tier. Plagueis, Sidious, Krayt, Jacen Solo, Luke Skywalker...would all stomp Revan

[@RVD20012]

Really enjoyed your video a little constructive criticism maybe slow down when narrating it sounds like holding down the fast forward but look forward to checking more of your content

[@RobTerra]

Hahah something I’ve tried to work on since day one still a work in progress :)

[@RVD20012]

@RobTerra yeah I have adhd my self teachers used to have to tell me to breathe so I understand that it's not so simple I look forward to seeing your take on the battles I just subbed too

[@Supreme0757]

22:00 39:35

[@Mcklazie]

Great video, however I disagree with the outcome

[@djb9267]

Plagueis would easily win, due to the rule of two. Bane surpassed everyone before him. "Darth bane had gained more knowledge and mastery of sith techniques and Power than anyone who had come before him." Taken from Star wars fact file remake number 22. Every sith Generation grows stronger than the last. "Ultimately, bane's Plan Produced more powerful sith lords with every Generation." Taken from Star wars force and destiny. "For a Millennium, the sith maintained the order in secrecy, passing down their evil heritage. As they gained knowledge of the dark side of the force, their powers increased with each Generation. " Taken from Star wars episode 1 scrapbook "For a thousand years we continued to follow bane's rule of two, existing in the shadows, biding our time, growing in power, feeding our hatred." Taken from Star wars insider number 88: heritage of the sith. With these statements, the winner is crystal clear. Darth plagueis would easily win.

[@StarWarsDecrypted]

Indeed, Fact Files also emphasise how Bane wields the power of the ancient Sith too, along with Bane of the Sith where Bane absorbs all of Freedon Nadds collective Ancient Sith power on Dxun

[@alsimmonshellspawn6021]

​@Vaelias bane on surpassed the banite era sith but some of pre revan ancient sith lords were far more powerful than bane as Karnes murr was more powerful than krayt reborn who was way more powerful than bane and exar kun was massively more powerful than Karnes murr

[@StarWarsDecrypted]

@@alsimmonshellspawn6021 Karness Muur only rivals Krayt because he has access to the darkness of Krayts time, while I don’t doubt that Kun was stronger than a living Muur at the time of the Exiles, but Muur in Legacy has been growing in power for about 5000 years since he was below Kun

[@alsimmonshellspawn6021]

@@StarWarsDecrypted nope because it's confirmed that Karnes murr was more powerful alive than as a spirit also murr was more powerful than krayt because he was that powerful not because of the "darkness of that time" also tom veich confirmed on his Twitter account before he passed away that alive exar kun was far more powerful than his spirit version which became an all powerful dark side entity without the need of a body coil but because of the 3000 jedi wall of light exar kun spirit was weakened drained and depleted of his energy reserves, even though he grew darker and stronger in his 4000 years of isolation

[@StarWarsDecrypted]

@@alsimmonshellspawn6021 The quote that talks about Muur being stronger when alive is because he has a body to actually do something and use his power when he’s alive, in the talisman he needs a force bond with somebody to transmute his power , It was my friend who got all those comments from Veitch I know all of that very well, Exar Kun indeed was more powerful when alive, but Exar Kuns spirit isn’t Muurs spirit, Muur is trapped in the Talisman he’s not in Chaos like Kun, he’s active the whole time growing in power.

[@KumaoftheForest]

Revan vs Exar Kun Galen Marek vs Plagueis Zannah vs Plagueis Malek vs Obi wan Maul vs Zannah Galen Marek vs Zannah Plo Koon vs Galen Marek

[@lapplandkun9273]

Revan Plagueis Plagueis Obi Wan Zannah Zannah Koon

[@Wes_Bradley-Taubner]

Revan Plagueis Plagueis Kenobi Zannah Galen. Yes Zannah's sorcery would fvck him up, but she takes a while to use this power, which gives the more skilled and powerful Galen enough time to kill her before that happens. Galen

[@StarWarsDecrypted]

Fun match up, I think it becomes immediately apparent who the victor is however, when writing the Plagueis Novel Luceno is constantly giving Plageuis “most powerful ever” lines and even explicitly ties Vitiate into that, and of course Revan is weaker than Vitiate

[@alsimmonshellspawn6021]

That was debunked as plagueis in the same book say that freedon nadd naga sadow marka ragnos and exar kun were far more powerful than he was and that he didn't as much knowledge as them

[@StarWarsDecrypted]

@@alsimmonshellspawn6021 That’s not true, not once does Plagueis say that in the novel, you’ve been watching too much Star Wars KZbin lol, early novel he says the ancients had abilities he hasn’t figured out yet, that that doesn’t negate them being weaker, they just knew secrets that had been lost, late novel Plageuis literally says there is no way any Sith prior to him was more powerful and he’s certain of it, Ancients > Plagueis is based on a misunderstanding of the Plagueis novel Also where and for what reason was what I mentioned in the above comment ‘debunked’?

[@alsimmonshellspawn6021]

@@StarWarsDecrypted still exar kun Karnes murr and marka ragnos would easily destroy plagueis, you clearly haven't done enough research about the ancient sith lords power scaling, stop being a biased prequel fanboy

[@StarWarsDecrypted]

@@alsimmonshellspawn6021 I came from a strong ancients bias I’m not just fanboying over the PT, what do you mean by research?? Do you mean watching KZbin videos ? Or going through the novels taking notes for every single line… I do the latter every day, I think Plagueis is stronger for far more reason than just fanboying him. Marka Ragnos loses to Jaden Korr, Spirit Kun gets beaten by a Luke who 11 years later is still weaker than Callista Ming, a Jedi Padawan who was below Ahsoka in “Clone Wars No Prisoners” Karness Muur is also mentally dominated by Celeste for centuries, who is just a big standard Knight of her Era

[@TinyTorah]

@@StarWarsDecryptedyou lost all credibility when you said, hilariously reductively, that Marka Ragnos lost to Jaden Korr. I implore you to apply context far, FAR more than it seems you currently do.

[@scerkann3966]

Plagues scales above vitate in force power so he is definitely more powerful than Revan

[@ATalesTruth-]

Plagues doesn’t based on the simple fact he didn’t even know how to be immortal vitate did even without a body

[@TinyTorah]

I’ve literally never heard anyone say Plagueis>Vitiate, and for damn good reason. 😅

[@scerkann3966]

@@ATalesTruth- vitate wasn't truly immortal and plagueis got alot closer than he did

[@scerkann3966]

@@TinyTorah it doesn't matter if you think that it's a canonical facts that the rot sith Lords scale over ancient sith like vitate. "Plagueis was the most powerful sith lord who ever lived" - Darth plagueis, novel synopsis

[@ATalesTruth-]

@@TinyTorahfeats over statement’s especially when it comes to Star Wars GL contradicted himself a lot and in all forms of lore every sith overhypes themselves as the most powerful ever

[@Starwarsdude8221991]

No we disagree on the ending of this fight experience trumps all

[@Wes_Bradley-Taubner]

If experience was the only thing that matters in a fight, then how did Knightfall Vader beat Cin Dralig?

[@TinyTorah]

Yeah, the experience argument simply rarely holds any water in the Star Wars universe. Sids is the perfect counterexample. He had far less experience than Maul and Savage; Saesee Tiin, Agen Kolar, and Kit Fisto; and especially Mace and Yoda. However, he schooled all of them, save Mace and Yoda, whom he still performed amazingly against.

[@KR15nAK]

One who masters only the dark overcomes one who has mastered the light and the dark? A tactician and swordsman who defeated Mandalar the Conquerer in single combat, looses to a shadow master? Yeah, OK. Enjoy your little delusional fantasy. 😂😂😂😂

[@Wes_Bradley-Taubner]

I think Revan wins, but knowing both sides of the force isn't an instant win. Revan couldn't beat Vitiate when they fought, despite knowing both sides. Also, Plagueis negs Manadalore the Ultimate

[@TinyTorah]

Your comment here is, ironically, delusional. Little do you know, your comment really just tells people who ACTUALLY know their Star Wars and have actually read 1st-hand sources, that you don’t know what you’re talking about. 😅

[@cobracommander3634]

Lol revan kills poor plagueis, mind you I love darth plagueis, I like him more then revan. But one is way more combat oriented than the other.

[@F3AN0RXINFERN0]

plaguies is more powerful though so I have him winning this

[@TinyTorah]

Revan was far more combat-oriented than Vitiate, and that didn’t work out well for him. 🤷‍♂️ Not saying Plagueis~Vitiate. Just saying your reasoning for placing Revan>Plagueis is pretty poor.

[@cobracommander3634]

You kinda disproved part of your own point, but to make something very clear. In a lightsaber fight revan would likely dominate him. So plagueis only shot really is his force powers and, I'm not convinced he would catch revan slipping enough to come out on top. If there was a more significant power gap then yes, but in my opinion the power gap isn't big enough for me to believe plagueis would win. As I said one of these people is way more combat oriented.

[@F3AN0RXINFERN0]

@@cobracommander3634 it is marginally massive enough. All plaguies needs to do to defeat revan is handwave and the fights over.

[@alsimmonshellspawn6021]

Redo your exar kun vs mace windu video because you lowballed exar kun massively, exar kun was far more powerful in the force and more skilled than mace windu with the lightsaber as well more knowledged

[@wrennndogg9691]

If you wouldn't repeat yourself 25 times the video will only be 15 minutes long are you really trying to make the content that long buddy or unable to carry a thought from 10 minutes ago

[@michaelbowden255]

It only took one man to kill plagues took a whole army to kill revan at that point come on let’s be serious

[@Wes_Bradley-Taubner]

That man was Darth freaking Sidious, and he did it while Plgaueis was drunk and barely conscious. And do keep in mind that it took an army to beat SoR Revan, whereas this video uses Foundry Revan

[@DropkickNation]

He is ALIVE! 😂 We missed you, Rob. Welcome back.