FX Loop Theory: Where, When, and Why to Use Them

Today, we’re demystifying FX Loops. I’ll show you some of my best practices when it comes to using an FX Loop, how to tell if your FX Loop is a tone-sucker, and how to remedy a sub-par FX Loop! Our industry doesn’t have a standard when it comes to FX Loops, so it’s crucial that you know exactly what you’re getting into when plugging into your amp’s FX Loop!
FX LOOP BUFFERS (turn your passive FX Loop into an active one)
Vertex Boost MKII: bit.ly/3fIRxQa
Kleinulator: therigdr.com/products/the-kle...
Fuchs Plush FX Loop Buffer: www.adorama.com/pftubefxloop....
MANUFACTURERS WITH GREAT FX LOOPS
Rivera: www.rivera.com
Mesa Boogie: www.mesaboogie.com
Suhr: www.suhr.com
Fuchs: fuchsaudiotechnology.com
Friedman: friedmanamplification.com
Custom Audio: bit.ly/3fNZ2p4
TABLE OF CONTENTS
00:00 Introduction
00:16 What is an FX Loop?
00:56 Different Types of FX Loops
03:00 Not All FX Loops are Equal
06:26 What Makes a Great FX Loop?
07:27 What Pedals Should Go in a FX Loop?
09:28 What If my FX Loop Sucks?
10:26 What are the Drawbacks?
11:42 What are the Conclusions Here?
13:55 Outro
⬇️Private Tone Consulting from the Rig Dr. ⬇️
therigdr.com/collections/all/...
🔽Buy our Pedals/Pedalboard Materials🔽
Zip Ties: www.therigdr.com/collections/...
Tie-down Mounts: www.therigdr.com/collections/...
Velcro: www.therigdr.com/collections/...
Pedalboard Patch Cables: www.therigdr.com/products/pat...
Instrument Cables: www.therigdr.com/products/gui...
Pedalboards: www.vertexeffects.com/store#!...
VERTEX Pedals: vertexeffects.com/store
⬇ DIY BUFFER INTERFACE DIAGRAMS, TEMPLATES, & MATERIALS ⬇
Mono - vertexeffects.com/diy-buffer-...
Mono w/Tuner Out - vertexeffects.com/diy-buffer-...
Mono w/Splitter - www.vertexeffects.com/diy-buf...
Mono w/Audition Loop - vertexeffects.com/diy-buffer-...
4 Cable Method (FX Loop) - vertexeffects.com/diy-buffer-...
Wet/Dry - vertexeffects.com/diy-buffer-...
Stereo - vertexeffects.com/diy-buffer-...
🔻 //rig consulting//🔻
therigdr.com/collections/all/...
🔈 //podcast//🔈
Apple: apple.co/36dSQzK
Spotify: spoti.fi/2WGLku8
⬇ RECOMMENDED MATERIALS ⬇
some urls below contain affiliate links
//buffers//
Vertex DIY Buffers - vertexeffects.com/diy-buffer
Mesa Boogie High-Wire (dual buffer) - bit.ly/2lZwS0s
TC Bonafide Buffer (x2 input + output) - amzn.to/2vrTSug
Truetone Buffer (x2 input + output) - amzn.to/2NLDA8l
//power supply//
CIOKS 7 - amzn.to/3d4qOty
CIOKS 8 - amzn.to/2zW5YOn
CIOKS 4 - amzn.to/33jWAOZ
Strymon Zuma - amzn.to/3dpZANe
Strymon Zuma R300 - amzn.to/2ZgLclt
Truetone CS6 - amzn.to/2wWLbII
Truetone CS7 - amzn.to/2x1Nf2k
Truetone CS12 - amzn.to/33rfLq3
Voodoo Lab Pedal Power 3 - amzn.to/3asqK6r
IEC Plug Covers - bit.ly/34fpGl3
//dc power cables//
2.1mm DC Power Plugs (right angle) - bit.ly/2pGqXzI
2.1mm DC Power Plugs (straight) - bit.ly/36wd1sA
Bulk Power Cables (pre made) - amzn.to/3ev1q0t
//midi//
MIDI Plugs (right angle) - bit.ly/2oKHDFG
MIDI Plugs (straight) - bit.ly/32fNNLF
MIDI Cable (bulk) - amzn.to/2tPAHWQ
//velcro//
Vertex Super Lock - therigdr.com/collections/all/...
//cable management//
Zip Ties - www.therigdr.com/products/zip...
Tie Down Mounts - www.therigdr.com/products/tie...
Tone Essentials Kit - www.therigdr.com/products/ton...
//pedalboard tools//
Soldering Iron - amzn.to/2TTdMI4
Solder (60/40) - amzn.to/2U7XhsD
Solder Dispenser - amzn.to/2GpgMpR
Octopus Arms - amzn.to/2V3O8OD
Wire Strippers (30-20 AWG) - amzn.to/2BBMI6n
Wire Strippers (20-10 AWG) - amzn.to/2EbhBR3
Wire Snips - amzn.to/2EazwqU
Vise - amzn.to/2E9eTLO
Heat Gun (embossing gun) - amzn.to/2BwGdlm
Label Maker - amzn.to/2BCBcHU
Label Maker Tape (black) - amzn.to/2Cd3CZe
Label Maker Tape (clear) - amzn.to/34piDD4
Deoxit D5 Contact Cleaner - amzn.to/2GEm4gu
Truetone Milliamp (mA) Reader - amzn.to/2F9v3VN
Tone Brush - amzn.to/2HIfze3
Upholstery Crow Bar - amzn.to/2HIOU0K
Multimeter - amzn.to/2YW9BdE
Goo Gone - amzn.to/31rGJeS
👇 // diy diagrams // 👇
DIY Power Cables: vertexeffects.com/diy-power-c...
DIY Interface: vertexeffects.com/diy-interface
DIY Buffers: vertexeffects.com/diy-buffer
#FXLoops #Guitarpedals #rigdoctor

[@VertexEffectsInc]

FX LOOP BUFFERS (turn your passive FX Loop into an active one) Vertex Boost MKII: bit.ly/3fIRxQa​ Kleinulator: www.therigdr.com/products/the...​ Fuchs Plush FX Loop Buffer: www.adorama.com/pftubefxloop....​ MANUFACTURERS WITH GREAT FX LOOPS Rivera: www.rivera.com​ Mesa Boogie: www.mesaboogie.com​ Suhr: www.suhr.com​ Fuchs: fuchsaudiotechnology.com​ Friedman: friedmanamplification.com​ Custom Audio: bit.ly/3fNZ2p4​

[@WayneMemphisMojo]

Thanks for posting these reminders ... I always learn something from your videos

[@VertexEffectsInc]

@@WayneMemphisMojo 🙏🙏🙏

[@deanaf]

Can't wait for this.

[@WayneMemphisMojo]

Very informative (as always) and cool that you have demystified what & how the FX loop works. Any chance y'all could make a short video about using a clean boost in the loop as a quasi attenuator? (Lots of talk but not much fact about doing this)

[@rocknrollguitar]

"typical all of them are gonne b serial loops" Great, now im hungry

[@davestives1509]

This is the first video that explained the fact that you don't need to use the FX loop if you're keeping the amp clean and using overdrive pedals. Thank you! That clears it up for me.

[@jacoblendzion2372]

I really appreciate you taking the time to make this video. I’m sure at some point I will understand it. That day is not today but I was able to figure out how to actually play this video which I will count as a win🤙🤘

[@gregmacklin9758]

Man , that cleared up the of the BS ive been told about this topic. My Prinston doesn't have an FX Loop because it doesn't need one. Ive had guys tell me I made a mistake buying it, evan though it sounds fantastic. You just cleared the air. If the overdrive is coming from a pedal then you don't need a loop. THANK YOU....

[@lorvin5673]

This is a great video on fx loops. No one else covers it this well that I've come across...

[@JuanArias-xr6je]

This chanel is the university of youtube pedal chanels, so good!!! Thanks

[@VertexEffectsInc]

🙏🙏🙏

[@andrewgarcia8907]

This quite literally answered all of my questions, and solved all of my problems. Thank you!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Wow! Thanks!

[@AndrewMooreLearningLicks]

Mason these videos are absolutely fantastic 👏 full of really great information and I've fixed issues with my own Big pedalboard thanks to these videos 👍🏼

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Glad to help!

[@Tulip-nature-fairy]

Super clear. Thank you. It made so much sense. Well done chaps!

[@leeanucha]

You are not just a rig dr but a rig professor. you explain very very well!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

I appreciate that!

[@cheezyridr]

subbing this channel right now! 3 things i've learned from this are 1) there's ALOT i don't know. 2) the sweet sweet sound i get from my amp, i found by happy accident. 3) i'm going to need to watch this video at least one more time to fully understand all that you laid out. if there was such a thing as a "tone course" or class, it would be highly beneficial, and you'd be a great teacher.

[@moyhennabuchanan1076]

Awesome, best FX Loop 101 vlog out there, thank you!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Glad you liked it!

[@anth1225]

Thank you so much for clearing that up for me. I set up my pedal board to run through a PA and when I experimented with my amp at home trying to use the effects loop it sounded better just running it though the amp and not through the loop. Now I feel better knowing why. Great tutorial!

[@BrookmanGuitar]

Brilliant presentation!...Thanks Mason you're my hero. Now I understand!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Glad to help!

[@Soundchain101]

Thanks, Mason. I found it helpful. Especially since I was planning surgery (converting passive loop to active) and now can consider using a outboard add-on instead.

[@NeMaAn]

Thank you for this information. I was wondering about the distortion and the loops.

[@sugatooth]

Wow, this was fantastic! Didn't realize there was so much about effects loops, thankfully the one in my amp is active even though I never thought to check for it before

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Glad it helped!

[@mattcamacho5570]

This was Excellent.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

I'm so glad you dig it!

[@hummarstraful]

Best video on the subject I've found. Thanks.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Wow, thanks!

[@zepeps]

Finally I could understand fx loop. great video

[@daxbalmeo9768]

Love this! Been using the effects loop on my Boss Katana 100 this year. Great to know more about it from the Rig Doctor!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Very cool!

[@alexmurphy5289]

This channel is so good, right to the point and very well explained.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Glad you think so!

[@michael_caz_nyc]

I Agree Alex. I've learned alot from Mason. Great source of information on this channel. oNe LovE from NYC

[@VertexEffectsInc]

@@michael_caz_nyc thanks bro!

[@Cluless02]

Excellent, pro, informative video!!

[@steveatkinson9123]

Really enjoy your show. The only thing I run through my effects loop is a noise gate / suppressor. This way my delay, reverb units are not affected by the noise gate / suppressor. I don't run a 15:29 big pedal board and have only one pedal ( overdrive ) that is a little on the noisy side. I've always run my pedals in front of the amp.

[@matthewsspecializeddetaili610]

Awesome Job! I am going to set up a consultation with you guys. Great Video!

[@l.harrison9725]

Thank U! Learned so much from your vids. ReMapping my set-ups, this info is crucial. I feel smarter now LOL

[@duaneharlick]

Great talk, Mason! I actually have an old 2 channel amp that has separate passive send/returns for the clean and OD channels. I had a Moss at Brown Note (long gone...) build me a single rack space, DOUBLE Dumble-ator device, so that I'd have one for each side of the amp. It's tube based, and works wonders with maintaining my tone.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

That's a great idea!

[@franciscohartung4406]

Killer in depth explanation, very nice

[@VertexEffectsInc]

🙏🙏🙏 thanks for watching!

[@cliffwarner7549]

I appreciate your videos and catch them when I can. As usual, there is a lot of good information here. I have a few (very) basic questions: I have an older Fender Concert amp with the buffered effects loop. I assume that is not a solid state loop, but if you would, please confirm. And I also assume, based on the video, that I should use that effects loop for time based effects, but not for my compressor, distortion and EQ pedals. Thanks again for your insightful videos!

[@helmibhs]

Very educating. Thank you Uncle Mason

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Thanks for watching!

[@SimonFlex]

Dude! This one is very nice to learn and understand your gear inside out. +1 sub!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Awesome, thank you!

[@SimonFlex]

@@VertexEffectsInc Mason, I have to tell you, this one helped me get rid of a buzz in my chain after a lo-o-ong time. Now I realy understand how's and why's, and I have a consequent preset now between gain via pedal or the IRT amp itself, and even the Swedisch chainsaw combination of amp and the HM2. For the rest very nice delay swells and reverbs and again combinations with the gain. Compression only in rare occasions, I rather play with intonation. Where and when do you use compression or can you recommand one of your clips about that topic? (boss cp-1x is the one at the start of my chain) Kind regards from Belgium

[@schmoofadoop]

Thank you Mason, this was very helpful! I have a line level passive effects loop and was looking at something like the Kleinulator but just moved my reverb/delay to the end of my chain going straight into my amp b/c I just run my amp clean anyways. i prefer this so i can plug my board into whatever and keep my tone as opposed to depending on the dirty channel from my particular amp... so ultimately you almost sold me a Kleinulator but by the end of the video you made me realize I have no need for the effects loop entirely... THANK YOU!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Sure thing!

[@personalfreedom2700]

Incredible knowledge… you may be the only person who is able to explain this logically… sounds so simple now

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Thanks so much!!!

[@me-xv6tf]

A very well spoken young man who doesn't uhhh and ummm his way s.l.o.w.l.y through the entire damn video. And he knows his shit too!! Perfect combination 👍 subscribed....

[@RicardoReolon]

Awesome video!! Good job dude!!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Thanks for watching!

[@BrandonBames]

My Revv G20 has a wonderful buffered FX loop. Seems like Orange uses nice buffered loops on some amps too; the loop on my wife's Crush Bass 50 drives a DI box like a champ!

[@neogingerfrank]

Great explanation !!!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Glad it helped!

[@AndrewLynchMusic]

Great stuff once again, Mason!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Thanks for watching!

[@ancasterguitar8171]

The education I needed 👍🤘 I run a clean amp so no loop for me. Good thing cuz my amp doesn’t have one 😄. I was thinking of adding one. You just saved me a ton of headache.

[@philfrank5601]

Great video, wish I had this knowledge back when I started!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Glad it was helpful!

[@brentled]

Thank you, very useful information.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Glad it was helpful!

[@srficarra]

I have a Elmwood Modena m60 (which is easily the best and most flexible amp I’ve ever owned in 30 years of playing) and it has a series/parallel tube buffered loop. It’s the best loop I’ve ever used cuz I love running my time based pedals blended with the dry tone. But it doesn’t have volume pots for send and return. It only has a series/parallel dry/wet pot. I usually run it about 50% wet/dry and it’s dead quiet. Thanks for the vid

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Nice! Thanks for watching!

[@j-hop91]

I appreciate your videos. You make this stuff make sense, even for a drummer like me!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Thanks for watching!

[@farmboy6218]

Love your channel. I have one critique. Please get rid of the annoying "pop" sounds. Please! It distracts from what your saying and, in my situation, forces me to lower the volume because the "pop" volume is louder than your voice.

[@patrickcarroll1754]

Excellent! Can't wait

[@VertexEffectsInc]

🙏🙏🙏

[@mitskoski]

Great video! I learned new things!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Glad it was helpful!

[@nabrute]

I have a MXR micro amp in my effects loop, great for a volume boost without adding any drive, also I like tremolo and chorus in the loop but phaser in the front, I have one reverb in the loop and a crazy hall reverb in the front. Do whatever you want really, I tried like 20 combos before I found what I wanted.

[@imalright2837]

Thanks Doc I feel better already

[@VertexEffectsInc]

🥳🥳🥳🙏🙏🙏

[@Bassguitarist1985]

An amazing video! You should really do a video compare of a passive effects loop and long cables versus an amplifier with an active buffered loop and the same long cable setup. Also dive more into the Klein-ulator. I don't see many KZbin videos about it. I just bought one and it's solved my tube amp buzzing issue. I'll be doing a video on that soon.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Good call...would be good to see how much it impacts the tone.

[@Bassguitarist1985]

@@VertexEffectsInc agreed. My Peavey VB-2 has the same flaw as the ValveKing amps where there is a buzz with the master vume at 0 or 5, but all the way up at 10. It is because since there is no buffer in the loop, those high impedance resistors in it couple with the volume pot and pickup stray noise. Jumpering the loop bypasses those resistors and eliminates the noise. The Kleinulator does the same by loading down the loop to low impedance eliminating the noise.

[@chrisgill1950]

What do you think about using a noise gate thru the loop? Wouldn’t that cut down on the loud hiss on dirty channels?

[@paolomoscatelli]

SUPERB TEACHER. New sub here. Congratulations on a great job

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Welcome aboard!

[@awwal7375]

I am still in the add preview but this channel is the greatest about pedalstuff.😂😍

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Wow, thanks!

[@dylanwalker9184]

In the case that you wanna run your modulation pedals with your amp derived distortion, would you want those in the fx loop?

[@ZosAos]

Nice video. Slightly unrelated -I have a question regarding using a rackmount effects unit, in conjunction with pedals. With the set up of the pedals and rackmount before the amp, to reduce potential pedal noise (hum) would it be better to run the pedals in front of the rackmount or after it?

[@graywatkin8510]

Top review from top man.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Much appreciated

[@rustymcaron5379]

Hi, thanks for this another useful video! As you know some of the marshall's combos have no reverb, i'm about to buy a marshall origin 20 combo, it has the fx loop, i do use some distortions (fuzz, ts9 or marshall jackhammer) but i would like to use the saturation of the amp itself... so I would like to ask you what you suggest for this circumstance: do you think that it is better poot on fx loop the reverb (and delay) o just follow the pedal board chain? thanks again, cheers

[@TheSleepArtist]

Great info! Thanks for the effort

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Thanks for watching! Hope we earned your sub!

[@TheSleepArtist]

Definitely

[@kukusooie]

Every video on this channel is suuuper informative and helpful, but this one in particular was a lifesaver. Thanks for the awesome video! It would be sick if you could get your hands on a fender engine room and shed some light on its pros and cons. 12 outputs at 500ma at $250 seems amazing

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Thanks for watching. I reached out to Fender, no response.

[@kukusooie]

With their history of appreciating vintage, they’re probably on windows 98 and have not had a chance to respond. Lol. Hopefully they reach out soon

[@NisGaarde]

Great content Mason.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Thanks for watching!

[@mightyluv]

Great vid, thanks. I’ve got a Roland BC-60 with send/return controls on the loop, I’m looking forward to some experimenting.

[@HAHb-zc2dp]

Have you read the.manual for the unit?

[@mightyluv]

@@HAHb-zc2dp I read it quite a while ago, just after buying the amp. I’ve been plugging pedals in directly to the front, but I’m wanting more control and dimension.

[@ALBERTOGARCIA-nk9bo]

Hello Mason. I'll never get tired to thank for your videos. I would like to make a very important question for me. If I want to use: compressor (for limiting peaks of my Hot Rod Deville), graphic Eq, reverb, delays, volume box and a booster, in what order should I place them? Thanks in advance

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Watch our advanced signal path video

[@Cpt_Adama]

Wow great presentation, I've been schooled. 😁

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Thanks for watching!

[@1981ASURay]

I'm putting together a new setup strictly for home use -- 10' cable from guitar into polytune w/ buffer, a bunch of true bypass pedals, Bonafide output buffer to pre-amp, 10' cable from FX send to a multi-effect pedal (used just for modulation/time) and a looper, 10' cable back to return (I use Ernie Ball cables, mostly). My home amp (Orange OR-15) has a 12AT7 buffered FX loop. Is this sufficient buffering for that part of the signal chain, or should I add additional buffering? If the latter, where should that buffer go?

[@ftworthtexan9082]

Outstanding presentation!!! My quest to go from a digital effects processor (GNX 3) to stomp boxes had me doing research prior to purchasing any effects boxes. It turns out my Marshall AVT 275's effects loop is set up to run in parallel. My first three stomp boxes that I am wanting to purchase are a phaser and chorus in front of the amp and an echoplex in the loop. But looking at the echoplex and other delay pedals there doesn't seem to be a sensitivity knob. There is an effects loop "mix " knob on the front of the amp, which according to the manual is used to "increase the amount of effect you hear"..... I just wonder if I'm wasting my money on the echoplex or any pedal that I decide to put in the loop without it having a sensitivity knob..... I am already considering adding reverb to the loop chain after this initial set up. Thank you again for your great channel.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Typically with a parallel fx loop you'll run the wet effects in the loop 100% wet and then mix that with the dry signal with some sort of blend control on the amp itself.

[@saspencer1992]

How familiar are you with the HX Stomp effects loop? I want to run my drives in it so I can put the expression in front of them for pitch shifters, vol, and wah.

[@JeySin83]

Hi Mason, as always your videos are worth every second! I'd like to ask a question hoping that you can help me! I bought a 40w point to point tube amp second hand ( a D'Angelo one) that has an effects loop with a pot on the back; the person who sold me it said a couple of strange things about the loop in this amp: it's an active one ( ok); It doesn't sit between preamp and power amp but it is a part of the preamp ( what? Is this possible?); it's not meant to be used with pedals but just with "always on" effects like delays and reverbs ( it could make sense); it's an unusual fx loop because it runs in series but sometimes switches to parallel and the other way around ( what???). I tried a delay through it and it was fine except for the "popping" sound when engaging or disengaging ( solved with a dc filter). I also tried to jump it with a patch cable and the knob acts like some sort of master volume or volume box, from zero to full, ( even with delays in the loop it doesn'control the mix of the effect but still the volume). I've also tried a volume box in the loop, the jhs little black box, and the sound is as quite identical as the jumped loop.I'll appreciate to know what you think about it ( obviously up to where is possible without seeing the amp or the schematics!). Thanks a lot🙏

[@davidwellman7080]

What if your using some gain from the amp for your clean sound. I have a Fender hotrod Deluxe tube amp. I like using just a touch of gain with my clean sound?

[@bross63]

I have a Mesa Boogie Fillmore 50 head. It has a buffered/active effects loop, so can I assume that the 20’ cable run from the effects loop Send TO my pedal board (delay and reverb only with other effects on the front end rather than in the loop)? If so, do I still need a buffer after the reverb (last time based effect) before the 20’ cable going back to the loop return on my amp? Even with a buffered pedal I assume a quality buffer will give me better results than just trusting the pedal’s buffer. This is a great video! Your info is very comprehensive and well presented. Well done! Thanks!!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Depends on the output impedance of the last pedal in the loop. 100 ohm would be ideal.

[@pathaynes7095]

Bass Player, I use an ashley bp-41 preamp racked with my tuner and wireless unit running into a QSC powerlite power amp. I want distortion and compression. Suggestions? Also have a Palmer pocket amp portable bass preamp.

[@LykaonMetalMusic]

Great Video!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

🙏🙏🙏 thanks for watching!!!

[@alexvillaluna22]

Great explanation

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Glad it was helpful!

[@one1sol]

Great vid! I run a Line 6 HXFX with a 2004 JCM 2000 DSL 50 and I use its effects loop with 4cm. Each of the 4 cables is 22' long. I definitely experience tone loss using the HXFX into the effects loop. Is the Kleinulator what I need to correct this? I LOVE my amp and the HXFX on their own, but, together they are more rrama than the Kardashians. Thanks for your advice!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

It will turn that into an active loop with the right buffering.

[@jay_white_music]

do you recommend putting tremolo pedals in the effects loop?

[@Roddo731]

Great video as usual Mason I’ve been using FX lives for years and I agree there’s good ones bad ones and maybe stuff in between in the better amps I’ve had to have better effects loops… But what about those of us who predominantly play on a worship band and have to go direct… Not using an amplifier at all. Are used to use a two notes Le-Clean which had a effects loop build in no questioning how good it was but it seemed good but you couldn’t control any kind of levels on it so I don’t know… Now I’m acoustic rig I use a Radial Tonebone PZ Pre, seems to be a really good quality effects loop. Now for my electric rig the brains of it is a Stroman iridium… No effects loop not sure how to handle that

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Watch our video with Mitch Gallagher at Sweetwater on their channel on building an ampless rig. Lots of good info :)

[@TheAustinGuy]

What about using a fractal fm3 in the effects loop? Should I still buffer? Turn it into an active fx loop?

[@pascaladesina]

wow. I get it now. Thanks doc!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

👍👍👍

[@PatatoKeftes]

Great vid.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

🙏🙏🙏

[@squirelova1815]

Ooh Boy....NOTHING is as ever "simple" as it may seem. Thank You for the Warnings Sir.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

You are very welcome

[@phatnecks8026]

Great video! Got me thinking a lot about my FX loop. I don't know much about this topic but I find it fascinating. I also have not looked at my amps schematics. But I assumed that if I am on the gain channel ... my drive control (pot) is before the pre amp out (send) and the master volume is after the send just before the power amp section. So would that not function the same as using a buffered FX loop or am I just way out in left field?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

There's no standard to where these volume controls are on the amplifier. The Master volumes can be in different places in the signal path depending on the design. In some cases you can use your amp controls to compensate for make up gain or loss in the loop, but it's still a compromise and you have to set your amp level in a way that optimizes the loop but not necessarily the distortion you want or the output you want. All things being equal, you want a buffered effects loop if you're going to use wet effects in the loop.

[@phatnecks8026]

@@VertexEffectsInc Thank you for the clarification. Makes sense.

[@jmd76family]

JHS pedals brought up a great idea about using a volume pedal in effects loop to crank the preamp but control loudness!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

I wish he'd talked about impedance though. You need to have the right volume pedal to work properly here or it won't work that great.

[@jmd76family]

@@VertexEffectsInc never thought of that. Thanks for pointing out!

[@user-hx8nr4fp6y]

hi, grate job. i need advice. i have TRIO+ with fx send and fx return. what is the recomanded way to connect to the chine board?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

responded.

[@ReverendHellbilly]

I think i need to watch this.cheers 👍

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Yessir

[@ReverendHellbilly]

Thanks buddy.Im done w that.cheers

[@TheTripolix]

Hey, awesome Video. I am planning on getting a Marshall SV20H. Judging from the price and the information given in the video it seems like that this amp does a passive loop. Does anynoe has any experience with that? Also i am living in germany, so getting a Klein-Ulator is not that easy. Does anyone know of more good pedals for the same purpose with a more EU friendly distribution? Thanks in advance :)

[@Funkfreed]

What if I want to use my preamp pedal in my pedalboard instead. Should I plug my whole pedalboard in the return only?

[@PTgoat]

Thanks. Hopefully this can help me with my setup for using my Headrush via 4 cable method into my EVH 5150 IIIS. I am having a heck of a time keeping my Headrush from negatively coloring the tone of my amplifier. I think it has a lot to do with the levels in the send/return on my HR EFX Loop. Just cannot find a happy medium.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

May have to do with the effects loop itself, nothing to do with the Headrush.

[@danmorrison8746]

You mention how a lot of modulation effects should be in front of the preamp and I totally agree for phase and univibes and chorus but I still prefer flange in the loop post the preamp stage. Sometimes I'll put a chorus there too, but usually leave that out front.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

I think about a lot of the classical sounds that we base our preference off of for effects like chorus, Flange, etc. Guys like EVH, Andy Summers, The Cure, etc. All those were in front of an amplifier. It's preferential, no "Right Way" but I typically recognize those effects more in that position and generally they're used more clean than dirty anyway.

[@tarkett8529]

@@VertexEffectsInc except Cobain used chorus straight in front of a dirty amp and as you said EVH used everything into a cranked Marshall, people think too much about it instead of just going with their ears. Keep up the good work demystifying this stuff for people just getting into it, there’s a lot of people on forums who have opinions without basis.

[@jarediledundee]

I have a Quilter Superblock US. But I cannot find info on if the effects loop is buffered or active..do you know? Additionally, what do you think about me putting the Superblock on my pedal board and running a speaker cable to my cabinet? Does that need a buffer? I wanted everything in one place and am trying to avoid power cable spaghetti. Finally, THANK YOU for all of this incredible content. We're lucky to have access to your incredible expertise-very grateful.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Not sure how they're doing it. Maybe email them. Also, since it's pedalboard based it may not be that much of a problem anyway since the cables are so short.

[@rickbrown2154]

Really makes a lot of sence

[@jamesbond4633]

Excellent information!!!!! I have a Fender Twin Reverb and a Marshall 410. So now you have clarified why things can sound good or bad. So for the Fender I don't use the effects loop which is great. But pedal order is still important. I have to experiment with my Marshall. I have the Echo Plex Delay and Hall of Fame pedals on the Effects loop. In front of the amp they just cut everything out. However I have an Electric Mistress Flanger and Chorus combo pedal that sounds ok in the loop but I should try in front of the amp. I guess if it was good enough for Eddie it should be good for me?!!!!!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

There are preferential difference here. Some like Mod in the loop...I don't personally. When I think about guys like Andy Summers and their EHX Electric Mistress sound I think "why do it any different"???

[@jamesbond4633]

@@VertexEffectsInc Wow...I just experimented with my Electric Mistress Flanger/Chorus pedal in front of the amp. What a difference!!!! Yeah ...it definitely gives me the Andy Summers sound even though I have a Japanese Strat!!!!! Thanks for the information...I am now jamming out on Roxanne and Message in a Bottle much better!!!!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

@@jamesbond4633 Perfect!

[@robertmailloux2793]

Hello! You are right about Boss pedals.I have just taken off 3 of them off my pedalboard and my tone came back. It seems the only one working fine in front of the amp and in the effects loop are the Waza Craft type.I guess they have good buffer 1M/100K.Same as the EQ Devices. By plugging and unplugging the return of the effects loop for comparison gave me a proof of what Boss pedals can do to a guitar tone.Too many will suck tone.They were replaced by EQ Devices.. It seems now they all talk to one and other properly on the pedalboard. Thx and have a good life!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

The Waza's seem to have the same impedances as does the Earthquaker. Remember it should be 100 ohms, not 100K ohms (100,000).

[@BOLTACORE]

Great info and thanks I needed to hear this. I just acquired my dream tube amp (bogner uberschall) i love the clean and dirty channel of it but damn the effects loops sounds terrible "tone sucked, muddy, compressed and noisy", running it in a 4cm every cable 15ft with headrush gigboard processor. It's a series loop with a send out level knob in the back and when using the fx loop your volume channels acts as the fx send level meaning it's almost impossible running it loud without getting the signal too hot 🔥, I find the kleinulator quite promising . Do you have any experience with loops such this one, do you think the kleinulator or anything else could potentially help this situation 🥲 Thanks.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Kleinulator is the move

[@colomboy86]

Hey! Just watched this. Great bits of info here. Thank you! I have a question/comment or two though... I've recently obtained a DOD Rubberneck Analog Delay pedal which has a single TRS jack FX loop running at instrument level built into the pedal (TRS to Y). I'm looking to run my board in front of a clean amp and was wondering what I should consider doing per what was mentioned in the video, as I'm currently thinking of using said FX loop to loop in, if you will, my Holy Grail nano reverb at that point of my boards signal chain. Or, if there's other effects I should run though this loop, I'd be happy to hear your thoughts on that too.

[@xdoctorblindx]

The effects loop on the delay is to add effects that only colour the delay lines (not your dry signal). It has nothing to do with how you'd run the effects loop in an amp.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Andrew...what Ezra said!

[@feicipet]

So given that you want to put time based effects after the distortion generating gain stage, what if a guitar player was trying to push for power amp distortion instead of pre amp distortion? If I were to use the FX loop in that context, wouldn't I be facing the same issue as putting a reverb in front of a distorting pre amp? Would that mean that I need to mic up the amp without the reverb and run the signal through an outboard FX unit instead? (or more practically nowadays, I'd probably be driving the power amp hard but running the speaker out into a loadbox such as a Torpedo Captor X, after which I can run the line out signal into a time-based FX unit then. Would that be your advice? Thanks!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

You can boost into the power amp, fx return, if you want to do that.

[@nazarenoscanferlato2154]

This is highly educating! I can't get enough of these videos! Question, I experience tone suck when I put my ods in the fx loop of my Line6 HX stomp. How can I fix it? Thanks!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

I'm so glad! Could be the settings inside the HX, could be how your connecting them or could be the impedances not matching up well. Do the OD's sound different run into the front of the HX?

[@nazarenoscanferlato2154]

@@VertexEffectsInc Thank you so much for the reply! I tried a few different things such as playing with the impedance in the HX, I connect the first od in the chain to the send and the last to the return all via patch cables, I should say I don't use buffers at the start or at the end, but I don't normally experience tone suck when I plug them in the amp, so yeah, te ods do sound different when in the fx loop.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

@@nazarenoscanferlato2154 I'd try a buffer first and see how it responds.

[@nazarenoscanferlato2154]

@@VertexEffectsInc I will try that! Thanks a lot! Keep up the good work! 💪💪

[@jay_white_music]

i'd like to use a buffer at the end of my effects loop but i don't have any room left on my board. if i affix the buffer to the amp and run a 20' cable from the last pedal my board into the buffer and then a 6" cable into the return of the amp, will i still get the benefits of using the buffer?

[@NicoVeraMusic4U]

Mason, I am trying to set up my reverb pedal in the FX loop in STEREO with a Return buffer but perplexed how I do that. Could you assist please? Thanks

[@waynegram8907]

Any Reasons why FX loops don't have a Bright Switch?, like on fender amps they have a bright switch.

[@mug1222]

Any help with why my return has a right and left?

[@anderoso85]

Would love to see a demo of that Klienulator. Maybe include how to incorporate it into a board with a switcher?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

You would just treat it like any 4CM set up. Any active loop buffer lives at the amp side, not pedalboard.

[@larryschmollinger5694]

Hello. I'm currently using a Bugera 120 watt Tri rec Head. For effects I'm using a Boss GT 100 effects processor. I have it hooked up throught the heads fx loop using the 4 cable method but I notice I totally lose my amps natural tone and I feel there is a great deal of tone loss. How can I combat those problems??