Veterans of the Long War - Tactics, Combos & Army Lists | Chaos Space Marines Tactica

[@Muukip]

I'd say Chaos Terminators having native hit re-rolls is more of a synergy than an anti-synergy in the same way that Gladiator Lancers are good in Space Marines because they are "Oath independent". It's very restrictive otherwise to only have buffs against one enemy unit. The stratagems often key off the Hatred-target too, so you'll probably use Terminators as more of a heavy flanking unit with Rapid Ingress that can fight well without needing buffs, while Legionaries and Chosen in the center benefit directly from the detachment rules. This suits Terminators more anyway as they can be vulnerable to damage 3 shooting like the Forgefiend if they just waddle up the middle of the table. They work best coming in from Rapid Ingress so you can guarantee what the opponent sight lines to them are, then get an easy charge off in your own movement phase after shooting. Good for achieving Capture Enemy Outpost.

[@fatarchon]

I pretty much agree with everything you're saying, a lot of folks have naysayed the 'anti synergy' but like you're saying it makes them independent of being tied to the Focus of Hatred. It's funny I used to always always skip Terminators but after giving them some test runs lately I'm starting to come around I don't think they're hyper competitive usually but they *can* be if you run them the right way / tweak the list for them Either way, you made some great points! Hopefully anyone who wasn't sure about VotLW is starting to notice their strengths

[@sean2549]

Black crusade is used for 10 man termy blobs they get 4 shots each at 12 inchs. So you should be able to max out the dev wounds every round with sustained hits and they have inbuilt rerolls. With the enhancement on a termy lord to you can fall back shoot and charge aswell. Imo the whole detachment is meant to be built around a 10x termy blob. You also can take 2 heavy flamers on them for let the galaxy burn to wipe a 20 man chaff unit then charge the tank behind it.

[@sparklespider1356]

Hey man, I’ve just been getting my CSM force to a proper 2000 points and I am loving your content, you are such a ray of warp tainted sunshine and I adore your delivery of these detatchment reviews. Keep up the good work man!

[@fatarchon]

Hell yes, just trying to spread the good word of Nurgle & Co. to all the fellow heretics out there

[@andybrown2149]

You know what this means. Its almost time for the renegades review lol

[@fatarchon]

Hahah yes it's getting very close. HOPEFULLY before the codex officially drops but... No promises

[@CalamityLues]

AWOOOOOOOOO

[@joshyjosh00]

Loving this. Finally going Black Legion after playing Salamanders in 9th. Thank you for all the info

[@danielpaoli1093]

Idk about you but I like Eager for Vengeance on the Terminator Sorcerer. Because your making that 9" Deepstrike charge into a 8", Powerfist hitting on 2s, and your token Chainfist on 3s. I don't believe you have to of fallen back to to get the +1 to hit, but if so that's fine because the biggest value is the +1 to charge against the hatred target. I would love to find an effective means to get Abaddon + Master of Execution w/ Warmaster's gift (Precision, Devastating, and +1 CP for killing a character) + 5/10 Chosen across the battlefield. Abaddon would give the 4+ Inv saves, Chosen have the Chaos Icon (to allow for Abaddon to get +1 CP from passing Dark Pacts), and more importantly the MoE will give the unit rerolls to hit if the unit is below starting strength, and reroll wounds if below half strength, and is another means for CP Regen for just in case Abaddon didn't get a 7+. I have played my fair share against World Eaters, and although WE MoE is scary because of that fights first ability, but now we have a -2CP to give him that buff as well.

[@fatarchon]

Ohoo that's a great combo actually, Sorc Term with the rr's would boost it up even further do that's just buffs on top of buffs on top of buffs hah For getting across the table, I suppose you could strat reserve? That or the trusty Rhino :)

[@danielpaoli1093]

@@fatarchon Abaddon can't go into a Rhino, and Chosen don't have Deepstrike. The best we could do is a Land Raider, or start him on table, or like you said from reserves. I tried him in a Renegade Raiders with a unit of Terminators that came in from Rapid ingress, (but to get them outta LOS they had to be pushed to 15" away) then it was 5" move + 3" advance, so a 7" charge... Which failed because I used my last CP to give Advance and Charge, and Abaddon rolled two 5s for Leadership(which I did elect to give him leadership rerolls, because it was just him and a unit of Terminators nearby, which already had the Rerolls to hits/4++)

[@fatarchon]

Oops I should've thought it through more, I meant a Rhino for the MoE + Chosen then strategic reserves for Abby, tho you could Deepstrike him if you went solo (risky biz!) Yes CP is going to be a big issue for every CSM detachment but especially these guys! That's something I think we're all getting more used to - be constantly broke lol

[@anthonywarne9751]

Abby only needs a 5+ to pass leadership and gain the CP. I think @fatarchon misspoke when he said 7+. Abby’s leadership stat is 5+ and you roll 2D6 and the result must be equal to or above the leadership stat. Then you roll the D6 and gain 1CP on a 2+.

[@M.S.G.95]

Something to watch while I'm at work, I'm a big EC fan but my second favourite is the Black Legion and hopefully this will help me learn them a bit better, thank you Fat Archon!

[@fatarchon]

Ohoo you might especially like VotLW then! I realized after posting the vid that you can combo them with EC/Lucius for DOUBLE Fights First (& toss in the Defiler for good measure). I'm going to try it out next game I think, could be redonks powerful

[@pawbentsen9506]

Damn you are spitting them out.... amazing work my guy

[@fatarchon]

I was wondering when I'd see you! Lmao, thanks brother. It's kinda crazy how much time these end up taking but it helps me learn & helps others so meh :P Appreciate how supportive you've been man. I legit wonder about ya when I get ready to post these hah

[@pawbentsen9506]

@@fatarchon for the work you do for us its the least i can do :)

[@BreakerBeat]

Tried out a 2000 point game with VotLW, and I have mixed feelings about it. Fight first, reactive move and AoC were definitely strong, and the detachment rule is also strong. The "issue" I have is honestly just the clash of what you thematically want to do and some kind of dumb overlap of rules. Abaddon SHOULD be good with Terminators, but his two most powerful abilities (4++ and hit re-roll) are already baked into Terminators. That was always a dumb anti-synergy outside this detachment. This detachment just doubles down on that issue by giving yet another wasted source of hit re-roll. And while you can use it to have hit re-roll on a different target, the absolutely biggest strength of Terminators here is fight first, but that only works against the target you used oath on. So it just felt a bit bad to often just waste effects by overlapping them. And even if you manage to use them on a different target to not "waste" anything, it does mean best case your Terminators just don't have any rules that actively support them. They just don't "overlap". At their price, I think they really need SOMETHING to buff them from the rules. Chaos Lords felt amazing. Always having AoC up is great. 5+ devastating on his hammer is amazing, especially with Legionaries for wound re-roll. That makes him into a mini-Abaddon once per game - one shotting vehicles or elite units. Also pretty good with Chosen. 10x Warp Talons rapid ingress, easy charge, back to reserve felt broken. Basically any scoring unit that isn't completely screened by tanky units will die. And you don't want to use your tanky units just to screen cheap stuff. Completely ruined my opponents scoring. Forgefiend and Venomcrawler was fine. Both are solid, and hit re-roll is great for them. I think having those long range threats are pretty important if you like me don't have any transport. It means the opponent can't just kill your slow melee from range without getting killed in return. Lastly, I had some Possessed. I honestly don't think the nerf did too much if you run 5-man, as they mostly only get one real fight where they need devastating. The value for me was always being T6 with a 5++ moving 9". As a 5-man, I rarely have more than one fight with the full squad alive, so I just pop DW for that. They exist to me as something tougher and faster than Legionaries to reach objectives where the opponent doesn't have enough firepower to take them down. I do not think they can be built around, though. 10-man units only doing it once per game is harsh for 250 points. With MoP nerf they also lost the only real character support they had. At this point you take them just for the stat line, and at 125 points I think that is a bit tough sell. They were fine if you have points to spare, but you can likely always find better use for those points (hint: spam more Warp Talons).

[@firediowa_8452]

I think veterans of the long war and fell-hammer are gonna be great for beginners as the detachment rule is useful and easy to understand. The stratagems and enhancements are also good to help new players as well as for more experienced players to take advantage of too. All around a great detachment for both new and experienced players

[@fatarchon]

Couldn't agree more, they're both straight forward + fairly forgiving (esp Fellhammer). VotLW is great in that it gives you a taste of a million different playstyles too

[@eddieisaac4415]

Good job man smashing out these videos

[@fatarchon]

Thank you brother, it's been some work but it's worth it

[@eugeneehigginsIII]

I thought the rule was that if you have an ability that allows 0cp and multiple use stratagems, that if you use that ability before a unit that doesn't have that ability then you only get to use it once, but you still get the 0cp. Ideal timing: Unit A doesn't have that ability, uses stratagem; Unit B does have that ability, uses strat again for 0cp. Less ideal: Unit B uses it first for 0cp, Unit A can't use that strat b/c already used. No?

[@fatarchon]

No you're right, I think I mentioned it the first time in the vid but not the 2nd so it was easy to miss! But yeah be careful with the timing on those sorts of things hah

[@xXCigarXx]

These videos are so helpful. You earned a subscriber. 😅

[@4hater300]

Would love to get a Deceptors review!

[@fatarchon]

Well you're in luck! I got all my notes & whatnot together earlier today so I just gotta record 'n edit it. Hoping to have it out tomorrow but we'll see how it goes I'm super hyped on it, Soul Link is the coolest enhancement ever hah

[@nelsons714]

Great videos bro

[@jameswright2240]

Im getting into csm for the first time and love terminators. What detachment would you recommend for a termi focused list thankz 😊

[@fatarchon]

Ohoo, Felhammer Siege Host would make a perfect home for them. They're already so tabky baseline, you toss on a -1tW then maybe a Termie Lord who can blank damage *every* turn & they become downright invulnerable :)

[@_wolf_953]

Really interested to see which new detachment would be a god counter to chaos knights, my local shop has a few players that run 10 baby knights (5 brigands/ 5 karnivores) and usually 1 big one

[@fatarchon]

VOTLW is a great option for sure, but Soulforged Warpack would also be a contender with their +1tW! Sort of a toss up between those two I'd think Chaos Cult would be able to horde mode them too lol

[@ceawesome3363]

Hello, I’m new to 40k and this has been really helpful in trying to decide what I want in my army. If you do see this, what would you recommend priority wise on a budget? This stuff ain’t cheap. Great content tho, keep up the good work

[@fatarchon]

Hey there! If you're on a budget I'd say: Legionaries is a great kit as you can use them for Chosen or convert some as Characters etc. Venomcrawlers & Obliterators are really cheap on Ebay (VCs are really strong too). The Combat Patrol is a perfect start. Predator tanks & Rhino's off Ebay are also usually pretty good value. Hope that helps!

[@ceawesome3363]

@@fatarchon Thank you!

[@Slapdab]

Thanks for the content

[@Skillionaire005]

Can you please clarify why it matters when a strategum is 'battle tactic'? You mentioned something about 2 separate units being able to use it? Is it not limited to once per phase?

[@fatarchon]

So, any/every rule that mentions effecting Strategems (unless it names a specific one) can only effect Battle Tactics So Chaos Lord with their "you may use a strategem someone else has & its free" only works on Battle Tactics. Or Cyphers "increase the cost by 1" only works on them too etc Hope that helps!

[@Skillionaire005]

@@fatarchon oh yeah! I remember that change now! I haven't played in so long. Thank you!

[@Skillionaire005]

My friends and I are playing a custom game where basically it's vehicles only (with some other rules like x2 wounds for all). I feel like this is the detachment I should choose for this list. What do you think?

[@fatarchon]

They'd be great vs a Vehicle skew list! If you own a bunch of Daemon Engines then Soulforged Warpack would be another great option That said don't forget about SCORING. If someone has a bunch of vehicles they usually don't have the best objective control stats, or have issues getting around the board, so often you have the advantage :) I have a video I'm recording about scoring on T1 so keep your eyes out

[@Skillionaire005]

@@fatarchon I'm running old school Predators, Vindicators and Landraiders - world of tanks style haha, with the odd demon engine thrown in. Anyway, thanks! Great vids by the way.

[@ЮраЖигаленко-и6ф]

Great vid! Those models in TTS look great, how can I find them in Steam?

[@fatarchon]

You don't have to watch it but my most recent TTS tutorial has a download link to the armies I use, should be in the description

[@ЮраЖигаленко-и6ф]

@@fatarchon thx mate)

[@fatarchon]

@user-cf6zg1zi9l anytime brother!

[@rudesthazard5769]

Thank you for these

[@fatarchon]

Glad you like them!

[@Mikeyc2k6]

I'm sure the points in the description don't add up to this codex at all! There's anywhere between 5-20 pts difference on EVERY UNIT.

[@KawaiiAzusa]

I'm building up Night Lords right now. But for 1000pts I will be running this detachment and use my Plague Marines in a Nurgle Rhino. It's like you said, this detachment is perfect if you don't have an optimized list already painted

[@riosmios8575]

great videos archon. Only youtuber i dont have to turn to 1.5x speed.

[@fatarchon]

Daaamn, that's like, the nicest thing I've ever been told lmao

[@jeremiegartner464]

okay..here me out. Heldrake. with pariah focusing on fast small units like fly units. Using the torrent strat with his flamer and anti fly 2 could really chew up armies that are using alot of fly units for actions.

[@fatarchon]

I like your style! Lol, yeah I love the Heldrake & I've actually had some great games with him in fact (esp with Soulforged Warpack). I think you have the right idea of going after smaller units too, I like him as a T1 charger that ties up weak melee units. That said at the end of the day he's still terribly inefficient BUT that doesn't mean he's unusable by a long shot. I guarantee someone could still win a GT with one even 😜 But yeah, we need a Make Heldrake Great Again