VICE on HBO Season 2: Surveillance City and The Forgotten War (Episode 12)

In the finale of our second season, we go to Camden, New Jersey-one of the poorest and most drug-ridden cities in the country. In an attempt to curb the spread of crime, the state of New Jersey has installed an experimental security apparatus equipped with futuristic technologies. Then we investigate the genocide that is still raging in Darfur, even though the global community has mostly stopped paying attention.
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[@__RD14533]

Getting him to define what a police state is was brilliant!

[@everettfanor1989]

yea while showing video of police officers doing it was awesome. Some cops are brainwashed and don't use logic

[@__RD14533]

EVO Fan Yeah This American Life did an interesting two part series on police. They tend to see things completely differently. Cognitive dissodence is a bitch.

[@orlandov.5537]

EVO Fan Well being a cop doesn't require an extensive education career, most of these ppl only have a high school diploma... It's silly these ppl have so much power yet small education careers, which is fucking insane and a joke.

[@090erick]

Especially since his definition practically described the situation in Camden. I felt like the interviewer should have asked him: "Really? Cause its sounds like all that stuff IS going on."

[@MOOEMAN]

Stefan Bekowsky he'd probably get locked up for some fabricated written law lol

[@lahdeedah87]

If you see sky-high crime rates, you better believe the population will be poor and desperate for money. Its hard to see this when you know there are assholes in this world with more money than they can use. The gap between the rich and the very poor is far far too large.

[@lahdeedah87]

Also, anyone else get 1984 vibes? It makes me very nervous.

[@hankhill2625]

Monique Pihl 1984 has been done and its called facebook

[@lahdeedah87]

Hank Hill I'm not sure you've actually read the book than. facebook is not comparable.

[@Finity1990]

Instead of stealing and selling drugs, they need to steal some work boots and work.

[@fmlAllthetime]

***** if that person is starving it would probably be the kind thing to do. Idk bout you, but I would.

[@henrybullwinkle6828]

I like how the cop said Camden wasn't a police state, then described everything going on in Camden as a definitive police state.

[@NatHenrickClarke]

Henry Bullwinkle right, funny

[@arcadeslum5882]

@Bema Naturu China.

[@akallstar5]

It is a police state, but it also deserves to be and should be a police state.

[@jasongrech5735]

Definitely a police state

[@zavtradnem]

fucking idiot

[@jamesc210]

14:44 - "Is Camden a police state?" *instantly and dismissively turns head* "No, not at all" "Then what would be a police state?" *Proceeds to give pretty accurate definition of what they're actually doing*

[@jdottym5835]

exactly. being out there regularly that is exactly what goes on too

[@VICE]

In the finale of our second season, we go to Darfur, where atrocities are still happening, even though the global community has mostly stopped paying attention. VICE returns to HBO with a report on the viruses that might kill cancer. Watch tonight at 10/9c. Season 3 premiers March 6 at 10/9c. More Season 2 of VICE on HBO: bit.ly/VICE-HBO-S2-E1

[@mattfijita3575]

Holy shit that facial recognition technology reminds me of watch dog's

[@TheG65090]

correct me if i'm wrong, but wasn't this on before some time ago?

[@lukemilton1964]

Great episode! Keep up the amazing work!

[@JvDaProphet91]

Good jobs guys, im from camden and i find this very true.

[@sayuas4293]

It's interesting how almost none of the opposition can speak English properly.

[@__BERSERKER__]

“When the people fear the government, that's tyranny; when the government fears the people, that's freedom.” -THOMAS JEFFERSON

[@Ben942K]

"We wanna sell drugs and harm the community, freedom!" 😭😭

[@justinvilla6314]

Vice, the only place doing real news.

[@jimbocee6149]

For the most part I agree. Now their global warming videos, not so much.

[@logicinjector5402]

PBS

[@justinvilla6314]

Matt corey True non profits do better, but can be influenced with donations.

[@logicinjector5402]

Justin Villa well, yeah True. PBS still does a fantastic job.

[@michaelsandoval7608]

Uhhhhh...you missed 50 years of news. lmao.

[@Love_speech]

“Those who give up liberty for security deserve neither.” Benjamin Franklin

[@Praisethesunson]

Fuck yo freedoms. -The state

[@gorillapimpin2978]

The little bird sitting on top of that surveillance camera is more free than the people walking below it.

[@Richard-tj6dx]

Duh. What point are you trying to make?

[@mikeyg127]

I'm sure ill get a lot of shit for this but. If you lived in a shit hole nation ( like parts of africa ) with little food, and clean water. Why would you have a child? That child is just going to die of starvation or disease.

[@SamDogg00]

you are right that children in the camps are likely to die early of disease or starvation. but it simply isn't as simple as people just wanting to have kids. rape is very common in refugee camps like the one shown in this video. these women are left to care for children they didn't intend to have in the first place. also (sometimes) the stigma in communities like these is that women are required to have children whether they like it or not. the answer to your question is that it all comes down to how women are being treated and the expectations men have for women in general. just my own take on it.

[@everettfanor1989]

Its a numbers game I guess. the more you have the more better chance your family name will continue to prosper. You never know 1 out of 10 children in the family might make it out and make millions and take all his family out the dump hole. its like lottery. I would do the same but im in los angeles. lol

[@MegaFallout3Fan]

It's more likely for your kids to die because of disease and food so you churn out a bunch of kids so that if a few die you still have a few left. Plus more help with trying to get food and water and stuff.

[@TheMartijnNL]

These people are not sexually educated and have absolutely no money for condoms.

[@Philo9015]

ok i get your point but did you ever think about that most people there dont even know that condoms and other contraceptives exist? so its hard for them to have sex without getting children. and even if they knew i dont think they could afford it...

[@laurenelizabeth5015]

Uhhhh, his explanation of a "police state" seems to prove that it actually is a police state lol. Close enough anyway. I get the cameras for security, but harrassing people for walking around and standing on a certain sidewalk while committing no crime is ridiculous.

[@Jbourbz]

very true

[@General420smoke]

i dont mind cameras but aslong as they remove stupid laws against drugs and prostitution there would be no problems.

[@everettfanor1989]

I cant believe having sex with a human is illegal between two adults in 2015. what if you give her an ipod insead of money is that considered prostitution?

[@DamonCassada345]

You do realize that anywhere there's cameras, the residents pay for them through taxes, right?

[@blancoguwopp2707]

Fun fact: the guy at the beginning cursing at the cop is named Joselito, and his brother Mikey and sister Savannah were both arrested by the new police force for 3 murders between both of them

[@jose5776381]

that was the negative about Camden NJ here's the positive. recorded music has it;s roots in Camden, recorded country music has it's roots in Camden, Campbell soup has it's main headquarters here, Martin Luther King lived here before he went to Montgomery Alabama for four years, Camden shaped his views on the civil rights movement (Dr Ulysses Wiggins was friend and mentor). the first drive in theater was in Camden, and we all know Walt Whitman lived here.When i walk through my city i don't see trash, i see the begin to better, out of adversity great things happen .

[@Letsallparty2]

jose cruz you must be a Democrat.

[@thecitizenjoan]

God Bless Officer Thompson, he look like he was the type of kid in school who would tell on people and remind the teacher to assign homework 😂

[@papermind4010]

Omg that cop defined what a police state is, at the same time defining what Camden is, then saying it's not what Camden is. Lol.

[@stenbak88]

We (America) give over 1.5 billion in military aid to Egypt but we can not spend any on people who need it. Before anyone says anything about oil we get most of our oil from Canada and Venezuela so don't

[@SwissMarksman]

stenbak88 lmao. most eastern countries couldn't do fucking shit without western technology about oil fracking technology. that's a fact.

[@orlandov.5537]

Not just oil, western capitalism. There is no clear investments for businesses besides weaponry to be made in Sudan, so why should the U.S care about a country like Sudan? and forget that fairy tale shit of relieving the world of suffering.

[@MrPackerProductions]

Egypt need it...

[@SwissMarksman]

***** I'm just talking about the technology on how to "gain" oil, not the fracking itself. I accidently twisted some words.

[@PAXperMortem]

America gets most of their oil from Texas.

[@billwilmington8284]

How to solve the problem in Camden: Destroy all the abandoned/vacant buildings.

[@mis-ter-bis-kits8428]

🤣🤣🤣

[@tomwilczynski7464]

Wow... That ending of the "Police State" is just so brilliant. Nice setup Virkam

[@TheDigitalslayer]

To me, It feels like each decade little by little we step closer and closer to the world in the book written by George Orwell's '1984'.

[@santiamen260]

Unfortunately a bunch of criminals makes that possible.

[@gabriellej7256]

Re: the piece on Darfur. Although the cause of the rebel fighters might be legitimate, rebel fighters involved in many conflicts the world over have often been accused of committing similar atrocities to government fighters. As such, I would have appreciated a discussion over how the rebels would work to prevent civilian casualties and to ensure the protection of women from acts of sexual violence. Another important aspect to consider in post-conflict societies is how these fighters might be able to reintegrate back into society once, or if, they achieve their aim.

[@MrChickenselects]

You can't even stop at red lights in Camden without fear of being high jacked and or killed

[@mystikast]

Thank blacks for that!

[@algorythmbeatz]

thays not true. I work in Camden every day....and it's not a speed thru red light type of place

[@Larry-gv3tr]

that ending song from the rebel fighters in Sudan made a chill run down my spine. Those people are ready to die to take their country back and most of them might have already.

[@crispysock520]

8:20 how can a cop charge you for loitering cause you walked down the same street twice?

[@jacobrichards4448]

the cop describing a police state with the police state montage was great film makeing editing and a great example of cognitive dissonance

[@thesimulacre]

"walking while being white and standing while being black" We'll that's nothing new

[@scrapcard2000]

After watching this it brings to mind the short story "The Pedestrian" by Ray Bradbury. The similarities are striking.

[@squishyfaceguy]

I clicked on this because I thought it was Dave Chappelle in the thumbnail. Still interesting though.

[@aionescu33]

Exactly what i thought

[@Usammityduzntafraidofanythin]

Chappelle is probably ethnically Sudanese.

[@wogayehugebremeskel2525]

*****

[@VasBaev]

My fucking lord, THE definition of police state haha "hey lady get off the corner"

[@joenate3317]

I like imagine how the world will be in 40 years after the Sudanese conflict, Syrian Civil War, Ukrainian War, and the downfall of the drug cartels in Mexico.

[@culterwaleddy]

Pretty much the same, but with lasers.

[@Crystalhertz]

collin ohlinger hahaha a very good comment

[@GearZNet]

collin ohlinger Have you seen the railgun. Pew Pew.

[@JoseGLozano]

Drug cartels won't be gone in 40 years if the PRI stay in power

[@RealAnita926]

Christ may have returned by then.

[@MegaFallout3Fan]

This place reminds me of the game The Division for some reason.

[@boredymcbored]

Camden's situation is so terrible. It breaks so many constitutional rights. Why can the police tell you not to stand on the corner and why can they issue these tickets for loitering and these other "crimes"? They can't honestly legally can't. That's against probably cause. Suspicion isn't a solid argument to put you in an legal altercation. I still personally think it's unconstitutional for drugs to be illegal in the first place because you're in the privacy of your own home. These cameras are DEFINITELY a violation of the constitution. I like the idea on paper but it's obvious that with the way these police officers are handling this, it'll cause MUCH more harm and civil distress than good.

[@trimrexha1682]

I love how when the cop is describing a police state. Shots of what he describes are put up of what happens in that town just after he said it's not a police state lol brilliant!

[@kooorga]

Is it naive to think, that social programs might be much more powerful and effective then this city 17 approach?

[@SuperFighter94]

If you threw in Snake Plisskin and some 80's retro music it'd be Escape from New York

[@daviddonaghy7568]

Phillip B We should wall Camden completely off from human beings.

[@bobthebuilder1360]

The Africans be turnt

[@daviddonaghy7568]

Bob The Builder What does this mean?

[@bobthebuilder1360]

@@daviddonaghy7568 It means THEY BE TURNT

[@MaxBeamer]

I'm sorry to say this but those camps aren't meant for you to mooch off of forever that's why the funding has been cut in half and eventually will be again. That's the problem with helping people they expect you to do it again and again, or in this case forever. Those camps we're clearly constructed for temporary aid until the people worked at rebuilding and creating a sustainable food source. Someone please correct me if I'm mistaken.

[@oInstant]

Maybe if the actual cause of why they are in the camps was dealt with they wouldn't need aid and wouldn't have to ask for people to send them food, money and medicine.

[@oInstant]

Lol nice comment

[@oInstant]

yup just like the Europeans who came to America

[@abasfarah]

This should be the last episode in season 2 not season three.

[@johnmoore-alameda4241]

Interesting how the 2012 Camden police reform is being cited as an example for what police forces could do rn but this shows it in a very different light

[@4P3X101]

Security at the price of freedom... So pathetic

[@D4LM4R]

The first segment is a perfect example of the classic catch-22 trap "Damn you if you do, and damn you if you don't"

[@n3rdbear]

4:55 she's cute, too bad shes working for government surveillance so she's going to be one of those ultra clingy chicks except at an unprecedented level because she will have access to all personal information of the guy she's dating.

[@yY-mz4fc]

Anybody else noticed the metro struggling to answer the reporter's question about what a police state is? haha

[@DamonCassada345]

If I had cameras flooding my neighborhood, I would take advantage of it by covering my house with QR codes leading to me and my GF's websites/etc. Free advertising!

[@BurrBurr1001]

Finity1990 Word up!

[@EAS573182]

That chant that they did at the end of the Sudan episode that went "Khartoum is our city.." was awesome! Africans do such a wonderful job of creating music from just their voices. I hope these rebels are able to make significant progress so that Sudan can finally see peace.

[@n3rdy11]

I really sympathize with these Sudan people and their bad situation, but this hyperbole spin on everything is really making me cringe. No, I don't believe that a months sugar ration, for the whole refugee camp, amounts to a teaspoon full. They obviously have issues getting enough food and water for these people, that sugar "example" still ends up feeling odd.. And I also find it also hard to believe that these guys fought off 516 vehicles/21 tanks and "took them all killing 600". No doubt they had a fight there and they probably won, but this "boosting up the numbers in unrealistic ways" just ends up making them look hilarious.

[@starcherry6814]

They really were starving them out though. You should read up on where the refugees are now

[@Tox23Gbrl]

The beat at 3:43 was a nice touch

[@antonio8332]

The singing in the end is beyond badass

[@chhavimanichoubey9437]

yes war song

[@fernandosalgado4783]

1984 Big Brother

[@fernandosalgado4783]

True

[@willhildebrand1313]

I love that when ask by the reporter "Is this a Police State" the head COP says "That's where you have police every street, limit people's movement, and some other nonsense ..CHECK,CHECK CHECK

[@yaodon2390]

Camden needs to be shut down

[@rachelholdren7069]

i currently live in Camden NJ and it just keeps getting worse and worse. The first week I lived in my house, a man that I saw everyday was shot right in front of my house in a drive by.I was so hysterical being that I've never seen anything like that in my life. He asked me not to leave him and I held his hand till my roommate pulled me away just in case the shooters came back. Luckily he survived but his two friends died. Such a shame

[@xmaryxhavokx]

its been 6 years since u wrote this. Have things gotten better? have the cameras and all the cops helped? or did you move ?

[@apolloinknl]

Haha getting a letter in the mail Sir/Ma'am we observed your car in a drug deal please stop immediately.

[@SLACKLINEDUDE]

Vice so tongue in cheek when describing a police state

[@XiBXClan]

Decriminalize drugs, and your crime rates will cut in half. Just look at Colorado or Portugal. The "War on Drugs" is over guys, you lost.

[@TheZach941129]

im a Korean living in Korea, which is a country that has one of the most street cameras in the world. It is said that there are almost 1 or more camera in every 3 block radius in Seoul. However, majority of citizens advocate the cameras because it does help with arrest rates. Also, Korea has a very low drug use rate so most cases of surveillance is only done to see the recordings of the crime that took place. I think it is controversial and depends on the country

[@bigtimer5205]

i think this is what the world of real life robocop would be like lol

[@michaelsandoval7608]

“We gettin’ money!” With your broke ass iPhone 4! Lmmfao! 😂

[@Shikam187]

The lack of self awareness at 14:40 was disturbing as hell

[@unconformingtruther5496]

24:45 it's like in black panther, bringing a CIA agent right in the middle of Wakanda's secrets

[@thewanderer7056]

The problem is when a civilian commits a crime against a police officer, then the CCTV footage would be readily available in court for instance, but when a Police officer commits an act of violence and crime against an innocent civilian then I would bet the footage would mysteriously disappear... It doesn't seem to be a 2 way street, that is why Smart Phones are more important than ever, every civilian has the potential to film the police, just like the police are filming us.

[@harikrishnan_tn]

14:47 really like the irony shown here....

[@Paid2Win]

In the refugee camps, I understand it's easier said than done - but if only half of them reproduced the population of the camp would drop due to mortality rates. Then, balance a number of people with how much food is being given to ensure a healthier percentage. Their rations and building material is spread way too thin but with a lower population could potentially be more manageable.

[@MrSam603]

I like this. I know it is not a proper answer, but as someone who wants to feel safe, this makes me feel safe. Im just a law student trying to get to class

[@jblock2490]

Eyedea & Abilities at the beginning? Nice

[@bengemmell3852]

HELL YEAH MAN! Burn Fetish!

[@Rob02150]

I wonder if those gentlemen in Trenton realize that the scanner apps on phones are often delayed.

[@rustyspoons6812]

also i like the editing on when he asks if the city is a police state and the officer says no and as he describes a police state it shows how they actually are a police state

[@lukemilton1964]

I love Vice! Awesome episode! Really sad to see what's happening in Camden, NJ!

[@deidradahl3186]

If you do not have criminal intent the cameras should not bother you, i do not even remember them as i go about my business, only the criminals, or people hoping to do wrong are concerned

[@SakuraaaHarmony]

Deidra Dahl exactly! I really don’t care if the government can see what I’m doing. I’m doing nothing illegal. If you aren’t doing anything you shouldn’t be doing, then you really have nothing to worry about

[@brianc1481]

A free man never gives up his privacy in the name of security...

[@slimwon]

At the 15 minute mark he asks what's a police state and the chief perfectly describes what's going on there and says it's not...wow

[@BaybieK]

WTF Vice, where is your "warning graphic content" notification for your Darfur piece from 15:00?! I don't fancy seeing charred corpses when tucking into a chicken salad!!!

[@michaelpinto5448]

The police office at 8:07 had an intense stare, you can tell how well he is at profiling.

[@drphilsmustache7987]

As someone who lives in Camden County can we please inform people that the average taxpayer pays $10,000 /year in property taxes google search homes in the county and then look at taxes.

[@rustyspoons6812]

interesting how the big brother concept is coming out

[@shellyevans2066]

I just watched the episode killing cancer and, all I can say is GOD IS GOOD!!! and Great reporting once again Vice. I look foward to future episodes.

[@devtrolio1573]

All these cameras and people still getting away with murder

[@koalabearringmaster2762]

You kidding me?? The cops getting all bug and bad with a teenager just walking down the sidewalk and says if i see you around here again ill get you for loitering. I swear to god if that isn't evidence of abuse of authority then i dont know what is. If you were to get stopped by a cop like that and they ask you to stop and show ID you dont have to unless they have a valid reason. If you know they dont have a reason and you KNOW you did nothing wrong then how are you supposed to assert your rights as a citizen and refuse that shit?? Someone please tell me.

[@Fray1299]

This episode is so intense, it skips the episode 11.

[@JerichoxVxKane]

I was in Manilla last year and they had something close to this ...

[@93roland4]

The Sudan Armed Forces announced that it had killed Khalil Ibrahim with an air strike in North Kordofan on 25 December 2011. This episode is early 2011 ?

[@samuelvasquez9170]

Lol when he explains police state it matches to what they are doing and he says they aren't

[@MyNameBaboo]

That facial recognition software is scary.

[@jcsv12345]

Even if it is helpful, the idea of cameras watching your every move is pretty scary, and could easily be abused.

[@tonysienna2495]

Did that snowman have a weave on lol??

[@poorandimmature]

23:22 ROFL Ben's response had me in stiches

[@jerzeysfinest7893]

I was born and raised in Camden 33 yrs. I left there 8 yrs ago. I moved far away to the other side of the country.. lol. To the West Coast. I am doing so good. Good job, family, house, cars. So glad I made it out of there. There are good people there. Lots of them. There's just more drugs, crime, and poverty. More like infested with drugs and crime. It was way worse 10-20 yrs ago. I'm truthfully on the fence. That city needs to be cleaned up bad!! But the police force was too intense. They were called military style. I try not to get caught up in the Marshall law hype, but damn!! If there ever was a beginning.... just saying.

[@Staminist-MMF-80]

Wow! The sound comes from the future! Amazing!

[@contactwide]

Vikram is the best reporter on Vice

[@SuperSpaucy123]

I live like 10 mins away from Camden in the suburbs

[@bcg6760]

9:00 " we don't have our privacy no more..." of course not it's a public place.

[@akallstar5]

Camden is a police state, and it SHOULD be a police state. The city is the epitome of pure chaos, and if you find yourself living there you likely have certain emotional issues that need to be sorted out before you can join civilized society. Consider this a stepping stone above prison but below society, sort yourself out and work your way out of it and you can move.

[@brianjackson8056]

Anyone else find that war song fire at the end

[@LondonsBurning99]

The guy from the University of Illinois made the point that you'll reach a state where every move is captured and recorded..... where already there with the heavy prevalence of CCTV. In the UK there was an estimation that you are caught on camera up to 300 times a day, the police's high tech CCTV system is just more intelligent and personally i feel serves a better and more preventive purpose than CCTV albeit at a huge costs to the freedom of the society it serves to protect.

[@numgun]

Absolutely breathtaking stuff

[@lazydayhohum]

I find it odd that they got rid of half the force but could afford to purchase a system like this and form a military style unit.The cost for both is astronomical.

[@joba606]

What does the cop say at 4:45 ? Sounds like 'We have visual MA-NEE-FROM'. Whatever that means....

[@DingoAteMeBaby]

Wish i could get a recording or name of that song they sing at the end.

[@jonathan2847]

Survalliance city, thought they where talking about London, the UK has the most CCTV cameras out of every country and more than twice that of second place.

[@jackiechan_wtf4041]

You know its that bad, when the police patrol the streets with not just 1, not 2, BUT 3 cops at a time. Kinda scary.