Victorian Crime: The "Baby Farmers"

[@melfreemans]

My great grandmother had a baby out of wedlock, over 100 years ago. Her family forced her to put the newborn baby girl in an orphanage. Two years later my great grandmother married. A few weeks into the marriage she told her husband about the baby. Rather than leave her like many men would have done, he immediately left, went to the orphanage and got that little girl and brought her home to raise as his own daughter. In his mind she was his, no different than the other children they eventually had. That's a good man.

[@ReadingthePast]

This is a restore your faith in humanity kind of story! Thank you for sharing, what a good man 🤣

[@melfreemans]

@@ReadingthePast I cried for an hour when my grandmother told me the story. My great grandmother's family was never kind to the baby when she was brought home from the orphanage, so she cut most ties with them. Her husband's family was incredibly loving and kind and welcoming. I'm 60 now, and the older I get the more I realize how incredibly lucky and blessed I was to grow up in a stable, somewhat privileged home with loving parents. The reality is that throughout history and even throughout the world today, a childhood like mine is very rare.

[@vickitavana3944]

Very rare, but that's a man to keep!

[@melfreemans]

@@vickitavana3944 absolutely! They had a long and happy marriage!!

[@MsLogjam]

That's a real man.

[@kateh2893]

In the U.S. today we have what's called "foster farming" - when "foster parents" take in multiple older children at a time to collect the stipend meant to provide for them and then provide substandard care in order to collect profit, sometime working the children for free labor as well.

[@ReadingthePast]

Yikes! I hadn’t heard that term - I wonder if anything similar could be going on in the U.K.?

[@kateh2893]

@@ReadingthePast I mean, golly I hope not, but humans do seem to find a way. :( I have noticed many people in the U.S. don't know about foster farming and think when I mention it that I'm making a joke about "foster farms" brand chickens. I know about this (foster farming) because I grew up behind a (relatively nice, but still cruel) foster farm and later when I heard the term for what I had witnessed I never forgot. On a slightly related note: the only man killed in the 2014 Bundy terrorist standoff was in fact a foster farmer, so I say good riddance.

[@sandramarieroberts1172]

Yes. I’ve seen it multiple times in rural Canada too. Local families would take in foster kids from Toronto as the allowance provided income. It is part of the local economy. I dealt with many of them in the schools. I can’t say that I witnessed an abusive element though. In fact, we were in as much contact with the agencies as with the foster parents.

[@silvergirl2847]

@@ReadingthePast it's happening everywhere.

[@bookmouse2719]

Yes, there is much abuse, there are those that do foster care though that are loving too. I think they need to be screened better and monitored more carefully.

[@laara1426]

I am 70 yro old woman who has been reading about such atrocities towards children and women for 55 years. The only thing that seems to have changed over the hundreds of years of systemic abuse, neglect and death of innocents is the accessories that the perpetrators wear. Greed appears to be a motivating factor coupled with calculated cruelty.. History repeats itself.

[@SmartStart24]

Women and children are the least protected groups in society always. It’s such a shame and doesn’t have to be that way.

[@silvergirl2847]

Yes yes and yes! I'm blue from saying it.people keep talking like it dosent happen .

[@brendagarnder9758]

I HAVE BEEN IN THE SYSTEM AS A CHILD! FOSTER HOMES IS NOTHING NICE! 🛐🤭👒✝️🎃🇺🇲

[@TheSapphireLeo]

""Geno" agenda"?

[@TheSapphireLeo]

I.e. "Population control"?

[@TheGipper4prez]

I didn't realize til you explained baby farming that Victor Hugo made it a cenerpiece of his work Les Misérables. The plight of young Cosette is a perfect example of baby farming in France at the time.

[@cococreates26]

I thought of this as Dr Kat was talking too!

[@sr2291]

Gotta read that book. It is on my list.

[@llaurenscarter]

I had that realisation too. I always knew the Thenardiers were awful, but now I understand it more.

[@iamnotpasta4408]

Her birth name is Euphrasie. Cossette was created from chossette which means little thing. Her name is thingy (:

[@jadebrock6449]

Can add Oliver twist into the mix aswell

[@pamelaoliver8442]

For as superior a species as we humans consider ourselves, I've always found it remarkably sad we need laws to protect those most vulnerable among us.

[@danamichelle1290]

Well said. Quite sad but true.

[@lynnedelacy2841]

I remember seeing a programme about Barnardo’s where the tradition was that the mother left a half a scrap of material when leaving her child there and she kept the other half to prove parenthood at a time when paperwork and literacy was at a minimum The intention was to reclaim their child when their circumstances improved- the sad thing was the number of scraps of cloth that still exist in their records each representing the separation of mother and child

[@lizhart81]

London Metropolitan Archives holds these kind of records from the Foundling Hospital, which was set up by Thomas Coram in 1739. Mothers would leave a token of some kind to help identify their child if their circumstances improved and they were able to return to claim them. Often the only thing they had left to give was a small square of fabric snipped from the seam of their dress. Much like Barnardo's, the charity is still going, but obviously works in a different fashion these days. Coram is now a group of charities who all work to protect children and support struggling families in a range of ways.

[@jamieoconnor9304]

A byproduct of those mothers leaving those scraps of fabric is that the largest and best preserved collection of historical textiles we have is from orphanages... On the one hand, I want to know about historic fabrics but on the other hand...

[@irateoverlord.theresa1324]

@@jamieoconnor9304 as a quilter (and mother of 4) I understand 🙁

[@misssis1935]

I grew up in New Zealand knowing of the case of Minnie Dean, known as the 'Baby in the Hatbox' murderer. She was basically a baby farmer, same as in these cases, and was found guilty of infanticide in 1895. She is the only woman in New Zealand history to have been hanged. When I was born and my dad (not a New Zealander) suggested calling me Minnie, my mother was horrified, as the name still carried a lot of weight, even in the 1970s!

[@gretchenbaker7435]

We did a play about Minnie at drama school so got to deep dive into her and the eras story. Sad and fascinating

[@leonieromanes7265]

She was the most infamous woman in NZL for decades. But no one really knows if she murdered the baby or he died of natural causes. NZL was meant to be a better Britain. People wanted certain things to stay in England like workhouses and baby farming.

[@ask_why000]

Give the current situation in New Zealand she may not be the last.

[@roxiepoe9586]

I am mystified that I live among beings who have created a society in which the murder of a child is wrong, but the support and aid to children is so fragile and undervalued.

[@CHLOCHLOLP]

humans are too capable for our own good. too much brain power and ability to change the world put into the hands of a bunch of emotional and violent apes.

[@elenaderoet4926]

@@sabrinamurphy4009 yeah. And that's the problem.

[@elenaderoet4926]

I have been scratching my head over this dissonance for a very long time. You cannot call yourself pro-life while denying access to the very things required to continue life. Anyone who thinks so is delusional.

[@emilybarclay8831]

@@elenaderoet4926 you forget the simple fact that ‘pro-life’ people are nothing but pro-birth and pro-control. That’s all they are. Because so few of them actually care what happens to the child or the mother after delivery. In fact, most of that crowd are also against welfare, free healthcare, and all the other things that would actually save lives

[@thekingsdaughter4233]

@@emilybarclay8831 I call BS on that. Polemics. And I'd be happy to provide you with a list of agencies and resources that PROVE you wrong.

[@andrealabonair3519]

As an Irish person, we had Mother and Baby Homes that were run by the Catholic Church that would 'hide' mostly unwed mothers, they would give birth, the mothers would expect that the babies would be adopted out into families, but the majority of the time those babies were killed. It was only in 2015 that a commission was started to look into what happened at these homes, but it was desolved in February of this year. Taoseach Micheál Martin made a formal apology on behalf of the State. But read into this at your own peril. I have a strong stomach and even I had to look away.

[@ibidthefrog]

I can't believe the last laundry only closed in the 90s!

[@andrealabonair3519]

@@ibidthefrog Exactly! It wasn't that long ago. And in my personal opinion, The Commition half-arse the entire thing.

[@ReadingthePast]

Honestly, whenever I’ve started trying to read up on the full reports, I’ve had to stop. It just makes me so angry and upset!

[@andrealabonair3519]

@@ReadingthePast Dr Kat, you have every right to be upset about the reports and had to stop reading because it's so horrible. I understand, I felt the same way. A few months back I tried to watch a documentary about these homes and I had to click away. I couldn't get passed the first half-hour. It was just awful. Absolutely awful.

[@leonieromanes7265]

It's never a good idea to mix religion with vulnerable women and children.😪

[@Mantuamaker]

The closing section, the discussion of ways to help children in need, moved me to tears. The are many great organizations out the that help children in abusive and neglectful homes, and ones that help those kids find homes. For me it was the Rocky Mountain Adoption Exchange. They held a party on March, 24, 1991 where I met my family for the first time. It was one of those days that is seared into my memory. I love that there are so many ways to help that organization now.

[@Dreymasmith]

The Australian colonies were also plagued by baby farmers, such as John and Sarah Makin. Evil knows no ocean bounds.

[@taika.melissa2798]

I've never understood why Aileen Wuornos has been described as "the first female serial killer". Baby farmers killed many more victims but theirs don't seem to be important, after all they were only the poor children of unwed, "immoral" mothers. Aileen killed adult men. Baby farmers were despicable, greedy women taking advantage of vulnerable young women and hanging was the proper punishment for them.

[@vettechhippie9373]

Aileen doesn’t hold a candle to the butter box babies. That still gives me chills

[@danamichelle1290]

I've heard Lizzie Borden described that way and no.. there is no comparison to that was done to the children and mothers...those poor babies! I completely agree with you

[@DraganGrazic]

John and Sarah Makin from NSW. They were australian baby farmers, John was murdered by the goverment. (hanged) Sarah got the mercy she never showed her victim's. (commuted to life in prison)

[@tarakennedy707]

Who said she was the first female serial killer?

[@LizStaples]

To say Aileen was first female serial killer is extra dumb Elizabeth Bathory was killing ppl by the 100s in 1600. As for baby farmers of the 1800’s Industrialization led to some horrid conditions which led to increased infant mortality thus few were ever even charged, these cases horrific today would not have felt as sensational at the time when many babies never reached a year old due to poverty, or disease.

[@Rosedawn321]

I never heard of baby farmers before, but I realize one is described in Oliver Twist.

[@elliewilson8863]

Thank you for your so well researched information about “ baby farming” which I’ve never heard of until now . Makes me wonder. Here in the USA we are having thousands of young children coming into our borders without parents and some of them are as young as four years little boys and girls . I am now fearful that some of those children will be terrible abused or even worse. These children some are already unaccounted for and put into foster care without any proper paperwork . Let’s hope and pray they find good heart natured people to care for those children .

[@barbaradean5242]

Children from around the world are shipped for evil purposes and for their organs.Its worse today than ever before.CPS is one of the worst.

[@xxcallmeniaxx3272]

If you look it up you'll see that a lot of the kids at the border report being sexually abuse by they guards:((((

[@blankonga]

I watched another video on the subject and they explained that this baby farming originated because the laws changed and the fathers of out of wedlock babies weren't requested to be financially responsible for their children only the mothers where on the hook for them.

[@annaselbdritt7916]

I find it insane that laudanum to quiet hungry babies was somehow cheaper than actually buying food to feed them

[@Lizzie-ve7kt]

Right?! Add in the fact that they also clearly had enough money to take out multiple newspaper adverts and it just goes to show that a lack of resources or funds was really never the issue for them, it was a lack of humanity IMO.

[@jennaolbermann7663]

We have a long history of discarding, dismissing or abusing the most vulnerable people in society. Even in modern day life we see examples of this. I cannot imagine the desperation some women or families felt to leave their babies with these people.

[@freedpeeb]

The thing that immediately came to my mind is the situation in Texas. Forcing women to give birth to a child for whom there is no good option for care is a very scary scenario. Desperate people do desperate things.

[@TheMehamil85]

Absolutely. I'm just sitting here thinking about how ending a pregnancy in the first trimester is so much preferable to the horrors that these children suffered. At least they didn't have the cognitive ability to know what was happening. Whereas these babies did. It's horrible.

[@morriganmoonglow2712]

Agree

[@TippyPuddles]

FORCED TO GIVE BIRTH! Tell them to go get some free birth control!

[@ibidthefrog]

@@TippyPuddles yes because rapists and abusers always check and use condoms

[@TheMehamil85]

@@TippyPuddles I'm not sure where you're at in the US, but not all of us have access to free birth control. Speaking for myself, I can't even take it. The hormones cause me to have stroke symptoms. So I've used condoms/pulling out reliably for the past 18 years.

[@LillibitOfHere]

I’m glad KZbin suggested your channel. My grandmother was born in a “protection home” for girls. It makes me sad that while they attempted to protect children they didn’t bother to consider the women who suffered the stigma of unwed pregnancy.

[@martinmaynard141]

There is a Portuguese novel "The Crimes of Fr Amaro" where the baby farmer is known as "the weaver of angels" in direct reference to the fact that the children were killed.

[@suzannebudlong8376]

Thank you for this video. While I was watching, I kept thinking about the Indian Residential Schools in Canada. The government required that Indigenous children attend and children were forcibly removed from their families and taken hundreds of kilometres away where they were stripped of their culture and beaten, abused, starved, and murdered. Many of the girls were sterilized. State and church sanctioned « baby farming » that happened from the mid 1860’s until 1996.

[@beth7935]

Similar things were done to Aboriginal Australians- the Stolen Generation & the mission stations, among other things :(

[@suzannebudlong8376]

@@beth7935 and the USA too.

[@ReadingthePast]

I’ve been following these stories. It’s so horrific!

[@beth7935]

@@suzannebudlong8376 Yeah, probably a lot of places Europeans invaded & set up colonies in, sadly :( The illegitimate babies of convict women here were kept in nurseries much like huge baby farms, where 90% died- & the government was FINE with that; they just "investigated" whenever complaints hit the media, then pretended they'd fixed things :( One of my ancestors lost a baby there- conceived on the ship out, so obviously taken advantage of by a soldier or sailor, as others were taken advantage of by their masters... but did anyone ask about the fathers? Yeah, right :(

[@beth7935]

@@ReadingthePast The Canadian ones? Are they in the news?

[@gaylesuggs8523]

While this topic is dark (and that's putting it mildly), I appreciate your sensitivity in bringing it to light. I had not heard of "baby farming" before today and couldn't help but think about Charles Dickens and some of his early writing about other abuses of children (i.e., Dotheboy's Hall in _The Life and Adventures of Nicholas Nickleby_ and the parish workhouse in _Oliver Twist_) and how by bringing the abuses to light resulted in positive changes in society. Sadly, human trafficking still exists today, sometimes even under our noses. Maybe this video will not only inform about historical events, but make some of us think about ways we can help others who are less fortunate even today. Again, thanks as always for your wonderful work, Dr. Kat!

[@samsalamander8147]

They had things called orphan trains that would transport children all over America to put them to work on farms it’s actually how the foster system started in the USA.

[@elizabethb3436]

@@samsalamander8147 so sad

[@PromisedJubilee]

Absolutely. Dickens is what came to my mind too.

[@lifehunger3676]

Oliver Twist is in a baby farm as an infant in the book.

[@lpcherry2324]

I’ve never heard of this subject before. At one point I was close to stopping the video. I powered through to the end because of my trust in Dr. Kat, and her ability to instruct. Terrible subject…great teacher.

[@jerrismith9337]

You’re such a great storyteller, even for the macabre!

[@Krootjes]

Right! Her voice is amazing!!

[@kayallen7603]

Banning abortion does not solve this problem, rather it is the LACK of ABORTIONS services that makes this crime worth doing. About the same time, in America 9 out of 10 foundlings in so-called Foundling Hospitals never survived their 5th birthdays, according to 1902 newspaper reports and letters from activists. As then, so now - the men who raped, seduced, or who pretending to marry young women - got off scott-free - while women were prosecuted and hung by the neck until dead. Often men would buy babies from these 'farmers' and 'hospitals' to abuse them until they died - for kicks. Human trafficking was and remains, do not kid yourselves, a gruesome and disgusting world-wide crime.

[@LeahDyson-kq4bd]

Was it 90 percent mortality in the worst places in NY and Chicago etc because I heard Europe was a lot worse back then

[@ameryek.9607]

"The Kindness of Strangers" is an outstanding, well-researched book on this subject.

[@Bee-ly4gx]

Thank you I shall take a look.

[@cfraser1321]

I agree... Great book

[@JennasHoover]

Author?

[@cfraser1321]

@@JennasHoover John Boswell

[@wandab3843]

"Baby Farming". This phrase chills me to the bone.

[@mi_kirsh]

A grimace from Kat, followed by “buckle up” is incredibly informative.

[@ladythalia227]

These ladies were referred to by the rather allegorical term "elglemakersker" in Norway. Meaning "angel makers". I bet you can understand why. What an awful way to make a living.

[@lisamcandrews8594]

I’m so glad you’re starting to talk about the subject. I live in America, I think of myself as an amateur historian. Here in America we tend to romanticize the British monarchy which pisses me off. I don’t think much of the monarchy. Especially the Victorian Time.

[@logarithmic7]

I agree with you Lisa, I feel the same way about people who romanticize and forget about all the horrible things that happened during the 'Gilded Age'. What was it? Greed, Lust and Power?

[@pisceanbeauty2503]

I think everyone likes to believe that they’d be a part of the privileged classes when 99 times out of 100 they would be on the lower rungs of society.

[@prettypic444]

slight tangent, but i like how you actually defined "feeble minded" in this video. so much of disabled history is either ignored at best or rose tinted at worse

[@ImCarolB]

I have long had an interest in true crime involving 18th and 19th century women. The baby farmers were a shock to the Victorian sensibility, considering how they challenged the accepted image of female nature.

[@jerricocke987]

I had actually not heard about baby farming and I wish I could say that it surprises me but the combinations of poverty and social punishment were overpowering.

[@revade6698]

Hi, Dr. Kat. Another excellent presentation of an, admittedly, grisly subject. Truth to tell, it has been a long time since I ceased being amazed by the cruelty exhibited by humanity toward those it deems to be inferior, insignificant, or weak. Anyway, I was greatly moved by your presentation - so much so that I needed to give my own children extra hugs today. Please give my best to Jamie and baby Gabriel. I look forward to seeing you next week.

[@jared1870]

Thank you for so many different things. The enjoyable part of this video was your sharing of your grandfather's love of history and his storytelling, both of which inspired your interests in history in general and crime history. I appreciate your thinking of topics that fit in with the mood of October. This is a painful topic, but we need to look at all aspects of history. I particularly liked how you examined potential causes, dire results, and proposed solutions to this ghastly part of history. I also appreciate how you call a spade a spade. Thank you very much for an informative video and I hope you feel in tip top shape very soon.

[@lorimartin3724]

Well said. I concur.

[@stevezytveld6585]

I'm the Granddaughter of a 'Scottish Cook'. For around 50 years I had assumed she sailed for Port Arthur (now Thunder Bay) from the Isle of Lewis on her own terms. Then I found out that women were regularly sent away from their families for either 'getting into trouble' with an unwanted birth (please, dear Lord, consensual) or suspected of being a lesbian. What would the likelihood be of that baby aunt or uncle ending up at one of these baby farms? How prevalent would they have been? Would there have been other options? Would there be advertisements for these farms in magazines like the 'Delineator'? Sorry, but highly coded Victorian language for talking their way around a situation has always caught my eye. In any event, a wonderful video. For all of the horror contained within. Here in Canada we've been going through the discovery of unmarked graves at former Native Residential Schools. I'm hoping for a full forensic and archeological overview of these sites, but it's early days. It's an echo of 'The Butterbox Babies" case from the 30's (which my own Mother was aware of when she faced her own unexpected pregnancy in the early 60's). Sigh. History echo's quite loudly sometimes. Thank you for all your work. - Cathy (&, accidently, Steve), Ottawa/Bytown/Pemisi

[@christinaholcomb1093]

As a someone that finds true crime and history fascinating, I truly appreciated your video. You did a wonderful job of delivering disturbing content with compassion. Thank you for sharing how laws changed and how we can help today. Well done.

[@melaber77]

I’m American and a true crime fan, and in recent years I have become totally obsessed with 19th century macabre crimes. I recommend “Murder Maps”, if you haven’t seen it! Also, my sister lives in Muswell Hill near Finchley, and I had never heard of that case, so I will definitely be a doing a deeper dive on that. Feel better soon, and happy belated birthday to your son 😊

[@christineelmore5923]

love the Murder Map series!

[@rhondacrosswhite8048]

Dr. Kat, as a new mother I know you find the practice of baby farming especially poignant and painful. Thank you for discussing this abhorrent practice and I hope you continue to speak on subjects pertaining to women. Whether the expect mother was a pretty parlour maid that the Lord or his son took a fancy to, a poor street-corner ‘working girl’ or the doted upon daughter of a society family who foolishly fell for a rogues attention, too many women and girls found themselves found themselves enciente with no way to care for a child. With as much attention as another abhorrent practice we call slavery has received in recent times, it is only proper that we draw attention to some of the other practices that are repugnant to our modern sensibilities. The world of the past was a much more cruel time than would be acceptable today.

[@charlotte-mg9wj]

Thank you for this video. I live in Reading and know of the Amelia Dyer case. I've always been surprised by how little known she is, even in Reading, but killing children is exceptionally harrowing and I imagine few people want to learn the details.

[@LaSirenaSaggia]

As an American social worker & mental health clinician, this glimpse into the history of child welfare laws in the UK is absolutely fascinating! Thank you for tackling this challenging topic & covering it in such a compassionate & comprehensive way.

[@christina1wilson]

My grandmother was illiegitimate--at this time. Fortunately for her and her descendants her mother's parents learned of her being placed in an orphanage and adopted her. Least I think it was an orphanage (the supposed orphanage was in Leipzig, Germany). There were similar things elsewhere which is why I'd heard of baby farming as there was a case in Denmark about the time of my grandmother's birth.

[@sydneysmith707]

The father of a friend of mine was raised in a baby farm in 1930s London. His mother was unmarried and handed over her son to a woman living in the next street, who pretended to be respectable. The baby farmer had been released from prison only days before - her crime was for starving the children in her care. Short prison term, and no authority ensuring she didn't return to the business. He grew up and, curiously, married a woman who starved their daughters.

[@josef.martin5174]

For some odd reason, I haven't been warned about your new videos, and now, after the arrival of the one for this video, I discover with great pleasure I have a few more to watch, so, it's all good for me. Glad to be back. Best wishes, Kat, and get well soon.

[@brendacooper5729]

i read about the butterbox babies, a canadian version of a baby farm, the children were sold for adoption, usually in the United States, children who were not particularly appealing somehow did not survive past the age of two. This was going on in the 1950's.

[@silva7493]

Coming from a very small family and these days with living relatives easily counted on one hand, when I explored my family tree on Ancestry I found it shocking going back a few generations, how many families routinely had between 10 to 14 children. Now I don't know why I did, I'm certainly old enough to understand how it works. Maybe it was the sight of family after family after family, imagining what all of the young girls would face as they married, what they went through as mothers. And many didn't make it through to menopause, dying in child births gone wrong. I found overwhelming just to ponder. Well, another very interesting topic, Dr. Kat. So sad, but it happened. History! Thank you, take care.

[@KylaFuller]

I automatically assumed that baby farming was similar to dog breeding and that the abuse came to the women who bore the children

[@logarithmic7]

I remember in the 90s the CBC movie based on the true story The Butterbox Babies. Canada's version of this horrific crime. They operated a home between 1928-1947. Really disturbing stuff.

[@christinetitus6388]

Thank you Dr Kat. I hadn’t heard of Baby farmers before and this was very informative. Difficult subject to hear about but a part of history. I too love history and true crime. The level of wickedness in these inhumane acts toward innocent newborns is unfathomable! 😥

[@sapphoculloden5215]

Oddly, this is the second time this week that I have heard about murderous child farmers. I've been watching a series about the impact of the steam train in Victorian England, and they showed an advertisement that appeared to be for a baby farmer.

[@redheadrapunzel6088]

I had heard of baby farming in my abnormal psychology classes on 2002. I did some major research after that. This video was very well done Dr. Kat.

[@kirstena4001]

i appreciate you covering topics like this! I did have to duck out halfway through, as the topic was so upsetting. but don't stop covering the tough stuff!!?

[@elineeugenie5224]

Great video. I can't help but wonder what kind of trauma those women babyfarmers went through before themselves, that made them go there. I know from my own family history that abuse sticks around. Thank the gods i never had any kids myself, i wouldn't have done any better. It really gets quite overwhelming. Reading up on history of legislation, is good though. Truth💙

[@lw9649]

My grandmother was born out of wedlock in Brokenness in 1889. I found her in the 1891 UK census as a boarder. Ten years later she's living in a different household and listed as an orphan. All I know of my "great grandmother" is a name on the birth registry and nothing about my grandmother's father. I assume my grandmother was a product of work house "baby farm" program.

[@lw9649]

It should be Birkenhead, England

[@intentionallyleftblank3016]

Poor little thing, I am glad she survived and had her own family! Also, even if it is an autofill mis-correction, “Brokenness” is quite poetic. 💕

[@OzzieJayne]

Thanks for this video, I was aware of the subject as Frances Knorr was hanged in Melbourne, Australia, in 1894 for the same crime - murder of at least three babies. NZ had the far more infamous Minnie Dean, with her hat boxes. You've nudged me along a line of research I'd been meaning to look into ; local baby farming in a particular rural area of Victoria, Australia - thank you!

[@bumblebramblebranch]

Horrifying and interesting topic. I’ve heard about this before as it was also a thing here (Sweden) in the 1800s and early 1900s (the last person to be sentenced to death for this was just little over a hundred years ago), but the phenomena(?)/the women doing this were referred to as ”angel makers”

[@j.kaimori3848]

I don't know much about Sweden's but if it's like Japan's these differ in that the baby was killed on arrival, not neglected under pretences of adoption.

[@bumblebramblebranch]

@@j.kaimori3848 I think that was more common further back in time because until the late 1700s in sweden the punisment for having sex outside the bonds of marriage was death though actually executing peopole for this was uncommon from the early 1700s.

[@paddypaddy7276]

Looking forward to these October videos!!!! You always address the macabre in history respectfully!

[@patriciapalmer1377]

No one feels good with a cold and I thank you for this presentation under physical duress, your time and effort are appreciated. Pat. America

[@mindyourownbusinessplease1120]

So disgusting. How can anyone hurt the most vulnerable.

[@cr3058]

Thank you very much for doing the warning at the beginning. Doing that enabled me to click away to your other content rather than be haunted for days.

[@humanitarianH]

Bless you Dr Kat. Please rest and take care of yourself. Thank you always for doing these videos especially when you are unwell. I constantly look forward to your uploads.

[@Moriartart]

I’m currently watching you during a coffee break at work 🙏🏽love your stuff! This has always been such an eerie topic to read about and I just feel for those poor children

[@ibidthefrog]

I listened to this breastfeeding my 6 week old. Fortunately it doesn't seem to have traumatised her but it's terrible how children were treated and often still continue to be... I live in Romania and in the 90s the horrific images of the orphanages were shown to the world. alas one can still see the tragic results on the streets of the cities though thank god childcare legislation is adequate today

[@Sewingistherapy]

Thank you for the warning. As a survivor of child abuse, I can't watch. But I enjoy your channel

[@Mantuamaker]

She was very respectful, but I completely understand not being able to watch certain things. I made it through because it was Dr Kat, and she ended with an amazing message. Our stories are important, and if we need to step back and not engage in certain things in order to be able to share, then I am all for it. I just completed a year of sharing the story of my abuse and recovery. It was intense and awesome all at the same time. Thank you for taking care of yourself; it’s something that can be hard when the world says you must do something or when you are hit with messages that doing so is selfish. Do what you need to do to feel safe and to continue to heal. That is the way we stand up against our past.

[@abbyh.593]

This was horrifying. As a mother I find this all very upsetting, and it breaks my heart for all these innocent babies and women.

[@shannonhensley2942]

We still have a huge issue with maybe not baby farmers but couples who would adopt/foster but their child goes "missing" and they don't alert anyone.

[@debnesbitt6257]

It always breaks my heart when you hear of children being hurt but knowing women committed these acts makes it even harder. 😔💔

[@AdamLovesMusic]

Dr. Kat! Thank you for making a video of this practice; I am Canadian, and spent the summer working in our national Library and Archives, where I learned that many British, Irish, and Scottish children were brought to Canada (or other British colonies) to work on homestead farm, where they would later be referred to as “Home Children”. Have you heard of these kids?

[@conemadam]

Thank you for shedding more light on this horripilating and tragic practice. I suspect that this was a fairly common practice not only in England, but around the world. There’s a similar case that is well-documented that occurred (I think) in New Zealand in the mid- 19th century . I hope that you are getting better! Thank you,as always, for your enlightening presentations, especially this one that you prepared while ill. Bravo!

[@JediJan]

I don’t know of how far back but recall reading about during famine times some unwanted babies were left in the streets to perish from the cold. One written account mentioned dogs tearing apart one of these babies. I asked my mother, in her 90s, but she had never heard of such things in the past.

[@metalsomemother3021]

Very informative. Makes Oliver Twist more relatable. It appears that dismal though it was, Oliver was fortunate to survived infanthood

[@falafel7560]

My mom told me a story that my very first nanny told in secret to my grandma, because she couldn’t get over it from her previous job. Basically 20 something years ago in Ukrain when my nanny worked in a abandoned kids house for those with conditions or deformed, that were newborns when left she said that regularly the head mistress of the house would order to have windows opened or open them herself so those kids would get sick and die because the conditions of such houses were horrible and nobody came to adopt these kids, they did what they thought was humane since most of those kids wouldn’t survive anyways or basically what they thought would be a nuisance to the government since they are like vegetables. It horrifies me to such a degree I cannot forget this story and I only pray it’s no longer happening

[@elainelouve]

I believe this 100%. Back at the time the conditions in many Eastern European orphanages were widely discussed, and people wanted to adopt, but of course, those babies with disabilities etc. would go unwanted. It's truly sad.

[@HannibalFan52]

As a fan of Gilbert and Sullivan, i have been aware of the practice of baby-farming most of my life, as Little Buttercup had been a baby-farmer in her younger days. it is, in fact, a crucial plot point. As such, i cannot imagine Gilbert including the practice if all baby farmers had been as ruthless as the ones you describe in this video. However, since there was little to no oversight of the practice, the possibilities of abuse are endless. The novels of Dickens and Bronte point this up very well.

[@charachoppel3116]

In Scandinavia those women are known as Angel Makers. In his first book about Ditte, Danish author Martin Andersen Nexö tells the story of one such woman.

[@MaggieFuchs]

This story gave me chills and fills me with horror. I have never heard of baby farms.

[@christinereinhart2111]

Kind of connected to this story kind of on a side note in the 1990 a tv reporter in the USA got tired of covering stories of dead babies being found in dumpsters. So (I think she's a she) got a law passed that someone (I think mother)can drop a newborn off at a first responder building with not question asked.

[@ruthanneseven]

That's true, thankfully.

[@marthasmith2628]

I knew of the term "baby farming" from Buttercup's song in "HMS Pinafore" (1878). Buttercup's only crime was that she mixed up the babies in her care, but Victorian audiences must still have shuddered when they heard "baby farming" mentioned. I appreciate your care and thoroughness in researching and presenting such difficult topics. Thank you!

[@tynwald1000]

I was thinking the same thing...didn't realize what that term meant when Buttercup (and the rest of the company) sings that; now I know. And I'm sure it touched a lot of nerves in Victorian audiences. Gilbert was nothing if not topical, so I'm sure he threw that in there just to raise a few eyebrows!

[@SlapstickGenius23]

Sick!

[@sequoiaserenity9669]

Tysm for the warning in the beginning. I was curious but worried about watching so I tunned in anyways nervously. As soon as you said the warning I paused. I will be watching other videos and I have subbed. Thanks again!

[@romanticskeptc]

I came to true crime and history through a biography of Anne Boleyn suggested to me by my 6th grade English teacher - a lot of what happened sure seemed criminal to me, anyway. I have equally always been drawn to the tales of baby farmers. So much sadness and poverty - both economic and moral. Thank you, as always, for a thought-provoking video.

[@JubileeCreatesSomethingAmazing]

I read a book called "Parenting for a Peaceful World" that went over the history of parenthood. They talked about wet nurses who would be paid to "care for" a child till they were 2. They would take in too many and would not have enough breast milk so most would be fed gruel and kept swaddled hanging on the wall, many starved and it was deemed acceptable for only a fraction of these children to be returned at 2 (many if not most died)

[@tuathadesidhe1530]

Usually a wet nurse lived with the family of the baby she was caring for - like a live in nanny. Often she was a poor mother, whose own child had died, if she still had a living baby and it was permitted to stay with her - she had to breastfeed her employers baby before her own, but you can easily breastfeed multiple children at the same time, the supply adjusts.

[@Hippidippimahm]

@@tuathadesidhe1530 on their terrible diets I’m sure it was difficult 😥

[@tuathadesidhe1530]

@@Hippidippimahm the live in nurses and help had a much healthier diet than those that didn't live on premises.

[@lindalarsen1070]

I'm Danish, and here there was a case where a woman was arrested in 1920. She was known as "Englemagersken" - translation the female maker of angels (~angelmakeress). She was paid to take in foster children, she then killed them and supposedly disposed of them eg. in outhouses, burried, hidden in an attic and burned in her wood stove. She confessed to killing 16, was tried for 9. Some believe the number may be higher. She was caught because a young woman regretted, and wanted her baby back. After the trial, Danish laws were changed to protect foster children, and it became a governmental duty to keep up with children born out of wedlock.

[@debbierichards8182]

I'm dyslexic, as well, when you were just considered "slow." Please forgive errors in grammar. This subject hits all my buttons! Love your work!

[@marisabrown3009]

My dissertation was on this topic! I have always enjoyed the macabre side of history and this was one of the most vile acts I have ever heard of. Very interesting and informative! X

[@LampWaters]

Really interesting when you think about the timeliness of when birthing houses and birthing hospitals start to pop up too, very interesting. There's always been stories of missing babies from hospital and only been subsided by our recent social acceptance of hospital births as socially normal. But in its beginnings their were always nefarious things like missing people and experiments that seem to have been common knowledge amoung ppl and their views of institutions until recently

[@lagatita1623]

So awful babies born to parents who either don't want or cant care for them begin life already far behind those who are wanted and cared for. Sometimes they cannot ever recover.

[@MsSpiffz]

Yes, I knew about baby farming, the appalling circumstances which many women found themselves in was truly terrible. The options were terrible - they could go to a workhouse and condemn both themselves and their children to a life little better than hell on earth, they could go to a 'magdelen home' and we can see how that worked out in Ireland. The answer wasn't just to punish the women taking advantage of them in their dire need, and we still haven't got there yet - but contraception, women being able to work, legal abortion in real need, social housing and a benefit system, have gone a long way towards easing the problem. Now we just need women to be treated with decency in all areas of life.

[@tammievawter9477]

I had heard about this before, and the notes below re fabric pieces split between child and mother to identify at 'reunification.' I had to be in a good space to listen to this, and i appreciate the warning. I think it is important to discuss this history...

[@Heothbremel]

I've heard of the topic before, and the links you've included are really important, so i hope people can donate or get help as needed. ❤ the topic this time round made me want to go reread Oliver Twist, which connection i hadn't made until now. Definitely scary enough to kick the month off, tho!

[@sheriking4041]

Can you talk about the Tudor Groom of the Stool, who were they, what they did for the monarch and why that position was so sought after (or was it)

[@ReadingthePast]

Thank you for the suggestion, I’ll pop it on my list 🌟

[@annenickmom]

You have presented this history with the sensitivity and gravity it deserves but these practices are a vivid reminder that all of us around the world must be more aware and raise our voices against these and similar atrocities that are still occurring today. Thank you for your courage in sharing this presentation. May its lessons not be lost on us.

[@bookmouse2719]

I heard that in Jane Austin's family her Mother would send away the children after birth to be "'brought up in the country" and brought back when they were either 2 or 3 yrs old and I thought it was very odd and wondered if it was a common practice. Thank you for the video.

[@grievousangelic]

You sound like me, Dr. Kat! My dad was a history buff too, and also had a thing for true crime. I read about Lizzie Borden when I was about 10 or so. LOLOL. As chilling as the topic is, you presented it with compassion and respect. Take care!

[@diannehardwick950]

I think what truly horrified me was the fact that these activities were taking place during the early lives of my grandparents.

[@crustyrash]

As I was listening to this piece, two things popped into my head: (1) England can't be the only country where this was practice, and (2) it's been a relatively short time that women have had access to semi-decent birth control. Scrolling through the comments I see lots of systemic forms of child-maltreatment. It's sobering.

[@patriciagodfrey6345]

Thank you so much for doing this video; it can't have been easy for you, especially with your lovely new baby so close. I wish I could say that the contents shocked and horrified me, but after working almost 20-years in healthcare and over 10-years in the law it didn't even raise an eyebrow on me. (Why, yes, I have left those professions. Better to not eat as well and get good sleep at night.) I too have always loved history. Perhaps I'm looking for some scraps of human decency to be found here and there.

[@dewrock2622]

The terrible thing is that human trafficking is still occurring today, babies are being sold like merchandise, and not always for good reasons

[@maiskitty]

My ex's family has the dubious tittle of being one of Canada's most grusomely disfunctional family due to their baby farming activities. This scandal is know in Canada as "The Butter Box Babies". CBC did a dramatisation made for TV film about this.

[@humanitarianH]

Kind of like the homes for un wedded mothers in Ireland that the families are still getting justice from the Catholic Church.

[@ReadingthePast]

Absolutely, the things that have been coming out about this are utterly heartbreaking 💔

[@ellenbryn]

I think advertisements should not break into videos like this one with a posh woman's voice intoning solemnly, "dinner," before going on to describe some condiment I've already forgotten. I was listening while tidying, and for a split second thought I was still listening to Kat!

[@nor4205]

This was really informative and I did not know about these practices. It's important that we are taught this in today's modern society, considering the ongoing issues surrounding Abortion Rights, Women's Rights, Children's Rights, and generally as a good lesson in understanding our current social structures. Good video, I'll give you my Sub 👍