Victorian Railway Signalling // What does it all mean?

[@Taitset]

Hi folks, I just want to answer two very commonly asked questions in these comments: Q: "Why isn't 'Clear Normal Speed' green over green?" A: Given that the top light means Normal Speed and the bottom light means Medium Speed, green over green would be a conflict: it would mean both speeds simultaneously, and go against the fundamental principals of this system. Q: "Isn't it confusing to have a red light in a clear aspect?" A: In short, no. Train drivers are highly qualified in what they do, and know the system like the back of their hand. Confusion about aspects isn't really an issue. If any other frequent questions pop up I'll add them here!

[@cswvna]

It's easiest to think of the origins of this as two semaphore home arms on one post. The top arm is the NORMAL route at line speed, the lower arm is the DIVERGING route at a reduced speed. Everything is logically extrapolated from there. In New South Wales the origin is HOME over DISTANT as a distant signal on its own at night was indicated by a fixed green home light mounted above it. They never switched to using yellow anything until introducing power signalling.

[@kevinpepperell1941]

In 4 aspect signalling the B arm signal head showing a proceed indication does not necessarily indicate to a driver a diverging movement. A driver observing this signal could also indicate he is catching up to the train ahead of him and not diverging. This is speed signalling not route signalling. @@cswvna

[@NoLongerBreathedIn]

I mean, green over green is free to mean something special (I'd suggest green/green should be CBTC, and yellow/yellow for CBTC warning), as nothing else uses it. After all, if the lights are both out, how can you tell whether to use CBTC or if something's badly wrong?

[@kevinpepperell1941]

CBTC relates to a system called positive train control which controls the movement of the train. There are options where the driver can control the train movement but it is still supervised by the computer control system. CBTC uses the principles of speed signalling and all info is displayed to the driver in his cab. You don't need unwanted aspects like double greens or yellows to confuse the situation as with CBTC everything you need to know is on a screen in front of the driver. @@NoLongerBreathedIn

[@mattizard6136]

@taitset, why does metro not travel via southern cross early Sunday mornings?

[@Jakefromboat]

I love hearing this guy talk about trains. Seems like he really likes trains.

[@Waterfront32]

Woah 😮😮😮. That’s crazy

[@caner78bob]

He's trained himself well

[@LiamBriggs18]

Die, potato Nooooooo- I like trains. OH NO NO WAIT

[@lilziro1662]

@@caner78bobI love this because it’s awesome learning new stuff even randomly!

[@zeealo]

True gunzel!

[@mce_AU]

As a 41 year Melbourne Signal Maintenance Technician (retired), I agree with this video.

[@closeben]

How on Earth have you been able to retire in your 40s? Does Metro Trains pay that well??

[@mce_AU]

@@closeben 41 years of service. 1980 to 2021. Cheers.

[@JJRol.]

Probably has changed drastically by now but how did you get into the job?

[@mce_AU]

@@JJRol. Applied out of school. Form 4. about 16 years old.

[@kingey71]

Waves. 34 as a mostly Melbourne based SMT. 6 to go and I’m out early 🎉

[@rclass707]

As a suburban driver in Melbourne these signals are our bread and butter. Well explained to the novices out there.

[@thfreakinacage]

My new signal knowledge actually proved useful the other day. The train my wife gets into work is an express through train and I always go with her as my daughters day care is nearby too. On the platform next to it is a terminus train which takes the same route 3 minutes later, but with more stops. Concerningly often, the express is delayed meaning the local train goes first, and since there are no passing opportunities for the express, it ends up stuck behind this train the whole way to the city. Usually, the station staff knows this is going to happen and announces to the platform for passengers to get on the other train if the express is delayed, since they'll end up being faster that way. The other day however, the station staff came out to this platform expecting the train. I noticed however that it did not have a green signal to go through, so I checked the other side, and sure enough that train had both green, and the 3 yellow lights indicating its path through the points, so I knew the local train was going first and told my wife to get on it. A few other people did this too, but most didn't and so they ended up missing that one and waiting for the delayed through train. Probably only saved my wife maybe 3 minutes, but hey, it's 3 minutes, that's coffee time 😂👍

[@centurion8446]

You looked clued up and competent 😊

[@Majenta_Turkeysandvichs]

A few weeks ago a train broke down near Kyneton which forced services into Melbourne onto the down line. I arrived at my station very close to my train's departure time, and if I hadn't known to check the signals as I approached, I would have been on the wrong platform and missed my train. This information can be very useful in uncommon but critical situations. In response to what you said at the end, I am one of those ex-New South Welshmen who believes our signalling is better, though now that I've finally gotten my head around how it works here in Vic, I'm not an frustrated by the differences nearly as much.

[@Taitset]

Oh yeah, that's a great example! Certainly at all those stations between Sunbury and Kyneton the normal passenger information isn't great when there are unplanned changes.

[@Majenta_Turkeysandvichs]

​@Taitset Thanks for your reply :) Now that I think about it, the way you say that, in Victoria, you only need to consider one light at a time, for most of the time, actually explains why I've had so much trouble adjusting. Up in NSW, you need to consider both lights at all times since they deliver information in tandem, and that's just how I've been wired to think.

[@Kruztee]

Sydney suburban driver here. This is hilarious how different the meaning of the same light combination in NSW and Vic. Big props to drivers that have made the transition from one system to the other.

[@Crumbtrail387]

I'm an American that once worked for a railway here in the US. I think its very interesting how similar these signals are to the speed-signals in use here on our Northeast Corridor, and most of the CSX system for that matter. (you did say they're based of off North American systems after all). I really like learning about all the differences between signal systems, particularly between different continents. Strangely, I worked under a route-based system (former Southern Railway) that uses almost the same aspects as the Victorian system. Where you said you can sometimes infer the route from the speed indication, on our system, that's exactly what we do. A red-over-green would be diverging-clear as opposed to clear medium speed. We could also have any color appear on the third signal head, not just yellow. This is to display a secondary divergence, such as where there's a high speed mainline crossover and a turnout to a lower speed branch line at the same controlled junction. A Red-red yellow would still produce a low speed signal, which we call restricted speed (prepared to stop within half your sightline, never exceeding 20MPH). we would also have an advance-warning aspect, Advance Approach (yellow-yellow) meaning the signal after the next is red. This was a mouthful but I hope some Aussies find this interesting :)

[@zeealo]

Sure did!

[@oxthcar]

As an irregular user of the Frankston line, this'll be very useful to know since Glenhuntly just opened and there might be some disruptions/delays. Seriously, this is one of my favourite youtube channels. Perfect mix of funny animations and interesting things that don't get a lot of media coverage :)

[@brijekavervix7340]

I used this knowledge a couple of weeks ago to make sure I was on the first of two trains departing Ringwood when they pulled into platforms 1 and 2 simultaneously :)

[@twistedpear6]

Ex metro signaller here, good explanation. You didn’t mention disc, signals, which are unique to frankston area. Also bit of fun trivia for all you out there there are only 2 points on the network which are still manually controlled by a lever frame panel that aren’t customer service signal boxes by a signaller, Kooyong and Riversdale

[@Tekartsu]

I believe he refers to that in 0:44 with "except for a small patch in Frankstown"

[@maerklin3699]

As a German train signal tech, I like the video! It gives me a good understanding of the Australian Signals, but I cannot confirm with the CBTC system. It works similarly with the ETCS... The second train behind the first one phush a "break distance" , based on the apeed and break performance, and breaks when the train in front comes too close.

[@tryfree1]

You have done a great job explaining signals. The importance of safe working is drivers route knowledge... thats at the core of this. Kudos to all train crew in Australia. You people are very important to safety.

[@lochieant]

I've always wanted to know about Victorian train signals, and this video really helped me understand a lot more about it. Thanks Tait, as always, great content.

[@Jotrain]

Hey Taitset! Great video on how signalling works on Victorian railways! As a fellow railway enthusiast, I found it fascinating to learn about the intricacies of the system in Victoria. I'm from Queensland, Australia, and our railway signalling system is quite similar to the UK's. I was wondering if you could consider making a video about Queensland railways' signalling next? It would be awesome to see how it compares to the UK system and learn about any unique features that make our Queensland railways special! Keep up the fantastic work, and looking forward to more exciting content from your channel! 🚂

[@Taitset]

Glad you enjoyed it! I certainly hope to do a QR signal video at some point, it's on my very long 'to do' list!

[@XanCalGil]

For someone who's currently trying to get into driving trains at a late career change, this information is invaluable and delivered so well

[@McFearsome2]

"very go" Tait, your humour is as brilliant as it is subtle.

[@djt6012]

Great video. I loved your explanation. As a Hunter Valley driver who uses both single and double light NSW signalling, the Victorian signalling has always confused me. I'll have to watch this a few more times to get a better grasp of it though. Keep up the great work!

[@Taitset]

Thanks, glad you enjoyed it!

[@KadenBarker-wt3dd]

A few days ago I got my hands on the hurstbridge heritage line film on dvd. By a steam media production but this was more into the semaphore and staff and ticket system.

[@Voilabo]

I would really like to see a vid of all of the unkept line promises, and possible lines and line changes in the future, real great vids and I love noticing all these features on different commutes!

[@davidpanton3192]

Good stuff. You're right that signalling around the world varies wildly. Here in the UK we seem to manage fine without variable speed signalling, but can't see how most of the rest of the world can manage without junction indicators!

[@michlo3393]

lol it's all in the signal that precedes it.

[@pauloconnor2980]

I love watching videos of BR signalling and their use of 'Lunar lights'!

[@XTrapolis942M]

Love this. Leaping in between Vic and NSW, I always have an easier time with the Victorian signals, especially much more so than those in NSW/Sydney. The biggest beef I have in particular with the Sydney system is their normal speed warning; I reckon there should NOT be any display of green immediately before a stop signal!!!

[@seafurymike]

Thanks for making this video. i watched it twice over to ensure i picked up as much detail as i could. Given the rail signalling traverses equipment my company supplies and is on my account list, it’s nice to understand what functions run over the top.

[@BaileyChap]

Having grown up in South Australia, I had to learn UK-style route signalling AND US Speed signalling at the same time, because they both work side-by-side (such as on the Belair line, where one track is speed signalling for part of its length, and re-uses old route signals for the other part (while also still kind of being speed signalling), and the other track is fully route signalled). Long story short, this means that my "normal" signalling system comprises of TWO different systems of signalling, and I'm a bit more open to unique signalling systems. ...While NSW's signals feel weird to me (because I'm used to the "green means the next signal isn't red" mentality), I understand the logic behind having the bottom signal acting as a kind of repeater for the next signal, and instead using yellow to denote the use of a lower speed.

[@darylcheshire1618]

Was the US style influenced by Webb? A lot of station buildings from the Webb era have the US style of veranda roof over the whole building and sat on the ground with no platform.

[@BlackDrac82]

South Aussie here too, I never understood when i go to melbourne why green over red was allowable, now I (sort of) get it... however I don't see the logic of having the bottom light show red if top light is green? Is it a visibility thing? Why not just be off, or double green?

[@hannahranga]

​@@BlackDrac82would assume it's because you don't want a failed lamp to cause the signal to look like a less restrictive aspect. Having a single green be clear medium would be okay but imho arse backwards given the less restrictive clear full would green over red.

[@docdaneeka3424]

This speed signalling system was first introduced at Adelaide Station in 1915 and eventually all of SA (and Vic obviously). In the late 80s and early 90s lots of work was done around suburban Adelaide to update signalling systems which is when the UK style signals were introduced (but still with speed signalling vestiges - eg using a route indicator to exit a passing siding). The rest of SA kept the speed signalling system which is in use today. The whole 'why is clear green over red' thing is no worse than traditional (UK style) semaphore signals - at a junction multiple semaphore arms would be provided, one for each route and one would be cleared to indicate the route set - at night this could be an array of red lamps and one green lamp to indicate clear - speed signalling is no different but the lamps (or semaphore arms) are separate speeds rather than separate routes. The speed signalling system was originally adopted from the US when Adelaide Station was remodeled and it was considered that the signalling would have been too complex with route signalling (arrival signals would have needed up to six semaphore arms). Speed signalling was adopted with yellow light for caution (also new at the time), and three arm upper quadrant semaphores for home signals at Adelaide Station and Adelaide Junction. Automatic block signalling replaced absolute block between Adelaide Station, Adelaide Junction, Mile End, North Adelaide and Bowden. Victoria seems to have maintained the use of 'green over red' everywhere, whereas the standard now in SA (other than suburban network), if a signal only need to show normal speed aspects, the lower lamp is replaced with a red reflector plate (presumably for economy reasons) (I believe it is the same in NZ). Incidentally on the suburban network, permissive signals are indicated by a 'P' plate on the signal and absolute signals by an 'A' plate - the 'P' plates are offset from the main signal just as the original red marker lamps were for permissive signals (and still are in Vic and general in SA) and the 'A' plates are in line with the signal head as the marker lamps would be in the original speed signalling system.

[@zoqaeski]

If you want an example of a signalling system that is truly bizarre, the French mechanical system would surely be near the top of the list. Most signals are boards that rotate around a vertical axis (semaphores are also used), there are multiple ways of indicating Stop (permissive and absolute), and speed restrictions apply from the first set lf points, not the signal. Trains may also be required to stop on a clear signal occasionally if the previous signal displayed a particular aspect. Modern French light signals use the light aspects of the mechanical signalling.

[@trainjedi9651]

As a brit, if you look any further than surface level for our signalling system the conciseness just falls apart - it's absurd how many quirks there are (mostly because the network is centuries old) e.g. Radio-Electric Token Block Km/H speed boards & ETCS TVM SPAD Indicators Flashing aspects Up/Down tracks Anderson's Piano Semaphore signalling the list goes on it's honestly amazing how the whole thing stays together!

[@Skasaha_]

13:33 My tea is spilled I hope you are happy. I knew most of this but great video. Still learnt about what was up with the CBTC.

[@TazzieT]

Great Video! The Melbourne signalling system isn't that confusing when you know how it works! Even know it may look confusing from a person without understanding.

[@enochliu8316]

Automatic and Track Control(ATC) has a special rule. If a train is departing onto an ATC single line section on a Clear Medium Speed, (and technically Clear Low Speed) , the speed restriction only applies until the train clears the points guarded by the signal. After that, the driver may accelerate to line speed, without having to wait for the next signal.

[@enochliu8316]

@@Big-Show1Rule 2(f),Section 16 in the rulebook.

[@willtrainvideos]

Hey Martin, this is a great explanation video, I’m still trying my best to remember all of the signal meanings. Next I’d love to see an explainer on Victoria or Australian Railway Signs and what they mean.

[@Taitset]

Thanks, yes I have been thinking about doing one on signs!

[@pgchase4578043026]

I agree that Britain's signalling is easy to understand. Also, Japan is very straight forward. One that is seemingly counter-intuitive at first glance is Sweden - more green lights mean go slower, and all clear is a green over flashing white, (red means stop). But that's from a layman's view. If one is trained on the system, it becomes second nature, and there is certain logic to it.

[@Justakid199]

Another great video from the narrator of railways!

[@genoobtlp4424]

Personally I prefer the swiss type N where you have green for clear at line speed, green with number for clear at [number * 10km/h], yellow for prepare to stop, yellow with number for slow down to [number * 10km/h] and finally red for stop… pretty easy to remember and theoretically usable even on high speed rail or with reduced block lengths or any other weirdness. Additionally route indicators or voltage or gauge indicators can be provided too

[@tidmouthmilk12]

Really interesting video! I had considered to a similar topic for a video myself, though focusing on the signals from the UK, as that's where I live. As you said, our system isn't overly complicated compared to some other countries, but there's still some interesting oddities to be found I'm sure. Maybe I'll dust off that idea someday when I feel like travelling again.

[@Taitset]

I hope you do! I did make a very basic UK signal explainer a few years ago: kzbin.info/www/bejne/g5PHiKeQrZiJprc

[@gregthompson3274]

Well explained,interested in railway signalling,always look out for them on my train travels,remember back in 70s early 80s,sticking my head out the window on the red rattlers,Tait trains and watching the signal change as the train passed it

[@RemiCardona]

This signalling system is indeed very close to that of the US and Canada (not sure about Mexico). And they make my French brain hurt. Signalling here mostly looks like the UK's but with weird quirks. Great video!

[@ambroiseimbert]

I know French signaling quite well and I'm also used to it but it's much more complicated than British signaling.

[@anindrapratama]

speaking of Europe, does Italy adopt speed signalling?, their signals look like searchlights

[@ambroiseimbert]

@@anindrapratama Italy indeed uses searchlight signals however the aspects themselves don't actually work the same way. They don't have the same logic like other speed signalling systems do. There's a Wikipedia page which lists the various aspects and their meaning.

[@elia_berti]

​​​@@anindrapratamayeah Italy has searchlight signals and the system is similar to the victorian and North american one, as in there are red over green and red over yellow aspects, which you can't find anywhere else in Europe. In theory it's a speed signalling system, but not that flexible in the matter of speeds which can be communicated (only 30, 60, 100, line speed), and it's not used as pure speed signalling as the speed indication aspects are used basically only for diverging routes and for example shorter blocks than usual are indicated in other ways (with aspects which don't force a particular speed)

[@bayernbahn1549]

Great explained! I have to say that your videos about signal systems have already explained quite a few signal systems to me and I understood it all right the first time. Please keep it up! Your videos are great!

[@Taitset]

Thanks! I certainly hope to do some more in this style eventually!

[@bayernbahn1549]

@@Taitset I am excited! Greetings

[@mitchul]

That signal at 0:52 in North Geelong is interesting. Looks like they've retrofitted LEDs to an older signal body.

[@Taitset]

Yep, there were even some semaphores that got LEDs around that area!

[@TazzieT]

That Signal Body is one of few that I know of, they are quite rare from what I can tell. There is also one on both the entrance and exit to the Port of Portland (Both are incandescent still.) I've noticed both V/line and ARTC have done retrofits like that before, though Iirc they are getting removed and replaced more and more these days by modern brand new signal bodys.

[@jimsmowingofficial]

@@Taitset are there any photos of those LED semaphores?

[@Taitset]

@@jimsmowingofficial Took me a bit of searching, but I have this one photo of one at Broadford with LEDs fitted: www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/bri7m88eg8w1jnunlmj0o/20120417-7035.jpg?rlkey=hfk3l3gay3k42b43d8mvdpqbs&dl=0

[@michaelformaini7053]

Another brilliant video from you, Martin! And the order of explanation follows logically from the simplest concepts through to the full range of signal aspects and the order in which a train driver has to observe and respond to them. The brief explanation on Communications Based Train Control at the end was well illustrated, although I have yet to verify if the buffer zone for each equipped train is in the rear as you show it, in front (as one other commentator states) or on both ends of such trains. As someone else has mentioned, blue is now a recognised colour for dwarf signals at the stop aspect and within the latest update to the Rules and Operating Procedures. Rob McFarlane also gives a concise addendum on Caution Orders in the comments (Thanks, Rob!). A useful addition to this presentation (should you wish to further explore the topic) would be an explanation of the Train Protection and Warning System and how it is applied to Home Signals as well as the physical Indicators, Communication Antennae and Transponder Grids for CBTC overlaying the mixed signalling between South Yarra and Clayton; also between South Kensington and West Footscray. (I'm sure you may know a current signalling professional that might help in that regard.) Aside from a few graphic overlay conflicts between signal aspects and point positions (which only hawk eye former professionals like me would notice), this would be an excellent introductory video for those starting off in signals school at the Metro Academy or Safeworking Solutions. The wider railfan community should certainly appreciate your efforts. Well done! Oh.. and as a postscript, I caught up with your Diamond Creek Bicycle video only early this week and posted a complimentary comment on that one too. Cheers from Michael.🙂

[@Taitset]

Thanks Michael, I was wondering if anyone would notice the position of the points! 😉

[@michaelformaini7053]

Comes from many years of proof reading and looking for what's wrong! Again, loved your bike ride and posted a comment on that one.🙂 @@Taitset

[@steveallen1340]

You put a lot of effort into making this video, thank you.

[@afkjanus]

Very nice video. I for myself live in Germany and I have to say that the Victorian system seams to be much simpler than the German one, which uses more lights and different forms for distant and main signals. But for me this simplicity comes at a price. Namely the big safety hazard of driving through red lights. In Germany you would never drive through a red light. This is due to the fact that you could get used to driving when shown red. One might say that two red lights may be a clear indication but days can be stressful and you might just see one red light and think that the other one was green. Or even see both red lights but continue since you aren't trained to stop at red anymore. In addition this safety hazard can be mitigated quite easy, the second red light isn't necessary, it just indicates if the active signal is above or below. So just use an indication light instead of the red one. I would propose white since it is a neutral color and get the job done quiet well.

[@linuxbot3000]

White really wasn't practical back when the system was invented, gets tricky to make it distinct from yellow especially when you're starting with gas/oil lamps on semaphore lenses.

[@kberkstr]

Interestingly enough, some railroads here in North America do just that, where unnecessary red aspects are simply turned off. However, for slow speed and "restricted" (meaning proceed able to stop within visual range of any danger) indications the upper red light is still necessary. This system was originally created here for the old semaphore signals, and it was impractical at the time to have a specific marker aspect (the only options were horizontal stop, diagonal caution, and vertical proceed) so the "stop" aspect was used with the understanding that a train may not proceed in the absence of a clear "proceed" indication. Even early electric lighting technology (such as Position light signals and the US&S "searchlight" type signal) was limited to showing 3 unique aspects, and the least problematic solution at the time was to simply map the old semaphore aspects on to the new colored lights.

[@robmcfarlane3602]

Just a note on trains passing home signals at stop (defective) They need a caution order depending on the safeworking system involved if Home signals protect points, junctions or level crossings (tram Squares) or the entrance to a single line section. A caution order has to be written by the signaller and can be handed to the driver personally or dictated over the radio. A verbal permission is only given at Home signals or Intermediate (automatic) Home signals that do not protect anything but a train ahead. For ABS (automatic block signalling) a signallers caution order is issued.....For single line sections an ATC (automatic and track control) Caution Order has to be issued. Both have different procedures to adhere too before letting a train proceed past a defective signal.

[@darylcheshire1618]

I remember when Cheltenham yard was abolished and there was this dwarf signal still standing illuminated in a landscaped garden. It was gone in a short time before I could come back with a camera. Another Cheltenham story, when the station was at ground level there was a dead end siding where local trains terminated and ran back to Melbourne. But at the Frankston end of the up track there was a signal facing the wrong way, this is if there was a disabled train in the dead end platform and a scheduled local train arrives. It will terminate on the up track after crossing over from the down track. So this signal is protecting the level crossing and allowing a train to terminate on the running line.

[@borangle8585]

Very true, and there was a 'speed proving' train stop just prior to this dwarf signal to check the speed of the train to ensure it doesn't exceed its authority and enter the LX. All gone now of course.

[@darylcheshire1618]

@@borangle8585 It was a bricquette siding, I don’t think E classes had brake trips.

[@stephenomeara4338]

A most excellent explanation! Well done.

[@ZaphodHarkonnen]

You’ll often hear the letter route signals referred to as Theatre Box indicators. My guess being they look like how theatres would do illuminated letters on outdoor signage many decades ago.

[@hoverhead047]

Well done! Couldn't have been done better than when I learned them in 1978.

[@wainber1]

When I think of railway signalling in the Australian state of Victoria, I think of common railway signals used by Jacksonville, Florida-based railway company CSX on its lines, and explanations by Danny Harmon, the Distant Signal KZbin man.

[@Rheilffordd]

Fantastic video! You did a good job when I learnt what the “S” and the “V” was between the gauge signals! If time permits, I’d also be intrigued to see a Patreon only behind the scenes of how you did those sick animations of trains and blocks 😜

[@Taitset]

Yes I'm pretty sure that will be the next behind the scenes video!

[@Rheilffordd]

@@Taitset Excellent, look forward to it!

[@vojtasTS29]

Coming from a country that also uses US Relay interlocking derived speed signalling - imported through the Soviet Union, i actually think the Victorian system is the best there is. Our signals are always spaced the same distance apart on the entire line derived from it's maximum allowed speed - which leads to confusion with tons of repeating signals everywhere where you need them to be any closer to convey a message that would be put much more safely by simply showing the correct aspect with a reduced speed at the correct braking distance from said speed. The lights and indicators system is much simpler as well - we have different combinations of two lights and coloured bars where the bottom light and bars show the next section speed and the top light by either being still, blinking slowly or quickly and it's colour shows the speed on the next signal. this can be used for all speeds from 40 to 100 km/h in 20 km/h increments. If any other speeds are to be shown, both the top and bottom lights can get their own number indicator as well. The Victorian signalling is so simple, just two lights showing each "how many sections the speed applies to". Amazing.

[@hannahranga]

Admittedly yes the first signalling system I've learnt but the PTA's (WA's urban network) does seem to be the simplest. It's primarily 3 aspect signals with Clear, Caution and Stop (plus the occasional shunt/dwarf) with speed boards and feathers instead of speed based aspects. Do you know what the CBTC trains will show in cab to the drivers? I'll also add that occasionally controlled signals are installed outside of junctions in order to have more signals that can be used as protection by track workers.

[@albertotognoni4819]

Yellow over green same meaning in Italy warning of speed restriction due a switch, fixed 30 km/h, flashing 60 km/h, 100 km/h when they alternate flash. Same meaning of red over green here in Italy speed restriction due a turnout but 30 km/h max, higher speeds are signaled by an ausiliary speed indicator: one bar mean 60 km/h, two bars mean 100 km/h

[@kyleboschen6220]

Sitting on my train home (Alamein line!) And its like a whole new world after i watched this today! 🎉🎉😮

[@WillJamesRailways]

Another fantastic and fascinating video!

[@Taitset]

Thanks Will!

[@albertotognoni4819]

Italian drivers with medium speed aspects and caution of medium speed aspects will be at home, because is the same colour combination that is used in Italy.(Y/G for caution of reduced speed for diverging (Y/G is 30 km/h, Yx/Gx is 60 km and Yx./Gx. Is for 100 km/h) R/G is reduced speed for diverging(30 km/h unless indicated as - for 60 km/h or as = for 100 km/h)

[@alpal178]

Our instructor in "Cleaners Class" at Dynon in the 70's couldn't have explained it any better.

[@a-person_0]

This is insane he complimented my country for the railways

[@Thetiersofmadness]

Fantastic, could you make an explainer on 2 position signalling, and I was wondering why Frankston still uses it, and if there is 1 repeater at the down end of the station towards Stony point, shouldn’t there be another repeater to tell the driver of the next 3 position signal on the up?

[@FromtheWindowSeat]

Great stuff Martin. Thanks!

[@kimfamily6119]

Im a train driver and just saying this is correct and explained well

[@Steamtostay]

18:00 - I think it'd be more accurate to say the moving blocks in CBTC are projected forwards from the front of each train, variable length according to speed?

[@thefmi5209]

Excellent video. And your train graphics are so cute!

[@darylcheshire1618]

one day on the Frankston line in VR days a car was hit by a train at Mentone, they then ran trains down the wrong line crossing over at Cheltenham, running down the up track and crossing back at Mordialloc. I think this would have used a pilot-man who rides with the driver and no trains can proceed without the pilot. Sort of like a human staff. I don’t think the private companies dare do that now and would stop everything and put people on buses. In those days the signal boxes were manned and the signalman could issue a wrong line order.

[@DarrenChilvers]

Thank you for the video and supporting uk signalling

[@MRTransportVideos]

A very interesting discussion of a system of signalling that, although experimented with in Great Britian, was never seriously considered; your relative lack of use of directional indicators is quite interesting, as they are very common here; the "feather" variety is used in places where there are ususally two or three route options, and are always placed ABOVE the signal head. Because they can provide six junction options, they have a great deal of flexibility in operation, however it's rare to see more than three feathers on a signal. For larger junctions, or termini, the "Theater" indicator is used which, as you point out, can be used to show routes or platforms - these are placed above, beside or below the signal head, depending on location. We don't really use co-acting signals in the way Victoria does, owing to the potential for confusion (the example you showed be a BiDi route), while we've recently started updating out Banner Repeaters from two-aspect (horizontal line on a white circle - stop, diagonal line on a white circle - caution or proceed) to three (horizontal line on a white circle - stop, diagonal line on a white circle - caution, diagonal line on a GREEN circle - proceed). Keep up the good work!

[@mariejuku]

yessss i was waiting for this one to get a voiceover :)

[@ashcustomworks]

Very interesting! Our signalling in Auckland is very similar. All the same basic indications, but slightly different names - Warning = Caution, etc. We use the same letter route indicators and banner indicators. No co-acting signals or repeaters. Low speed here is 25km/ with the same terms. Medium is 25 unless indicated otherwise. Usually 40 or 60, but ETCS sometimes allows EMUs to go faster than other trains like 30 over 25km/h turnouts. We don't have two reds after an occupied section and no medium indications before a red. ETCS applies a calculated speed limit curve on approach to a red or a lower speed limit and speed indicators hit other trains with a 20km/h limit when approaching a junction occupied by a conflicting movement. We have A-lights and offset (permissive) signals with similar rules, but applied in different ways. I do wonder whether there are equivalents to things we have like departure signals (governing entry to a block section when departing station limits) that a driver or signaller may describe differently to a layman. Even within the industry there's a broad spectrum of understanding of this system. In training even the tutors didn't all seem to understand or explain it in the same way.

[@ashcustomworks]

One of the things you said and that some tutors say is the red means stop, which is intuitive and functionally correct in a sense, but when you get into the guts if it, red doesn't actually mean stop. It's just a placeholder. In reality, everything means stop unless you have a clear, legal and expected indication of a movement authority. Two reds is definitely stop, but one red and another colour is proceed. Any blank light is stop. Two greens or two yellows is stop. A proceed into a route you're not supposed to be taking is stop. All signals are stop until they're a legitimate proceed.

[@IESpotter]

Great video! I actually agree with you. I find Irish signalling the easiest (it's basically a simplified UK version!) and I actually find most types of Australian signalling really complex. Nonetheless excellent video as usual!

[@hannahranga]

If you really want signals for dummies there's how WA does it, 3 aspects green, yellow and red. Routes are done with feather indicators or illuminated characters in more complicated areas. For speeds it's sign posted.

[@IESpotter]

@@hannahranga sounds exactly the same as Ireland except we have double amber on busy lines. Feathers tend to only he in the cities as well.

[@ChrisGuiver]

This was most interesting, enjoyable & informative. Thank you for the great video.

[@michaelmcdonald3275]

I worked in IT for AMTL/Connex at Burnley back in the day when Norm Grady and Dale Rattle were running things there (22-23 yeara go now). At that time the desktop PC's were being upgraded to Windows 2000. However it was either and Amstrad or Amiga ( started with A I can't exactly rememeber) controlling the boom gates at Clifton Hill. They decided it was such a reliable system they wouldn't poison it with Microsoft.

[@PerthLuxury]

Melbourne is also now only just phasing in TPWS to some signals... Perth has had a variant of ATP since 92 supposedly, yet a train recently spadded a signal near Perth central and wasn't stopped immediately, as it would have been, under pure ATP. Pure ATP, whilst expensive, is the gold standard for a reason

[@Taitset]

We've had TPWS since the start of RFR (about 2004), but only V/line trains are fitted and it's only on a handful of signals in the suburban area on routes shared with v/line. All suburban trains have mechanical tripcocks, which do a pretty good job despite being old technology.

[@asapsteamcleann]

Really awesome video

[@thetransporthub]

18:27 to 18:49 best bit of the whole video! (I might be a bit bias being from the UK)

[@melkiorwiseman5234]

The UK system seems a lot easier to understand. They have green, double-yellow, yellow & red. The double-yellow is used both for high-speed lines, to give extra warning that the next signal is at caution, and also to warn that the train is approaching points which are set to diverge.

[@andykrey]

"Yeah, but how fast can I go?"

[@et072]

Usually when i'm at my local station, when a train arrives to stop and pick up passengers it sometimes displays green over red (clear normal speed). Wouldn't it have to display stop because the train stops at the station? and do the signals display green over red for express trains when passing through a station?

[@Taitset]

In most cases, signals don't really have any bearing on whether a train stops at a station or not. There are some cases where a level crossing is close to the end of the platform, where the signal will stay red for an extended time as a stopping train pulls in to allow the crossing to activate later, but if there's no crossing, then the signal will be green is the route ahead is clear, regardless of whether the next train stops. (Might be able to explain more if you can tell me which station it is!)

[@et072]

@@Taitset Aah thank you. This clears it up!

[@MBkufel]

I kidna want to make a video about how Polish signalling works. Comparison to those US-derived systems may be a culture shock for some people.

[@fauzirahman3285]

Thank you for giving a layperson like me a brief explanation of 🅱ictorian Railway Signalling

[@kleinesfilmroellchen]

Having learned German H/V first, the lack of pre-signaling and red lights at proceed signals is clearly insane :)

[@ambroiseimbert]

I live in Belgium. Here, speed signaling is also used. However it's very different from the system used in Victoria and the signals are weirdly shaped. It's far from being intuitive and also has a unique approach to flashing aspects. Nevertheless, I think Victorian signals are simpler, and I also do agree that the UK has the simplest system.

[@CattoRayTube]

Is the speed signalling covering more than just standardised normal, medium and slow speeds?

[@ambroiseimbert]

@@CattoRayTube It's essentially designed to cover any specific speed. Not all signals can display a speed restriction. The ones that can have it displayed as a white number. The speed is indicated in 10's of km/h. When a signal displays a horizontal combination of green and yellow, this means the driver has to slow down to the specified speed by the next signal. If no speed is specified or the display is broken, the driver should slow down to 40. The most common speed restrictions are 40, 60, 80, and 120.

[@bryan3550]

OMG. No wonder I've always struggled to understand this stuff. Going to have to watch this brilliant explanation a few more times.. 🥴

[@slr155]

FYI Blue was added to the 1994 BOR in Revision 7 a few years ago.

[@lehanjones242]

Love those little train drawings!

[@Taitset]

Thankyou!

[@Sid3y]

As a train driver from Germany, these signals are very different to what we know. To me it is insane that a red signal can be passed under normal circumstances. Red always means stop and may only be passed when shunting and it is permitted by an additional signal (Sh 1) or when you get an order from the signaller to pass a signal at fault. To be honest, I prefer our precaution system, as a red signal automatically alerts you and it may not be passed on a normal train service

[@mrewan6221]

Canada has sort-of the opposite: "If it's not all red, it's not red at all", which means red lights are ignored if there is any green or yellow, either of which may be solid of flashing. The reds become place-holders so the viewer can see which whether the green/yellow light is top/middle/bottom. Yes, there are three heads on many signals! If there are only two heads, and the upper one is red, an imaginary red head is added above, or if the upper head isn't red, an imaginary red head is added below. If there is only one head, two imaginary red heads are added above. With six different aspects (red can also flash, which still doesn't mean "stop") and three positions there are a massive 216 different combinations. Some are not used, but all that are used have at least one real or imaginary red head. It's only the red/red/red, imaginary-red/red/red, and imaginary-red/imaginary-red/red signals that really mean STOP.

[@hooliganarfza15]

Another great video taitset, is there any chance you could do another one of your marvellous videos on ‘catenary’ of the Melbourne suburban system or Sydney? Keep the videos rolling mate, they are sooo goood! I love your videos so much.

[@Taitset]

Thankyou! It's possible I will do something about electrification eventually, it has a very interesting history here!

[@hooliganarfza15]

Cause you truly are covering all the juicy gunzel curious topics! But Melbournes catenary is very interesting, covering all the styles and different years of gantries and pylons, dead end stanchions, weights and pulleys. It’s a very beautiful and needed piece of infrastructure! Seriously your narrations and motion graphics with highlight colours and maps are perfect! Also could you do one on what station names should really be named, some stations in Melbourne are so incorrect it’s a sham! Like south morang should be called mill park, amd middle gorge should be called south morang 🙄, the people that decide these names are ridiculous. Theirs heaps of stations ! I can help you out… the correct geographical name should override regardless of historical context, Collingwood Stn should be Abbotsford, and Burwood on the Alamein line LOL!!!!

[@hazel7256]

As a brit, well explained and very concise

[@hktramguy]

Thanks for explaining! I definitely learnt a lot from that

[@darkowl9]

So what I really get from this, is that train drivers can't be colourblind. I don't quite know why some lights use the same physical space where some separate out each light.

[@Taitset]

Correct, they can't be colour blind.

[@griffonboi]

The very first CBTC run with passengers was completed today in fact!

[@ZenoriteProductions]

Could you cover German signals with the H/V, Hl, and Ks signals? Since you mentioned them in the Austrian Railway signalling Video.

[@pharmajoe990]

Awesome explanation, thanks heaps mate! Love your videos

[@prydeofclyde1891]

So many happy memories of that 10000 page safeworking book that had to be memorised.

[@ivan_krazy]

The new high capacity signalling will only work in the metro tunnel, outside of the tunnel itself the conventional block system is the way as vline services use these tracks too. I thought it was the entire journey from Pakenham/Sunbury and vice versa but unfortunately not. Defeats the purpose of high capacity signalling for such a small segment!

[@Taitset]

It certainty is going to be used outside the tunnel, in fact it's already active between South Yarra and Clayton. The conventional signals work alongside it for other trains. Video of it in use here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/n4Owq3ZrrrWIlaMsi=oD6NRijZYzUnf7gV

[@ivan_krazy]

@@Taitset oh thank you for this, great news 🙏

[@namenamename390]

It really seems counterintuitive that red is involved at all for the signal "proceed at line speed". I guess it makes sense when you know that the most important part of the signal is _where_ the green/yellow light is positioned, but coming from a country where red can only mean stop, it feels really strange.

[@paulorocky]

Is the Metro Tunnel signalling similar to that proposed for Brisbane’s Cross River Rail?

[@Justin.87]

Pretty sure theres a feather type route indicator at Tottenham on the standard gauge. Its been a while since I've been through there though

[@mrewan6221]

For a while at the north end of Royal Park station, there was a stub of the Inner Circle line remaining. The signal protecting it looked like Red over Red with a small, lit Red. I couldn't find the meaning in any reference (although I didn't have anything official), so maybe the small Red was something separate. But the meaning was pretty obvious: Very Stop.

[@Taitset]

Interesting, was it a semaphore signal? I'll have to try to find a photo.

[@mrewan6221]

@@Taitset No, just a typical two-head plus small signal. My borther was a driver in Sydney so I learned the signals there, only to discover Victoria was very different. So it was something I noticed as not normal.

[@Taitset]

@@mrewan6221 Found a picture here: www.westonlangford.com/media/photos/114987.jpg Even though it looks like a red blob here, that bottom light is an illuminated red letter 'A.' This means the signal is switched out and operating automatically, despite being a Home signal. The 'A' only lights up when the signal is at stop, there's another picture here (a bit hard to see) showing it at green over red, with the 'A' turned off: www.westonlangford.com/media/photos/114487.jpg To the right of the A is the Low Speed light, which is off in both photos. This diagram: victorianrailways.net/signaling/completedia/fbridgecob72.html Shows the signal as being equipped with an A, although it shows it in a different position. There aren't many signals left like that, but there's one nearby on the up line at Macaulay.

[@mrewan6221]

@@Taitset I remember the signal as being on the stub. not the down Upfield track. But there's nothing on the diagram, so maybe I'm mis-remembering it. I could well have walked to the down end of the up platform, if there was a good wait for the next train. But equally, it could habe been a red A. Maybe my glasses didn't match my vision at the time.

[@VhenRaTheRaptor]

This isn't too dissimilar to how signalling works in Auckland as I understand. Though we have a blinking yellow signal as well. Blinking yellow over red means proceed at normal speed, next signal is caution normal speed. [and thus two signals from blinking yellow over red is red over red]

[@Taitset]

Yes, NZ signalling is very interesting and closely related to this! I might make a specific video about it at some point.

[@richardvoogd705]

It's also similar to what's used a few hundred km further south, in Wellington. I think it's mainly speed based, but it's sometimes possible to infer a divergent route is to be taken, e.g. when pulling into a different platform to usual. The nearest station to where I live also has a nearby level crossing. Freight trains get a green signal, and the barrier ams etc get triggered sooner than for passenger trains, which get a red signal until the barrier arms go down, resulting in less disruption to road traffic while loading and unloading passengers.

[@Taitset]

@@richardvoogd705 That situation with the level crossing would be based on express/stopping, rather than freight/passenger specifically. We have the same thing in Victoria, it's either selected manually by the signaller, or chosen based on the train's behaviour at a previous location.

[@JK-bz7ij]

Am I the only one who noticed that Coldstream is set on the Hitachi at 17:05? Is this an Easter egg or something, cause the station has been closed since the 80s??

[@Taitset]

Mechanical destination blinds usually included several 'what if' destinations that were thought to be likley extensions at the time. Hitachis also had places like East Doncaster and Melbourne Airport. Drivers often put them up for fun, although in that particular photo I might have just taken it while it was scrolling.

[@JimSim117]

Great video! As a daily passenger on the Cranbourne/Pakenham line, my ears pricked up when you said the signal lights will no longer be used. Does this mean an end to the cancellations and delays "due to a signalling fault" on this line?

[@Taitset]

In theory it should be more reliable - but I'm sure there will still be the occasional issue!

[@ppTM-transport]

11:14 look to the left theres track with 7 rails and a light showing stop

[@PietMeijer_DE-III]

I'm a Dutch citizen and I was very interested in these way of railway signaling. Thanks for the explanation! It's a pity that the speaker speaks so fast that I could not understand what he was saying, so I had to turn on the subtitles. Maybe in a next version of this subject a peaker who speaks a bit slower? 😅

[@Taitset]

Haha sorry, that's as slow as I can go. I used to talk at least twice that speed when I was younger!