Villain Therapy: THANOS

[@CinemaTherapyShow]

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[@midnightaurora9483]

Better help is a scammmmm

[@smellyjimbo4537]

This is why I'm unsubscribing from Cinema Therapy.

[@CinemaTherapyShow]

Jonathan here. Some of you have asked why we choose to work with BetterHelp and have shared your concerns. I did A LOT of research on this before we made a decision, which I'd like to share with you here: www.reddit.com/r/cinema_therapy/comments/1dpriql/addressing_the_betterhelp_concerns_headon_deep/

[@CinemaTherapyShow]

@@smellyjimbo4537 before you do, please read this: www.reddit.com/r/cinema_therapy/comments/1dpriql/addressing_the_betterhelp_concerns_headon_deep/

[@CinemaTherapyShow]

@@midnightaurora9483 I'd be curious to know your thoughts after reading this :) www.reddit.com/r/cinema_therapy/comments/1dpriql/addressing_the_betterhelp_concerns_headon_deep/

[@jju00]

Thanos: I am inevitable Jono: And I'm Jonathan Decker licensed Therapist

[@Quartermistress]

**Snap**

[@AliceDjinger]

Who loves movies!

[@shardinhand1243]

instantly snaps thanos'es neck XD

[@matthewquach2705]

Dusts Thanos' entire army

[@heartscapesreiki1496]

😂 You win

[@AbbyRobinett-wh2jw]

"But it made you stronger." "I was a child, I didn't need to be stronger." Don't remember where I heard this but I think it fits the topic.

[@zacharyjamesdixon]

Reminds me of the Franz Kafka (I think it was) quote. “I know it is my father's first time on this Earth, too. And I know he had it worse when he was little. But I was little too.”

[@Astro2024]

Nebula: "You were the one who wanted to win and I just needed a sister!" hits hard

[@DanteRU0312]

It reminds me of something from a game or a movie, something like "I was a child, I needed love and affection, not to be stronger". Now I'm curious where was it from.

[@afrosamourai400]

the "i made you stronger" is the classic excuse for abusive parents or relationships

[@MegaChickenfish]

Ozai: It was to teach you respect. Zuko: *It was CRUEL. and it was wrong.*

[@cheezemonkeyeater]

Something I'm surprised a lot of people miss is that Thanos isn't actually motivated by his desire to save the universe, that's just the justification for his actions. What actually motivates Thanos is a need to prove himself correct. The world he lived on died because, in his mind, they didn't do what he told them to do, so now he has to do what he wanted to do to the entire universe to prove himself right. He's driven by ego, but what's so frightening is that he doesn't *realize* that he is. The proof is in the next movie, where Thanos learns that after his success, people weren't grateful, so he decides that he's going to destroy everything and remake the universe in a way that nobody knows what they lose so that they will praise him.

[@feralmeditations8520]

Absolutely fascinating

[@uneducatedpineapple4119]

That would handily explain why he didn’t consider any other options as well. If his whole quest was an exercise in vindication then he’d just be ignoring other options whether he realised it or not

[@KN-op3et]

Yes -- anyone who has any family or friends in academic science has seen that personality/ego.

[@hugomendoza5665]

Hm almost. He doesn’t want praise. He doesn’t want the universe to be grateful *toward him*. He wants the universe to be grateful for their new fate. I think he adjusts in a way that makes sense. “I saved the universe, but in their short sighted hubris they sought to undo my work. Now I realize that in order to truly save them, they must not have any memory of how they were saved.” I really don’t think it is ego driven even then. It’s batshit, but not selfish.

[@asmalldragon]

Whenever people start saying 'thanos was right' or anything like that, I like to make the argument that with all the infinity stones he could have snapped and made it like a foundational law of the universe that resources are shared equitably or something. Like he had infinite power and options to solve the problems he apparently wanted to solve. But he's so twisted and evil that all he could think to do was kill on an impossibly huge scale and, at the same time, he needed to have his ego, life, and everything tied to him being the one to do the killing. He was right to identify inequality as a problem to be solved, but he 'solved' it in the most villainous way possible.

[@hannahschrenk7981]

Let's be clear, he didn't adopt her. He kidnapped her after murdering her family, then abused and tortured her. He didn't alter Gamora as much as Nebula, but they do say she has some enhancements, which means he absolutely experimented on her against her will (doesn't matter if she agreed in the moment, since she was never in a position to safely disagree, making consent moot).

[@matityaloran9157]

Good point

[@RigelDeneb172]

Absolutely!

[@Jackal_El_Lobo34]

@@hannahschrenk7981 Glad we’re not enabling Thanos’s methods.

[@moonwhooper]

​@@Jackal_El_Lobo34people are?

[@Jackal_El_Lobo34]

@@moonwhooper I've sadly seen people that defend Thanos for what he did. Super bizarre.

[@bextaylor110]

Man, I never realized the narcissistic family dynamic before now: Gamora is the golden child and Nebula is the scapegoat but both wanted the love and affection of their narcissistic dad, Thanos-BUT how they heal their sisterly relationship just warms the heart.

[@scottibrown3274]

And then you see in Guardians 3, even though it’s Gamora from the first Guardians movie (so 2014 I think), they still heal their sisterly relationship.

[@kurisu7885]

Not to mention Nebula literally got to shoot her worst past self.

[@zacharyjamesdixon]

That moment in guardians 2 where nebula says, “You were the one who wanted to win. And I just wanted a sister!” Gets me every time.

[@Jackal_El_Lobo34]

@@bextaylor110 Yeah I completely agree. To be honest, I’m actually confused as to why Cinema Therapy’s hosts said that Thanos wasn’t a narcissist but rather just a “goal driven zealot”. That doesn’t make much sense given that a lot of Thanos’s behavior in Infinity War and especially Endgame does align with patterns typically associated with NPD involving gaslighting, exploitation, grandiosity, interpersonal dominance, and a lack of empathy. I feel like the hosts in the episode missed those signs with their analysis because they were just too intrigued with his character. Despite having the capacity for emotion, Thanos is definitely egotistical and grandiose when you examine his motives and actions.

[@RiveroftheWither]

It's also interesting in how their rolls swapped off. Nebula after finally being free of Thanos joined the Ravagers thinking she had no worth outside of being a tortured killing machine and Gamora joined with the other Guardians out of necessity and after a while slowly and begrudgingly started to bond with them. However when that Gamora is killed and is replaced with a past version who doesn't have that bond formed of necessity with the other Guardians, she joins the Ravagers. Not because she feels she has to like Nebula but because she wants to and truly thrives with them as her CHOSEN found family. Meanwhile when Nebula gets shown care, compassion and acceptance in the awkward and blundering way only the Guardians are capable of, she chooses to join them and leave the Ravagers because this kind of love and acceptance is what she's been starved for her whole life.

[@IromoBeric]

There are parallel scenes that people might not have noticed. Gamora was dragged by the soldier when she was young, hitting him until he let go. Thanos then stepped in and "saved" (kidnapped) her. Years later, as an adult, Thanos drags her towards the cliff, Gamora hitting him just like she did to the guard, but instead of "saving" her as he once did, he lets go and throws her off the cliff. I believe the scenes parallel each other and emphasize the reality of their relationship.

[@SinHurr]

Excellent catch.

[@wyvernhattori1811]

I'm destroyed everytime by the thing she said in the first Gotg movie: "I've lived my life amongst enemies. I would be glad to die among friends." and then she dies alone on this f****ng planet by the hands of Thanos.

[@MotherOfOwlbears]

Yes. He was basically just keeping her alive until he needed her. For that very moment. Like her entire life was nothing but a blip between those events to him.

[@padams5461]

@@MotherOfOwlbears It also explains why he was HER to find the Soul Stone.

[@pastorneil9125]

@@padams5461 I don't think he expected the cost of the soul stone. He looks surprised when he is told the cost. He sent her because he trusted her the most. She is the one that never fails him. I don't think he planned for her to be sacrificed. As they mentioned in the video, his vision was that after his quest was accomplished, she would sit upon the throne overlooking the universe he had made right (in his mind).

[@kycheros]

My aunt had my niece only so she would take care of her when she became old. Those were her actual words back when she made the choice over 30 years ago. She made her study something health related and basically made her nurse her after she became sick until she passed in her late 60's. My niece, who is in her late 30's, has never had a relationship or a lasting friendship, she doesn't know how to take care of herself without her mother telling her what to do. She was an asset to my aunt, nothing more.

[@voidwalker7774]

Damn thats sad.

[@jessmacc-504]

I am so sorry to hear this. Whenever I hear of parent/child relationships like this, it makes me think of parents with Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Their children are only an extension of them. Their children are only there to serve their needs. To people like them, their children do not have needs of their own. Sad, and selfish.

[@USSAnimeNCC-]

Then their people who view it as a duty to pass down the family name even tho their not qualify to be parents

[@gryffinclaw]

Do you mean your sister had your niece or your aunt had your cousin? I'm confused.

[@jshrhrgahhuehtnmppl]

@@gryffinclawI think he means his aunt had his cousin

[@FluffyPrincess888]

so at the soul stone scene, I go with the Cinema Wins interpretation of it's not that the Stone accepts Thanos's messed up relationship as love, but rather the Stone acknowledges that HE *believes* what he's doing is love

[@lightdarksoul2097]

Yeah what he feels is the closest thing to love he can feel if it is or isn't isn't the point. I go with the theory that this whole thing was Odin's doing as this screams his kind of test. Just like the question of worthiness isn't up to you but what Odin would see as worthy

[@FluffyPrincess888]

@@lightdarksoul2097 exactly. marvel parents, everybody!!!

[@lightdarksoul2097]

@@FluffyPrincess888 Thats why I do like our heroes being parents. Scott, Clint, Bruce, Tony, Thor, Rocket, All are better parents than what they would have been at the beginning of their journeys. The writing isn't flawless obviously but I like seeing the moments where heroes are shown to be positive figures in their kid's lives. Especially dads as they can easily get a bad rep

[@AWSVids]

The exact worded parameters of the sacrifice is that you have to "give up the thing you love THE MOST"... not just "the thing you love". Maybe Thanos doesn't actually love anything... but Gamora is just the thing that comes the closest. Maybe he loves her like 40%, but that's the closest he comes to actually loving something. Everything else, he either hates or just views in a coldly detached way, including himself. Gamora is the thing he loves THE MOST, even if he doesn't actually fully love her. He has affection, he wants her in his life, he's given her protection and raised her, he tries to think about her needs, feeds her, and at least treated her better than he did Nebula, etc... that may not be ALL the parts of love, but it's some of them, and it's more of them than he has for anything else.

[@Rebelheart1985]

Kinda yeah. Thanos probably does love her considering he was crying there but it’s conditional, toxic, narcissistic, and abusive. He believes that he loves her and Nebula but he isn’t really capable of showing actual love to anybody. Hell he was willing to kill Gamora for that stone. That isn’t love. Neither is destroying her home/killing her people, playing mind games with her and Peter Quill. Neither is torturing Nebula for information that Gamora knew about.

[@joshawott.]

3:30 I’d push back a bit on Thanos not being sadistic. What he did to Nebula, pitting her against her adoptive sister and dismembering and replacing her body parts when she failed to measure up, scarred her physically and mentally. There was also the time where he killed all but one of the dwarves in Nidavellir and mutilated Eitri, the only remaining dwarf. To quote Red from OSP, “what part of that was perfectly balanced?” While both of these events take place off screen, they paint a picture of who Thanos is in the dark and it’s a chilling portrait

[@matityaloran9157]

I’d add that in Guardians of the Galaxy he kills his right-hand man out of pique

[@hugomendoza5665]

I would call those laps of judgment. I also think he sometimes decided more extreme measures (instead of perfect balance) if he believes that it will serve his goal more strategically. For example, allowing the dwarves to be able to make more weapons (the only ones that can oppose the gauntlet) would be a huge liability to his goal. So he has to wipe them out.

[@mia-saraking5479]

@@hugomendoza5665 A lapse of judgement is something you do once. He tore Nebula apart over and over again because he wanted to. If that's not sadistic i don't know what is. And even if wiping out the dwarves was strategic, why leave Eitri alive only to cut of his hands? If it was really about Eitri's skill he would've just killed him. Thanos wanted him and Nebula to suffer

[@SinHurr]

@@matityaloran9157 I reckon Thanos's character traits changed a bit on paper from the inception of the MCU to Infinity War.

[@matityaloran9157]

@@SinHurr That’s definitely true. In the first Avengers movie, he likes the idea of courting death which suggests that the writers were planning to keep his motivation from the comics

[@robertt3715]

One thing I always thought was interesting about Thanos's sacrifice of Gamora, is that the thing he is sacrificing that he loves, is his plan of an ideal future. In his perfect plan, at the end of it all, he would be no more, and Gamora would carry on the torch. By sacrificing her, he was sacrificing his perfect plan. His affection for her didn't have to be love for her sacrifice to represent something he loved, the outcome.

[@Matt42MSG]

Exactly. He loved her the way he might love a possession.

[@robertt3715]

@@Matt42MSG He would have loved the gauntlet in the same way, a means to his ending.

[@Matt42MSG]

@@robertt3715 Yeah, if he had smithed the gauntlet out of raw materials, that's pretty much how he saw Gamora. He had a twisted, sick version of love -- but he still cared about a person other than himself, which was enough to fulfill the requirements of the Soul Stone. In comparison, Red Skull never cared about anyone or anything beyond himself. He didn't necessarily hate others or desire to make them suffer, which is why he didn't fit in so well with the Nazis, but neither did he love them.

[@lunaslove2871]

Well said!

[@AS19Motorsport]

My favourite description of him in Infinity War remains “single dad tries to cure world hunger with his rock collection”

[@air-headedaviator1805]

They’ll never convince me that Thanos was motivated by genuine care. He’s insane. Magical stones that can do anything and his instant thought is kill off half of all life, and not double the resources? Or just cap the growth rate for a while. I still sumize that Thanos doesn’t believe he’s totally right, but that he has to be right. That he’s motivated on justifying himself

[@matityaloran9157]

Agreed. He’s an incorrigible egomaniac

[@hugomendoza5665]

My take has always been that Thanos knew the double resources idea but chose the half the population idea bc he thought it would be more effective. Remember he’s a parent. He wants to teach the universe a lesson. I think he was hoping the universe would thrive bc it would take the annihilation to be a punishment for their hubris and greed for mismanagement of society and resources. I think back to what Ultron said: “You want to save the world, but you don’t want it to change.” I think that supports my position. Giving more resources merely saves the universe-it does not help it change or evolve.

[@DisneyLover258]

Personally the "actually Thanos does care" take that was proven by him getting the soul stone pisses me off. I actually hate that it tried to say he cared when his care was always false, was always in service of his goals and never Gamorra's, was abusive in a "justifiable" way rather than personal hatred or whatever you want to pin to his abuse of Nebula instead of just killing her and finding a more "worthy" child. He should not have gotten the Soul Stone because his heart wasn't in the right place. As Jono said, "his motivations were off, so everything was off."

[@matityaloran9157]

@@DisneyLover258 Agreed

[@heatherhewitt3760]

It was due to the immortals.

[@yourfavoriteSOB]

Respectfully, I see Thanos averting her gaze differently. It wasn't about protecting her from the view of the carnage, it was to keep the slaughter of everyone she has ever known via execution from turning her against him permanently.

[@jju00]

Both things can be true at the same time

[@caseyoung1527]

YES

[@caseyoung1527]

and it became a pattern of teaching her to have the same disregard for life as he does. it can simply be, "dont look there, that's not as important as what I'm showing you."

[@BlackTigr]

It could also be his way of keeping her focused on *his* goal. Don't think about the price, think about *the why.* ~The Balance~

[@afrosamourai400]

she knew he was responsible for these murders and he knew she would eventually try to avenge her race.

[@trinathebookworm8977]

To his parenting, note that both his kids bailed when given the chance.

[@Inzaghi137]

The fact that thanos thought of killing half of the population of universe after getting infinity stones rather than using the power of the stones to double resources of the universe is something... Edit: a lot of people are saying that doubling the resources wasn't a permanent solution which is true but so was killing half of the population cause eventually it would also increase and lead to imbalance. He wasn't solving the problem just hitting the rewind button and letting it play out but the fact that he chose this path and figured people would live a better life at the expense of lives of their loved ones just shows how utterly diabolical his mind was.

[@青山青山-f7b]

Because of eternals.

[@finnmacmanus5723]

He completely mapped the situation on his home planet to the scale of the universe, he was so tunnel visioned on that that he didn’t even think of how it was different and the solution could be different

[@multimediafan6777]

🤣🤣🤣 never thought about it like that, lmao!!!

[@CinemaTherapyShow]

Yeah, that's my thinking as well. But I understand there are whole Reddit threads explaining why he couldn't or wouldn't.

[@robertbouley7697]

Thanos was a simpleton. Powerful, but narrow-minded and addicted to his own farts.

[@olfactoryninja]

My pet theory as to why he was able to get the Soul Stone: the stone asks you to sacrifice what you love the most. He thinks he loves Gamora and that he's sacrificing her. But in reality, his mission was always doomed to fail because what he actually loved most was the mission itself. In that moment, he received the soul stone, and ensured it could never be used to fully accomplish his goal.

[@naomigreen9749]

Nice.

[@universalpower419]

Does that imply that Gamora was vital to the success of the plan? And whithout Her it's destined to fail. I like your theory, though in "Endgame" someone says "A soul for a soul" when talking about the test, so there is that.

[@mathlete855]

15:00 23:43 I never thought I’d empathize so much with two lines. My mother was a workaholic that always put her career above anything else. Her primary reason for the divorce was so she could get grant money as a single mother. She would wake us up at 5 am so she could get to work three hours early and she’d delegated most of the parenting to her grandparents. I knew she had attachment for me and provided a roof over my head, but I never felt loved. My mother hasn’t had the epiphany you described and due to her nature, I doubt she ever will and I’ve accepted that.

[@ItsBAndBees]

I feel that. Mine always provided and played her part, but at home has always acted disinterested. It really gave me a mini crisis growing up thinking “in the eyes of a child, mother is god” and learning that mine is just a regular, not so nice person. Anyone else who has a not very warm mom feel a bit cheated? Mine certainly got to actual abuse several times, but the general lack of interest always really hurt. Even if you don’t want to admit it? I don’t bring it up a lot but I was like damn this sucks, I didn’t ask to be born and she can’t even bother to act like she likes me 🫠

[@finaldusk1821]

@@ItsBAndBees I second that sentiment. The extreme emotional distance was far from the worst my so-called-mother could've done but that itself was its own form of abuse IYAM. I can attribute some of my trust issues and lack of self worth up to early adulthood to the simple fact that she barely cared that I existed, beyond the fact that she was legally obligated to provide for physical needs and just about nothing else.

[@stereonacht2247]

Well, you'll get a nice inheritance once she dies, right? (And you'd probably exchange all of it for a caring mother who actually showed you love in a regular manner.)

[@egg1645]

I'm so damn sorry. Everyone deserves a parent that feels like home :( I hope you find plenty of love from your friends and mentors in life, there are still folks out there who will give you the time you deserve. Hang in there homie, sorry it's been so rough

[@finaldusk1821]

@@egg1645 Thank you. For my part, I've been lucky enough to find support from elsewhere in the family and other people I'd meet later, but your words were nice to hear all the same. I know they would've meant a LOT to my younger self back when I was still trying to rationalise all that was going on (and the lack thereof) at the time.

[@silalus]

The thing that bothers me the most about discussions of Thanos's motivations is that we tend to ignore how population growth works. The human population of Earth today takes only about 50 years to double, and has peaked even faster. (Just after WW2, it doubled from just 1950 to 1987.) The exact speed of growth of the average MCU civilization isn't something we can know, but Thanos's mass-murder would have ultimately been futile-and futile shockingly fast in the case of the one world we know a lot about, Earth. That really is inevitable, unlike Thanos's self-aggrandizing nonsense. Populations grow to consume available resources. There were probably all sorts of ways the Infinity Stones could promote a new equilibrium, but population reduction was never one of them, and never could be. So his so-called "great mission" was always transparently pointless, except to make him feel powerful and righteous. And he had to always know that on some level, unless he was either utterly self-deluded or incapable of basic math and critical thinking.

[@aaronkinney6004]

To be fair, they changed his entire motivation for doing it in the first place, so having things out of place makes sense. He could have very well just sterilized a large majority instead of killing half.

[@afrosamourai400]

i think he was just stupid

[@MezmoinMobz]

well if you are talking about populations of planets is one thing, but consider that galactis is roaming around the universe's population could vary deeply considering you know the dude is a planet possibly a solar system type eater, and could wipe out huge numbers as a snack.

[@felixhenson9926]

YUP. Whenever I hear someone say the Earth is overpopulated it mostly makes them think they are ill-informed and have swallowed a bunch of Malthusian eugenic thought at absolute best or they ARE a eugenicist at worst.

[@thatfly5360]

I would have thought that the points you made would have been the exact premise of discussions rather than what’s ignored. It was certainly the first conclusion I came to

[@stephenantonsson_II]

Something interesting to note about Thanos’ actions on Gamoras home planet: In Guardians 1 during the mugshot scene, there is a description about Gamora stating she is the last of her species, which indicates that Thanos never gave the planet the means to get back on its feet and they promptly went extinct.

[@roguebarbarian9133]

That's a really interesting interpretation, because I always assumed that Thanos was telling the truth when he said that Gamora's people were alive and thriving. I thought that the Novacore had made some kind of bureaucratic mistake listing her as the last member of her species, but it honestly makes so much more sense that Thanos is gaslighting her because he doesn't want her to know his plan failed and everyone ended up dying instead.

[@captainstroon1555]

As an (unlicenced) universe control therapist, I would suggest Thanos to be less direct with his approach. Using magical mcGuffins to do your work? Fine. But don't make yourself a target to those trying to prevent whatever you want to do with this unlimited power. Be a good guy, be a good father, make people love you, not fear you. Then they won't prevent you from getting these stones, they might even help you. It might even be more enjoyable for yourself, seeing your kids grow up and possibly help you too on your quest to find those stones. And when you have all the stones... snap.

[@bakerboy5682]

Then after snapping use the stones to double the amount of resources held in the universe.

[@Glockenspheal]

Avengers Infinity War: The good ending :D

[@ajl278]

Another universe control therapist here> I'll point out he did try to be less direct for quite a while. Though wasn't exactly the "Good guy" trying to instill love. He did try to give power to others though to fulfill their wishes/dreams, like giving the scepter with the mind stone to Loki. And trying to form an alliance with Ronan to help him vanquish his enemies. He also was willing to sacrifice himself to save his home world when he proposed half the population die at random. When others were unwilling to make sacrifices for the greater good, he decided he would sacrifice anything and everything for his "greater good".

[@Nate-bd8fg]

But of course he THINKS he's right. and it would be morally wrong to lie about his ideology, so he wouldn't ever do that.

[@SinHurr]

@@bakerboy5682 Objection to doubling the resources. Humans, and human like aliens, tend to expand to and then beyond carrying capacity. We just suck like that. Doubling the resources would just double the suffering when we eventually hit that cap again. Cutting down the population in one fell swoop at least gives the survivors a chance to look at the aftermath and really think about the situation and how to not go up to that cliff again. Also, just halving or quartering the natural birthrate would have accomplished the same thing on a slightly longer timescale with none of the trauma. Like the Krogan in Mass Effect, if that's familiar. Or hey if we're working with magical mcguffins, just make all reproduction require mutual consent independent of sex. And then half the birthrate, for safety.

[@AFinch63-pi2nl]

Dread it, run from it. Villain Therapy arrives all the same. Now… it is here!

[@CinemaTherapyShow]

This is brilliant.

[@KaraSeries9000]

“It’s…inevitable.” *I’ll see myself out.

[@epicureanbard]

That clip of Rocket saying "Is it weird that I want to do it a little more now?" is so perfect!

[@ribottostudio]

I remember when people debated about Thanos' method. If there was any validation to his way of doing things. People did video essays, actual ethical papers on "was Thanos right?" and I think that really speaks volumes to the caliber of writing we just don't see anymore in Marvel. They didn't need to make him this understandable. In the comics, Thanos did all of what he did to impress a girl. But in the MCU, you understand where he's coming from. He was proven right, so he figures he's the only one who can make that call on how the universe can be fixed. And what's more, is that there IS some credit to what he brings up; there IS a population issue, and that WILL have an affect on the planet at some point in time. But deleting half of humanity isn't going to solve that. I even remember when people debated if Thanos or the Avengers were the protagonist. It garnered a lot of discussion on film terminology. A protagonist DOESN'T mean THE GOOD GUY. In this movie, In Infinity War, Thanos IS the protagonist. It's HIS story. The Avengers are the antagonists because they're the blocks standing in his way.

[@TheBillykurtz]

The end of marvel movies usually ends with "(insert name of hero) will return" at the end of Infinity War it said "Thanos will return" showing that this was his movie and the Protagonist had won.

[@ribottostudio]

@@TheBillykurtz It was such a pin drop silent moment in the theater. Marvel has never really been the same since and I think that thought of "we need to go bigger" in going to the Multiverse was a mistake. They should've focused on individual stories vs connecting everything. It just feels like a mess now.

[@Merlewhitefire]

It doesn't really prove that the writing is good, it proves that Malthusian propaganda is really popular. It takes like five seconds of scrutiny to realize that his solution is bullshit.

[@Colaschnittchen]

But overpopulation isn’t even a problem. Studies show that the population grow and here on earth is slowing down massively. We will most likely hit a peak in population in about 80-100 years and then slowly regress

[@Merlewhitefire]

@@ribottostudio Bullshit. It's very easy to persuade people of something they've been told from the day they were born anyway. You don't need to be convincing, for instance, to make people hate serial killers.

[@tommythomasson1]

One interesting side-note about Thanos is that he drew his conclusion from a very small sample: the events in his home-planet. He never thought about the possibility that people on other worlds could be wiser and find another solution except genocide or that people could learn from their mistakes in the past. In Thanos, I see a deep distrust in the capabilities of men to work together and to develop over time.

[@ergomagesteph]

There is actually an episode in the What If...? series that shows Thanos abandoning his plan in favor of a healthier relationship with his daughters AND making a difference in the universe without genocide. So he could do both, but he chooses not to, and that says a lot as well.

[@Dudeman23rd]

Great episode. "That sounds a lot like genocide..." "No, no, no, see, because it's _random."_

[@EricJW]

I'd love to see the conversation between him and T'Challa that convinced him to change direction.

[@hidden_animator522]

“He adopts her because he sees she has worth in his great mission and therefore has value” reminds me of Kars with Wamuu and Santana from Jojo a little bit tbh. Jono always coming through with the wise words

[@BatAmerica]

Thanos is a classic example of "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." He was clearly traumatized by the death of his people, yet Gamora refused to become like him despite going through the same thing. I do think he is a monster but not a narcissist because of his last moments with Nebula. A narcissist can't admit they are wrong, meanwhile he barely gives her the closure so many abuse victims wish they could get (even though they would rather not be abused at all).

[@EdwardJermaidh143-jx3fp]

He also a narcissist too tho.

[@ShadowyFox_86]

Keep in mind that all diagnosis, even narcissists, have some flexibility. Not every narcissist is incapable of regret. His last scene with Nebula does not undo everything else. It simply complicates it.

[@RedBlueLSBtheTitaniumStorm]

@@ShadowyFox_86 every is narcissistic doesn’t incunable of regret like that jerk evil zemo from mcu. And also btw they don’t have flexibility at all.

[@Bamgeutcutiepie]

i'm so used to toxic parents and dynamics... so the two of you, it's clear as day you two are "normal" balanced people and are great parents/husbands. it is so easy to see. 💗 whenever i get too deep into my fear of "how will i know if my future husband is normal and won't hurt me like my parents did" and fear love, then all i have to do is, look at people - like the two of you - and it's like oh.... yup there it is! that's normal. that's a good guy! i hope that makes sense 😄 i guess i just wanted to say, that i really appreciate you guys and all these therapy lessons you share. it's worth so much and we need more fathers and husbands like you two. i know you're not perfect. but no one is. but there is a huge difference between being toxic, and just having human flaws. your example , just by being you, - i appreciate it 💗 much love, from Denmark, sabina.

[@toddvogel8887]

OK, I think "Galaxy's Worst Dad" is a bit much in a universe were Ego exists.

[@complex2live]

So I know that sounds bad...

[@StopMotionDryptosaurus]

@@complex2live(Blasts his head off!)

[@matityaloran9157]

Thanos cut off Nebula’s limbs and replaced them with prosthetics. Ego murdered his children but made them painless.

[@darkestnights77]

​@@matityaloran9157 He went out of his way to give Peter's mom cancer, leaving her to die a slow painful death.

[@matityaloran9157]

@@darkestnights77 True but that’s him being the Galaxy’s worst husband

[@dennismoon6693]

The discussion at the 12 minute mark reminds me of one of Christopher TItus's bits. He recounts a series of encounters with his father that boil down to "Look what I accomplished", countered by "yeah, but you didn't ". He finally ends up with "I got a big TV show and made more in one year than you did in your entire life", to which his father replied "You never would have made it without me pushing you. And it got canceled, didn't it?" Translation: no accomplishment of the child is his own, and there is always something to criticize.

[@davidharshman7645]

I think, by the nature of the Soul Stones, you can't actually sacrifice the one you love most...because if you really loved them that much, you couldn't actually sacrifice them for the power of the Soul Stone... So, I assume Red Skull's rules for the Soul Stone are actually just a best guess translation using Red Skull's understanding of what love is.

[@clairethecat1]

I know you guys don't usually do shows but it would be so awesome to see a Villian Therapy of Homelander from The Boys!! I think itd be really interesting to see Jono's take on how to help him (if it's even possible lol) Great work from you guys, as always!!!

[@saveriopanaccione996]

You should do a hero psychology on the Wolverine next. From the X-Men movies to Logan. And also maybe Deadpool and Wolverine if you got time

[@CinemaTherapyShow]

We're planning on it!

[@radiusdesignstudio]

@@CinemaTherapyShow You could do another take on Wade Wilson and Narcissism! Or maybe analyzing his relationship and sexual trauma?!?

[@georgiaclarke6501]

I think X-men '97 would be great to analyse from a family and romantic relationships standpoint

[@saveriopanaccione996]

@@georgiaclarke6501 very good point

[@Stinky_rat_man]

Please do an episode of hero therapy for the Bucky Barnes/ the Winter Soldier he's such an amazing and complex character and I want to see Johno's take on him 🙏🙏

[@Allystargirl]

YES GOD PLEASE I SECOND THIS

[@SuperFlik]

Alright, now do it again for comic-accurate Thanos. He's not trying to save the universe, he's trying to impress the physical manifestation of Death

[@bsb8705]

I honestly love the route they chose for Thanos in the MCU. The best thing about some of their best movies (in my opinion) are the villains I call "villains of circumstance." The Winter Soldier, Black Panther, the entire Saga with Thanos; they were all villains of circumstance. Bucky was a villain because of his torture and brainwashing. Killmonger, due to his upbringing and having his father die as he was a child and all the suffering he's seen. Thanos due to his planet dying through overexploitation of the planet's finite resources. In all their eyes, they're all doing the right thing based on their circumstances. For these movies, they were far more complex because on some level, you can sympathize with them, as twisted and wrong their visions may be, we understand them. Now, with Deadpool in the MCU, I hope they find someway to showcase Lady Death. That would be epic.

[@CinemaTherapyShow]

We do stupid things for lust/love.

[@JustinHall-z8v]

@@CinemaTherapyShow for example, I watched two seasons of Love is Blind lmao

[@reniefuwa]

The channel is *cinema* therapy, not comic therapy

[@Matt42MSG]

@@reniefuwa And the problem with comic Thanos is simply that he's a jerk on a cosmic scale, and acting as though he has a problem that we can help him with is wrong-headed. He chose to be evil, and I don't think it's because he's fundamentally unaware of the damage he does. He simply doesn't care, and that's not a condition to be cured. Sometimes simply eliminating the evil actually is the only correct response. Just because we too often leap to destroying doesn't make it incorrect all the time.

[@WondaGal1000]

Jonathan and Alan, thank you so much for highlighting the absolute damage that toxic parenting can do to a child. In some cultures (including the one I come from) harsh parenting where parents are overly critical, unaccepting, and making a child feel like they aren't good enough no matter how high they soar professionally or academically is normalized. It's hard for the kids who grow up in this kind of environment. I really appreciate you highlighting this important topic that's not often talked about.

[@kellybellypumpkinjelly]

Wonderfully said 👏

[@KaraSeries9000]

Stephen He and emotional damage have entered the chat.

[@iaxacs3801]

The thing that really gets me is how realistic Thanos relationship with his daughters is. I have seen this happen when I worked at a local mom and pop shop. The Pop put his entire being into his shop to the point even holidays as a family they were at that shop. I met 2 of his kids: 1 was very much like Nebula and would do anything to please him as a manager in the shop, the other much like Gamora, went on from the shop to other things and came back to work at it only for conflict to occur and he pushed her away from his life. And he acted like Thanos even to his employees, being a kind and awesome person who in return needed you to follow his zealot like commitment to the shop. And if you were seen as a threat to that he would threaten anyone including an employee who worked a walked a little too fast in a overcrowded store who then later saw the heavy toll weighing on their coworkers and brought it up only to receive a threat to not make a union. The scariest thing about Thanos is he is an every day normal man at his core

[@gustavoc305]

The way you describe Thanos as a parent makes me think of Yakone from The Legend of Korra. They're similar in how they both use their children for their own mission

[@finnmacmanus5723]

Seeing that little clip inserted in there makes me really badly want a Shameless episode now, there’s an unbelievable amount to unpack there for a family therapist

[@dangerousflyer4485]

It'd have to be like a mini series lmao

[@magnusprime962]

The funny thing about MCU Thanos is that he's basically comic Thanos if you made the subtext text. MCU Thanos is just as much in love with death, it's just as a concept this time rather than an actual person. Notice how in the opening of Infinity War he revels in fighting Hulk, or how he immediately doubles down in Endgame when he learns his original plan didn't work. If Thanos really cared about helping people he would've tried finding a different solution. But he doesn't. He lies to himself so that he can believe he's a hero, when he's truly a monster. Also, Thanos doesn't love his 'daughters'. True love is putting what's best for others before what's best for yourself. Thanos spectacularly fails at this. He literally sacrificed one of them solely to further his own goals. He also followed that up by saying he didn't kill the other because "it would've been a waste of parts". MCU Thanos is one of the worst fictional fathers ever.

[@rmsgrey]

Doesn't that definition of love imply that you can only ever love one person because if you love a second person, sooner or later you'll pick one of them over the other?

[@antonakesson]

"True love is putting what's best for others before what's best for yourself" That sounds more like the definition for selflessness rather then love.

[@knightofarkronia9968]

@@antonakessonIsn’t selflessness a kind of love?

[@tell-me-a-story-]

@@rmsgrey No, you just put both of the higher than yourself.

[@tell-me-a-story-]

@@antonakesson Real love is selflessness towards someone. Not fuzzy feelings.

[@pygmalion0451]

8:11 Yeah... Thanos doesn't double-check. Fun fact: During the lineup scene in "Guardians of the Galaxy," they show their files in the background, and Gamora's says she's the last of her people.

[@P.A.theDarkstar]

Genocides rarely leave a culture able to repopulate

[@matityaloran9157]

Thanos is the worst

[@hugomendoza5665]

I honestly think that’s just s continuity error. She would have corrected Thanos if that were true but she begrudgingly accepts what he says about her planet.

[@pygmalion0451]

@@hugomendoza5665 I think this is the most likely answer, too, but I also like to think that she was too busy with Thanos's extreme upbringing to notice (kinda like how Anakin didn't keep up with his mom between episodes 1 and 2)

[@rociohernandez3077]

​@@hugomendoza5665that's probably an issue of the different directors and writers for each film. You'll also notice many characters who appear in the Avengers are more flanderized from their own films because the Russo brothers don't know them that well so they had to do what they could with this enourmus cast.

[@mikaelm5367]

I really like the idea that what Thanos *really* wants is vindication. Winning, losing, living, dying, it actually being a solution to the problem, none of it matters compared to the whole world seeing that he was right.

[@thestoryfactory8429]

In the comics, he always kept 1 child to adopt from every civilization he destroyed. Cull Obsidian, etc. are also his "children." He's also the biological brother of the character Harry Styles is playing, and doesn't look like any of his people. He has a very painful condition / deformity, and is always in pain. He hallucinates (most likely) the image of Death, as a woman he forever tries to impress, but who forever ignores him (because she's a hallucination.) Also, can we please address the fact that you cannot sacrifice something you don't possess? Thanos didn't own Gamora. He couldn't sacrifice her.

[@Dudeman23rd]

He didn't own her, but he did own his desire to have a genuine relationship with her. Killing her wasn't about giving up a physical person, it was about giving up the chance to ever see her sit on his throne, like he wanted. That's what he loved ultimately, not her, but the potential of her.

[@ItsBAndBees]

Yep. He loved the imago, the role she played to fulfill his plans.

[@jordanledoux197]

Wasn't he a child of an eternal and the things the eternals were fighting in the comics?

[@YoelSchwarz]

​@@jordanledoux197he was an eternal that was born with a deviant gene

[@jlklai98]

I would love love love to see you do a breakdown of Silco and Jinx's relationship! I found there to be many similarities between Gamora and Thanos, and Jinx and Silco. From the way Silco adopts Jinx because he sees himself in her, to the way he uses her for his own grandiose plans and twists her mental/psychological development for his own means... but also how in the end, he was willing to throw away all that because he loves her so much in a truly inconditional way.

[@MauricioRPP1]

@14:23 i always thought this scene would be way stronger if Thanos turned the knife to flowers, instead of bubbles. Like a goodbye gift.

[@rubenduenas5881]

That would be even more messed up considering what happens to Gamora later.

[@eileensnow6153]

Ugh that’s so perfect. What an insult

[@Lucifronz]

I am not a parent, but the whole "all-in" thing is exactly how I've come to find parenting. Reinforced partly because I got my first puppy a while back (a little over a year and a half now) since becoming an adult and being in a healthy place and I was *committed* to teaching him right. Giving him all the attention he needed, making sure I was praising/scolding him properly, doing my research, *everything.* And he's turned out great. He doesn't have virtually any of the issues my dogs growing up had when I let my parents do all of the raising (and considering the damage they did to me...). When you're taking responsibility for another life and how they grow up, you have to be in it 100%. 110%. 200% if you can. Every day. It's not easy, it's exhausting, and it's definitely not for everybody, but if you really do care, it's _so_ worth it. And it's why I cannot be a parent. I know I won't be able to commit that much of myself to a child. It's hard enough doing it for a dog after a certain point, a human child requires much more time to grow up and can be much more harshly affected by your actions. One day of lost patience could scar them for life. You could say or do something that could throw their entire life's trajectory into a spiral and if you're like my parents, you'll never acknowledge or own up to it and it will only hurt your kids more. The world's authorities want more children in the world to maintain population, but if I had it my way, very few people would ever be allowed to raise kids. So many of them are just plain awful at it.

[@emilymartin5418]

With ya right up until the last paragraph. Governments have as many problems with overpopulation as underpopulation, the total number of humans is increasing and does not need help to be maintained, and poor parenting is a problem of education not inherent moral failing.

[@BlueTressym]

@@emilymartin5418 Poor parenting can absolutely include moral failures. Not even bad parent is just ignorant. My father knew damn well that the way he treated me was hurting me but he still did it, right up until I cut all contact with him. Even that didn't give him any sort of epiphany, as my brother was still in contact for a while longer and my dad treated him like crap too. No amount of education will make my father a better parent. He never learned and never will because he refuses - and always has refused - to accept that he can ever be wrong.

[@EfraimNkengurutse]

15:00 🎵what is love? baby dont hurt me🎵

[@FiresCollide]

I'm with Alan on this one. Thanos actually does love Gamora - love isn't always selfless. Perfect, healthy love is. But love is rarely perfect, or perfectly healthy. We wouldn't need therapists if it were. I just think his duty to the mission trumps his love for his adopted daughter.

[@tell-me-a-story-]

I think excluding selflessness destroys the definition of love. Love isn’t a feeling, that’s affection.

[@FiresCollide]

@@tell-me-a-story- To each, their own!

[@afrosamourai400]

you perfectly said it!! love is not necessarily selfless, or harmonious or tactful, love is a feeling and it's certain that thanos had this feeling for gamora.

[@tell-me-a-story-]

@@afrosamourai400 I think love IS necessarily selfless. I don’t think love is a feeling at all, nor does it really have anything to do with your feelings. I think people mix up affection and love. I think selflessness is a necessary ingredient to love. That is, you CAN have selflessness without love, but you CANT have live without selflessness. It’s just something entirely different, then. Basically, “A selfish kind of love” doesn’t exist. If you have all the other ingredients, but not selflessness, it’s attachment rather than love.

[@afrosamourai400]

@@tell-me-a-story- love is necessarily selflish because the first thing love seeks is to be reciprocated, love is a selfish and irational feeling

[@KandusHullinger]

This has been my comfort channel for at least a year. Thank you guys for what you do! I don't know if you look at movie recommendations but it would be so cool if you guys reviewed The Artist. It's a black and white old-fashioned style movie. It might make you cry. It makes me cry haha.

[@CinemaTherapyShow]

I LOVE that movie! We will consider. - Jonathan

[@KandusHullinger]

@@CinemaTherapyShow Yayyyy!

[@mckenzimarlow4843]

I would love to see villain therapy on Dr. Doofenshmirtz. There are Phineas and Ferb movies!

[@matityaloran9157]

Definitely

[@LegorocketsAnimation]

Yesss!!! Thisss!!!! Doof and Perry and Vanessa have a lot of great dynamics.

[@iantaakalla8180]

Furthermore, (spoilers) Across the Second Dimensions clarifies that for some reason, him losing his choo-choo train made alternate Doofenshmirtz actually evil as opposed to scientifically indulgent. I would reckon that is because his choo-choo train is probably one of the only constants in his life, but I would like to see their take on that backstory.

[@andrewkessinger5966]

One of the best lines in Infinity War was Red Skull: "They're not for him" followed by that whole scene and the music.

[@charisleighmusic]

Infinity War devastated me. The fact that the reason the sacrifice works is because he did love her in a messed up way. It’s a fabulous movie with a screwed up storyline. Great video as always.

[@drakmendoa]

7:50 Small detail I like: Gamora says she hates the Throne, so Thanos sits on the stairs. Which shows he really care for Gamoras opinion on him. But he still can't see past his ego and still can't acknowledge that he was wrong.

[@luisafreitas1366]

If he cared for her opinion he would've destroyed the throne years ago as he has known he hates it for a long time.. or, better than that, he wouldn't have ordered her mother to be murdered, wouldn't have kidnapped her, wouldn't torture her sister in front of her, wouldn't train her to be a killer, and small detail, wouldn't kill her.

[@drakmendoa]

@@luisafreitas1366 As they said: His love for her is pretty twisted. On top of his fixated mindset of his mission to proof that he was right. Because of that he cares for her opinion as much as he can, but he would never abandon his fixed mind about her being his successor.

[@lisawang3566]

4:57 the spectrum of motives of becoming parents, many motives NOT kids’ nurturing and wellbeing. I got goosebumps. So true, so sad

[@sadanyagci]

Great family perspective on Thanos. I was hoping more for the perspective of social benefit and consent. Thanos killed to alleviate suffering. He didn't explore any other options. No one voted. No one consented. No alternatives were floated. He didn't care what anyone else thought of the problem. He didn't run 1000 experiments across 1000 worlds, to determine what method would be the most effective. He had an idea and made a unilateral decision to carry that idea out upon populations. That's a problem a lot of people in government have. That's a problem a lot of CEOs have. Our entire society suffers from that problem. Communities are people, people matter, and informed consent is important.

[@bethanygrove9505]

I found Cinema Therapy a few months ago and now I have weekly crying sessions with Alan. You guys are so entertaining fun and alot of what you talk about is so helpful in real life situations. I hope this channel goes on for a long time. ❤

[@CinemaTherapyShow]

You're so kind. Thanks for watching! :)

[@laurenkillebrew6576]

My mom did a lot of things wrong in raising me and my siblings, but one thing she did right was making sure our sibling bond was reinforced so that we would always support each other. Because of that, I cannot understand parents that pit their kids against each other.

[@raeofsunshine2022]

Video idea for @CinemaTherapyShow, vould you do a Father's Day Episode ranking the dads of the MCU - Odin, Thanos, Ego, Howard Stark, Clint Barton, Natasha Romanoff's adopted/fake dad, Ant Man, and Ying Li. Vice versa you could also do a Mother's Day episode for the MCU mom's. I would love to see your insight on family dynamics and how you would rank them from best to worst or vice versa.

[@lynnica5219]

That sounds really awesome! Please make both of these!

[@ascenciopictures]

I remember reading a post that said, "Boys cried when Iron Man died. Men cried when Thanos died." I was like "ok, edgelord" 😂😂

[@JohnnyElRed]

I know this goes outside of cinema and TV, but man, now I really want you to take a look at God of War, and the relationship between Kratos and Atreus. Also, to how it compares to stuff like Thor's dynamic with his daughter Thrud, and his father Odin.

[@ZoeAprahamian]

I love how open and welcoming this channel is. As someone who wants to be a family/relationship therapist when they’re older, it’s helped so much ❤

[@lukasschmitz9030]

I love the ending of Infinity War especially when it comes to the music. As the sun sets on Thanos in his garden and on the thing he has just done the music is in minor but as he settles down and starts to smile, it shifts to major with a sudden Picardy third. It's brilliant composition showing is through music that for Thanos this is the happy outcome and he has achieved his goal and is now at peace with himself.

[@redlox2]

I will say considering he can “pretty much” do anything (at least in his universe) infinity war thanos was surprisingly humble all things considered. Once he did his “job” he used the stones to destroy themselves to prevent further temptations (likely knowing it would lead to his death since it weakened him a great deal in endgame) Endgame Thanos variant is a different story though. That was guy was full on monster imo.

[@coconutcore]

This episode touched a bit on the question of what love is, and I have some things to say about that. See, I’ve heard it best described as such: Baby don’t hurt me. Don’t hurt me. No more. And I think that says it all.

[@zuziabomba.]

I love you guys. ❤ Thanks for being here with us, sharing your thoughts and feelings. Whenever I can, I recommend you to my friends! I’m so grateful to have stumbled upon your channel (early on!)

[@CinemaTherapyShow]

You're so kind! Thanks for watching and sharing!

[@sanftmutig]

04:49 why 😮 becoming a parent ❤ 11:22 parenting nor a mini me 15:54 all-in parent 18:15 anxious attachment & therapy motivation for the parent - find a framework which align that

[@s.nnerrrr8264]

Having you guys say that Thanos’ parenting is wrong, and explaining why had me bawling. My dad had a very Thanos “parenting” style. And yes, he does think Thanos was right.

[@marikarembetissa4870]

I always thought that Thanos' response to the vision of little Gamora about losing everything to get the stones didn't mean that Gamora was everything for him, but that Gamora was meant to be his successor and since she was killed no one will inherit all his "empire". To me, he wanted to be seen as a saviour and, in his head, he is the hero not the villain.

[@johnhuffman9533]

1:00 Don't think I didn't notice the Serenity (2005) reference. "Don't say it!!" "It only works on her, Jayne." "Well, now I know that."

[@prefon13]

I was combing the comments, looking for a fellow Browncoat. Knew I wouldn't be the only one. 😅

[@christerjonsall5415]

Quite the coincidence as well, that the movie referenced (Serenity) also starred a zealous monster of a villain, who did unspeakable things fully knowing how horrible they were 'cause it was the *right* thing to do and, never expected to live in the wonderful world they helped create.

[@chrissyjoy08]

Omg 🤦🏻‍♀️ I totally recognized the quote as a quote from a show I knew but simply could not place it and it was gonna drive me nuts! a) Thank you so much, and b) I can't believe I couldn't recall that!

[@marieroberts5664]

I'd like to touch on Nebula. She is adopted, (culled from the rest of her doomed people and kidnapped) but unlike Gamora, not adopted for herself. Not even for her overall extreme talents, like Squidward or the other three of his order... But as a companion for the beloved favorite...puts me in mind of many a slave master, setting up one of the "children of the place" as a dedicated companion/squire/whipping boy/servant/slave...and as often, that child would be the half sibling of the Master. Nebula would never have the love of the rightwise born child, Gamora, but she was a gift to make the true child happy. And in Gamora's case, to have a sparing partner her own size. From the beginning, Nebula knew she lived on sufferance. But like Jono said, she might get a few crumbs of affection from somebody if she tried really really hard, or at least if she groveled enough she might have a day of life where she wasn't tortured and might get to live. Gamora knew she was loved, even if she hated Thanos, and somehow she loved him enough back that killing him was not easy, not a given. Same with Nebula. She was rocked when Thor killed Thanos. He was evil and tortured her, but he was still her father. She has to kneel; the true daughter of the house, heir to the throne, does not, and can get away with flouting her father (eye rolling, letting him know she hates him, throwing away the soup, and running off to sell the Reality? Stone to fund her escape).

[@Chocolatenigma]

In the episode of Marvel What If: T’Challa became Star Lord; it is revealed that T’Challa convinced Thanos to not follow through with his mission to destroy half the universe through discussion. Thanos also appears to have a healthy relationship with Nebula in this timeline

[@rmg480]

I love that his motívation in IW could be taken as an absolute corruption of "with great power comes great responsibility", he thinks what he does HAS to be done as the only way to keep the universe alive and thriving, and he truly believes himself to be the only one with the power and the will to do it, no matter the cost, and just like any hero he will make personal sacrifices for his perceived greater good. He was such a great foil for the heroes, and I LOVE how that changes with the Thanos from EG, whom literally confirms it hadn't been personal at all until that point.

[@lumbahjacki4133]

PLEASE do one of these for Wanda!! I’ve been saying for so long Marcel didn’t need to make her a villain she just needed SOOO much therapy!

[@lumbahjacki4133]

If you do, Jono, please talk about how her power in Wandavision could be either seen as Maladaptive Daydreaming or a form of psychosis! I think it’s more maladaptive daydreaming becoming reality than anything else but I would love to hear your opinion!

[@eternyti]

I think the Soul Stone considers Thanos' sacrifice "legitimate" and what he feels for Gamora as "love" not because it is objectively true, but because **Thanos** believes it is. He feels the pain of losing something he cherishes, even if for entirely the wrong reasons and motivations, but he feels it genuinely all the same and I think that's enough. It doesn't need to be pure and selfless it just needs to be genuine and real to *him.* Good or bad, right or wrong, I think the Stone just requires it to feel like a great sacrifice in order to acquire it.

[@RobbieManic]

Love is selfless. Love is doing the right thing for someone no matter how it impacts you. If Thanos truly loved Gamora he would have refused to sacrifice her on the spot. It wouldn't have been a debate, he'd have instantly said no. Like the theory that Odin refused to throw Hela to retrieve the soul stone and ended his quest there because he knew he could never do it to anyone he loved. I don't have kids, but if I do have more than one and face a Sophie's Choice, I'd say no. I'd fight tooth and nail, until eternity to find another way, even if it meant the second worst thing. If it meant sacrificing myself, I would - even though that has a caviat of them now not having one of their parents. You'd always find another way.

[@afrosamourai400]

the fact he sacrified her doesn't mean he didn't love her, love is a feeling and he loved her

[@RobbieManic]

@@afrosamourai400 I respect your opinion. I'd argue though with what Jono says, it's more of an attachment. He's grown fond of her. There are a lot of people who think they love someone, because of how that someone makes them feel, but you can argue it's not love, it's either obsession, lust, compulsion, fixation, etc. But the great thing about this stage of the MCU is that the content is so layered, some of these questions don't have a correct answer and it's more interpretive.

[@britbro2239]

​@@RobbieManicI understand what you're saying And while I agree with you to a certain extent I do believe humans selfish nature can get in the way of them trying to love someone. I also like to think personally that if I was trying to get the soul stone to keep it away from they knows I would throw my own parent or one of my siblings that I love dearly off that cliff to save humanity it would hurt dearly and I would be devastated and never move on but and that kind of situation I could see myself doing something like that with that there then be selfish. The point I'm trying to make with that is I don't think Love is black and white when it comes to being selfless or not. Don't get me wrong I kind of Don't believe Thanos loves gamora either

[@ChrisWavey14]

With this new uprise to X-Men, especially after the new Deadpool and Wolverine movie. You guys should do Hero/Villain Therapy on multiple characters apart of the X-Men universe. For example, "Logan" Wolverine, "Charles Xavier" Professor X, "Erik Magnus Lensher" Magneto and so many more characters. The X-Men universe is so full of rich and well written characters that I and probably a lot of others would love to see you dissect.

[@TheZeroNeonix]

This reminds me of the song "A Boy Named Sue." In the song, the protagonist was named "Sue" by his now absent father. The boy grew to hate his father, but when they finally meet later, the father says, "Son, this world is rough And if a man's gonna make it, he's gotta be tough I knew I wouldn't be there to help you along So I give you that name, and I said goodbye And I knew you'd have to get tough or die It's that name that helped to make you strong"

[@Dudeman23rd]

Can't forget the final line though. "And if I have a son, I think I'll name him...BILL OR GEORGE OR TED, ANY OTHER DAMN THING BUT SUE!"

[@lightdarksoul2097]

Yeah there is a difference in understanding someone and agreeing. In the song he understood his father but still didn't agree

[@PinsPages]

I love that song 😂

[@SerDerpish]

As my father is a diagnosed narcissistic PD, I have gotten quite good at finding them out in the wild, and Hollywood has become proficient at accurately depicting them. That said, I think Thanos is the most realistic and believable DCM-5 criteria narcissist ever depicted in any medium thus far. The fact that they made him this accurately, down to the sentiment of “I hate everything I learned from you” from his victim (a thought I have had personally many times) is actually kinda scary 😰

[@itsLemontree]

To be fair he had a messed up childhood. His mom tried to kill him at birth, he ended up later killing her with the same knife. His comic book self was so messed up, but a well done character. Best villain ever

[@matityaloran9157]

I don’t think that happened to MCU Thanos

[@VeryNerdyPerson]

​@@matityaloran9157 They didn't mention it in the MCU, but considering that we don't get much of MCU Thanos's backstory, it's entirely plausible that this could have been part of it.

[@matityaloran9157]

@@VeryNerdyPerson It’s possible that it happened but there are enough major differences between MCU Thanos and the source material that I’d hesitate to bring up his comic book backstory while talking about him

[@ninjanibba4259]

@@VeryNerdyPersonplausible isn’t truth

[@Ashguy733]

I personally hated Thanos Rising because Jason Aaron turned Thanos into a space Jeffery Dahmer, but I do like his pre 2012 origins where he was rejected because he was a Deviant.

[@Halley2364]

kinda hilarious how in one of the "what if" episodes, it was a concept if black panther ended up being starlord in another universe. and in that universe, thanos meets starlord (who we know as black panther) and convinces thanos that his plan is a bad idea. they became buddies and thanos turned out a better father. LOL T'Challa was the only person who could make thanos see that his dream was unreasonable. shows how great of a character he is.

[@dmnapier7]

That send off was dope at the end. Btw universe control therapist here, and everything Thanos did was right for the universe. I'm four years from the future where Thanos completed his mission. My family has knot known hunger and the edumacation is free. My kids was born the same year. Now, 4 years later, they are 17 years old. They lived a healthy life, thanks to Thanos giving us crispy air. I keep wanting to tell my wife the good news, but she hasn't came back since that day either. I think she's having trouble finding the milk. That's all, y'all doing a great job. Love your videos, only things that stop me from thinking bout my wife when I can't eat any cereal. Kay, peace

[@axelfoley133]

I think this is the first time I've seen someone else view Thanos as a religious zealot/extremist. When I watched it, I basically thought "Oh, he's basically ISIS.' He acts like he's on a mission from god, and people are either unwilling or unable to see the good that he believes he's doing, or don't have the stomach to admit it. So you can't argue with him over his beliefs, because he thinks you either agree, or you incapable of understanding what he's doing. People expressed disappointment about Thanos in Endgame, but I thought his progression made sense. He truly acts like a zealot. When exposed to proof that his plan failed - that the universe is indisputably not grateful for his actions - he doesn't reconsider his goals. He never for a moment thinks he might have been wrong. He literally doubles down. He's no longer content to destroy half of life, he'll destroy everything. It just radicalizes him further.

[@Sokairu711]

People who side with Thanos or try to argue he was right honestly blow my mind. He was literally holding nearly INFINITE power in his hands. He could have made a universe with infinitely renewable resources, and planets that grow with the population if he wanted to. He quite literally chose violence. Yes, he had the intention to help but he was so far off the mark you truly cannot argue he was right.

[@andrewgoehring9108]

Arguing right and wrong is incredibly hard, but that's good and evil. This is an argument on whether it would have WORKED. Was he right in that it was a solution. Who could say.

[@Sokairu711]

@@andrewgoehring9108 his solution in a vacuum, while ignoring morality, is still inevitable to fail. Eventually the populations will grow back to their original size and the problem returns. It's a temporary Band-Aid solution. And not a very smart one.

[@andrewgoehring9108]

@@Sokairu711 That seems to be the most likely case....unless he planned on continuing the practice in the future. Or maybe their was some other measure that wasn't shown.

[@dustinwashburn1283]

@@andrewgoehring9108 Since he decided to destroy the stones, he clearly did not think that far ahead.

[@mae1813]

Every child needs Thier parents, and they need them to be loving but firm. The world will provide plenty of people to beat the will, hopes, and dreams out of them. Parents should be Thier support and rock to grow up on. I know I would have done better had my father not died and my mother didn't proceed in creating an enmeshment family system with that dash of convert narcissism. Took around 40 years to seek therapy to learn why I was so broken. The roots all go back to poor parenting. No boundaries, no sense of self, always feeling worthless, never being enough, and being absolutely miserable. I always wonder what if, but it's pointless. I'm healing now and moving forward albeit slowly but forward.

[@Mech299]

A lot of people have said this, and I don't care, I'm going to say it again. The way that the movie could've been so much better is to acknowledge that Thanos is fundamentally in the wrong, and that Gamora was right, he COULDN'T love anything enough for the sacrifice to be worthy of the Soul Stone. He throws Gamora... and he doesn't get the stone. It's baby's first moral dilemma and Thanos passes it, which hurts the story. Have him fail, have him realize that the avengers are trying to stop him, and then tail them, watch them sacrifice for it and take their sacrifice. Take the soul stone after they've won it fair and square. Let the heroes do the work for him and then run off with his vindication. This also lets Gamora be revived later without the forced emotional drama of Gamora not remembering the romantic tension that she and Starlord built up, and it adds heightened pain and importance to Widow's sacrifice, because hers is the only one that stuck, instead of her just dying in the second movie. It also would've let you allude to the events of the second movie because "Why are they on the planet?". It hurts Widow's rather rushed emotional arc in Endgame, but... don't rush an emotional arc. Let her be a character that didn't get fleshed out, then flesh her out in her movie that came out after. It's still a stupid course to take, giving her her own movie after her character is dead, but there are ways to use that, like building it up into its own 3-part series, showing things that she did before her death, between the avengers movies. And culminate it with a hint that her soul is still very much still alive inside the soul stone and have it become this big spiritual heist plot to get her soul OUT of the soul stone. That also organically allows you to introduce A LOT of characters into the world, such as mutants, the fantastic four, etc. Hell, you could even do some minor retconning and say that the soul stone connects DIRECTLY to the Void, from Loki. Anyone in the soul stone? Stored in there, and that gives you a ticking clock to get to Widow before her soul is eaten while we flash to her surviving in the Void.

[@raeyoruichibts6084]

I remember watching a show and the son had just come out to his parents and his mother was worried about his future, how society would treat him, etc. so the father said something along the lines that if the world is hurting him and beating him down, let us be his solace. And that is something I truly love. If I ever have kids, that is what I want to be, my children's safe place.

[@lunekyh]

me, jumping out of my chair: tell 'em jono!! tell them the soul stone sacrifice shouldn't have worked because it wasn't love!!! thank you both as usual 🍿 and also, ✅ thanos video ✅ nebula video ❓ gamora video...mayhaps one day

[@Matt42MSG]

It was a twisted, evil love. Still love. Thanos didn't love Gamora so much as what he believed Gamora could be molded into being... but throwing her from the cliff still destroyed that dream.

[@gunnarschlichting9886]

@@Matt42MSG That's my take as well. He loved what Gamora represented and the idea of Gamora as a kind of legacy, but not her as a person.

[@lunekyh]

@@Matt42MSG i guess the "love he lost" was the dream that was killed when she died then? that makes sense

[@SageVallant]

My take on the throne comment is that Thanos knows that his mission is ultimately unachievable. Someone always has to be on that throne doing the work. And the fact that he would trust her with that mission, the thing that he holds most sacred, suggests some degree of "How do you define love?" going on there.

[@JustDough]

You guys should check out ‘Where the Wild Things Are’ 2009! I think it’s a very overlooked movie that has a lot of great things for you guys to talk about! Keep up the great work, can’t wait to see how you guys pick Thanos apart ❤

[@emmagaroutte9211]

As should they check out the “Lost Ollie” Netflix series (or at least, parts of it). Its tone, use of practical effects, and mature take on childhood are very similar to Where The Wild Things Are. It also takes elements from Toy Story, such as the bond between Andy and Woody, but actually allows the main character to express the meaningful connection he has with his child. ❤️

[@ItsBAndBees]

Omg is forgotten about the movie! But totally agree

[@Ramschat]

Unpopular opinion: love is just a feeling, it can be wrong, it can be toxic. But most people have such a strong association between 'love' and 'good' that they redefine love to mean 'a healthy relationship'. Thanos probably felt real love, but he was so twisted that it was never a priority compared to 'his mission'

[@delrodriguez9422]

Here in this first 10 min and couldn't be more excited and happy??? To see one of the cooler marvel villans with actual relationships

[@wrestlingwithlife7297]

Was in the hospital so a bit late to this but you all know the drill: Attempt #(7) of asking for Spirit : Stallion of the Cimarron!! Was my absolute childhood movie growing up and the filmmaking is so beautiful with amazing scores and concepts of loss and staying true to once nature even in the face of adversity!

[@theaceguitarist]

I am replying to this comment because I want it to be seen. Because this is important.

[@Jackal_El_Lobo34]

15:51 - 22:40 I disagree on the notion that Thanos isn’t selfish or narcissistic. As interesting and complex as he is, I’m pretty sure Thanos is a Malignant Narcissist. Yes he can feel existential emotions but every action he made is evidently ego driven and abusive. It’s just not in a conventional way we’re used to which is what makes him unique as a villain. However, the selfishness of this character is really exposed in Endgame. When his alternate dimension variant found out that the Avengers were trying to undue what main universe Thanos did, he made it clear that he was now gonna make it personal by killing everyone and creating a new life form that would be more obedient which I think is very telling of how he really thought. By that logic, it feels like he just wanted something to stroke his ego on an extremist idea that clearly doesn’t work.

[@EdwardJermaidh143-jx3fp]

Wromg Thanos is selfish and also narcissistic.

[@Jackal_El_Lobo34]

@@EdwardJermaidh143-jx3fp Yeah that’s what I’m saying.

[@roytromb_strength]

Thanks for making me cry guys.... again!

[@jacobburrell7640]

Could we please get a magneto “villian” therapy episode

[@matityaloran9157]

McKellen’s Magneto is a villain without any need for quotation marks. Fassbender’s Magneto depends on the movie

[@muskankumar9411]

This might be a bit too heavy but i’ve been following this channel for a while now and you have dealt with heavy stuff before so it is my SINCEREST of requests that you guys do an episode on The Pianist. I absolutely love that movie and I cannot bring myself to rewatch it. There is a lot in terms of trauma and hope and the will to live and weight of your actions when it is literally the end of the world. Love you guys!!

[@Bad_Wolf_Media]

Can we get a breakdown on Thanos's obsession with bubbles? Because that's what he does to Peter's gun, too, in the earlier scene.

[@dianevierra781]

5:07 Jono made an interesting point I hadn't considered, parents wanting to have a child because it brings THEM fulfillment. I hadn't considered that as a bad thing necessarily in the past, but the key word really is "them." It's about the parents, not the kids. And personally, it brings up the question "if you're kids are what makes you fulfilled--if they are your world, for lack of a better term--then what happens when the kids aren't there anymore, for whatever reason? who are you without them?''

[@afrosamourai400]

people have kids for all kind of stupid reasons

[@Armorion]

14:00 Question, do you think it is a perspective issue? That the stones only accept a sacrifice that the seeker SEES as something they value? To Thanos' perspective it could he absolutely "Love" even if everyone else disagrees

[@Matt42MSG]

He loved Gamora like a possession, as a component of the ideal future he wanted to create, and he sacrificed his imagined legacy to gain the Stone. He didn't love her as an individual, only as a tool. But that was enough.

[@Armorion]

@@Matt42MSG the main point of my question was if the stone only cares if the sacrifice is something the Seeker loves, regardless of what they perceive as love. As long as the seeker suffers in the process to obtain this power.

[@Matt42MSG]

@@Armorion I don't think anyone would blink at Thanos was described as loving an object, say a work of art that he'd created over decades. That's how he viewed his daughter.

[@Moraenil]

Everything, ever, is a perspective issue. Just ask Obi-Wan Kenobi...or any lawyer.