Lumineth Realm Lords 2022 Battletome Review - Warhammer Weekly 10122022

Join us for another week of news, rumors and all things warhammering. This week, we are breaking the 4th and somehow new Lumineth Realm Lords battletome. Let's see what Teclis's finest have in store for us this time around.
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12:20 Pick of the Week
16:30 Hobby Time
26:00 LRL Overview
33:00 Allegiance Abilities
1:14:45 GS&BT
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[@justme3507]

Elves now having better Hammerers then Dwarfs. That goes in the great book of grudges for sure.

[@eldenwarden9673]

As a elf player I agree, I think they shouldn't have hammers in the first place but hey.

[@VinceVenturella]

Elves love hammers, we all know that. :)

[@justme3507]

@@eldenwarden9673 with the design choices they made for the LrL i would they it fits the earth "temple" asthetic and makes sense. But yes hammers should remain in the hands of the Dwarfs and Sigmar priests.

[@woolf552]

I kinda like the idea of elves swinging hammers with perfect precision as contrast to the "normal" use of a warhammer only relying on brute force.. its a bit like Gun Kata

[@eldenwarden9673]

@@woolf552 nah, but GW has some models for you.

[@ThePingouin2ter]

Thank you for the review! You nailed it with your comment of "this is not quite the high elves of auld until they bring back the Tyrion side". I didnt realise but it is what I am looking for, hopefully for aos 4.0 ! In the meantime you have convinced me that Ironjaws is actually what I crave !

[@VinceVenturella]

It's always a good time for Ironjawz.

[@philipbowles5397]

Oh, I'm sure Lumineth won't need to wait for AoS 4.0. They seem to get a book a year (no, Teclis doesn't count as a Lumineth book since its Lumineth content was identical to the additions in the Lumineth 2 battletome).

[@Dagglestone]

I listen to these even tho I’ve never even come close to playing AoS. I just like you guys 🤷‍♂️

[@VinceVenturella]

And I appreciate that greatly. :)

[@sirbobulous]

An informal requirement for display boards is basically saying: "No, don't even try to enter hobby events, fuck off pleb". I like the idea of smaller dioramas as a painting project, but a display board for an army is an entirely different scale of thing. And then what do you do with it afterwards? It's a massive chunk of space to store and you need to be careful with it to not break or chip the components so just jamming it somewhere it fits is not the best idea.

[@3grotsinatrenchcoat]

I am working on a portable display board for a Nighthaunt army everything completely magnetized - max safety for those fragile boys. Would love a show on this topic and please dig deep into that of rabbit hole geekiness. That's what I'm here for.

[@TrippyTheShroom]

If the Light of Eltharion and Lyrior are anything to go by, I get the feeling when the Tyrionic side is released I may have a financial crisis. It's like Old World High Elves cranked to 11 and it's basically all I want lol.

[@VinceVenturella]

I agree, I think that side will be amazing.

[@beardhammerwargaming]

Guys, the rumour engine is obviously the conformation for the GW/Playstation crossover 😂

[@SuperDuperHappyTime]

After four straight weeks of Tominating the cohost spot, it’s clear what’s going on. Tyler fell in love with painting and next we see him his painting arm will be swole a la Quagmire discovering Internet P***.

[@fullcirclenerd1774]

Vince shutting Tom down about purchasing his Skaven army is gold. 😂😂😂

[@LakeyWargames]

I've been looking forward to this book for awhile as I loved High Elves back in the day so LRL was a natural fit for me. Book seems alot more balanced and hopefully I won't get death stared just for playing an army I enjoy anymore as half the broken combos are gone. The main thing I wish for is to actually just keep this book for a considerable amount of time to actually play around with it and not replace it in the next 6 months... :') But well, we shall see. Thanks for the show as always guys!! :)

[@SlamTackle]

You know it's going to be a good video when you open it up and Martin Orlando's there.

[@hobbyton3575]

Ive been looking for a while for a new army, and haven’t really settled as I really don’t like magic, or slow and methodical armies, or shooting armies, but I also like to really wreak havoc. And then I stumbled over the thought “what about ironjawz?” Now I’m going all in on cabbages and rogue idols and rewatching your 5 hour show in war clans!! 😊

[@VinceVenturella]

Now you have the right idea.

[@sunnycaljon5319]

Are display boards something for tournaments? I have never heard of them besides armies on parade.

[@VinceVenturella]

Yes, for tourneys and for Armies on Parade, both use them.

[@sunnycaljon5319]

@@VinceVenturella are the mandatory for tourneys?

[@VinceVenturella]

@@sunnycaljon5319 They are not mandatory, but often if you want a chance at a hobby award they are counted, and some packs award extra points for them in general.

[@keithrogers6876]

It has probably been said already but I can see Ymetrica lists with all Alarith plus an Enlightener for Protection of Hysh and double target Speed of Hysh. Also Alumnia looks interesting for Vanari heavy lists once Expert Conquerors goes away, even before that happens super speedy Dawnriders counting as two models for objectives could make for some interesting play.

[@starslayer2438]

I knew that people hated the rules of the foxes. Understandably. Glad they fixed the movement. However, I have never heard of someone hating the minatures. They are awesome! Glad that GW is still on a roll with the 3E books and managed to streamline and un-NPE another faction.

[@VinceVenturella]

TOm is on the weird hating side of the foxes, I love the foxes, I think they look awesome.

[@stenmadsen7406]

@@VinceVenturella I completely agree, they look awesome

[@emosdead420]

Thanks for the shoutout Tom, I do indeed remember those bladelords, who could forget the counting! FWIW it was indeed into a unit squig hoppers, I did not bring any squig herd to Holy Wars!

[@VinceVenturella]

But you do confirm that he failed to lift the whole unit. ;)

[@emosdead420]

@@VinceVenturella oh unquestionably, they had no save and still lived

[@seraphoncobus]

The rumor engine is one of those 3d printed dice set holder swords.

[@anarchistkobold4375]

Personally would love a show on display boards, I've really no idea where to start.

[@Curran_Kleen_Brown]

Good show, and I am excited about the book for LRL players. They will probably be more fun to play against. About display boards, I have so many thoughts, and would love to see a show about them. The TL;DR of it is it should NOT be a requirement for best painted, nor be scored as a part of it, rather it should be its own category. Make display boards its own thing.

[@andreasrasmussen195]

Reppin Team Tom all the way from Denmark wooooo!! 💪🏻💪🏻

[@LukeDawson22]

The Chameleon skink and rumor engine combo reveal had me partying from sun up to sun down. Luckily only made one friend hate me this time.

[@Wijkert]

7:48 rough times Vince, rough times

[@rmulshine]

For the incarnate trick you can have an endless spell and charge it

[@takeovermars]

It's silly the rate LRL gets "new" books especially looking at the older books. However, it's really nice to see they made some good changes.

[@mrigank3855]

Light of Eltharion got me thinking why Bastian and Yndrasta type models are over 300. 270 would be more than fine. Everyone is hitting out here with ghal maraz force

[@Goon94]

I have been completely underwhelmed by Yndrasta for her cost. 2 small dragons seems so much better to me. I have run Eltharion too, he did work for me, but seemed a little slow getting there. At this point in 3.0 a lot of the big stormcast heroes seem really swingy to me. A 4+ ward can mean they are super tough and hang in there or just melt in one round to a mediocre hammer unit. I have enjoyed playing my Stormcast army but they seems so susceptible to mortal wounds. My friends Sylvaneth army wiped hundreds of points off the table with some mortal wound spell he was casting through a woods, it was absolutely brutal and my armor did nothing.

[@drzephy]

I feel like there is a tommy army for me in this book with like 2 cows and lots of stoneguards

[@11notintheface]

YES to display board episode. My Kruleboyz need a purpose, and on display is just about the best thing they're good for.

[@Goon94]

Yes it's kind of sad where Kruleboyz are at right now. I actually think the idea for the army is pretty cool. I hope the get some help. I also have a ton of old fantasy orcs I would like to run as them but it's hard to get motivated with the state of that army right now.

[@stenmadsen7406]

It's time for another excellent LRL review. Thanks guys. I was wondering if you could post a few lists like you did with Sylvaneth. It's not like this book is completely new for you guys.

[@VinceVenturella]

Great suggestion!

[@TombKingTristan]

Helon Motorcycle Gang, LET'S RIDE

[@colonelcabbage]

I was just about to write a comment about the Beast-Smasher feeling pretty inadequate compared to Avelenor, when you said it yourself Vince. I’m not sure how you say the mega is 100 points more. I think that unless you have a lot of MWs Avelenor is probably harder to kill. I feel like we’re going to be fairly simpatico on the book next week. Some good stuff, but some puzzling decisions also.

[@woolf552]

thanks, Great content as always! re twinstones I think its too expensive as it dissappear after use, its so bad action economy, in particular as you can't buy an extra cast with a penny anymore. either drop it to smth like 10pts or let it be cast without eating a cast or allow it to stick around I think..

[@mr08evox]

Kinda looks like Doom and Darkness’s place Tom.

[@alexblack1367]

Hmmmm why do you guys think the sentinels getting sunmetal in close combat isn’t intentional? The fluff sentences for sunmetal on their warscroll says their bows and their blades. Great review, glad to see a more balanced book

[@VinceVenturella]

Just seems strange, but it could very well be intentional.

[@autumnlotus6250]

I wasn't present for the livestream, sad to say, and I know this was a stopgap video but I'm still curious: what are you hoping to see for new models for this army? Assuming it WILL be getting range additions, and they will follow this elemental temple release pattern. You mentioned wanting a real anvil/non chaff infantry I believe. For me, personally, I'm really hoping for a dragon princes style fire cav unit. Riding more Asian looking dragons, vaguely like the old high elf dragons, and being a 5 man equivilent to SCE drakoth unit. Have the riders be spear/guan Dao wielders, and maybe give them a fiery form mode where you sacrifice armor for higher damage potential

[@autumnlotus6250]

I haven't bought into this army yet, as I've ranted on and on about before, because the army has never gotten to the bits of the old high elves that I loved. Mainly the order draconis stuff, old Alarielle with her "cleaner wood elf life magic" units (god I miss handmaidens), and the ability to take mages on mythical dragons. No army has really scratches that itch I have without a ton of proxying, and I miss it a lot

[@VinceVenturella]

I think your ideas here are awesome, those would be great for a Tyrion force. :)

[@philipbowles5397]

I expect Tyrion to be a 'mirror' to Teclis with a phoenix or dragon companion instead of a sphinx. The 'missing' units from the HE roster are White Lions (assuming Stoneguard are regarded as equivalent to Phoenix Guard), phoenices, dragons, Tiranoc and lion chariots (with the Spirits of the Wind basically being Lothern Skycutter analogues), Dragon Princes and Sea Guard. Of those dragons are obviously the most high profile omission, and they or phoenices (turned into suitable mammalian variants for the army theme) make sense as the zenith elemental (as Lumineth have 'zenith' instead of fire). Dragon Princes could have a role there - although they officially exist in the background as a Cities subfaction that isn't currently supported with models, that was also true of the Eldritch Council before Bladelords and the Enlightener re-added the Swordmaster and High Elf mage archetypes to Lumineth. River elementals, or at least things that may be related to them, have been described as 'pachyderm sages' so we may get some sort of elephant-themed unit. Not sure what their associated aelementiri might be, but something that acts as a melee chariot might be welcome.

[@wideboyrob]

I doubt the rumour engine is for a model coming out soon in the Seraphon Warcry warband. Rumours are generally much further out - 1 year or more.

[@VinceVenturella]

They often are far out, but not always. We can hope. :)

[@philipbowles5397]

I'm hopeful about Ballistae and Bladelords as the models are so attractive, but I don't think either quite gets there. Bladelords are basically Namarti Thralls now, without rend and with an extra wound for twice the price - the precision strike still suffers from very low damage output. The Lord Regent being able to power them up is the one thing that might get them there, and at least they have a defined role, but being a non-wizard unit and having damage output not much greater than Wardens is still a poor place to be. Ballistae still just very high variance given the random damage for their cost. A 130pt single model with 3 attacks needs to be more reliably impactful even with good-quality attacks.

[@philipbowles5397]

First game with the new book seems to confirm my impression of the Ballista, but I was much happier with the Bladelords than I ever was in the past. Damage-wise they still have to make a good argument to supplant the Wardens, but they have a more clearly defined role - they put out a little more damage when on the offensive as well as slightly cheaper, and a unit of 10 is good at assassinating mid-sized single units like chariots (mine downed a Doomwheel after absorbing its charge for little loss).

[@tomaszlucjusz113]

If Warhammer is part of MtG now, does it mean that Magic players are fine with 2D printing?

[@VinceVenturella]

Nope, not yet. ;)

[@Zaiko000]

Eltharion at 240 seems really strong. I dont know enough about all the synergies in this book but just the warscroll itself seems a lot better than MANY of the models in the 300-400+ point range. Attack profile, ethereal 3+ 8W, ok shooting attack, damage reduction.

[@philipbowles5397]

I'm looking forward to trying him, simply because the Lumineth lack any other combat heroes other than the much pricier Avalenor. Almost all the many Lumineth heroes are support pieces.

[@Mithlinthar]

Hmmm... Imagine taking a defensive Treelord ally with Big Cows. Be charged, activate strike last on 3+, then attack with 5A 5D cows. Nice.

[@rowandecker8473]

Yay! Love the Martisodes😁

[@TerrierHalo]

My honest answer about display boards is I am not even curious. Probably because to me display boards look like a lot of expensive work for no fun in the end. :D

[@Nubgan]

Yeah, I am feeling good now with my Lumineth, lots of nice choices finally for some lists, but I bet I still mine the salt hard because of what people remember! PS: How to hack display boards show when? :D

[@mritsscottie]

You boys missed a lot of Eltharions warscrolls with the shooting, exploding 6s and also ignore negative effects on hits rolls. Otherwise great work as always

[@VinceVenturella]

Yes, I didn't cover the stuff that had remained the same, but he is an awesome piece now.

[@Thaumatolgist]

I think the fix for Total Eclipse is make the Lumineth also suffer a negative effect of some kind, so it isn’t a no-brainer. It is board wide because it is an eclipse. If you are shutting off the light of Hyish that will have an effect on you too. Aetherquartz can’t be used while it’s up? Some other negative impact?

[@oldaccount1378]

makes the name fit better too! TOTAL eclipse not “eclipse only for your guys specifically”

[@ghostmutton]

So, legitimate question. How are you supposed to deal with a mountain cow if you can't spam dozens of mortal wounds? It seems basically immortal from normal attacks and will obliterate any other unit it touches. I'm guessing just screen and try to avoid it as much as possible?

[@VinceVenturella]

It will go down to just raw mass attacks, especially if you can draw out their All out Defense somewhere else, but between AoD, the rend ignore and the aetherquartz, it's a very tough target.

[@ObsidianCrane]

I think: * the Enlightener makes the Twins less attractive. * Loremaster is an overlooked Command ability, as it makes the Enlightener better able to flex her points. * Alumina will be better once GV is dead. Because putting 20 Wardens on an objective and having that be 40 bodies is a thing. * In a game where movement matters, Foxes are still amazing. They are a 36" moving artillery piece. If your opponent is chasing that instead of other units, that's probably a net gain for you.

[@Whorabl3]

I kind of thought you'd be a bit more positive on some of the changes particularly when you factor that one of the issues with LRL was always paying a premium on units and having to play pretty tight Warhammer to get a good bang for your buck on 'em. Now they've removed/toned down a bunch of the control mechanics, various toolbox items and lambent light/voice and we're still paying the same premium. Like, you got what you wanted, no? Anyways, I'm used to it now and I still appreciate you doing the show so don't get me wrong, I just feel like there was a real opportunity to be positive here, that's all. I'm also glad Tom at least seems like he's excited to play his High Elves again!

[@VinceVenturella]

I felt I was pretty positive. :) - My real hope was just that they ditched more complexity and made the elves more elves, but I think Martin nailed it that this army won't feel done until we get Tyrion's half.

[@Whorabl3]

@@VinceVenturella god willing.

[@Goon94]

I thought that total eclipse would be gone. It's just so brutal, especially against certain armies. But I think the nerfs outweigh the buffs in my opinion. I don't think Lumineth are going to be a top tier army in the current meta but I could be wrong of course.

[@philipbowles5397]

They arguably haven't ever been a top tier army - their synergies let experienced players get a lot out of them and they top tabled a lot, but they rarely had more than middling win rates (i.e. low 50s). They occupied one of those difficult spots where they had a play pattern that felt oppressive and was so unenjoyable that it felt more powerful than it was without really having the power to match, other than in specific matchups which favoured them disproportionately when factions they hated on were doing well - the 40k comparison I'd make would be 40k8 Triptide. I think the last books were just badly designed, with horrendous internal balance, lots of 'gotcha' designs, and generally very poorly thought-out artefacts and subfactions. The new one seems to have focused on fixing a lot of internal balance problems, which I think has been broadly but not fully successful (relics and traits still mostly bad, subfactions still more uneven than in the best-designed AoS 3 books, Ballista still awful, still a lot of superfluous middle-quality support heroes that differ in little more than warscroll spell and points cost). But I agree the power level is at best static - this seems an army that will allow a wide variety of builds to hit win rates of perhaps 50%, rather than one that will improve the faction's currently poor fortunes.

[@Goon94]

@@philipbowles5397 I completely agree with everything you said about them. I especially liked how you said the fact that they were so oppressive and unfun to play against made them feel more powerful than they ever really have been. I think that sums it up very nicely.

[@eldenwarden9673]

I like the changes, overall we should hear a lot less about lumineth NPE and sentinels ruining games.

[@Cow118]

A cool way to fix foxes will be adding text: "when you use the redeploy command ability on this unit, move 6". Or roll 2D3 if you real hate this damn foxes..I mean, actually they lose identity and utility on battlefield.

[@Aki777craft]

Dam painting competitions sound like pay to win

[@spatzilly]

Martin wins. This is a man who bangs for real.

[@andrewsimmons2711]

It's Orlandoooooo

[@colonelcabbage]

Not only is this the 4th LRL book in 2 years, the first book came out 2 years after BoC got their book… 🤯

[@haydnwilliams5027]

Alarith units are low key trying to take the "stand on objectives and win" crown from sons of behemat.

[@Leviticushateford]

100% do display boards

[@jamesalexander222]

Poor Tom trying to use logic against the lumineth hate! He’s so right about the foxes.. an argument can be made that they were npe.. I think I agree with that.. but I don’t think anyone was saying they were straight up under pointed..losing those three abilities cuts the utility of the foxes by a crazy amount, but the regular foxes dropped like 15 points? I’m all for changing wars rolls to make the game more fun for everyone.. but it’s sad to see models relegated to shelf status.. I really would’ve liked to see a much bigger points decrease, or the abilities being replaced with something else cool.. especially for models as beautiful as the foxes

[@VinceVenturella]

That I agree with, upon some more reflection, I think they should come down some points.

[@matthewjanack1124]

Still think total eclipse is fine.

[@MKDietz]

Tom saying "you missed it" regarding the Rune of Petrification, to then say the exact same thing Vince just said is kinda hillarious. I actually, honestly wish Tom would stop trying to one-up Vince in almost every episode. I know it's quite often in good fun, but the explanations/rants/talks sometimes become so long, circular and it doesn't need to be. Other than that, really good show :)

[@dannythompson9642]

👍👍

[@chenlmax]

Host, you come off a bit aggressive. Good discussion and content.

[@1989eol]

Why be disappointed in Tau for those symbols? They are the babies of the galaxy! They should play with baby toys!

[@Dje1025]

I’m here for the mispronunciations. What even is Warhammer?

[@mogwaiman6048]

I'm not a fan of the word soup on some of these LRL warscrolls, it's completely off putting to me. Even the basic Vanari units are written this way.

[@philipbowles5397]

I find it much more usable - and you just need to read a couple of reviews saying "Now Bladelords have shining company" to realise just how unclear the old rules were even to some experienced players. It's soupy, indeed, but this is a rules-dense army and this is definitely a good way to present it - the battletome is actually useable as a reference now rather than something you need to learn by heart before the game to avoid every turn being an hour long. Though honestly with the changes to Shining Company they could just make it a flat rule that Vanari units get -1 to hit them without mandating bases in contact at all, since it no longer has real drawbacks but is a little fiddly.

[@Mnil7]

Let's stack more saves and wards, let's make people bring more MWs, this is the name of the game!

[@niilofriden4465]

.

[@entertherussian6457]

After this book can we agree no more new Lumineth anything for like 3 years? It’s ridiculous how much more attention they’ve gotten compared to every other army in the game.

[@VinceVenturella]

I'm good with it.

[@philipbowles5397]

Oh no. It's the rule now that Lumineth absolutely must get one book a year. At least until they have the river units, zenith units, and Tyrion.

[@komoroff69]

Yeah, Teclis going down to 700 makes perfect sense, following the same logic, Glottkin should go down to 500 😀

[@cultist1762]

These elves should just get eaten by Slaanesh again the world was better off lol.