Vintage Story Needs Better Endgame

[@qptech]

The true endgame is storage

[@Oscillascape]

So you saying you want the multi sorter at 2x hopper speed, with thousands of chests for every item? 😇

[@qptech]

@@Oscillascape or AE/RS Style storage... also finished the video later on and based on your end game building you should check out the Chisel Tools mod! (full disclosure: it's my mod, but also I made that mod for the exact reason - copying stuff etc)

[@Oscillascape]

Haha, I actually noticed you had a few mods, before reading this. Tech mods are something I will probably start checking out soon as I get bored with vanilla loop. Thanks for your service. Now can you make a replay mod, I almost want to learn how to mod just so I can make that, the biggest thing I miss from Minecraft for video making. It would be huge for KZbin community:).@@qptech

[@EnBuenChileno.Gaming]

I think the game is still so green that the developers are focusing on the basics. Just a few weeks ago we were able to see the first-person mode, which in theory is the definitive one. They have been working on the graphics engine clearly and not too much on content.

[@Oscillascape]

Yes, that's why I am pretty excited for the future. The best time are still ahead. The content will come in time and modders will fill the gap.

[@EnBuenChileno.Gaming]

@@Oscillascape And in fact something very exciting happened in this 1.19 and that deserves all our attention. An entire mod was introduced to vanilla. This mod was very popular and was called caprerilonae or something like that. The community now knows that if your work is very good, it will surely be part of vanilla one day.

[@Oscillascape]

@@EnBuenChileno.Gaming That's cool that they are willing to integrate mods into core game. I always wondered why devs are so hesitant to do just that.

[@nullpoint3346]

@@Oscillascape Something about law issues.

[@NikIsName]

Here's a quote from an interview with the devs "At what point would you consider the game to be "finished". T) Once we have a full story arc. We're about 10% there, I think." there working with the story before the major content(makes sense to, you do story and mechanics before art and detailed progression)

[@JudahDavis]

The inherit limitations of building in vintage story make my little cottage as meaningful as a castle in Minecraft. That's not a limitation, that's a feature. Instead of Minecraft automation it would be really cool to see village or kingdom-based systems in a sandbox game to allow for large structures through NPC and player cooperation.

[@Oscillascape]

I get that. I think the friction of acquiring materials make them more meaningful. But Vintage Story leans a little hard to the "way too hard to acquire" side for most non basic materials (soil, sand, etc) I would have lost a lot of interest in the game if stone quarry mod didn't exist and provided me with a variety of colors to work with large quantities.

[@Water-rg7gp]

​@@Oscillascapewhich would be solved by said system, villagers providing unique more advanced resources, allowing the player to specialize into more advanced or beautiful structures

[@Water-rg7gp]

or npc cooperation in general

[@Water-rg7gp]

npcs taking a input and producing a output, like you have to give a npc tools to perform their job, and provide them with the food neccecary to survive, in return they produce materials that result from doing this task, reducing the need for the player to spend time making these resources, then we can automate entire systems, like explores find patches of materials and report them to miners to dig out, the ore is then brought back and processed by blacksmiths, all of which are fed by farmers, then the whole system is self sustainable

[@Water-rg7gp]

for reference: the minecraft tektopia mod

[@weevil8025]

I really want pets in vintage story, like a companion that'll be with you, hunt with you, sleep by your bed and so on. Hopefully those wolf pups you can buy is a hint at that in the future. Yes, wolf taming isn't realistic, but Vintage story is a mix of fantasy and realism.

[@Oscillascape]

I don't think wolf taming is unrealistic at all. That's how we ended up with dogs after all. Wolf taming and animal riding would be dope.

[@weevil8025]

It is unrealistic because we didn't tame wolves, wolves slowly evolved into dogs over time around us. There was no point in history when we were walking our pet wild wolf.@@Oscillascape

[@ashermacdonald6823]

@@weevil8025 the game does has a domesitcation system based on the generations of animals, i havent used it much, but maybe if you raise wolves for 5-10 generations then they would become domestic and you could have them as pets, just an idea of how it would work while following the games logic idk

[@Yuuni_Shiroza]

​@@ashermacdonald6823 true. Domestication takes so much investment but if the reward is a Pet/companion that I can go to adventures with?. that would be so fun. and considering the Investment you put through. it goes hand in hand with frustration and fear that you might lose them.

[@PixelSlayer247]

There is a mod that lets you tame a bear, with plans to make craftable armor, saddle and saddlebags/storage for it

[@salthin]

I mostly agree. With the addition of the night vision mask, among the other jonas tech things, I feel like a light-steampunk would be great future path for the game. Perhaps siphons that suck temporal energy from temporal storms to power steam engines and basic fabricators? I feel like making basic jonas parts, or at least imitations would be great as well. I don't want this game to go "industrial" per se, since the homestead and the upkeep is what I enjoy most, but I do think that dipping a little into automation and eldritch fantasy for power would be a great direction.

[@Oscillascape]

Good points. I think there are some decisions for devs to make. I want Vintage Story to maintain its flavor without going extra crazy with gadgets and tech, but there is a lot of room for cool stuff to be explored.

[@Ghorda9]

i think going full industrial steam/clock punk is a good decision considering you already have things like thunderlords, mechanical bugs and teleporters etc.

[@antares1840]

To me a good endgame would be discovering the game lore. Automation should be an optional thing.

[@Oscillascape]

Lore is cool. Developers are going to add a lot of it in the future, so you are in luck.

[@jakepierson6208]

For me, what I would consider endgame is buling a steam engien and gasifier and all that tech.

[@Oscillascape]

That would be dope! I think they are coming. 1.19 has the tech for that exact purpose, multi block engines etc. Can't wait.

[@jakepierson6208]

Yep. Especially since I want coal gas to be added in to make coal last longer.@@Oscillascape

[@dazedandconfused5711]

Yes, steam power is on the roadmap. Endgame will be very Steampunk.

[@Kh0rnet]

1.19 (available as an unstable build for download) has already added a mini dimensions support system. However, here is a direct quotation from the public developer notes attached to its patch notes: "There are no current or long-term plans to include any other full new dimensions (new world levels or other game content) in the vanilla game, but we wanted to begin now to make that at least potentially possible for mods." So we are (probably) never getting something like the Nether in VS. It's most likely a system to support vehicles(ships?)/elevators and such.

[@Oscillascape]

Well, I wouldn't say never. I can see them adding it down the line, but it would be likely 3-5 year timeline judging by the roadmap.

[@Anathematise]

I find it a bit interesting that this is supposed to have Eldritch horrors, but won't do hardly anything with it, which I find sad as that's a whole treasure trove of fun and creativity that they can play around with!! I'd love a whole item set that's Eldritch fantasy themed~ At this point, and long-term point, it's mostly just a Medieval Minecraft. lol

[@Terraphice]

I'd like to see the Rust World actually become an end-game dimension, either through mods or in vanilla.

[@ALEXZANDER_YT]

i dont want the automation of minecraft to be in Vintage story exactly - if so i would prefer automation based on real life - but i agree in other aspects

[@Oscillascape]

Yes Minecraft automation is way too much for VS. I want something reasonable, but at least something to help with acquisition of harder materials and automation of boring tasks like panning and smithing.

[@Danny76420]

Automatic panning is an afk temporal Gear Farm. Way to Op imo

[@entelin]

Yup, agree with everything here. Create is a fantastic game in and of itself, I'd love something thematically similar for VS. But most of all, it just needs more adventure content, more things like the archives. More mob variety, etc.

[@Oscillascape]

Glad we are on the same page! Excited to see more from the developers.

[@andreasservan9545]

I totally see the point of this video, but this is the main reason the game is not on Steam yet; it's not done, and they don't want people to expect a finished experience. So criticizing the endgame at this point isn't completely fair. If the same problems are there when they launch the 1.0 version, that's a completely different story. Videos like this is great as suggestions and/or expressions of worry though. I love what they're doing with this game, and 70 hours in I still have loads of projects and goals. The same can't be said about most titles out there. And I hope the improvements they do to the endgame is more in line with what sets this game apart from Minecraft; the survival aspect. I don't want a Minecraft clone, with redstone, multiple dimensions etc. I want natural catastrophies; coldsnaps, volcano eruptions, floods, droughts etc. I want unnatrual eclipses. I want my curiosity both rewarded and punished when I explore the world. This game has the perfect opportunity to scratch the itches that Minecraft can't, and I love it.

[@Oscillascape]

You are right, it's not finished. I am very excited to see where it goes development wise. I absolutely hope they keep the game contained and not go all over the place like Minecraft. we don't need a clone, I agree. Also, is it coming to steam ever? I was under impression, that it probably won't. Regardless, I am making videos on vintage story because I love the game and only want best for it. I am slowly adjusting to vintage story mentality and leaving Minecraft brain behind!

[@andreasservan9545]

​@@Oscillascape From what I've heard and read, other than polish and adding some more features, they basically want to finish the story and the implementation of it to the game before launching it on steam and other platforms as a finished product. Which may take a while, because the lore of this game is DEEP! Supposedly. So we might only have seen the tip of the iceberg when it comes to both the dungeons/special locations, and the end game for this thing. As someone who played both Minecraft and games like Rimworld long before their final release, I don't mind being part of the journey and see how this game evolves on its way to a final release.

[@cyclone7179]

I completely agree with you on automation. I have been playing the create mod a lot recently and think that sort of immersive system of automation would fit seamlessly into the world of vintage story. Basic electricity or steam power would probably also work down the line but who knows. I think that sort of satisfying tech progression would be a natural extension of the game and would love to see it

[@Oscillascape]

There are lore basis for all of this tech already. I think thematically this all fits perfectly with the game. Hopefully that stuff will be available to us, rather than saved for the people that vanished!

[@AaronL0905]

Endgame for this game should be not have to sort like 99999 chests every few hours bc you got laze and storage got shaken up

[@Oscillascape]

I know. I need inventory profiles mod but for vintage story. It's always one of the first mods I install when I play Minecraft, specifically for it's ability to sort through chests.

[@ranaku603]

The thing is tho that you can make your game easier, if you want to get more into building then you can make ores abundant or make it so you have less hunger. That is kinda already in the game. Also i believe in the long run Vintage Story is meant for Multiplayer. The game is about realism, at least a bit. And the pyramids weren't build by one person either...i guess...i mean i wasn't there...just a theory. When it comes to endgame content, i would love rifts and alternative dimensions! All of the rifts and the warp screams rust dimension etc. and i hope it's where the story slowly goes. We have to keep in mind that it is still early access, Minecraft also didn't release with the Nether and especially not the End.

[@Oscillascape]

Well, some materials are still prohibitively expensive even in multiplayer. Some of these issue can be solved with mods but then you have to hope the mod person keeps up the updates. Hence I want it for vanilla. Agreed on extra dimensions, I think it will happen just not anytime soon.

[@Villainilla]

I bought the game last week and have been loving it in spite of the small frustrations when it comes to building and travel, I certainly hope to see how the game progresses from the early access state it's in currently. Great vid!

[@Oscillascape]

It's a great purchase. I got many hours out of it and still enjoying the game. There are lots of mods too, but yes I would like there to be a lot more travel options and improved material acquisition.

[@collinnicholasns]

The biggest issue i always had with Minecraft machines was that once you build alot of them thats it. There is no upkeep and they just continue producing infinite amounts of items and then after running for a few hours you have more of that item than you will ever need. I agree a way to further automate some tasks would be great but i don't want infinite items and make it something that doesn't just pull items out of thin air. Like a machine to automate mining would be good but also once you have mined it you still have to process it and make it into something useable. Also i see that with the inclusion of a mod into the vanilla game and how simple and convenient the mod system is, i feel the developers are using this as a tool to determine what the players are looking for in the game, and also since they are a small group working on this i feel they are also using it as a way of outsourcing some of the work. Its alot easier to incorporate a good mod into the game than take someone's suggestion and build it from scratch.

[@Oscillascape]

It all makes sense. The Minecraft system eventually devalues most materials and makes everything too low effort. I think the idea of automation is good, but Minecraft's execution is over the top. Vintage Story just needs to make things more sensible. Something that fits with the vibe and the more manual world of Vintage Story.

[@Ghorda9]

@@Oscillascape the only automation/semi-automation it needs is to remove the tedium of time consuming tasks you do in early and mid game like smithing so you can focus more on story stuff

[@Horesmi]

I'm really fascinated by microblocks, it seems like a way to express a lot of creativity without having to move around mountains of blocks

[@Oscillascape]

It's great. People say Minecraft has chisels and bits that is similar but that's a mod. I like that it's a core feature and I really learned to love it.

[@k4rma770]

they should have the tedious process of smithing be done by npcs, but you need to pay and provide for them

[@Oscillascape]

I had that exact idea the very first time I interacted with smithing.

[@Ghorda9]

mechanical automation is better and more thematically appropriate.

[@shaynegadsden]

​@@Ghorda9that my thoughts too more progress into machine automation is needed they have this beautiful mechanical system that does so very little

[@jadedlotuz5095]

Chiseling of slags and copy paste more detailed structures. I think can be done with various "machines" or "contraptions" in tiers. So you have something that can automanufacture things with the precision of slabs and stairs (minecraft style). Tier 1. It is just requireing some work to build. Tier 2, then you can go down to half that (in size of the details. this can be mid-game of some sort) And tier 3 you could do fine tune pixel accurate duplication of blocks. This would then be late game unlockable. By some thing. What you think? Cheers.

[@Oscillascape]

I think it's a great idea. Tiered progression makes sense. I don't want things to be given to me. So something hard to construct in the endgame for the chiseled block replication, while having some early game options sounds great.

[@connorgaskill7653]

I'm guessing they're going to add automatons at some point that can automate certain tasks given their place in the lore. Hopefully some steampunk style electric machines get added as well that will allow further automation and more mechanical depth.

[@Oscillascape]

@@connorgaskill7653 The game's lore fully supports high tech stuff, so I am not sure why people up an arms about automation:)

[@madcio]

For chiseled stuff, you could have template mold. Create stuff, create mold of that stuff. Downside would be that only metals or other liquidables could be used as material to make copy. All in all, best solution is indeed to have hirable NPCs that would do specified work (making item over forge for blacksmith, copies of chiseled wooden stuff for carpenter etc). You need to pay them, provide place of work, place to sleep, equipment and food. Unfortunately, it requires a lot of other work upfront, like existence of NPC villages in first place. So, if it happens at all, it will be many years in future. My priorities for VS would be different than oscillascape's or VS dev's, though. I would like to flesh out early game first (more survival options akin to primitive survival mod) so that new player has more options at beginning of game.

[@Oscillascape]

I would be cool with the early game being fleshed out. But yes NPCs is the way to go, although I wonder if they will fit in the lore of VS. I know we have merchants, but I don't know if VS lore supports big settlements.

[@jasohavents]

I really don't want the game to become like create mod. The devs have stated they want to make water wheels and steam power a thing. And there's some really good mods like the Auto sifter that sifts through sand/gravel to get the goodies within. The game definately could do with a mount. I'd love to see something other than a horse. It would be fun to see something different like a Giant Kiwi bird you could ride.

[@Oscillascape]

Makes sense. The more automation the merrier in my opinion, but perhaps Create is a little too far. But there is a precedent for that level of technology in the game if you experience Resonance Archives.

[@CSCrimson]

i think they should add another dimension and it should be SUPER HARD. like im talking you need full plate steel and weapons ect just to get in there. The reward how ever should be some sort of other worldly materials that you can craft weapons and armor that don't break in the regular world but degrade over time in the rust dimension. Maybe it could be a lore thing? The reason being that monsters and the like are escaping the rust dimension because they are slowly rotting and thats why they come to our realm. To escape the eternal degradation of their realm.

[@Oscillascape]

Love the ideas. There is so much blank potential for the rust world. I know a lot of people don't want to follow the Minecraft dimension system, but learning and visiting the rust world would be so dope.

[@Takarias]

I would say that the benefit of limiting automation is that it hugely increases the value of individuals in multiplayer. With automation and duplication, someone makes the farm and then that resource is solved for the whole server, eliminating its value from the 'economy' of the server. With more manual effort and non-free resources, value is preserved and there are more roles that are 'worth it' for players to fill.

[@Oscillascape]

I guess I never played these games with multiplayer in mind, but that makes total sense. I forget that a lot of people only find enjoyment by playing with other people when it comes to block games.

[@Takarias]

@@Oscillascape I haven't actually played Vintage Story with other people yet, but I've seen this play out in other games. (And reality, with automation.)

[@mateusfolletto6142]

Item farming could be relegated to NPCs like Villagers. Even in minecraft, you should be able to put Villagers to work in more useful trades. A woodcutter villager that trades logs and saplings. A cattle herder that takes care of animals. Stuff like that. These kind of mechanics in Vintage Story would go a long way.

[@Oscillascape]

That's fine by me. I think it also makes more real world sense than some weird concocted Minecraft farm. Have NPCs do the labor, but you have to invest into them.

[@jacobyin5320]

Helve hammers, also known as trip hammers, are very much set and forget, attach it to a source of mechanical energy and they will go on and on. Power hammers, as shown as an example in your video, are merely to make blacksmiths jobs easier, cutting down on manpower and speeding up the process. Also as a person who enjoys working with his hands, I enjoy the slow and methodical crafting, it makes me enjoy the effort I put into things. I agree however that there is certainly need for more, but I bare in mind that this game is still very young. I enjoy your content, your videos are one of the primary sources for bringing me into Vintage story, and I look forward to your future videos.

[@Oscillascape]

Well you got me. I don't know anything about helve hammers myself. I have enjoyed the more methodical crafting more as I am decompressing from playing Minecraft. I think most things feel better when they are hard earned. The game is young indeed. It will only get better, which is so freaking exciting.

[@ptrd4111]

I agree with automation. One of my favorite mods from minecraft was Tekkit, or more specifically, Industrialcraft. I dont think the tech should get too intense like those mods, but around the early industrial era. Machines that require good materials, require power and oil to run.

[@Oscillascape]

I think it will add a nice layer to the end game. Something to aspire to and something that helps big projects!

[@LavenThaRaven]

"That Thing" has a name and it is dave.

[@Oscillascape]

So I heard! All hail Dave!

[@promaster4758]

I agree with most of your suggestions. Imo the travelling is the most crucial part currently, exploring far takes a lot of time, I suggested the addition of some domestic animals that could serve as a mean of transport depending on the biome and the cargo capacity (for example yaks in cold biomes or camels in deserts). I hope they add some of this one day.

[@Oscillascape]

I am sure it's all coming, but I kind of want it now 😜 animal riding seems like the easiest thing to do along with minecarts now that they have their new tech from 1.19 patch.

[@eloquentsloth6080]

Wolf taming -> sled dogs

[@cornballmcgoo7174]

what if you complete a portal to another dimension and kill a dragon that is guarding explosive crystals that regenerate it?

[@Oscillascape]

That's an entirely novel and unique idea. Maybe vintage story devs need to hire you!

[@Vike-e]

13:22 The 1.20 update will be adding animal riding, so this shouldn't be a problem.

[@Oscillascape]

Allegedly! I am excited for the riding update for sure.

[@commiec0n721]

I remember playing on a minecraft server that introduced a limited speed boost on specially designated roads which worked as faster travel just enough so that even for travelling thousands of blocks, I'd choose the road as it was more enjoyable to see the world that to skip the travel and it didn't take too long. With the cellar mechanic, Vintage story has shown it's able to categorize spaces into types, so there's clearly potential for that sort of road mechanic and I'd much prefer something of that sort to instant travel.

[@Oscillascape]

That's a cool idea! I think anything that aids travel in a semi realistic way is great. I am down for roads, especially because vintage story doesn't have any ways to modify movement speed.

[@jacobsimon8983]

I disagree with every word you've said. It genuinely sounds like you just want VS to be Minecraft. Visitng the Rust deminsion would likely destroy the eldritch horror aspect of the game. The tension comes from never finding out the mystery, never conquering the challenge. Drifters should always be a threat. The only thing I agree with is automation, but instead of it being mechanical, it should be people. Be able to hire traders to come to your homestead and give them jobs as farmers tailors and smiths.

[@Oscillascape]

Then you don't disagree with every word do you? 🙃 No worries, these are just my opinions. Ultimately, the developers will do what they want, I doubt they will ask me for advice. So don't fear! I do agree on NPC way of doing automation. That is the way!

[@Ghorda9]

i don't understand why people oppose mechanical automation, this game already has steampunk undertones and some basic automation systems. A factory that turns flax twine into dyed linen or clothing even isn't that far fetched.

[@MorfsPrower]

I was gushing yesterday about glassblowing on the forums, thinking how cool it'd be to make red bottles of wine to sell to other players on a server. Come to find out redram first brought up a comprehensive breakdown of the art and implementation in 2018! This game has limitless potential for roleplay purposes.

[@Oscillascape]

I can certainly see that. There is a lot of depth in the game that is great for RP purposes while being somewhat weak from a gameplay perspective. A lot of food/drink stuff falls under that category.

[@Nitram4392]

I know it's probably not happening, but I would love an airship as a mode of transport. It would even fit the slight steampunk astetic.

[@Oscillascape]

Well, the multi block tech they developed, should be theoretically capable, but I assume they will focus on smaller transportation first. Ie: rail carts.

[@Ghorda9]

@@Oscillascape where getting sail boats in the next update

[@Langer99]

To keep with the realism the game, I would like to see automation come in the form of villagers and villages. Attracting skilled villagers and keeping them happy so they produce specialized goods for you. That means you not only have to have the required resources to produce the material, but you also have to sustain the workforce producing the materials. It would be more realistic rather than have a farming machine producing an infinite amount of material.

[@IntangirVoluntaryist]

I agree on all of these points, i even raised them in one of my videos about vs they are addressing some of these in the next release, but still has a long way to go

[@Oscillascape]

Great! This video was very unpopular with a segment of the community. I didn't think it would cause a stir. Glad we agree! I gotta look at your channel mate. Always glad to see VS content creators.

[@IntangirVoluntaryist]

@@Oscillascape i play alot of survival games, like ark, and it has a STRONG end game you could enjoy a variety of great content for YEARS i wish VS was anywhere close to that level but so far i am BORED... ark was ruined by their failed remaster and ending support for survival evolved which was the big success... so now i am exploring other survival games, VS is one of the only decent contenders even with its flaws

[@zwatotem]

I'd say majority of Minecraft's endgame high yield farms are based on bugs or exploits and as you said are simply unexplainable by the average player, because these bugs are unintentional, therefore inherently undiscoverable. So some nerds literally dive into the game's code, because the intended mechanics don't suffice with the ambitious goals these engineers have in mind.

[@Oscillascape]

Ohh for sure and a lot of them are absurd. I don't think it's a healthy route for Vintage Story. I want a low to medium yield automation, something within reason and fitting the universe.

[@Gearsio]

@@Oscillascapethe roadmap states their next age goal as of now is steam, maybe we’ll get something steam punk centric later on with flying ships?

[@azukit7013]

This is adult game，not kid game，This game is slow life style,no need ending

[@Oscillascape]

Everything ends my friend. Therefore it does need one🤗

[@Rune_Scholar]

I don’t think VS needs dimensions, at least not like Minecraft has. Instead, Temporal Storms should drastically change the overworld, more than it does now, which is only visually. Keeping the same topography but with twisted versions of the structures you built or ruins you see and rare hidden things you can find but only while the storm is still going. Perhaps that nearby copper vein you know of changes into a temporal dust vein while the storm is going. This fixes two issues, the monotony of temporal storms, giving you a reason to go out in them, and a “new” area to explore. I do agree that it needs more “endgame” though.

[@Oscillascape]

That's a cool idea, certainly works. Current iteration of temporal stability and storms are just a nuisance with no real upside unless you desperately need temporal gears. I think it would be cool if the extra dimension was a means of fast travel similar to 8 to 1 block ratio of the nether. But that can be solved in other ways.

[@EnBuenChileno.Gaming]

There could also be cities or biomes that can only be explored during the storm or approaching a rift. In the latter case, the effect of instability could only be counteracted with some substance. Wine for example.

[@Rune_Scholar]

@@EnBuenChileno.Gaming There is the implication that the dimensional rifts and lore of the world have something to do with time. What if all of the ruins we see have unruined variants in the “rust dimension” as they would have looked in their day.

[@EnBuenChileno.Gaming]

@@Rune_Scholar I love that idea and I find it more innovative and interesting than filling the game with empty dimensions like in Minecraft.

[@Rune_Scholar]

@@EnBuenChileno.Gaming Thanks. I like gameplay elements that recontextualise what you already know. If you think of the Nether in Minecraft without the use of a portal-as in imagine you could travel to it without a portal-then it just becomes a different set of biomes. You can add many new biomes to a game like MC or VS without them having to be another dimension, and that’s fine and fun, but another dimension, or one melting into your main dimension, should offer more than just a biome change.

[@MaoRatto]

To me, I would love for an animal radar system that requires steel and temporal gears. Where it alerts you about any animal spawns near by you. The automation I think should be a skill for clockworks! As it can be very much give a reason for the risk and reward.

[@Oscillascape]

Radar tech is a good idea! That would save me from so many runins with the local bullies (bears, wolves).

[@Darkfault]

Truth. Loved the survival part of the game, but once you're set up there's nothing else to do. Quit shortly after. No reason to keep playing or come back really.

[@Oscillascape]

The devs will flesh out the end game over time, but it will be a slow process. Meanwhile mods are also helpful. I think we need 5 more years for this game and mods to be on par with Minecraft.

[@Darkfault]

@@Oscillascape Hopefully. I really enjoyed the survival part, it's slower and more relaxing but also more challenging than minecraft. You don't just "rush to the nether, then rush to enderdragon" etc. But it would be nice if there was something to do after you're set up, survival wise - else it just becomes minecraft creative mode with less blocks, where you can build stuff but not much else. Unfortunately I'm very old, so 5 years is a long time ... Wish they broadened selling to maybe not steam, but some other platforms and advertised a bit more - more players, more money, maybe more people to work on it

[@nullpoint3346]

The premise with the Rust World thus far is that you are already in it, you just need to lose your sanity to see the world as it truly is.

[@Oscillascape]

They need to do more with that. Current temporal storms are boring and temporal stability is just a nuisnace. Surely we can have more interesting mechanics tied to the rust world, even if we never get an extra dimension.

[@nullpoint3346]

@@Oscillascape Agreed, I want semi-random teleportation and sudden season changes to be a thing that can happen. Really I'd take just about _anything_ to justify leaving your safe space when it hits instead of punishing players for hunkering down or making it impossible to do so. Cowards should be able to cower and know that they are missing out for it.

[@Ghorda9]

@@nullpoint3346 sudden season changes are bad because that can kill progression for a long time if you get two winters in a row or something.

[@nullpoint3346]

@@Ghorda9 Who said it had to be _mundane_ seasons? Also, you can always just prevent it from doubling, or have the season only last as long as the storm or until the next storm.

[@IFalling_CHERRY_BOY]

Vintage story needs an expansion on the tech tree in an dynamic way that allows each playthrough feels different by limiting the possibilities you are allowed to chose. Some gameplays you may focus on smithing, others alchemy, exploration, shamanism, engineering and so on. The best way to such with preserving the more survival focused elements and heavy grind present on the game compared with other block games is a time progression where the games gets harder and harder as time goes on and certain resources would be only present in certain areas to incentive the player to explore harsher environments with different needs for survival. If you want daturas to make a poison potion or to use to get really high to talk to the gods of time you need to move to south, that is hotter but you have to deal with an more active and dangerous fauna. Add some magic, dungeons and a few other things and the games becomes a master piece. I have the entire design document inside my head.

[@Oscillascape]

It's an interesting concept, but seems like it would require re-imagining of the game from the ground up. I don't see it happening to be honest.

[@IFalling_CHERRY_BOY]

​ @Oscillascape I think a lot of the mechanics are already there, you just need to add things on top. Potion crafting could be a branch of cooking and engineering something you need to explore to get schematics, you can work shamanism on top of the potion crafting adding a few butchering mechanics where you can get bones and herbs. The escalating difficulty could be related to the corruption of the world by the rifts, where you can focus on trying to purify it through several means or fortify your base as time moves, eventually areas where you are not always doing the upkeep become too hazardous to explore freely. You can still get everything for the tech trees, but it gets harder over time. I'm not going through a completely ignorant perspective here either since I already worked on a few mods and games, I would say it is possible, but it would be more something built upon the mechanics already present than something that adds new things completely. It would change the feel of the game a lot, though. so maybe it is a pipe dream. I don't mind dreaming, tho. :0)

[@theguyfromsaturn]

I agree. I would like to see some of the features of create in Vintage story. We need a water wheel in VS in addition to the windmill. Later on Steam Power should also come into play. It already has a "steam punk" vibe to it. The create mod has lots of things that would seamlessly translate to VS. P.S. Your idea of entering the Rustworld is also pretty on point. Many possibilities there. But I think better automation is the way to start.

[@Oscillascape]

I would love that. This game has so much growth potential. I for one cannot wait for updates.

[@Ghorda9]

they didn't add a waterwheel because they couldn't balance it.

[@LoveJupiter325]

What I LOVE about this game is the TON amont of things you can collect ! And one of my goal is to collect EVERY differents shellfish of the game, there is like 6 or 7 differents models, with like 5 or 6 differents colors, a total of approximatovely 44 full differents, and I want them ALL ! xD

[@Oscillascape]

Yes it's a very collector friendly game. Butterflies, shells, paintings, you name it!

[@LoveJupiter325]

@@Oscillascape Yeah ! And about Butterflies that would be cool if we can put their « dead » body on walls ! And cooler if we have a way to capture them Alive then we can free them in a spot we want and they stay forever !

[@brycecohoon]

ATFC anyone? I still haven't "beat" VS but I am looking forward to it so I can get in on this conversation =]

[@Oscillascape]

Atfc? Should I know this acronym?

[@bluewolf361]

A little late to the party, I confess. But my two pence on the matter; Automation I think is a blight on sandbox games. It ends up speeding up and streamline the process of games that are often times meant to be slow-paced and calm. I might be in the minority, but the absolute last thing I want to see is Vintage Story going down the same road of Minecraft where everyone is building mega-colossal farms and equally colossal structures. I personally find that over-automating things detracts from the experience of being the hand that molds the world. The state of VS automation, where it's primarily reducing the overly reptitive tasks (like forging plates, refining blooms, or grinding builk amounts of grains or stones) to be a good middle ground. It's not possible to completely set and forget a part of the game. You always have to interact with parts of it. Looking at Minecraft now, where everyone races to try and reach the end-game as fast as possible in order to construct the next, best, super project I think seriously devalues the appreciation of smaller, more detailed and time-consuming projects. Building a house simply isn't "enough" anymore in Minecraft. Whereas in Vintage Story, dumping a few hours into sculpting a pretty cottage feels extremely rewarding. The length of time something takes has an impact on how rewarding it feels to finish. And online videogame culture has shifted into the mindset of 'never a dull moment'. People forget that tedium isn't a bad thing, as a result of the pursuit of always being entertained 100% of the time. It feels like people have forgotten how to find joy in the mundane. And right now Vintage Story I think encapsulates that. Giving people the ability to automate away the mundane removes those quiet periods where you can really get into the zone of what you're doing. And. In the broader context of multiplayer, allows people to specialize and fill niches/roles. When the endgame focuses on turning Survival into Creative+, it seriously detracts from the survival element. Automation should always have a human component, whether it be maintainence, manual activation (inserting items into a chute for the quern), or manual oversight (Keeping blooms and bars hot enough for the Helve Hammer to work). Allowing for total hands-off automation would kill the spirit of Vintage Story, in my honest opinion.

[@Oscillascape]

I don't necessarily disagree. I think Minecraft's automation is over the top. When I said I wanted automation, I meant the appropriate kind for Vintage Story. Something that fits the speed and vibe of the game, not your TNT duping 1,000,000 items per hour type of stuff. But I do think Vintage Story is a little too slow in resource acquisition, which I am solving with mods atm.

[@bluewolf361]

@@Oscillascape I do agree that Minecraft is *way* over the top. I suppose my main point is that I think it's *meant* to feel slow in Vintage Story. Of course, things like raw stone are absolutely too obtuse to gather in large amounts, and the quarry mod you mentioned I hope one day makes it into the base game. But I think any sort of hands-off automation is a step in the wrong direction for Vintage Story.

[@Oscillascape]

@@bluewolf361 It's definitely a balancing act and I don't want VS to push too far towards ease of access to materials. The power creep in the video game world is real. It is always easier to add more power to the player than to take it away and make them work for it.

[@ulises_ortiz653]

i absolutely agree with you bro, keep doing content like this

[@Oscillascape]

Thanks bud! Will do:)

[@TwoHams]

Another dimension is good because it creates the ability for modders to add other dimensions

[@Oscillascape]

Agreed, there is no real downside, and upside you can creative and unique environments and challenges.

[@aidanwj]

WHAT? minecraft was never the same after they established their endgame. Its a creative survival game there shouldnt even be an end

[@aidanwj]

10:05 alr thats a good idea. having automation in the form of villagers. if they do it tho they should have naturally spawning villages it should be on you to make the village

[@Oscillascape]

Endgame is just a loose word. I just mean more stuff to do for long term worlds.

[@mangotango1031]

All good takes! I hope the devs listen to what the majority of people want added to the game. Smaller studios tend to be more open to input so I have hope

[@Oscillascape]

Thanks man! I just want the game to grow, expand and get better.

[@CSCrimson]

i also the automation should revolve around NPCs instead of machines. Like you can build but a village and all the NPCs in it work for you and do tasks.

[@Oscillascape]

Agreed. Adding NPCs to do your bidding would be my path to a lot of automation that wasn't some magical nonsense.

[@Ghorda9]

not if industry is a heavy theme in the lore

[@Ghorda9]

@@Oscillascape industrial era style factories aren't "magical nonsense" and fits the game perfectly, since we already have helve hammers, windmills and gears

[@pilljoe]

this game is still in early access so it is kind of hard to be patient when you want a bit more content but at least there are mods

[@Oscillascape]

I wish it was developed a bit faster, but hey I will take the game the way it is. The developers are clearly passionate and the community is dope!

[@battleoid2411]

Whoa, the game still in development doesnt have endgame? What an astute observation!

[@Oscillascape]

Thank you! I am indeed very perceptive.

[@Kurazarrh]

I don't think we should be criticizing the game for not having "endgame content" when the game is literally unfinished due to being in Early Access. There is a publicly-posted road map for future features. There may be endgame content coming, but until we see a full 1.0.0 release of the game outside of Early Access, the presence or absence of endgame content isn't really something to talk about because we're literally playing a game that is unfinished.

[@Oscillascape]

Ohh it's Kurazarrh himself. I am a fan! Look, it's just a discussion video. I think it's never too early to criticize the game. I think the game is brilliant and I switched to playing it exclusively, but I can't help wanting more. I know it's early access, but so many games just perpetually stay in EA nowadays. I am just framing what they should focus on in the future. Keep kicking ass my man!

[@Daekanoid]

I'm kinda late to the video and I am personally not a VS player, but I've watched tons of videos lately and I've gotten a feel of what the game is like. Plus i have played terrafirmacraft a lot in the past, and VS feels like a refined and complete version of it. This is what i feel would make the perfect and balanced game: - something that allows players to avoid grinding and farming. I know it's a bit if a stretch in these survival games, but i have an hour every once in a while to play and I don't want to spend all of it looking for some mineral. Thinking about Stardew Valley, you can buy pretty much anything you need for the core gameplay while you have to grind only for the special items or seeds. In VS a good bartering system with "wandering merchants" that appear randomly but often would make things convenient. You might buy all the things that are annoying to farm, and maybe you could exchange drops obtained from temporal storm farms. The important part is convenience: if one likes to farm grass or mine copper, free to do so, but the player should not be forced to farm more than a few minutes in the early game. Maybe the merchant could sell low tier tools for a cheap price, something like that. I think this improvement would be easy and quick to add. - villages and villagers should stay, but rare. This is why I am advocating for travelling merchants. - maybe the commerce could be unlocked progressively with an advancement system. For example: once you mine some copper you can buy it from the merchants. Something like that. - improving the combat system would do wonders for the exploration and lore possibility. Thinking about the Souls games, where the combat system is pretty much perfect. Of course those games are centered around combat and for that reason lots of time is spent refining combat system, but they are a good benchmark to compare against. VS does not need many different weapons and mechanics, it only needs that the ones existing are refined. We need better movements (of both character and entities), better hitboxes, better combat interactions. I think Minecraft's combat is only decent since the character and mobs only have one attack, and the hitboxes are pretty bad, but at least it's very clear when you hit an enemy and it bounces back slightly. VS combat is clanky and weird. What would improve the combat massively is telegraphed attacks by the monsters (also animals like wolves) and that they do not change direction when attacking, plus a way for the player to jump or scoot back or to the side to avoid attacks, all together with small visual effects on the body of the enemies where they are hit. Maybe add two possible attacks per weapon. This way, the combat would be super fun and one could be able to learn it, be challenged even in the end game and increase the longevity and versatility of the game. Imagine: you start off, find a nice spot. Build you small starter base, first weapon and first small temporal farm. If you don't happen to live in an area with clay and minerals, buy basic tools from the merchants so that you are not forced to travel thousands of blocks just to discover a small mineral deposit before progressing. Then, wile the first kilns and charcoal are firing, you can practice combat with neutral wildlife and tier 1 weapons. After advancing for a while and not needing to worry about food you can start exploring and fight bigger and stronger monsters. Instead if you like farming more than exploring you can do that without touching combat or exploration. Imho it's all about not trying to extend the playtime in a forceful way imposing to grind to meet basic gameplay needs.

[@Oscillascape]

I agree on the combat aspects of VS. They need a lot of work. Reducing the grind through automation or other means like merchants seems to be fairly unpopular in the community. I think VS players want a grindier games. However, players are often wrong about game design principles. So I hope, the devs will ease some of the grind pressure in the game and I think most players will appreciate it in time.

[@nathanburgett1599]

Its still way off from having endgame. Its gonna be dope its done. It really shines though in its modding ease.

[@Oscillascape]

Yes modding ease is great. And the endgame will come! I for one, can't wait.

[@nathanburgett1599]

Yeah me too. All great points. I think a lot of those are already planned. Some of them already available with mods. I want to see more done with npcs. I was looking at vs village but I can't get it to work. It needs a lot of work, but I think vs quest needs updates or something. It was saying the dependency wasn't there. And I dont think vs quest has any dependencies. Idk 🤷‍♂️. But I think it'll be better than minecraft in many respects when its done.

[@lordofchaosd327]

That thing has a name, he's called Dave. Also, because of how the VS engine works it's not actually possible for multiple dimensions. I dont know the exact reasons and such but more knowledgeable people have confirmed.

[@EighteenStudio]

1.19 pre release added support for multiple dimensions

[@qptech]

All hail dave!

[@qptech]

@@EighteenStudio *mini dimensions

[@Oscillascape]

Well, I am pretty sure they can make a lot of engine improvements. Doubt that multi dimensions are impossible to pull off for them as they get better at this. All hail Dave ✋

[@EighteenStudio]

@@qptech I wonder what that means. I'm guessing mini dimension means a smaller world or maybe less features?

[@nydaarius6845]

the endgame should be the freedom of creativity. When you went through surviving, all the technologies and the dungeons (talking about finished game), you are done. so what is the best thing you could get in a sandbox? yes. the freedom to create what you dream of. Automation is key. not as crazy and goofy as minecraft. no. it needs to fit the serious and kinda realistic tone of VS. Creative mode isn't doing it for me. i want the challenge and be rewarded at the end.

[@Oscillascape]

Then we are in agreement. I want automation that is appropriate to VS world, not super over the top MC stuff.

[@shadyassassin101]

I don't know if this idea is the best way of handling it But why not just add NPC's. They could act similar to the wandering trader from Minecraft, They would gradually start appearing around player built structures that the player Frequently interacts with Causing them to start Migrating towards player owned bases and Structures where they might spend some time for a short while Before eventually moving on. These characters could be traded with for some minor or meager goods depending on the player's progression throughout the story And could even be hired To do certain tasks for the player Or provide certain tasks. Perhaps depending on how many structures the player has built and the available bed space These characters might be able to be recruited in as villagers or fellow survivors. This could help to make the players build feel a lot less empty and lonely later into the game As well as most likely, providing some sort of feature allowing for an interaction between yourself and NPC's Which could see the player character either taking the role as a fellow villager and leaving the leadership role to an NPC Who might provide tasks to the player and other characters Alongside Main story quests. Perhaps the player could even rise to a leadership role amongst these survivors Allowing them to pay some form of tax to you whether that be in resource or gears Where you would in turn provide them with protection yourself or by hiring guards Who would work on your behalf. I feel for the sake of realism and keeping to the survival elements of the game It would make sense that these characters might start to drain the area of its natural resources Which means unless the player provides them the opportunity or availability to rejuvenate the area around their village, such as replanting trees and crops And Domesticating animals You could see a situation where some settlements might run out of resources, causing the local population to Dissipate and move on or even allowing for the player to resettle their settlement in a new location. I feel like this would be a feature that would be entirely optional and would allow for the players to perhaps interact with settlements of survivors Or even establish their own. This would force survivors to strategically choose areas, rich in resources That their settlement would be regularly using. I like farming and video games But I definitely do not like to have to constantly watch my crops I would love to have a character who could maintain my crops in my stead. Additionally, there could be a reputation system that you could hold with these survivors and with hostile survivors which the player might interact with. There could be regular Civilians who might try to join with your settlement And there might also be some form of bandits Whom we depending on the player's reputation They can interact with differently. A player who frequently attacks other survivors and loots them May be on more friendly terms with the bandits Allowing for a different form of settlement Which might Be approached differently from what you would be doing with a standard settlement. Bandits would most likely not want to do farming or regular tasks and would instead allow other villages to do those tasks and then take the resources from them, Aka Outsourcing their labor And then Utilizing force to take the finished product. This could see a feature where a survivor might have to defend their settlement from bandits Or even join bandits in attacking other settlements. Perhaps settlements might even go to war, allowing for the player to slowly conquer land and resource Well building a Kingdom of sorts. All of this would easily be done in a multiplayer setting with fellow players, but in a single player environment It would be nice to see characters who you can interact with Who aren't stupid like Minecraft villagers And would provide some actual use aside from Locking everyone in a big box breeding machine and forcing them to trade like in Minecraft.... Unless you're into that kind of thing 😬lol.

[@Oscillascape]

An NPC system was one of the things I thought of when originally reviewing the game. I think NPCs make perfect sense as artisans you can hire. In exchange you would have to pay, feed and protect them. Thanks for a very thorough post. I like all of your ideas.

[@shadyassassin101]

@@Oscillascape Sorry for making you read All that, I didn't think it was gonna get any attention.

[@Oscillascape]

@@shadyassassin101 haha, don't be sorry. Thanks for interacting with me. I am still a small enough channel where I read and respond to every comment.

[@arknightsboi2050]

Im not opposed to any particular idea but I only have two thoughts. The first is it feels like you want minecraft from the many references. Bare minimum you want mods which we already have. The second is that the devs seem to be extremely careful on adding things to vanilla as to know break the entire mold of the game. Friends I want fishing but if it ended up like minecraft fishing then food would be worthless to put most the effort in. If the helve hammer could smith anything then theres no point for the player to do it. Its fine to put mods it or change the difficulty to suit you but the true vanilla baseline is meant to struggle. There is also a massive feeling of accomplishment doing the grind or gathering all the blocks for that big project. In minecraft you become a god in a few hours and building big feels worthless in survival. VS does it right.

[@Oscillascape]

Fair, I don't disagree with a lot of your points. I will push back on the notion that you become god in Minecraft in a few hours. It takes much longer than that to be become "god" and that's just the gear. It can take hundreds of hours to build out all of the automation things and mega farms and takes a hell of an effort.

[@arknightsboi2050]

⁠@@Oscillascapei was mostly counting the gear yeah. So I concede on the automation part. I personally never dabbled in the automation of minecraft as it sucked the life out of the game for me. The most automation I did was make massive cowfarms to slaughter in mass…. So nothing really 😂

[@DeltaModelX]

the game's progression is far too long to not be a progression based game

[@Oscillascape]

I don't get it? Did I say this wasn't a progression game? Pretty sure most survival sandboxes are by definition.

[@DeltaModelX]

@@Oscillascape its against the claim you brought up (brought up, not saying you made the claim), that vintage story is a sandbox game, and endgame progression isnt that important, but in this game the progression takes days or weeks and endgame should be important due to the cost of reaching it

[@Kusagrass]

So the majority of the farming options available in Minecraft are more the symptoms of Minecraft’s systems and never initially intended. And, because of the Microsoft purchase, these options might actually become less frequent in the foreseeable future.

[@Oscillascape]

Sometimes emergent behaviors are totally fine. I think Minecraft got a lot of things right by accident and kept them. Now it seems most Vintage Story fans think that Minecraft went way too far, which makes sense. But there is still room for tasteful automation in Vintage Story.

[@alexanderrahl7034]

Why? Why do you need the game to tell you when you're done? Vintage story doesn't need an endgame at all. Decide when you're done for yourself. Figure out your own goals and work toward them. Don't ask the devs to hold your hand

[@Oscillascape]

That is not the point of my video. Did you even watch it!? I don't need anyone to hold my hands, but I do want more things to aspire to long-term!

[@alexanderrahl7034]

@@Oscillascape nope, I didn't. Because my comment is responding do your opening statement made in the title. And the thumbnail.

[@christiangarizio7587]

@@alexanderrahl7034 Endgame is not the end, do you even play games? Endgame is content to aspire to, not a state of arrival. It is, in fact, the beginning of a new phase of your playthroughs. A continuation point. It has nothing to do with forcing the player down a specific route in gameplay, nor does it restrict the player to any specific playstyle.

[@theharbingerofconflation]

It's a pre release and nobody cared about the "endgame" in the other block game for years. Really not a thing to focus on.

[@Oscillascape]

Well, the roadmap says otherwise. They are definitely focused on that thing. Maybe not as an immediate necessity but certainly in the near future.

[@gustavmeier1953]

Bro minecraft had 3 million copys sold after 2 years and is the world best selling game that is out like 2009 and you compare that to a more hardcore like game that dosnt come close to anything archivement wise its like jeff vs some random beggar like a speck of dust vs the moon i bet vintage story will be a great game when its finished it is already for me but pls dont compare it to a game that had all the luck in this world

[@Oscillascape]

Why not? Comparing is a pretty basic human idea. That is how a lot of innovation happens, copy and comparison. I don't think Vintage Story needs to compete with Minecraft or be like it. But I think taking ideas from the best selling game of all time might behoove the developers!

[@gustavmeier1953]

@@Oscillascape sure thing but it dosnt help that VS goes away from the thing minecraft profits the most from easy access and playability that even children or elders can play with without much thinking even all that vibrant colors mc has is great just play around and see what great thinks can come out while Vs will always look pretty distopic so i cant really see how you can even compare that even bye an inch and be like yeah same potential its like dwarf fortress vs rimworld we know its inspired trough df but why is rimworld way more popular same reason as this its not hardcore and accessibile as easy as that

[@awfrailey]

Travel could use some work, but the adage also goes -" There's mods for that." , which has some truth to it. What is "vanilla" is lacking a vast amount of content, mods are needed, even if you just do QoL mods. However , there is a creative mode , so I'm uncertain how you came up there was a lack of such? I for one like that the game doesn't have easy to do, fast automation to MOST things. I'm sure in the future, it will have some more things. I do not want tons of NPCS and machines to do everything I find tedious for me in game, because that tediousness/time investment is part of the games appeal and flavor. I tell others, you want automation, play other games. End game content - what exactly is end game? Cause if there was fifty "bosses" and achievements to be done, once players do all those, they are just going to complain they are bored, there's nothing left to do, and the game needs more "end game content". Travel, could use some work I agree there. Over-all its a wonderful survival/homesteading game , that with mods and settings can be highly customized to your liking. That's what the game devs got right!

[@Oscillascape]

I don't disagree with most of that. I want reasonable automation, not anything crazy. And I have grown more fond of the vintage story grind by now. It's much harder to get materials but it does feel rewarding. End game bosses? The more, the merrier, nobody is hurt by their existence and gives a player a bench mark.

[@Ghorda9]

@@Oscillascape completing a contraption and turning it on would be more suitable than an "end game boss". This game doesn't present any individual as an antagonist. Regular bosses are still fine however.

[@DLunacy78]

I'd rather no bosses/dimensions... but I'd like to see some ways to make farms for mobs and more mobs. technical Mc is why I still play it.

[@Gofaw]

Go play minecraft then

[@Oscillascape]

Yes I would like more farms and mechanism/mechanics. The more the better!

[@Oscillascape]

No reason to be mean.

[@Oscillascape]

He is just expressing his opinion.

[@Ghorda9]

we don't need mob farms, just automating menial tasks.

[@IllD.]

What your wishing for already exists. Its a minecraft mod called Auto Terra Firma Craft. The mod is almost exactly the same. Give it a try.

[@Oscillascape]

I'll look at it! Although, It's a matter of time until some of these features make it to vintage story though, roadmap makes it clear.

[@Rune_Scholar]

Played both. Vintage Story is drastically better.

[@psudobuddha]

The only reason I ever discovered vintage story was because someone told me it was just like terrafirmacraft but better. Sadly, the best version of Tara ferma craft is still stuck in 1.7.10

[@Ghorda9]

@@psudobuddha you have things like primal and kitsu's forge craft for 1.12

[@szasstam5131]

this game isn't minecraft it is its own thing. every suggested feature in this vid basically is "minecraft has this so should vintage story have an equivalent" I think that's really uncreative and shows a lack of insight into what makes VS so special its a cozy atmospheric realistic survival game with creative elements and that's a good thing it should strive to be different than minecraft and not mimic it.

[@Oscillascape]

I am not trying to make it into Minecraft. But it would be foolish not to take the best parts of Minecraft and incorporate them to taste into the game. You might not agree with me, but the devs clearly do. Look at the road map mate.

[@tristanglock4925]

I think too much automation would go outside the vibe and scale vintage story is aiming for. I have seen some incredibly impressive builds in this game, and they aren't impressive because of their scale but instead the attention to detail and craftsmanship on display. Craftsmanship is a word I think is important to the design philosophy of Vintage Story over all. From what I understand they want to rework crafting in future updates as well, and if I had to take a guess as to why it's likely to add some component of quality and skill expression to the mechanics allowing players with greater skill in these mechanics to produce higher quality items. If you where to make the endgame about automating away these tasks it would be to miss the point of why these tasks have mechanics in the first place.

[@Oscillascape]

I think your take is understandable. I suppose chiseling mechanics allows one to focus on smaller scale stuff while making it look impressive. I don't have issues with this. I suppose I wouldn't mind if they supported mega structure artists too, but maybe mods are the way to go for that.

[@tristanglock4925]

@@Oscillascape Honestly though I could see some tools becoming available that while aren't automation make certain tasks easier/ faster. wooden forms for making simple clay objects, casting channels or some other way of connecting multiple molds together to fill them with a single pour.

[@FraggnAUT]

I mean yes, but also it’s a small dev team that has done a good job until now. I give them a few more years until I get a bit twitchy, lol. What will get released sooner? Vintage Story 1.0 or Project Zomboid b42? Heck, how long did your first example, Minecraft, take to add a meaningful ‚endgame‘?

[@Oscillascape]

No worries. This is just a discussion video. I don't expect the devs to address this anytime soon!

[@Overgis4058]

Whats the end game for life? Im not a fan of "end games" its like the devs are saying "you had fun but it's time to pack up." My biggest mistake in Minecraft was soloing the Ender Dragon. I dont even play the game anymore because of that, it's done. Part of what keeps Vintage Story so fresh for me is that I have no cut and clear goal, instead Im just a man trying to survive. Id hate for that to change.

[@Oscillascape]

The nature of a sandbox doesn't change whether there is an ender dragon or not. You could have continued to play the same way before soloing the dragon as you could have after. You deciding to quit, wasn't a product of defeating the boss, but a lack of intrinsic motivation. Extra content is just that, extra content. If you are afraid it will deflate your desire to play, don't do it?

[@Overgis4058]

@@Oscillascape this is true. I guess after defeating the dragon the game lost the spark that it used to bring. I felt like I conquered the game, and after defeating the wither I felt like there wasn't anything left that was impactful. I didnt want to start from scratch from square 1 again, but I also wasnt having fun with the new tools I got from the end. The elytra killed all exploration but it was so convenient that I didn't want to get rid of it. Playing the game just became dissatisfying, and around the same time I found some other survival games and really stuck to those. I still come back to MC every now and then; it just doesnt feel as magical as it did back then so I never keep playing for more than just a few days.

[@LackHapeLuis]

i loved this video! and tyron has said the game is far far from done so i have hope !

[@Oscillascape]

The game will probably stay in perpetual development similar to Minecraft. So in a couple of years we should have a lot more content and I am for one super excited to see where it goes!

[@zerotohero553]

Solid analysis.

[@kurero1431]

then just play minecraft. if someone wants to do megabuilds, wacky automated farms and machines that don't make sense, or other project, then just play minecraft. vintage story has its own identity and goals to achieve. automation would be nice, but minecraft's physics and logic wouldn't fit in VS. it's grounded to reality and familiarity, yet immerses you in its otherworldly settings, stories, and mechanics mixed with elements of horror here and there. and as such, the progression mimics how prehistoric humans survived through the ages until the discovery of man's steel. I don't want to "gather *slime* from *slime monsters* that only spawn in *slime chunks* that you have to dig out a 16x16x256 cuboid hole in the ground to *maximize*, *optimize*, and *efficiently* farm a thousand *slimeballs* to create *slime blocks* for your sugarcane farm to make millions of paper to sell to hundreds of caged librarians to make money and buy enchanted books." I applaud builders who try to make sense of these mechanics by integrating designs and details into farm builds, like support beams for overhanging/floating structures, the typical medieval builds, or just people who want to look at something nicer than an *empty shell of a machine made of mostly stone that's oozing with slime, covered in red glowing powder, and for some reason there's a haybale used for target practice and a wooden lectern.* but I guess it's weird when I put it like that. I like minecraft, it has funny mechanics that only a madman can think of (thanks notch), but I don't think every game should be like minecraft. I like mining out tunnels in mountains being careful not to drop the ceiling on my head, or prospecting and surveying the land before setting up camp to dig out a quarry to mine a lot of stone for cobble, larger rocks for more polished and smooth stone builds, and the penultimate iron source. regarding "endgame" tho, there will come a time when vintage story will start working on steam power, as indicated in their roadmap tldr; minecraft is a silly and fun game, but I don't think vintage story should mimic minecraft's success for its own gain, and instead focus on what it has to offer that minecraft can't, and have people learn mechanics that our ancestors discovered, learned, and perfected for millennia

[@Oscillascape]

I don't want the whackinness of Minecraft. Just more thematic things added to the game. Something that makes sense with the lore and the technology of the universe.

[@colbyboucher6391]

Minecraft tanked as soon as it got an "endgame".

[@Oscillascape]

What do you mean it tanked? It's still the most popular game in existence. Also I don't know if you can blame the end game here. I think it's mostly the dilution of the survival experience for me.

[@colbyboucher6391]

@@Oscillascape I guess I mean that personally, it felt like it became something it wasn't. It implied that everything you do is somehow aimed towards reaching that endgame and that once you hit it, you're just done. The alternative, which they eventually went with, was extending that "endgame" to a point which... diluted the game's survival elements. Particularly in a very un-sandboxy way. I want to come up with creative solutions to problems, not stop thinking about the problem because I got Mending or an Elytra.

[@Ghorda9]

@@Oscillascape minecraft didn't have much of a survival experience to begin with

[@MatthewWilliamsX]

More mobs :💯 Automation :Hell no! At least none of that immersion braking stuff. This isn't some toy world. Many of the players enjoy the immersion in the challenge. The connectedness from inception to goal.

[@Oscillascape]

I only want automation that is sensical and fits the world of VS. Nothing that breaks immersion.

[@Ghorda9]

mechanical automation isn't immersion breaking.

[@LoveJupiter325]

If the game come on Steam one day (and I hope), they NEED to put a lot of Steam Succes, and not only easy ones ! Like more than 100 succes would be cool !

[@Oscillascape]

Do you mean achievements? I am not sure I track what success means in this context?

[@LoveJupiter325]

@@Oscillascape Yeah achievements sorry I am french and it’s called « success » lol

[@tigergaj]

2 minutes in and I would've appreciated it if you kept the video spoiler free, I haven't gotten to end game stuff yet

[@Oscillascape]

My bad. It's only a single story dungeon, so not a ton of spoilage😅

[@decom707]

2:51 That is Dave. Say hi to Dave.

[@Oscillascape]

Dave looks cool, I want to be friends. Do you think I have a shot?

[@chaosenforcerdhm969]

12:30 this feature was likely inspired by a Minecraft mid called bits an chisel so Thai statement is blatantly untrue

[@Oscillascape]

Yes I heard of the mod. You are probably right on that fact. Regardless it's a big selling point for me.

[@jesfest]

Doesn't want the game to lose focus like Minecraft. Constantly asks for features similar to Minecraft. Hm.

[@Oscillascape]

Yes, features that developers even agree, they want in their game hmm. 😘

[@Kh0rnet]

It's a delicate balance, but it can be done. As pointed out, the game already lost a "bit" of focus when it moved from purely "realistic" energy utilization (windmills) to pseudo-magical contraptions (temporal gears, Jonas parts). However, I do agree that there's a fine line somewhere for an authentic experience (the word "realistic" has a lot of difficult connotations, so I prefer "authentic") that Minecraft crosses many, many times. Not that there's something strictly wrong with that, though, just not the type of game VS should become. I believe it was stated by Tyron somewhere that the end-game tech for VS would be steampunk.

[@Oscillascape]

@@Kh0rnet Steampunk sounds dope. You can see a lot of that influence in Resonance Archives with furnaces that operate large machinery.

[@tricky2917]

I think VS should be free to explore what it means to not be Minecraft.

[@Oscillascape]

Learning from other games is an important part of development. What they should learn from Minecraft, is up from the debate though.

[@Ghorda9]

@@Oscillascape minecrafts endgame isn't exactly good to begin with, it was just an excuse to add a dragon and an end credit screen.

[@JoachimVampire]

Te game is about ~10% done, they want to make true history.. the title is quite misleading becaise it seems like you have an endgame already while you don't. This is like purchasing a 3D printer and while it is still on delivery you play with the purchase receip..

[@Oscillascape]

That seems like an arbitrary number you came up with. I didn't say the game is done. Just that in the current state, I wish there was more for an end game player. Don't think the title is misleading at all:)

[@JoachimVampire]

@@Oscillascape not really an arbitrary number considering the fact that tyron himself said that in an interview, but anyways, do you really check the forums? because updates are being poured at lightspeed for what it is. the roadmap is MASSIVE. woodworking. did you read that? WOOD. WORKING. the crafting mechanics (the 3x3 crafting grid) are gonna vanish and be replaced... that's A LOT of work to do specially because tyron himself said that the grid is a placeholder... and a lot of changes to the the jewelry/clothing. just with that you can tell that the game is still barebones, not only that he says that he plans to keep adding content after releasing "out of early access" because acording to him the game is around 30-50% done for what he has planned just to get out of that... i wish other games had SO MUCH care...

[@saintco3pcs2m95]

No intresting locations? bro its literally the best designed scariest dungeons ever lmao?

[@Oscillascape]

Not sure what you are trying to say? The only hand built location is the resonance archives so far, but 4 more are coming in 1.20!

[@saintco3pcs2m95]

@@Oscillascape theres tons of dungeons with little furniture items? The dungeons are similar to the archives just randomised,

[@iooosef6006]

What VS needs are horses

[@Ghorda9]

and horse powered automation like mills.

[@Oscillascape]

Mounted riding is coming in the next update! We will see if it's any good though.

[@bighaverlegend33]

Is this and Avengers reference?

[@Oscillascape]

No it is not:)

[@fictitiousnightmares]

Minecraft has chisel & bits mod. Even better than VS chiseling. I have over 200 hours in VS, have done many runs, and it's great and all, but it is lacking a lot of things. I always end up getting to a point where I just look around and say 'now what?' Basically, I accomplished everything I want at that point and, like you said, there is no real endgame options. No real block variations, mods are limited, hard to acquire building materials, etc. Basically, once you survive, there isn't much available to explore, play with, experiment, or be creative like there is in Minecraft.

[@Oscillascape]

Yes Minecraft is definitely deeper and with a lot more content, plus the mod library is infinite with some bananas mods. I do feel like the vintage story is just starting out. It's getting a big boost in popularity. So we are just now hitting the critical mass. It's going to be real good in a few years with more content and more mods.

[@fictitiousnightmares]

@@Oscillascape I hope it does get even better, but honestly, it has a 'mod' group of programmers writing it (i.e. a total of like 5 people, 2 of which are programmers) compared to a multi-trillion dollar company's resources for Minecraft. I have no doubt it will get even better, but I will be dead by the time it becomes anything to compete with Minecraft. I am already in my 50's, so I mean that literally. :P

[@kidtea]

200 Days!!!

[@Oscillascape]

I will be doing 200 days at some point but not in this world. I have a plan for permanent long-term world to keep working on.

[@nathanburgett1599]

Better jonas devices.

[@Oscillascape]

Agreed. There is a lot of unexplored potential with Jonas tech.

[@nathanburgett1599]

@@Oscillascape yeah I was surprised there wasn't more Jonas mods. That one is the only real one I could find. Waitimg and hoping it gets an update, its not working right now.

[@simple_classic]

Please do not compare VS to MC, everything from the philosophy to the code is so different it doesn't make sense. Additionally, VS is still "early access" technically

[@Oscillascape]

Why not? There is nothing wrong with comparison. That is how innovation in the video game genre transpires. Plus MC is the most adjacent game to VS. Comparison is inevitable and I would say prudent. Doesn't mean you need to copy everything from Minecraft, but pretending it doesn't exist is also silly.

[@6515cg]

I liked it!

[@Oscillascape]

Glad to hear! I genuinely like talking about my favorite game now.

[@Anon1gh3]

what was the song used about 3 minutes in?

[@Oscillascape]

It's my own. I can give you a link for download if you care. All the music in the video is my mine.

[@Anon1gh3]

@@Oscillascape Yes plz good work :D

[@Oscillascape]

@@Anon1gh3 I am trying to figure out a way to DM you the link. Any suggestions?

[@Anon1gh3]

@@Oscillascape I don't think you can outside of putting it in the description or naming the song title and platform so I can find it. KZbin for ya.

[@Anon1gh3]

​@@Oscillascape If you sort the comments by newest first and navigate back to the thread, it can show hidden comments. That might work for links idk. Or it might just be auto deleted.

[@grandfremdling3841]

You asked, if this type of video is something I like, and my humble opinion is: no, not really.

[@Oscillascape]

Is there something particular you didn't like?

[@Eranderil]

My PRE-ALPHA game ISN'T FINISHED!1!!! Use your head man. This ain't minecraft. If you're looking for minecraft... go play minecraft? You even comment that much of your endgame gripes are discussed in the roadmap. Some automation I think is valid, eventually. NPCs taking on some tasks IS a good suggestion. Multiblock mobile machines also promise some potential means of automation. Leather armor DOESN'T slow you, and gamboised is barely noticable. Minecraft is the "instant gratification simulator" whereas Vintage Story is "work for it and you'll find satisfaction." Admittedly, it can become somewhat plodding at times.

[@Oscillascape]

You might want to look up definition of an alpha my man. This game isn't pre anything, it is in an early access state. Also I find it interesting that Vintage Story stans really take offense to Minecraft comparison. It's inevitable, just relax. Minecraft has many good ideas even if it's a little bloated and directionless. As a game developer it would behoove me to take good ideas from genre adjacent games. I have nothing against vintage story as a whole. Just throwing out some ideas I would personally like to see. It's like just an opinion man 😂

[@Eranderil]

@@Oscillascape Do you know what early access means? Alpha? Beta? In terms of game design. Alpha means you're testing a feature incomplete game. Pre-Alpha is testing a game where even the FRAMEWORKS of features aren't complete. What did they just add? A framework for multi-block mobile creations. Beta means a game is largely feature complete and is generally for stress test and bug removal. Anytime you get "Early Access" you are dealing with an some form of alpha or beta test. If you don't like the game and the direction: consider that it might not be FOR you. I stand by my prior statements. There is a semi-valid argument that Minecraft never left Alpha, as they keep changing it and adding features, though it can also be argued they aren't adding that many new features but expanding on existing one by and large. Adding Content, if you will.

[@Oscillascape]

@@Eranderil Alphas tend to be for internal testing or small scale tests with NDAs. Certainly not paid versions. Pre-alpha? You are most definitely talking internal development only. These new models aren't compatible with the traditional definition of game development. Valheim has been in development for many years and they are still adding new features. Many live service games are constantly adding features as well. Just go to the website and see for yourself what they are calling this. I'll give you a hint, it's not pre-alpha. The roadmap states that full features will probably take a decade or longer to fully implement. Should we then give a game a free pass just because developers are not done adding features or is it free to be criticized and analyzed? I just think it's a cope when you say it's pre-alpha and therefore exempt from discussion.

[@Eranderil]

@@Oscillascape You are free to discuss and criticize, but don't criticize and openly incomplete game for being incomplete, especially when the roadmap highlights that the biggest of the changes you want are under construction or actively being implemented. Also, don't just spread wrong information such as "all armor slows you down." Be willing to accept that maybe the game wasn't designed for your preferences- it might just not be for you. Many people criticized terraria during its dev cycle for many of the same things you are slamming vintage story now. You don't criticize a Fromsoft for being hard. That's part of the deal. Finally: Just because games do not strictly adhere to the traditional dev cycles does not mean those dev cycles have ceased to exist. You are right that Pre, and Alpha used to be entirely internal, but so was Beta testing. A very select few were pulled in on open betas. Now, with the advent of early access, all the stages are much more public, and yes, you pay to be a tester now. Don't like it? Don't participate.

[@mrgerman366]

First, this is only alfa Second, why you need endgame? Maybe try considering vintage story like neverending story...

[@Oscillascape]

Alpha? Do you mean early access? Two different things. This is just my opinion. I am not sure what you mean by never ending story? Like am I suppose to role play in this scenario? I love the game:) I just want it to do better!!

[@jarlboof]

And endgame doesn't mean the game should stop, it can go on forever, it just gives a goal to the player to work for while surviving.

[@lycheemyusic]

automation is boring as shit. sorry.

[@Oscillascape]

Well so is grinding the same materials for thousands of hours.

[@h347h]

Go play minecraft.

[@Oscillascape]

I might just do that. I hear it's a great game. Some will say the greatest of all time:)