NEVER buy a Porsche until you check for this!

‪@euroasianbob9268‬ tells us about a Porsche engine failure lesson he learned the hard way!
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#Porsche #EngineFailure #CarProblems

[@euroasianbob9268]

Thanks again for having me Ed! Reliving this one is painful! Lol.

[@philipglorioso6952]

great relatable content! Thanks for the stories.

[@colinashby3775]

50,000 miles 50,000 spend 40,000 worth 😥😥

[@jamesmisener3006]

Thanks Bob. I've not heard about this yet. Cheers 🇨🇦

[@DGI82]

So funny seeing these cars go up in value when they will all ultimately need a Jake Raby level rebuild eventually to “bulletproof” them

[@josiahhein6036]

I heard it is actually caused by storing the cars for Winter and not driving them.

[@johnkluge3421]

The problems with the M96 engine all relate to the way the engine blocks were cast. There was never anything wrong with the IMS bearing. That people think so is primarily the result of Jack Raby trying to sell his upgraded bearing. I experience what Raby doesn't ever want to talk about; my "upgraded" L&M bearing failed and destroyed the engine in my 02 911 Carrera 4S. When I called LM and ended up speaking to Raby himself via email, LM told me that the problem wasn't their bearing but that it was installed in an engine that didn't meet the tolerances they expected thus causing their bearing to fail. In short, LM claimed it wasn't their bearing's fault. That is all well and good, except that that is exactly what Porsche had been saying since day 1, that the IMS failures were caused by other failures in the engine not due to any flaw in the bearing. In my odyssey of trying to buy a new engine and eventually rebuilding the won that came with the car, I was able to talk to the Porsche factory and get their view on the IMS bearing and the M96 engine, which I think is the correct explanation. The truth behind both the scoring and the IMS is that Porsche had never made cars in the kind of numbers that it did when first the Boxster and then the 996 sold. The engine designs worked perfectly fine on paper. As long as the block was forged to exact specifications, everything is fine. Indeed, there are thousands of these cars out there that have well over a hundred thousand miles on them without any IMS or bore scoring issue. If, however, the block wasn't forged to exact specifications, and since Porsche had never made cars in these numbers before 10 percent or so of the engines are not, problems arose. Specifically, if a block is a bit off and doesn't cool evenly, the difference in temperature on the two sides of the engine and up frying the IMS bearing. As my car will attest, it will do so regardless of whether it is a stock or an "upgraded" bearing. So, installing an upgraded IMS is a fool's errand. Either you have a car that has a well forged block, in which case the IMS is never going to fail, or you don't, in which case the IMS is failing regardless of whether it is a stock or an upgraded one. The same is true of the bore scoring. Yes, there is a correlation between cold whether and bore scoring in that the cars that get it seem to come from cold climates. There are, however, plenty of cars that were driven in cold climates that don't suffer from scoring. Again, if the block and Porsche lining material were forged perfectly, the bore isn't going to score. There are tons of examples of high mileage cars with no scoring that prove this. If, however, it wasn't forged perfectly, it is going to score. It might be that it is more likely to score in a cold climate. So, you might get lucky and have an engine with badly forged cylinder liners and it not matter because you live in a warm climate. That is what is going on here. Porsche had never made engines in the kind of numbers it did for the Boxster and the water cooled 9-11s. So, it wasn't able to forge engine blocks and cylinder liners with the kind of consistency it should have. With regard to the IMS bearing in particular, before the 996, Porsche used an oil fed bearing that was not affected by uneven cooling the way the packed IMS bearing of the M96 engine was. My guess is they had no idea they were having uneven cooling in some of their blocks during the air cooled days because it didn't matter with an oil fed bearing so no one noticed. Interestingly, Porsche finally gave up and went back to the oil fed bearing in the 97.2 generation. As far as buying these cars, my advice is the following. Check the car with a bore scope for any sort of scoring. If it is a high mileage engine and doesn't have any scoring, it is almost certainly not going to get any at this point. If it is a low mileage car, it may or may not get it in the future. As far as the IMS goes, if the engine is high mileage and hasn't ate an IMS bearing, it likely won't in the future. If it is low mileage, there is no way to know. And having an "upgraded bearing" won't save you. What will save you, however, is installing what is known as the "IMS solution" which makes the bearing oil fed and thus renders any uneven cooling between the two cylinder blocks no longer fatal to the bearing or the engine. Don't bother with an upgraded bearing. it won't save you. Install the oil fed system which solves the problem entirely. Every one of these cars probably should have the oil fed modification.

[@Cos27O]

Your explanation makes perfect sense. I have been reading the porsche 911 story by paul frere, and the entire time I have been astounded at what Porsche was able to achieve with the engineering and design of the 911 in period. I then realized the small production numbers the 911 was made in when compared to comparable sports cars of the time, and it made sense. They can charge more and take their time because they're not making as many. It would not surprise me at all, given the state of the company when the 996 was developed and manufactured, that there were serious quality control issues due to the large volumes the cars were made in when compared to previous generations.

[@checkmate1996]

Great response. Should be posted everywhere.

[@MBSLC]

Great information! Before my friend bought the new factory short block, we visited a Porsche specialist in Nashville for advice. He mentioned Jake Raby in our conversation. He had problems with a few Raby engines and could never get in contact with the guy.

[@corey5797]

👏👏👏👏

[@TucsonDude]

Great info, but I'll respectfully disagree about the IMS bearing. I'm absolutely aghast that any manufacturer would install a non-lubed SEALED BEARING inside an engine. It will fail, sooner or later.

[@rickstengard]

True story. My 991.1 got a whole new motor at 18k miles, 15 days before the CPO warranty expired! $38,000 bill covered.

[@alfieboy4022]

Dude same. I had a new shortblock put in TWICE on a 991.1 GTS. Turns out the injectors were a bit clogged which caused uneven spray. However they should’ve replaced the heads too because they had damage it turns out. Ended up sending my engine to Deman Motorsports to do a 4.5 conversion and they found all sorts of fun stuff with it

[@user-tu4jj6gs4p]

Interesting (and nerve-wrecking) to know, considering that I am eyeballing a 991 Turbo in the future. I knew they had fixed the IMS, but bore-scoring still an issue is concerning.

[@windronner1]

@@user-tu4jj6gs4p nope. Defective wiper motor is concerning. Bore scoring on a car of this caliber, from a company with this level racing technology reputation is insane.

[@jonasbaine3538]

@@windronner1 I wouldn’t trust these old Porsche cars but I think the newer ones $$$ are more reliable

[@EarlX99]

@@jonasbaine3538 no they’re not. I’ve had 2 PADM failures within 12 months on my MY21 Spyder!

[@RageUnchained]

Bob: “don’t buy a Porsche” *me who can barely afford the payments and insurance on my shit box Chevy impala* “hmmm interesting I’ll keep that in mind”

[@deborahchesser7375]

No kidding, I’m worried about keeping the lights on so I doubt I’ll have to worry about a Porsche breaking down

[@76slippery]

Got any impala stories?

[@RageUnchained]

@@76slippery one time my battery failed and I couldn’t get the key out of the ignition because the release for the key is an electronically controlled solenoid, any jackass with jumper cables could have stolen my car that night. Also my car is 6 years old and somehow the power steering rack is failing

[@76slippery]

@@RageUnchained sounds right for a gm product. However if it's like a cadillac cts there is hole under a cap looks like a screw head on the steering column, stick a pen in there to release the key.

[@89imp03]

😂😂😂 these impalas are either bulletproof or full of problems. Nothing in-between lol

[@Droopy578]

I’m no Porsche enthusiast but this is great info !! Thanks for all who’ve commented worldwide!! Always a pleasure in watching Euro Asian Bob !!

[@samjohnson2801]

This guy isn't either

[@riskinhos]

he's wrong dude.

[@taylorc2542]

Why won't Porsche do the right thing? Isn't this a class action thing?

[@Ryan66437]

Only on displacements over 2.7l, pre 2009. This is a well known fault. From my research you change out the water thermometer for a new one with a lower temp trigger and this issue shouldn't occur. According to various sources I found when researching these cars this happens because the cylinder walls overheat in parts which weakens the coating. Maybe cold starts exacerbate the issue. Then again I bought a base model cayman with the 2.7l engine because they don't have this problem. So this is all conjecture on my part.

[@justinrobert6573]

It blows up. Period. Porsche engines are junk and I have many.

[@robertedwards6438]

when an engine is rebuilt to fix this problem, the cylinders are drilled out and new sleeves are put in with a better material. poor materials on the original engine is what causes it.

[@theguenterFB]

Kind of right, kind of not.. M96/M97 engines die from too much heat - thats right. But its more like a cracked cyclinderhead what you get from an engine that runs too hot. Changing your thermometer helps keeping the engine a lot cooler when you drive it - but as soon as you are stuck in traffic, the car will overheat exactly as much as it does when you run the OEM thermometer. The more displacement your engine has, the more scoring will accrue. 2,7s are the least likely engines to get the borescoring, 3,8 on Carrera S models are the ones that get it the most. Get your engine checked before you buy a M96/M97 Porsche and do a thermometer swap to the 987S thermometer, change the cooling fluid and tweak the radiatorfans to spin higher BEFORE the engine hit the 102 degree spot :D

[@Ryan66437]

@@theguenterFB Thanks, great to get a knowledgeable response, hadn't heard the bit about the fans before.

[@theguenterFB]

@@Ryan66437 the fans start to spin on the second speed as soon as the watertemp reaches 102-104 degree (from factory). The normal fanspeed is enabled when you use the climatecontrol. Changing to the 987s thermostat helps to keep the temperatures down a bit longer - as I already mentioned - but really getting them down even when you stuck in traffic is only possible with the fan modification. I think you can program them to start spinning on the second speed when the temperature hits 99 degree 😂

[@NickTarterOKC]

I'm here for all the EuroAsian Bob content. He seems like a super chill guy and he's a good storyteller.

[@Big_M_T]

I know, right? Honestly was only planning on watching a few minutes and ended up watching the whole thing! Good stuff!

[@theroadtripchannelrtc3160]

Here in the UK the bore scoring issue is very well documented, and often brought up well before the IMS when buying one. Most of the Gen2 models of the 987/997 cayman/911 are free from these issues.

[@MrMikeT89]

Makes sense, similar climate to the northeast USA if I'm not mistaken. Curious, how often/how much snow do you get?

[@jake78441]

Oh ye bore score so normal on porsches

[@__Ben]

@@MrMikeT89 Depends massively on what part of the country you're in.

[@MrMikeT89]

@@__Ben I was under the impression even southern UK gets some snow

[@Richard_Turner]

@@MrMikeT89 most years usually enough to bring it to a total stop.. so like 1 or 2mm 🤣

[@Tripp426]

I'm very familiar with the IMS issue but I had never heard of the bore scoring before in such detail. Thanks for the very valuable info, Bob!

[@hobear637]

I bought a 997.1 carrera S. Get a bore scope and oil analysis as part of the PPI, a good shop will remove the oil pan and do a thorough scoping from the bottom of the bores, costs an extra $500 but worth the investment. Ticking, smoke at start up, soot on the left exhaust are tell tale signs but you can still have scoring without any of these symptoms. The value of these vehicles have gone up considerably, wait lists for rebuilds are even longer since a rebuild makes more financial sense now. For cold climate cars, make sure you warm up the car by driving it right away and not letting it idle, just be sure not to take it past 3k rpm. Once it’s warmed up (190 is ideal) then you can flog on it.

[@creativegiacomo]

excellent info.

[@johnwayne2103]

Interesting, I Always thought the opposite, you started the car and let it warm up before you drove it.

[@christopherkraft1327]

Bob is a great guy, his stories are always good!!! 👍

[@klaspeppar5619]

I really like these Euro Asian Bob stories, keep them up.

[@duckduckdiecast3324]

Wow, thats great to know. Thanks for the great info EuroAsianBob!

[@alanwayte432]

The reality is bore score is a very small percentage, I have had three 997s absolutely no issues

[@kondor99999]

That’s like saying cancer from radiation exposure isn’t a big deal because there’s only a 10% lifetime risk. It’s a big deal when it happens to YOU.

[@cascade_Luke]

My 997.2 Targa 4S had 3 engines by 65k miles before I sold. Newer 9A1 engine. Understand the truth.

[@henryatkinson1479]

Its actually pretty well documented on 996 and 997 boards like Rennlist. The cold-start and idle warm-up leading to scoring is well-known and has been for at least 5 years at this point. Also, its not a guarantee. My 996 spent almost 20 years in MN (did 105k miles there, now in CA) shows 0 signs of scoring. Also if you have a 996 and the engine craps out (be it IMS or this), its probably no more expensive to modify the chassis and harness to fit a GT3 engine in. At least 2 996s over on Rennlist have had that done now.

[@DasCayman]

130,000 miles on my 997.1 C2S. Only issue is having to check engine oil level once a month and adding a bit more as it burns it off.

[@Alex-fe5fz]

You got bore score then

[@DasCayman]

It was a bad AOS@@Alex-fe5fz

[@thumbgas888]

​@@Alex-fe5fzyes but he have enjoyed his car for 130k miles and still going

[@mbryson2899]

Thank you for the head'-up. I appreciate that this channel includes those.

[@garysimpson3900]

Greetings from England. The leading Porsche M96/7 engine repair garage over here is Hartech. They say it is not a case of "If" your engine will bore score but "when". Like the IMS, bore score is a design flaw issue mainly occurring on cylinders 5 & 6 due to inadequate cooling. By the time the water in the jacket gets to the second bank of cylinders it has already absorbed excess heat. So much heat is generated that the viscosity of the oil between piston & cylinder wall is inadequate. Friction between piston ring & cylinder wall cause pieces of silicate in the Lokosil cylinder coating can become loose, break off & become trapped between piston ring & cylinder wall. This then scrapes further pieces of silicate off the coating causing further damage. I purchased a 997 3.6 new in 2005 when of course IMS & bore scoring was not public knowledge. When it later emerged, I was constantly in fear of major repair bills that I no longer enjoyed the car & sold it.

[@ExtraLargeRecords]

We lost my wife’s 996.2 Cab to this and she was less than thrilled when it literally became a paperweight on wheels.

[@slickar2752]

Thanks for the cold weather insight.

[@ozarkliving7263]

Great info, appreciate you sharing.

[@finnianfitzsimons623]

Would love to see a video talking about repainting cars and some tips for getting cars painted

[@bendowns5737]

Thank you! Been looking at Porsches lately. Now I know better!

[@Donkey2454]

I had this similar issue in a 2002 WRX. I believe it was because of the previous owner(first owner) not letting the engine warm up properly before driving it hard.

[@cesar-lf1jw]

No way really I just bought a 2002 wex

[@feddy11100]

please do more vids like this. what are the most common issues on some of these super cars?

[@mattharvey78]

You rock Bob! I was thinking of getting one of these. Now no more!

[@herrfinke1]

Go for it! Live it up! LOL

[@russell11fitzgerald]

The locker seal freezes in cold climates breaking it down making it easier for the piston rings to wear it out the weight of the piston on the bottom of the boar combined with the coldstart is what is causing it like a seal does not perform a negative temperatures

[@jsquared1013]

There is nothing to do with a "seal", he's mispronouncing the "Sil" in NikaSil / AluSil / LokaSil coatings. The "-sil" part is for the silicon.

[@ashleybarham8518]

Very well known in the UK, wheeler dealers even did an episode were they drop a 3.8 and have it rebuilt with the better coating and bearings.

[@Palvader]

As someone who sold a B7 Audi S4, I got used to the constant barrage of people asking if the timing chains on the 4.2 V8 were done. Fortunately, I had just done them shortly before the sale:)

[@MBSLC]

Factory improved M96 short blocks still available from Porsche $15,000 with $4,000 core. A friend just bought one. Don't forget about cracked heads that leak coolant into the crankcase. And the plastic chain guides that disintegrate and the pieces end up in the oil filter and everywhere else. It was the first time the Porsche dealer here in Nashville had ever ordered a factory short block. Get yours before they're gone.

[@michaelf.2449]

Nashville represent!

[@MBSLC]

@@michaelf.2449 yeah Michael!

[@THEFUNNYfilms]

Contact Spragens Law in Nashville, they do class action lemon law cases.

[@michaelf.2449]

@@THEFUNNYfilms this wouldn't fall under lemon law at all. Best option is some kind of negligence or unjust enrichment type claim

[@THEFUNNYfilms]

They do class action consumer protection cases. My wife is an attorney I just watch car videos.

[@gregwebb3094]

Thanks for the tip/advice was looking for a Porsche.

[@rob_in_sv]

Great insight! Thank you.

[@osgeld]

that's actually very good information as I start looking for my first entry level porsche

[@willrayment9544]

My friend had this problem.. sold it on with known fault. Very sad. Beautiful car.

[@mikemartenson4357]

I have a Cayman S 3.4 987.1 no problems, so far. I did become a PCA member and schooled myself on their videos on this subject, I suggest this in the due diligence as well as a PPI. The type of oil and gas you use and proper start up procedure are explained in detail.

[@terrymontoya8581]

Thank you, great info

[@robinoconnor1203]

GT3 and Turbo have a different, they use the Mezger engine which does not suffer from Bore Score or IMS/RMS problems. Gen 1 997 cars appear to suffer more Bore score issues than the 996 cars, less cooling area I believe, which leads to overheating. Do not rev the engine until its fully warmed through.

[@warrenlucier5796]

They changed the piston skirt coating, due to the former coating being outlawed, and the mix for the Lokasil sleeves that are cast into the case halves; that's why the problem became even worse. The 9A1 replaced the M96, M97 & the Mezger with a total new design I refer to as Mezger Junior.

[@Gozar111]

Very interesting that it occurs in cold climates. Hope you get a good 997 soon. It really is a great Porsche.

[@michaell397]

Especially as Germany is a cold climate country! GRRRRR!!! + Burrrr!!!!

[@TheYjmfan]

I have a 2002 Boxster 2.7 92k mileage runs beautiful never had a problem with it.

[@fam0]

Wow unbelievable, thanks for the information 👍

[@gsxrdoug7521]

Thank you for making me more informed.

[@machspeed420]

I have a 997.1 C4S that I have been daily driving for the most part for 3 years now. It has been trouble free, and is a blast to drive. While there are documented issues like this, they are generally rare occurrences. These cars need to be warmed up for 15 to 20 mins before driving hard. Oil also needs to be changed frequently. If you find a well cared for example, you will not have any problems.

[@augustsawzak5401]

Porsche didn't help the issue by recommending 15k oil changes lol

[@windronner1]

Another great Euro-Bob story. I was first made aware on ‘wheeler dealers’ over a year ago. I actually worked my way through college as a Porsche tech with a ton of bmw experience and hundred years ago on all the pre 3ltr’s. Between the timing chains on specific bmw’s. The IMS bearings and now this scoring. My faith in specific models and years for German cars is crap. LoL

[@herrfinke1]

Right! Imagine if GM had these problems with their Corvette!? I don't think people would put up with it as do German car fans do. It's because they're so damn pretty!..?

[@user-od9iz9cv1w]

What a great heads up from Bob.

[@Shadow0fd3ath24]

The IMS is so easy to fix and cheap that its insane...people have just hyped it up and instantly bought the $1200+ LNE setup and that they think thats the norm. I did mine for under $450 including ceramic bearing, gaskets, and oil change. The bearing is under $115 online and is a STANDARD size bearing(96- early 01 is a 5204 2rs, mid 01-05 is a 6204 2rs) just gotta make sure its a steel cage

[@005AGIMA]

easy on a 986/996. Impossible on the 987/997.1 without tearing down the whole engine. Porsche: It's not really a problem. Also Porsche: yeah we deleted the IMS from the .2.....no reason.

[@DonziGT230]

Being that it's the bottom of the cylinders and related to cold weather I'm guessing the cause is unburnt gas washing the oil off on cold starts. Another possibility is water condensation from short trips. Maybe both?

[@GodSpeed3]

Thank you for this helpful Information .

[@lukespence1330]

Love this kind of content!!

[@dannymac6368]

Thank goodness I went for the 991.1. Had a 997.2 C2S lined up but let it go despite a great price on a wonderfully optioned car. 100,003 miles on the 3.4L 9A1 and it’s been amazing.

[@jibmaster]

You do know the DFI 9A1 engine is in the 997.2 AND the 991.1 correct? Alusil cylinder liners are used in these 9A1's and has proven more reliable. I have an 09' C4S with 158K. Uses a qt every 4-5K (which is hardly anything). Oil changed every 5K Mobile one. I feel like the lower mileage cars should be concerning rather than a high mileage examples with good service histories. 991.1 is a beautiful car. Congrats. Buying any Porsche at an auction is a huge gamble! Know your seller! PPI folks!!

[@dannymac6368]

@@jibmaster I didn’t realize it already switched over by the 997.2! That’s awesome and thank you! Congrats on yours as well, I’m a huge fan! 100% agree with high mileage not being a concern on these 9A1 motors, I’ve never been more confident in a powerplant before. Come to think of it, haven’t heard many horror stories concerning the low mileage ones in particular, either!

[@thedukeofwales]

This guy had me all worried that my Porsche is a ticking time bomb until he finally mentioned that it doesn’t effect the Turbo models

[@Emira_75]

Cool story bro

[@thedukeofwales]

@@Emira_75 you sound poor

[@hockey4life4560]

It is known in the Porsche community now that proper warm-up is a MUST for that generation of engine. Running the engine cold absolute kills the motor.

[@fiily1]

d-chunking, destroyed bores/engines, ims bearing destruction. My advice to you, 2009 997.2 + up porsche 911's , that is it, otherwise, you pay $18k sooner or later for a rebuilt engine, or ls swap.

[@dominickdolio2414]

I know all about the bearing. Had a 911 I tried to sell for a year and everyone vanished when I had no paperwork to back it up, as would I. THIS issue… much worse.

[@joshlovescars5372]

Love bobs story’s!

[@sprintermaximus]

I am a victim of this as well on my 996 C2. I had failure at 113k. I bought a warm weather motor with 39k on the clock from a reputable gearbox shop and swapped it in. I only use 15w50 Mobil1, not the watery 0w40 stuff. The car is considered a vintage car, by Porsche, and the 15w50 is recommended oil by them as well. But, cars kept garaged, warmed correctly, etc., should last a long time. My bro had a similar car that went 167k before being totaled by a deer. Regardless, bore scoring is a major issue, and more important than the 5-8% failures by IMS. In my opinion. Interesting episode as well. The people that offload cars with these issues knowingly need to be karma'd.

[@greg12m3]

15w50 is way to heavy on the cold side.

[@sprintermaximus]

@@greg12m3 It can be, if you are starting in zero degree. Which, I would think most people including myself, do not. So 15w is perfect if starting the car in a garage with some level of heat. Shouldn't be an issue. Ever. My tyres are not even rated for less than 40° anyway. Welp, this conversation could go on for ages.

[@MiguelGarcia-vj7oo]

Yea technically anything over 20 years is considered vintage.

[@kimthomas3005]

So this commonly talked about in Porsche community, and advice is always get a boroscope done before buying. This will likely be a bigger issue than IMS, seams to affect mostly lower mileage cars that are not used much particularly later M96 engined cars with bigger capacities, the smaller capacity cars have less lateral forces involved and less likely to suffer, also early ones if survived I believe have nikasil liners (if survived as they stopped using as the high sulphur content in cheap petrol in late 90s early 2000s destroyed them all) which dont wear as much. Ticking is sometimes AOS failure which is relatively cheap to fix. Avoid leaving your Porsche to idle to warm up better to drive but keep to low revs til warm and use regularly to avoid this, garage queens beware!

[@robertperillo8738]

The crazy thing is these cars just continue to appreciate at a rapid rate. Even 996’s are way way up.

[@RuggedIrish]

Dutch tulips.

[@robertperillo8738]

@@RuggedIrish I hope you’re right because I want one but I dont think so, 964s and 993s never went down once they started appreciating.

[@RuggedIrish]

@@robertperillo8738 Right or wrong, I certainly want one less now. I expected more quality control from such a high end manufacturer. Whether the tulips come down or not I'm now even more so inclined to convince myself of the beauty of mums.

[@MiguelGarcia-vj7oo]

@@robertperillo8738 no offense can you really afford the maintenance cost of an air-cooled 911? I've heard of engine rebuilds going going north of 30k....... If you gonna buy a 911 assuming your a true driver enthusiast, air-cooled are gods chariots.........

[@MiguelGarcia-vj7oo]

@@RuggedIrish I find all this interesting since modern Porsche reliability has been compared to Lexus and Toyota. They've been ranked 3 at consumer report for years now..... Also the 911 has the highest percentage of vehicles still on the road then any other model car.

[@SpeedyTubaGuy]

I was looking into buying a 955 Cayenne and I heard the same thing, the V6 and the turbo V8s have the nikaseal coating on them, but not the standard V8, which causes a lot of problems especially if you live in cold climates

[@maxwellsimard4135]

Bore scoring is not an underplayed or unrecognized problem in the community. Mostly affected 997.1 with the M96 and M97 engines. The 997.2 introduced in 2009 with the 9A1 DFI engine is known to be generally immune to bore scoring. If he was knowledgeable he would have pointed out this distinction. That is one of the big reasons the 997.2s have increased in value disproportionately faster than the very similar 997.1.

[@johnkluge3421]

The 997.2 also went back to an oil fed IMS bearing.

[@maxwellsimard4135]

@@johnkluge3421 the 997.2 has no IMS bearing at all.

[@johnkluge3421]

@@maxwellsimard4135 No. It has an oil fed one.

[@johnyaskoveakarpaccio4737]

***KUDOS AND A HUGE THANK YOU! TO THIS MAN FOR POSTING AND THIS INFORMATION***

[@pauljoyquilter359]

I think that Hartech in the UK have done the most extensive research into this subject. You can request their whitepaper which is extremely detailed and informative. They explain why the Nikasil and the later options to harden the cylinders are different and what mods they do in order to fix the issue.

[@joeym2675]

Great info for future Porsche Buyers! Not my first choice anyways but they are Beautiful Cars!!!

[@mronetwo0386]

Fantastic information for someone who is in the market for a 997/996

[@situationalawarenes]

Cold weather start means rich mixture which is washing away the oil film on the lower cylinder wall

[@terrylessmann2274]

My 08 Cayman S Sport is coming back today or tom from engine rebuild due to bore scoring (been gone for 11 mo). It was my winter car (my 08 Boxster S Limited Edition is my summer car) and summer show car. When I was working, I'd drive 9 mi to work, no issues. When I retired, my trips were short commutes for groceries or to family. Developed bore scoring. Lots of cold starts in the cold means more fuel to warm up, which washes the lokasil off the cyl linings. Supposedly S models are more prone to BS than base models. The 9A1 engine is not immune to BS as some say, just ask Jake Raby. Looking forward to having my car back again. Should be a real hot rod now and all the faults from Porsche have been addressed.

[@molskimauler]

Thank you Bob.

[@superameric8]

Not a Porsche fan but this was great Ed! Super great info. Plus it sure beats a video of blowing up a Lambo.

[@420BudNuggets]

How can you not be a fan of Porsche??

[@superameric8]

@@420BudNuggets I was till I owned a panamera turbo.

[@RyanRoadReaper]

@@420BudNuggets they're OK cars, but overpriced for what they are. Not to mention the extremely annoying community that worships the 911 as hard as 12yr olds worship the Nissan GTR, lol

[@420BudNuggets]

@@RyanRoadReaper hahah that gtr comment was spot on. But have you driven a Porsche??

[@RyanRoadReaper]

@@420BudNuggets I've driven a 986 Boxster S. It felt just how I would expect a rear engined Miata would feel on some good coilovers, if they made them. I've also been a passenger on a 996 Turbo. Cool car, but I wouldn't pay 50k for one of them.

[@Llamacowking99]

Great info, should be interesting seeing how much this saves people or not.

[@vamosaltemacongabrielmende3965]

Thanks for the advice, I was thinking about buying one but now I’ll be more careful

[@garywilloughby6893]

997 Bore score cold climate kills..lock-a seal..

[@peepeepoopoo5858]

I had a 2006 Cayman in South Texas that I drove to bore scoring failure at 130k miles. So the climate definitely doesn’t effect the two dissimilar metals 😂

[@dimiturmihailov8670]

Finally someone said it-IMS is a problem for Porsche BUT not huge.From all cars the % of really failed is very little.

[@jamespisano1164]

Thanks for that. Fascinating and alarming.

[@pktesq]

oh ya - cylinder 6 bore scoring in 05 997.1 C2S resulted in check engine light at 95K miles. Considered boaring out to 4.0L but it was too badly scored. The rebuilt engine was expensive and difficult to get due to Singer. It was about a year between detecting the problem and having the engine replaced.

[@markk3453]

good info. thanks

[@markanderson2451]

Everything you ever wanted to know about bore scoring and the 996/997/986/987 911/Boxster/Caymans is here on a great video by the Porsche Club North America : kzbin.info/www/bejne/eGinmYCOepmgZ6s

[@Raynl1978]

When I worked at the dealership, I noticed cold climate Cayenne and Panameras with the v8 and 1 991 had oil pressure control valves leeching oil into the wiring harness. Talked to techs down south who had never seen that happen

[@rabk5702]

Love Bob's story's he's had it all happen to him 🤠👍

[@1dariansdad]

The guy has been through more cars than I have wives, and that's a lot.

[@funfun5656]

I actually loved the fried egg headlights. It doesn't look quite as good with the orange bits but redone with clear side markers and retrofitted with projectors they make the car look like the GT racecar.

[@edventures9884]

I really want a 996, starting to love the headlights now because it’s unique but prices keep going up… hopefully I can snatch one up soon

[@herrfinke1]

I bought one in May 0f 2020 and sold it in July of 2021 (after a loud, nasty cold start up that never returned, but I was scared). I paid 20K US $ and sold for 18K 1999 Silver/Black C2 Coupe with 63K miles when I sold it and 59K miles when I bought it. I think the prices will come back to what I paid in 2020 in a year or so. Good luck hunting!

[@cptbuiltk7944]

I love when people say they aren't a retail buyer get bent over by the shop later

[@Engineerd3d]

Allot of the "coated" cylinder cars have this issue from late 90s to very late 2ks. Even nikasil coated cars are starting to show this issue. Including the famous m113 engines from the other Stutgard manufacturer. One more interesting tibit. Allot of those Stutgard cars have Chinese made chains and guides that may or may not be of the proper alloy.

[@doctorhickz1400]

Thank you. You saved me alot of money.

[@mak23997]

Remember, doesn't affect the turbos and GT's. Thankfully they used the nikasail.

[@herrfinke1]

The 1 percenters thank you.. LOL

[@takashiessex116]

I bought a 986 with rod bearing failure that the seller did not previously disclose. Sucks! Lol. I’m still not sure what my true plan will be when it fails, as it will be about a $20,000 repair, but having the most fun with it now while it lasts!

[@groznoy]

I’m not a car dealer and after spending just a couple of months of reading and tracking prices, I knew about this problem. Hell, i read about the first day I read comments on BaT auction for 997.1. That’s why I got 997.2

[@Ryansrangereport]

The 2006 2.7L has NO bore scoring and almost zero percent IMS failure.

[@Flies2FLL]

1. IMS bearing failure occurs on approximately 9% of M96 series engines. 2. Bore scoring on the later 9A1 engine is extremely rare, but it has occured when the engine is run hard while cold. That is most likely the cause of bore scoring on the M96. I've never bought a car without driving it first and I doubt I ever will. Great video!

[@ashleybudgen740]

9A1 3.8 is a gem, but yea part of the problem is people see the water up to temp and assume the car is good to go, it takes nearly 3 times as long for the oil to get up to temp and many ignore that

[@TucsonDude]

IMS bearing is still a ticking time bomb, tho. I'm absolutely aghast that any manufacturer would install a non-lubed SEALED BEARING inside an engine. It will fail, sooner or later.

[@Flies2FLL]

@@ashleybudgen740 Precisely!

[@westrx7]

Been there, done that. 2007 Cayman S (987, 3.4L) in the Puget Sound of the Pacific NW. Hardly a cold weather climate.

[@tripprogers4814]

Monday morning at EuroAsian Motors “hey Bob there’s a guy named Ferdinand on line 2 holding for you…”

[@michaelschultz1104]

It is very much the hot topic of discussion on the 996 & 997 generations.

[@joef2593]

I got burned the EXACT same way man...only lost 2k but it was about a year nightmare working with a mechanic, calling junkyards, engine rebuilders, it was a nightmare. I was so happy to be done with it. Honestly if you can afford it I would recommend an engine swap to Honda or something similar, spice it up with some goodies and a nice exhaust system. it will be 1000x more reliable.

[@jmblur]

Bore scoring fear is why I passed on a 23k Cabrio 996 last year. Canada car. All this info is out there already. Maybe more wide dispersion will bring the values down to earth again though!

[@davidtrust8274]

It's still a relatively small percentage of affected vehicles and they tend to be C4S driven in Northrrn climates (as C2S are mostly summer-only cars there). Also, it's the warm-up cycle (particularly impacting #6 cylinder) in conjunction with cold start which is why a low temp thermostat might help mitigate. Fuel mixing with oil in cars running too rich (all climates) can erode the lokasil liner which is why frequent oil changes help mitigate too. Bottom line the 997.1 3.8L is still a magnificent car and these risks can easily be mitigated.

[@dd-oq7jm]

Just another fan boy trying to down play the issue. Porsche fucked up plain and simple, to have engine failure due to living in a colder climate is unacceptable.

[@davidtrust8274]

@@dd-oq7jm lol...very intelligent reply...name calling and foul language.

[@dd-oq7jm]

@@davidtrust8274 its 2022 not 1960, harden the fuck up

[@chesspiece81]

Thank God here in the south cold is considered 30° and it only gets that cold for maybe a week. Below that maybe once or twice a year.

[@Moto_Medics]

Bore score and 6cyl ago, our fore fathers dreamt of p cars without knowledge of their shortcomings.

[@augustsawzak5401]

I bought a 997 carrera s with 125,000 miles on it, and had a compression and leakdown test done on it. It came back with numbers better than factory spec, so hopefully I should be good for a good number of years with good maintenance.

[@henryatkinson1479]

Still do a borescope if you ever have the oilpan or plugs out.

[@augustsawzak5401]

@@henryatkinson1479 I would think the leakdown and compression test would be more sensitive, no?

[@henryatkinson1479]

@@augustsawzak5401 Borescope tells you more than the condition of the cylinder walls. Carbon buildup, oil slude (if seen from pan side) etc are all important too.

[@augustsawzak5401]

@@henryatkinson1479Interesting, thanks

[@ohmyggg]

@@augustsawzak5401 apparently leak down and compression tests are not good ways of testing for bore scoring as they can provide false negatives. Best way would be to scope your cylinders from either the oil pan or spark plugs. Rennvision (Jake Raby of Flat6) has plenty of in depth videos on the topic, and specifically why leak down and compression tests are not a good test method.

[@wkeithtexas]

Excellent information. Auctioned 997s have Vegas odds on winning

[@964cuplove]

I bought a 964 cup car early enough and still have it 👍

[@moneymoney733]

He's on point with everything. Including, the climate point..another thing he could of added was,short trips. Those cars don't like short trips. 2 issues...for starters when starting the car,it is recommended to drive off immediately and keep the revs under 3k RPMs. Secondly,those cars have to be at full operating temperature before driving them like a Porsche. If you,let your car warm up then gasses get stuck and are never expelled unless driven for at least 20 minutes. If you start it and drive off and go over 3k revs...you have a higher chance of developing bore scoring. They are still awesome cars,you just have to plan before your drive. This is not a "im gonna go get a snack from the gas station type of car" unless,you're willing to go to one thats 20 minutes away. One downside to buying warmer climate cars....there is chance they got flooded by a storm or just rain/convertibles. If you keep these in a garage then it's a win.

[@rationalthinker9181]

Also the temperature is oil temp which takes 10 min to 15 min to reach optimum temp the water temp quick And where I live I have never seen less than 17 degrees on my oil so start real slow before you hammer the car