Viral Layoffs: A Digital Dilemma at Cloudflare

Welcome to another enlightening episode of The Business Lunch! Today, we're diving into a topic that's as timely as it is challenging - layoffs in the digital age.
We kick off with a gripping story that many of you might have caught on TikTok and Instagram. Remember the viral incident where a Cloudflare employee recorded their layoff? It's a scenario that
opens up a myriad of questions and discussions.
From there, we explore the nuances of layoffs - the do's, the don'ts, and everything in between. We discuss the emotional rollercoaster that the employee went through, and the importance of how companies should manage these delicate situations.
We delve into the legalities and future implications of recording such a sensitive moment. Is it a step towards transparency or a breach of privacy? We also offer some solid advice for companies on how to handle these tough decisions with grace and empathy.
Our conversation is not just about the challenges, though. We focus on the importance of clear communication, constructive feedback, and the vital role of performance metrics in sales roles.
To wrap up, we share some thoughtful insights on the role of a proper firing process and its impact on the overall health of an organization. Because, at the end of the day, it's all about maintaining a healthy work environment, even in the face of tough decisions.
Join us for this insightful journey as we untangle the complexities of layoffs and learn how to navigate these situations with knowledge and compassion. Hit play and let's get started!
Highlights:
“I'm a big believer that if somebody is getting fired, there should be no surprise.”
"The supervisor needs to have the training to be able to give constructive feedback which includes criticism."
"What will make you great at hiring is getting good at firing. It sucks but it's a critical aspect of the role."
Timestamps:
*01:15* The TikTok Video
*02:35* The Firing Conversation
*04:07* The Response and Virality
*05:58* Issues with the Firing Process
*07:25* HR's Role in Firing
*08:53* Recording and Legal Implications
*09:46* Reasons for Firing
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Roland Frasier is co-founder and principal of three current Inc. Magazine fastest-growing companies and he has founded, scaled, or sold 24 different 7 to 9 figure businesses ranging from consumer products to industrial machine manufacturing companies with adjusted sales ranging from $3 million to $337 million.
Currently growing Scalable.co, DigitalMarketer.com, RivalBrands.com, and Plattr.com while advising over 150 other companies on digitally-centric customer acquisition, activation, referral, retention, and revenue strategies and plan implementation.
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[@snapfires5127]

Roland, it is double edge sword for employee, if she did not record this then public would not know about it and at the same time person like you would never hire someone like her. There is cost to doing the right thing, we like to see people with backbone but at the same time if they stand up with backbone to you then everything changes. Its a conundrum that society grapples with.

[@RolandFrasierEPIC]

That is true. I think the challenge is how you approach it. Recording anyone without their knowledge feels wrong to me. She could have told them she was recording the conversation, and I think she may have been legally required to do that as well, but she did not do that. The company clearly was tone deaf to employee feelings and providing them both with more notice and more feedback and process. So, in this case, it feels like the only people who behaved fairly to the others were the unfortunate “corporate drones” who were tasked with executing a flawed company policy. That is, they did the job of completing the firings and they did not expose the company to legal liability in the process, even though it would have been nice if they could have done that with more empathy or less corporate-speak.

[@kimplummer2672]

i live in Texas. it is a "right to work" state. that means that employers can fire you without telling you why. i've been fired a couple of times, and they never told me why. i've been working as a contractor in IT for 15 years now. a couple of times i've been laid off with no explanation and never saw it coming. it is awful to not get an explanation.

[@RolandFrasierEPIC]

Agree totally on that Kim. The way the law is it kind of stinks because the employee doesn’t get any info or closure and the employer is not happy either because they don’t get to provide help or information or a reason, but the way the law is these days it just creates liability for the employer to give a reason so they don’t. It’s a lose/lose situation.

[@wandaferrer6527]

Those two people did not explain anything. On bonding took 3 months. There were two holidays in which she had 3 weeks' worth of work. One of the sales did not go through and she was working on the other two when this issue of firing went through. She was not the only one. this is a case of a company overestimating their headcount needs.

[@wandaferrer6527]

She recorded herself because she knew that others were fired the same way. It is clear that you guys did not listen to the whole exchange, please watch it in full and think what would happen if she did not. She is protecting herself from any incorrect recounting of the events by the company.

[@harrylane2699]

Your arguments make no sense and it's clear that you didn't do any research of the situation before your filmed this video. 1) "HR had to be vague in order to not be legally liable." No. if the issue was not performance-related, they could have simply said that the lay-off was for "strategic reasons". If it WAS performance related, she should have already been informed by her manager so she could have actually been able to make changes to improve her work. A company owes solid feedback to new employees!! Her manager should have been present in this conversation or HR should at least have had her numbers and targets so that they could objectively tell that she hadn't met her target. 2) "She should have sold in the 3 months that she was at Cloudflare". No. The average sales cycle (ever heard of the concept?) at Cloudflare is more than 3 months. Hell, at my company it is even 9 months. The idea that an AE should have to close deals within 3 months, especially in a holiday season when they've just joined the company, makes no sense. 3) "She can't be trusted as an employee because she recorded the conversation and shared it." No. It is a logical reason to record a stressful conversation of something as impactful as a layoff. You may need to remember the details about the next steps of your leaving the company, and why not record that? The fact that you think reflects badly on her that she shared it, makes me think that you have done zero research on Cloudflare. Already 6 months before this happened, Cloudflare's CEO was in the news for making disparaging comments about ALL the sales people working there. There were already many stories about the company having a toxic culture. Cloudflare's hiring process is a 8 interview-long gruelling process. It requires a LOT more investment than the average tech interview. Cloudflare has admitted themselves that they make this process so hard because once you join the company, they want you to STAY there for a long time. Yet they fire sales people after only 3 months in the company and don't even give them the feedback to improve themselves! Brittany Pietsch has done everyone a massive favour by exposing their terrible practices for all the world to see. Many already knew or suspected it, but this will help job-searching tech sales people to carefully consider whether they want Cloudflare as an employer.

[@Hammerhead1986]

You're fired! But we can't tell you why ....because because! If a company doesn't have the decency to give you a reason for being let go, then you shouldn't need to give them a reason for recording a conversation. Respect is a two way street.

[@swedysweden]

Ryan’s face was so still at the start I thought for a sec it was just a profile picture and he was doing audio lol

[@RolandFrasierEPIC]

Haha!

[@Ealendir]

I love how psychology graduates working in HR give their opinion about the labor market in which they are basically the clowns and about which they know absolutely nothing. Claudflare was doing mass layoffs and lying to her. The point is that it should be illegal to make mass layoffs and blame the workers. In many countries in fact it is and it can cost a company a lot of money in damages. Those in HR should know this and stop talking nonsense.

[@apierre6]

1. She's a mid-market account executive selling expensive computer software. The sales cycle for these types of products are typically months, not weeks so I wouldn't hold it against her that she hasn't made any sales in a short amount of time (especially considering she was just coming out of Thanksgiving and Christmas when a lot of people aren't in the office). 2. They say that she isn't being laid off, she's being fired for performance yet couldn't supply a single performance indicator or piece of negative feedback she's received. Cloudflare handled the situation as poorly as possible

[@nexusgiga]

she was on a 3 month ramp. and wasnt selling during december.. which in tech is completely normal

[@wandaferrer6527]

Read the comments and you might to get an insight

[@melli-yelli]

Along with issue that it was unethical for her to video the meeting and publicly release it, we didn’t also get videos of her manager telling her she was doing a great job. Could be true or not true.

[@RolandFrasierEPIC]

For sure Marianne!

[@yungifez]

I clicked because of the cloudfare and not cloudflare in the thumbnail