What Makes A Good VR Game?

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0:00 Intro
0:18 Hand Interaction
4:20 Weapon Handling
12:00 Healing
12:50 Melee
14:25 Inventory

[@virtualinsider]

These videos are funded by the community. If you want to support the channel consider subscribing to my Patreon or becoming a youtube member for as little as $1 per month. Thankyou for your support Patreon - www.patreon.com/VirtualInsider KZbin Membership - kzbin.info/door/JFSq0-05sUbvgJYV8biODgjoin Discord - discord.gg/BBj5zMsHrs

[@deepoi5754]

Okk

[@pluviarium]

I find it interesting how 'VR game design' is in essence just trying to figure out how to make the basics of the game like movement and weapons satisfying to use. It's like the VR equivalent of someone comparing early NES games and how they control and play. I really wanna see what cool stuff games will come up with once we've reached a baseline for all the basics.

[@virtualinsider]

I agree, seems we still havent reached a baseline yet which is sad to see after so many years

[@maxxbmd]

@@virtualinsider I'm just glad most games have agreed upon movement inputs (left stick is teleport or locomotion, right stick is snap turn or smooth turn, etc). But yeah, having a baseline would help a lot. Imagine if you could start up a Unity game project with Stress Level Zero's Marrow 1 system already built in.

[@EQOAnostalgia]

F'ing amazing right!? I was a kid playing Atari and NES and you're absolutely spot on. This is the new frontier baby!

[@davidchandler5432]

"Into the Radius" has my favorite VR inventory system by far, I love the backpack and how you can organize it however you like, and the weapon/item slots around our torso and waist. And if ya don't keep the backpack organized, you can get yourself in trouble in a tense situation. I also love the ammo and magazines system in that game, the way everything is physicalized and you gotta load up each magazine and can't just reach somewhere and grab more ammo out of thin air, it feels a lot more immersive to me. It might not work for every game, but that level of detail and interaction goes a long way in VR for me.

[@RealSharpenIron]

Realistic ammo system never gets old, the freedom of placement makes you think tactically how you want to approach a firefight, few games out there that have tried this.

[@mars5train601]

As a fellow radius player, the solution to backpack management is simple. Just put the junk in one corner, and hope to God you don't need something from in there. But yep, between finding and loading ammo, and organising my stuff back at base, the game is a lot better than a lot of other vr I played, and actually got me scared when I was starting out

[@threemooseqateers9689]

AB Aeterno is a game that does the same thing but with collision. I adore ITR but I have to admit AB is very very promising. With collision, it feels like resident evil in 3d and it’s great.

[@davidchandler5432]

@@threemooseqateers9689 Yeah, Ab Aeterno looks great! I follow that dude's KZbin channel to keep up with the progress of the development. I hope it turns out great, everything I've seen from it looks awesome.

[@robrobusa]

Yeah! I would love to see another (maybe optional) backpack system in that game, where you have different sized of backpack, but with in-backpack item collisions, like in Ghosts of Tabor, but keeping the floating backpack intact.

[@Dogtorbox]

The amount of effort you put into your videos is amazing! I do hope devs use this as a basis for all their games

[@kevinle1083]

I’m planning on becoming a future VR dev and I will watch this video as references on what works and what doesn’t.

[@chtulie]

The ammount of options, customisations thereof and accessebility options of H3VR is amazing. It even has, once you get used to it, the best version of a native to vr locomotion system (armswinger) that makes over vr games movement feel like wii ports of other console shooters used to felt like: offhand stick movement, dominant hand motion control aiming.

[@abeidiot]

I wish it became more of a game

[@Rockethead293]

Agreed. I love it so much

[@JohnSmith-ib2zk]

Great to see you got your channel back really broke my heart to see your channel get hacked sucks when they target small dedicated channels

[@carlbolam2274]

@@zucczucc2775 Hacked? Didnt he upload a fully edited video why he was changing direction?

[@RealSharpenIron]

Into the Radius has the best solution for inventory management with its freeform backpack design IMHO

[@KayoMichiels]

The backpack system in Into The Radius is just brilliant, just place the item in your backpack and it will float in it, you yourself are in charge of keeping inventory clean, so when a tense moment arise... you better have some extra ammo ready or some healing injectors.

[@ilfoxyy]

Not lying, seeing the notification put a smile on my face! You're one of the most underrated youtubers I've watched in a while. Your voice is so relaxing btw

[@Goobagoo]

Yah I'm going to miss his content after what happened.

[@shlup6239]

incredible how you never brought up into the radius, i feel like its probably the best feeling vr game right now

[@priscillaquinn9505]

Im incredibly suprised into the radius wasnt mentioned.. for instance i far prefer into the radius's backpack and storage compared to saints and sinners. Its becoming one of those top tier games up there with half life, boneworks and saints n sinners

[@GreyMatterShades]

Great video. I'm immediately going to check out the other two videos you mentioned. While I haven't played it, the backpack in Into The Radius looks like an amazing evolution to that of Saints and Sinners. It's a volume of space that you actually place items within, rather than a slot based traditional inventory that happens to be mapped to a backpack like Saints and Sinners.

[@Demmrir]

Fun fact: After the Fall's shotgun didn't used to lock the pump when it was loaded. I posted about it a bunch on the forums, submitted a bug report, and pointed out REAL shotguns lock when pumped. Eventually they fixed it and it went from almost unusable to my favorite weapon--then they modified it to give it a ridiculous amount of kick during which pumping/firing is disabled and it sucks again. They've also yet to fix the ammo for it. Holds 6 rounds whether or not you've pumped one from the tube into the chamber or not rather than the 5+1 a shotgun like that should hold.

[@subv24]

underrated vr content creator

[@priscillaquinn9505]

This is a good video dude. U should give it more time. You make really good vr videos

[@jarcha444z4]

agreed

[@inoob26]

I wish there are more VR games like Alyx

[@spaceghostcqc2137]

I've heard RE8 vr comes close

[@tehgehrmanwalf9765]

One thing i love about bonelab and boneworks is that even though you have guns and they're far mor effective the devs still let you use them as a melee weapon and interact with the environment. Using the stock or side of my rifle, or my pistol to hit an enemy if I'm out of ammo or they're too close, or using the barrel of a shotgun to push open the door to a room before you walk in.

[@Brujah1988]

Dear god! What a relief man, I was so excited to learn you were keeping this channel as a VR enthusiast kind of thing! Even if you decide to have it as a side channel and upload every now and then when you have time for it, there is many of us that will still like, share and comment. Wish you the best of luck!

[@deanc91]

Tactical Assault VR recently came out and I think really pushes forward "realistic" shooter inventory interaction with customizable pouch placement instead of an ammo pool grab bag, and interacting with weapon attachments. One thing that needs to be also considered is how to handle 3 point of contact weapons (simulated stocks). They vary from no simulated shoulder contact to absurd magnetism to the shoulder. Also grip angle, especially with the various controllers out there. Holding a 1911 with a grip angle steeper than a glocks in Alyx really threw my mind for a loop. That should be an included option in most games, to control gun positioning, weapon angle especially. I think hl2 vr and tactical Assault have those options

[@beardordie5308]

Just wanted to chime in that I've watched this vid a few times and saved it for reference. It's an outstanding analysis, great format, and I really agree with your preferences when mentioned as well. 👍

[@relivoaddad]

As a developer myself, I very much enjoy these videos will all the nitty gritty in depth considerations. Well done!

[@PixelShade]

This is such a good video! it's kind of crazy how much additional detail "interactions" VR games "enjoys". Just by trying things out in Half Life Alyx, I am mesmerized of how much effort is put into even the smallest of things, like how your hand-gun acts when you move it across an obstacle. How the controller vibrates at impact and continues to vibrate as the gun scrapes across the surface. The gun doesn't follow the controller, the hand does, and the angle of the hand tilts the gun so that it naturally slides it across the the obstacle, then once your hand/gun is across the obstacle it tilts to the normal direction... It's crazy, even if your hands angle doesn't correspond exactly to the angle in-game, it still looks and feels EXTREMELY convincing. I thought there would be a much larger disconnect. I guess our brain fills in the gaps and is convinced about what are eyes experience in the VR world.

[@Bruno-fu4hm]

Videos like this are gold to me as someone who wants to get into VR game development! Thank you so much!

[@Anon_2_1]

Welcome back bro! Already missed you in the VR youtube even tho it was only few days

[@exot1ccoconut]

COMPOUND VR has reloads and guns feel really well and satisfying to use. and probably one of the best arcade shooters out there

[@datechnoman2]

Going to miss these kinds of content.

[@GenesisAria]

One thing you don't see enough, is having a raycast for each finger to determine it's curl amount to dynamically wrap around an object. This way you could grab anything from anywhere and the hands will always contact the object.

[@malcolmlee5499]

@10:21 Went through the hand motions, joke checks out 🤣

[@WOF000]

The quality of your vids is impeccable

[@bobsaget8604]

a very well done video nice job man

[@UzuSoap]

One of my biggest issues, is games that allow dual wielding, but to keep up the realistic military shooter, refuse to let you reload with like, bump your chest with the gun or whatever some games have as simple reload, to reload them, so you spray for 1 and a half second, then crouch behind a rock to drop one gun, reload, pick up other gun, reload, zero caliber is the biggest perpetrator of this, dual wielding mac's that don't last a single skirmish, opting to just toss both for a higher mag capacity rifle

[@gennoveus]

Glad to hear you are back! I've resubscribed.

[@virtualinsider]

Awesome! Thank you!

[@saulgoodman5148]

I actually really like when the magazine just moves from your hand into the gun by itself like in bonelab rather than your hand moving with it. it doesn't feel weird and i can just act out my hand moving it into the gun, which feels great. especially with modded weapons that alter the magazine grip.

[@OllieMendes]

Resident Evil 4 VR is my favorite. You can drop your weapons but don't have to pick them back up as they just go back to your holster. It feels really cool to run out of ammo in your shotgun, keep your left hand on the pump, then pull out your pistol with your free hand. I hate the "sticky" weapons like Alyx does it.

[@cryax3447]

Agree, I have tried alot of different VR games but RE4 VR is still my all time favorite, wish more people would talk about it.

[@celerun]

I just dusted off my index after having it in the closet for a bit over a year. I then spent most of the day browsing steam for "what I missed" and it saddens me to say I missed absolutely nothing. There is NOTHING _new_ . There is, however, 10.000 new games with neon letters as title that looks like their thumbnail was created in paintshop pro and by an indie dev who clearly spent not more than an hour on his bloatware until shipping it off to steam with a 14.99 pricetag. It's really sad, VR had so much potential but unless the triple A studios bring something to the table, it will be dead for me for good. Great points in your video, too bad no dev cares about them.

[@ThisMrMister]

Blade and Sorcery being literally perfect in this context.

[@shardovl586]

You had to remind us of Hitman three, what a horrible mess. A year later and they still haven't fixed it, I think they have just dumped support for VR, they obviously hired someone in house who was a novice, and had a small budget. A game I think has great melee fight mechanics is Vader immortal they have really nailed the feel of dueling.

[@realMenta]

I really like how Into the radius handle guns and inventory. Feels nice

[@DaKaiserr]

A game that does basically all of this right is, in my opinion, into the radius. Eating and healing is awesome, gun play is extremely cool with the reloading and jamming of the guns, melee is also pretty ok, but its just so cool

[@eggchucker1]

Personally I really like how weapons work in into the radius.

[@jackgamer6307]

H3VR, while hiding your hands, still has the best gun handling I've experienced

[@ashb899]

As a indie vr developer your videos are really good to "take on board". For example the ammo reloading of how you hold the clip and insert into the gun I also like/agree with and have implemented. This video tho, you have spent quite a bit of time covering topics you have already gone into depth before (guns) which you didn't need to here. For your next video, more design stuff would be great such as inventory management, enemies and what I am working on now (level design) and how best to engage the player physically.

[@its_alex1621]

great video again 👍

[@onerimeuse]

The simple fact that vr is new and no one has everything figured out down to a formula is actually what got me so addicted to it when I first tried the oculus. It felt like the old days where developers had to do newt tricks to squeak out performance and do experiments in game play mechanics. And maybe it's just me, but I find it wonderful.

[@timewaster504]

H3vr has mastered guns

[@subcio6811]

i woud include into the radius for inventory and interesting gunplay

[@VanzantCL]

The inventory in Into the radius is the best imo, i hated the one in Saints and sinners

[@ronm6585]

Thanks. 👍🏻👍🏻

[@GraveUypo]

beards that are visible in first person. that's what VR games need the most.

[@valker6870]

Something I would add to this list is how the scopes in sniper elite vr work. After playing that I always see the difference when I’m playing other vr shooters.

[@Robotic-toxic]

I realy love the saints and sinners with the weight of all the weapons to the stamina mechanic we should reference to that game a lot more

[@infiniteblink]

This is how u move VR forward. No more rehashed hardware. More innovative software. We need to clearly identify what does and doesnt work in VR. Thanku for making this video...

[@viperbuzzard01h84]

i love walking dead saints and sinners! its pretty fun and i had a lot of intense moments especially when reloading shotguns while zombies are stumbling towards me, its the first vr game i played where stamina matters more than just running, the weapons have weight so i cant just wave my hand around to kill enemies i have to work for it.

[@batyr123_]

this one is really underrated

[@tariqrahim223]

I'm surprised you didn't mention into the radius' inventory system

[@SirPonnd]

Resident Evil 4 on the Quest 2 has some of the best feeling guns in my opinion. Handling and reloading them is as satisfying as Half-Life Alyx, but it uses holsters instead of a weapon wheel (optionally). Overall, I think RE4 VR is one of the most polished VR games out there, but people rarely seem to talk about it.

[@TheRyman230]

It would be interesting game to implement the jankiness of the hand teleporting to things into a story. Similar to blade and sorcery’s telekinesis magic. But your hands/head are telekinetic. Though I can’t imagine this would be a good game since I can’t think of a motion sick-friendly way to implement the ability to throw your body parts around. Unless maybe you can have an optional camera where your eyes are, and when you remove your head, you automatically use a janky-feeling floating camera where your head is.

[@seebarry4068]

I never noticed my hand wasn’t there in super hot. Good design that.

[@Fresh_YT]

The way the Walking Dead saints and sinners does its gun play is so good. All the guns literally have weight to them which is an important thing for an immersing experience. Aiming felt natural and made me feel like I was holding a real gun

[@ronmka8931]

manual loading guns like the bolt action rifle was an absolute mess, it sagged and swayed far too much that I felt like my character was drunk

[@Fresh_YT]

@@ronmka8931 that's because the bolt action is terrible in pretty much all situations

[@ronmka8931]

@@Fresh_YT nah just the 2 handed weapons sway so much and the bolt action mechanism being so janky. it seems pretty obvious that the game was half baked like so many vr titles

[@Fresh_YT]

@@ronmka8931 I use the pump action shotgun as my main weapon I have 0 problems with it... Except reloading it

[@Fresh_YT]

@@ronmka8931 what headset do you use

[@nibbler2281]

For me, Pavlov is still the best feeling gun game

[@DirtyAyrab]

Have you played Into the Radius VR, honestly I think it is one of the best video games, and I was surprised that it wasn't in this video. i do believe you will enjoy it if you are a fan of imersion

[@EQOAnostalgia]

Imo, solid interactivity without stressing realism in every aspect. Boneworks frustrated me immediately with how you get hung up on things. It just felt like an overly long tech-demo and i genuinely don't get the hype around that game. Weapons systems etc... sure, fine. Everything else i hated lol. Now Into The Radius... NOW THAT is a kick ass VR game!

[@FiliusFidelis]

Didn't know that about the half life syringes, that you can inject anything on your body, I ALWAYS jabbed myself in the hand.

[@mizuchi-6137]

While gameplay is certainly HUGE, animation really needs to start being a bigger factor in development.

[@EnnyBennyM]

3:28 Yeah same with me except with 115.2

[@zwapz]

More devs should just copy alyx, it works so nice. And it's a real joy to play it like that.

[@EnricoPiazza]

The only mechanics and aspects that HL Alyx does better than any other VR games are graphics and physics. Everything else is either done better in other games or very specific to the kind of game HL Alyx is (things that would not work at all in other games). For example the inventory and weapons. In HL:A you are limited to 4 weapons, you can not pick or drop guns at will. You can only store ammo and resin in the "backpack", you can only retrieve ammo from the backpack storage, and you can not store partially used magazines. It's extremly limited. It works in HL:A but it would not work in other types of games.

[@BaseRealityVR]

Its Been too long! And your thoughts on VR interactions is like my own, I'm currently re-working My own VR weapon systems after losing all my progress in an HDD issue: ( But I finally managed to get to the hand poses stage and Now my guns are feeling better than ever, and I have a universal ammo bag system to complement them. Doing hand poses correctly on a full skeletal character IS HARD!, Not so much for floating hands, that's kinda easy, I also released a VR Inventory system for VR devs to use Not sure if you missed it, But I tried to cover as many systems as I could. I Find your opinions to be extremely helpful to confirm my own, So if you ever want to try Alpha versions of my stuff let me know.

[@tompive6535]

Biggest thing that affects my vr gaming is weapon handling. Basically if game forces you to hold weapon in certain hand it makes it unplayable for me. Im both handed and i use pistols with my right hand and two handed guns with left hand. Its just so much better if game lets you just pick up gun with hand that you want to use like in real life. Half life alyx was ok because all weapons are pistols but in vertigo 2 demo i just got stuck because i cant load shotgun righthanded...

[@hisdarkestfear]

And then there's reloading in H3VR 💀I appreciate having to do all the work in H3, operating safety, stocks, firing modes, bullet management, etc, but the fact that you have to look at a gun to reliably reload, and that some like the P90 are a glitchfest because there's no guide breaks immersion every time

[@TheBaldrickk]

With 99% of H3 weapons you don't need to look. You just have to get used to the feel of where it goes. The P90 and the G11 are pretty much the only exceptions. You can do them smoothly, but especially with the P90 you run into collision issues. With that said, there's an option to make magazines non physical (easy mag reloading) so that they can clip into place within the gun. You also get the same effect when holstered.

[@hisdarkestfear]

@@TheBaldrickk Yo, thanks for the tips!

[@Raceworm3]

On the healing part you wrote after the fall even though the game was hl alyx

[@jason002YT]

This video could help game development, bravo! Half Life Alyx was amazingly designed!

[@flob666]

10:20 yes, loading shotgun shells one by one as fast as possible looks... odd, and you might get weird looks.

[@18nakedcowboys69]

This channel is exactly what I want out of VR content creators. PSVR2 is going to be a fundamental shift in the industry. The people who tried PSVR the first time around are going get blown away at how impressive VR is and can be. As well as the possibility of getting high budget high quality VR games again which has been missing.

[@arcticfox037]

I'm surprised H3VR wasn't mentioned at all!

[@Callsign_Kuru]

4:44 me and my friends always call it the ass slot or the prison slot

[@Meep-lm2jk]

OK WE GET IT YOU LIKE HALF LIFE ALYX Na but it all seriousness this is a great video good job

[@HappyMan0203]

I find it disappointing that "Hot Dogs, Horseshoes, & Hand Grenades" never was mentioned in this video, especially in the gun interactions and inventory section. In terms of gun interactions, H3VR is second to none really, from reloading to recoil, etc. No game comes close to simulation all the small details of firearms such as fire-selectors, cocking and decocking hammers, individual bullet and shell interaction, etc. When it comes to inventory, H3 also does it very well, with multiple types of storage systems you can select from. It provides a lot of flexibility in what a player prefers.

[@Agent_Matt_6]

I feel like this was a missed opportunity to go over the handling in maybe some Oculus games but with gun handling, especially H3VR

[@KOTKCereal-1jhkjhjkhjkh]

I noticed that he has a Glock 17? (Maybe I'm not sure) in gunman contracts what mod is that?

[@holdinweight]

AB Aeterno had promise but it looks semi abandoned now.

[@Ihatesirgoogoo]

I’m still trying to find a vr game I will never quit playing but my attention span is weird and always need mods unless the game is insanely interesting

[@squashyboy2997]

welcome back king. maybe try a different title for the video like “Why VR feels fake” or “This is why VR will never feel real” something that more mainstream audiences will be able to resonate with. It sounds a little click bait but thats kinda how youtube works now ever since the mrbeast incident. Also maybe change the thumbnail to match if you do. Since the current title is really hard for anyone to click on even for vr enthusiasts. Maybe even a title like “the current state of vr immersion” could work! I love your content so it sad to see you give up on something you were passionate about. I would say if you were to go back try other content again, maybe do it on a second channel! The algorithm doesn’t like it when you shift content genre so drastically :/ There were other comments on your other videos which mention that you should do breakdowns of other games as well which expands your reach outside vr and also allows a wider audience to discover you. I think your detailed analysis and explanations of vr games are great, and it will definitely work on other games and their breakdowns. I would say youre doing fine and probably would just have to refine some titles to garner the views of the more mainstream audience. other than that, glad to see you back😊

[@windowone]

2:51 so you don't like something but if you turn it off then it makes you confused... So its doing its job?

[@tobiasweber2517]

oh there is definatly a wrong way to do vr melee combat, although i havent seen it be done in a while. im talking about skyrims vr: flayling a weightless swords that has no collisions kinda combat... it sucks

[@OctaviusGeorge]

You guys think that all that will change with super precise gloves?

[@metalgearherald8159]

i cannot believe that h3vr was never mentioned

[@specterman603]

have u ever thought about making a vr game? i think youll do good

[@zionre4925]

At 12:04 the text on the top left doesn't change to "Half-Life: Alyx", idk what you're going to do with this information, enjoy it ig lol.

[@echo6248]

Why isnt bonelab or boneworks featured during the weapon segment?

[@virtualinsider]

Because as I mentioned in the video I have a 19 minute video just dedicated to guns in Virtual Reality so didnt want to go over every game in detail. More of an overview of how VR games handle guns

[@KarinExMachina]

What makes me a good VR game? Well if I were a bad VR game I wouldn't be sitting here discussing it with ya now would I? :DemoVRman

[@josephkeen7224]

I personally care more about game difficulty over immersive interaction. Look at Boneworks for example, the fake nails the interactions, but I found the game boring as sin because of how stupid the enemies are. I have the same enemy issue with any physics based melees combat game. Sure some games can still be fun despite being easy (Little Nightmares is a perfect example), but for the most part I need a challenge in order to enjoy a game.

[@DeimosPC]

I hate to be a fan boy but Half-Life: Alyx truly is the perfect game. I can't say a single bad thing about it.

[@tortaeater77]

Gorilla tag needa take notes

[@michaels.1964]

Didnt mention H3vr?

[@retropulse03]

Hitman is simultaneously one of my all time favorite series (and has been since the original in 19999) and also my most hated VR experience of all time. I was so massively disappointed with their VR implementation that it's hard to put to words.

[@tetsu4114]

what about bone lab

[@tetsu4114]

nvm

[@AriinPHD]

i disagree. the hl2 pistol sound squishy and light; plastic. the alyx pistol sounds really good! like a real pistol

[@AmelpsXett]

eye tracking

[@hawhaw1239]

Hi

[@universebow]

👋 hii

[@n9ne]

i couldn't play saints and sinners my knuckles controllers kept picking up random objects or my weapons. i can tell it's a good game but i can't play it cause of this lmao. someone tell me how to fix this issue lol i can't find anything on the internet. half life 2 vr has the same issue it's super annoying man. i honestly just want to play vr games with head motion and mouse and keyboard to be honest i really don't give two sh*ts about motion controls anymore it's just too much. just give me a normal game with vr support and throw the motion controls in the garbage.