Visualizing Brightline West in Cajon Pass

[@cocoacrispy7802]

Nice! Now, could you add some interior shots of relaxed passengers chatting over drinks in the bar car while the freeway is clogged with stop-n-go traffic?

[@LucidStew]

I actually can. The kitbash I'm using currently is interior capable. I will continue iterating and making these more sophisticated as I learn and improve. I've used Unreal Engine before, but its been a little while and I'm super rusty. Correcting the freeway and putting "moving" cars on it is a goal. PARTY CAR animations MIGHT be a little further off. :)

[@GulmoharBloom]

My boy is COOKING with the animation!

[@LucidStew]

It'll get better. This is just me figuring things out :)

[@brycestewart7228]

This is awesome. Best surprise to wake up too. This is going to spoil us so badly 😂. Keep up the great work.

[@LucidStew]

Thanks, glad you like it. I'm going to have some good stuff to show once I can figure out more efficient ways of building structures, cleaning up the 2D messiness, and also building more than a mile a day. :)

[@brycestewart7228]

@@LucidStew take your time. It's a process but definitely a nice surprise. Once you get a good rhythm Going. I'm sure you'll be pumping out some even better videos. Maybe be able to 3d multiple concepts and go back and redo old videos with the 3d modeling/overlay but for now with your first video using it, it was epic

[@LucidStew]

@@brycestewart7228 I probably won't be doing that just because trying to match viewpoints is pretty difficult. I do anticipate getting efficiency to the point where I can show about 20-25 miles of a given route in a 12-15 minute presentation with a weeks production time. I'm planning on having a series for that with minimal amounts of other graphics and VO. I'll also be working some of these visualizations into future city pair and FRA HSR corridor videos, mostly in place of similar flyovers that I currently do with Google Earth Studio minus the track and train.

[@brycestewart7228]

@@LucidStew looking forward to it regardless. You got this. Rooting for you. This Channel is quickly becoming a favorite of mine

[@gregvassilakos]

I had wondered about this. I-15 through Cajon Pass has a maximum grade of 6%, which is unheard of for rail. The nearby Santa Fe has a maximum grade of 3% for the track along the original route and 2.2% for the Sullivan's Curve route. The 3% grade is used mainly for downhill trains. California High Speed Rail's design standards call for the maximum grade to be limited to 1.25% where practicable. Exceptions are allowed up to 2.5% for a 10 km segment or 3.5% for a 6 km segment.

[@Ven100]

6% grade will be cake work for passenger rolling stock like the Siemens Velaro.

[@LucidStew]

Not only is there a max grade of 6%, but they'll be above 4% for about 2/3 the distance of the pass. The 30% design technical drawings do not indicate that they will attempt to smooth this. The trains are light, have a lot of power and traction and maybe won't have an issue carrying momentum through? One question for me is if they would be able to accelerate through a grade like 6%. Also braking on the way down. Top speed isn't so much an issue as the freeway constrains things to 75-90mph with curves. The CAHSR design standards are on the conservative side. German ICE trains run 4% in service. All that said, it's pretty interesting to see how it will all wok out.

[@Ven100]

@@LucidStew From the Siemens Velaro brochure PDF "Velaro is not phased by low adhesive coefficients and can take gradients as steep as 40‰ in its stride"

[@davidjackson7281]

@@Ven10040%? A typo? Really? Easy braking too.

[@ottoros]

@@davidjackson7281 40‰ = 4%

[@eyezak_m]

This is gonna be so much fun to railfan when it's done!

[@LucidStew]

The pass in particular will be ridiculous with this on top of everything else. I can think of a few other spots like the pretty tall viaduct through Barstow, Hallorin Grade down into Baker, Valley Wells rest area, coming out of Mountain Pass by the Ivanpah solar plants, the dry lake beds when they're not dry, through state line with the roller coaster running...

[@eyezak_m]

@@LucidStew Ivanpah in particular will be one of my favorites

[@LucidStew]

@@eyezak_m lot of interesting opportunities out there, like when the wind cars get going on the dry lake bed, or the mirror effect when the lake floods all the way to the interstate.

[@MrGoodnplenty1957]

I traveled this route too many times. nice visuals.

[@ratedpz]

nice animation, I notice the display board said hesperia, so good work on the details!

[@LucidStew]

This was actually from an Hesperia train package. j/k :)

[@weenisw]

That train is moving so fast that the cars look stationary! :P

[@LucidStew]

must be an optical illusion...

[@ericsimandl3998]

They've started pulling core samples on I-15 In Nevada form the state line north. First sign of actual activity. No ceremonial groundbreaking yet though.

[@LucidStew]

Probably going to be 5-6 months on breaking ground in the right of way. They may start earlier on the station properties. Sounds like they'll be busy in the I-15 right of way in Nevada for the next month doing the prep work, though.

[@dvderek]

Holy crap u managed to improve this so much for the NEC vid

[@SoCalHighIron]

Boy, I'll tell ya hwat... I can't wait to start seeing construction updates for this project!

[@LucidStew]

I haven't seen any activity yet at the station sites from space. They are doing surveying and geotechnical work in the ROW in Nevada as we speak and will continue to for the next month.

[@SoCalHighIron]

@LucidStew I know I'll have to be patient. Fortunately, we also have the new testing of the Avelia Liberty units on the NEC to look forward to. :)

[@af8312]

wait will this line be single tracked? median looks too small for double track, that'll kill the capacity.

[@bjturon]

Will be alternating single-double track, single-track with long double-track segments to facilitate opposing meets at speed.

[@LucidStew]

When initially built, it will mostly be single-tracked, including this section. There will be double tracking at and near the stations. There will also be a few double-tracked passing areas between Victor Valley and Las Vegas. They plan to expand double-tracking significantly when they switch from 1 hour to 30 minute headways when demand is sufficient. Their current plan for that is 11 years after start of revenue operations.

[@bjturon]

Very Good! Can't wait to see it on the TV News! :D

[@LucidStew]

Gotta fix it up a little more, but yeah I could see it! :) I think if I could manage to utilize the sound file, the freeway were fixed with moving cars, little better lighting it would be totally presentable.

[@yizhouwang3645]

Always wondering whether it would go overcapacity since single track HSR doesn’t seem ideal for capacity issue. I envision they should prepare their platforms for 16 car trains one day to tackle the potential overcapacity here

[@yizhouwang3645]

Let’s be realistic, 16 car train every hour is just like a one lane Highway.

[@yizhouwang3645]

Also chances are that frequency cannot go more than that since stopping every twenty minutes is usually the closest you can get on a HSR. Is there any place where they’re double tracked tho? I’m so worried about the capacity issue.

[@LucidStew]

They're going to run 7 car consists like in the video, however they will also couple 2 trains to deal with capacity, like on Fridays. They also have plans to double-track the majority of the route when they switch to half hour headways. However, most of the pass will remain single track.

[@LucidStew]

Double-track will be at and within a couple of miles of stations(Rancho, Hesperia, Victor Valley, Las Vegas). That's 3 areas in 49 miles for the Rancho to VV part. The 169 mile part between VV and LV will have several double-tracked passing areas. Initially they're planning 1 hour headways and 2h10m each way, so there should be no more than 6 trains on tracks at any time on the entire 218 mile length of the route.

[@yizhouwang3645]

@@LucidStew thanks for that! However I do wonder how would they actually double track it since it seems that there’s no space for that. I-15 Highway medium seems not wide enough for a Significant of its part, they’re also not trying to build viaducts. Or will they acquire more land?

[@Jdespa1-l6p]

When is brightline starting construction?

[@LucidStew]

Nothing concrete yet, but you're probably looking at around June-August.

[@chuli66zx]

Great videos and awesome animation! I remember in the CHSR LA-SD video, you mentioned a potential tunnel plugging Brightline West into the section. Do you plan on doing a video about it? I wonder if it would be possible to do a junction - similar to the Fretin Triangle linking the French LGV Nord to the Belgian HSL 1, the HSL 1 to the Channel Tunnel, and the Channel Tunnel to the LGV Nord - so that there's direct service from Vegas to LA, SD to Vegas, and LA to SD.

[@LucidStew]

That is currently planned by sbcta as a slow speed autonomous road vehicle people mover. I think if they ever linked the two routes with rail it would be above ground at relatively slow speed. Since the BLW platform will be elevated, they'd likely stay above ground and transition to a storm drainage canal that leads to the airport and UP right of way that CAHSR would likely use there. That would be about 4 miles in length. That would potentially get you from Las Vegas to L.A. in 2h40m and L.V. to San Diego in about 3 hours, which is pretty good. I'll likely do a video about THAT at some point.

[@chuli66zx]

@@LucidStew Thank you! That would be so cool.

[@gregvassilakos]

The video shows a single-track line through Cajon Pass. My understanding is that most of Brightline West will be single-track. Where will passing tracks be located? My understanding is that California High Speed Rail will be all double-track.

[@LucidStew]

BLW double-tracking/passing will be at and around the stations, and there will be a few passing areas between Victor Valley and Las Vegas. Enough to facilitate their initial 1 hour headways. They plan to expand to 30 minute headways at some point. The double-tracking would expand dramatically to facilitate that, but some areas would still be single-track, like through most of Barstow and most of Cajon Pass. CAHSR is planned double-tracked the entire distance and four-tracked at the stations.

[@RobertKriletich]

Try the old abandoned line Into Vegas from Los Angeles

[@gregory596]

I like how the train is moving and the cars are stopped. I can't say accurate this is for that section of road. I know it would be very realistic for I-4 from Orlando to Tampa.

[@LucidStew]

I plan to fix this and have them going 30mph. :D

[@colbystearns5066]

It's pretty accurate for this section of road, especially during the holidays. Some of the worst traffic I've experienced in the region.

[@jmegp]

Thought it was going to be double track all the way.. This will cause issues in the long run.

[@Ven100]

Computer modeling will easily keep trains from being delayed on single track portions. Spain has also implemented single track HSR installation previously.

[@LucidStew]

No, as far as I know they do not ever plan to double-track the entire length. Initially they will have enough double-track to facilitate stations and their 1 hour headways.

[@epicsnake21]

Super cool!

[@LucidStew]

This is just a taste. I've gotten way better already. :) Hopefully I can do a 15-20 min video of the best parts of the route, soon.

[@epicsnake21]

Can't wait!

[@TechJolt3d]

I wanna see how good the animations can get

[@LucidStew]

I can guarantee they will improve. Current goals are to clean up the freeway with moving cars and being able to build better structures. I'm currently somewhat limited to close to the ground and need to figure out a way to build aerial structures, but I know it's possible, so that will happen eventually. The train is also interior capable, so I can put cameras in there. This is also a single cam shot. I can add tons of cameras and cuts without much issue.

[@sunahamanagai9039]

Don't they need two tracks??

[@LucidStew]

they do not

[@Atyomommahouse-p2m]

Like in Florida. They will talk about electrification but the cost is enormous. They will run diesel trains. No overheads electrolices will be installed. Look at bright line in Florida. For years all they talked about was the electrification then as soon as they opened they haven’t said a single word about it since.

[@dwc1964]

since Brightline West and CAHSR are working together on trainset acquisition, I think it's fair to expect Brightline West to be fully electrified HSR

[@LucidStew]

It's really not. OCS and power delivery isn't that much more expensive on the same right of way. The expense comes in when you attempt to create a right of way that consistently supports high speed geometry. BLW is not doing this as they will be in the I-15 median nearly the whole way. The environmental assessment is for an electrified train and includes all the systems and facilities to electrify. This project has never been diesel-electric, even going back to DesertXpress.

[@LucidStew]

btw, they're set to start pre-digging post holes for catenary supports in Nevada. Why would they be bothering if they're going to run diesel-electric?

[@LucidStew]

I need to retract this last one on the pre-digging. They are not currently doing this. I misinterpreted an industry term to mean something else. I humbly offer my apologies.

[@letsplaypetrus4802]

Looks really nice, only thing I noticed is when you do the Birdsview Shots it really hard to see the the white/lightgrey train against the grey Highway. Is it possible to use a slightly different model during these Shots with a brighter yellow stripe on the side than the normal one?

[@LucidStew]

Yep. The train has several recoloring options. I was just trying to get a quick approximation of the coloring Brightline West uses in their renders. There will be many improvements coming. This was just a little taste because I felt like it was good enough to show more people where I'm heading.

[@letsplaypetrus4802]

@@LucidStew Of course and I really liked it. I just mentioned it because I didn't see any other comment about it and on an off-chance you didn't realised

[@Brian_rock_railfan]

@lucid stew will make a Visualizing Cascada high speed rail at same point please 🚄🚋

[@LucidStew]

Yeah, should happen. There will probably be a little time between that and the FRA Corridor video.

[@trainworms]

are they not making space for doubling in the future?

[@LucidStew]

Not in this area. There will be room for more double-tracking in various places including most of the right of way between Barstow, CA and Sloan, NV.

[@igbatious]

Is the speed depicted close to accurate?

[@LucidStew]

yes. might be a touch fast.

[@Jdogg4089]

Sweet

[@ChrisJones-gx7fc]

Based on your analysis of these things, how realistic do you think is BLW’s goal of not just completing all the infrastructure in four years but also starting revenue service by then, especially given their interest in doing a joint procurement for trains with CAHSR?

[@LucidStew]

They have a lot to do. I'm not going to assume that I know more than the people that have come up with the plan at Brightline West. So, like CAHSR, I'm going to take their word for it until I see something that indicates otherwise. It seems like a lot for $12B and 4 years from groundbreaking. It also goes beyond just building the thing. The FRA has to sign off on the track testing as well, which could take a while by itself. That's why Brightline to Orlando started a couple months late and they weren't dealing with class 8-9 track or >5% grades. My feeling is overbudget by at least $3B and a couple years late, but I'm happy to be wrong, just like I'd be totally ok with CAHSR turning things around to the point of starting service in 2030.

[@ChrisJones-gx7fc]

@@LucidStew I can definitely see CAHSR and Brightline West both starting operations right around the same time, ideally that’d be Summer 2028 but realistically it’ll likely be 2030. Hopefully both could at least begin testing in Summer 2028.

[@LucidStew]

@@ChrisJones-gx7fc Right now my gut feeling is BLW operating first by about 18 months, but we'll see what the next few years bring.

[@ChrisJones-gx7fc]

@@LucidStew so if CAHSR is December 2030 then BLW June 2029?

[@LucidStew]

@@ChrisJones-gx7fc I'm think more like Summer 2030 for BLW, early 2032 for CAHSR.

[@davidjackson7281]

Did l hear correctly in the media that they are actually going to break ground this month at both ends and take 11k worker years to construct. The same worker years as CAHSR has to date on a its 50% complete 47 mile shorter segment? 100th thumb up.

[@LucidStew]

I haven't heard anything about California. The FSP grant is through NDOT, so I'd assume right of way construction starts there first. Even there, the permitting and funds transfer process will probably take 6 months. They own the sites in Apple Valley, Sloan, and south of Paradise, so there's really nothing stopping them there beyond selling enough bonds. There was recently an article that they would be starting soon on preliminary ROW work, like surveying.

[@colbystearns5066]

A lot of the issues CAHSR have faced is planning out an entirely new right-of-way that never existed before which means having to buy up other people's land, environmental clearances, etc. This one on the other hand is basically just following the Interstate 15 which took care of all of that decades ago.

[@davidjackson7281]

@@colbystearns5066 Very true and BLW will be mostly single track with a lower top speed.

[@brettwilkins6688]

Just a single track!? 😩

[@LucidStew]

In this area of the right of way, yes.

[@eccentrificalchris2706]

I grew up here

[@LucidStew]

In the pass? I used to deliver the L.A. Times out there while I was at CSUSB. :)

[@eccentrificalchris2706]

@@LucidStew Victorville ca

[@LucidStew]

@@eccentrificalchris2706 Oh, can't say I ever delivered a paper there. 😅A friend of mine used to live in Pinon Hills, though!

[@eccentrificalchris2706]

@@LucidStew the high desert area is at the top of the cajon pass Victorville, Hesperia, Apple Valley and Adelanto. It’s pretty much one big city now. Apple valley is where the train station to Vegas will be. The cajon pass is very busy and catches on fire pretty much every year.

[@bobbowie9350]

Seems like its not going to be scenic driving through there.

[@LucidStew]

Should be pretty cool southbound as long as you're not in the fast lane...

[@carlsmith5545]

1rst. Haveing trains on a highway like that is asking for potential disasters! You can't ever have anykind of malfunctions or highway will be affected. 2nd. Trains will have speed stipulations because it's on a highway. I would very much like to see the socalled mighty United States finally wake up and develop in highspeed bullet train technology which is also, (fully electric). I really dont think brightline will be bullet status eventhough they claim it.

[@Ven100]

Can't wait to see a Siemens Velaro aka American Pioneer 220 traversing this. The Velaros can easily handle the gradients and computer modeling will keep trains flowing between the single track and alternating double track portions. Brightline will not be the first to construct single track HSR and can look how Spain did it years ago, and I'm sure nobody here is questioning Spain's high speed rail.

[@davidjackson7281]

Any guesstimate on the time for the about 40 miles from Rancho to Hesperia? Could it average 80 mph or closer to 60 mph?

[@LucidStew]

The time tables in the ea say 22 minutes. That would be about an 80mph average.

[@LucidStew]

I calculated it the way I do to get time estimates in videos. I got 21.5 mins northbound. Slow the first few miles to get into the I - 15 median from Rancho. 125mph 7 miles from Foothill Blvd. to Lytle Creek. Slowing from there to 60mph for a few miles to make the curve into Cajon Pass. Maintaining 60mph up the first grade. Accelerating to 75mph as things level off in the middle(the part in the video) and maintaining 75mph through the rest of the pass. 90mph once out of the pass for a few miles. Slow into the station. Being that we're talking about 30 seconds, this is a very close estimate and I would expect it to go a lot like that.

[@davidjackson7281]

@@LucidStewYou da man. Thanx. Just tangently curious: Diid you happen to feel the recent Lytle Creek (about 4.2) earthquake? Californian know quakes under 5.5 don't cause much damage.

[@LucidStew]

@@davidjackson7281 Yes, but I'm not very close to that area, so I felt it just well enough to know it wasn't a tiny one or close by. I immediately went on the Caltech earthquake map site and filled out my "Did You Feel It?" survey. :D

[@Yvonne-Bella]

If they dont double track this, they'll lose out on a ton of money

[@LucidStew]

This part will not be double-tracked.

[@jumbolarge108]

It’s only going to be single track in the interstate median? 🫤 That’s too bad

[@LucidStew]

In this area, yes.

[@michaeljones7927]

​​@@LucidStewSuccess of Brightline West, resulting in the need to run a lot more trains, will make the addition of a second main track over Cajon Pass an absolute necessity. When that time comes, another rail line can be constructed outside the median, adjacent to the highway. That seems to me far better than widening the median to accommodate a second track. Everyone seems to ignore or minimize how difficult it's going to be to do a major construction project within the very limited confines of the I-15 median, without major interruptions to highway traffic, which can be horrific. Normally, construction of a rail line would be possible by having continuous access from almost all points along the right-of-way, but not when your building in a highway median, as in the case of Brightline West. Interesting enough, Brightline West has not publicly acknowledged the difficulty and cost of using the median of I-15, and no commentators in the commercial media or social media have identified the problems with this approach that Brightline has adopted. But I'm not surprised that outsiders have manifested superficiality in this regard, since they have no technical expertise in design and engineering, and no knowledge of comparative costing. Your graphics in this very short video are excellent. Your channel keeps getting better with each passing month. Your skill, knowledge, and hard work, and your commitment to excellence are quite obvious.

[@LucidStew]

@@michaeljones7927 I've been wondering how they might pull that off, particularly in the more populated areas. There is also the complication of potential simultaneous construction of the Interstate 15 express lanes between where they enter the ROW at 8th St. in R.C. and Duncan Canyon Road where the express lanes end in Fontana. I recall reading somewhere that they might break up the length of the right of way into 5 sectors. Perhaps they will do something like a large staging area in each that has some sort of optimal access to the median and then build out from there, delivering equipment and materials via the parts already worked on/train laid. I'm imagining they will do a lot of overnight work to minimize interaction with traffic. Probably also something like closing lanes near the median, or creating splits like CalTrans has in Hesperia for whatever is being worked on there. You can see that in my Apple Valley to Las Vegas video near the intended Hesperia station site. They also plan to rebuild small portions of one side of the freeway for their tracks from the median to their 2 maintenance facilities, so that may factor in as well. I know they're also planning on hooking into CEMEX tracks near the Victor Valley station. Logical conclusion is that they will convey concrete materials from there. In regards to adding a 2nd track in Cajon Pass, I think the area between SR138 and the summit is most likely. The EA indicates they want to add a second track of 5 miles in the pass to facilitate their headways expansion. They're probably talking about that part. That would leave them with about 10 miles of permanent single track through the area, which sounds manageable with only 10 trains on 218 miles of track at a given time.

[@michaeljones7927]

@@LucidStew My advice to you is to find out everything you can about BW's plans in order to keep your videos fresh and up to date. That means developing a communications channel between yourself and Brightline management in Florida. If I were you, I would seek to curry favor with them in order to get new material for your channel. You should seek to establish a favorable relationship with Mike Reininger, CEO OF Brightline Holdings. That should help to elevate your channel to a level of importance above that of your "competitors". THINK BIG. Make yourself the HSR go to channel. Aim for a huge number of subscribers, comparable to that of CityNerd and RM Transit. You've made excellent progress in the past year, but the opportunities ahead of you are huge. MAKE YOURSELF THE EXPERT ON HIGH SPEED RAIL and your channel the definitive source of information on the Internet.