Viviana and "Bad" Operators | Arknights

[@mochidash]

Im gathering data for a big Arknights Census report, so you should do your duty and fill the form out NOW --> forms.gle/RNbVPoYgbxLPZK7x6

[@flower7671]

submitted my response!

[@liuxingyan7788]

I think this survey can be improved if you asked us why we like those things :D

[@selensewar]

This feels hastly made. You ask us what is our favorite 6* specifically but then provide an option "my favorite is a 5*". The question wasn't "what's your favorite op". Then you ask what was our starting 6* and allow us to pick multiple. Then you ask what is the "best" and "worst" event is without any context to those words. Everyone has their own definition of good and bad, best and worst. Do you mean story-wise? Gameplay-wise? Too easy or too difficult? Too boring with new mechanics, too boring without any new mechanics? Too annoying? These require specifications. Unless you just want the end result without specifications of course, then it's all right.

[@Yoda_UA]

As a loyal Arknights player, i see a survey i do it. Not for orundum but to make game better. Good day to you sir.

[@AtomTomZeitalter]

Man that favourite Skin Line should've been multiple choice - It's hard to decide between Epoque and Bloodline of Combat.

[@threehoo]

i'm glad you at least snuck in vigil slander at the very end

[@adrin181]

the real highlight of the video

[@smile.__]

slander implies it's a falsehood. 😉

[@lebanana151]

​@@smile.__you tell em

[@mochidash]

i had to go full circle

[@KahelRaito]

That is why I love the integrated strategy game mode because I see value in every operator no matter now low tier they are because in the end of the day you can clear anything in arknights just that creativity makes it fun

[@mochidash]

integrated strategy my beloved

[@Zinras]

Vivi's issue is that Arts Guards don't have a real role in the game anymore: There are far better blockers and damage dealers in the Guard category and her arts damage is easily replaced by Casters. That's why a lot of people really hoped she could have a Mudrock-style shield or something, so she wouldn't need backup dancers in the form of healers. Because if you need healers, all the other Guards become relevant too and you could also come up with non-guard combos like Saria + Ceobe (absolutely disgusting with module) to block better and shred better. The easiest way to tell is that no one uses Amiya, who is both the real protagonist of the story and a free 5* Arts Guard that does tons of damage, while able to kill some bosses on skill use thanks to true damage. There are just so many units that can either assassinate/severely injure a boss before a natural 1v1 happens via hot-drop (Texas, Yato, Phantom, Surtr, SA, Eyja, Qiubai) or can slap bosses around through sheer volume of attacks or true damage (Chungus, Hellagur, Kal'tsit). Bonus option goes to Skadi if you bring her backup dancers too. Basically, at this point in the game we don't need another Arts Guard that doesn't bring much new to the table - if Degenbrecher can get various AoE attacks, I don't know why the actual AoE damage boss couldn't get some either. I think it might have been a missed opportunity for a ground-based elemental attacker with AoE and burn, especially if you could synergize with Virtuosa.

[@NikkiTheViolist]

tbh it's my headcanon that Arts Fighters are going to get a burn-based module as one of their options, since a full half of the Arts Fighters (and notably both 6-stars) are very much flame-themed

[@Yats6417]

Thank you for being considerate towards Base Ch'en and Irene enjoyers and censoring Degen for us

[@moment5439]

The happiness I felt at that moment can't be described with words alone

[@mochidash]

she wont be forgiven.

[@frds_skce]

No way, Degenbrecher the best

[@WhimCh]

Hypergryph could literally salvage more than half of their operators from E1 irrelevancy jail if they just tweaked E2 promotion/leveling to be less grindy. The game feels like spreadsheet simulator sometimes, where I'm trying to optimize every drop of sanity (both IRL and in-game) and every ounce of Base efficiency so that it doesn't take a month to bring a single operator to E2. No sane person spends money on material/LMD packs or sanity refills, so it's not like they're profiting from the oppressive timegating.

[@mochidash]

such is the nature of a gacha game truly unlucky

[@psychocrysis2]

@@mochidash Games with shitty rates like FGO tend to have trivial leveling, and vice versa.

[@IrvineTheHunter]

It's to keep people playing, if your not on the game, spending IRL time and sanity to promote operators you can't get the good stuff. Like I might just skip events I don't like if not for all the bits and bobs. Well I averaged over an op every two days for the entire first YEAR, but now I have a que of like 12 e2 ops waiting on modules. Me grinding those bits and bobs keep me auto running missions and checking my base to keep chipping at my que.

[@datnoob4394]

Mochi has been watching Suprah

[@JADATH650]

"For their role" is an underutilized phrase in AK. Not "for their class" or "for their subclass" but for their role. Vivi as a +plus def and +res solo guard with a shield and above 5* damage is a great role for an op to be in. It is just a less utilized role than "wipe the field"

[@wildfire_]

That’s the problem though. She’s good in her role because her role isn’t good. Why be a tanky melee arts single target when you can be an arts multitarget, a melee multi target, etc. she is the best in her role because mlynar and texalter does her job better while being in other roles. For better or for worse, AK never forces you to use a specific operator or strategy so she will always be suboptimal to a better, more flexible character

[@ThaDude]

​@@wildfire_It's because HG is designing generalists to be so good that niches are almost non existent. If mechanics don't punish for not soft countering or hard countering, then ignoring mechanics is better especially if the generalists have big dps to clear a stage and ignore mechanics. It is really ironic since early game teaches to study and exploit mechanics to our advantage then just make ops so strong that ignoring mechanics is ok.

[@ristier31]

The funny thing is that if you need a tanky arts melee. s3 Blemi and to a lesser extent s1 Nian are okay for that with some planning.

[@Nian91131]

Vivi role is supposed to be laneholder to be different with surtr. And 1 block laneholder without unlimited duration skill is a failure to be laneholder to begin with. The comparison between on skill and offskill is huge with addition being 1 block that "need" to put another blocker especially during offskill is far from "good" role

[@cherrypebis]

my heart dropped when you showed the hoederer banner, actual ptsd war flashbacks In all seriousness tho, it is so much more fun to use the "weaker options". I could use the TexAlt I have, but I have a lot more fun using Phantom BECAUSE he doesn't solve the entire stage for me.

[@fz_dracohart1255]

Basically me nowadays. Mlynar and Texalter can solve all my headaches, make my skin clear and wash my dishes but I choose to bench them. Boy I don't regret burning some practice plans and sanities to make weird Penance+Fia combo works in many levels and pop Lappland beside her Lord buddy Thorns. I only use brainded meta like Texalter and such when I don't have time or don't enjoy the stages or the story. Unfortunately that mood strikes more often lately and I found myself begrudgingly fielding meta ops again despite wanting to have fun with Viviana and trying the forgotten 5*s.

[@0bscurelight689]

​@@fz_dracohart1255what is the Fiammetta and Penance combo?

[@mochidash]

im sorry i use him if that means anything

[@cherrypebis]

@@mochidash together we can make hoederer the most used op in the game

[@thewhodehell]

IF i must use yato alter, I ALWAYS bring phantom, too. That being said, yato alter is temporary, phantom is forever

[@dark18yt64]

LMAO Vigil literally won me the last stage of this Viviana event, he was able to hit the machine to change the music and generate DP, made my life much easier

[@mochidash]

vigil stocks up

[@thegoldexperience8340]

"2 dp" shit's good

[@obsiangravel]

​@@thegoldexperience8340this might be shocking news but he has 2 whole other skills

[@heseipikmin6415]

I appreciate your statement that "using Bad Operators will make you play the game more creatively than just press their Skill and watch them trivialize the game." In fact, I run a Niche called Badknights, which revolves around using all these "Bad Operators", which is direct proof that, even with the community deemed "worst options", they will still get the job done (yes, even Wind Chimes or Spuria). After all, Arknights is a strategy game first and foremost, not the "DPS power fantasy gacha consoomer" game people claim it is.

[@Luxo-tm9mp]

Spuria understandable but Wind chines deals great damage to a line I dont get why people consider that bad

[@mochidash]

well the proofs in the pudding as they say

[@delphynenull2136]

I think Viviana’s real crime is just being so different from her boss unit, rather than simply not out-scaling Surtr.

[@St33ldancer]

Poor Rosmontis, she deserves better

[@tyaty]

Flingers got much better with their module.

[@GorkyZer0]

While still lacking DMG, with her mod She at last sometimes shines when mechanics need "x hit count" instead of damage dealt. Like in last chapter She can push Bombs easily against any number of opponents. Same with deleting floating haunted items...

[@ohdiethere7641]

@@tyaty Rosmontis module vastly improved her S2 in particular, it's pretty great.

[@M75248]

The great thing about Arknights is unlike other games, you don't need the meta units to clear the game. You're not gonna struggle much either. Any well maintained account can clear the story if the Doctor knows what they're doing. That's exactly the point of Kyostin and Eckogen's low star guides!

[@wickeddave5148]

Until something like DoS is on the way

[@nootnoot1537]

Unironically, vigil is my go to vanguard nowadays, his S3 carried me well on chapter 13 because he deals triple hits, propelling the bombs nicely. Though his S1 is my go to skill, just prop him and have him afk lanehold early game while giving itsy bitsy amount of dp and regen his wolves. Really, when you like an operator well enough you’ll always find a place for them

[@mochidash]

rare vigil supporter, very based.

[@macsenpai7006]

SilverAsh is never bad, he's still very useful.

[@yoshitsuneminamoto6096]

+ on CN he have module and DMG almost same as Mlynar

[@macsenpai7006]

@@yoshitsuneminamoto6096 Helidropping + Redeployment time reduction for more helidropping + invisibility reveal + slightly wider range. I still use him a lot along with Texalter, Kirito, Surtr and Skadi. He is making a contribution just by having him in your squad.

[@skarhabekgreyrukh8601]

​@@macsenpai7006 kiritp? did you mean our boi lessing?

[@macsenpai7006]

@@skarhabekgreyrukh8601 Kirin R Yato, she's a fast-redeploy operator, also known as Yato Alter.

[@skarhabekgreyrukh8601]

@@macsenpai7006 yalter to kirito is too far lol

[@MereleFerele]

This is a really good and nuanced look at "bad operators". I think another problem is, while "there are no bad operators, only bad doctors" and "every unit is usable if you figure out how" are true, a lot of players either aren't big brained enough to make it work, or don't care to 'git gud' in their fun time vidya gaem. Neither of those are insults, I think being casual and being dumb are valid life choices. But while a lot of not necessarily hardcore but I guess heavily invested players do enjoy the challenge, there's a reason the most well-known AK creators are guide makers. Game hard, and it seems natural to me that operators who "make it harder" would be considered bad. For me, I really like Viviana and have been using her, but boy do I need a meta squad to support her because I am bad enough at the game for it to tip over into 'frustrating challenge' instead of 'fun challenge'. It sucks being tired of meta but not good enough to really flourish in a niche. That's why you can never ever quit because I'm living vicariously through you, no pressure.

[@mochidash]

thats why i do the "frustrating challenge" for videos but also recommend meta since its a fine line and dependent on the person. meta isnt bad and is a valid way to enjoy the game but people need remember that those other ops arent that bad either c:

[@alicesynthirty]

"So what's the point of the video? That is - " *ad break cuts in* Almost had me spilling my coffee lmao

[@nerinerium]

6:30 we will be seated for the upcoming enforcer solos patriot video

[@mochidash]

( real )

[@NikkiTheViolist]

0:55 and here i thought Arknights was a visual novel

[@mochidash]

you arent wrong.

[@kiki123456able]

Arknights is a whole novel

[@MythlyInari]

@@kiki123456able Arknights is a series of novels. 3 minutes for 30 minutes of story? HELL YEAH I'M HERE FOR IT

[@dukeee19844]

Ever since I started Arknights about two years ago, I've been a dedicated Only Operators I Love-knights niche player and I really think that's the most fun way to play. I find it so funny every time I see tier lists ranking 6 stars on whatever criteria and when I go looking for the 7 (including Viviana

[@ArgentoNatsu]

i too believe in favoritism-knights because that way i can challenge myself in beating stages with the units i Like using and not the 'meta' edit: no one asked but my favorite has always been Texas vanguard so I bring her to EVERY stage

[@pitchlag1502]

My Lunacub had been sitting at E0 until I got her temporarily ONCE in IS4 and fell in love, she served me pretty nicely in ZT-S-3 recently :D Cheers to favoritism, Lee may be niche but great character, absolute joy in IS and I will immediately E2 90 that man when I get him because that is what he deserves (He'll get to be the first one too)

[@dukeee19844]

@@pitchlag1502 Lunacub always manages to creep onto my team while running event stages! There's just so many times when her default invisibility and +aspd skill comes in clutch. The way you are with Lee is how I am with Ho'olheyak lmaooo I'm so ready to go full Levitate gaming with her and some of the upcoming five stars 😭

[@mochidash]

waifu > meta as it was written in the stars

[@rexnatori]

Czerny Flint enjoyers lets gooooo

[@Mal_arknights]

I think you hit the nail on the head. Viviana is neither *busted *interesting *has utility I have built plenty of operators who aren't amazingly good because they do something interesting or fun. While Viviana is just... Astesia powercreep.

[@Vasharan]

Yeah, I don't think mochi does a good job of making the case for why Viviana "isn't bad". If anything, it's the opposite. He emphasizes how operators with interesting kits lead to more creative clears and a better appreciation of game mechanics. Yet Viviana is completely boring. Her only utility is to sit in a lane and attack, and sometimes, RNG lets her not die. Her kit is klunky and unwieldy, as being reliant on second activation means she loses 30% of her potential if she's not put down early (and left to sit there) or if she's redeployed. This is a complete failure of design, and even if Viviana had a zillion Arts damage, she would still be a boring (mechanically) character. Except she doesn't, and is weak and boring.

[@mosesnyper]

Real case of the boss when you fight them vs the boss on your team. I wish our Candle Knight could make huge explosions like Reed Alter 😂

[@Sazandora635]

I think Spuria is the only character I can't think of any use cases for whatsoever when there are buffers who are both stronger and don't slowly kill themselves by existing/randomly stun the person they're supposed to be helping. Even Vigil has some closet uses due to his wolves able to soak multiple hits from hard-hitting enemies who aren't really meant to be tanked/blocked and his module is going to make them better at that by giving them innate physical dodge.

[@Razor4884]

Spuria increases Fiammetta's S3 DPS by 68%. She fires slowly enough that it doesn't matter if she gets stunned. Since her attack interval is longer than the stun duration.

[@Sazandora635]

​@@Razor4884 I guess she'd also work with any other sniper with increased attack interval on their skills like Ambriel S2 or Typhon S3, too, though the lack of self-healing on her talent unlike Aak can still be problematic.

[@NikkiTheViolist]

just, whatever you do, don't use Spuria with Rosa S3 if you're going to pair her with Rosa to make a DEF-ignore team, stick with Rosa's S2

[@EvanChu0815]

Spuria slander is crazy as always. The worst unit on the game probably goes to Windflit. He exclusively buffs supporters. At least, Spuria buffs a damage class. And, no. Her stun isn't bad. It's an auto attack reset for slow attacking snipers since the stun time is slower than their normal attack interval. Once they leave the stun, they throw out an auto faster than they could've normally

[@sirloin6856]

Just like Astesia. Her kit is boring and basic, but she's very pretty

[@mochidash]

pretty indeed

[@gargutz907]

Arts fighters are just bad archetype. The only one used commonly is Surtr and that's because she doesnt play like arts guard but like helidrop on steroids. 1 block is bad, no self sustain and mid stats are bad. If you need arts dmg its usually just easier to use a caster anyway. And then every second melee nowadays have arts dmg anyways (Tex2, Qiubai) or have enough raw dmg to overpower def (Mlynar, Hoe, Degen).

[@govinlock8568]

Nowadays, yes. There are plenty arts damage dealer. But back then it was hard to find ground arts damage. The source of arts damage from ground operators other than arts guard (Mousse and Astesia) during first day were Lappland S2 and Cliffheart S2 (true damage). Casters sometimes not an option because of their short range and lack of strategic ranged tiles.

[@gargutz907]

@@govinlock8568 well add Arene and Midnight to Lords-with-arts-on-skill and arts defenders like Durnar Asbestos and even Liskarm. And Lords range was almost always better. I remember I saw multiple low-end guides from Kyo in the earlier days with Midnight and Arene but Mousse was a rare sight, and mostly for debuff, not arts. The point is arts guards were always bad guard class from the very day1. Their niche is most of the time done better with other operators (well except Surtr obviously).

[@govinlock8568]

@@gargutz907 Arene was released after 1st anniversary. Durnar debut was about 3-4 months after release. Midnight? Few weeks after release. I know that arts guards are too niche that they would be overshadowed if someone do better dealing arts damage. I've started played Arknights almost a month after the game released and I can say Arts guard is not always bad.

[@PanzerIVAE]

This means you guys should totally build Ceylon

[@czaczaczar]

Or Vigil.

[@sb18wlc]

Already did...

[@sayospecter6731]

I have a fully maxed Ceylon with the Lv3 Module and everything, and I not only use her, but also prep her up as my obligatory 5-star Support.

[@mochidash]

you got the real meaning of video sasuga panzer.

[@NikkiTheViolist]

lmao i already built every medic shortly after getting them your Ceylon taunt is several years too late (Rhodes island is a pharmaceutical company, that's why i build medics)

[@Puff-lp8sk]

Think the reason as to why an operator is considered bad is because, while they have a niche, sometimes that niche is either way too small for investment, or they already have an operator that fits the nich well enough to get by. For example, Puzzle I would consider to be bad. I have never seen him be used in more than 1 video, but that one video, was a video showcasing that a Puzzle+Stainless combo can generate enough dp to sustain 1, if not 2 merchants in an annhiliation map. But the problem here is that you need a Stainless for it to wotk, so the niche is hard to accomplish, and the merchants we have aren't exactly good enough to warrant this setup, and a simple Myrtle would be enough instead.

[@CaptinSpyke]

Nah puzzle is legit fine, the real issue for him is that cantabile released first and shes one of the best 5 stars and is a top tier op in a general sense. If he had released first his reception would be a lot more modest I think, but he was one of our many reverse powercreep victims

[@kyubbikcat2281]

Czerny is a banger unit that nobody uses. And Bena is one of the best Arts tanks in the game.

[@halley_lu]

hey i use him

[@AleXwern]

Czerny is an absolute unit and he's cool

[@bladegrip8459]

@@AleXwern "Shall I- SHUT UP!! OR ELSE!!"

[@mochidash]

lingering echoes lore accurate clear me beloved.....

[@lowcalibremine3004]

5:18 Boycat detected, repeat boycat detected

[@Gekiko7167]

F@ck stainless! I spent 110 pulls (everything I had saved up) on Virtuoso and I got Viviana and stainless! There was higher probability for a limited of banner and somehow I got stainless! Out of spite I will never build him.

[@danilaevd]

​@@Gekiko7167 weak aura

[@mochidash]

this video ain't even about him....

[@skarhabekgreyrukh8601]

vigil have 3 block or 2 block, the damage is decent. just build cost is the issue

[@HuruHara575]

Ironically there so many dokutah who cant clear stages without following/copying guide despite they build many good and Meta operators

[@cefrinaldi8060]

Finally someone that understand Viviana. She isnt bad its just her kit is so boring and she is nothing more than astesia powercreep but more expensive. You cant just add more def and res when your opponent is basically immortal ( surtr's remnant ash ) and have higher damage than you. Vivi need unique kit to compete. She should take note on arturia and get her og art nuke back since that was one of the thing that special aboit her boss form

[@guy7118]

This video convinced me to M6 Viviana just because I wanted to and also I have so many resource to burn out

[@mochidash]

very based

[@Felix-kn7vx]

One thing I love about Tower Defense more than any type of games I ever played. There is no 1-way to win the game. That's the fun of it. You can play the way you like, with any character you like. Specially for Doctors that managed to pull it off with only 4 stars. You are crazy lol. Big respect.

[@mochidash]

nicheknight gamers rise up.....

[@DStarLugia]

It is a tower defense *with* resource management!

[@mochidash]

i can see.

[@hungsupremacy]

Part of the charm of arknights is that its a strategy game, thats why i enjoy it so much cause even with the more bad operators like Tsukinogi or almond or my beloved hung, they still have their uses, especially if you know how to correctly use them. Powercreep is definitely a huge issue on why a lot of operators are seen as bad cause y use phantom when u can just use texas or yato? Which i do hate but understand, but unlike other games you can still use “bad” or mediocre operators to clear most content in the game even most challenging content like CC or h stages, yeah theres times you will definitely have a very VERY difficult time without meta ops but again most of the time its a non issue, i do definitely wish there was more events like cc 12 that made mostima super useful or brought back underwhelming niches like silence again, but still what arknights has now is good. Every operator is still useable, especially if u know what to do with them, still is sad people just automatically call them bad or mid because they arent meta/aren’t meta anymore

[@hungsupremacy]

Like i do perro only and pretty much most of them are seen as underwhelming like Almond, Hung, and greyy, but i still make great use out of them, i mean i was able to beat the boss stage of jessica’s event thanks to almond because i realized you could use bind on the boss, so i was able to actually make Almond useful and have her bind him so ceobe could get the last few hits she needed, knowing how to properly use “bad” ops is fun, and hopefully more people will try to utilize bad ops just to see how good they can be.

[@mochidash]

woah, you got the point of the video ?!

[@Razor4884]

I prefer using the term "niche" over "bad." In my opinion, it's more accurate to describe the great majority of operators. For me, when something is described as "bad," it means it is incapable of being "good" in any scenario.

[@frn_umiii]

I remember starting arknights 4 years ago with just chen, when all my friends got ops like suzuran, exusiai, or even hoshiguma, and how hard it was on my end just using chen every stage.

[@zomfgroflmao1337]

One thing that is often overlooked is also the fact that a lot of 'bad' operators are highly specialized, so they might not be the best in all situations, but once their speciality comes around they are leagues above the more general competition. Someone like Thorns is a great example, he is highly regarded and greatly rated, but once the shit really hits the fan just disappears. Can you imagine how good Viviana would be if we get another event with super strong burning sword weeb type enemies?

[@lilmagi]

Then Thorns got his module and now he is back to being great. Even when the shit really hits the fan.

[@skarhabekgreyrukh8601]

lol, ling event make blue poison and ethan god tier

[@luisgabriel7565]

@@lilmagi Thorns still a General content operator, he just doesnt die to the thrash mobs anymore thanks to his modules and he still is underperforming over the new Laneholders we have

[@philipek1879]

​@@luisgabriel7565Like?

[@kosigisa]

SMH shake my head (head shaking right now) Vivianas base skill is cracked

[@mochidash]

true end game, base optimization

[@rodrigolealmartir5902]

To me, the meta doesn't really matter until the really hard maps, like CC or the last EX stages of a given event. Until those stages, I just play with whatever combination of operators I think is fun. And even so, I sometimes get suprises. You know who was the key for me to clear the EX7 CM stage of the last event (which was way harder than the EX8)? Friggin' Firewhistle, who I had E2'd because she's cool and fun to use.

[@juances]

It's true that esources are limited and this plays a huge factor. If an operator isn't a huge upgrade over what you're already have or provides a frequently useful niche you're probably better spending your resources on someone else, that's the sad fate for operators like Viviana, being just ok isn't enough.

[@katrinecondukta7447]

well i'm a meta player that hates on bad operators but there is still a niche even the worst trash operators can fit in (usually), that is in base. Viviana has actually a pretty cool base skill. The same goes for operators such as eunectes. I don't use they much on my day to day basis clears, but by having at least this reason to raise them, and as they are raised, i still get to use them on a situation they become quite good, such as a niche clear on a stage or even IS. So if yall meta enjoyers want another reason to raise an operator try looking into their base stuff, it might do as well as it did for me.

[@mochidash]

base optimization the true end game for a meta player

[@akura6674]

I built vigil off on a bet... has never been used even once.

[@fefedusts]

still praying for his module to fix him, he is so cool.

[@dedcet634]

@@fefedusts his module is mid,you will still wait for second module?

[@Razor4884]

I found good use for him in Ch12. He was super useful for helping to block and search the civs while picking off spies.

[@fefedusts]

@@dedcet634 well, one can still hope :')

[@mochidash]

as is standard

[@Katzura]

I'd love to use more bad units, but my resources go to making the good ones, and then to try to find the bad ones that have nice niches in things like IS.

[@fakeuzero]

Bro, I love Hoederer. ❤

[@mochidash]

he's cool

[@MN-xh7yu]

I'm a waifu over meta player clearly because I tend to use whatever I think is pretty

[@Rodolphin]

Funnily enough while I did pulled on Chongyue’s banner, I only did 60 pulls for one copy of him but blew all my savings into the banner after his, Qiubai. She was a dark hair red eyes anime swordswoman which I’m a sucker for (can you guess why) and I love her so much. I instantly Max level M9 her and use her a lot more than Thorns.

[@zacharysiow5478]

that statement about players without community input actually raises a good point, reminds me of the first few months of playing AK, i just play and build whatever i have at the moment, regardless of meta or not, and had a lot of fun. Which kind of makes me wonder if the community's obsession with pulling or building the strongest/meta units kinda ruins the game for some new incoming players, where they would otherwise enjoy the game a lot more if they just play it on their own. Something to think about..

[@mochidash]

we will never know

[@nanashiNSH]

I have a second account that I gave a self-limiting rule of not pulling except for free pulls, recruitment and headhunting (basically just don't use orundums). I managed to get hoho and viviana on that acc. With hoho, I manage to at least find use for her almost instantly, even carrying some stages for me and I really liked her. But with viviana, I still struggle to find a use for her even after masteries. If she can't kill within her skill, she needs help with pretty much anything, especially surviving.

[@mochidash]

mod will fix her ( real ) if that mod just increases her shield talent then shell be golden

[@EggyEggtoast]

Bijiru... Do you guys think Viviana would work better if she was like uhhhh arts zuo le?

[@fz_dracohart1255]

Simply by making her S3 and/or S2 have unlimited duration on second activation like Thorns would make her great without making her braindead. Not exactly the same mechanics as Zuo le but at least putting her in the same satisfying level to use.

[@VeritasNumquamPerit]

The only hopium i think could fix her is give her module that give burn elemental. Not only it relates to her candle knight persona, it help her damage and survival and complement her skills that increase her hit rate

[@EggyEggtoast]

@@VeritasNumquamPerit She literally graduated and signed away the rights to being the candleknight the candle burst was in her words borrowed arts for the role

[@VeritasNumquamPerit]

@@EggyEggtoast where is it stated?

[@VeritasNumquamPerit]

@@EggyEggtoast adding, i just read nearl light newspaper, her bio, and i have not found any that tell that she relinquish the nova knightclub arts right. Heck,her 1st talent is candleknight, her 2nd talent is called nova, there's no other thing in arknight called nova beside her knightclub so she should still have her candleknight arts

[@bobromorca7198]

This is exactly why you stay away from most gacha communities. The 'good' or 'bad' characters is nothing but a suggestion in most cases but if you dare to point it out, you get laughed at. That being said, it is good to look at these suggestions at first when new to the game to figure out what works and why, but if you value your sanity, please do yourself a favor and stay away tier list once you figure things out. This is a game, heve fun and level who you want. Though I would still appreciate if they buffed Caernelian.

[@mochidash]

mod 2 will buff her ( real )

[@bobromorca7198]

@@mochidash yeeeeees, been trying to use her for so long without any real sucess. Looking forward to the next mod!

[@AWildRaito]

You could see a cursor move in the recording of Vivi's chibi in 2:43.

[@mochidash]

a cursor sure did move or did it ?!

[@Niolen]

Viviana is clearly a niche elite handler/phys boss killer, so i wanted her, i manager to do 300 pulls (because i wanted rosmontis as well and i was saving) i got 12 Virtuosas and 2 Vivianas, in a 10-pull i got 2 6 stars, both virtuosas, it was astounding how much the game didn't want me to have viviana

[@ViolaCampalto]

The video was great, it sends an important message to everyone who worries about not having "meta" operators but I have to say that Vigil sucks so baddd I got him today on an IS run and promoted him, all skills M3 but he was barely usable help

[@mochidash]

vigil will one day rise from the ashes. surely.

[@MilkCalf]

Having been playing Lupoknights since Siracusa I sometimes forget that Vigil is bad. I would of course never recommend him but he does do his job usually.

[@voices0000]

The real problem with bad operators was never that they're unusable, it's that they didn't need to be bad which makes it feel insulting. It's that HG releases them substandard in ways that are often obvious even just from a few preview clips and the skill tooltips, so the ones who playtest and calibrate them 100% know what they're making isn't good enough. And most of the time instead of bringing them up to par with modules later, they release another operator in the same role that doesn't have those problems. And it's worse now that HG has fully taken the foot off the powercreep brakes.

[@mochidash]

5th anni my beloathed

[@Lavi____]

My main issue with Vivi isn't her lackluster kit, it's that she is just not what I pictured her as a playable operator. She went from one of the flashiest and coolest NPCs in battle to one of the most boring VFX operators we have.

[@pepego2595]

Damn people really doesnt remember lessing at all At least people remember vigil being bad

[@CyanPile312]

I personally felt so good when people called Qiu mid and she was one of the most used ops to clear DOS S stages, bet they didn't saw that coming and i enjoyed it as she was my first 6* lord back in her debut banner

[@Joseph-gy2rn]

Saga it's not better than Bagpipe, Myrtle or Ines, this makes her bad? No, she is pretty good, AoE Damage, big attack, a Trait who gives a second life, also a SP and DP source, she just can't overpower the 3 meta characters

[@salesberuang4448]

That word, that sentence. I've hear that hundred times. Whatever they called them bad or good, using quotes or not, this kind of player always bring BAD MOOD to everyone.

[@Blazegreg2005]

As someone who's been taking Arknights seriously since January, (Have had my account for 4 years and played off and on) I like trying to figure out how to make Units I LIKE work. You can tell me that Blank OP is the worst Op in the game and I'll build them to Spite you with a huge grin on my face. Thats the beauty of Arknights! If people can do all these types of NicheKnight clears, just build whoever you want!

[@IamHero_1337]

I saw someone saying that Mlynar is useless now because Wis'adel is the new strongest unit, and I found that so funny. Ain't no way some people actually think like this.

[@frostknight7687]

Hoolheyak got a use. She lift annoying enemies to shut down their special effects like barrier pricks in the current that reflect dmg. I believe viviana need a slight push in her kit. She need some sustain and something special when she activate her skills like an explosion. I kinda wonder why didn't hg make her a lord or a musha. Those two classes fit her more than her current one

[@mochidash]

npc vivi where are you...

[@frostknight7687]

@@mochidash deep in my heart where she established a family and found the bathtub.

[@Kornithe112]

There at least should be fire effect in Viviana's skills to make her a proper candle knight

[@Black769.]

8:19 this is why I still use Exusiai with buffs and debuffs to shred some bosses, these 12 slots are great for an army of buffers and debuffers

[@snaperino4751]

So Viviana is not dmg over tuned, has a boring kit and RNG dependent. The “bad” operators is more like highly specialized but can be fun because of the interesting kit. But Viviana has a boring kit.

[@Truck-kun11]

Yeah, I feel like this problem is only going to get worse as Operators are getting more and more broken. For example, W Alter is probably the best Sniper in the game and every future Sniper that is released that is not as broken or does not have an interesting Niche will immediately be considered bad in comparison.

[@colorx6030]

8:20 I respectfully disagree. *Cough* Ling *Cough* laneholders

[@xc_OuMa]

Honestly, Vigil shouldve been cheaper to raise. He's one of my fave operators but yes, it's true, he doesn't really bring much to the table besides sick IT voice lines.

[@soloregalia7221]

I like using said "bad" operators... won't know how useful they are until they are actually used... the I adapt and improvise...

[@mochidash]

this is the way

[@mochidash]

this is the way

[@selensewar]

I can't seem to be able to see my comments under this video, but just in case it's a me problem and i haven't been banned - nice video with good points.

[@DrKriegsgrave]

there are not bad 6 star operators.. hmmmmmm **pulls out vigil** **watches vigil diss at the end** back to the bench, femwolfboy!

[@WhatTheGame]

At the end of the day with ANY gacha. Waifu > Meta. If your waifu IS meta, then you win twice.

[@irwinwinaris9800]

My first two six stars were Hoshi and Shining.... that really shaped me as a player

[@stef2337]

Every operator useful, it's just developers who not let them be useful

[@shadic1916]

I didnt even know Viviana was bad i just wanted her bc she looks cute

[@Mighty_Dork]

3:41 Guess I'm not a meta slave bcuz I have a built Eunectes that I think provides a lot of value in tough stages. Same with Pozemka. And I always have Archetto on my team, she's just the default sniper. And I also have all the meta stuff as well. Sometimes maxed Eunectes is better than maxed Młynar bcuz she also deals a lot of DMG but tanks better.

[@mochidash]

that’s the beauty of ak

[@cymo2433]

To be honest this vid shows more about the mind set then anything else. But to the instead of putting down some 6 stars as bad vs other units. its indeed also a factor that in a limited resources game like arknights 5 stars dont offer the power there cost needs. them taking the T4 ships is a big fuck you to 5 stars.

[@GlebSeva]

> there are no bad operators Verdant

[@GlebSeva]

Vigil (situational AF)

[@lapplandthewolf1133]

I can't find supah in the comments

[@silvioeduardosoaresdonasci3079]

i started with viviana.... but i got thorns, virtuosa, dorothy, typhoon, Lin and executor alter in less than one month, so my poor vivi will stay e1 for a good time lol

[@mochidash]

suffering from success

[@fuwasatoshi5076]

thx as always for the video

[@Murmur_65]

my opinion: Theres no bad operator but there is less useful to useless operator viviana's use is half lane holding and half bosskilling, shes not even good at both and her talent makes her compete with surtr soo yeah Viviana is less used than Surtr, they are good but the other is less used because of the other

[@zodkip3147]

eunectes vs horn?!? I'm sorry what? How in the world are they similar. They are designed to do two completely different things?!? (aoe vs single target elites)

[@r-gw2do]

I agree with this video a lot. I will always use Jessica Alter even if i get a better operator than her. I will always use her since i love her skills and kit. I love how much stratergy she requires and how flexible she is for my brain to adapt and create cool stratergies to have more fun!

[@mochidash]

creativity in my gacha game? i think not.

[@r-gw2do]

@@mochidash AGH! NOOOOOOOOOO!!! *dies*

[@Phos9]

Viviana can’t beat story stage boss Mudrock. She can’t fill her niche. Thought experiment: Would Viviana be overpowered if her S3 was permanent? That’s a pretty major buff, but I still don’t think she would. She doesn’t function like her enemy form, and then, would you look at that, six months later, wisadel. They’ve taken the community‘s feedback and fed it through their monkey’s paw.

[@halley_lu]

I built Viviana, and yes. That would be broken. I intentionally tried to replace surtr with her and unironically the only difference between the two was to place viviana earlier. That was the only playstyle adjustment I needed to make. It makes me wonder how many of the people who actually dunk on vivi (and other similar operators) have actually built and used them.

[@halley_lu]

Also, I just tested - Viviana only needs 1 medic to stay alive vs TW-8 mudrock. What's even funnier is that Surtr can't solo her either. For reference, both are E2 max S3M3

[@Phos9]

@@halley_lu That's the thing, she can stay alive, but to characterize it as anything but a stalling strategy is a stretch when she can barely outrun mudrock's shield regen. Meanwhile, I once got ceobe to kill TW-8 mudrock on accident. At E1. And this is rearranging deck chairs on the titanic, because it's still the wrong kit.

[@halley_lu]

@@Phos9 ?????????? Ceobe excels at killing single-target high DEF low RES enemies. What is the point you are trying to make?

[@mochidash]

very few ( which is the point of the video methinks....) since people take general community thought as truth which leads to more negative views on ops

[@tancurtizaak5035]

Normally I just shut the hell up and pull only for limiteds.

[@Piquliar]

I like Viviana enough, satisfying kit to me. I'll pair her with Haze when I get the chance hehe.

[@misbahul9044]

in the end it comeback to resource lmd, exp, chip and mats are not easy to collect afterall, sanity is capped and slow to refill that make base your best choice to get the resource (mainly lmd and exp) im almost 9 months playing, seeing it from new player perspective the most ideal way to progress is building base slave operator and build meta operator, the more efficient the better, and yes i do that lmao, pulling proviso, choosing shamare from 5* selector and ofc e2ing them aswell (e2 ing vulcan, morgan, delphine that i wont use, bibeak, tquila and scene is very fun to use) but most of them is just e2 for base but the outcome they give is retained and aslong i dont lazy my ass off to rotate them, they will payback eventually i got 40 e2 now, and 10 of em is for base purpose having "bad" operator is fine, im talking as for fellow new player dont focus so hard on people saying about operator, but do your own research also optimize your base ! and as 6:33, as newbie what i got from newbie pool is siege, angelina and shining, so do i e2 them (newbie pool nowdays feels way better tho ngl) some of irl friend says to reroll for SA or exu, but then i just go with it, and yes i actually playing with 3 of em most of the time before i got qiubai and eyja (in 2nd months of play) still i use ange+eyja to melt anyone most of the time LOL some says go built myrtle so you can borrow e2 unit, but the sigma me said i wont borrow any unit and watch guide (until i met patriot ofc) still proceed to built her, but being use to 2 block vanguards since day 1 (siege + texas), my myrtle still not max trust till this day ahahaha till this day i still bring those 2 vg, blue poison, shining, qiubai and eyja most of the time

[@mochidash]

my advice to newer players will always be "build your base first"

[@ke_vl]

it is through this video I learned that people think Eunectes is a bad operator lmao (she's one of my favorites and one of the few people I've max-leveled, I use her all the time in super hard content)

[@mochidash]

she is most certainly clowned on for sure

[@doktahsnotes3436]

My fucking god...that cancerous way of thinking is coming back. Thanks Viviana...

[@Xrona42]

You can hate me, but even after this video I will still continue to divide operators into 2 categories “good” and “useless garbage” (which of course you can play with, but why, because there are good operators)

[@yesduck2176]

What's the ost playing at the beginning of the video?

[@romerlausa7805]

This is also why I like Hoederer because I get to bring Ethan more on mission. I enjoy playing AK doing synergy. Like Viviana S3 + Saria S3 + Eyja S1. Sadly I only have Eyja. Viviana and Saria won't come to my account 😢 I have and love playing Abyssal Hunters though because their synergy is amazing

[@mochidash]

team building in my tower defense? never.

[@user-rs6zu9xs1i]

Eunectes is still my Goddess tho. With module her single problem is practically gone and she became just disaster on the field. Not many bosses can actually break her while in S3.

[@Lendario0X]

Did I just see Hoederer and ROSMONTIS being put in "bad 6* operators" with Viviana? Bro, or you are talking that Viviana are good or you just wrong... (I got the mensage of the video in less than 20 seconds, lessgo)

[@mrsugma]

Almost shot you in the head trying to slip Eben in the thumbnail 👁

[@mochidash]

guh

[@futanahriadventures]

I don't have anything against Viviana. But i have a gripe with her when Viviana came home 9 times before a single copy of Virtuosa at 271th pull. I built her either way, because i care more about their vibes and coolness instead, and she needs to be near the Nearls.

[@mochidash]

the true origin of hatred for some people