Vivziepop’s VERY QUESTIONABLE queer representation in Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss (ART COMMENTARY)

AAAAA first art commentary video!!! This took way too long since I completely forgot about it for a while and randomly picked it up and spent half the day on it 💀 anyways, like i said, if anyone has any feedback, lmk! Keep in mind, Im very new to this and also a minor, so I hope no one was expecting the most in depth video ever made 🥲
TWO RANDOM THINGS:
1) The drawing is of a character from the magnus archives, which is a really great horror fiction podcast. he’s wearing a sweater i ordered that reminded me of him.
2) THIS IS NOT MY REAL VOICE. ITS A FILTER 😭🙏 (i wish it wasnt)
#helluvaboss #hazbinhotel #vivziepop #controversy #art #videoessay #drawing #speedpaint #rant #queer #pride #hazbin #foryou #artist
SOME SOURCES I USED:
www.shipspsych...
en.m.wikipedia...
/ what_is_some_pansexual...

[@agenuinefreakofnature]

YOU GUYS HAVE LEFT A LOT OF COMMENTS SO APOLOGIES IF I DONT SEE THEM/RESPOND 🙏 So, most common feedback i’ve received is: 1) Music is too loud, speaking audio is a bit hard to understand and too quiet 2) Art is good (THANK YOU 😍) 3) Pretty good coverage of the topic, could use some improvements. 4) A lot of people don’t agree with me, which is totally ok! Like I said, this is entirely just my interpretation and personal opinions, but thank you for watching the video and leaving comments anyways 😋 So, if I were to make another video like this, what topics would you like me to cover?

[@bendystraww01]

I don’t think that the music is loud cause I can hear you very clearly!

[@purpleducck]

You should totally do more commentary on these shows. If you’re a jack stauber fan, you could make a video on the leaked song situation? I’m planning on making one about that and am curious to see what other ppls thoughts on it are. Super good video and great art :)

[@agenuinefreakofnature]

@Tobithepurpleducc I love jack stauber! I dont really know much about the leaked song situation, other than the fact that a song was leaked and someone made a trend out of it. I’ll add that to my possible video ideas. thanks for the suggestion! 🤩

[@KayKnowlastnme]

u forgot abt the horrible aroace representation

[@SaygeShroom]

I was going to give some positive feedback but looks like you got it covered good video as well

[@Ladynoirisback]

Charlie and Moxxie - Both bisexual, music lovers, wear bowties and suits, in a relationship with a skilled fighting woman, have an ex boyfriend who is a dick

[@TunnerTheMuffins]

Helluva Boss: Octavia, Loona, Blitzø, Moxxie and Stolas have daddy issues and ex issues(Except Octavia and Loona....) and as you said Charlie have daddy and mommy issues.....

[@iLoveBread_101]

charlie has an ex boyfriend-?

[@sova1235]

​@@iLoveBread_101I can't remember if it's canon or not but his name is Seviathan von Eldritch

[@Ladynoirisback]

@@iLoveBread_101 Yes, years ago in livestreams vivienne said she had a boyfriend named seviathan von eldritch his family were close with her family. There's a prom photo of them in the pilot and in the pilot Charlie called his sister "loser" during her inside every demon is a rainbow song. Seviathan's father Frederick is seen in a photo during episode 5 too posing with Lucifer looking like having fun

[@Windows_E_ight]

Angel Dust and Moxxie both coming from Italian mobs and both being a mob boss' son who is thought of as lesser because of them being queer and liking less masc/more fem things... with a cast so big (talking about both shows) she has SO MANY different stories and perspectives should could portray. Two of your leads should not have almost identical backstories....

[@charlie8829]

Also the way stolas is low key an abusive pos to blitz but gets no consequences cuz he’s just an innocent lil gay boy pisses me tf off

[@agenuinefreakofnature]

the hypocrisy of stolas is like…a whole other video on it’s own 😭 like yeah blitz is gonna think you think low of him because you treated him that way??? Hello??

[@panromanticpirate]

@@agenuinefreakofnatureThey Are Bringing That Up In A Future Episode Though? He Has Never Felt Loved, He Is A Royal, That Is What Love Is To Him. Viv Knows Stolas Isn’t Self Aware And Is Bringing Attention To That

[@donutcat5535]

@@agenuinefreakofnatureare we just supposed to ignore ‘my impish little plaything’?? Or him putting out his cigarette on Blitzø’s horn? Like how can you do that then completely 180 and be like ‘I never did anything wrong :(‘

[@Martyismylifesupport]

@@donutcat5535 y’all do realize we have like 50 or smth more episodes before helluva boss is done y’all act like full moon and apology tour are the last episodes stoliz will get charcter development just like blitz but y’all are fully dunking on them and complaining that stoliz is bad even though the series isn’t even done can we wait till the series is done to judge if the charcter is bad or not like fr :’)

[@charred.monarch]

​@@Martyismylifesupport so like, hypothetically- if a series showed a character doing the most vile things ever, or just treats people like shit, and doing a 180 and being like "but.. im a good character!! :(" we arent supposed to have opinions on the character we like or dislike? and its true though- stolas is currently a bad character to manys eyes, but other people discard that because its gay rep- and not-so-great gay rep, at that. hes just a toxic character, in my opinion, and i think we can judge him- no matter how "mentally ill" or other excuse he is, it doesnt make it right or change the fact that he is just a bad character who treats people bad, and with bad character traits so far.

[@DreamyHaze02]

A sign saying "I will f-ck anything" with the pansexual flag for PRIDE MERCH is just beyond questionable

[@alexbennet4195]

Why? It’s a joke…?

[@alexbennet4195]

@a_spectator_of_the_night what do you even mean with that…? In order to be someone who would “fuсk anything”, you… have to be bisexual ofc. But not all of her bisexual characters by any means behave like that - and the overwhelming majority of her characters are bisexual…?

[@Robin-Is-A-Bird]

I'm pretty sure that's JS the charecter

[@damainortiz]

@a_spectator_of_the_nightIt essentially makes that seem like it’s the only thing LGBTQ people think about all the time.

[@Jdudec367]

@a_spectator_of_the_night I think you are just taking a joe too seriously

[@Cider8]

Its very hard to see the difference between thats their personality and thats their sexuality, thats why its so stereotypical

[@agenuinefreakofnature]

exactly

[@koiloylo]

That’s a very good way of phrasing it

[@idkwhattoputhere5541]

i dont think thats necessarily the issue, its more that its hard to see the difference between their personality and the stereotypes of their sexuality. take, for example the captain from bbc ghosts, his worldview and the way he acts are shaped by being raised in a homophobic society. it makes sense for his sexuality to be a part of his personality. what doesnt make sense is for characters to just completely fall into stereotypes for no good reason.

[@kiddiestrangler]

the pansexuals being overly sexual was also something i heavily despised. i'm on the ace spectrum myself so my opinion might be influenced by that but there is NO need for these characters to be so icky almost every time they're on screen. i really like Husk for that reason too. he's not asexual but doesn't need to be to be NORMAL

[@Actualbowlofsoup]

@@kiddiestrangler yea, most of the pansexuals of the series are very sexual the only exceptions being Beelzebub and Barbie Wire (although Bee does have her moments). but other PAN characters in Helluva are typically VERY sexual blitz, Asmodeus, Verosika, Chaz and wIth hazbin there only two pan characters are Husk and Valentino , and while Husk is alright as a character valentino…. like i get most of these characters' professions are related to being promiscuous with everyone but it feels like a stereotype after a while. and now I'm realizing how many sexual characters are in this show lmao

[@agenuinefreakofnature]

im like 60% sure im on the ace spectrum, but even so, it was just something that bothered me so much especially considering thats one of the most common stereotypes of a pansexual person. like 😭😭😭 it almost feels intentional at that point

[@CamilleLohn]

Husk is pansexual! and if you want some good ace representation from Viv, then you should look at Octavia from Helluva boss

[@deadlyqueen7779]

@@CamilleLohnthe only reaspn she was asexual to me was because she was a minor 😭

[@tigerflower.]

​@@deadlyqueen7779Minors can be asexual

[@HurricaneBady]

Viz is so painfully a fujoshi that its embarrassing. She obviously fetishizes homosexual relationships and tries to throw in all the other lgbt stuff to deflect that criticism.

[@corporalregicide5248]

it's really telling that the only instances of trans rep in helluva are side characters that barely do anything of note just sequestered off to the side where they can be easily ignored

[@MyFailedOrgans]

as a gay man, i agree with you. i don't hate on the characters(angel dust, stolas, andre, etc.) but the representation and "feminine man = gay" stereotype that makes me infuriated, also the fact that most of the characters who are gay acted horn knee and it just... feels so wrong to me.

[@agenuinefreakofnature]

yeah, fr 😭

[@epikchicken4163]

Shrek 😥

[@Jdudec367]

I mean...tb a lot of characters in general act horny including straight ones like Nifty.

[@rsc5721]

wdym? there's not many feminine gay characters. Just Angel and maybe Stolas. Besides, it's a stereotype because it's not uncommon for gay men to be like that. Obviously not every gay man is feminine, but a lot of them are, and they are heavily demonized for it by society, so the representation is nice

[@MyFailedOrgans]

@@rsc5721 no, have you seen andrealphus and fizzarolli? yeah, they are also feminine. just look, they, or ALL have a twink body type

[@happyvibesO]

I fully agree. Plus I noticed how in HelluvaBoss, when Josh and Ace became a gay couple. Vivzie made Josh more "bottom-like" by making him smaller and more feminine. And it kinda bothered me.

[@agenuinefreakofnature]

YES. he slowly got more and more twinky like why what was the purpose 😭

[@happyvibesO]

Yeah! Josh and Ace were sorta the same height and they both just looked so cool in their first appearance. They would've been cool in like action (fighting) sequences or something. Lol

[@jaistinydiary.ৎ]

Vivziepop try to make diverse couples (IMPOSSIBLE1!1!!1)

[@Vesper31StudiosOffical]

Hated that, hes reality only a 1 inch or 2 shorter than him and rather muscular like while Ace is the same in body type, idk why she had to make him more feminine and shorter bc him being shy with the og character concept was already good enough for me- As in I'm the person who thinks two manly men being in love while one is shy and the other is confident is good, lately he's gotten shorter and shorter which is getting rlly weird bc I think changing his height once was already enough, like I'd rather have Josh be clingy rather than be the preppy boyfriend from that one webtoon 😭 (All I did was correct smth lol)

[@KnightOwlhoot]

​@happyvibesO I didn't notice this until I googled them and yeah, she made the wrong call. Like she should've kept the white haired one (idk who is who) the way he was. Thier dynamic would've been unmatched...THEYD BE SO COOL💀 Not to mention it'd break the stereotype of most if not all of her gay characters being feminine.

[@animuswonder]

we seriously need to talk about the way charlie and vaggie are shown. they barely touch, they barely flirt, they’re so toned down compared to the other gay characters. they just.. appear like a “golden gay” couple. the kind that homophobes can digest easily. “as long as they don’t shove it in my face!!” the show itself is so sex-negative. it distinctly positions sexuality as a joke and, with charlie trying to get demons into heaven, as sex to be something to be avoided. wtf.

[@animuswonder]

also. also. vaggie? vagina? the lesbian named vagina? that’s a hate crime to me (/j)

[@skitstheskitty2787]

THANK YOU FOR SAYING THIS. i don't think the rep is a huge problem in hh and hb. it's the weird sex negativity. i haven't watched either show so i can't give a detailed analysis but. the fact that most of the characters are overtly sexual with each other while the "model citizens (charlie/vaggie)" are like the most chaste couple in hazbin hotel. it's.

[@Kairoxys]

Maybe that's the issue viv is trying to call out?

[@SodaFrizz666]

​@@Kairoxys so, calling out something is participating in it wholeheartedly, to the point you're blatantly representing said thing? For sure

[@lifeisadrag7705]

This is my main issue with how the only lesbian couple (or more specifically the female characters) is written with Vizie.

[@Actualbowlofsoup]

I'm tired of all the sex jokes in the show too. like with full honesty the “IM A TOP” joke was so corny, it gives off the vibes of middle-highschoolers making sex jokes and them falling flat being they sound immature

[@shadowbonniedark9950]

Bro same. And that moment where Sir Pentious got r**ed on a party, that Viv thought it's "funny"... 😕

[@agenuinefreakofnature]

yeah i agree, the show claims to be “for adults” when it has the most immature humor ever

[@GoobersFurever]

So that’s why I thought it was so good in middle school 💀

[@Novas_Nook]

That’s why middle schoolers enjoy watching it :/ even thought it’s inappropriate for them but too childish for adults

[@IntrusiveFaerie]

Well she kinda did have most of these concepts in middle school

[@Material_melody]

I’m a a S@ victim and queer person, and I hate the representation of angel dust in this show so much I could go on for hours about it

[@agenuinefreakofnature]

aw, i’m really sorry to hear that :( i hope you’re doing better

[@Cleight87]

Yeah, I've seen ALOT people struggle to make good representation of SA victims or suicidal people, I understand why, but it's still a bit disappointing

[@skittlegore]

same i literally hate it

[@-satrivana-]

I've always loved it but I completely understand how you would hate it- Angel does harass others throughout the show too ._.

[@alexbennet4195]

Sucks for you ig but lots of people really like it 🤷

[@GarlicbreadLover420]

I agree with a lot of points in the video. I have no problem with the amount of lgbt representation, but viv just makes a lot of queer characters obnoxious by making sex(uality) their whole personality. Helluva boss just got ruined by making stolitz the entire plot.

[@Ytshorts_users_are_braindead]

Stolitz was Brandon's idea not vivs

[@grey.themusiccat]

alastor cat‼

[@90sdiablo51]

At least the Stolitz arc ended with Apology Tour. btw nice profile pic ;3

[@GarlicbreadLover420]

@@90sdiablo51 thanks :D! And yeah, hopefully it doesn’t come back later in the series. If helluva continues to be the blitz and stolas show I’m definitely not watching it anymore.

[@Sci-Bax]

Real😭 I think the Cherubs coming back was super cool, hopefully they get more screentime in the future

[@mettaton-x]

I am a gay femboy who is hypersexual but my presentation has nothing to do with my sexuality, I was feminine far before I knew I was gay, and my hypersexuality is due to mental illness rather than my gayness, and I don’t like talking about my hypersexuality out loud, and I don’t feel incredibly comfortable making sex jokes unless it’s about me wanting my fictional crush to step on me. I am a very clean person when it comes to drugs and things like that, instead im more addicted to tame things like sugar, and that’s because it gives me dopamine (I lack any natural dopamine whatsoever, that’s why im hypersexual). I can be emotional and overdramatic, but that’s personality, which me liking men has no effect on. I can also be a badass when im with my friends and I can feel confident, so just because I’m gay doesn’t mean im soft, even though I can be soft sometimes. Again, that’s personality, not sexuality. So, I do happen to be some of the gay man stereotypes, but as you can see, they have nothing to do with my sexuality, and my sexuality is something on the side. I just happen to like dudes. But PLOT TWIST IM A FEMBOY INTO FEMININE DUDES. TAKE THAT STEREOTYPES!! My point is that it seems like Viv is putting stereotypes into every character specifically because of their sexuality. With her logic, a character could be extremely feminine and hypersexual, BECAUSE they’re gay. It’s not just a coincidence, like I am, because she does it with EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER. I enjoyed Hazbin Hotel and I used to like Helluva Boss, but the stereotypical LGBTQ portrayal of all the characters is just frustrating. Not a huge fan of Vivziepop anymore because the combination of the extreme amount of sexual stuff in her shows (I’m hypersexual but sex stuff still makes me feel uncomfortable) and the horrible queer “representation”.

[@Sci-Bax]

Honestly I don't think I could be with a bearish guy, it just wouldn't feel very safe😭

[@AtlasDoesTheAnimates]

I think the video was mainly calling vivzie out for using stereotypes frequently in her characters, mainly negative ones. It's perfectly fine if you fall into these lines because you're actually human, the characters that vivzie creates are not. This is coming from a fem dude too who is hypersexual.

[@mettaton-x]

@@AtlasDoesTheAnimates I love your point. Also slayyy ✨

[@AtlasDoesTheAnimates]

@@mettaton-x yassss

[@mrs-dickey]

i am a transmasc guy who likes to keep my femininity, and i am also hypersexual. part of it is a response to S/A that happened when i was 9, and a response to my severe depression and anxiety. i hate it whenever people automatically assume hypersexual people are hypersexual because we want sexual attention :/ and i hate how people always assume if you're queer, its automatically about sex. its fucking odd

[@p0ckiiturtle55]

Vivzie’s version of LGBT rep is basically just tumblr gay rep. And I don’t mean like Lumity and Korrasami. Or CaitVi and Luca x Alberto. It’s like Viv is stuck in her “uwu smol gay bean” tumblr phase and it’s seeping into her work

[@s4ltenj0y3r]

What do you mean by that then? Like any examples of ships?

[@p0ckiiturtle55]

@@s4ltenj0y3r Sorry but that’s like the only ship I could think of. That and when people were shipping Dan and Phil

[@s4ltenj0y3r]

@@p0ckiiturtle55 Oh yeah, that! I was a gacha kid back in the day so I know what you mean

[@aimeeh2079]

Tbf she literally started during that time (many of her characters were made when she was in middle school) so it makes sense a lot of it bleeds into her work at times. Not to defend fully but yknow, context haha

[@barrysteakfriessimp_real]

don't insult tumblr gay rep like that, they could never stoop to levels as low as Vivzipop.... stupid joke aside, as a gay dude i'm so tired of the "uwu smol bean" trope with gay ships. like i'm not opposed to the concept of one partner being more feminine and sweet than the other, that's fine in itself and i do find fictional relationships like that to be really cute, but also if it gets to the point where that's the only type of gay rep ever... yeah i'm gonna start raising some eyebrows. especially if it comes off as fetishy or genuinely problematic.

[@what._0kxx]

As a romance/sex favorable aroace, people always find some sort of excuse to ship Alastor with anyone and uses aroaces like ME as an excuse to ship him with other characters. Yes, some aros/aces CAN date/have sex and CAN feel some sort of attraction to an extend, but it is SO CLEAR that Alastor isn't romance/sex positive. He has shown signs of being repulsed to romance/sex. For example: In the pilot, Angel dust told Alastor that he can suck his ykw and Alastor was in shock and said no. Alastor is a repulsed aroace, NOT a favorable/positive aroace. But then again, I would love to see more romance/sex favorable aro/ace rep. As much as I agree with other aro/ace people about Alastor, some of them make it seem as if ALL aros/aces MUST be romance/sex repulsed when thats not the case at all, and can be super invalidating for aroaces like me. Aromantism and Asexuality are two separate spectrums and I need people to understand that.

[@humanintelegence]

i agree! PLEASE respect Alastor's replused writing, but also we ONLY get replused aro/ace characters.

[@krampus7520]

Ngl turning someone down because they offered to suck your d* is normal behavior, not necessarily indicating that he's compleatly celibate altogether Sucks that not acting like a whore is a thing of "oh you must be ace lol"

[@Spleenchomper]

I get what you're saying but, just because alastor said no to angel dust being weird to him doesn't mean he's repulsed? I mean angel was just some completely random guy who just randomly offered that, just saying Also, I'm pretty aroace, I don't feel attraction to real people at all, I have fictophillia, but also tbh why would you still do freaky stuff and be with people if you're aroace? The whole point of it is that you don't feel attraction, I would get it if you're asexual and do it for your partner because you consented to doing it for them, or you're aromantic and just like freaky obviously, but with aroace you don't date anyone, you wouldn't get anything out of it? I know some aroace people do freaky by themselves and stuff btw, but besides that part at this point aren't you just greyromantic and greysexual (I think it's called)???

[@what._0kxx]

@@Spleenchomper 1. I mentioned that aromantism and asexuality are SPECTRUMS and the whole point is that you feel LITTLE to no romantic/sexual attraction 2. Gray romantic/Gray sexual is part of the aromantic asexual spectrums (they're microlabels) 3. Aroace people who do romantic/sexual activities have their own personal reasons to why they participate in romantic/sexual activities. (Please understand that romantic/sexual attraction does NOT ALWAYS intertwine with romantic/sexual action) 4. Yeah Alastor could just be weirded out but at the end of the day, he's still aroace who shows no interest in dating/sex.

[@Spleenchomper]

@@what._0kxx I genuinely have no idea what you're trying to say, you didn't explain anything and I'm extremely confused, aroace people don't feel attraction at all, they have no need to do that kinda stuff. They have no desire for it, but okay, I'm not trying to argue or anything so have a good day/night

[@-bedbug-]

I enjoy the show, however I think they tried too hard to make it “for adults only” but it more comes off as a 2019 gacha PG mini movie. I understand Vivzi wants to keep the show 18+ but I kinda think Angel and Stolas are the best representation of Viv over-using the “overly sexual” and “overly romantic” terms and personality traits. I want to know what Angels personality is like under his “sexual” behavior and same with Stolas.

[@blorks]

I think we have a good amount of what Stolas is like besides his horniness, though

[@autumn_sunday]

Tbh Helluva feels more for adult audiences, while Hazbin definitely feels like a weird mix between a kid's show and a dramatic, emo fanfic...

[@-bedbug-]

@@autumn_sunday exactly lol!

[@ivxntill]

@@autumn_sundayTHIS! i literally found a screenshot of an emo prince demon alpha and lucifer’s demon form side by side and they’re so similar..

[@rocketship3396]

Just imho, I feel like AD was deliberately playing into the hypersexual stereotype, he even says at some point it's who he needs to be. Husk points out it's a fake personal as well. It's like how some people feel a lot of pressure to be a stereotype (women=feminine, men = masculine, and even some racist stereotypes, etc) even if they don't like it.

[@evelynnashley-rc9sx]

I usually don't care how many queer people there are in a show or game or book compared to heterosexual, hell, you can make all of the characters queer no matter if they're main characters, side characters, or even just background characters, it's the stereotypes of queer people that I'm mainly concerned about

[@Chloe4656.]

This is why I avoid adult western cartoons most of the time.

[@Manuelkaramorifan]

Me too

[@TerabyteAIX]

I'm bi, and in a same-sex relationship, so I think I can speak on this matter. I stand by the statement that if Stolitz was straight, Viv would be *crucified* due to how toxic it is. But it's gay so the community is like "aww the gaysss :3" This goes for Ozzie/Fizzie too, if it were straight it would be classified as toxic.

[@parakodraws]

tbh… im gonna say it, vivziepop’s queer representation reminds me a hell of a lot of that Boyfriends webtoon that everyone made fun of a few years back. just really cheap, one-dimensional stuff. idk though, i still haven’t watched hazbin or helluva lmao

[@SheetGhostWithBones]

BRO THATS SO FR

[@NonArtisticArtist-ari]

I don't really agree with this video (it has good points but overall i think its done well considering the way that the characters need to be like, with character development and plot, its just unfortunate the way it works out) but also, what in the world was the boyfriends thing i have not been able to find a clear answer

[@cosmically4286]

At least the boyfriends webcomic never pretented to be anything but harmless fluff, meanwhile Viv and her fans love to act like their show is the second coming of bojack horseman or smth when it has literally nothing of substance to say and completely feed harmful stereotypes

[@screw_a_username7491]

PARAKO :D

[@Jdudec367]

@@cosmically4286 It has characters of subsance like Angel Dust and Husk and Charlie. though, and it doesn't have stereotypes.

[@BreadBush]

I hate that Angel's hypersexuality is being treated like a cutsie flirty quirk and a part of his personality, and not like the very real very destructive trauma response it truly is, its just a giant fanfiction that wants to be mature but doesnt delve into the actual shitty parts of being a victim. Give Angel a boyfriend im sure that the power of Husks love will fix his emotional state with a few hugs and a song

[@shrekk14]

everything vivziepop does just makes me appreciate the owl house more i don't know why, maybe it's because the relationships in that show are portrayed as completely normal !! and not abusive, or stereotypical, or kinky, or what not its literally just: girl date girl and they're happy that's it and that's all it should be in my eyes

[@runajain5773]

Also even starting of show se Emily introduce she just bully but slowing series both luz and Emily slowing understand each other Emily have affection her although they approval that episode she mashup love tunnel even still slowing they start love each other

[@platinumg.8614]

I think my problem is Amity kinda loses a bit of her personality when dating Luz, but man, for a TV series that got cut because of said relationships I give major respect for being very clear. She probably would do a great job if got time. Is also pretty good Dana confirming some sexualities of character like Lilith (Aro, which is pretty cool!), Hunter and Willow (being bissexual and panssexual I think).

[@forg839]

meanwhile charlie and vaggie being that but i guess they dont count since only the "bad" examples do

[@BigRed-x7f]

@@platinumg.8614👏 THIS. I will die on this hill. I love the lumity dance scene, and the ship when it started but Amity lost a lot of what made her interesting after she started a relationship with Lus. She went from mean girl, to all I care about is pleasing lus and being the best girlfriend, which kinda fits her character about being the best she can be, but…. Idk it’s just so much less interesting than her arcs earlier in the series. But yeah, for being cut short the series does well. It feels fast paced in the last few episodes, but you can’t really blame them given the circumstances.

[@GlowCat135]

isnt that what chaggie (the only so far confermed stable relatinship in the show is)

[@ZeFireGatherer]

Quite literally, Husk is the only pan character I can get behind as a pan person. Even Bee shows signs that she isn't being loyal to her partner as she openly talks about being attracted to another man in front of him which makes him visibly uncomfortable. Husk is just so sick of everyone's hypersexuality and I will forever feel that in my soul as people always assume "I'm pan" translates to Chaz's poor portrayal 😬

[@PGbutalsofourteenplus]

I think Bee was only talking about finding a Shirtless Satan attractive LONG BEFORE she met her boyfriend

[@purpleducck]

Im queer and I wish they wouldn’t make it so important in the show. I really appreciate the representation, but when the representation is just gay people making sex jokes it gets really uncomfortable and stale. I’m aroace spec, so maybe I’m not viewing it properly, but I really don’t understand why as a society we feel the need to revolve so hard around romance, but specifically sex. We get it, y’all do that sometimes, y’all don’t need to talk about it literally 24/7 like cmon 🥲 what I find weird is that there’s clearly visible transgender characters in the background of the show like you mentioned, including sally may, but it’s NEVER talked about. In every single episode, we hear smth about sexuality and at least a million fucking sex jokes, but the trans (and ace) characters have literally never been talked about. Overall tho great video man, your art style is super cool and I actually got a lot out of this video, it would be cool if you made more :3

[@agenuinefreakofnature]

aro dude here, and I appreciate the different view of perspective because I actually like romance in shows. I would absolutely love more speaking role trans characters as well as A FREAKING NONBINARY CHARACTER like 😭😭😭- and i agree. There’s way too many sex jokes to the point where it gets really old and honestly beat to death. It almost seems like Hazbin and helluva have no idea how to develop the plot so they just go, “hahaha gay sex hahaha” and that’s it 💀 anyways, thanks for commenting, and I will most likely make more since this video is doing pretty well and I’ve been getting some good feedback!

[@agenuinefreakofnature]

also wait a dang minute I’ve seen your content before, didn’t expect you to comment 😭🫶

[@purpleducck]

@@agenuinefreakofnature Aw I didn’t think you would know me 😭 seriously tho, I really do hope you make more commentary videos bc this one was great! :)

[@AdriftInTheWatersGorge]

also Ive never seen nonbinary characters either :/ (maybe in heaven? lol idk) just cis gays and 1 binary trans person and a couple background trans characters (that may or may not be binary) that arent voiced but idk how Viv even feels about us enbys Ive heard shes controversial on some things but Im not sure if that was one of them. at least I have Owl House and Our Flag Means Death and at least I dont have to worry about viv being weird towards nonbinary people through a nonbinary character etc so win some loose some Ig.

[@grey.themusiccat]

fellow aroace person WASSUP‼

[@Miseritris]

As a lesbian woman, I find Vivizi's lesbian representation so... excluded, she can't do it without being about men, Sally May and Vaggie are not enough. Vaggie is the most underrated and forgotten character in Hanzbie Hotel, it seems like not even the creator likes it. of her and Sally may not even be mentioned, the poor Sally has no focus on the series and won't, fortunately (or unfortunately) Vivane doesn't fetishize lesbian relationships like she fetishizes gay relationships, I sincerely hope that the clown sisters, Stella, Velvette and all the female characters who do not yet have canonical sexuality, are actually lesbians

[@genericinsight]

Sallie May’s voice actor has confirmed on her IG that Sallie is going to have a canon in series girlfriend eventually! And confirmed that she is a trans lesbian.

[@Miseritris]

@@genericinsight I hope her girlfriend be lesbian too

[@sukriti7213]

Vaggie especially pisses me off because I was really hoping her relationship with Charlie would be good but they've got nothing going on. Seriously, ik people who watched this show and thought they were friends until they kissed at the end 💀. There's some interesting stuff implied like how Vaggie cares more about Charlie than she does about her own safety but they never properly flesh out that dynamic. Vaggie doesn't get to do ANYTHING and doesn't have a lot of personality shown which is a shame. Even Charlie gets sidelined in her own story. Vivzie kind of sucks at writing women.

[@LightBoltDash]

Vivzie is a fujo through and through. I'm even actually legit doubting her bisexuality at this point. A genuinely bisexual woman loving lady would straight up try to do more than this, like she's so obsessed with her little uwu gay boys like a true fujo it's insane.

[@moondivine2288]

Think about it this way, no one has criticized She ra and the owl house for excluding gay, MLM, relationships. The ones that are seen are dads. No representation is 100% perfect. And to be sadly fair Amazon only gave Hazbin 8 episodes, some things would be rushed. Just wait until future seasons for more Vaggie x Charlie.

[@bendystraww01]

Omg your little oc with the shark in the corner is SO ADORABLE AAAAAAA

[@agenuinefreakofnature]

thank you! 😭

[@weirdgriffindragon]

I support Vivzie, but I don't really like her shows. Even coming from a hypersexual person, I feel like she's trying too hard to make it "for adults" with too many sex jokes...

[@agenuinefreakofnature]

yeah, and little does she know making it full of sex jokes does not in any way make it more mature or adult like 💀💀💀

[@TheUniqueen999]

She said many times her mainly humor comes from stuff like Family Guy and SP, it's just her sense of humor

[@JTMsmrithi]

Yeah, the humour is so immature

[@leafylynx983]

thats satire right

[@leafylynx983]

like supporting vivzie because shes done a lot of shit you shouldnt support her

[@MuddyLives]

You're right. If I knew nothing about lgbtq, i would've probably not liked it based on how they are presented in that show.

[@Smartfella297]

I watched a Helluva boss episode with my homie several years ago. Now it makes perfect sense on why is he homophobic

[@nikeyboy5371]

@@Smartfella297 that sucks that your friend is homophobic but that’s actually so funny 😭

[@Ebh55.]

@@Smartfella297 Pls tell me you are joking. 🤦‍♂️ There is no sense for being homophobic.

[@Smartfella297]

@Ebh55. of course it makes no sense, but I was trying to explain the effect

[@Smartfella297]

@@nikeyboy5371 lmao

[@NEPTUNE-hp5np1rq9g]

Im Demiromantic. I wish she gave us more ace rep that isnt crowded by constant s3ggulization

[@Ytshorts_users_are_braindead]

Octavia is ace it could be important since all the male goetias are gay and they need to breed

[@Batz-on-paws]

YES!! I'm so tired of the response always being "Ace people can be sexual too!" Like... WE KNOW. We would just like to also have ace characters who aren't sexual or overly sexualized! I swear, sometimes I feel like people sexualize ace characters to spite their sexuality I really hope that if Helluva Boss ever explores Octavia's asexuality it will be disinterested/repulsed ace rep

[@Something.Go0fy]

FRR I'm DemiR/Pan and I rly wish we had more rep that isn't just "romance and sex and is EVERYTHING!!!!!!"

[@Nightman221k]

What does demiromantic mean?

[@Something.Go0fy]

@@Nightman221k It's on the Aromantic spectrum, it basically means that you have to have a strong emotional attachment to someone before you develop romantic feelings. Like a friend you've known for a long time or just someone you're around a lot and genuinely enjoy the company of.

[@redeir]

5:09-gay man here. It's only an issue when you make all of them fit the stereotype. Gay people are surprise! real people and they come in all shapes and sizes. Because it isn't really representation if you cannot show us more than just a heavily exaggerated stereotype copy and pasted.

[@Paggylyn]

I myself am a lesbian, so I was pretty excited to see Vaggie and Charlie’s relationship in Hazbin Hotel seeing how much focus Viv had given gay relationships in her other work. But for some reason she continuously brushed aside Charlie and Vaggie’s relationship a lot. And the whole “conflict” they had was extremely forced and we rarely got to see much affection between the both of them. It almost feels weird how she treats lesbian characters compared to gay characters. Like, she tends to over sexualize relationships between two men and any lesbian couple feels forced in. But that’s just me.

[@TheUnmitigatedDawn]

I think Viv does a good way of balancing negative stereotypes and countering them with good rep. For example, Alastor is a villainous ace character but Octavia is pretty good. Valentino and Chaz are overly sexual pan characters but Husk is also pan and is the complete opposite

[@Spaceloverhere_10]

Fr

[@funtimewolf2683]

Yeah

[@william3100]

None of those good characters feel like they are asexual and pansexual respectively, though. You could say they are both bisexual or even heterosexual and it wouldn't really change anything.

[@TheUnmitigatedDawn]

@@william3100 Yeah, that's a good thing. Characters are not defined by their sexuality.

[@lunartimberwolf]

Alastor is actually aro/ace

[@StrawberryQuestions]

My personal opinion as a bi/pan (still figuring it out lol) cis gal is that yes, while it’s COMPLETELY okay to have characters like this (hyper sexual, drug addicts, flawed in general) a lot of characters in helluva and hasbin ALL share these traits, with many double standards depending on the character in the show. I feel like while rep is Great, focusing fully on that and less on the character as a person outside of their sexual identity isn’t a great way to approach any queer character 😅 I do genuinely like a few characters from each show! But I feel like the idea is cool but it could be handled so much better 😭😭 so yeah basically a lot of what u said! It’s nice to hear a take that isn’t so aggressive and views pros/cons ! Have a great day :D

[@agenuinefreakofnature]

Thank you for your feedback! And yeah, I agree 100%.

[@NullAmbition]

Nice Moe pfp

[@intea_soul9839]

I’m pansexual and the amount of pansexuals who are basically “I’ll sleep with anyone” just makes me fell uncomfortable. Husker is fine but I feel like Viv is gonna ruin him soon.

[@CLUDEEY]

Fr :(, cause the worst part for me these characters had so much potential for queer representation that is actually appreciated , but now queer people as a whole is suffering from this too

[@skull_333x2]

Nooooooooo Vivz get away from the grumpy cat-

[@Eqha67]

Owl house does it better, because the sexuality factor of the characters isn't the apart of the plot. But instead apart of how the world is built.

[@GlowCat135]

im sorry am i missing somone where has one of the charecters sexuallitys been a part OF THE FUCKING PLOT (im sorry im getting hostile ive had a bad day today its not about you) maybe angel btu his gaynes isnt important eh could be bi or straigh annd it would be simaler

[@creampuff85]

As an aromantic/pansexual person me hearing Valentino was pan is just WHAT like hell no we don’t want Val to also represent the pan community for me I just hate how sexual all the pan characters are in hazbin hotel and helluva boss like blitz I mean it was nice to see a main protagonist be pan since we barely see any pan characters in media but when he started making sex jokes and being all sexual was….something but when it came to husk he was some nice representation as our whole personality isn’t just sex jokes and fucking everyone that breathes.

[@agenuinefreakofnature]

yeah, for sure. like no being pansexual does not mean your whole personality is sex 😭😭😭

[@Rosaria--Church]

As another Pansexual Arromantic person, i don't care if he is Pansexual (he is my favourite character) since he wouldn't be accepted in any community anyway, it's just the way how it makes their whole personality... Valentino can be chill sometimes but they make him way more sex-hungry that is irritating.

[@Dolly_Dot.Ocean.]

I don’t think Val being pan is relevant tbh…it’s not like Vivzie is saying that pan ppl are predators. I think that’s kind of a stretch tbh. He doesn’t ‘represent’ pan people, he represents predators and happens to be pan

[@LipikaM-ze7ol]

Val is my fav character, he's design is just so beautiful.

[@Ilikeeatingnailsuwu]

That’s like saying an abuser can’t be pan bro…

[@bonzobeanzzz]

I'm a bi (male leaning, but im ace) dude and i just wanted to say i HATE stolas, ppl act like being a seg pest was so boyboss of him but it wasnt, idc if he was abused by his wife but i understand how trapped he was, idc if blitzo wanted it or not STOLAS GOT NO AN ANSWER MULTIPLE TIMES!!!!

[@sillieinyrcity]

THISSS

[@ana.wordswordswords]

i will never get over that one of her ONLY lesbian characters is angry/mean-ish, and named VAGGIE. 😭😭😭

[@owlmoth5481]

She is only sapphic queer tho. But her name is fucking vile.

[@MissMiseri]

Sallie Mae is a trans lesbian. But she's a very minor character.

[@LilCinnamonRoll2006]

I’ve said it before, but if Blitz was a woman EVERYONE would be up in arms because it’s an abusive man controlling a woman of a lower station, degrading her, and tossing her aside when he doesn’t get what he wants. But since Blitz is a man, it’s somehow okay?? It’s fine because it’s gay?? Get real, it’s toxic and Stolas is an asshole, not some small gay bean.

[@aleksabanjevic8316]

Ik ppl are gonna disagree, but the way stolas was talking to blitz wasn't reflective of his genuine feelings or thoughts on him, the first time they met as adults, blitz was trying to steal the book, so to distract stolas, he flirted aggressively, thus, stolas thought that that was what blitz was into and actually liked, and the reason he didn't stop when blitz showed he was angry was because he thought that that was role play, because the first time he told him stop it, he continued to sleep with him, it was mixed signals. I'm not blaming stolas or blitz BTW, just pointing out that where they started was extremely messed up and confusing. After ozzies where stolas started to question their arragment, he started being less hypersexual and creepy with him (except for that one scene in s2e2 but honestly that episode sucks), many of his texts were him trying to apologise.... Badly... And not even taking acctual accountability... But he wasn't treating blitz like dirt, and, when they "broke up", yes, stolas was WAAAAAY to quick to cut things off and didn't give blitz a chance to explain himself after the first misunderstanding, it was a bad thing on his end, but, it is understandable why he did it (understanding why, and defending it are not the same thing), he was paranoid the whole time about the situation and was afraid of anything bad happening, and at the smallest road block, he would bail. Yes, stolas definitely has some issues, there are many bad things he does he isn't aware of (str8 up saying "when have I ever looked down on you", while TECHNICALLY, MAYBE true from his perspective.... bruh, your role play clearly gave that impression, like come on dude 💀) But there is one thing I will edit is messed up fully, how the deal was formed, by stolas spying on blitz in a life or death situation and making the deal... Like I don't mind his role play, that spawned from a misunderstanding, and he probably could save blitz easily from the murder family, but like.... The spaying and making a deal in a stressful situation? Like, realistically, blitz probably would have agreed anyway, but still that was messed up, creepy and manipulative... Stolas was originally going to be a villain, and I think that whole bit was a left over when he was still seen as a villain by the writers, that's the only way I can sleep at night with that scene existing.

[@sand_eater101]

I get that SA victims can become hypersexual as a trauma response, and I'd know because I've been there, but Angel is just sexually harassing EVERYONE. I'd have no issue with this if it was more subtle and happened way more rarely, but it doesn't. Every second of screentime Angel, if he's not harassing Husk or Al then chances are he's either in a place where they literally aren't there, or he's just "in a mood". I saw someone say Viv isn't a chcaracter writer, she's an OC creator, and it's scarily accurate.

[@Batz-on-paws]

One thing that would make me a bit more okay with it is if it got called out and actually had consequences to him, like people not wanting to be around him or getting visibly uncomfortable near him. Viv seems to be saying "he's traumatized, you can't blame him!" Abuse victims can become abusers, Vivienne. It's not okay for an SA victim to harrass others, hypersexuality as a coping mechanism doesn't justify it either I'm an SA survivor. I have bad coping mechanisms, both from that and other shit. I'd rather people tell me I'm being weird and crossing boundaries than them just going "oh that's just how he acts"

[@witchyimp]

anyone else notice how helluva boss doesnt have ANY lesbian couples??? a TON of gay (mlm) couples though...! fetishizing much..

[@marmarlc]

IKR 😭

[@SymphonyDaBeanD]

Late af but I think the only WLW thing in helluva was two characters making out in the anti blitz party 😭😭💀

[@zabirdy181]

Something abt representation Arcane did splendously was that all the sexualities spectrum were just... THERE. Everything is normal in Runeterra (I'm going to assume that's what the land Arcane takes place in is called, Lol players don't YOU DARE come at me abt it, I don't care) gays, straights, lesbians, trans, you name it, Cailyln's sexuality is treated as naturally as heterosexuality, Vik and Jayce are 'Partners', Claggor was subtly pinning for Spike in Season 2, Ambessa LOVES twink boys, there's NO sexuality discourse and it's SO REFRESHING, ppl just EXIST, HB and HH are just what Tumblr thinks Queer ppl are (Which is rampant stereotypical caricatures, I could be here ALL DAY listing them but you get my point, everything related to Viv is flat and EXHAUSTING)

[@StarrStee]

OH FUCK NO. Looked into the comments before the video even started and immediately regret it. val is PAN?! so no one's safe?..😢😢😢

[@kagaminerinmeatball]

FR GET THIS BALD MOTH A-A-A-AWAY

[@BFDIfan-w9x]

NO NO NO IM ALSO PAN

[@BFDIfan-w9x]

IM NOT SHARING A SEXUALITY WITH A DEMON MOTH

[@revarevalo2115]

Well Husk is pan?

[@circuitfish]

"no ones safe" LMAOOOSJHJKSJ

[@no_one4584]

I am pan but i am also ace and its just hurts how vivzie showed pansexual people. Maybe thats why bee is one of my fav characters but i didnt even know she was pan 😅

[@agenuinefreakofnature]

Yeah exactly! Justice for pan aces ✊

[@no_one4584]

@@agenuinefreakofnature Yes justice for pan aces!!!✊

[@Jessiepinkman400]

Tf is pan ace???

[@no_one4584]

@@Jessiepinkman400 a pansexual person on asexual spectrum i advice reading about both things

[@LipikaM-ze7ol]

​@@Jessiepinkman400pansexual person that doesn't care about gender when it comes to romance , but doesn't like s€x

[@KuiperStarzz]

I'm an aroace person and the way that Alastor is written and is treated by the crew has bothered me for a while since I feel like it plays into the idea of aspec people being an "invisible" identity, where we're not really allowed to be ourselves 100% of the time in queer spaces the way that other identities may be able to. It feels like whenever there is an asexual character, unless they're like Todd Chavez and they have an entire story explicitly about their relationship with sex, there's always a certain level of scrutiny toward them and questioning on whether or not they're ACTUALLY asexual and aromantic because a lot of writers like to use plausible deniability for aroace people or avoid explicitly confirming it in canon. And this kind of debate happens all the time in fandom spaces with Alastor with people arguing whether or not he actually is aromantic, or whether or not he actually is sex repulsed, or whether or not it's ethical to make NSFW content with him. I don't really have an opinion on that last part since people are going to make that kind of material of anything and everything on the planet, but it annoys me so much that the nature of our sex lives (if we have one) and the minute details of our identity are being picked apart until they are deemed acceptable enough. It doesn't leave us with any concrete representation when writers depict us in undignifying ways or when fan spaces disregard the representation at whole just to continue questioning us. The crew has danced around actually referring to Alastor's asexuality or aromanticism in canon for a long time, and for the most part all we got were depictions of it outside of canon that play into his sex repulsion as a joke rather than depicting it with dignity. Four years after the pilot and the only mention of his asexuality we have gotten in canon is just a joke that Rosie makes about him being an "ace in the hole", which Alastor doesn't even understand. I can't really accept Oktavia or Mammon as ace rep for a similar reason, since it's confirmed outside of canon and carries that same level of plausible deniability, so people will do what they always do and pick that apart too. I don't understand why we keep being left out of explicit depictions of queerness in media while other characters of other identities are allowed to identify themselves in a way that is empowering or dignifying for them.

[@lowqualityfrogimage]

i have a feeling vivzie has a “thing” for mlm couples, with the lack of wlw couples but the absurd amount of mlm couples makes me worried she might… y’know

[@HelloThere-babygirl]

I personally feel represented with Alastor. Every ace character in other shows are pushed to the side because they can’t be used for romance or sex, whilst Alastor is one of the main characters and really interesting and cool. It’s the only time where I’ve felt represented. I personally like the show.

[@Batz-on-paws]

Man, I wish I could relate... I just hate how the fandom overly sexualizes him. I swear, some of them do it to spite him being ace Yes ace people can be sexual, can we please have an ace who isn't tho, y'all (the fandom) don't need to have everyone horny all the time

[@HelloThere-babygirl]

@@Batz-on-paws yeah, I hate that about the fandom. The excuse of asexual people can still be sexual is a very poor one since in cannon he’s shown to not be interested in sex and it takes away representation of asexuals who don’t feel sexual attraction.

[@McMerlin11]

It just kinda sucks that he’s so crazy and murderous. I see it as perpetuating the stereotype that aro/ace people are cold and unloving just because we don’t feel certain types of attraction

[@GlowCat135]

@Batz-on-paws mostly if i ever do it (and he is the sole reason i realized i was bi and not a lesbian) i see it as, yes ace people can be sexual... and.... what does that have to do with me drawing this bunch of pixles without a shit? this isnt canon him in meny ways this isnt even alastor i like how he looks if you want i could make an oc who looks just like him to thirst over but that feels to complicated

[@caitlingoins2103]

Husk and Angel Dust should stay as a platonic friendly/brotherly relationship. i think making them a couple is going to be weird and ruin it.. I don't think Viv can fathom a non sexual relationship between characters

[@Its_lilyelizabeth]

as an asexual bi dude, I have very mixed feelings on this as well. I feel like all the bi rep in helluva boss is really well done (despite Moxxie and Loona being the only canonically bi characters) the trans rep is good, but I really wish they had more mixed representation. Sallie Mae is an example of an extremely well done trans character, I wish I could see nonbinary imps, genderfluid imps, and just more off the binary rep in general the pan rep is absolutely atrocious (except for husk) all the pan characters are lumped together as hypersexual, a harmful stereotype that is commonly associated with pansexuals. Also, so many characters are pan to the point where I feel like some characters could have had lesser-known sexualities like omnisexual or maybe even poly, but instead we get the same cardboard-cut pan stereotypes. The aro/ace rep is practically nonexistent, at least i feel that it’s ignored far too much by the fandom. Alastor being aro/ace is constantly being shoved under the rug to ship him with others, Mammon is way too unlikable of a character for me to care about the fact that he’s ace, and I feel like making Octavia ace was just putting in minimal effort. She’s not in a canonical relationship, so let’s just make her ace! Because being aro is the exact same thing as being ace! (I know it’s not gonna happen, but I’d love to see Octavia in a purely romantic/platonic relationship) I feel that there are far more negatives than positive, and I haven’t even dived into the fact that every single character in HH or HB has the same snatched waist and twink body. For attempting to be such an “inclusive” show, I feel that both fumble very heavily.

[@g0ry_c4k3]

There's more canonically bi characters, Charlie, Sir Pentious, Cherri Bomb, and Vox.

[@g0ry_c4k3]

And also there's imps of all different genders, skin colors, and body types in the background

[@Batz-on-paws]

Until the show says otherwise, I will see Octavia as aroace because I too was an emo sad aroace teen once, and I love her for that

[@M1_1SHR00M]

this is amazing!! i do agree that the music should be a tad quieter though so it’s easier to hear you ^^

[@agenuinefreakofnature]

OMG WHAT????? Didn’t expect to see you here, lmao 😭 Thanks for the feedback!

[@grunkle_iz_incidentof_1978]

oh hey mushr00m what's up

[@Xezr4X]

hello!

[@YourKingPyro]

Warning in advance, this is a long read I'm a trans gay man, so idk if my opinion really would matter as much as a cis gay man (being trans, I haven't had a lot of experiences that cis gay men would) but I really don't like how Angel Dust is depicted, I don't think stereotypes should be completely removed from media, I think they do have a place and could be used for some interesting story telling purposes, such as Big Gay Al in South Park or all the stereotypes shown to us in Team Fortress 2, but I think what's important to note is the execution of how those stereotypes are presented to us, the two examples I gave are both from franchises which are extremely satirical and those stereotypes aren't at all depicted in a negative light (hell, South Park has been very pro-LGBT since it first started, the first episode Big Gay Al is featured in is about Stan accepting his dog for being gay, with Big Gay Al helping Stan come the conclusion that there's nothing wrong with that and that love is love, a very positive message) A lot of media also presents these stereotypes in a way to make fun of them and point out how ridiculous they are Plus there are gay men who do stereotypical things such as wear flashy clothes and act really femininely, which there's nothing wrong with at all the problem with Angel Dust is while he does show a lot of the sillier less harmful stereotypes he also displays the more negative ones, such as him constantly sexually harassing Husk (the show itself states that it is sexual harassment) and his character in general just implies that being gay is a sex thing, which is INCREDIBLY harmful the show doesn't present this in an entirely satirical way either (although a lot of his lines are jokes, I hate how angel dusk isn't allowed to be sexually assaulted but other characters like Husk and Sr Pentious are allowed to be for jokes?? disgusting) and while I do think there could be ways where his character could work (tone done the harassment if you want him to be more serious) it just... doesn't idk how to get my point across really it feels especially awful when you combine Angel Dust with how Blitzo and Stolas are written, their relationship is also full of negative stereotypes and comes down to gay relationships are just a sex thing (ofc they are trying to branch out their relationship more but I feel like the issues are still and always will be still relevant) the way Viv writes gay men and mlm relationships overall just disgusts me, stereotypes can be used for excellent story telling opportunities, but Viv either doesn't care to be careful or genuinely just is homophobic and believes in those stereotypes great video btw!! I think you need to work on your audio balancing (your voice is very quiet, especially compared to the music) plus you mumble quite a bit so it was hard to hear what you're saying and I think some of your writing is a bit awkward (such as mentioning husk and then repeatedly saying you're going to bring him up in the next segment, if it was earlier in the video you could have said something like "more on that later" but I think what would have been a smoother way to write that is mention husk last in that segment of the video and then use him to transition into the next segment), that's all stuff that will take time to practice doing and I do think you have the potential to make even better videos if you do choose to keep going with making these sorta vids!! this was a very good topic choice and I think you handled it very well, it's also lovely to see somebody bring it up as people don't really tend to talk about these issues in much detail like you have here!! normally people just say "viv's writing of gay relationships is harmful and fetishised" and that's it, while you gave a more wider look to the situation and covered how queer people are represented in her shows in general which is super refreshing to see although as important as it was for this to be discussed i do recommend being careful, you are minor and you are talking about an adult show, I do understand that viv has a large minor audience but shows are intended for adults and being a minor in adult spaces can be very dangerous, especially when you talk publicly about those spaces and you being a minor your art style is really lovely as well, i love your little sona guy, very cute design, and is that jonathon sims from the magnus archives?? very cute :DDD keep up the good work!!

[@agenuinefreakofnature]

hey, fellow trans dude! 😎 thanks for your comment, and yes I agree with the points you made 100%. sorry for the audio problems and my speaking issues, i mumble a lot when i read and it’s hard for me to not stutter a lot :( i will try to fix the volume if i make another video like this! and with the script, i agree. i wrote this about a month ago and didn’t make many revisions, which will definitely be another thing i can fix. yes, i know the shows are intended for an older audience, but because of the fact i was exposed to the hazbin hotel pilot when i was a lot younger, its kinda stuck with me and i just wanted to make a video on the topic! thanks for your comment and suggestions! 🫶 ALSO. YES. I LOVE THE MAGNUS ARCHIVES 😈

[@WLMapping]

nice

[@pokemongo-up3rq]

Viv is obviously a huge fujo, and i'm convinced making chaggie canon was a concession and a way to deflect criticism.

[@GlowCat135]

no theyv been canon for like a long time now before anyone critisised the hsow there was no one complaining whaen the pilot canme out only when it got big

[@cl0wnhearted]

1:52 THANK YOU. I'VE LITERALLY SEEN NO ONE ELSE POINT THIS OUT. The fact that there are only 2 lesbians from her main series together is odd. I feel like both shows focus on gay couples, and that's saying something when one of the main characters is in a wlw relationship. Viv probably has a ya0i fetish or something

[@cl0wnhearted]

Also, if you're gonna have pansexual characters, at least write them well. A lot of her characters are stereotypes. Someone needs to help her write characters smh

[@Kurkanos]

What always bothered me is that in Helluva Boss there are lots of men liking men, some women and men liking each other, but NEVER women liking women. Even the female characters that are bi/pan are only shown in love with men.

[@beetleparty]

this may be an unpopular opinion, but as a male attracted trans man, i think theres no such thing as "lgbt representation," just lgbt being made more aware of and characters happening to be lgbt. i dont like using the term "lgbt representation," as that implies that lgbt characters in media kinda of represent or define lgbt people like me when thats not really true. i dont really like appointing anyone or anything as the "representative" of me and other lgbt people, as all of us are different and have unique views and perspectives regarding the world. "representation" just doesnt feel like an accurate way of putting it to me

[@beetleparty]

tl;dr i dont want "representation," i just want lgbt couples to be made out like any other straight couple

[@Elidessinnn]

I agree!

[@dulcemendoza3526]

Whatever

[@GlowCat135]

thank you

[@randomasshumanbeing2078]

The fact that her only ace characters are a greedy dirtbag who only cares about money, and a serial killer speaks volumes. Just glad Octavia is the only positive one.

[@ShriahAber]

The problem is one trans girl Sally may who. Is backround chara 2 lesbian Vaggie has 0 character without Charlie 6 bisexuals Moxxie and sir pen Are punching bag and never get respect and being made fun of Charlie is a childish incompetent Person sometimes treat her guess with favouritism and isn't a good princess and millie has no character with moxxie Vox is just a villain who has comic realif and cherry bomb was supposed be good friend to angle but they turm her bad influence Most of gays expect of fizz Stolas treats blitzo like a sex toy and neglect his own daughter to be with him he and blizo were childhood for 1 day that not enough for them to be friends And angle sexal harassed husk and angle was getting harassed by val and Al even Alstor is ace Most of pans except for husk and blizo are overly sexal and sexal harassors like no why val on pride flag when he sexal harassed angle No genderfliuds or non binaries enter sex characters This is worst take on pride flags I know vivziepop is trying but this inconsistency and really sad on her part Angle dust should never do that husk he doing the same thing, what, val is doing to him ace sexal A cannibalistic psychopath and embodiment of Greed? The only good asexual is octavia

[@Shinjis_Chair]

As a gay guy I deffo agree w/ u. Plus the whole "UwU soft im just a poor sad gay boy who can't do any wronggg :[" Is infuriating :/ I also don't like how ppl ignore characters bad actions because they're gay (StolASS) The treatment and portrayal of gay men is just.... Eughhhh.... Its super uncomfortable and icky as hell...

[@CannabisCat]

It feels like viv fetishizes gay men

[@Plushinfernalii]

Oh 100%

[@kat-fishh]

She definitely does, just look at the stolitz relationship.

[@problem3412]

the pinup merch spells this out EASILY and im disturbed its taking mfs so long to figure it out

[@ShriahAber]

She 100% is true look at, stolitz 😊

[@CastorRae]

vivziepop needs better lesbian rep in HB but please don't comment like "oh they're only SAPPHIC" especially if you're not a lesbian yourself. people's orientations can change and them having dated men in the past doesn't devalue them being lesbians and feels very gold star lesbian-y. i'm saying this as a lesbian myself, don't try to undermine them because they're not explicity male-repulsed or whatever. the show needs better lesbian representation but that doesn't mean devalueing what little rep we do get.

[@Rusecorroption]

This is the part where we all say ‘being weak and/or being feminine does not make or define a person as gay , Vivzie’ in unison. Because Fizz had so much potential for being his own character and they turned him into silly billy bottom boy. Ozzie does NOT need to treat this dude like a pet or an immobile baby. He is capable of EXISTING without his hand being held. And..not every character has to be gay. Especially because this takes place in hell , brings back the ‘all gays go to hell’ bullshit I grew up hearing. I only remember Nifty being straight , and she’s just batshit crazy….like we can have a sweet healthy straight relationship..RIGHT..?

[@Clown_eating_fruity_pebbles]

Guys, guys, guys. People of any sexuality can be a bad person! Woah theres a really bad guy and hes... hes pansexual?! No way! That means bad that means she makes all pans bad!

[@Actualbowlofsoup]

@@Clown_eating_fruity_pebbles the op mentions husk, so i think they know that lol

[@Clown_eating_fruity_pebbles]

@@Actualbowlofsoup that was an example, man. 😭 sorry if I made it confusing

[@Actualbowlofsoup]

@@Clown_eating_fruity_pebbles its good 💀

[@sillieinyrcity]

kinda sus when u make every pansexual in ur show a bad person tho 💀 kinda makes it look ur homophobic or something!! that’s crazy?!

[@Clown_eating_fruity_pebbles]

@@sillieinyrcity there is ONE pansexual in the show that's a bad person. ONE.

[@blustew.]

I remember seeing a clip of Viv mentioning Alastor is aroace but she says he’s only ace for the shippers

[@Ytshorts_users_are_braindead]

Clip pls?

[@guess_ill_just_uhhh]

it's funny how people keep calling viv's queer characters representation, while it's obviously her fetish gaze

[@Simpfor2Dcharacters]

one thing i hate is ppl saying Lucifer is gay ☠️ like be prob like bi or pan or whatever but not gay just cus he looks like a twink doesnt mean he's gay he still lovs lilith and he literally said "oh my golly you like girls? So do i" ive actually heard someone say lucifer was gay (it was a radioapple shipper)

[@suspiciousstar7547]

He literally has an ex-wife who he spent years in love with, so I doubt he's gay. Straight, bi, or pan makes more sense to me.

[@Simpfor2Dcharacters]

@suspiciousstar7547 ik i said to a radioapple shipper and the called me slurs and sent me de@th threats 😭

[@StraightUsername]

Honestly, I prefer him being straight, cuz I like the idea of someone being twinkish but also STRAIght.....or maybe I just love lucifer with Lilith ^⁠_⁠_⁠_⁠_⁠_⁠_⁠_⁠_⁠_⁠^

[@Simpfor2Dcharacters]

@@StraightUsername i love lucilith ok but like lucifer is literally definition of male wife tho a male wife means A man in a relationship with a dominant, assertive woman like idk what ppl say short king is malewife to me😭😭😭

[@StraightUsername]

​@@Simpfor2Dcharacters Yep, I can see what you mean, I prefer their relationship more as a...like Gomez and Morticia Addams type, just madly in love. Also making one partner more dominant than the other sounds soo...fetishy ರ⁠_⁠ರ

[@Bourbon_and_Bouquets]

im pansexual, no way i'm h0rny every second, im not attracted to a lot of people, pansexual simply means attracted to every gender, not "i think everyone is hot"

[@elenagrassi-sb4ly]

i really agree on what you said in this video but... HOW IS NO ONE TALKING ABOUT ALASTOR BEING ONLY ACE AND NOT AROACE BECAUSE VIVZIE POP THINKS THAT LETTING PEOPLE SHIP HIM IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE DESPERATELY NEEDED AROACE REP IN MEDIA??? HOW IS EVERYONE OK WITH THAT? in a live stream they asked her if alastor was also aromantic and she said something like: " i don't feel like saying it because many people whould be upset about it." LIKE WTF??? if a charachter is of some sexuality THE CREATOR should made that sexuality being respected. not saybg something like that. she didn't have any problem sayng all the other characters sexualities but since alastor is shipped with half of the cast and many fans sexualise him she didn't want to say it and "make people upset"? really?

[@meh9623]

Aromantic people get BARELY any rep. I've seen a bunch of asexual characters but I honestly don't think I could name a single aromantic character. The fact that he was supposed to be AROace but Viv decided that the shipping is more important makes my blood boil. Can we get one fucking aromantic character? I'm so sorry all the shippers will be sad that they cannot ship that one character out of millions of other characters who are not aromantic. Fuck me dude I just want some rep and I want the fans to be respectful and acknowledging. It's homophobic to ship a lesbian with a man or a gay man with a woman but it's okay to these people to ship an aroace character who hasn't shown any interest in sex or romance. Sorry for ranting in your replies lol I'm just mad over the non existent rep we get and how it's always ignored by the fandom anyway

[@Sillest_goober]

@@meh9623 This is the realest statement ive ever heard

[@SheetGhostWithBones]

Hes not aro bc hes the Tumblr Sexyman. /j (but not really, I think) His only personality (from what I've seen, I don't watch the show) is that hes this cunning, suave, tall man whos always up to mischief or something. His design screams "thirst over me, im hot" at least to me. I don't think Viv wants aro characters bc then she can't ship them around with others.

[@WeDieInJuly]

She needs money :)

[@elenagrassi-sb4ly]

@@WeDieInJuly right 🙃

[@CrazyAboutClassics]

The only one I can understand with the pan sterotypes is Asmodeus. He IS the embodiment of Lust, after all.

[@coolguy1648]

I don’t know why people constantly sexualize gay people. Like leave us alone 😭

[@VoiEssence]

As a pan asexual (and also aromantic but thats less related) it just makes me so upset when people take “attracted to all genders” and run with “will f*ck anything” like no. Theres a difference, people. Get with it. Anyway unrelated to the video but i love the magnus archives fanart! Jon looks so cute

[@DreamsDeemsFF7]

I didn't care about the other sexualities, I was just happy to see ace characters as an ace person who barely sees that representation in other shows. :D

[@grey.themusiccat]

same

[@Batz-on-paws]

I have mixed feelings on the ace rep but that's mainly thanks to the fandom. But yea, just seeing some rep for us feels nice

[@DreamsDeemsFF7]

@@Batz-on-paws I don't know WHY people are like this. Doesnt matter which fandom, people always go more honk wonk with the ace characters. And someone on TikTok said that it's not bad to simp for someone who is only ace. (The video was about Alastor.)

[@AlienboyO.O]

I think Fizz and Stolas being theatrical is related to their upbringing, I hated that the sign “I’ll fvck anything” that Chaz was holding like you have to know how awful that is

[@TheUniqueen999]

Chaz was implied to be a bad character, the show is trying to make you hate him. He's not *supposed* to be good gay rep because he's not supposed to be good at all

[@Guanglai_Kangyiii]

​@@TheUniqueen999he's not even implied to be a bad person, he is explicitly so pathetic, untrustworthy and straight up dumb.

[@Bremblemax]

​@@TheUniqueen999you think maybe he shouldn't be in the positive pride post then if he's not supposed to be good?

[@TheUniqueen999]

@@Bremblemax Why would they not include all the characters, still? Sure, it can be meant to be just positive, but they probably also wanted to share what everyone's sexualities were.

[@KoolKitty100]

i remember feeling icky after watching hazbin s1 and while angel and husk and all the male queer characters got plenty of relationship focus/sexualisation, charlie and vaggie - AN ACTUAL COUPLE - got jack. i dont want them to be overly sexualised/fetishised but for a show with such a focus on sex it felt soooo weird they got nothing. its giving fujoshi.

[@angel.985]

Vivziepop's way to rapresent mature contents is to constantly make it about sex, bad words, free violence. It's like a twelve-year-old trying hard to imagine what adult life is like. There is no real emotional maturity in her shows, it's all about sexual jokes and senseless violence. Even the most serious moments lose importance because it's impossible to make a mature speech or show an important issue without throwing ten different swear words in your face that could easily have been left out.

[@witnessprotectionprogram]

I really don't like Stolitz. If Blitz was a girl, I feel like a main topic of discussion would be Stolas blatently taking (sexual) advantage of a woman who's smaller, weaker and in less of a position of authority, and chances are most people wouldn't be alright with it. But because Blitz is a dude, there's such little discussion about that, and I feel like it's just reinforcing negative stereotypes.

[@laeciie]

I'm pansexual and on the aroace spectrum, I HATE how pansexuals are always sexualised and labeled as the type of person to "f*ck anyone" as it's an upsetting stereotype. Vivziepop then playing into that by adding characters that behave like said stereotypes in such a popular show is just spreading more misinformation about pansexuals and the queer community

[@suspiciousstar7547]

Pansexuality should be labeled as "loving someone, regardless of their gender" rather than "I will bang anyone". While pansexuality is a spectrum, that saying feels a bit icky.

[@Got_Issues]

Nah Fizz is so infantalized he makes me cringe

[@SproutsworldOC]

Vivzepop is literally just a watt pad user who got their own shows.

[@pipit_exe]

Why is nobody talking about the SEVERE lack of nonbinary characters. PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong, but I literally cannot think of one of her nonbinary characters off the top of my head.

[@stutterpunk9573]

im queer and im glad there are queer people who dont suffer from addiction or abuse or trauma, but every fellow trans person ive ever hung out with struggles with sh and addiction for example. also i am a survivor as well, and that really really hurts me that someone hates angel, because hes literally me but a man. again sorry it makes people uncomfortable and im glad you cant relate from experience but its called crying for help. its like weve never heard of hypersexualizing themselves, which i think is the most common form of response to sexual trauma. im a trans woman but i was a gay man for a long time and its stupid to get upset over unsavory qualities. queer people arent angels because theyre queer, yes there are overly sexual creepy people obviously. and its honestly rediculous to tie together hypersexualizing yourself and their queer identity, to me thats projecting internalized phobias on your (not you specifically) part. also i love fizz, what do you mean hes not deep, did you miss the episode where he got trapped with blitz or something lol anyway tldr; its not fetishizing queer people, its giving something for queer people who struggle with fetishizing themselves and struggle with any form of addiction in a harmful manner something to relate to in mainstream media.

[@agenuinefreakofnature]

hi, i’m really sorry to hear that you’ve struggled with all that :( i’m a trans dude, (a younger one, so i haven’t transitioned yet) and i’ve never struggled with sh, so i don’t actually know what that’s like. the point of the video wasn’t to mean that you can’t have a feminine, hypersexual, or addicted gay character, but just that having every single gay character be an archetype gay man isn’t the way to go. i agree 100% it’s important to showcase characters with addiction and mental health issues as much as anybody, and im sorry if it came off otherwise. again, sorry you’ve dealt with that stuff, i hope you’re ok! ❤

[@stutterpunk9573]

@@agenuinefreakofnature thank you sm for understanding, definitely don't disagree with you that it shouldn't be nearly every character haha just wanted to speak my mind a lil especially about angel because I relate to him so much :P

[@Batz-on-paws]

Gonna start this with saying I have nothing against you liking Angel, if you find comfort in him... that's good. It's good to find comfort in media. My main problem with Angel isn't the hypersexuality, it's the lack of consequences. He sexually harasses others, and the show itself uses the term sexual harrassement when talking about it (I believe it was Vaggie, somewhere in the first 3 episodes I think?). But instead of taken seriously, Angel never gets any consequences for that. Bad coping mechanisms exist and there is nuance to it, but being a victim does not excuse someone of harassing others, ever. He should be called out for that behavior and helped to find better ways to cope and heal. Sexually harassing a person is not crying for help, it's a vile thing to do no matter who does it. I'm a victim. I have bad coping mechanisms. I'd rather people tell me when I'm crossing boundaries instead of framing it as "oh he's traumatized, so this is just how he copes". A person can be hypersexual and not harass others or cross any boundaries, but Angel is written in a way that excuses his actions. It's not a good message to send, at all.

[@SakuraTea69]

As a pan person, hearing that Valentino was canonically pan (if that’s what you were saying) actually made my jaw drop Edit: also I don’t mind Blitzø being pan as much as I mind someone like Chaz. Blitzø is a pretty solid character imo, but ofc not everyone has to agree with me

[@agenuinefreakofnature]

yes fr 😭😭

[@KeekeeHII]

well. he'd like anyone due to him being uh... yeah. i'd see why. i wasnt exactly surprised tbh.

[@SakuraTea69]

@@KeekeeHII fair, I just hate him, and Chaz or whatever his name is

[@KeekeeHII]

@@SakuraTea69 fair enough. (chaz sucks)

[@SakuraTea69]

@@KeekeeHII agreed

[@Nightman221k]

It really comes off as a yaoi fangirl from the mid/late 2000s with the top/bottom fixation. It’s very obnoxious and kind of demeaning.

[@ITSPINKANDYELLOW]

THANK YOU,this has been so annoying as a gay guy My more detail issues is that well, vizzipop just doesn't know how to write gay guys without sexualizing them and showing off her yaoi fetish.

[@ProjectKEJM]

While watching the speedpaint, I was thinking "haha, that looks kinda like Jonathan Sims!" Then I realized that it IS Jonathan Sims head archivist of the Magnus Institute, London LOVE the art and the discussion (and the podcast mentioned, highly recommended) btw!!

[@agenuinefreakofnature]

Magnus archives is 🔥🔥🔥

[@fincloud31]

EXACTLY WHAT I WAS THINKING I was like “huh those scars really make them look like Jon” AND THEN IT WAS the fixation never rests 😔😔😔

[@beholdingsarchivist]

I HAD THE SAME THOUGHT

[@breadandtoastisgood]

SAME, I thought I was going crazy until I saw the (Martin is laughing his ass off), TMA is just 👏👏👏

[@RayTheEmoGoth]

One thing that kinda annoys me which isnt exactly abt the sexualities of the characters but im still kinda annoyed by it is how samey the mlm relationships are. Stolitz, HuskerDust and Fizz x Asmodeus can literally all be summed up as: "Pansexual dom boyfriend whos got a tough shell but is actually a softie x overly sexual power bottom twink gay boyfriend." Like if it happened once or twice, I really wouldn't care, but it happened three times with EVERY SINGLE mlm relationship (im pretty sure if you delete some things from that you could even kinda try and fit Chaz x Moxxie or Val x AngelDust into it). Idk if Vivzie just likes them that way or if she doesnt know how to write mlm relationships diffrently, but either way, i dont like it. Like can we get some gayxgay or bixbi at least? Is that too much to ask??

[@NUMBERONEWINTERFAN]

as a trans person, i don't really like how trans people are never rlly given the spotlight. i also don't see a lot of transmasc rep, which i find weird.

[@Vincente.Krokodil]

idk if its true, but ive heard about vivzie being transphobic towards trans men

[@Dr4g0n_Dr4wz_03]

Also the only Transmasc rep we have isn't even voiced by a trans man like with Sallie Mae. But instead with a Cis man-

[@agenuinefreakofnature]

PETITION FOR A TRANSMASC MAIN CHARACTER FR ‼️‼️‼️

[@Rosaria--Church]

You mean the another 6 characters on Helluva or is there any trans people on Hazbin Hotel i don't know about..?

[@puppydogs68]

@@agenuinefreakofnature what about Baxter from Hazbin hotel? Only female anglerfish have the hanging light bulb.

[@PeteWentzlivesinmycloset]

@@puppydogs68 it’s probably just a character design imo

[@TheUniqueen999]

@@puppydogs68 Would you be able to tell he was an anglerfish otherwise?

[@sailorstar3148]

I just wanna say as a queer person myself that none of these characters are meant to represent the entire community they can be their own characters without being held to a standard that people want them to. (Also, I have Angel Dust as a comfort character for personal reasons)

[@sailorstar3148]

Also, I know that y’all wanna point out the stereotypes in these characters, but that’s not their whole character like Angel being a feminine gay guy ( I have seen and met feminine gay guys) that’s not the only thing about him like he said to Husk “ like I said you don’t know me sex ain’t the only thing I’m good at”

[@Actualbowlofsoup]

@@sailorstar3148 I think it's more of the repetitiveness of the queer characters (especially the men) being overtly sexual

[@sailorstar3148]

⁠@@Actualbowlofsoup These characters are adults so they are going to be sexualized. And don’t get me wrong I get what you guys are saying, but this is how I view these characters they ain’t perfect and I love them.

[@Actualbowlofsoup]

@@sailorstar3148 I get that adult will be sexual but it's the repetitiveness of it. The amount of immature gay sex jokes just comes off as young teenagers who obsess over gay men(even if their queer themselves). This is worsened by the designs who are often (let's be honest) Tumblr sexy man esque

[@giant-enemy-spider]

The canon sapphic couple in Hazbin being ignored and underdeveloped compared the the mlm ones is so fucking horrible

[@genericinsight]

Viv confirmed that season two is going to focus more on Charlie and Vaggie!

[@giant-enemy-spider]

@@genericinsight THANK GOD

[@alex_ze_awsumyt5484]

As an ace person myself, Alastor being the sole ace rep in Hazbin Hotel really put me off considering the fact that he’s a cannibalistic serial killer 😭 Ngl at least Octavia is good ace rep in Helluva Boss

[@pjdixon6199]

Why does every fictional Ace character have to be a good person?

[@alex_ze_awsumyt5484]

@@pjdixon6199 I’m not saying that they all have to be, my main issue with Alastor is the fact that he’s the ONLY ace character in Hazbin Hotel, and he’s a terrible person. Ace characters can be villains, but the fact that the only ace character in this show and is portrayed as a heartless, evil monster perpetuates some very harmful stereotypes about ace people.

[@scrappykoko4871]

I actually like the ace representation in the Helluvaverse. I know it's not perfect but at least we get few more CANON ace characters. Also I really enjoy Alastor, Mammon and Octavia whenever they appear in the show, the characters may be shitty people but I think they're well written characters

[@alex_ze_awsumyt5484]

@@scrappykoko4871 I’m glad you do! ^_^

[@MrAuthor3DS]

@@pjdixon6199 Hrm, not necessarily. Floofty Fizzlebean is one of the more popular characters in Bugsnax, and they're a snooty, reckless mad scientist (who does care about Grumpuskind in general).

[@helloppl3073]

I do think vivzie’s writing is shit and sometimes the characters feel a little fetishy. But a lot of y’all need to understand that one character cannot possibly be representative of a whole community. Also I don’t agree that all queer characters HAVE to be good people because again that just reduces the character to being queer. Characters like moth guy (I forgot his name) is a horrible person who just happens to be pan. I highly doubt it’s because they wanted to make him stereotypical because him being pan isn’t even explicitly stated in the show. Also some ppl do fall into the aforementioned stereotypes and that’s fine, ppl like tat do exist. Wats not fine is to make all characters a walking stereotype without personality

[@lifeisadrag7705]

I agree, I have a lot of issues with her writing, but I don't agree on the basis of this. I view them as characters first before their sexuality and or identity.

[@Plushinfernalii]

I’d get that if angel’s whole personality wasn’t just “say gex and I’m sad”. Such a huge stereotype of gay men you are being intentionally daft if you think it’s harmless…

[@helloppl3073]

@@Plushinfernalii girl u clearly didn’t read my comment. I was specifically referring to characters like the moth guy not angel. Did I not mention making walking stereotypes is not ok in my comment?

[@fireinthefreezer]

I'm pansexual and viv's view on pansexuality is questionable. just because I have the ability to be attracted to anyone no matter what their gender is doesn't mean I want to have sex with everyone I see. 😭 the fact that this is a constant thing is so weird to me.

[@cyanity1017]

Honestly i really feel like asexual characters are the ones that get screwed over in both shows. We have mammon being a flat out horrible person which I've noticed is a bad stereotype in terms of asexual villain characters, vivzie doesn't care about people pointing out how creepy it is that shippers dismiss alastor's asexuality and constantly draw nsfw, and with octavia not even she's safe because apparently brandon rogers said something really creepy and disgusting about her character. I cant remember what but i think it's out there somewhere. And as an asexual person who has been sexualized before, i really hate how vivziepop just lets this slide.

[@CatherinesDoodles2K1]

As a Helluva And Hazbin fan myself, I would say it’s great to see plenty of queer representations, even besides pan and gay representations, but I feel like the “pan & gay pair” type of thing (mostly Pan-gay relationship) may be a little overused at some level (just a little bit, not a lot). For a few examples I figure characters like Stolas, Vassago, Andrealphus and/or even Fizz could’ve been represented as Bisexual characters or something less represented like a Polysexual character just for a new form of representation.

[@cookiezcartoons3587]

I understand as a gay man, stolas and Angel dust are extremely hypersexual and as someone who does enjoy these characters, they feel like they were written my a cishet girl in terms of gay rep

[@rocketship3396]

Just imho, I feel like AD was deliberately playing into the hypersexual stereotype, he even says at some point it's who he needs to be. Husk points out it's a fake persona as well. It's like how some people feel a lot of pressure to be a stereotype (women=feminine, men = masculine, asian=smart, black=athletic etc) even if they don't like it. I don't think AD is that feminine either, but self-destructive af. I hated the Poison song, it's a poor representation of an abusive relationship, but I can kinda get the feeling behind it, where you're terrified to leave, think you're be nothing without them, and if you try to pull away, suddenly they're sweet and caring and/or they put the blame on you, and try to make you feel shame/guilt so that they take advantage of you again. ie they get you to come crawling back.

[@silentbanana209]

I have no clue why husker is pans. To me he feels like aroace or straight. He just feels like a caring grandpa (I love Keith David so that last part makes sense lol) Also I felt like fizz was just a funny guy who didn’t really need a honestly healthy and entertaining relationship or a confirmed sexuality, but hey that’s just me.

[@Bamb.]

I agree, i love the shows and all, but i dont really like the creator, and if she made less controversial decisions and was less stereotypical, it would make both shows alot better :[

[@WeevilWrangler]

I think the key issue with these characters is that it's just tell don't show. I think what Helluva did with Sally Mae was good cuz it was show don't tell, I liked that, but others feel like their sexuality is their selling point :-(

[@mossballus]

Also not to mention Alastor being ace (and very likely aro), but he's quite literally a sociopathic sadistic serial killer.