Vlog #12 Training + physical vs desk jobs

[@alpinejonny]

Great post Dave, as always! In 2013 I moved from the city to a small town in the Canadian Rockies that is a mecca for rock climbing. I had to take somewhat of a large pay cut at the time, but my quality of life and quality of climbing went through the roof. There are always ways to make this kind of a change work. It can involve some risk and sacrifice.... but it is worth it for anyone looking to really flip their life. I also want to confirm your observation on desk vs. physical labour job. I am a living example of the constantly injured, consistently weakest desk pilot compared to a number of my friends who work physical labour jobs who are consistently un-injured, and all cruised through to the 8a level in only 2-3 years. It really hits home on the overtraining cycle as well... in an effort to overcompensate for my weakness and desk-piloting, i've consistently fallen into the constant overtrain/injury cycle. One thing i've done to combat the "no-activity" desk job is to keep physio/resistance bands at my desk and do shoulder exercises all day long in my chair. When summer hits, living in the mountains I often go mountain biking at lunch during the week which has helped a ton. Winter is a tough one, but I do work close to home and the gym, so I can often go climbing or training at lunch during the winter as well.

[@thesvenvids7708]

Where did you move to? I'm looking at doing a working holiday in Canada somewhere, maybe Squamish but also looking for other options.

[@paulusul]

Have you considered getting '9 Out of 10 Climbers Make the Same Mistakes ' into an audiobook? Anyone else know good climbing audiobooks for the commute?

[@rogero8443]

I really hope he does! He has a great voice that I'm sure would translate well to audiobook. 100% instant buy!

[@LukeRockCimber]

Only if he records it himself!

[@SamStanf]

I don’t know if any audiobooks, but on Niall Grime’s “Jam Crack” podcast he has some episodes where he or others read out interesting climbing stories / essays (his interviews are really good too!)

[@tomktl879]

ebook!

[@doheeyang]

@@SamStanf zs zZ ,r, t- r= r ⁴6gg66 gjcu6 yjjn y hhjrh

[@kriszteblade]

Dave please do a podcast on diet. Your interview with Neil Gresham (and him being a skeptic at first) made me super curious about the 'diet revolution' taking place. PS Your channel is the best source of knowledge for (not only) slightly older climbers.

[@climbermacleod]

On the way.

[@mortenlund1590]

@@climbermacleod Thank you!

[@dantequartermain3595]

I really enjoy the way you think man, very systematic and logical probably why you are one of climbing's greats.

[@finlaysimpson]

The key to training with a physical job is not to sit down after work, no matter how hard the day was. Make a coffee and go straight to the crag/wall. If you stop for long enough to realise how knackered your body is, its game over!

[@kriszteblade]

Haha You hit the nail on the head! Just keep on going, because if you stop - you won't get up until it's bedtime.

[@JorikD]

I agree, but do be mindful of your body. For example, if you have aches in you hands, focus on footwork or balance technique.

[@jaydee4988]

@@sploo13 not so much if your going to the wall. Your muscle will exhaust the benifits of caffeine.

[@LukeRockCimber]

Long term thinking and being your own advocate - I couldn’t agree more!

[@karenb221]

This is so helpful, relevant for all training not just climbing. I've burnt out a lot with demanding desk job and cycling training.

[@eugenejkim]

I absolutely loved your last bit on the duality of uncertainty. A wonderful life lesson that tbh was the most helpful tip (the others were helpful also! But, mindset changes are so applicable to almost every area). Thanks for the reminder Dave/Mr. MacLeod. Some reason, hearing it from you reminded me to always try and see the other side of the coin and really appreciate the reminder. Cheers. PS, would love to hear some more little bits like that :D Would love to hear about your own training dogma, periodized vs nonperiodized and what your experiences were with the protocols if you have tried nonperiodized protocols, why you chose one vs the other. As a medical student in US, I'm stuck with a fair amount of time but moderately rigid schedule and uncertain as to which provides the best adaptation and fun / time ratio. Would also love to hear what you do for injury prevention/prehab besides turning the intensity of the training schedule to maintenance. The words "getting strong is easy, getting strong without getting injured is hard" are always in the back of my mind and with your history of injury and training load, the possibility of overuse injury seems moderately high (although with your experience, training capacity, etc. I would safely assume you've found methods to mitigate those risks)

[@GJ_0008]

Another great vid Dave. I have recently got myself a rise and fall desk to mitigate my sedentary job (read hunched at my laptop for hours on end!). Love the idea also of intermittent training throughout the day. Will try out. 👍 P.s. would it be possible for you to put your text bits on the video up for a second or two longer as I'm not the quickest reader! :) Pausing is ok but then the vid description covers it. Doh! :) Thanks again for the great vids. Inspiring and really thought provoking. 👍

[@climbermacleod]

Thanks useful feedback.

[@dipper0yawn]

Thank you for another fantastic video!

[@markostojanovic6973]

after feeling really weak and sick yesterday during my training you described my situation 100% percent correct. i def need to change my habits and reorganize my work-life-training routines. amazing vid!

[@todd2135]

ive been working as a tree surgeon for a year and have managed to consistently get 3 weekday sessions a week in and i am noticing more improvements in my climbing since working full time doing physical work and it was what motivated me to stretch consistently after every climb to maintain myself

[@MrMungo6]

Thanks Dave, another great video.

[@americanman6347]

I work 12 hrs a day in a brutal environment shoveling rocks sometimes all day. And I need to get a fingerboard at work and do whatever else I can at work before the gym at night. This one really helped thank you

[@LukeRockCimber]

Wow can I just say how close to home this hit for me... Climbing was a big factor for moving back from New York City. I now work 10 minutes from good outdoor bouldering. I also have a flash board at work and when I have to work late or have obligations where I can’t get climbing I hit the flash board for a quick session at lunch. I really believe in everything your saying here, and it can really be quite freeing! Took a few years to but I have taken it one issue at a time and it’s worked for me. I have also found that by moving outside of New York the value I bring to my job is much higher- there is less competition for my job and I’m able to feel more secure in the job. This allows me the freedom to hangboard at lunch and greatly brings down stress which helps focus.

[@Wazoodles]

My own experience with doing a very laborious job vs sedentary: I get pushed way harder with a hard job. Certain aspects of my fitness and mentality go unused and untested with a lazy job. Also.... if you're stoked and have a gameplan, you only need 45-70 minutes for a banger session to maintain/increase your gains.

[@climbermacleod]

Just as a follow on, here is a film I made over on the Nevis Landscape Partnership channel about my own local climbing area in Glen Nevis which serves as a playground that people can get to within ten minutes of work and enjoy climbing of all different types in a natural environment that isn't stressful. The climbers in this video are variously doctors, climbing instructors, mountain guides, filmmakers, route setters etc kzbin.info/www/bejne/mZ28fINte82qgpI

[@OwNLaM]

Worth pinning! The video is great! Really inspiring to do a mix discipline trip to Glen Nevis.

[@xalingding]

Hi Dave, these videos are great, I think they’re definitely helping my climbing. Some ideas for videos that would help is how to know if your technique or movement is the problem or strength. I’ve always been quite a strong climber so I’ve always assumed it was my technique holding me back until a coach mentioned he thought I had weak fingers. I find it hard to know how to identify what to work on. As well after reading 9 out of 10 climbers you mentioned how gym climbers struggle outside and I’ve just started trying to do some sport climbing but I agree it just feels completely different to indoor routes. Maybe something on how you climb differently between indoors and outdoors. Anyway I hope these videos keep doing better because I think they’re great and you can always see you have such a broad understanding of all aspects of climbing.

[@crimpychris]

Very motivational Dave. Thanks for this, really enjoyed and lots to think about. :)

[@danielsierra8013]

How can this video have so few likes? Thank you so much for such quality content.

[@samuelkellerhals5942]

Brilliant advice !

[@tombuckett1574]

I've never had any problems balancing my physical job (builder/carpenter) and climbing. In fact some of my hardest climbs have been after the most grueling weeks and strenuous days of work. It's almost like physical work primes your body to try hard and acts as some sort of warm-up/recruitment. I've often heard climbers in sedentary occupations express the sentiment that trade jobs provide the prerequisite finger, forearm, shoulder and back strength necessary to progress fast. While I don't disagree, sometimes it's hard not to feel even just a tiny pang of jealousy towards climbers who are more-or-less always operating fresh, especially when they are performing at a much higher level than you.😉

[@pablomolina3264]

Hi Dave, Great video! I know you have talked about how having a toddler can actually help you to embrace your circadian rythm (in order to prevent injuries, lowering allostatic load), rather than try to fight it. This may be even better for athletes who have very tight schedules and spare time, compelling them to develop more efficient and systematic daily routines. I would be delighted if you can refer to some specific aspects of how to deal with parenting (my daughter is almost 3 years old) and having a healthy training routine, and even go out and do some rock climbing.. hopefuly. Any thoughts? Cheers!

[@valaudae1809]

Here’s an alternative viewpoint to the work/climbing balance question. Plenty of very fine climbers have had conventional jobs and families and still found time to have enviable climbing lives. With effort and time management you can have it all, even with a sedentary occupation. Gary Gibson; Chiropodist, has a huge list of difficult first ascents at Pembroke, Lundy and the South West. Mick Fowler, Tax Inspector, a climber of vast experience and first ascents of the highest quality on rock and ice, the length of this country. Check out the book “Extreme Rock”. Rab Anderson is a prolific Scottish climber, who explains in a televised interview in the TV series “The Edge” how, as a younger man, tried to climb full time but found just surviving was so onerous. As an older, wiser man he admitted that with a standard career and the correct organisation of his time that he got all the climbing he needed. Scotland is split weather wise; very often the West is deluged in rain whilst the East is sunny, so moving to a Fort William isn’t the solution it may first appear. There is an invention called the motor car. Mick Fowler is exceptional but he thought nothing of finishing work on a Friday and driving up to Torridon to put up new routes on ice. Sunday night he drove back to the South of England to be ready for work come Monday morning.

[@climbermacleod]

Sure. I think that is entirely consistent with what I'm saying. I work 50+ hours a week for maybe 2/3 year myself and still manage to climb reasonably well during that period. I would push back on two points though - in the video I am really talking about pushing your body hard in training and how that fits with work. I don't know about Gary, but I don't think Rab or Mick are hammering themselves on the boulder wall every night to get strong for their projects. Secondly, it doesn't need to be dry in Fort William to go climbing in Lochaber. I have spent half my adult life climbing dry rock on wet days here. There is plenty.

[@craigfurber3793]

Funny. Just settling in to a new job which I took because it offers more time to devote to my climbing. We'll see how a Winter training where I have a two day weekend works out, really fucking stoked to see what I can do. It's a physical job.

[@craigfurber3793]

I think it's not so much that people can't do stuff that makes their climbey life more accessible, it's that the possibility of self-promotion within the system of work in the US & UK is more alien than we care to see, breaking a mould is a mindset thing and many simply do not have those possibilities in their current mindset. Shit, it's taken me three + years of working toouch to finally break free, maybe, who knows, I fucking don't.

[@mattm6057]

I'd be curious your thoughts on mentally taxing jobs. My job as a helicopter flight instructor demands high levels of concentration as well as physically taxing in a non-traditional way. I love my job so changing it isn't an option just a factor that I have integrated into my training. Using an autoregulatory type of training has been of much benefit, basically if I'm not feeling it that day, I tone the intensity of my training back. I find that if I have a day that is extremely mentally exhausting it's harder to get ready to train and push the limits, than a physically exhausting day. Just me, thank you for all the insight!

[@climbermacleod]

Interesting. Do you use any meditation to lower cortisol and give the brain a break? And did you experiment with training before work?

[@mattm6057]

I do practice meditation however to be honest it is not as consistent as it should be. I have also experimented meditating before a training sessions and felt for me it dampened my arousal and readiness level. Which probably be contributed to fatigue throughout the day as well, possibly. So many factors. To be honest no. However I was a strength and conditioning coach before flying so I have a good idea of when my optimum readiness to train is and that's evenings. Now could that be changed with routine probably. Thanks for the reply!

[@williamrosenbaum8882]

Good video man!

[@reccy231]

First again! Thanks, Dave. :)

[@voltagefireworker7849]

Very good.

[@thomas-vs2lw]

really good video! thank you :)

[@arnesl929]

+1fingerboard (homemade) at work, hope to keep it that way.

[@joolsgrommers1466]

A lot of this chimes with me. I have a physical job, but recently decided to forgo accepting a particular schedule called back 2 back (where you load out a show at night, then set one up in the morning, often in different venues). This to allow me better sleep, and less non-training fatigue. Have you heard of a book called: "Scientific principles of strength training"? It's based around barbel movements, but so easily adaptable to other strength sports. Using periodisation and auto-regulation of training loads depending on fatigue etc. Very useful read. Here is a playlist which touches on each principle: kzbin.info/aero/PL1rSl6Pd49IlsiAgFRWNI1ruDGNrMJ092

[@Marc-fg1mn]

I work for a big corporation, and believe or not I had mentioned this (using fingerboard during lunch) to our QSHE and his reply was I'm not allowed because I'm at work, sic!

[@climbermacleod]

Missed opportunity on their part. There is good research showing regular brief interludes of exercise increase work concentration and productivity. Most people who work from home know this intuitively. You could present the research in a review - a lot harder to argue with.

[@johnaisthorpe6141]

You mention that it's not good to eat late at night. I often train in the evening, not long before i go to sleep, and wonder weather i should eat a meal before or after the session. I've heard that its recommended to eat (especially protein) within 30 mins or so after finishing a session. Is this still the case in the evening and are there any general nutrition rules to follow on when and what to eat?

[@climbermacleod]

I wouldn't say rules. There are trade-offs. Most of us at some point get home late from the crag/mountain/wall and need to eat late. Going from hyped up and training to large meal to sleep in a short space of time is not ideal. But if the alternative is no training then its better. Ideally if the evening meal is earlier then there might be an improvement in sleep quality. Might is probably the key word. Noone's life is perfect. Don't stress too much about it. I doubt whether it matters all that much whether the meal is before/after the session from an anabolic point of view. It probably matters more if a big pre-training meal makes you feel uncomfortably full or lethargic during the climbing.

[@denislejeune9218]

Very nice video, interesting and challenging. But I guess you're talking to people who want to be high-achievers in climbing, whatever that means. For me climbing is a hobby and yes, I want to improve, but not exactly to the point of shaping my life around it. Probably because I cannot be a high-achiever in the first place, or because, as the world, all climbing's a stage. Let's just say I'm a bit more interested in seeing how far my climbing can go with all the other stuff shaping my life (wife, kid, physical limitations, different countries etc) than hammering my life into a climbing shape - not a criticism of those who do, do not misunderstand, and maybe I would have, had I discovered climbing younger and been more suited to its high-end. Cliché I know but given my circumstances the destination matters to me less than the journey. Anyway, as I said super content and points.

[@climbermacleod]

Sure. I guess the points in the video work for whatever is the main focus.

[@CorkBouldering]

Do you have children Dave?? Another aspect.

[@climbermacleod]

Yes, I do.

[@charwilliams2928]

Is no one going to mention Mcloed can’t pronounce sedentary! No idea what the rest of this video is about.