Vocal Compression - How to Mix Live Vocals (feat. Jon Thurlow)

[@AttawayAudio]

What part of this tutorial gave you an "AHA!" moment? Comment below to let me know!

[@normpeterson9311]

The non-compressed signal to the singers monitors. AND I do have musical tourettes. I am constantly humming violin to worship songs, syncopation, double stop harmonies. I've got the headphones on and my family starts looking weird at me (again)

[@danielfmyers]

The reasoning behind peak/rms 👍

[@AttawayAudio]

@@danielfmyers Nice!

[@RalphPiepenburg]

biggest aha...definately on the slower attack to thicken up. Thanks a lot :)

[@AttawayAudio]

My pleasure! Oh man... now I’m craving Chick-fil-A

[@DaddyAddy833]

This channel saves my life when it comes to sound engineering. Thank you so much!!!

[@AttawayAudio]

Woohoo! Glad I keep you from going over the edge and quitting 😃

[@scottrobinson9752]

I've been doing sound for a long time... I did my first tour in 1989. Obviously that was the days of analog. It was around 2007/2008 when I began seeing digital consoles on a pretty consistent basis. It was around this tim that I accidentally discovered a compression technique I use all the time now.... While still acclimating to the digital world, I would often start adjusting things, without remembering to select the proper channel. One day, thinking I was adding compression on something else, I was actually adding it to an overhead channel. I soon realized my mistake, but also realized it was doing something cool. I then applied compression to both overheads. The band I was mixing was a very dynamic rock band. The overhead compression kept the really intense peaks under control, and would bring them forward as the band settled into quiter sections of songs. I see a lot of guys use it now, but back in the analog days you typically didn't have enough compressors in your rack, to spare, for such things. Something that used to be very popular, back in analog days, was sidechaining. I don't see too many engineers using it these days. I do things like sidechain a bass DI to the kick compressor...to bring out bass runs during busy bass and drum segments of songs. I'm surprised more guys don't use tricks like that, since its so easy to do on digital consoles. Sidechaining is cool because it assists in moving shared tonal things out of the way of each other...making room for more musical information to be heard.

[@philippgrunert8776]

Your tutorials always nail it. Really among the very few channels on KZbin which teach stuff that actually is applicable

[@theelchacho4686]

Very helpful! Thanks for demonstrating tracks with the different variables enabled and disabled it helps solidify the concepts.

[@AttawayAudio]

I’m glad it was helpful for you! Compression changed my (mixing) life 🤪

[@drpeks]

Just found your channel and i definitely need to go on a binge watch.. My church will be finally switching from an analog to a digital board very soon and after having convinced them to buy it i definitely wanna show them its worth.. Thanks for making these professional videos.

[@AttawayAudio]

Hey thanks for serving your church by running sound! After getting things dialed in, show them how easy it is to save a “base” scene and have a kid hit “recall” to get things working. That’s when they’ll know it’s worth it 😁

[@drpeks]

Attaway Audio yasss 🙌🏾🙌🏾🙌🏾.... I can’t wait... Thank you for making out time to educate us freely 😃 ✊🏾

[@szekerespista3758]

Very helpful! 👌God bless you and your family!

[@AttawayAudio]

Thank you! I'll receive that :)

[@carlosalbertomoralesramos9995]

Having that console to hands on, it's impossible to ignore your knowledge. Really interesting channel! Thumps up for you. Bless and cheers fron Perú.

[@AttawayAudio]

Thanks Carlos! Thanks for serving Jesus in Perú!

[@newmeutube1]

Thank you for sharing your knowledge James. Very professionally presented. I’m new to digital mixing world and you have made the transition from analog friendly. I was scared. You are a legend. Keep them tutorials coming. 👏👏👏

[@AttawayAudio]

So glad I could help you make the jump! Thanks for being your church's sound ninja

[@mebaugh1]

Very useful tips and coaching on compression! Love it! Thanks! As someone with experience of 30 years, but with no formal training, this filled in a gap.

[@AttawayAudio]

So glad it's helpful! I love learning more all the time.

[@aadkins563]

I’m speechless!

[@wesfield09]

great info!

[@AttawayAudio]

Glad it was helpful!

[@scottcampbell4159]

I took lots of notes. Seems like some very useful, practical advice. Gonna try it out at rehearsal this week.

[@AttawayAudio]

Have fun!

[@blessedson69]

Great tips. God bless you Brother.

[@AttawayAudio]

Thank you! God bless you too!

[@samunerdrum5978]

Super cool. Is It possibile to do this with judt a mediocre mixer?! (I Guess not).

[@danny-al]

Amazing video.

[@AttawayAudio]

Thanks, Danny!

[@michaelsteingard]

You're a really great teacher. Appreciate these videos!

[@AttawayAudio]

Thanks Michael! 🙌🏼

[@evenaicantfigurethisout]

which software plugin do you recommend to do this on the mac (stage live)? does the fabfilter c2-pro do live compression?

[@mdcoker]

Thank you for this tutorial i have learned so much from your videos. my question is. what is good compression level and makeup gain for lead vocal and backup vocal

[@AttawayAudio]

Hey Daniel! I aim for an average of about 5dB of gain reduction, and the makeup gain depends on how much I need to push my fader up to keep it on top of the mix.

[@tomasenrique]

Sound NINJA!

[@Alpha-Andromeda]

Great vid... definitely sounds more professional!!! 🍀🍀🍀

[@myronblackmon8883]

attack times release time and tonal relationships, I"m learning a lot watching your videos....I've been "pushing faders" for a few years now and your videos are teaching me How to approach so many of the features on my X32 that I've not been able to use. thank you

[@johannanielsen5256]

Thank you for making this nice video. What microphone did you use for the vocals?

[@AttawayAudio]

It was a live recording from several years back, but if I remember correctly they're Shure Beta 87s.

[@smwdotcom]

Thanks again, everytime i watch your videos, I learn a lot to go~

[@AttawayAudio]

So glad it's helpful for you Simon! Keep learning and growing!

[@alursetiawan]

I'm not sure if I miss this any part of the video, but like eq you advised us to only cut and not boost to avoid feedback. Does changing compression during live causes feedback? Also, another question, I have yamaha tf3, I notice everyone running reverb and delay fxs. What other fx is good and make vocals or anything in general better? Is there any tutorial about all different fx? Thanks

[@AttawayAudio]

compressing CAN cause feedback if you end up compressing too much add too much makeup gain, which raises the noise floor. But you can adjust it during the performance - I do all the time to get things dialed in. There's another video on Vocal FX here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/kISqnWuqfMd2Z80

[@bogee647]

hey!been a sound tech for over 30 years, this was most accurate and concise explanation of compression i have ever heard.

[@AttawayAudio]

hey thanks!

[@christophercoutto]

hi james thank you for your videos! would you recommend compression for choir sections with groups of 4 to 8 singers on SATB?

[@AttawayAudio]

Depends on the mics and their propensity to feed-back, but that'd probably only be VERY light compression to keep the peaks from getting out of control. A bigger group is going to have better dynamics to keep the quieter parts still intense enough. Does that make sense?

[@discokillers8674]

Very good instruction. Got straight to the point on the settings, then went into the description of each setting. Thank you! I bought a BBE MaxCom dual compressor and will follow your advice when it arrives.

[@albort81]

This is great information, thanks so much. I find that when I use compression I end up losing control on the drums sound, because of how loud drums bleed becomes in vocal microphones, specially cymbals. I have tried changing positioning of singers in relation to the drumkit, different microphone patterns, begging the drummer to play cymbals softer, but none of these worked. Any helpful tips on this?

[@AttawayAudio]

Drum shields can help. Or you use less aggressive compression on the vocals. There's only so much you can do if the musicians don't cooperate. The laws of physics still apply even if you're the greatest drummer in the world

[@themusicianshub4911]

what do you mean by soft my knee shows me 1 to 5

[@AttawayAudio]

1 is hard and 5 is soft. On the graph, hard looks like a corner and soft is a gentle curve

[@themusicianshub4911]

@@AttawayAudio thanks man Ive Been watching all your videos over night

[@AttawayAudio]

@@themusicianshub4911 I feel like we should hit up waffle house after that

[@cresenciomanaoat5524]

Thanks for that awesome tutorial.. I want to learn more from you, can you please make a tutorial about a proper adjustments of gate.

[@AttawayAudio]

Sure! It's right here kzbin.info/www/bejne/joqupK2MhbSHeJo

[@barrioAVstudio]

0:48 - "Set it and Forget it is for Chumps"... Had me LOL. Thanks for the info.

[@marcelinosaldanajr8000]

What is the song that was in this video? is it published?

[@illfixyourhonda3230]

hey man i gotta ask what song is this ? Sounds lovely

[@AttawayAudio]

It's called "Shout Your Name"

[@brendon-paul]

With so much bad advice and lack of knowledge in youtube videos, THANKYOU for producing a video with good advice, deep understanding and clear delivery. As a profession engineer i thank you for putting youtube right. 👍

[@AttawayAudio]

Wow thank you Brendon! 🙌

[@mayceemay7203]

Awesome tutorials. Thank you! Very helpful.

[@AttawayAudio]

Thanks Maycee! 🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼

[@victorandrewlopez3879]

Attack and Release easily explained here. Plus I really enjoyed the song that was sung in this video.

[@AttawayAudio]

Thanks Victor! It really is a great song

[@thetechq]

Nice summary. I suspect your choices are good for your context as many people listen to small speakers without much fidelity. In this environment, clarity is king. I listen to a lot of classical where the dynamic range can be much higher and the equipment is often higher end and can more properly produce a complex mix. Knowing your audience is important as it can result in better overall outcomes.

[@jacogreeff4644]

I found that sending compression to our wedge monitors works the best. Vocalist prefer to sing their hart out and have confidence that they won't over power the sound on stage.

[@AttawayAudio]

If it's set right, it can be awesome! Just have to be careful about raising the noise floor and feedback.

[@kickingxri]

Waste of time use inears

[@mattcero1]

Would you please tell us, in your opinion, optimal numbers for each setting for spoken voice, talking head work? Thank you

[@martineeekhof2692]

After playing around with this a few times, I'm starting to wonder where to put the threshold. When I set it too low the compressor never releases the signal between syllables/words, am I correct? The release time also is not doing much then?

[@Filpate]

Hey, Thanks for the tips! Can you speak on the “Hold” function on compressors? I see in your tutorial and others the Hold is set to zero and not mentioned. Do you use ‘Hold’ for anything?

[@MilkTheDuck]

How much different db between main vocal and back up vocal? Roughly

[@AttawayAudio]

Depends how tightly they're singing, but anywhere from 3-10db down

[@OrbisonTributeArtist]

What an incredible teacher you are...not to mention sound engineer. I am learning a great deal from you. Thanks!

[@javen317]

Best part of vid for me is how compression controls vocals from verse to chorus. My aha.

[@ectyka]

Brother, what's the name of the track that's playing at the end?

[@DarkPa1adin]

I hope to learn audio post production from you.

[@AttawayAudio]

more courses coming this fall 🙌 check out attawayaudio.com for the waiting list

[@TheGODZIRRAA]

around the 5:15 or so mark when talking about RMS vs Peak you say RMS is faster and peak is slower, and after your example you switch it to RMS is slower and Peak is faster? i know which is which but i just noticed it and didn't know if you wanted to fix it so as not to confuse someone lol. Your videos are great BTW, i link them to people all the time if they need help and i cant talk them through something. keep it up!

[@AttawayAudio]

I think what I meant is you can move the attack time faster with RMS with fewer artifacts compared to a similar attack time in peak mode. But thanks for catching that!

[@88omarz]

Awesome video as always. How do you get a vocalist voice louder when they are softer speaking or a softer singer ? Not a proximity issue. Just songs lower.

[@anthonymascarenhas356]

Thanks a Lot ..Could you also touch up on Parallel compression.

[@cgullcharlie]

Great video but "when our voice gets harsher, when they are singing louder" .. "counteract with slower attack time" this seems to contradict when you say slow attack makes it thicker? I dont follow that part.

[@AttawayAudio]

If their voice is getting harsher, you want to counteract that by having your gear make it thicker. It's like you put jelly on your peanut butter sandwich, not potato chips. Though that might not be bad.

[@minitu2417]

i need the song and the drums please help me so i can do like you what you do it's awesome

[@dannydane2707]

great tutorial, really got a lot. I was wondering if its a good idea to send in a compressed vocal signal into an effect bus (say reverb or delay) or rather send it as post eq. looking forward to your response. Thank you.

[@AttawayAudio]

I send my vocals to effects post-eq and compression. That way the level of the reverb and dry signal stays consistent

[@dannydane2707]

Attaway Audio great. Thank you. That makes sense.

[@lancemanly2533]

i use this guys videos to run sound for black metal shows.

[@firebhaze]

The best tutorial and the first id comment on KZbin. Thank you for making this

[@rexwave4624]

Good channel - I'm learning things. I'm a semi-retired rock band engineer. I've used compression selectively to highlight the "star" of the event, usually the person whose name is on the marquee, that the audience paid to see. I've used it to keep overly dynamic sidemen and backup singers in their lane, allowing the star more of the available dynamic range of the rig. The supporting musicians can still sound great without getting in the way of the star's sound. Although, when I mixed a show that featured a legendary guitar hero and singer, the bass player criticized me afterward that I had squashed his dynamics. Although I made nice with him, he wasn't ready to be told he wasn't the hero that the people paid to see. So, I sometimes messed with the artistic composition. Some would say that's bad. If there's a music director who seems to have his/her act together, I wouldn't do that. What do you think?

[@luisfreddysperezruiz9094]

when you say in video 4.1 is 4.1:1 or 3.4:1 ??? because you say 4.1 but in the picture shows 3.4:1

[@AttawayAudio]

I don't worry a ton about the precision of the ratio... so "around 4:1" is what I mean.

[@ollyparker8179]

Love this video and the whole series.I have learned more from you thank anyone on live mixing. What do you like more RMS or peak mode for smooth vocals?

[@dksound6602]

Amazing Useful techniques. Sir, please tell me How to tune foh system in live sound by rational acoustice smaart software.

[@AttawayAudio]

Thanks DK! I have a system tuning & Smaart video in the works. Thanks for watching!

[@forester_overland_nz]

Do you find compression to increase the chance of feedback on live settings?

[@AttawayAudio]

yes, you're raising the noise floor by reducing the dynamic range, which makes it more likely to feed back. So don't go crazy :)

[@TimOost]

Can I like this video twice? This was so useful for me! Thank you

[@revelationevents2323]

Can you use side chain compression on vocals?

[@djskor]

Sometimes I get feedback when I start adding compression. How can I avoid that?

[@AttawayAudio]

use less gain reduction by raising your threshold... compressing it a lot and then turning it up raises the noise floor

[@sedemvincent4436]

Very awesome and practically oriented video God bless you paaaaaaa

[@AttawayAudio]

Thanks Sedem Vincent! God bless you too!

[@HectorGallegosmusic]

Compression sounds professional. Thanks for the tips....BUT.....I really dig those uncompressed passes as well. LOL Makes me listen harder and sounds natural.

[@AttawayAudio]

You bet! I love uncompressed, musical signals... but getting it all to fit in a mix........ bring on the compression 🤣

[@BarnabY07]

Hi James, Still a very helpfull tutorial and the singer is so good. A blessing to hear. Do you have a starting place for the compression on the vocal bus ? Sometime you mention using submix but I'm not shure how to properly set the compressor on a submix.

[@AttawayAudio]

Subgroup compression is all about gentle moves, since you're changing an entire group instead of an individual input. Or there are ways to compress in parallel but that's more than I can go into in a comment 😀😀

[@rudygomez6996]

Hi so I’m a singer on stage for church and out of necessity I’m running the mixing board on stage while performing. I heard compression helps with bringing up gain before feedback? Since my set up is to hear run sound from mixer to stage monitors then to foh speakers, how do i do this without making our voices sound dul squashed, or should i just stay away from compression lol?? Thank you!!

[@AttawayAudio]

squashed feeling means it's too much. just turn "up" the threshold so it compresses less if you hear that artifact.

[@rudygomez6996]

@@AttawayAudio thank you, would you say maybe around -10db threshold is good?

[@pro_muso]

Great tutorial mate. Subscribed. A question if I may. I am a soloist and I sing everything from ballads to rap. Given I do my own sound, what settings do you think would be optimal to cover a wide dynamic range without being able to mix on the fly? I have quite a deep, powerful voice.

[@AttawayAudio]

If you have a way to use Waves plugins, Vocal Rider might be a good option for you. It's hard to set up something to mix vocals that dynamic automatically

[@pro_muso]

@@AttawayAudio Thanks buddy. Yeah there is no 'one size fits all'.

[@Profartiste]

Very well explained and many details are very well illustrated.

[@jordanwood]

How are you playing back through the board? Do you have a multitrack recorder? We use a Roland m480 and are desperately searching for the r1000

[@AttawayAudio]

I have a DAW connected via MADI. The Roland system is absolutely atrocious for trying to get virtual sound check working. It's cheaper to buy a new console than to get their recorder or a MADI bridge that goes to their interface.

[@stevegorczyk3133]

compress bg singers separately or group them and do a group compression...or both?

[@AttawayAudio]

I compress individual channels. Sometimes I group them, but that's rare, especially since it's common for different singers to lead different songs, and I don't want to have to re-assign vocals to groups mid-set

[@artisteo]

Great stuff, thanks! I have a low voice so set my settings slower to not thin it out.

[@BollywoodRaagas]

Great Video - A question - Compression on Vocals can kill the expression and and modulation and feel in the voice. How do we address this issue?

[@AttawayAudio]

don't overdo it, and ride the vocal to move with the band. but it's gotta stay on top, and you've gotta help the quiet parts of the phrases

[@BollywoodRaagas]

@@AttawayAudio can you please elaborate a bit?

[@vinz_sap]

For in ear monitoring, send the vocal with or without compression to the singer? Thank you so much.

[@AttawayAudio]

usually without, unless they know what they want. but it's usually LESS compression in their ears than I want at FOH

[@vinz_sap]

@@AttawayAudio thank you. Have a good day✌

[@natemorse5435]

What is the white controller near the top right of the desk??

[@AttawayAudio]

+Nathan Morse that’s a SPL meter

[@natemorse5435]

@@AttawayAudio great cheers

[@stevecowles8073]

Much appreciated. Thank you

[@gabrielzimm1047]

Excellent video as always! Do you often compress the BGVs separately from the lead vocalist, or just compress the vocals all in one stereo bus? Thanks!

[@AttawayAudio]

Everybody gets their own

[@TheLushwin]

thank you for this! I've always been intimidated by compression!

[@ggmusic8126]

Hey! How do you find the best setting for your threshold? Based on the uncompressed peaks? If my singer goes to let’s say -10dB when getting loud would you set based on the threshold below that?

[@AttawayAudio]

I just watch for the amount of gain reduction. 3-5dB verses, 8-10dB in choruses max.

[@normpeterson9311]

Does RMS stand for Root mean Square by any chance? (my old physics class at MIT)

[@AttawayAudio]

It does!

[@normpeterson9311]

@@AttawayAudio so...if the peak signal is multiplied by .707 you would roughly get the average of the sine wave and the peak would be the high points of the sine wave or just the positive peak for simple observation?

[@AttawayAudio]

Yes, but it’s not a sine wave, so it gets more complicated than that.

[@bpawansindhe992]

thank you, very useful vedio

[@timdontwannasay5889]

Very well explained! Looking forward to getting to the board to put it to practice! Thank you.

[@58MrMike]

Does make up gain affect monitor levels?

[@AttawayAudio]

Most of the time. Some consoles will let you send your aux send or direct out before processing.

[@manydreams1life315]

Like all your videos. I’d like to see a FOH EQ video - by ear or by device; common room beginning points and how that affects individual instrument channel settings. For example, the channel settings you used here would change if FOH changed from room to room. So you may have to cut 5k or 2k or whatever in main EQ and then have to add that back in on a channel EQ to compensate. It would just be interesting to know how you set room EQ

[@AttawayAudio]

transparent, with a slight HF roll-off, and a big bass boost... because we like to party 😃

[@supjay3945]

Ironically the vocal compression on this video seemed muddy

[@AttawayAudio]

🤷‍♂️

[@SOAMLE]

What interface are you using?

[@laurentbenjamin4145]

-28 on the treshold. Isn't that too much? I'm usually scared so I stay around -12 to -15db

[@AttawayAudio]

Depends on how hot the input signal is, and your ratio, and attack, and release. I don't look at threshold parameters as much as I look at Gain Reduction and listen for artifacts

[@riverdawg3705]

Nice tutorials...been hoodwinked into running board on a friend's band and this will help out tremendously. As one sound engineer told me if ya get the vocals down correctly 85% of the job is done, the rest is pretty easy as the instruments are gonna just do their thing without much noodling.

[@AttawayAudio]

very true 🙌

[@Shawneverette]

This was really good. Thanks for sharing. As a side, was the pitch correction live or did you do that on the playback?

[@AttawayAudio]

I corrected it in post before creating the tutorial :)

[@qiamudien]

Hello all pro mixers. Respect when you can hear a different between that different settings - special the fast and slow attach. But thanks for the video!

[@AttawayAudio]

It takes time to dial your ear into those changes, but it's definitely something that CAN be learned!

Holy crap... It's almost 3am and I've watched like 20 videos of yours. Thank you for sharing your knowledge, Jon!

[@AttawayAudio]

I guess there are worse things to stay up late doing 🤣

[@GonzoAudioTips]

Do you have a video and maybe audio examples of using the compressor key filter features?

[@AttawayAudio]

I don't yet! Likely because it's super rare that I actually use it. Sometimes for harsher things, I'll emphasize the high-mids into the key input, but I could count on one hand the number of times I've done it.

[@cliffrhodenizerjr.1333]

You explained attack time very well, but never talked about what to do with release time after the initial setting. What do you listen for when adjusting release time? Is there any rule you have for where to set that?

[@AttawayAudio]

Release time too fast = loud breaths. Release time too slow = missing quieter parts of a phrase after the loud syllables

[@abcdxyz2]

You might want to show how you achieve this awesome sounding kickdrum and snare?

[@AttawayAudio]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/nnPbp4qvmbeEgbs and kzbin.info/www/bejne/eaTLlamEo6l-qJY

[@vedasticks]

A good start is a good sounding kit tuned properly and a good player (too may drummer who havnt figured out that people generally dont dance to hi hats and cymbals)

[@AttawayAudio]

BazSound 😂😂😂

[@Ioraek]

Thank you for this. I've been watching a lot of your videos lately - they're fantastic! I'm afraid I can't tell the difference at all regarding the more subtle compression settings (attack speed). Actually even compression on and off I have to concentrate to hear the difference! I am new to mixing (I've only mixed, with help, a couple of performances so far so lots more experience yet to get). Would you say it's common for those beginning to really struggle picking this stuff out? I'm a bit worried I might have a tin ear..

[@AttawayAudio]

yes, it can be tricky to identify at first. critical listening is something that can be developed though.

[@rickdeaguiar-musicreflecti7692]

Great tutorial on Compression. Thank you for taking the time on this :)

[@damiandustin1437]

Really solid videos. Really some of the most practical and effective out there.

[@frankgatsbybeats3999]

ah ah

[@afriyiebonsu832]

Thank you so much for the video. Can I get a link to the song?

[@AttawayAudio]

kzbin.info?search_query=jon+thurlow+shout+your+name

[@adrenalincoverband]

Thank you for the super informative tutorials! In my situation I am the singer and also doing sound for our band before we play so is there any advice you can give for someone who isn't able to monitor/stay on faders during the performance? Adam

[@AttawayAudio]

Try this one! kzbin.info/www/bejne/in-aeoJvl9lqrNU