Vocaloid CONTROVERSIES

[@Lady_ETHNE]

The TORA_V4 drama is something I was completely unaware of... It honestly sucks because I do actually enjoy their covers.

[@kitsundere7696]

their*

[@LoveHeartWIPS]

@@kitsundere7696 yes

[@LoveHeartWIPS]

And it is unfortunate and I didn’t even know that a VOCALOID conversion to Utau Is illegal without permission

[@LocalTorchwoodIntern]

I witnessed it first hand and it was EMBARRASSING!!!

[@flowerunofficial2723]

I second this

[@SimplyMariposa]

Time stamps: 0:00 Intro 1:45 SSS 4:01 Planty-P 7:41 Vocamerica 11:45 Tora_V4 15:21 Outro Happy birthday, Fukase BTW😅

[@cyntheziser]

Recently (I think it was today),Tora changed their identity to Matoloid.

[@SoapiiOSC]

@@lyralyricist3701yep 😭

[@hachijuhachip]

he rlly thinks he can start fresh

[@rippuru-ai]

Now his username is just “Mato”… bro really thinks we’re that foolish?

[@Skirtkasedookielee]

Now its something else noramato

[@Seijuuskan-VTY]

​@@Skirtkasedookieleecan confirm he changed his name to noramato

[@Stardustmiku]

Damn ngl, Tora disappointed me, I love his covers, but I was unaware of the big drama and his questionable actions. It's really heart breaking seeing my favorite Vocaloid youtuber producer ended up being a completely evil person. It seriously changed my whole perspective of him being a amazing cool KZbinr that does a lot of covers to an immature, monster person. It is like every time there's something I like, there is a twist to it, an evil twist. I am glad that I'm not in that bad part of the Vocaloid community, only the good Vocaloid community.

[@otahenanthem]

I get it, Toras kind of a dickwad, but evil? That's a stretch imo. All he really did was port a voicebank and wank it to weird furry art and whine on Twitter. Not really evil

[@starblaze58]

oh shoot, i never knew about the TORAV4 drama sorta sucks, since i've always enjoyed the covers, but daaaang, sometimes makes me glad i don't really interact with the vocaloid community

[@cherry_tonic]

the Tora situation was overall really nasty. i blocked Tora after leaking KAFU, but then later on i heard what happened in the server

[@berry_cakeisgood]

TORA??? I’m very disappointed like I never thought they would get into controversy and be petty about it. The only controversy about vocaloid related is that Ruby was whitewashed when they revealed her in a expo and I was just shocked like how bad was the communication just for them to do that???

[@EnjoyerofMedia]

omg the original ruby design was never official & apparently confirmed to have been never shown to the company what so ever... actually wild

[@kendrillion7281]

I’m pretty sure this counts since it’s a JP producer controversy, but there was the popular producer Suzumu, who helped with the Pandora Voxx series and created songs like Sincerity Nature: Drastic Measures of Ignorance. This moreso affected the Utaite community but it was discovered that he would bad mouth others, was a pathological liar, steal their songs from unreleased or cancelled projects with one example being the Danganronpa the animation ending theme (allegedly none of the song he released were even made by him according to former colleagues), and constantly harassed an at the time relatively small Mafumafu, it’s possibly the major reason why Mafu hid his face and did those videos of him, Soraru, Amatsuki, and others just hanging out because he had become a shut in, since in interviews he states that bullying and harassment were the reasons He left back in 2015 and so far from my research only admitting to the song stealing, but claimed it under ghostwriting, ironically enough it was a year later that the Utaite community started to blow up in the west and lord knows how huge of a controversy it would have been had he quit a lot later 😅 No one talks about it though since a lot of the info is scattered and Suzumu deleted everything related to him including his apology statement on his blog. The only other proof we have are Mafu and Soraru testimonies across multiple livecasts and Mafu’s sings Berserk and Ghost

[@louisedumas3194]

I don't think it is a good thing that creators can be removed from the wiki or from credits because they are cancelled. That seems pretty childish and misinformative to me

[@kagavice]

Doing something illegal is more than just being cancelled. They did something legally wrong

[@Apple_Bapple]

im very disappointed in tora for what they've done. :( i actually liked their content.

[@GeneralNuisance00]

Can't believe you brought up ToraV4 and forgot to mention THOSE DAMN CHIPMUNKS. Cannot look at chip, dale, or alvin and the chipmunks the same ever again

[@WeebaLu]

I wanted to but I didn't want to accidentally offend the furry community when I know that kind of fan art is pretty common there despite Alvin, Simon and Theodore being characterized as children and Chip and Dale being for children ._.

[@lavenderhaze_]

omfg I forgot about this now I have to remember it again 😭😭😭 what a creep

[@doingyourmommp3novirus]

@@WeebaLuAs a furry your disgust is 100% justified and I wish you talked about it NSFW of Alvin, Simon and Theodore is Cub/CP

[@lumiose0]

This is why I stay as far from the western side of the Vocaloid as possible. Honestly, people really need to grow up and admit to their mistakes instead of making jokes about it and doubling down (LOOKING DIRECTLY AT YOU TORA)

[@WeebaLu]

The East side of the fandom can still get pretty nasty though, but you're right that it's not nearly as loud as the Western fandom.

[@Mu-vm4ij]

@@WeebaLut’s only not as loud cause we don’t speak Japanese. I think a huge issue in the Vocaloid community or anime community as a whole is idolizing the eastern fandoms and demonizing the west because we want to believe our favs would never act in a certain way -seeing them as a non problematic monolith. There’s many songs and people who are loudly criticized in the eastern fandom. Sure it’s not the same as the west obviously but it is at the end of the day a fandom. All fandom spaces have drama.

[@maybellx3]

I live in east michigan so i stay away from the california of the fandom

[@mirelle_mojena]

@@Mu-vm4ijooo i'm interested in the song responses. can you give me some examples of this? cuz the only song that i can think of at the top of my head is jackpot sad girl by syudou being a response to sand planet by hachi and that's it.

[@Mu-vm4ij]

@@mirelle_mojena I wouldn’t say that’s the best example since they’re both ok friendly terms, syudou sees hachi is a huge inspiration despite the songs. A few I can name of the top of my head are; Famous JP kaimei artist posted homophobic tweet, many Japanese fans were upset. Piracy is hugely looked down upon in the Japanese vocaloid community, many dramas span from it Not directly Vocaloid related, but MILGRAM (a deco-20 project) recently had s huge drama with Kazui’s latest song. Milgram is a social experiment song project where murderes sing their sins to us and we as viewers vote if we can forgive them. A popular streamer promised to give scenario merch to anyone who votes him guilty. This caused many people to vote guilty despite not seeing him as such. He’s a character who’s heavily implied to be gay. Maretu was accused of grooming his disabled EX girlfriend who was a minor by Japanese standards, he made a google drive apology. Color pale (company behind project sekai) had said in response to people asking why kaito and meiko didn’t have many songs, that kaito and meiko didn’t contribute much to Vocaloid culture. This tweet was shared to naoto fuga (kaitos voice provider) who was so upset he needed to log off for the day.

[@blackxprice]

God i remember TORA porting KAITO V1 to UTAU and the comment section like you had to be there when it happened

[@jasonallen6918]

I'm still waiting for the Turkey Tom video titled the "Vocaloid Degenerates" to come out one day and also documenting the history of seedy and questionable things happening in the Vocaloid community, I mean I guess anything is possible since he did a video called the "Anime Degenerates" revealing all of the shady and questionable things that have happened within the massive anime community and the actual industry itself regardless of what you may think of Turkey Tom as a person I watched these videos about these aforementioned subjects as a result of my own morbid curiosity.

[@mirelle_mojena]

imagine if he did that video one day and the ppl he talks abt is kikuo and maretu and it would be ppl's first exposures to their controversies lmao

[@antoinelk00]

This is more of an MMD controversy but…I do remember back when these ads for video games on mobile will use videos from popular MMD channels to “promote” their game even though their game is way different from the stolen video. Other then that, I don’t know any other Vocaloid and MMD controversies. I’ve been apart of vocaloid since I was a kid and I never experienced any of these controversies

[@WeebaLu]

There was also Rooster Teeth allegedly stealing TDA and other models when creating RWBY!

[@muhamadrizkyananda]

Not saying it's good tho but it's just like unfortunately more common way for those shitty mobile games to use cheap ways by stealing fan arts, videos, or even other legit games' gameplays footages when their actual games are way different Just here to say that is not necessarily MMD / vocaloid drama and controversy

[@sweetsryim]

Tora_V4 goes by Matoloid now

[@MagikLeo]

And now he goes by Mato without the loid

[@ifuckinghatekafka]

Now noramato(wth is that name)

[@vbsenthusiast]

i remember the tora drama!! i'm not on twitter so i experienced most of this secondhand but it was still pretty crazy. unsubbed and haven't touched a video of theirs since. i don't regret it, i just wish that they weren't so good at tuning kaito

[@zenostagefour]

The second I found out about Tora_V4/mattloid’s drama I left his community and anytime I hear an audio he made on Tik Tok I think oh this poor soul they need informed

[@zenostagefour]

Also all that stuff is true that you’ve mentioned

[@andreaochoa190]

TORA_V4 being this problematic was something I was completely unaware of

[@sleepy_cricket]

goddammit. i’m new to the vocaloid community, heard about how shit a person tora was pretty early on. then i was like “wow yay this noramatu person is pretty cool!” then opened the description of one of his older videos and saw…….toraV4……i was literally TRYING to avoid him but since he changes his username every so often i was totally blind

[@diamerald39]

Crazy stuff.. but thank you for this responsible, honest and mature take on it all. This is the first video of yours I've ever watched, and I really enjoyed your presenting style and feel much more informed now

[@R4diumCat]

tbh I think most people dont rly care if you test vocaloids in utau as long as you dont distribute it, it's been done to death for years now :P I mean things like sponge bob utau etc arent allowed either, the other tora things ohowever, are a little questionable

[@plantyyy]

god dammit my online persona has been planty p since like 2016 and now i have to find a new name for making synth v music because not only was the name taken but it was attached to a problematic creator 😭

[@spiele_maus]

I was totally unaware of the Tora drama, I mean I didn’t actually followed him but I enjoyed some of his videos on YT…that kinda sucked now Why do some people in the comments here say things like „stay away from the western Vocaloid community“ C‘mon there were some bad people but there’s also a huge good side of the community, and in the JP community there are also some controversies about some people… just like in every community there’s always some bad people…

[@WeebaLu]

To be honest, it's mostly this assumption that the Japanese fandom is the "good" one because, well, language differences as well as cultural differences making exposing controversial creators not as easy as it is in the West. To me, I don't think there's a "good" side of the world that the fandom has. Every fandom is gonna have it's bad eggs and I genuinely don't think where you live has anything to do with it. 🤔

[@amethystbigdumb]

i actually have a few japanese side controversies that i know - correct me if i’m wrong for any of this! Kairiki Bear - was accused of trying to make an album romanticizing lolicon. from what i remember, it was actually supposed to *mock* lolicon. Kikuo - similar situation. was accused of making a manga romanticizing cp and pedophilia, manga actually demonized it. Maretu - allegedly dated a disabled girl and took advantage of her. i don’t know how this one ended. MASA - fetishizes lebians, and encouraged his fanbase to dox a student who posted his songs to spotify and get her expelled. Popeyo - romanticizes suicide, plain and simple.

[@mizanimaru]

Kairiki bear is my favorite producer and I never knew about this controversy. Glad it ended well

[@Mycorrhiza]

@@amethystbigdumb maretu actually cheated on his then girlfriend with said disabled girl (who was 19), so a lot of fans were mad at him for that.

[@amethystbigdumb]

update on popeyo: apparently draws nsfw art of their MINOR ocs too... yuck

[@asterism343]

huh, i heard there was a controversy about tora v4, but i expected it to be way worse. their covers are pretty good, so unless they do something truly unforgivable, i don't really care...

[@alex-8736]

Just wanted to say i was into project mirai/Diva modding some years ago and Tora ysed to leave petty comments on small modders on youtube because they felt they owned the files to the games

[@WeebaLu]

that's so mean, wtf!?

[@alex-8736]

@@WeebaLu yeah like I can't confirm stuff since I don't have any screenshot and the videos were I saw it were pretty obscure but they were really angry whenever someone tried to make some type of tutorial on those type of things more openly to the public

[@EeveeFromAlmia]

Man, I was there to see Stella happen live. I wish the old forum was still around, it was fantastic.

[@kaleeshcalledjericho8379]

For as much as Noramato (Tora_V4) did, you’d think their KZbin channel wouldn’t be doing as well as it is. I think due to the constant name changing they manage to find new followers very frequently. Rip to the Talkloid “Hatsune Miku goes flying.”

[@toastarkat]

Bruh is on the run

[@CommonNeon]

I've been following Tora for years. Just now out stuff about him. I wondered why he's been changing his username so many times. I regret subscribing to him, he has over 100K now. I also remember at one point he went by they/them then changed his identity with that, too. I'm unsubscribing to him right now. I remember interacting when him and thinking he was a good person. I'm pretty sure he's also into sh*ta, which is absolutely disgusting. I'm so glad I know now. I honestly want to write a comment on his channel now and tell him how disappointed I am, especially being one of his fans a few years back. I've rarely seen anyone calling him out about this stuff. He doesn't deserve a place in the vocaloid community anymore.

[@roamoray]

kinda surprised no one is talking about how UTAU could be forced to end legal distribution of the program if YAMAHA or Crypton decide they care about porting Vocaloid banks to UTAU enough to pursue that . luckily it's not widespread enough to risk that yet but :/

[@0ccultic]

surpried masa wasn't brought up considering the recent things that were uncovered about him, including but not limited to fetishization of wlw relationships, sexualizing cultural clothing of cultures he is not a part of, casual and uncritical use of nazi and japanese imperialist imagery including making a full on nazi character, doxxing a minor, and commissioning sexualized art of a version of miku that was a grade schooler despite the artist being incredibly uncomfortable with it.

[@WeebaLu]

I had no idea about it as I'm not a fan of his music and I don't follow people who are so it was a complete shock when someone else in the comments brought it up. If I ever do another one, I'll be sure to bring him up!

[@senpapi521]

Didn't he also try sueing a minor just because they used their music too?

[@0ccultic]

@@senpapi521 yeah, its sad thats lower on his list of gross shit hes done.

[@doingyourmommp3novirus]

What the fuc-

[@OkamiLyra]

I have NOT heard of the commission one. When did that happen?

[@GloomyFish]

honestly this is the reason I unfollowed tora on twitter. I found out very fast how toxic they were. just their whole attitude and spreading misinformation about other producers... I'm still subscribed to their KZbin though because I genuinely enjoy their videos. I was very aware of them porting vocaloid voices to utau and the vocaloid wiki drama before I followed them on twitter but tbh I found all that kinda funny, I didn't know about the other stuff...

[@icejuice4212]

I’ve noticed that there are barely any comments calling out Tora on their channel. I’ve seen one and that comment even mentioned one of theirs being deleted. Honestly tora doing that is just digging the hole deeper for them.

[@WeebaLu]

I don't want anyone going after anyone, personally, but it doesn't shock me if he deletes comments that critique him.

[@icejuice4212]

@@WeebaLu yeah fr, it’s frustrating

[@valeelens]

I just started the video and now I'm scared about whatever Tora could have done. Edit: ok maybe could be worse but damn tora, why would you act like that Edit 2: well nevermind, it got worse💀

[@chloeg6399]

Apparently TORA was very rude and toxic to my friend Seepy/Soley so yea...I don't like him at all...

[@lumiose0]

I’m also friends with her and I did not know that, what the hell?! As if I didn’t already hate Tora enough

[@WeebaLu]

I'm sorry about that! :(

[@Loopko65]

welp you fan never trust anyone anymore it feels like. So disappointed in Tora

[@abraham-kun4144]

I wanted to mention this cause it's related to Vocaloid. There was a KZbin channel called HatsuneMikuVEVO, it seemed an official channel but it wasn't, and uploaded songs like the Ievan Polka arrangement, Romeo & Cinderella, etc., and put in video titles Miku Hatsune - x song, which it's like that Miku "created" that song, which it's outsourcing the producers who actually created the songs, but it fooled many people due to the VEVO logo and branding, later many fans, and the companies Crypton and Yamaha reported that channel, but with no sucess. Until in 2018, people noticed that channel was fake when the before mentioned uploaded the video "Miku Hatsune - Sand Planet feat. Nicki Minaj", which is a reupload of the mentioned song created by the producer Hachi (Kenshi Yonezu), which had Minaj rapping off-beat, and finally the channel was terminated due to copyright.

[@hachijuhachip]

Tora wasnt just rude or broke rules, they’re a zoophile and interact with shotacon stuff. Extremely disgusting.

[@ronaldreaganhater6982]

How old is Tora? I thought I saw they were a younger teenager before and if so that just makes the shotacon part really sad and concerning

[@hachijuhachip]

@@ronaldreaganhater6982theyre an adult

[@ronaldreaganhater6982]

@@hachijuhachip :( oh no

[@chloeg6399]

He did what now?!?!

[@chloeg6399]

Geez with the stuff that came out recently too I have to fucmong wonder how he even still has a leg to stand on in this community...

[@EnjoyerofMedia]

STELLA BROUGHT BACK MEMORIES I HAD INTERNALIZED. my jaw dropped when I saw her, I was so convinced she was real when the leak was new.

[@abraham-kun4144]

3:39 My favorite part.

[@aj7842]

in november 2010 avtechNO! deleted a bunch of his work off nico nico douga, his fans thought it was cause of comments pointing out similarities between his song DYE and NEVERxOVER by the boy band kat-tun, this caused avtechNO to find out they plagiarized him, causing feuds with the artists’ fans. the following month kat-tun released an apology statement over the uncredited sample

[@OkamiLyra]

Goddamn, that's just unfair. av didn't deserve that shit.

[@luo_tianyi_]

Will you make a part 2? Project Vivi could be in part 2

[@ness.39]

Amazing video! also is that omori music playing at 2:20?

[@Onyx765]

LMAO I too would've also gone to war for Hannah Montana as well WeebaLu😂

[@ponikoTV]

This makes me sad becuese I used to like tora... :C

[@saylikessaws]

circus and ghost an dpals mention

[@asht0nkai]

dude i loved tora wtf 😭😭 why does everyone have to be controversial now omg

[@SourSalty]

Even I know that porting Vocaloid voicebanks is illegal. Their was drama about someone porting V4 GUMI to UTAU and claiming it was their friend's voice. as proof of what happens when you do, the person got banned from -Uta forum -Vocaloid liscences -Using UTAU publically -r/UTAU -r/DeepVocal And so on so forth. The point is Plz don't port Vocaloid voicebanks to UTAU it's against both therms of use However if you made your own UTAUloid you can port them to Vocaloid with the right liscencing and all of that. Just make sure to use Your own voice samples for legality reasons (of course) And it's 100% ok if you voice act to sound like existing characters This is why voicebanks like Hitsuboku Kumi are allowed on UTAU as it's literally someone imitating Miku's voice instead of actually using actual Miku voice samples. Just don't bloody port Vocaloid voicebanks to UTAU. Finally I'll touch on the transphobia drama. You can think whatever you want, but hating on ppl for being transgender or using different pronouns is not gonna get you appreciated. Ppl don't need to prove you anything for you to respect their gender identity. I don't care if you hate me for identifying as a girl while having an androgynous gender expression, but like can you accept that I told you I am a girl and move on. This goes for every single alters in our system. If we tell you about our identity, just take it. It's not that complicated

[@CYB3RPUNK.D34D.B0Y]

I don't use Twitter. I didn't know any of the stuff about Tora. I'm still subscribed, unsubscribing right now

[@mikudayoisback6423]

And theirs the fnf (Friday night funkin) Miku UTAU, which no one was getting mad at it… 💀

[@theed1072]

Controversies*

[@WeebaLu]

Woops! Typo!

[@placebo8590]

Yay this video is back!

[@SandWingSnow]

Is Tora and Noramato the same person??

[@AngelGonzalez-fk1lv]

Yes

[@dwayneasher6765]

I love the video and I can't stand nFTs

[@flowerunofficial2723]

Thanks Lu :D

[@doodcore]

my name is jeff

[@theMyRadiowasTaken]

had to sit through your sobbing over piracy to actually get to the reasons why pktora actually sucks but finally i learned the good reasons people hate him lmao

[@hunnydarling]

right like they're most def a weirdo why is the section about piracy so long like there aren't other more objectively bad things to talk abt them doing

[@furutansu]

​@@hunnydarlingprobs from how stigmatized pirating is in the Fandom 🤷🏽‍♀️

[@vanitywitch478]

can someone please tell me about the crusher and circus p drama? i’m so intrigued

[@WeebaLu]

Basically, through some accidental words Circus leaked years ago in SUPER old livestreams, Crusher was pocketing the money from Echo that Circus was supposed to receive. I believe it was a 75 / 25 split and Crusher just refused to give him his share despite the fact that he helped with the mixing and finalized music. I believe he also helped with tuning as Crusher, to my knowledge, doesn't tune often. Crusher herself has also admitted previously that she was an incredibly bad and even mentally abusive friend due to severe untreated depression, she didn't say to who, but the timing made everyone put 2 and 2 together. Since then, they haven't talked to one another and refuse to even acknowledge the other's existence. Although the good thing is that Crushed has received help her for depression and seems to be doing a lot better so that's good!

[@vanitywitch478]

@@WeebaLu ooooh i see, thank you so much :))

[@MagikLeo]

​@@WeebaLu omg I never knew. Being a huge fan of their music it's a bit heart breaking

[@Nobody-jx6xc]

I don't know anything about zunko's drama

[@takumidoutou4412]

I hate how quick to cancel the western fandom is if I’m honest.

[@takumidoutou4412]

I was very disappointed in Kikuo when he did Nft’s but I’m over it now and I never tried to harass him a lot of people did

[@WeebaLu]

It depends. I think the biggest issue with literally any fandom is not considering critical thinking for art expressions. Scams with NFT's are still a scummy move, in my personal opinion, but I can tell a lot of independent artists did it out of ignorance on the subject so I think it's better just to like...educate people on how NFT's are no better than thinking you could make money "buying" a star.

[@takumidoutou4412]

@@WeebaLu it also seems to be a cultural issue because a lot of Japanese artists do Nft’s and see no issue with it and Japanese fans are supportive of it. It’s sad I wish he didn’t do them but it’s been a long time since him and Mitchie M have done Nft’s so I’ll let it go.

[@bigtub1101]

i agree, it’s pretty scummy to leak something you pirated before it’s released

[@zolline]

Never heard of any of these ! I'm not really active in the online fandom so I don't hear much

[@Chicocrow-of1ns]

hhhiii!!

[@cikashadowpradani2.095]

that Tora V4 mf use AI to tune his cover to make it realistic, someone say this on tiktok, im not sure too since there's no proof about it, and someone ask me "whats wrong with using AI", if its for fun, joke and no harm then idc but using it for money is crazy

[@voidnoidoid]

damn I've been subbed to tora_v4 for some time (since pkakatora) and didn't know about this. I don't watch their vids as much and I stay away from Twitter so ig that's why I had zero idea. They rebranded to a new username recently

[@ri____h3nr628]

Should we be forgetting about the company's? And dang I thought I got into a good communtiy here... *HERE WE GO AGAIN!* *Grabs book* Some people make me mad la la la la! *THOSE PEOPLE ARE GONNA DIE!*

[@SussyBaka23452]

lol, why dont you like the farms? its actually a really fun and cozy place once you get into it

[@sankyumiku]

Should’ve known Tora was homophobic with some of the lyrics in “Electric Chair” I guess 🗿 damn that sucks, I used to like their covers

[@andreasavy7]

Sorry for my ignorance, but what part of that song sounded homophobic?

[@VividMoments2002]

you didnt listen to the song completely DID YOU

[@andreasavy7]

@@VividMoments2002 I didn't listen to that song in a long time, that's why I'm asking :/

[@VividMoments2002]

@@andreasavy7 the first verse. the PREMIER of all verses says "to all the LGBTs, this song is not for you, i'm not mike pence". even though it's indirect, it's still uncalled even for a parody song

[@andreasavy7]

@@VividMoments2002 Mike Pence is a transphobic/homophobic politician no? (I'm not american)