Which Vorsprung Upgrade Is Right for Me?

[@pirelli9186]

...riding the Smashpod in a 180mm RS Lyrik Ultimate in a Specialized Kenevo 2018 E-Bike with Öhlins-Coil at the rear suspension!...it feels so amazing good!...for me, it was a game changer!

[@robertomunoz7309]

This is almost about to be my exact bike! Super stoked!

[@kasparondrej2938]

Smashpot is one of the best upgrades I have ever done! My only wish is to secure the shrinking tape wrapped around the coil in one position permanently. Cheers from Czech Republic and thank you Steve and Vorsprung for amazing products without BS!

[@AndroidBeacshire]

could heat-shrink tubing be used to cover more length of the spring to prevent marring of the stanchions ?

[@ThereIsNoSpoontang]

i know this is 2 years old but poke 2 holes in the warp and ziptie it to the coil? And then maybe a dab of silicone to lock it in place. Should probably stand up to the vibration.

[@chadson5244]

LOVE my luftkappe and got a superb attention from Steve

[@Allsystemsaredown]

A smashpot transformed my Fox 36 (2016 version I think). So much more supple and controllable. Fantastic bit of kit!

[@sportiefbezigutrecht3883]

I ride a Luftkappe in combination with a Debonair B1, in a Pike 2014 (with a MST tuned Charger1). For me it’s great.

[@thatguy2201]

I had a Fox 36 Rhythm, totally transformed into the best fork I'd ridden with a Smashpot. Now riding with a new Lyrik Ultimate, and I have to say it's been a frustrating experience because the Lyrik is definitely not the Ultimate. So much trouble in getting it anywhere near the feel of the upgraded Rhythm. I've been holding off on the Smashpot because it's like, it's a Lyrik Ultimate, but I also know deep down it'll transform the Lyrik into the best thing since sliced bread with a Smashpot. Time to give NSD a call.

[@jaydngr]

These guys are great with customers also We had a problem with air pressure not holding and the guy got in contact with the mechanic installing it and they figured it all out it was pretty cool disguise no there’s stuff in the product felt awesome

[@promodsteve7882]

Great video. PLEASE do more videos.

[@Alanvictoryoung]

Thanks for taking the time for this Steve. I have the Luftkappe first on a fox 36 170mm... loved it. For Christmas I treated my self to the Secus on a 170mm Lyrik: wow even more to enjoy over the Luftkappe (the value king). My next bike is ordered and will come with the Zeb @180mm. If i use the Secus with the Zeb @180mm travel, how much more air pressure do you estimate I can add to yield similar bottom out resistance as compared to stock with no tokens. In my previous experiences with the Luftkappe and Secus, I had the option of reducing or taking out a token to reduce the end ramp to allow more air pressure for more midstroke support: this will not be the case with my future Zeb. I know the Secus also increases lower leg volume but I am having a hard time imagining how much more air pressure I can actually use over stock. I prefer the lighter Secus but if I can’t get close the ~20% increase over stock it may make the heavier smashpot more attractive to me. Any thoughts on this scenario?

[@th_js]

These videos are like a gift from God

[@bangtarights2226]

Agreed

[@yycmtbr5087]

Just put the Luftkappe on my Fox 36 and love it! Keep the great products coming Vorsprung!

[@tenztops4636]

From one bro to another, you got good looks

[@briangong007]

Great explanation..loved my Luftkappe and now all my forks have a Secus

[@jonathanhowson6420]

My smashpot is absolutely amazing! I run a coil upgrade in my forks and a Push Elevensix shock. The bike is so plus and super sensitive. Arm pump is a thing of the past

[@Bmxdad916]

I run the secus on my fox36 and it works great

[@itsalldhfromhere]

As a heavy (110kg kitted) rider on an ebike who likes to jump, big drops and smash down heavy hills, do you recommend the Smashpot or the Secus? Currently have a ZEB select, and will upgrade internals depending on with I coil, or if I get secus, I will upgrade to buttercup internals as well. Love the pop/ playfullness of an airspring, but wondering if coil would be better suited for my weight? I just dont want to lose the predictability of an airspring and bottom out on big hits.

[@tehllama42]

Worth the wait, but would love to have more content of any flavor - if it's easier to just record a discussion between you and another rider or somebody knowledgeable, we'd love that too.

[@tobiasdonner6268]

I really like your videos, excellent content! I learned a lot! (tiny comment to "...coil springs, you're literally bending a piece of metal...": this is not correct, the determining type of stress in a compression spring is torsion and not bending) nerd mode off.

[@nathantoney.1501]

Hi Steve. Has RS updated the hsr circuit on the new forks? Meaning a shim stack NOT that terrible “rapid rise” check valve…

[@spuddo123]

Unrelated to the video, but what would be the difference between fixed and variable valves force wise? What kind of equation defines both of their force-velocity graphs?

[@steveedwards5280]

Interesting video, thanks. Really interested in your comment about springs being the limiting factor in forks rather than the damper. I'm currently struggling to get my '21 Lyrik feeling as compliant as it should. HSC and LSC both wide open and running about 20% less are than recommended for my 190lbs but still can't get a compliant feel. I've resized the bushings (didn't need much, certainly not as much as others I've done). I've been considering a damper upgrade next but you've now got me wondering if I should be looking at the spring side first. Even if I were to run a spring assisted damper and lower the air pressure in the spring side, I guess there's still pretty much the same seal friction to overcome (it's not going to vary much with respect to pressure, is it). I'd be interested in your thoughts.

[@heirilosman4926]

Listen to 10:10 to 10:52. Thank you Steve!

[@vanniubi]

Do a video on smashpot installation

[@craigmellin6217]

That's what she said

[@VorsprungSuspension]

@@johnnyweekend Weird how you haven't seen any pro riders using our products, wonder if that's related to the fact that we don't pay anyone to ride our stuff. Maybe you should ask some EWS pro mechanics what percentage of the riders to ever win an EWS has ever run Luftkappes in their forks despite being paid by Fox or Rockshox. Why only the Luftkappes and not the Secus or Smashpot? Because you can't see any sign of those from the outside. It's very cool that you've developed the skills to assess suspension performance by watching a video of someone riding. I can't do that, nor can any of the dozens of people I talk to daily who tune suspension for a living, so maybe you can come and teach us a few things! But by the time you've posted 3 times in as many minutes on a single video to trash talk our products without any specific critique or insight into them, let alone experience with them, I have to wonder whether you really have any meaningful contributions here. You seem to be a little annoyed that we don't market things the conventional way. Maybe you'd find it more appealing if I threw in a few meaningless buzz words like "Redefining ride dynamics" or "action is everything"? Since apparently openly discussing the advantages and disadvantages of your own products is "marketing crap"...

[@VorsprungSuspension]

​@@johnnyweekend ahah right, this all makes a lot more sense now. I'm sorry you feel I was harsh in pointing out the flawed (to say the least) claims in the Mullet Cycles PR and marketing. I don't have a dog in that fight, because for starters, we don't make bikes (unlike other bike companies who Mullet's accounts picked fights with in the same comment thread!) - why would I care to criticise a press release from a company I don't know, have no involvement with (I don't even know the owner's name/s let alone the person/people involved), and don't compete with, unless their claims were so outwardly absurd and untrue that they actually justified calling them out in public? I don't want to tear people down for no reason - I don't doubt they put their heart and soul into the bikes with a significant amount of work over a long period of time. I didn't say their design "can't work", you are being very dishonest with your misquotes there - the suspension will go up and down and the bike will be rideable. Nobody has ever claimed otherwise. I said there was a general consensus throughout the industry that falling rates were a terrible idea. That's not just my opinion, and the proof is in the fact that plenty of bike designers with a lot more experience than those guys have tried it, noted its deficiencies, and ditched it. We made absolutely zero mention of our own products or services in the comments on that press release. Meanwhile, the Mullet guys created a bunch of fake accounts that got banned from Vital, along with posting veiled threats and shit talk about Foes Racing among others. And now here we are, with some suspiciously similar angry rants from an unrelated anonymous account, but who is definitely someone else not affiliated with Mullet. Pioneers? You do realise that exact kind of falling rate design has been tried plenty of times by numerous companies over the years right? That alone I wouldn't have actually criticised in public, because even though I have significant experience with that kind of suspension design (unlike your attempts to criticise our products despite no understanding of the concepts nor actual experience with them), I don't care if someone wants to make and sell bikes that don't perform well or don't ride a particular way - it's their business and generally speaking they'll learn what works for them one way or another. What I do care about is when people just flat out make shit up and put down other competitors' designs without being able to justify or quantify their claims in any way - especially when they have physics claims that are actually just flat out false. They did plenty of that. Funnily enough, after the EWS in 2017 was dominated by Rockshox-sponsored riders using the Luftkappe to enlarge their negative chambers, the next year Rockshox AND Fox both enlarged their negative chambers too. Imagine that! And then Fox went further again in their 2021 air springs. Almost the same as how the Corset pushed them both in that direction with their air cans years earlier. But you're clearly right, our ideas, products and methodologies are dumb and nobody would ever legitimise them by copying or learning from them. Man, we had to create a LOT of fake accounts to come up with all the fake positive testimonials below this video alone. Your straw man arguments about tuning are amusing. Of course we ride test stuff to a huge degree - what a strange assertion to claim that we wouldn't. Correlation between actual dyno testing, calculations and on-trail testing is a huge part of what we do. Do you know what we're currently working on? Clearly you do not. Very odd that you think you can predict the fate of our business without that insight, especially after mentioning Race Tech in one breath in an attempt to validate someone's credentials, then "suspension tuning business model will be obsolete in 2 years" in the next. You should probably let Paul Thede know that KYB, Showa and WP are about to put him out of business. Likewise with Avalanche, Fast, etc etc. In actual fact I'm stoked and excited to see what Fox, Rockshox, Ohlins etc create over the next few years. I'm sure they'll raise the bar, and I look forward to working with their products. The better the starting point they give us, the better the end result we'll be able to generate.

[@vanniubi]

Can we all live in peace

[@VorsprungSuspension]

@@vanniubi you're right. My apologies for letting that devolve into that kind of a mess.

[@essexhertsmtb]

Hi Steve - great vid. does the Secus fit the Zeb. Is it the A2 footstud version?

[@VorsprungSuspension]

Yes it does, and yes the Rockshox A2 footstud is the one you'll need.

[@pauls1128]

Great video. In 0:56 to 1:15 you essentially describe what a Mantiou Mezzer Pro is trying to achieve using a second positive air chamber and HBC. Have you compare its performance to your products with Fox/Rockshox? I understand that the Mezzer is potentially competition but reckon in the big picture not significant as bike companies are not going to be in a rush to switch from Fox/Rockshox forks... PS For context, I have a Fox 36 with Smashpot on one bike and recently put a Mezzer Pro on a newer build. Not ridden the latter much yet due to snow but I find it very promising.

[@tylerbruce5731]

The Mezzer has what one *should* expect a pro fork has at a minimum. The real issue is mtbers have such low low expectations which is crazy when you consider that mtbs can easily cost more that frigging motorbikes. Rockshox and Fox absolutely play off these low expectation, they take short cuts, reuse/recycle old tech because no one demands more of them. I had to put a Luftkappe into my 2018 Lyrik just to get it to work *properly*. I either had to have high psi for proper support or low psi for proper plushness. No damper upgrade/revalving would matter until the airspring was sorted out. I dont consider that upgrading, its literally just making my fork work properly. Theres a whole industry out their dedicated to getting RS and Fox just to work properly. Thats not even getting into actually tuning (revalving/shimstacks).

[@tylerbruce5731]

@@johnnyweekend if mtbers had high expectations, then high end forks or should I say the highest end forks such as the Fox 36/38 and the RS Lyrik/Zeb ultimates would have features found on forks like the Mezzers. Fox and RS get away with doing the bare minimum because there is "no demand" for it. And thus you have these types of products to make up for the short comings for the few riders that expect more. But that ridiculous when you consider that many of these types of products are come stock on other forks or even have been made to be stock eg new Debonair piston in my 2020 Lyrik Ultimate negated the need to swap over the Luftkappe I had to have in my 2018 Lyriks to make them work. And I do ride every weekend so Im not sure what your point is.

[@tylerbruce5731]

@@johnnyweekend lol cool story bro.

[@tylerbruce5731]

@@johnnyweekend youre welcome. 👍

[@rolux4853]

@@johnnyweekend Good Lord what a dumbass you are. Confusing damping with the air spring... classic! If you’ve ever ridden a high end product like a Formula Selva Fork or the EXT Suspension Era Fork, you would understand what he is talking about. Mountainbikers really are dumb in accepting such low standards! The Air springs are absolutely ridiculous on Fox/Rockshox products! They got a bit better, yes. But the friction still destroys the ride quality.. If you’ve ridden a good fork like the Formula/Ext just once in your life, you’d never ever want to go back to a Standard Fox or Rockshox product. It’s ridiculous that you need to upgrade your negative air chamber on a fork that alread costs a thousand dollars! P.s.: your name suits you pretty well Mr. Weekend Warrior

[@Allsystemsaredown]

Hey Steve, any thoughts on rebound damping effect when comparing a linear coil with a progressive air spring? Is the damper response tolerant to the greater variation in loads with a progressive spring or is it easier to get it consistent across the range with a coil? It would be an interesting Tuesday Tune...(I miss them).

[@VorsprungSuspension]

Great question! It is indeed a bit easier to get it consistent with a dead linear spring rate than with a progressive one. However, some people prefer the proportionally less-damped end stroke feel for a more poppy bike, which comes at the expense of some deep stroke stability too.

[@lonelymtbrider3369]

Hey Steve, gotta say I absolutely love my smashpot, it's such an awesome upgrade. Expensive yes, but it totally transforms the fork. One issue though, it has a slight topout noise after rebounding from deep in the travel . I run pretty fast rebound, about 6 clicks from open (Lyrik w charger 2). If I add about 2 clicks of rebound the noise stops, but I want the rebound fast for a more playful ride.I checked the spring preload and it seems ok. Is this normal or anything to worry about?

[@VorsprungSuspension]

Shoot us an email with the details of the spring you're running and your rebound settings and we'll get you sorted!

[@n34r02]

I recently found an almost unused 2013 Fox 34 TALAS CTD Evolution (cc4s) among my spare parts. Serviced it, straped it to my remedy butit is quite underwhelming. Are any of your products compatible with this very fork? Fox themselves do not seem to sell upgrade kits anymore.

[@shredandenjoy7311]

Any recommendations or opinions for heavier riders? I'm a heavier fellow and I'm noticing on air shocks especially on higher leverage ratio shocks (more travel to stroke) that small bump compliance all but goes away at the necessary high pressures bikes with say 150 rear travel with 55mm stroke require. Curious if any of this translates to forks!

[@MrChadLedford]

I still can’t make up my mind for my 170mm lyrik ultimate. I sure do like coil shock, but the secus sounds sweet too. Someone help haha

[@BADBILLY]

did you make a decision? which way did you go?

[@evo5349]

Smashpot fox 36 superb, do you do a coil conversion for 2021 Boxxer fork.

[@VorsprungSuspension]

We don't, sorry!

[@Lou-f]

Got anything for the grip 1 damper on rhythm fork to work with my smash pot? Edit: ha should have watched the full vid first. Any recommendations on wiper seals or oil recommendations for the rhythm, already upped the oil weight a tad.

[@VorsprungSuspension]

The stock Fox/SKF ones are great. Racing Bros Lycan 36mm seals are also good. Oil - pretty well any lower leg bath oil will work well, eg 20wt Gold, WPL ShockBoost 20wt, Rockshox/Maxima 0W30. In low temps (around freezing) consider a thinner oil like the Fox PTFE 5wt or WPL 5wt. This is not an exhaustive list, but the long and the short of it is that it'll work well with any oil that's a decent lower leg lubricant.

[@Lou-f]

@@VorsprungSuspension cool

[@livefreeandshred9818]

Luftkappe vs new RS debonair ?

[@custombicycleperformance1745]

Здравствуйте! Я из России смотрю ваши видеоролики и мне очень интересно! 👍 Мне всегда нравились винтовые пружины больше чем воздушные пружины. Но почему у Вас нет титановых пружин?! 🤔 это слишком дорого?

[@chadsugden411]

can u put a Luftkappe in a fox 36 rythm ?

[@herlinastevens9474]

is there a smash p[ot kit for the 190mm zeb

[@BADBILLY]

I think they top out at 180mm

[@tylerbruce5731]

Just buy a Mezzer. As much as I love these things its absolutely ridiculous that Fox and RS "need" upgrading after spending $$$ on the forks in the first place.

[@paweslusarczyk1056]

they don't

[@VorsprungSuspension]

I guess now is also a good time to mention that we had a Manitou distributor in another country ask us to make a Smashpot for the Mezzer literally today... Anyway, "just buy a ____" doesn't really work for people who buy complete bikes that don't come with whatever your fork of choice is though, and the fact that upgrades exist doesn't mean the stock product is bad - in fact it's quite the opposite, we only make upgrades for products that are already good enough to be worth investing in, and you should maybe have a look at the high end products we DON'T offer tuning or upgrades for as for some indication of our opinions on quality (as well as market share - we aren't going to develop tuning products/services for something that is made in quantities of 10 a year obviously). There are plenty of products out there that we don't try to tune because for it to do what we want, we'd have to replace so much stuff that it would never be cost effective. Besides that, nothing "needs" upgrading, by my estimates it's around 0.1% of MTB riders who choose to upgrade anything whatsoever about their suspension and that indicates that 99.9% of people out there are happy enough with their stock stuff. I'm glad that you're happy with your Mezzer, but I guarantee it could be better than it is, just like every single other product in any industry on earth. Not sure why it's so strange to you that people would want to make something they already own perform better!

[@superchickensoup]

The luftkappe is really the best value upgrade on the market, but I'm now on a Smashpot ❤

[@thecount1001]

godammit Steve, when are you going to come out with a steel spring that's as light as air, get on it man.

[@VorsprungSuspension]

hahah I'd love to be able to do that, unfortunately our current knowledge of the laws of physics does not provide an obvious pathway to that particular technology.

[@jawzzy3]

@@VorsprungSuspension Hey could we get your thoughts on the new DHX and Float X shocks in a future video? Not much in terms of reviews or comparing them to dhx2 and float x2 out there. Or maybe no one can get them yet.