Why You Shouldn’t Use a Weighted Gun Vise to Sight-In Your Riflescope

[@benjaminsalmons7253]

I've use a sled to sight countless rifles, no issues and no POI issues after. It definitely cuts down on how many rounds needed to zero. The rifle will do it's job, how well it does it depends on the person behind it.

[@elliottmaendel4686]

Small calibers like 65creed and 243 308 ect won't have a problem it's usually with the larger magnums that hav3 problems like 300win mag 7mm rum ect

[@mhatter6332]

I sold my sled, I could never get the rifle locked in tight enough that it had no movement. I bought a bench bag to use on the butt, and a bipod on the front, and had much, much, much better results😄😄😄

[@elliottmaendel4686]

@mhatter6332 yeah bags and bipod see good

[@Gearsofchocolate]

I have been using a lead sled for years. I just don't add any weight to it or strap my gun down in anyway. Its basically just used as a rest and still allows the gun to recoil freely. Haven't had any issues.

[@otm646]

1:41 that's EXACTLY the point. You are using the sled to determine the mechanical accuracy of your rifle with factory ammunition or developed loads. The purpose is to eliminate the human from the system. That you don't understand this is not a good sign.

[@prone_wolf8871]

So good they use them in bechrest right hahhaha...how come bechrest guys don't use them

[@brandonyoung7760]

Thanks for letting us know how to find out if we got a well built Vortex scope or not... just sight it in with a lead slead.

[@brandonyoung7760]

@sierrapeaks8838 sounds like you ain't worth af at sighting in a scope to me.

[@sierrapeaks8838]

@@brandonyoung7760 yeah well my vortex came with the elevation dial on the windage and windage on the elevation out the box so piss poor quality control coming from China But hell I bought a cheap throw away crossfire 2. Like I said my 900 leupold amazing glass and clarity 10 min 100 yards with 300 win mag 1/4” consistently. Crossfire 2, groups aren’t consistent doesn’t hold zero. They’re over priced Chinese crap.

[@JohnyBravo44]

Negative, keep using your sled. It’s the best way to find out which loads group best out of your particular rifle. AFTER, you have your winning load, re zero shooting as you would it real life - prone most likely and of the bipod to obtain Point Of Aim - Point Of Impact zero. Vortex is worried that the hard stop of the sled versus more amortized / cushioned recoil shock stop of your shoulder; will damage the reticle. That is precisely why you should spend extra $ and purchase higher end scopes - you get what you pay for.

[@newkeepon]

This is the answer. NF isn't gonna walk on you.

[@timothym2241]

It does increase the shock load between the action and stock, by providing a more solid resistance to recoil. I don’t however think this results in more shock to a scope or scope mount system, if anything it would be less. It may alter the point of impact slightly, as the gun doesn’t recoil the same way as simply backed up by your shoulder.

[@jeffcornett4290]

Bullshit. The sled will eliminate shooter error and reduce the amount of ammo required to get your rifle zeroed. This video actually reduces the credibility of Vortex.

[@hughb5092]

The Lead Sled has an invaluable purpose for us older shooters - it allows us to enjoy our high caliber rifles and shotguns. I place foam padding between the butt stock and holder to allow the gun to move some under recoil thereby reducing stress on the firearm and optics.

[@dudley5658]

Leave the lead sled attached when hunting.

[@RonnyPacksss]

hahahaha

[@albosarge7282]

We have been using lead sleds for over 20 years. The only scope we have ever had any issue with is vortex. We have never had an issue with the parts of any rifle or scope mounts but every vortex scope we have shot in the sled breaks. So we no longer use vortex.

[@dometriuspollard9330]

🤣

[@KingTerrorgott]

Riiiight

[@anonvideos8438]

Sounds like bull

[@sierrapeaks8838]

Right on Leupold

[@unit0007]

What is this crackpot physics? 😸 There is no "shock" that travels through the "path of least resistance". There is this thing, that we non-crackpots like to call "change in momentum", that the bullet imparts on the bolt. Bolt then transfers that change through the locking lugs to the receiver and barrel. From there the energy is distributed among the various masses connected, and it tends to favor the path of MOST resistance. Meaning that the connections with highest inertia will absorb most of the energy. If you have nothing behind a gun when it goes off, all of that change in momentum is going to go into stuff attached to the gun. If you have a heavy human behind the stock, then most of it is gonna go into the human, putting less stress on your scope etc. But if you have a sled that is bolted to the ground, then nearly all of that change in momentum is gonna go to the planet Earth, for it has a lot of inertia. The problem occurs when you have "play" in your sled setup. When the rifle has room to accelerate freely backwards, only to impact with the sled, causing a second rapid change in momentum, but in the opposite direction.

[@jamesokeefe697]

yeah no offense to vortex but this guy sounds like he has no understanding of physics at all. he probably couldnt tell you the equation or unit for work or energy or even momentum

[@JJ-iu5hl]

Pretty sure the force gets transferred to the sled and the ground, not the components of the rifle hardware. That's the point of the sled.

[@rw7594]

The Lead Sled i just bought is not a vice at all. I certainly won't stap down the rifle. The sled has some decent padding at the rear and along with the recoil pad of the rifle, should do just fine. With nothing clamping the rifle down, how is this really going to damage anything? A Lead Sled is simply a heavy shooting rest. The padding is good and without strapping the barrel down, it still allows for muzzle jump. A vice may be a different story. I'll only use my sled to determine what ammo the rifle groups best with. After that, practice happens with real world shooting conditions.

[@timsears553]

Could you guys do a slow motion comparison of a skilled shooter with and without a lead sled (or similar) rest?

[@VortexOpticsUSA]

That would really demonstrate it well! We'll see what we can do!

[@golfnolsen]

@@VortexOpticsUSA I've had a lot of success with my rifles and the Lead Sled, but I definitely agree with what you are saying. What happens now? Do you think my POI changes using sand bags or (real life hunting scenarios)? Thus, do i have to redo my zero?

[@VortexOpticsUSA]

@@golfnolsen It certainly could - we would definitely recommend shooting off of different rests to see if your zero is impacted.

[@StuninRub]

They can't because recoil does not affect the bullet leaving the barrel. This guy is speaking out of his ass.

[@travisnorton9097]

Idk what better way there is or alternate for checking to see if inaccuracies are the shooter or the gun.

[@DjMaximalCRO]

Just Sled without weight's and let it recoil..Where it's problem?

[@radchad992]

Someone feel free to correct me if recoil is that much of an issue to an optic isn’t it a bad optic. Like the product should be over engineered to an extent

[@RJ-qq8kb]

Great information. Makes sense. Thanks!

[@stuntcsra2252]

I’ve been using a lead sled for years and every time I sight in a rifle I question why I even have it, I hate using it. Went and got me a good set of bags today

[@troybrake5686]

What i always done was get and old tire and set my gun on it, strap it to the tire on top of a plastic pinic table is what i use, the weight of the tire take alot of the impact out of it and you can hold pretty much dead nuts and get good groups, this way the tire can slide just a little and the ol shoulder doesn't take a pounding like suzy in highschool 🎉, i can see vortex being not happy if there customers are ancoring to something solid and letting all that impact jirate through the scope, people say buy more expensive, call any top brand and they would say the same, blows my mind how people's answer is i throw more money at it, in this economy vortex has helped alot of hunters have a quality scope for very reasonable price, i have one and it's clean glass!! We all can't afford scopes higher than our rifles! Be realistic people!

[@vetsunite]

Non-reciprocating mass absorbs a lot of energy. Thats why a lightweight rifle "kicks" so hard. You could add a 8 oz weight on a rifle & the decreased "kick" is noticeable. Same principle applies with a lead sled. So tell us again how it's detrimental to ANYTHING.

[@camelothis]

"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is."

[@barts208]

Never have used one but this is a great video.

[@JumpinJerry]

Who doesn't shoot after using a Lead Sled or similar? The guys who shoot the day before the gun opener. lol

[@dreww.43]

Well this is a bummer considering I just bought a lead sled to help zero in my rifle. I would love to know your thoughts on if adding a few inches of insulation to the rear stock holder on a lead sled (some type of foam) would be a good compromise so you can get the stability but still allow for a more natural recoil backwards. I really would love to use the lead sled to pick out which different cartridge of ammo groups best with my gun as well as zeroing in whatever ammo that may be. Thoughts would be much appreciated!!!!

[@VortexOpticsUSA]

It could certainly help, but still not ideal. To fully absorb the recoil it would have to be pretty thick/firm foam to ensure the stock doesn't just push right through. Using sandbags and a bipod is a much better option.

[@scaedugenga79]

Even if you could completely divert the recoil-based forces from the rifle mounted in the sled, you'd still most likely find that what groups well for you in a semi-benchrest format won't group well from the shoulder; your basic breathing will immediately introduce a margin for error that you didn't have with the sled. Rather than spend some more money on sandbags, though, take a look through your older clothes. If you have some old jeans or cargo pants that are nearing the end of their days, cut the legs off, double them up, tie and end off and pack it with sand. The sandbags you make this way will let you better control the effective height, and provide a shooting platform you can reasonably take into the field with you. The Caldwell shooting bags are great - If you have an adjustable height table, or have it set up at exactly the perfect height - but they don't allow for much customization.

[@JohnyBravo44]

Negative, keep using your sled. It’s the best way to find out which loads group best out of your particular rifle. AFTER, you have your winning load, re zero shooting as you would it real life - prone most likely and of the bipod to obtain Point Of Aim - Point Of Impact zero. Vortex is worried that the hard stop of the sled versus more amortized / cushioned recoil shock stop of your shoulder; will damage the reticle. That is precisely why you should spend extra $ and purchase higher end scopes - you get what you pay for.

[@albosarge7282]

@@JohnyBravo44 a midrange anything will outlast a topend vortex

[@trailboy68]

Great video, Thanks!

[@fbwguy]

Great video. Very logical and truthful points

[@ronws2007]

So, this is my second time to watch this video. I think the only use for a vice or lead sled is for a bench gun. However, I hunt and I need to zero and group the way that I hunt. I hunt with a tripod, sitting or standing, with the buttstock against my shoulder. So, at the range, I try to mimick that with bipods resting on an old towel I bring along. And the buttstock resting against my shoulder. And left elbow on the table at the indoor range and the back of my left hand under the bottom of the buttstock. And my Vortex Venom on the rifle. I love that scope. The reticle looks good to me. I wear presciption no line bifocals and the eye relief fits me right. So, I get a good zero and this last Saturday, I checked again the zero on my 7 PRC and grouped a 3 shot at .57 inches (.55 MOA) from cold barrel with a mean radius of .26 inches from PoA. Scopes are not intended to recoil against an immovable object. They are designed for use with a human. Jimmy is right.

[@TitoNavarro85]

You lost me on the “shoot with your rifle for zero”. I took that part as: if you’re a bad shot, then your sight zero should match your bad shot habits. That doesn’t make sense. If anything a solid zero sight is one less thing to worry about for a person that lacks shooting ability. Edit/add: it just seems like all conjecture; how do we know the recoil isn’t going to the vise grip stand/sled?

[@VortexOpticsUSA]

Great question. Using a lead sled will remove the natural recoil of your firearm and potentially cause damage to the rifle itself and/or any accessories on it like a riflescope. Although, in theory, a lead sled will remove human error, that doesn't allow any improvement in your shot or replicate any scenarios where you might be firing your rifle. Example: You wouldn't be taking a lead sled hunting. There are of course tools that you can use to mitigate human error (sand bags, bench rests etc), that are a little more practical for the range and hunting, but still let the rifle recoil. You'll also be able to improve your shooting skills when using these without risk of damaging the firearm or optics/accessories that are on it.

[@StuninRub]

@@VortexOpticsUSA That's total bullshit the recoil does not affect the bullet leaving the barrel. Stop speaking out of your ass.

[@cb777-t1l]

POI is different from a lead sled-fired rifle compared to the same rifle fired from the shoulder. I found this out the first time I sighted a rifle in with a lead sled and then missed an easy shot at a buck. When I later fired the rifle from my shoulder at a target, the POI was over 1 foot to the right. I never used lead sled again.

[@StuninRub]

That's just because you are a bad shooter.

[@swampwhiteoak1]

Bad shooting skills. Blame yourself not the equipment.

[@newkeepon]

Probably your $100 scope

[@albosarge7282]

I wouldn’t tell everyone out loud how bad I shoot without a prop🤣

[@ronws2007]

@@newkeepon One question. Asking for a friend. What brand was the $100 scope? Vortex has no riflescope that is only $100. So, what brand were you thinking about.

[@screamingeagle7704]

Its good for zeroing.

[@2000grover]

1st. Vortex right on point

[@Bigbuck198]

Unless u use 100lb of lead do you think the rest really allows zero recoil.. no

[@jki808]

First of all, with that logic then how do muzzle brakes or compensators affect the gun? Some of these guys have 10 inch suppressed barrels that they wrench down and shoot flat, you’re telling me like 30 rounds in a sled is worse than thousands of rounds of the alternative? Second, why not just use the sled without having it pinned down? Just let it rest snug so it doesn’t move on it’s own but still let it recoil. Third, I actually can’t believe you let the entire argument of “it’s not good practice” in the video 😂 what a shit point.

[@jamesokeefe697]

yeah, youre using the sled to zero the gun. not to practice. what a stupid thing to say

[@tylerhall6455]

Hmm Sounds wrong to me. I'm super surprised to see this video from vortex. I found this vid because I'm now looking for a sled to sight in my razor 1-6... Your not using the sled for 1000s or even 100s of rounds. Its just used to sight in the rifle thats it. Wonder if all the other folks at vortex agree with this guy!?

[@alexandercalder2143]

The use of a sled MAY damage the rifle or optic, I don't know. But it should give you a perfect zero.

[@briondionetoler]

Good knowledge

[@redtobertshateshandles]

Where's your AI voice??? Thanks for being in person. Appreciated.

[@jeffmurphy9987]

Just my opinion Vortex is full of young people that mean well but shoot their mouths more than think about what they’re saying. Just an old country boy here but been shooting hunting for 50 years and if laying a rifle on a sandbag hurts it well you should buy better equipment. I don’t care what most people say but that hardwood stock is much tougher than anything plastic or man made. I’ve had both now everything I own wears a walnut stock.

[@johnedwards4176]

The music does nothing for the video 🎵🎵🎵 as people with hearing issues can't tell 🎵 🎵 🎵 what you are saying .

[@TheHikuky]

Thanks, very good.👍

[@VortexOpticsUSA]

You're welcome!

[@joshpritchard398]

This guy is full of sheet as a Christmas goose. There is so much wrong with some of the stuff he said that I had to watch it again. Different strokes for different folks. I will continue to shoot off of my lead sled and be just fine. Sell crazy somewhere else, I'm all stocked up here

[@usmc6157]

Sounds like absolute bullshit to me!

[@SoSwiff]

Agreed

[@josh4901]

The comments saved me here…

[@DarkShooper]

you are wrong

[@WinnebagoBrewingCo]

Lame video