Why Shooting from a Gun Vise is a Bad Idea

This snippet is from our full episode 38 where we dive in on "How to Sight in Your Riflescope - It’s Easy!"
For more information on the while sight in process, you can find the full episode right her- • Ep. 38 | Semi-Live: Ho...
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[@jetrobodiners2644]

Never had any issues with a gun vice and a Leupold Scopes.

[@user-eg8hb8xt3j]

I’ve seen thousands of rounds shot from sleds at the range and zero damage to rifles

[@bradbo3]

Very good video......The only time my gun is in a vise is when Im working on it...leveling a scope or even cleaning it. You guys clearly state why its a bad idea.....its not good for your gun. Then the point of impact could be different.....I amazes me that so many dont comprehend what you clearly stated about the damage you can do to the rifle or scope. Even what time of year and what you are wearing can effect your shot....length of pull could be off due to a thicker coat etc. I try to shoot in what I will be wearing (if possible) and I always shoot the same ammo to zero as im using in the field.

[@darklight4815]

i don't see a problem with a rifle that has little to no recoil like a 22lr,17hmr, or even a 5.56...big bore rifles i can see the concern with jarring recoil but small calibers maybe not...but hey,i'm not a professional

[@edwinmcnew4389]

Great advice!

[@siriusmyst5310]

This story applys to VISE but not to the REST although in some parts you are clearly talking about rests. Rests like Caldwell Lead Sled will give much consistent results comparing to v-shaped bag especially for new shooters and it will not make different shot group if shot from rifle outside that rest.

[@randykoster6587]

Agreed. And bringing a bow into the conversation is irrelevant too. Rifle and archery are two completely different disciplines.

[@stylisgames]

I was about to make the same comment about Caldwell lead sleds. I have one myself and it works just fine.

[@adamlong54]

Bull pucks. I have never had a single issues sighting in my rifles in a rifle sled strapped down and perfectly zeroed and then shoot it with out it I still hit bullseye . My 7mm rem Mag bullet goes wherever you place the cross hairs at 100 yards. Hole in hole and one inch groups at 300 yards.

[@lblomeli4908]

I would like to see a controlled test on this. If any one can do it is this guys

[@tetleyT]

1:23 sounded like that was about to be an important tip ... 😅

[@Goojy-Gooj]

...learning. Much obliged.

[@long-range-eliminator]

Sad part about this video, they never mentioned sighting in on lead sled, then shooting off bags how far the poa shifts !

[@mikelohmeyer4140]

The vice only needs to be strong enough to hold the trigger pressure so nothing moves

[@Username18981]

Basically like firing a bow without an arrow leaving the bow limbs to absorb all the extra force the arrow was supposed to take. As long as the rifle can naturally move to the recoil then no problem with rests.

[@brandonyoung7760]

Bs

[@nonie7859]

How come you’re not showing the target result. I thought the purpose of this video is to the accuracy of this device.

[@shitsngiggles8371]

The main reason not to zero out of a vice is there will be a point of impact shift when you take it out of the vice and shoot it from your shoulder. A good use for the vice is for load development so you eliminate human error and then after load development you would want to take it out of the vice and site it in off your shoulder. After saying all that I do not use a vice for anything because like said in this video the shooter needs to learn his rifle and you cant do that shooting from a vice.

[@sunnesonne]

I don’t like vices, but how can a poi shift, if you don’t alter barrel harmonics in any way when bullets leaves the barrel, and recoil happens after it’s already gone, lol no, vice allows you to zero it better than most of the people can, because of the shooter error. Gun will not shoot into the different direction if other person takes it and shoots, same with vice and person shooting it afterwards, same with free recoil and actually holding the rifle, poa shifts if you compromise free float and harmonics, or beat the rifle/scope

[@nicholashodges201]

Kind of my thinking. These are really more of a gunsmith's tool for final adjustments & testing, not for training. You won't have a vice on a battlefield, nor are you going to drag one out to your blind or stand. Learn to shoot HOW you plan on expect to shoot IRL. If you always use a vise, you can't actually shoot. Those who want to express their 2A but have physical issues that make it difficult are *explicitly* excluded from this statement. As shown by the quadriplegic vet who's family turned his wheel chair into a mobile gun platform capable of taking any of his firearms, do want you gotta do.

[@SuAmigoElilegal]

I shot my rifle from bench with no sandbag and no bipod . I rest it on what I can and what I have at the moment. At 100 yards I get pretty good shots but nothing like using those locking devices or even sandbags but you get really close by practicing. When you do it like this, its very challenging and u see that every inch or hair you breath it makes your shot accountable , but it is way more fun than anything

[@TrueBlueYou]

We zero equipment first-then we work on techniques

[@gregfine]

Not true. The energy that normally goes into pushing the gun backwards is redirected to the projectile going forward

[@johnpaton8047]

You should remove your bipod before you shoot. It will adversely impact your rest. You don't really need cheek weld or sustained shoulder pressure. Both will adversely affect your shot.

[@nicholashodges201]

I've noticed overstressing minutiae like that has become a thing. What happened to "relax and get comfortable"? By overstating things like "cheek weld" & "sustained ANYTHING pressure" it encourages the shooter to be tensed and fatigue themselves much faster. Much more important is consistency of sight picture and not tensing. Your posture is secondary as long as you can consistently hit your marks

[@mossymaple]

WHY DO COMPANIES EVEN SELL THEM ? LOL... WORSE YET, WHY DONT THEY WARN CUSTOMERS ABOUT SHOCK FROM USING THEM?LOL...

[@ec9697]

The stronger the round the worse it is to use a vise! Lead sled doesn’t absorb the recoil Like sandbags ..it damages the gun!

[@CVEIWKID]

It's not like its actually bolted to a table and most vises only weigh a few pounds.

[@JO-xy6tp]

So if you’re a new shooter, would it be better to ask a good shooter to check your zero rather than shoot from a vise? How does a new shooter account for two variables: the gun being zeroed and one’s technique while getting started. I understand that shooting from the vise is a bad idea as it is stiffer than the body/shoulder and will not absorb the recoil force in the same manner. Much like lightning, those forces will find the path of least resistance and that may be delicate parts of the gun otherwise unaffected when shot normally or from a rest.

[@nicholashodges201]

First start with iron sights, not a scope. You crawl before you walk and walk before you run. Iron sights teach you the basics of marksmanship without the multitude of variables that scope bring in and those lessons carry over to all optics. Next get a bore laser. These fit the chamber and project a beam from your rifles business end allowing you to set your initial zero, which WILL change when start shooting, this is just to install and set you up to zero. If you are secure in the basics and are consistent without an optic then you don't *need* anyone to check your zero. You will be hitting consistently with a good zero. Lastly nobody can "check your zero". Everyone's eyes are physically different, which means a perfect zero for you is going to result in someone else accidentally shooting down a helicopter. That's why things like vise's & bore lasers are only good for installing the optics. Your eye isn't actually being used

[@davidshuff8838]

Whether you’re shooting from a vice or a bipod or anything else for that matter the rifle needs to be able to recoil. The energy generated from the explosion has to be given a place to go.

[@user-eg8hb8xt3j]

Thanks captain obvious

[@davidshuff8838]

@@user-eg8hb8xt3j I knew dumbasses like you would appreciate it.

[@dankuchar6821]

Logic of this video is incredibly flawed! The point of shooting from the vice is to make sure the rifle is hitting where it is aimed. It has nothing to do with you and the rifle working together. If the rifle isn't shooting strait, then how do you know how to aim your rifle? You shoot from the bench vice to zero the rifle. Then you practice without it. It's not rocket science.

[@VortexNation]

There are very many other ways that you can ensure the gun is shooting where you are aiming and the shooter's interaction with the gun and scope is absolutely a part of that - it can 100% change once the shooter takes the gun out of the vice. The other really important factor (Probably more important and the biggest reason we recommend against using them) that was mentioned here is the fact that weighted shooting vices are extremely brutal on the firearm and all its accessories and can easily cause catastrophic failure to a shooter's equipment. In the field, guns are rarely, if ever, shot from a shooting vise. They are also meant to recoil freely. Letting them do so during your sight in process and shooting at the range is a good idea

[@dankuchar6821]

@@VortexNation Yeah but personally, before I try to go out and shoot something with my rifle, I want to make sure that the rifle actually hits where the sights are pointed. That's kind of a no-brainer. Then maybe I'll work on my personal interaction with the rifle itself, after I've eliminated the variable of the rifle. Doing otherwise is kind of like taking a lopsided baseball and trying to become a good pitcher. Before you work on perfecting that perfect pitch, maybe you should have a baseball that will be as perfectly consistent as possible. Before you work on your interaction with the rifle, make sure the rifle is as perfectly consistent as possible. The best way to do that is to take the human out of the equation. It's hard to eliminate variables when you have other variables that are causing a greater discrepancy in precision. Would you shoot a rifle with inconsistent ammo, or would you try to get your ammo as consistent as possible before you try to shoot as accurately as you can? It's very hard to eliminate variables concerning why you're not hitting the target when you don't even know if the rifle is hitting perfectly or not. With all that said, once you have your rifle shooting is accurately as possible, then you must figure out how to shoot it and have it work with you! Some rifles don't fit some shooters, and that's extremely important to find one that matches you. The importance of actually practicing with your firearm, once you've got it zeroed, is difficult to overstate, I believe. Just my opinion.

[@goosecouple]

@@dankuchar6821 👍

[@wallacegrommet3479]

Gun vise is for cleaning and maintenance, shooting you use a rest. If your rifle needs to take out your shoulder it’s time to put away firearm and go back to your red rider.

[@CVEIWKID]

This is absolutely false bad info.

[@dova8985]

Yes indeed dummies they are

[@tacraheennc9719]

Yes I agree it holds it steady plus your holding it too

[@StuninRub]

Once again, this is why don't buy Vortex products, they can't even hold up to the recoil of the rifles they are attached to.

[@garrytalley8009]

You people in your pod casts are not really experts. You are all wind. Especially the guy that said he used so many rounds to zero his rifle.

[@whiteyfisk9769]

Soon as he said that i knew i was listening to a complete idiot

[@Funny-bf8xf]

HAHA

[@Heathh49008]

This makes zero sense. You zero it in the vice, then take it out and practice. Do you think bore sighting is "cheating" the shooter out of the experience of being 1 foot off the paper as well? Probably not, that would be silly. You act like people will ONLY shoot in the sled.

[@VortexNation]

Heathh49008 you’re only referring to one of many examples as to why it’s a bad idea though - maybe a shooter would take the gun out for practice after sight in, but that doesn’t change the fact that shooting a gun in a weighted gun vise is a recipe for excessive stress on the Gun and all its related accessories, including the optic as well. Guns are designed to transmit the forces of the recoil freely and into the shooter. If there is nowhere for that force to go, it will find its way into other areas like action screws (we’ve seen many break on many types of rifles from this) or precise internals of optics or electronics on the Gun.

[@Heathh49008]

@@VortexNation That's not how it works. The recoil impulse isn't "contained" in the rifle any more than a sound wave is contained in a steel rod when you strike it. The impulse travels through the material and is dissipated into the vice as opposed to the shooter. Where the energy would have made the shooter move back and forth a bit, it is turned into a little heat energy at the point of contact and in compressing the rubber in the vice jaws, shifting the mass of the sled, etc. The image you have is of a tuning fork. And you have forgotten the vice is no different to the recoil impulse than a shoulder of similar durometer. In either case the impulse is simply transmitted through the rifle.

[@douglasbattjes3991]

Why does a good video have to have every other word ( you know) does this mean I already know??? i think they forgotten English speaking in school these days, The terms, You know, Basically, and I mean, have really taken over speech. Why would someone say ( Basically going to shoot my gun) when that's what they are going to do? Great info but listen to your video.