VR Download: SteamVR On Apple Vision Pro & The Future of visionOS

VR Download is our weekly hardware, technology, and industry trends show streamed live from virtual reality. Ian Hamilton and David Heaney discuss the future of Apple's visionOS platform as ALVR brings SteamVR to the headset.
0:00 Intro
0:39 Topics
4:47 Meta Quest 2 Is $200
www.uploadvr.com/quest-2-pric...
25:24 Quest 3 Retention
www.uploadvr.com/quest-3-high...
50:18 Meta & China
www.uploadvr.com/meta-tencent...
52:54 Quest Room Understanding
www.uploadvr.com/meta-scenesc...
1:06:42 PSVR 2 Firmware Update For PCs
www.uploadvr.com/psvr2-firmwa...
1:27:11 Vision Pro ‪@WebXR‬ Hand and Eye Tracking
www.uploadvr.com/webxr-apple-...
1:31:51 Vision Pro & SteamVR With Joy-Cons
www.uploadvr.com/alvr-apple-v...
2:12:34 visionOS 2.0 And Spatial Avatars
www.uploadvr.com/visionos-2-r...
2:27:30 Apple Pencil For Vision Pro
www.uploadvr.com/new-apple-pe...
2:37:12 Outro
VR Download is streamed from UploadVR Studios, our internal platform made in Unity (C#).
Prefer to listen? You'll also find VR Download on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and more.
#VRDownload #VR #AR #quest3 #quest2

[@Anticleric]

Just want you guys to know that I watch these even when I miss the live broadcast.

[@HeadsetHistorian]

1:12:10 David's reaction here had me in stitches. I totally get what Ian meant when he explained it further but that initial explanation was so funny.

[@AetherSummers]

This entire section left me baffled

[@jtm7336]

Ian has quite a knack of making the simple complicated and confusing.

[@slothsarecool]

I know some people like this as well haha, could simply be a “yes” but it ends up being a 30 minute rant 😅

[@SargonDragon]

There's a lot that Ian said during this stream that I didn't agree with. I usually agree with David more than Ian. But the byplay between their arguments is actually a meaningful core of these streams. Not only does it bring out a lot of details on each subject during the course of debate, but Ian and David in themselves represent different and in many ways almost diametrically opposed kinds of people who are interested in VR. Between them they represent a wide swath of the people out there. David represents me personally better than Ian does. I do think Ian verges on being an Apple fanboy. But you know what? So are a lot of people! I have to acknowledge that many Apple enthusiasts exist and their perspective matters and has impact on what happens in the VR industry. Apple's entry into the space has an enormous impact on all of VR. I find these streams very informative in large part because they're not myopic in their point of view. You guys are making efforts to present balanced and well researched views of what's really going on in the VR industry. Honestly, I don't think you always get it right. But nobody does or can. I think this channel is among the highest quality sources of good information available.

[@jens2842]

Great podcast. I really appreciate your factual and neutral reporting. It’s evident that the people speaking here are knowledgeable about the subject matter. I was pleasantly surprised by how well you categorized all the Vision Pro aspects. I was afraid I’d have to listen to a Meta fanboy podcast, but it was exactly the opposite. Thank you for that! Subscribed to the channel.

[@shadowandtomnlabgame3276]

2 hard on psvr2. I got it and happy the way it’s building its library. So many games coming out week after week

[@siriusgu4579]

I think adding velocity onto controller via the hand pose delta is straightforward, thus gravity glove is possible.

[@pumpuppthevolume]

well u can use index controllers with vpro too ....obviously it's just for people that already have the index controllers but yeah it is a pcvr headset now .....and at some point other controllers that don't need lighthouses

[@WindFireAllThatKindOfThing]

I get the feeling the AVP will be the preferred target for startups wanting to bring street-level VR gloves to market, since all other platforms have their own controllers

[@mamefan]

I was SHOCKED to learn that personas are flat 2D images the 1st time David brought it up. What's the point then?!? Why had no one else mentioned it?!

[@LukeMartin-qi5uh]

A bit like how the passthrough isn't depth correct. That's a pretty big deal completely ignored by mainstream media. Guess the quality is so high people looked over that.

[@HeadsetHistorian]

Wow, this is news to me. That is absolutely wild!

[@KreAtorGames]

@@LukeMartin-qi5uhit is tho..?

[@KreAtorGames]

it will be soon, 3D Personas were shown off at WWDC 2023.

[@MissingYouser]

The main point is you already have a headset covering your face. They are 3D if you’re talking with another VP user.

[@SargonDragon]

If Sony would be providing a proprietary adapter for the PSVR2 to connect to PC, then why would they need to disable their proprietary protections in firmware? That doesn't seem to make any sense.

[@GirlGeekLovesStampin]

Wouldn’t eye tracking available to developers open us all us to privacy issues? On that point I noticed that when playing 1st party AR apps in Quest 3 I can record the entire game within my room but not in other AR apps which black out my room in recordings. Is that related? Thank you for all that you do! ❤

[@Heaney5551]

It would open privacy issues, but similar to giving a phone app access to your camera and microphone. As for that Quest 3 recording issue, have you manually disabled the safety boundary? If not, that's likely just a bug.

[@GirlGeekLovesStampin]

@@Heaney5551 Yes I have no boundaries. Why would that change what I record only for 3rd party apps? Thank you for answering and for being such an awesome podcaster.

[@Heaney5551]

@@GirlGeekLovesStampin If you disable the Boundary system it will break multiple things, including recording passthrough.

[@GirlGeekLovesStampin]

@@Heaney5551 I guess what I'm asking is why it didn't break 1st party recordings - and only 3rd party ones?

[@jtm7336]

David, what AAA games does quest 3 have backward compatibility to?

[@ImmersedRobot]

Resident Evil 4, GRID Legends.

[@dragonmarble7562]

It's not just about AAA games. Someone upgrading from Quest 2 to 3 may not feel that they're getting much new content, but at least they don't lose their existing library.

[@jtm7336]

@@dragonmarble7562 That is not the argument David was making. PSVR 2 is not for everyone and I can understand why someone would prefer quest but this constant crapping on it is ridiculous.

[@jtm7336]

@@ImmersedRobot RE4 is it and the quest version can not compete with the PSVR 2 version. I have both and it is night and day.

[@ImmersedRobot]

@@jtm7336 Of course not. One is running on a mobile platform. I was simply answering your question, but if you had stated the caveat of "and also the backwards compaitble AAA games have to be of equal graphical fidelity", then I wouldn't have mentioned it. What about GRID Legends?

[@zydawn]

quest 2 s. coming soon.

[@conchobar]

I don't understand the negative tone regarding PSVR2 headeing to PC. If Valve was releasing an Index 2, would the hosts keep that same energy? Unless, they believe PCVR is dead, PSVR2 is the best new headset to launch on PC in years.

[@FastLawyer]

Upload has become an apple fan boy channel, they keep pushing Apple stories, even though it's very speculative that Apple will ever be a real player in VR aka spatial computing

[@lowrider2756]

@@Heaney5551 Sony earns money on selling games and probably also on selling the psvr2 headset. There is no reason why they should not sell it to the pc volks. It is just additional money

[@Uploadvr]

Valve is the company that makes the 30% store cut on PC VR games, Sony only makes that when you buy VR games on PS5. Hence why this is a loss-cutting decision for Sony, and wouldn't be for Valve.

[@Uploadvr]

Also, please see 1:25:02!

[@craiggmelville]

The PSVR2 was dead on arrival as a product if you think about it even Sony recognises this now hence it is getting PCVR support. I think that we may be seeing a port of Gran Turismo 7 coming to PC later this year and if Sony can produce a breakout box for PSVR2 around the $300 mark they will try and double dip.

[@earthwitness-o7]

My theory about Quest 3 retention being higher of course it's higher all of the VR enthusiast replace there Quest 2 with Quest 3 the people that were playing regularly on their Quest 2 are now playing on their new Quest 3s.

[@maxstafford4007]

Avp news made in a quest

[@ivana6141]

I reckon tim cook gave the ok for avp without ever trying the quest 3

[@craiggmelville]

Of course he did as they made the AVP before the Quest 3 shipped 🤦‍♀

[@BlackMarketHoney]

Since it is reported that the PSVR2 will need a special adapter in order for the haptics and eye tracking to work, I think Sony is letting the current stock sell out so they can begin to ship a new package with the PC adapter. They would also need to update the info on the box to promote the PC compatability. But they really need to drop the price, make a sweet bundle or do some freaking advertising!!!

[@lowrider2756]

Why dropping the price? The PSVR2 would be a very cheap PCVR headset having eye-tracking, a display port, a HDR-OLED-Display and by far the best haptics out there. I bought a crystal for 1350 USD, because I wanted a headset with eye-tracking and display port..

[@rahulahl]

@@lowrider2756 Yeah, but its wired and has Fresnel lenses. For most people, especially non sim users, those things matter more. If someone was to give me a PC compatible PSVR2 for free, I`m not sure I would use it over my Quest 3.

[@lowrider2756]

@@rahulahl I think a lot of vr users are playing seated (for comfort or not enough free space for moving around). For them a cable is always the better choice (latency, more stable connection, image quality). I use the Q3 only for fitness, for games (not sims) I use the psvr2 or the pimax crystal.

[@Uploadvr]

To be clear: an adapter will be needed for PSVR 2 to work at all on the vast majority of GPUs, not just for eye tracking and haptics.

[@BlackMarketHoney]

@@lowrider2756 I play 90% standing.

[@ivana6141]

For psvr2 on pc you can use a display port to usb and plug it from graphics card to thunderbolt card to get usb from gpu. Not cheap solution though.

[@Heaney5551]

That doesn't provide 12V power. Won't work.

[@lowrider2756]

I'm using the Quest 3 only for fitness. The rest of the time I play UEVR using the crystal and a gamepad. I think motion controllers are overrated here since there are more types of games than first person shooter.

[@wonder_platypus8337]

1:04:20 I disagree I pay attention when I download things to what the permissions are. I don't think I want those options removed. In fact I'd like more.

[@Heaney5551]

Sure but why can't we agree to these permissions at install-time, as it used to be, rather than a series of nags after already installing the app?

[@wonder_platypus8337]

@@Heaney5551 I guess I don't see it as nagging. I purposely set most of those to "ask each time." So it's doing exactly what I want.

[@dragonmarble7562]

Then you answer yes each time. So what's the point? It makes you feel better without any real benefit. That's David's point.

[@jeanmichelvr8653]

hearing several time "hardcore game" about just "game" is a bit sad in my opinion. Of course controllers are nice and useful for "games" , I'm still playing echo VR with friends and it's amazing, I still didn't experience a better multiplayer vr sport than this one, and yeah without controller it would be not as precise of course, it's why I defend controllers as something importan with some haptics and the feeling to hold something and release something (glory to the hand grips)

[@fxarts9755]

bc "hardcore games"/pc gaming isn't even half the gaming market. personally think controllers are important but I don't think they need to be first-party ones as long as 3rd party ones are available separately. I think for vr to develop further as a thing we need to get rid of controllers as the primary input device. bc every dev will rely on that making alternative input options (like handtracking) an afterthought. bringing down the experience as a whole. like try using a console for anything but gaming. its awful UX. if we want vr to be more than just gaming (in wich case it will never grow) than controllers must go

[@jeanmichelvr8653]

@@fxarts9755 well ok from that goal, understandable. I really don't want VR to be a thing like that, it's like music, to be adopted ,artist had to go mainstream, easy to digest etc etc. Most of us supporting this channels are "hardcore gamers" (not even, just we love that part as the most developed part of vr and we felt that creative vibe of the 90's like duke nukem pc etc). So I repeat , it is a bit "sad" in my opinion. but yeah they talk about the industry, ok....

[@jeanmichelvr8653]

I also remember the "meh" stuff like Kinect or wiii, it was full of gimmick and steps back from the technology, Wiii sold well but mehh

[@fxarts9755]

​@@jeanmichelvr8653 I would compare it more to the iPod times. with the iPod came the mass adoption of mp3 players in everyone's pants. even tho mp3 players existed before, were cheaper, could do more and not required iTunes they didn't take off like the iPod did bc iPod and iTunes were so much more user-friendly. this created a whole other industry where ppl were much more likely to pay for music through iTunes just bc it was easier. yes everyone needed to switch platforms but that also made it possible for smaller artist to be profitable and monetize their music as well as get discovered in the first place. and much more varied genres since these artists didn't need to be signed to labels that would make CDs for them. and then came Spotify making it even easier and accessible. like i think this might be annoying right now but if the vr space now explodes bc of vision and the competition they will bring its a net good. that means more devs will be interested in making VR games in the first place. Like to be very honest there aren't even that many vr games rn. vr been on a downturn for a long time now. ppl thought the vr hype was already over

[@craiggmelville]

David's comments, will age badly when Apple release controllers and gaming on VisionOS 2.0 during WWDC24!

[@HeadsetHistorian]

I would love for that to happen but it just seems extremely unlikely.

[@nickmajora]

It'd be crazy for them to bash controllers at the launch of Vision Pro only to turn around and release some that quickly. The only way that'd happen would be for every person who's purchased AVP to be begging Apple for them which I doubt is the case right now.

[@jtm7336]

Awesome, lets all crap on PSVR 2!

[@Uploadvr]

1:18:46

[@jtm7336]

@@Uploadvr All you mention are asguards and assassin‘s creed. Those were basically released at the same time as the quest 3. To call them backward compatible games is like calling a game released on PS5 and PS4 at the same time backward compatible. The only AAA game on quest 2 was RE4, before asgards/assassin’s, and that version cannot compare with PSVR2. I have both quest 3, PSVR2 and PCVR so I enjoy it all. You guys are just way too hard on PSVR 2 and basically condemned it before the first year was up.

[@Uploadvr]

@@jtm7336 That timestamp is linked to show that we don't want to crap on PSVR 2 and we appreciate it for all its advantages.

[@jtm7336]

@@Uploadvr Yeah, I realized that after I posted the reply. I thought you were responding to another post. I don’t think you guys are positive about PSVR 2 in anyway though.

[@ItsFreeVRealEstate]

​@@jtm7336They're attitude towards PSVR2 is way more positive than it was to the PSVR1 during its lifespan. There was never a positive article, and the forum was a minefield back before they paywalled it.

[@jdogfunk100]

David, when asked if you have anything else to add, have you EVER not said something? Please, let's keep the show moving and know when to stop talking.

[@nickmajora]

Interesting perspective. Out of the two of them I'd say Heaney is the one more often trying to keep the show on track and getting things wrapped up.