Vtuber Kicks the Yugioh Twitter Hornets' Nest and...

[@daveclarke1990]

Master Duel has made yugioh accessible to new players the world over and nothing has been worse for the games reputation

[@nagatouzumaki4047]

exactly as before master duel, it was only diehards who played it and now that normies are learning about it, it's getting attacked cause the game is pretty horrible tbh

[@EzraGenesis1]

It’s the whole, him complaining about someone taking a long time to do a turn, when the quotes revealed he was playing an FTK Exodia deck that has me crying 😂

[@kayanono]

Which still kinda proves his point lmao but ppl just skip over that

[@Karmitify]

@@kayanonohypocrisy in terms of actually playing a solitaire deck tends to bring the smoke

[@LCDigital92]

@@Karmitify I’m a Yugiboomer and have no interest in playing Master Duel, so I don’t know the answer to this. Did he know it’s an FTK solitaire deck? If a returning player sees Dark Magician, Blue Eyes, or Exodia, they might pick a nostalgia deck like those without knowing how they play. Or maybe they heard that Exodia is a “strong” deck and picked that not knowing the details. Not saying that’s what happened, but just in general I don’t see a problem necessarily with him having that deck potentially without knowing anything about it (besides “Exodia”) and complaining about those types of decks.

[@broww.]

based on him having cursed bamboo sword and royal magical library (the face down monster with 2000 def, it would be quite reasonable to assume that he knew. The only weird part is the pot of extravagence.@@LCDigital92

[@patchworkgolem]

@@LCDigital92 For Blue Eyes and DM that might be reasonable but there is nothing but solitare exodia decks in the history of the game. It's whole gimic is to stall till you draw all five pieces and instantly win the game. This is much truer for yugiboomers too as it was even more toxic back then.

[@TheTikeySauce]

I remember the olden days when certain players had decks built to abuse tournament end of match procedures to win matches (Gustkraken infinite, Pole Position, Self-Destruct Button, etc.). Good times. In regards to the new player experience, despite of people's perception of meta, meta decks tend to have the lowest bar of entry for new players (in MD) since the strength of the deck can somewhat compensate for the lack of the player's game knowledge, especially when the meta is comprised of mid-range decks. The farther you stray away from meta, it deceptively increases the barrier for entry as you now need to be able to compensate for the weaknesses of the deck you are trying to pilot.

[@andrewnguyen4801]

Effectively Sets 1, passes. "I have nothing now and lost everything, 1900 health". That really got me. LOL

[@agunemon]

His clip shows how most new players that just finished the tutorial and refreshers would begin the game.

[@TheTrashManUneed]

If your game fails to attract new players your game will die.

[@PyckledNyk]

Celtic/Gaelic and languages descended from it also has complex and different pronunciation than you would expect from an English-speaker’s POV. I’m learning Irish and half the words have almost unique pronunciations depending on who says it

[@spicymemes7458]

I liked yugioh pre-Duelist Alliance. After that, it seemed as though there was a concerted effort to make an entirely different game, which isnt for me. I still play, but I am not bringing in new players anymore. Its just a niche thing I do with friends, but I am not going to champion a version of the game that I think is worse than the sum of its parts. The community is so far gone at this point that any criticism of suggestion is taken with such offense that it's difficult to even theorize what it could become in the future. People who like how it is now REALLY like how it is now and will die on that hill if it comes down to it.

[@SagittariusAyy]

“Modern YGO bad, please laugh”

[@nagatouzumaki4047]

well the game going to die if nobody other then diehards play it 30 r old stinky virgins aren't going to support the game forever

[@nightmarepenguin2370]

I play yugioh, but I don't like the game. That said, fanboying and deflecting criticism with insults or total willful ignorance on the behalf of fans or Konami achieves nothing and just makes the game seem more unpleasant... Too bad the same goes for Papa Mutt. I really don't want to be lumped in with the "They want to hearthstone our yugioh, my god, think of the yugioh!" crowd, but I'm down to risk it if it means clowning on the kinda guy who lets themselves get publicly tilted and makes broad sweeping statements to insult people who engage with a hobby. Rarran got an excuse because Farfa's chat had basically spent an hour insulting him to his face when he was already tired, that and he actually had valuable takes on the game and was open minded about liking it, even though he didn't have to be.

[@nagatouzumaki4047]

he was more fair to the game then a average person would be

[@nagatouzumaki4047]

well as long as you agree with everything they say and are not going to say anything negative about their trash game then your fine otherwise no your not

[@YDYUGI]

me I'm just enjoying this not playing Master Duel. I'm just casually watching not playing.

[@Edanite]

Yugioh at this point, as well as any point in the last decade or two, has a very wide gap between 'table 500' decks and the upper tiers. There is also a huge gap between not knowing how to play, and knowing how to play your deck regardless of how good or bad the deck is. At this point I only recommend people learn to play under one of two conditions. Be ready to get your ass clapped very hard and all the time at the start. Have someone to couch you. At least teach you what cards are staples for a deck. I did the first. Took a long time to figure out everything else.

[@cancerstinks1]

Two ways new players to anything super competitive respond to getting destroyed their first time. 1. That sucked I’m never playing this again. 2. That was awesome. I want to be able to do something like that.

[@Edanite]

@@cancerstinks1 That was exactly what happened to me, lol. My friend and I thought we were gonna do well because we played against each other a lot. Went to our first locals. Lost. Hard. We were shell-shocked for a few hours then when sitting at the café afterwards we kind of snapped, decided that was frigging awesome and tried to work out potential plays with our new understanding of the game.

[@sammydray5919]

​@@cancerstinks1 Basically the fighting game problem

[@PyckledNyk]

I wonder if those ravenous YuGiOh fanboys are proud of having a small community of insulated weirdos. Most YuGiOh fans are completely ignorant to how people perceive their game. Most people think that the game is dead, which is why Master Duel was such a surprise for so many people. However, Master Duel has done more to drive away casuals by showing them directly to their face that “their” YuGiOh is actually dead, and now we have this wombo combo turbo bullshit like SE when most casuals just want to play with DM rules. It doesn’t help too that I’m starting to feel like I need to play YuGiOh out of a financial obligation now; I have these fire cards that can beat a lot of decks, but it cost several hundred to make, and I’m already getting tired of playing it. I’ve yet to play Magic in person nor Lorcana, but I wonder how much more interactive a match of those games are, and how much less stressful and frustrating it is.

[@Yubl10]

Having hand traps is great, but if you don't know when to use them to stop your opponents combo, then they aren't going to do you any good. I learned recently that hand traps and stuff like called by the grave are great but you have to know your opponent's deck and it's combos so you know when to play those cards and that requires a lot of time and research that not everyone has or wants to bother looking up. It's like back when people played Solomon judgment. You had to know when to use it, or it would be a waste of a counter. It's a lot to try and memorize and a lot of potential research someone would have to do.

[@XxJoyBoy14xX]

Wasted ash blossom and maxx c soooo many times😭

[@nagatouzumaki4047]

that's if you draw the hand trap alot of decks can play around hand traps too besides needing to use a card to even play kinda is proof of bad game design

[@randommaster06]

It's funny and disheartening how the community's response to someone not having fun is "play better lmao." It's like telling someone "make more money" or "just socialize more." We say new players should have someone each them the modern game, but then we attack enyone who asks a question.Konami may have abandoned nw players, but we're the ones throwing rocks.

[@batriam5921]

yugioh definitely has a problem with teaching new players and the master duel tutorial doesn't really cover the important stuff like hand traps and such. However on the other end this was a super dishonest tweet. He was playing exodia and complaining that his opponent was playing solitaire. And he knew this which is why when he tweeted the video he cut out his own hand. His opponent activated a total of about 12 cards in at most 3 minutes and he was complaining about the "no joke 37 minutes turn". The exodia deck was obviously netdecked yet he chose to take a bad deck, not even attempt to play it and then complain that the deck was bad and didn't have any interaction.

[@randommaster06]

@@batriam5921 Someone has lied on the internet, whatever shall we do? The tweet was just PapaMutt trolling for views. IT's about as substantial as the shopped Tear mirror where the entire table is covered in cards. The tweet actually showed what a first turn can look like, which is more than Konami has ever done. Then the replies showed what the community is like.

[@sammydray5919]

​@@randommaster06He was trolling for views and so he got clowned by the community. How does that make the community bad when he went out of his way to be dishonest I mean trolly about it. What kind of backwards logic is that?

[@nagatouzumaki4047]

Yu-Gi-Oh as said in the video is competitive only it's for a same select few people who are already into the game not new players

[@dave_the_slick8584]

You severely underestimate how much the timer pauses add to the length.

[@divinehero7331]

the timer doesnt even pause when there is a confirmation window so i dont know what are you talking about...

[@dave_the_slick8584]

@@divinehero7331 it absolutely pauses when your opponent can respond. When they're done it resumes.

[@michaelkeha]

So just for a laugh in vanguard the most off the wall high end turn one combo someone can do is if they play spike brothers open the straight god hand and the top of the deck has to be correct as well and the opponent needs to brick and their top 6 cards of their deck are bricks keep in mind if any of these don't line up the spike brother player is probably fucking dead at that point and this whole situation will be maybe 3 minutes end to end if the spike brothers player is smooth with his play

[@DragonBallsolosyourverse]

Funny you didt show the full turns he did Cause it proves his point

[@SkyFireYZ]

Hate on yugioh = millions of views Classic

[@renaldyhaen]

That's mean there are million viewer with the same opinion.

[@nagatouzumaki4047]

the game does suck it's the worse video game

[@shitaishiro]

yugioh is absolutely not new player friendly and i wish the game could attract new players through inherent gameplay experiences. but i also don’t think it’s fair to expect us as current players to have the patience with malicious actors especially when some of them only try the game to prove their hate boner for it. i don’t support people who dogpile other people for having a non-positive opinion on the game, but i also will not entertain people who blatantly misrepresent the game to get twitter likes. i commend people who go out of their way to teach new players but i should not be required to do damage control when a misinformed person pokes a sleeping bear.

[@KnightLuciferZero]

This confirms that I should never engage with the community and give my opinion on the game.

[@batriam5921]

while some people definitely went overboard this also doesn't happen if you engage with the community honestly. If you make stuff up and lie about any game it's fandom will call you out on it.

[@DragonBallsolosyourverse]

^^ Translation only agree with my group or else

[@theluminary7340]

While yes the actual base of the argument hes trying to make is solid and most people can agree with, yugioh is mostly unapproachable to new players, It just blows my mind how someone can bitch about getting ftk combo'd for 3.5 minutes while playing deep draw exodia, a deck that has 0 player interaction and is LITERALLY JUST SOLITAIRE 😂Dude even crops out his hand so you cant see that hes playing it so he doesnt look like a hypocrite. This guy is a clown and I dont really feel bad for the backlash he got. About the teachable moment thing, I dont ever think there was any teaching to be done here. Lets be honest. He came into the game and intentionally misrepresented the game he played to make it look worse than it is. I dont think the backlash would have been anywhere near as bad if his tweet read "Just played yugioh for the first time in a while and jesus its not new player friendly" Instead he came in, played solitaire while bitching about other people playing solitaire then lied about how long the game took and cropped out his solitaire deck. Not to mention all these people making these yugi hate videos come into the game with a point to prove. "I played yugioh to prove it was ridiculous" This guy sitting here trying to prove the same thing. They dont want to learn how to play the game, they want to prove its a bad game.

[@LCDigital92]

I’m a Yugiboomer and have no interest in playing Master Duel, so I don’t know the answer to this. Did he know it’s an FTK solitaire deck? If a returning player sees Dark Magician, Blue Eyes, or Exodia, they might pick a nostalgia deck like those without knowing how they play. Or maybe they heard that Exodia is a “strong” deck and picked that not knowing the details. Not saying that’s what happened, but just in general I don’t see a problem necessarily with him having that deck potentially without knowing anything about it (besides “Exodia”) and complaining about those types of decks.

[@theluminary7340]

@@LCDigital92 He purposefully edited the video to crop out his hand so you couldn't see he was playing exodia. That pretty much gives away he knew what he was doing, at least in my mind. Why would he feel the need to edit his hand out of the video if he wasnt trying to hide what he was playing.

[@LCDigital92]

@@theluminary7340 Someone else here brought this up, but I agree it does look bad if he’s playing Exodia. My point was whether he knew about the deck “when he got it.” Perhaps later he realized the first deck he got was the kind of deck he hates. After experiencing FTK solitaire decks, he might want to criticize those kinds of deck, but people seeing he’s doing Exodia would immediately disregard his point and call him a hypocrite, so he removed his deck since it’s not relevant to the point and would distract from his message. Not saying that’s what happened, but as someone who quit the TCG in 2006 and would probably pick like a Blue Eyes deck if that’s a first-deck option, I could see myself in that situation if Blue Eyes were an FTK solitaire deck and I’m hating that I’m going against FTK solitaire decks because I didn’t know the modern game and cards work like that. Seems like people are quick to assume he knew what he was doing when playing Exodia and how it’s basically the very thing he’s criticizing. Yes he intentionally edited it out, but the other stuff, I don’t know if we can say one way or another.

[@theluminary7340]

@@LCDigital92 Exodia isn't a starter deck he just randomly picked up for nostalgia. He had to go online, find a deck list, then manually craft 35 different draw cards for his exodia deck. He knew he was playing a deck designed to draw the 5 pieces turn 1. Anyone with half a functioning brain would make that assumption. Exodia is like 8 monsters and 32 draw spells. Blue eyes and dark magician also aren't solitaire decks. They are control decks relying on traps to summon your monsters and stop your enemy from comboing. But even if he didn't realize till later that is was a solitaire deck you can't complain about other people using a style of deck that you yourself are actively playing in that same game your complaining about. That is hypocritical.

[@waiyon1951]

@@theluminary7340 i felt most the gripes some people had was this and the over exaggeration and i guess the statement just straight up sounding offensive, like most people do know ygo has problems and people who claims it doesn't are just a vocal minority. We have plenty of players that can see this games needs a Miraculous fix to make it new player friendly, for new player going into the game from a blank slate. Of course there are some players new or returning who are willing to do the research first for how modern yugioh works ( i hadn't played since MD release but i kept up with it so i was more informed than some did) so it's not impossible to learn just not by going in blind, which is just one of the issue of point of entry for YGO.

[@boyishdude1234]

My apologies for how long this ended up being, but I felt it needed to be said regardless and I just can't shorten it. It isn't normal for a competitive game to intentionally have no interaction between players. Even in other badly designed, toxic competitive games like Battlefield 2042 I'm still making decisions based on what my opponents and allies are doing and interacting with them in gunfights, movement, teamplay, etc, which almost always leads to meaningful consequences for both myself and my opponents as well as my allies based on the decisions I myself, my allies and my enemies make despite how narrow the skill gap is and how low the skill ceiling is due to its toxic foundations and terrible balancing as a game (it has the worst fundamentals of any FPS I've played besides CoD). When I play Battlefield 2042, I'm playing a competitive game in which I compete with other players directly. It's an objectively bad competitive game in which I compete with other players directly that makes me really mad most of the time, but at least it's competitive by design because how players on both teams interact with each other over the course of a match is what decides the outcome. You don't have situations where a single player, no matter how skilled, is single-handedly responsible for the outcome of the match, much less every minor outcome that led to one team's victory and the other's defeat because all macro-outcomes in the game are ultimately a group effort. In Yugioh on the other hand whether I'm the one doing the wombo combo to set up an unbreakable board or my opponent is the one doing that, there's no inherently interaction whatsoever between players, even if you've drawn into your handtraps on Turn 1, because with the way all of the mechanics work in even decks that are only partially competitive it's impossible for players to have a dialogue with each other in the way they use their decks. This is because the mechanics of each deck are parasitic (meaning that each deck is designed to only interact with itself, which includes the deck's interruption) and also because conceptually interruption in Yugioh is a negative feedback loop in which meaningful counterplay in response to interruption is impossible unless you don't have any interruption to use to counter it, which means that there's no strategy or interaction; you either drew/created enough interruption or you didn't. By definition that is not only _not_ competitive, it's explicitly *anti-competitive.* Think about how much of a problem that is: Yugioh is supposed to be a competitive game, but by design players aren't competing with each other at all and are instead either actively making it impossible for their opponents to play the game or are playing through longer games (that are exceptionally rare in modern Yugioh) in which no interaction happens between any of the players involved anyway because their decks aren't designed to interact with each other in the first place. Interruption can't even be considered interaction because if you get interrupted by your opponent successfully a certain amount of times in a row (the threshold for that varies based on the deck you're using and the resources you have available) then you don't have any meaningful strategic options left that you can use to work around that, you've simply been forced to stop playing the game and cannot recover from that even slightly. This is a design paradox; it shouldn't be possible for a Player vs Player game to be designed in such a way as to make competition between players nigh impossible to have. It isn't simply that Yugioh has a terrible new player experience, it's that Yugioh is a conceptually bad game with terrible fundamentals. Modern Yugioh isn't liked by those who enjoy it a lot because it's a really competitive, hardcore game. It's enjoyed so much by those people because it isn't a competitive game at all. If it was a competitive game it would have competitive mechanics where players are constantly interacting with each other in a back and forth where they dynamically adjust their strategies based on what their opponents decided to do. Instead it has FTKs, OTKs and Interruption, all of which existing specifically to bypass the interaction that makes other competitive games, card games or otherwise, such enjoyable and rewarding experiences. Yugioh may have the most complex learning curve of any card game, but it's without question the most casual TCG ever made, and that's to its detriment. Not its benefit. People say that Yugioh was better in the old days from before we got our first glimpses of what we would later come to know as "modern Yugioh", and while that is a true statement, the truth is that Yugioh was always an objectively bad card game. It just took people over a decade and a half of power creep to realize that it in reality it just plain sucks as a competitive game because Interruption and theoretically infinite Special Summons are conceptually bad mechanics.

[@nagatouzumaki4047]

Yu-Gi-Oh was good back in gx and dm era now it just sucks being ultimately just decided on coin flip if x or y person wins

[@miky9504]

I mean yeah, the game wasn't designed to be competent, it was meant as just another game Takahashi made on a whim to honor MtG. It was made "competitive" by Konami, which pretty much made all of the rules back when they were developing the Gameboy games

[@boyishdude1234]

@@miky9504 That doesn't mean that they shouldn't have put their best foot forward to make a competitive game that's actually good. Any PvP game is foundationally competitive, it's just a matter of whether or not the game is well-designed and has good balancing.

[@miky9504]

@@boyishdude1234 That's the point. It wasn't meant to be PvP, rather just a cool setpiece for the manga or against a CPU. Konami has never been able to balance the game, just look at the Exodia OTK that was running rampant because all of the pieces weren't limited

[@boyishdude1234]

@@miky9504 You're missing the point that I'm making, though. Whether or not it was "meant" to be an actual game is irrelevant. The bottom-line is that it was Konami's responsibility to make sure it was good. Bringing up how it wasn't meant to be an official game is pointless because that fact doesn't change anything.

[@FallenStarPunk]

Mqybe he should play Lorcana then.

[@nagatouzumaki4047]

Yu-Gi-Oh has been garbage ever since synchro/5ds era bunch of smelly old men who just wanna play a game themselves with nobody else being involved good for them ig hope they get the game they always wanted and the game gets cancelled as result of no new players

[@creamcheeseboi]

Calling a returning player “toxic” for (poorly) playing Exodia is so intellectually disingenuous. He set one and passed and you got veteran ygo players saying he’s playing a toxic ftk deck so deserves to be bullied. Lets be serious… its a dm era gimmicky anime deck that loses to everything. But mob mentality is a bitch

[@creamcheeseboi]

Also please watching ygo combos is actually hilarious to anyone who doesnt know whats going on. I remember years ago watching a friend play and it used to make my brain hurt seeing all the stuff going on.

[@ippoverse]

The community is unapproachable. We’re witnessing mental illness, just smile and wave.

[@DragonBallsolosyourverse]

Dude it was so toxic that he only managed to set one pass. Guys just hate him cause he disliked the game, they spent so much money on.

[@dingdong_69]

- plays random bullshit thats not very synergetic in a deck whose win con is trying to win turn one - making the worst possible plays - opponents are not even good at the game either - still loses The game is for sure a flawed shit show but there is def skill issue

[@creamcheeseboi]

Wait his stream clips were funny though 😭 my man was just trying to entertain his audience and got dog piled

[@waiyon1951]

entertainment is fine to do but it felt more like straight up satire or maybe not even satire. It was skewed to make a point, not saying some point were invalid but it felt like it was meant to be a jab at the game and it's never really a smart thing to do. Some people can pretty much figure out it wasn't done out of a genuine attempt, like for example I watched Rarran's video I can appreciate his struggles and frustrations which lead to spite from that which i can appreciate, i kinda felt this time was pure spite.

[@MMTrapsYT]

Master duel is not the place to learn yugioh and Konami was very clear on this. Master duel is for brain dead zombies fans. Zero relevance to the yugioh community because there is no real world championships. It’s brain dead zombie vs another. TCG and OCG is where real yugioh is and what Konami actually rewards.

[@cancerstinks1]

“Zero relevance.” I don’t know about that. Konami loves it and it’s a gold mine for content creators. Also i guess Rednu is a “brain dead zombie.”

[@MMTrapsYT]

@@cancerstinks1 what relevance does it have? Just because Konami loves the money doesn’t mean they are recognizing it as format. They tournaments that happen in master duel are a joke.

[@cancerstinks1]

@@MMTrapsYT They literally had a Master Duel format branch for the WCS alongside TCG and OCG formats. Pro players that have won YCSs and the like competed in the MD format (are THEY brain dead zombies too? 4 time YCS winner Jesse Kotton for instance?) You don’t have to like it, but it is an officially recognized format

[@MMTrapsYT]

@@cancerstinks1 are you trying to make a joke or are you serious?

[@cancerstinks1]

@@MMTrapsYTthey literally flew the top 8 of the MD WCS out to to Tokyo for the rest of the matches. I’m pretty sure it’s a recognized format. And yes, pro players like 4 time YCS winner Jesse Kotton and 3 time YCS winner Joshua Schmidt competed. You know, people in the community that make things “relevant.” But I guess they’re “brain dead zombies” for playing MD.