VW EV Battery life tests show surprising 93% capacity after 62,000 Miles

[@EgwPaliegw]

Thank God ! Good news.

[@antoniopalmero4063]

My 2018 , 40 kWh Nissan Leaf has just turned 100,000 miles today after passing its MOT test yesterday . According to LeafSpy the battery capacity is at 88.6% . Also no work required for the MOT .

[@misaelramos83]

Charging habits?

[@martinglenkenny]

Decent result but smaller batteries will always have fast battery degradation. Still not bad for 100k miles!

[@mkashay]

I also agree with you, that most all BMS system are now good enough to last a very long time.

[@larsradtke4097]

Some misinformation. There are 7000 ID3 sold at the discounted price in expectation of the models refresh. So basically inventory clearance.

[@howardlee7364]

My ID4 38k mile 95% battery capacity with 30% DC charges

[@martinglenkenny]

Battery degradation checked on my 2:year old ID.4 at 100000kms and 6.5% degradation revealed. Nearly all 7.5kw battery charging kept with 20%-80% zones. Happy customer.

[@onederment]

Thats why I bought one as their battery looked like it could beat armagedon.

[@evmikeaz]

Hey Sam, I'm at 48,670 on my '22 Ioniq 5,. So I should be at 62,000 within the next 6 months, bc I'm going to take it to Baja California during Christmas for like 7-10 days. I will shoot some video of what is says my car is charged at, when I'm at 62,000 mi to see how high it charges. So how's it going with selling your house, any buyers yet?

[@matmc3221]

I chose an MEB platform car for my first EV (Cupra Born) and I'll probably do it again when I upgrade in a couple of years unless BYD drop some hot SUV crossover. Oh and my five reasons for not buying a Tesla here in Australia 1 No Australian tune for the suspension. No love for the righthand drive market at all. Just compare BYD's attitude, they have been much more pro active. 2 No adjustment of the one pedal drive mode. 3 You will never own the self drive software and most likely have to pay a subscription to keep it updated. 4 Cars driving style can be completely modified with OTA update regardless of your preference. 5 The Ford Model T mentality. "You can have any colour you like as long as it's black". As good as the car is you don't get a lot of choice of how it looks, and you think you see a lot of them on the road now, just wait after a couple of more years of them selling at their current rate. Your never going to be able to find yours in the car park. I guess that's why they are working so hard on the summon option. Oh and look none of the points have to do with Elon's personality.

[@MrGMawson2438]

Morning mate

[@MrGMawson2438]

Cheers mate

[@mahargrekab]

Good to know! I charge my Cupra Born from home only to 80% so should be good 😃

[@richard--s]

You mean the 35.000$ without taxes for the ID3, because it costs 50.000 Euros with taxes (about 50.000 USD) with parking sensors front and rear and heated front seats as I last checked it. It starts at 40.000 without that. Yes, it's extremely expensive for an electric VW Golf basically. And so it does not cost 35.000 USD everywhere outside of china, where they sell it for 16.000 as you said it.

[@renebergqvist599]

My wifes id.3 has 133000 km on the odo. If it is has degradation (which it of course has) it is not notable. It is only charged to 80% on regular basis and only a couple of tines on DC (yes only a couole of times because I drive a model 3 we use for longer trips). So yes, VW batteries are fine.... Newer Li-ion batteries should last 1500 cycles or more to 80-90% if treated coreectly. In most cars that is ~500.000 km or more.

[@stevensauvageau8827]

I'm more interested in the degradation over time than the degradation over a certain amount of miles. How are these things for people who don't drive much? How will they hold their value when they are 15 or 20 years old? This is nice to know though, because I really like the ID 7 wagon. TY for your work Sam.

[@Tom-dt4ic]

They'd probably do even better if you drove the car and cycled the batteries less.

[@honestjohn6222]

15-20 years, I reckon you have had your moneys worth

[@OverlandExpedition]

Hold their value is an easy one to answer. EV’s have eye watering depreciation even after one year they can lose over 60%. After 3 years a very large UK dealer cannot sell them so offer almost nothing for them in trade in. So expect about 80% loss over 3 years plus.

[@peternystrom921]

@@OverlandExpeditionNo.

[@OverlandExpedition]

@@peternystrom921 ohh yes, just seen that Honda has now shut down EV production. At this rate these abominations will be gone by the end of the year. I reevaluate my opinion, in 2 years you will need to pay someone to take an EV away for disposal.

[@richardfodaski5827]

I hope that the VW group offers the recently announced game changing 4C Shenxing Plus battery.👍

[@aliruz4800]

Can you please give information about batteries used by Nio?🙏🙏🙏 what brand, what kind batteries used and how long they can last please🙏🙏🙏

[@paulharling7657]

That stat doesn't do it for me. In order to do a proper cost comparison, we need to know the average degradation rate over 12 years. That's a reasonable length of time to expect a car to last. More importantly, we need to know what percentage of these cars have had to have a battery replacement along the way. Sure, you can find cases were the battery lasted 400 miles, but there's a LOT of cases where batteries fail during the warranty and many more after the warranty expires. A friend has a 12 year old Tesla on the original battery which is good. It has 70% capacity left so it is on it's last legs. However, he is semi retired and doesn't drive a lot and also owns an ICE for long trips and bad weather. His car is slow charged at home and not very often.

[@fredflinstone8628]

I agree with the intent, but until we have large numbers of people reporting degradation data over many years we won't have the info you want. It is as simple as there aren't enough of them on the road for anywhere near that timeframe. What we are getting is scattered reporting of heavy use vehicles over much shorter times. However, we know that battery management is also getting better so in theory if you follow the manufacturers recommended guidelines on recharging you should get close to the same result that current heavy use reports state. You should also adjust for extreme cold. Which takes us back to mileage as the main factor since that drives recharging cycles which drives degradation. It is then up to the owner to follow the recommended recharging cycle. In the US battery warranty is mandated to be at least 8yrs and 100,000 miles so there would be very few failures not covered by warranty at this point.

[@sender5804]

this means that we need a longer range, give me 400 miles at least so after few years I still have 350

[@mattchristie1810]

Interesting you describe it as "amazing". It may be, in terms of how battery technology is progressing. However, as a car owner I'm more interested in the life of my car, and the driving experience I have. In my case, it would take me 3 years to get to 62k miles. My current ICE car sat outside is 8 years old, and still does 100% of the range it did when new. Given the already "challenged" range status of all EVs (there still isn't one out there that makes me feel comfortable), a further 7% drop after 3 years is shocking to me as a driver, nowhere near amazing in my view. This is yet another hurdle that EVs need to cross, not something to be amazed about.

[@MysteriousTony]

How about this one? If the battery degradation after whatever amount of miles is 10%, does that mean that you then have to stop charging the battery at 70%? Or can you still charge to 80% 🤔

[@jbmop]

80% of the usable capacity which gets reduced over time due to degradation.

[@manuelg8050]

ADAC is not a company. It is the "general german automobile club". Its the largest "club" in germany with a lot of services and power, maybe a bit comparable to the NRA in the USA (but for cars, not guns, of course)

[@honestjohn6222]

ID 3 does look good , from the pictures , went to the new BYD showroom in Sydney the other day ,to look at the seal and dolphin , Seal quite a big car , only thing I do not like is the sun roof hasn’t a blockout screen , as the dolphin looks good , going hopefully for a test drive soon in the dolphin , do you think the BYD cars are as well made as say the VW ,or Tesla , I think the overall ownership cost will be cheaper to maintain in the BYD also the blade batteries seem to be the best at the moment for longevity , ps , hope the wife is doing well Mate , take care

[@larsradtke4097]

The VW's are definitely the better cars. Cruise control, lane keep, seat comfort, controls on the Entertainment system. Also the ID3 is completely built for EV so the size inside much bigger than compared to the competitiors.

[@lawrenceasero2207]

Though not scientific my 2019 Nissan Leaf with 40 kWh battery and 65,000 miles on it has very little degradation and it is an air cooled battery. Original published range when new 149 miles current range on a warm day driving mostly highway speeds 130-140 miles of range. When below freezing 100-125 miles of range. So I would say I still have 85-92% of original range depending on driving conditions.

[@user-oz4mx1di7t]

Im sorry but I am poor so I will buy it when its 150.000 miles and 20 years old will the battery last for another 5 to 10 years for me

[@christianwaldner106]

The 16000 dollar was only a promotion in China for a limited number of vehicles

[@larsradtke4097]

7000 pcs to be precise, ahead of the model refresh.

[@Anomize23]

That’s hardly the breaking point for an ICE Toyota hybrid that literally still sell being used as a 500,000 mile taxi. Worked on a fleet of them in New York. If this is supposed to be impressive, you guys gotta up your standards

[@American_Energy]

We’ll know for sure in 20 years. I think the LFP Teslas will easily go 1M miles.

[@bradleyanderson4315]

Maybe that’s why they switched to SKI instead of LG in the US.

[@stopscammingman]

I'm also wondering if the tech for repairing batteries will get better and better.

[@contra_plano]

With a 58kW batteries two youtubers with a 3 years car got 10% of degradation

[@pfigueiredoytb]

Interesting

[@GolLeeMe]

Isn’t it weird how all of these conditions and rules on batteries seem to just roll of the tongue as though this would not worry any neophyte to EVs. How do everyday people cope with the does and the don’ts to get the best experience from ownership? Take a cab.

[@garydavis1528]

Vw and Audi have always ripped customers off, less so the other sub brands who normally far more competitive but not by reducing the vehicle quality that is often better than Vw itself.

[@mkashay]

They have to make coin. I imagine the low price in China is to keep their hat in the ring, but they cannot afford to do that worldwide.

[@peterchang7646]

This guy needs a patreon so he can get buttons for his shirt. Jeez, every video his shirt is missing buttons.

[@robertmarsh3588]

My takeaway: those of us that can't afford a new EV, or don't have home charging are condemned to have a car with a very short range which isn't suitable for regular long journeys. An old ICE car retains pretty much the same range as when the car was new. Yes, there may be issues with the engine, but these are on a small percentage of cars and in any case can be fixed. Re VW, I wouldn't buy one of their ICE cars anymore, especially after the diesel gate "fixes". I had experience of this on an A3 2.0 TDI. The company and its dealers behaved appallingly, so badly that I wouldn't want to trust them or indeed reward their behaviour by ever buying one of their products again.

[@AllDogsAreGoodDogs]

Ditto BMW for me.

[@RosenIvanovPetkov]

A 10% or more degradation over 100,000 kilometers is bad. Compared to gasoline vehicles, this means the second or third owner will probably need to replace the battery, making these cars a poor choice for the used car market.

[@manuelg8050]

93% is 7% not 10 and they tested the worst cenario. No one should only use fast chargers and to 100%.

[@terrya448]

What about Porsche?

[@AndrewTSq]

only problem is that a battery at 80% doesnt mean it will hold charge for 80% of the new battery. It could drop off quickly after charging.

[@vasil7410]

That's not true. A modern EV's BMS will rate the range still available on a full charge. So a range of 80% means it will do just that - 80% of the new car range.

[@AndrewTSq]

@@vasil7410 so it will just recalibrate its 100% mark? thats scam in my view.

[@vasil7410]

@@AndrewTSq How is it a scam? The state of charge is always going to be a percentage, from 0 - 100%. The range is also shown by the car, and it is adjusted throughout the life of the car to reflect the condition of the battery. If you had any experience with EVs you'd understand how it works.

[@stopscammingman]

Now that's impressive. Its fascinating how outdated some perceptions are.

[@tuppawareAU]

Price difference between China and other markets is that VW is making a loss to maintain market share in very competitive Chinese market, where it's flooded with competition.

[@larsradtke4097]

No it is a 7000pcs promotion sale with lucky draw ahead of the model refresh.

[@craigcullen4171]

The 4680 battery of Tesla’s is the worst on the market . Doesn’t hold charge well and least dense so limited range, far worse when you turn on accessories like Airconditioning or load up the car with luggage. Only in America out of freemont so model Y predominantly model 3 and the doomed cbt. Should have gone 2670 instead good news though the mega battery plant VW is building in the USA has its entire factory floor area built on the ground . Now the big shed goes into place , the quickening !! 2024 on line

[@tomdrewenskus8167]

Tesla batteries have ~8% degradation per 200k miles. So, ~7% degradation per 62k miles for VW Group is terrible. As is the software as well. I'm German but would never buy another German car, even if they gave it to me for free. Tesla runs rings around legacy auto.

[@wescoleman6390]

The VW figures stated in the video are from testing under worst case conditions: fast charging up to 100% for 100,000 kilometers. Is the Tesla figure from a similar test regimen, or is that from typical use (mostly slow charging to 80% with the occasional fast charge)?

[@tomdrewenskus8167]

⁠ That ADAC testing was not even worst case for batteries, as they did not follow some of VW’s charging recommendations. Driving hard also has a significant impact on batteries. For the Tesla figure it is the latter. Volkswagen guarantees that their batteries will still have at least 70% of their usable capacity after eight years or 160,000 kilometres if you use them correctly as recommended. That is up to 30% degradation in 100k miles if you follow all of VW’s guidelines.

[@pipersall6761]

Well then, they should list mileage estimates with a range 80% - 100%. It isnt right to give the 100% mileage estimate as the actual range of a vehicle if you are only charging to 80%. You only have 80% range available so THAT is your range.

[@krause79]

Not really, no one goes around with the fuel tank full everyday day of the week. Most EV owners that charge at home rarely see the battery below 50%. And charge to 100% before going on a long road trip.

[@pipersall6761]

@@krause79 The difference is that EVs mileage is per charge, 100% charge. ICE vehicles are rated per Gallon and/or tank FULL. But if you never charge past 80% then that is what you have. Most people fill their gas tanks.

[@javelinXH992]

@@pipersall6761That would be the miles per kWH figure you want. For example, mine gets around 4, so I know how much I can get on what level of battery.

[@mauricedegroff5669]

Well, I’ve also heard that the Chinese are going broke building electric cars who’s right who’s wrong?

[@mike9588]

93% at 62k miles is I guess an ‘over performance’ but I would think on average with like 95% level 2 charging we will see a good amount of people with less than 10% degradation around the 60-80k mile mark as long as they’re actually charging to like 80% for non LFP etc and then w LFP degradation will probably be slightly less even with charging to 100%

[@vasil7410]

The obsession with battery degradation is somewhat misguided. What is important is that the battery remains useable for the life of the car. Even at 70%, the battery will satisfy the same transport demands as a brand new battery. All that's required so to charge the battery just a bit more often. It doesn't cost any more in electricity to do this. I think whilst we are in this technology transition period, where we don't have concrete examples of modern EVs that are 20 years old, there will always be some confusion, uncertainty and fear in those who are afraid of change and new technology. In terms of resale value, all cars devalue according to age and distance travelled, but the EV fear mongers forget this fact. Nobody knows for sure yet, but if modern EVs prove to be durable and with useable battery life for many years, then we will find EVs hold their value more than ICE cars. And we need to ignore the example set by cars such as early model Nissan LEAFs, they were bad from new.

[@lesnypatrol7292]

WW overslept progress in battery manufacturing , they need to quickly invest in LFP and LMFP production .

[@AllDogsAreGoodDogs]

When you retire, buy and ride an ebike!

[@liamredmill9134]

These are the greatest European cars in terms of looks and teck,but they still have not made a legendary camper van.personelly for space I would design a "tall"electric humbee camper,with fold out solar canopy.also more electric Ute design's are needed.besides tesla and vw and some chinese models ,the worlds design's are very uniconic rubish

[@tysonn4736]

It just goes to show you that even the worst EV is better than the best ICE car when it comes to the core parts of the vehicle (electric motors and batteries).

[@Anomize23]

Because Volkswagen has not had any electrical nightmares in the past right? NAH IM GOOD

[@tysonn4736]

@@oldbloke204 And yet ICE cars burst into flames at 10x the rate that EV's do. Talk about a fire hazard.

[@tysonn4736]

@@oldbloke204 Even among EV's there's variations in how likely they are to catch fire. GM Bolts? Highest likelyhood due to bad batteries from LG Chem and poor implementation by GM. But on the other hand Teslas are not 10x less likely to catch fire than ICE vehicles. They are 20x less likely. That's just plain old data from over 5 million cars on the road and 10 years of tracking this stuff. I mean, you can ignore the data if you want, but it won't change the facts.

[@tysonn4736]

@@oldbloke204 Nah man, I understood you. You said that you were afraid and wouldn't consider buying an EV because of that fear. Some people live that way, but I don't understand it.

[@tysonn4736]

@@oldbloke204 Oh I own a Tesla, but I don't invest in any companies. Your 'argument' consists of you admitting that you ignore the data around EV's being safer than ICE cars. If you're simply going to ignore large data sets, I don't think any anecdotes I might provide will convince you. If actual real world data doesn't convince you, what will? In addition, if you are actually that concerned about battery fires, you should throw out any laptops or smartphones that you own because it's the exact same batteries with the exact same chemistry. And finally, if you're so afraid of battery fires, I would recommend that you simply purchase an EV using LFP batteries instead of NMC batteries. LFP are pretty much indestructible.

[@phillipsweeney7978]

Teslas are a passing fad for the woke - they have now dropped out of the top 10 sales chart in Australia. Utes come in at 1, 2 and 3 with ICE SUVs the rest

[@spsmith45]

Don’t be daft.

[@Eiswueste]

No one knows for absolutely certain how things are gonna turn out (maybe we'll have WWIII tomorrow and priorities shift heavily) and using rather short term data from LITERAL AUSTRALIA is most likely gonna tell you just about nothing.

[@tedchandran]

Jai Hinduja. Potential damage of 20000 dollars if EV batteries need to be changed.

[@MrGMawson2438]

Well done China I mean VW

[@SuperMassman]

☝️🤡,,,Viking doesn't know math: WHAT IS THE, Plus or Minus accuracy rate? Also we're any tests done by independent labs under a variety of stress conditions? The Answer is: "NO" 😔